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Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

• alphabettsy 5y ago
  Base to mid model Subarus from the 2010s would seem to fit. They don’t have many gadgets and have great safety ratings.
• auslegung 5y ago
  I’ve recently decided I want a classic muscle car. 30 years old or older, in good condition, depending on make, model, and miles can be had easily for under $10k
  • H1Supreme 5y ago
    That's a pipe dream. Even the least desirable muscle cars are fetching $25-30k for "good" condition. Anything remotely desirable is going for far more than that. You could probably get an 80's Camaro or something, but that's not really a "muscle car". That term is generally applied to models from the 60's and 70's.
    • auslegung 5y ago
      That price is reasonable according to https://classiccars.com https://classiccars.com. I’m not looking for something extraordinary.
      • pomian 5y ago
        Between 1962-1974 were good years. find a straight 6 (amc, ford, chev) or slant 6 (dodge, plymouth, chrysler). those were good motors, in cars vans trucks, economical, and because not 'musclev usually a lot cheaper. since smaller, then the whole drive train was lighter, softer rides, and so on. also more room under the hood and easy to work on. fun car site.
  • sokoloff 5y ago
    I have a ‘65 Mustang coupe and ‘66 Mustang convertible and daily drove each of them for a while. The sad truth is: they are beautiful and fun, but aren’t actually very good cars by modern car standards. I remedied some of that by adding a modern 5-speed, hydraulic clutch actuator, front disc brakes, dual circuit brakes, relocated upper control arms, traction bars, limited slip diff, a modern alternator, and modern H4 headlights to the convertible (which I bought already non-original). But it’s still a flexible, leaf-sprung, solid rear axle car with poor sealing and weak environmentals. $10K isn’t going to happen and was unlikely 5 years ago, but way off the market for even a good driver-quality car today. (Odometer reading is not a major driver of pricing in the low [driver] end of the market. Many of the cars have a 5-digit odometer of questionable reliability anyway, so a car reading 25000 miles could have 25K, 125K, 225K, or 47K miles. It’s condition-based way more than miles-based.)
    • auslegung 5y ago
      That price is reasonable according to https://classiccars.com https://classiccars.com. I’m not looking for something extraordinary.
• GDC7 5y ago
  The best design I have seen in years is the Polestar 1. I wish they'd ditch the EV thing, put a 300hp motor in the front and find a price point around 40k. They'd sell a whole lot of them
• throw8932894 5y ago
  Lada Niva 4x4. Old school soviet, but modernized car. With airconditioning and some modern gimmicks. Very easy to fix and maintain. Good fuel economy, some versions even pass Euro 5 emission limits. I liked WW2 jeeps and their simplicity, this seems like modern equivalent.
  • haunter 5y ago
    +1 for Lada Niva but not sure where OP is. Hard to get one outside Russia and Europe. Dashboard is still the same analog as in the 80s https://static.lada.ru/images/press-releases/vaz_catalogue_notes-file_-116965-840.jpg https://static.lada.ru/images/press-releases/vaz_catalogue_n... https://www.lada.ru/en/cars/niva-legend https://www.lada.ru/en/cars/niva-legend There seems to be a UK dealer https://lada4x4.co.uk/ https://lada4x4.co.uk/
    • kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
      For the US and Canada: It would be impossible new without buying them for crash tests and I think maybe modifying the engine, and it gets very expensive (I'm not 100% sure but it's a tedious and very difficult and expensive process from what I remember). That's unless they're 25 years old in the US or 15 years old in Canada (eg. buy a really old model).
    • ramesh31 5y ago
      I would kill to be able to purchase a brand new 4x4 manual transmission light SUV in the US. Sadly it no longer exists.
    • richajak 5y ago
      Suzuki Jimny is in similar 4x4 category, it can be an alternative for the rest of the world.
  • semi-extrinsic 5y ago
    Or the base model Dacia Duster.
  • elorant 5y ago
• zhdc1 5y ago
  It depends on what you want. Cars in a lot of countries are required to have some digital features, such as a backup camera. Since you're in the states, you could consider something basic, like a Mazda 2 series or an MX-5. I also imagine that some lower trim Ford, Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, or Chevy models (Chevy Spark?) could be a good option. It get's easier outside of the US. The VW Up is about as analog as you can get - the digital infotainment system is a smart phone app.
• 1970-01-01 5y ago
  First tell us your beef with the status-quo. How do you determine what is a digital feature and what is a digital gimmick? What are you trying to avoid exactly? Are remote diagnostics a gimmick? Is the 20 year old CAN bus a gimmick? Automatic headlights? TPMS? ABS? All of this technology contains properties that identify your vehicle from similar vehicles WHILE making the roads safer.
  • 0des 5y ago
    Excuse the rant, but this comment tickled a sore spot for me. If I want to sing or shout the entire way home without it being stored in 'the cloud' that is my right. If I want to change my own oil or tires, nothing should stop me. So much of this crap is jacking up the price of a basic conveyance and it just adds more headache, more proprietary parts, and more stuff to go wrong. God dammit I just want to ride to the store and back, stop pestering me like I'm some kind of incompetent child asking for unrealistic things. I swear to fucking christ almighty if I have to make a ticket for the Ford Genius Bar to get some basic shit fixed, I might just snap on the nearest nerd. OnStar was a mistake, it all went downhill from there. Fuel Injection bros, you can come get some too.
  • b215826 5y ago
    > All of this technology contains properties that identify your vehicle from similar vehicles WHILE making the roads safer. This is simply not true. Things like touchscreens are cheap gimmicks and the roads do not get any safer by using them in a car [1]. Mazda recently announced its decision [2,3] to replace touchscreens with analog controls as they provide more tactile feedback and I hope more manufacturers follow. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26277965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26277965 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335 [3] https://www.autoblog.com/2020/08/25/2021-mazda-cx-5-updates/ https://www.autoblog.com/2020/08/25/2021-mazda-cx-5-updates/
    • kelnos 5y ago
      Parent didn't say anything about touchscreens adding to safety, though. I think you're attacking something unsaid.
• gkanai 5y ago
  Toyota Land Cruiser (the older ones.) Look for one that has airbags and ABS and nothing else computer-controlled.
• DarthNebo 5y ago
  Wish there were analog-esque(input only) electric 2 & 4 wheelers, which would be repair friendly. As opposed to S/N paired components and digital touch points like screens, which act as single points of failure.
• prirun 5y ago
  I bought a 2018 Acura RDX instead of a new one. Way fewer electronic gadgets and touch screens, and it cost $26K w/33K miles vs $46K new. Even with a 2018, I only made it halfway through the HUGE manual and still don't understand why the doors sometimes lock themselves and other times don't. I agree: cars have way too many features. I loved my 2003 Honda Accord, but some dumbass totaled it when she rear-ended me at an intersection because she wasn't paying attention - probably on her phone. Most people I talk to don't know how to use their car's features.
• desktopninja 5y ago
  Mazda seems to be heading the right direction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335
  • speedgoose 5y ago
    They make a very shitty EV though.
    • mszcz 5y ago
      Do you mean the range? If that's the case then I agree, I don't know what they were thinking. If not then I guess it's a lot different from the 2019 Mazda 6 I own. It's been great. Not what the parent is looking for probably but it has no gimmicks - I find every convenience usable. The adaptive lights, the active cruise, lane assist, automatic transmission, keyless system, seat memory, HUD, 360 cam. Yes, I know these are kind of basics now but still, I come from Mitsubishi Lancer 2010 land - all the gimmicks that car had was ABS ;) Only knit pick I have is you can't turn off the radio, you can only mute it. Had the same feeling when I bought my first iPod and discovered that sleep was it's natural state... Got used to it somehow ;)
      • speedgoose 5y ago
        The whole electric part is shit. The range is low but it would be manageable if the charging speed wasn't so slow. The consumption is very high, the performances very poor. It's a front wheel drive, a lot of space is not available for storage because of the design. And it's expensive.
        • mszcz 5y ago
          All valid points, thanks for your perspective.
  • karaterobot 5y ago
    The right direction, true. Touch screens are cheaper to design and build for, compared to physical controls, but do they benefit the safety or convenience of the driver? I don't think so. However, apart from the touch screen being optional, I think Mazda has a fairly driver-hostile user experience with their controls. I have a 2020 CX-5, and it's still very opinionated about how I should be driving. For example, it will grumble at you if you touch a white or yellow line, or if it thinks you're too close to the car in front of you and not braking hard enough. I'm generally a fairly safe driver: close to thirty years with a license, all but two years of that being city driving, and never had an accident. You wouldn't know it from the way my car yells at me every time I drive it though. Oh, and it asks me to agree to a legal disclaimer every time I start it up! Love being treated like that.
• sodality2 5y ago
  > For those of us who are "old-school" and prefer their cars without fancy digital gimmicks, which cars would you recommend? Old cars. The problem is the lack of modern safety features which really makes me do a double take before considering them. I wish cannibalizing a new car and ripping out all of the useless electronics was common enough for there to be tutorials for some brands
  • porkloin 5y ago
    That's certainly true, but I do feel like there's a sweet spot in the 2005-2010 area where most "critical" safety features (improved airbags, traction control, ABS brakes) are almost certainly present, but none of the modern safety features that fall more into the "augmented sensory" category (merge/blindspot detection, early braking), which I'm happy to compromise on. I drive a 2007 SUV which does everything I need it to do and I'll probably continue to drive similar vintage vehicles until I finally switch to an EV when the charging infrastructure in my area has finally gotten off the ground.
    • calvinmorrison 5y ago
      Panther platform, extremely safe still is a very solid choice. Though most people don't particularly enjoy driving land yachts - a grand marquee is a fantastic choice. Late 90's saab 9000's have TCS, ABS, Dual Air Bag, so your standard set of 2000's features, and are also very safe. Unfortunately there seems to be a lack of good crash test data publically on older (older than 2004) cars.
      • xbar 5y ago
        This, too. Those big Mercurys are just lovely to tool around in. I wish I had space for one.
      • dharmab 5y ago
        If I didn't need a performance oriented car there would be a Lincoln Town Car in my driveway for sure. The mercury and lincoln are the sweet spots since many are available from older, responsible owners.
• thrower123 5y ago
  My 2019 F150 XLT is still mostly analog. It has a screen, because it has to, due to the back-up camera mandate, but there are still physical dials and buttons for all of the radio and climate controls, and it still has the same setup for the shifter and wipers and blinker that have been standard in Ford pickups for two or three decades now. Even so, I had to get FORScan to disable the autolocking feature (very frustrating when you are just going around the yard and it automatically locks the tailgate on you) and tweak a couple other things
  • conductr 5y ago
    Seconding. Ford F-150 and anything that fleets/contractors buy come in very basic feature sets with add one available. This would include sprinter, etc. Most manufacturers have a special section of their site for commercial vehicles.
• HuShifang 5y ago
  Good question. A follow-up: What's the best low(er)-digitalization EV (ideally BEV, but alternatively PHEV)? Something with more tactile/analog UI and a minimum of "entertainment" accessories?
  • inyorgroove 5y ago
    Another option would be the base model VW e-Golf, has traditional gauges but does have a bit more infotainment things. A lot of the controls still remain separate from the touchscreen, climate control for example does not require touchscreen. The problem with VW's lower market EVs will be the range though, not even half the range of a model 3. The ID.4/3 has better range but they ruin it IMO with screens for everything.
  • throwaway894345 5y ago
    PHEV means "Plug-in-hybrid Electric Vehicle" if anyone else was similarly confused.
  • wffurr 5y ago
    My 2017 Chevy Bolt still has some knobs and dials for things. There's also a big touchscreen with a bunch of A/C system controls on it, which is annoying. They're also persistent in that space on the screen, which makes me wonder why even bother having it be on the screen...
  • gambiting 5y ago
    Volkswagen e-Up(or its equivalent Skoda Citigo/Seat Mii) - it's a full EV that still has a fully analog dash, minimal radio and instead of "infotainment" provides a holder for your phone. That's as minimum as it gets.
  • haunter 5y ago
    Volkswagen e-UP/Skoda Citigo Basically the same cars, analog dashboard with knobs, just simple radio w/bluetooth and optional phone connection https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/8-vw-e-up-2020-fd-dashboard_0.jpg https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/8-vw-e-u... https://villanyautosok.hu/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2019-11-28_skoda_citigo_e_iv_hollandia_sajto_15.jpg https://villanyautosok.hu/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2019-11...
• ssijak 5y ago
  Zastava 101 - Stojadin
• speedgoose 5y ago
  Between privacy risks and road safety, I made my choice very easily. I can understand the nostalgia of old cars with very little electronics, a carburator, a starter with a battery, a mechanical dashboard,... But on a daily basis they are dangerous, smelly, expensive, and not that reliable.
  • postalrat 5y ago
    Whats the newest car you can buy with a carburator?
    • mindcrime 5y ago
      Probably something built in the 1980's, if not the 1970's. Fuel-injection was pretty near ubiquitous by around the mid 80's as best as I can remember. I doubt very many, if any, cars were built new with carburetors anytime from 1990 on... Edit: the above refers to the US specifically. As other commentators have pointed out, the situation is different in other regions.
      • olyjohn 5y ago
        Depends on where you live. In the US, there are definitely no more carbureted cars. But overseas is a whole different story. I wanna say like 2017 there was Proton or something like that with a carb on it. From some quick Googling... The Ford Ka in Europe was carbureted (and pushrod!) up until 2000. I believe the VW CitiGolf was carb'd until 2008. Lada's maybe had carbs up until 2014. I think Proton even had one until the mid 2010's also. Interestingly. I thought that here in the US, we got rid of all carb'd motorcycles as well. But Honda is releasing the 2022 Navi, and it's carbureted! Especially weird since they have other 110cc engines that have fuel injection.
      • wiredfool 5y ago
        My 88 Chevy beater truck was the last year of carburetors, as it had an old small block v8 in it.
      • hedora 5y ago
• kgermino 5y ago
  They don't sell them in the US anymore, but I drive a 2019 Honda Fit and it's great. Very versatile (holds four adults, 8ft lumber, 36" doors, etc). The base trim is very tech-lite: bluetooth radio but nothing fancier than that, physically controlled hvac and chair controls, traditional key, basic LTMS (no dedicated chips in the tires, just a calculation based on different angular velocity across the wheels), etc. It's about as tech-lite as a modern car can be. If you want a new car, instead of a used one, I'd try that same pattern: low end, low trim. Honda almost certainly sells a Civic without too many digital gimmicks, other automakers probably have the same. It's a dying breed though, complicated "driver assist" systems are becoming standard or even mandated :(.
  • rsoto 5y ago
    Honda Fit owner here as well, the car is great, but unfortunately it's being discontinued in a lot of places. I think only Japan will still have them, and they even have an EV option.
    • germinalphrase 5y ago
      My Fit has been absolutely great. I’ve learned a lot by working on it, but I do have the say that the plastic engine protector is a travesty. Clips were originally broken during a commercial oil change. Ever since, I’ve just been using self tapping screws to reattach it.
      • rootsudo 5y ago
        Wow, you shouldn't have self tapping screws anywhere near an engine bay. But since you know what they are, I guess their danger is minimized. It is quite OK to run w/o an engine cover, it is a worthless piece of plastic.
        • selykg 5y ago
          They can actually be worse, trapping heat in. But yea, completely non-functional. Remove it if the clips are broken. You aren't missing anything.
• fnord77 5y ago
  I think lower-end cars with the base level infotainment option have the least amount of telematics. Surprised car makers haven't started trying to get ad revenue from displaying ads on cars' touchscreens
  • judge2020 5y ago
    > Surprised car makers haven't started trying to get ad revenue from displaying ads on cars' touchscreens That's that XM is for
  • chakerb 5y ago
    Don't put the idea into their heads!!! Kidding aside, I think customers can argue that such ads can be distracting to the driver.
    • fnord77 5y ago
      Waze does it constantly. "There's a ShitMart just off the next exit, want to stop?"
• bluesupergiant 5y ago
  Base model sporty cars I think would be a great fit here if you're looking for new. The manufacturer understands that those looking for performance typically shy away from expensive gadgets. For example my 2018 brand new ford focus st had a 4" display for the backup cam and that was literally it. Manual transmission, full suite of buttons for controls etc etc Base model mustang ecoboost is similar, you have to pay more to get the larger infotainment option but otherwise everything is manual including the hvac: https://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/models/ecoboost-fastback/ https://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/models/ecoboost-fastback/ I assume the same would be true for the Camaro and Challenger I would stay away from anything luxury. Family Haulers and Base model trucks are typically low-tech as well.
• kgwxd 5y ago
  I'm driving my 2011 Nissan Versa until I die. When my kids reach driving age, they'll get the trashy new car and I'll keep the old one.
• Groxx 5y ago
  What kind of digital gimmicks are you looking to avoid? Touch screens and fancy UI (e.g. vs physical buttons and dials), lane-keeping and dynamic cruise control, automatic emergency braking, drive-by-wire, backup cameras, tire pressure monitors, parking proximity sensors, voice-activated AAA roadside assistance with automatic last-30-second built-in-dashcam upload, etc? Or is it critical that it has a completely physical carburetor and physical connection between wheels and steering or something? Personally I like physical UI controls (touch screens are hard to hit precisely, and don't give feedback when you're not looking) and definitely not baked-in AAA junk, but the rest I'm fine with. Lane-keeping often sucks so I disable it, but... it's disable-able, so meh. I almost never use the main UI for anything (my phone is infinitely more capable), so I don't particularly care how many features it has as long as I don't have to use it at all for most trips. My phone auto-connects, I hit play on Spotify and maybe start a navigation app, and I'm good. I'd probably deeply hate something that required button taps to start the car or shift out of park or something.
• giantg2 5y ago
  Trucks in a basic work truck trim are pretty sparse. Kind of wish I kept my 89 Caprice when the transmission seal went bad about 5 years ago.
• sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  Alfa Romeo Giulietta. They stopped making it in 2000 and it was not sold in US for much longer. But there are lots of them in perfect state in Europe.
  • zhdc1 5y ago
    They stopped making the Giulietta last December. It's being replaced by a small SUV.
    • sam_lowry_ 5y ago
      Typo, yep. Last produced in 2020.
• MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  There's going to come a time in the near future where analogish features are going to be seen as luxury components.
  • Gigachad 5y ago
    Buttons and dials, sure. But no sane person is longing to buy a car without reverse cameras or collision avoidance.
    • AdamN 5y ago
      reverse camera is mandatory by law in the US
    • olyjohn 5y ago
      I must be insane. But I could care less about either of those things.
      • Gigachad 5y ago
        Which is why the government mandates it because drivers should not get to pick the safety features that stop them killing others.
        • olyjohn 5y ago
          I prefer to buy vehicles that I can see out of instead of relying on a potato camera to see behind me.
    • oneorangeday 5y ago
      I could do with out all the beeping from the "collision avoidance"
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
• CapitalistCartr 5y ago
  Ask the dealer if Internet connection is an option, if so, can it be added later, can it be turned on remotely? In many cars today, the answer to all three is yes.
  • can16358p 5y ago
    Just out of curiosity: how can Internet connection be turned on remotely, if the car is, well, not connected to the Internet in the first place?
    • sneak 5y ago
      I am going to guess that you know the answer to this already.
      • cutemonster 5y ago
        Some people don't use cars (subways or bikes instead) and lack strong reasons to stay up to date
    • everly 5y ago
      Because it actually _is_ connected through an OnStar or similar system. You just don’t get the benefit unless you start paying the subscription cost.
• reyjrar 5y ago
  I'm driving a 2017 Jeep Wrangler (JK) with a manual transmission. I don't drive much (less than 4k miles/yr). I can't drive automatic transmissions without losing my mind. My guess is if you can find a car with a standard transmission, you can get it without "smart" features. If you can't drive stick, that's fine. I couldn't drive stick when I bought my first manual transmission. If I can learn, you can learn.
• nowherebeen 5y ago
  I have been looking at the Ineos Grenedier that is coming out early next year. The owner of Ineos wanted a better version of the LandRover Defender before their redesign. No digital features, all buttons. I think they are pricing it around 40-50k. Check out the interior here. https://youtu.be/3wrPT9buKkc?t=575 https://youtu.be/3wrPT9buKkc?t=575
• glial 5y ago
  I got a 2011 Toyota Camry for just this reason. It was the last year before touch screens were introduced. (edit: still has a ton of air bags)
• arielweisberg 5y ago
  Porsche's whole lineup before the latest set of refreshes was nicely physical and traditional. For example the 718 Cayman/Boxster supports Carplay so you get all the good aspects of digital, but climate control, drive modes, and everything else is physical. There are plenty of cars that are/were in this in between state like Mazda's lineup.
• thruflo 5y ago
  I have an entry level 2019 Skoda Citigo. It is just a car, zero driver assist / digital gimmicks. The only digital features are a Bluetooth stereo and a CarPlay screen — but even they have physical buttons.
• runjake 5y ago
  They don't make them for the US anymore. The best you can do is buy a "fleet model" truck or something, but its still going to have a host of electronics and probably a GPS and cellular radio inside. Fleet models are designed to last, as not to anger large-scale fleet customers. Yeah, you can find cars with more knobs and less touch screens, but in most cases, those analog-appearing knobs are just digital input devices to an (eg for Honda since at least 2018) low-end, cheaply-made Android device. If you're sincere, your best bet is to buy a year and model with something that still has plenty of spare parts available (eg. 2000 era Honda, Toyota trucks, etc)
  • silisili 5y ago
    Right on. I have a 2019 work truck. It has electric locks/windows/mirrors, Bluetooth, and cellular modem/onstar. It's definitely not bare bones, but I like that the screen isn't really needed for anything, and has knobs for every control.
  • kgermino 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure my 2019 Honda's HVAC knobs are physically connected to the flaps they control. You can feel/hear the dampers moving with the knobs.
    • runjake 5y ago
      The dampers might be, but the system is still controlled by Android running on a puny OMAP processor in the 2019 Fit. I'd paste the link to the technician's manual, but it's not public, though you can find it on less than ethical places. A fun practice is to pull the fuse on the Android unit and try using your car. It will work, but it's... unpleasant.
      • kgermino 5y ago
        Interesting. I wonder why - it seems like more trouble than it’s worth. The controls aren’t complicated: a button to turn A/C compressor on and off, one for the rear defogger, a mixing valve for temp and a four notch thing for fan speed.
• ntoeunteohu 5y ago
  What you want is a "driver's car". They typically have fewer bells and whistles and provide a more connected driving experience. You're expected to expend effort to pilot the car. There are actually quite a few these days, but I'm partial to Japanese cars, myself. 1) Mazda MX-5 Miata I own one. It's awesome to drive. Has few features and a simple dash. It's quite economical to operate (inexpensive to insure, gets over 35 mpg, very popular so lots of parts availability and lots of aftermarket parts, Mazda reliability and maintenance costs). 2) Subaru BRZ / Toyota 86 Also awesome to drive. This car is a bit more practical than the Miata because of its roof and trunk space. Less economical to operate: it's less fuel efficient and people speed in them so insurance is more expensive. The boxer engine gives it inherently better handling than most vehicles. 3) Honda Civic Type R This is my dream car. 4) Subaru WRX If you need all-wheel drive, this is pretty much it. 5) Nissan 370Z Nissans aren't my cup of tea but they go fast. As for trucks, the only truck that interests me is the Toyota Tacoma, since it still comes with a manual transmission. I wish I could purchase a Toyota Hilux in the US. I also wish I could purchase a Suzuki Jimny here, alas. I'm not at all interested in SUVs, so I can't help you there.
  • 4cao 5y ago
    I vouched for this comment. Perhaps it's not exactly what the question is asking for but is well-formulated (if a bit subjective), and comes from a newly-registered user (welcome to HN!), so I don't think it deserves to be "dead."
    • grzm 5y ago
      Just as the guidelines ask us "If you flag, please don't also comment that you did", just vouch: don't also mention you did. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you think a commenter's comments are dead in error, you can email the mods via the Contact link in the footer so they can take appropriate action.
      • 4cao 5y ago
        The guidelines only say so about flagging, clearly to discourage low-quality comments from getting attention and obscuring more interesting discussion. For this reason, I don't think there is any obvious parallel to vouching that you're trying to draw here. However, perhaps I am wrong. Can you point to a comment by @dang that would substantiate your opinion?
• lordnacho 5y ago
  Build yourself a Caterham. I did this at one point, you'll learn a few things and the thing is totally analogue.
  • garyfirestorm 5y ago
    please tell us more about this? which one did you build, how much did it cost? what did you use it for? how was your experience? maintenance?
    • lordnacho 5y ago
      Can't quite remember the cost of it, maybe $25k at the time? It was the classic Caterham 7 that is maybe the most common kit car, green with a yellow stripe down the middle. Reasonably easy build, but you need a bunch of torque wrenches and a dolly (Is that what they call is? Thing that can lift an engine?). The tools aren't hard to get, but you want to rent the dolly for a day. Nobody can lift the engine block. It's not really that hard to do, just quite time consuming. There's a heck of a lot of parts to put together. Of course you will need a locked garage to put it in, it can't just be thrown together over the course of a weekend. Took maybe a few weekends for three busy people with jobs. Use it for? My colleague bought it and drove around in it. It's quite a basic car by modern standards. Feels like you are touching the road when you're driving it. Also the clutch is unforgiving. Tiny bit too fast and the thing dies, and you're sitting in a busy junction with people laughing at you. Also it's really a fairweather car. There's leather panels that will stop it being flooded but in rain it's quite uncomfortable. It's also not a car that a lot went wrong with. What is there to break on such a thing? But to be fair it also wasn't driven much.
• googlryas 5y ago
  You probably need to buy a used car. Or, buy a new car and remove the fuse for the infotainment system.
• gambiting 5y ago
  VW Up and its Skoda/Seat equivalents. It literally doesn't have a digital dash at all, instead it provides a place to mount your phone if you wish and a very basic radio.
• tehnub 5y ago
  Have at look at Subaru's from like ~2014 or older. IIRC, the safety and reliability are quite good, and I believe they're pretty barebones as far as digitalization goes.
• kevindeasis 5y ago
  What would you use them for, and how much are you willing to spend? Classic cars and italian sport cars don't have digital gimmicks, as well as american muscle. If you really want something without digital gimmicks get a motorcycle. People who really don't want to be tracked have a motorcycle. To answer your question, it depends on what you plan to do with the car and how much you want to spend. Toyota, Honda, Jeep, Porsche, Ford, Ferrari, Chevy. I think you will always need a trip to the dealership and it won't even always be an issue with your infotainment. The exception is if you know how a lot about cars. Also, people don't need your car technology to track you. I know people who lost 10k of camera equipment in their car because they were targeted using other attack vectors. I have tesla at the moment and it has a lot of digital gimmicks. I am thinking of going into porsche or c8 in the next few months. You brought up a really good question about privacy. I'm seeking some wisdom about that too. I know that my location, supercharging, and trips are tracked. Prob even sentry might be watched by a content moderator at tesla. Now, let's say i switch to a porsche or a c8. Wouldn't i still have privacy risks? The risks are, my cellphone, wifi, bluetooth, credit cards, data brokers, cookies, in-store purchases, transactions, or even more sophisticated attack like using people i know as another vector. You can even track people on the blockchain. I think the exception would be something like monero. So, I guess can someone more knowledgable share info about the issues privacy issues with tech gadgets in cars. How big of an issue is it if you are already completely integrated in modern tech society?
  • selykg 5y ago
    Good luck getting a C8. The wait list is long.
    • kevindeasis 5y ago
      Thanks man, yeah I spoke with a dealer. It seems somewhat easier now since people are waiting for the z06. But, still the dealership charging way over the msrp is still a big issue
• sushsjsuauahab 5y ago
  My algorithm is like this: Pick the body style you like/can afford. Remove the engine and all electronics and sell them. Install crate engine and aftermarket electronics to taste.
  • barbarbar 5y ago
    Woosh - this is for pros only. But great for those who can do it.
• csomar 5y ago
  I have a third-generation Mazda 3 and their tech is solid. It's the basics (Music, Radio, Calls, Messages and a modest GPS). It's solid because it's not buggy, responsive and quite simple. I'm yet to have any issues with Bluetooth (which was a hassle on Renault/Fiesta cars). It also has no other privacy invading crap.
• beervirus 5y ago
  Alternatively, what’s a good modern car that’s easy to lobotomize by removing/disabling the cellular modem?
• jefflombardjr 5y ago
  Suzuki Jimny or Toyota Tacoma/Hilux Work Trim
• bunfunton 5y ago
  2019 and below Nissan Frontier. Outstanding trucks. They changed it in 2020 and 2021 I would give it another 15 years to iron out the bugs.
• awwstn 5y ago
  Buy a Toyota from 2000-2010. They run practically forever, they're low maintenance, and they achieve everything you're asking for here regarding modern electronics. My daily driver is a 2000 4Runner, and I love everything about it.
  • pc86 5y ago
    But don't buy one right now, because the market is nuts. 1-2 year old cars with 5-8k miles are selling for the same price or even more than brand new models because of a confluence of the chip shortage and CPO warranties extending the total warranty length.
    • joeyh 5y ago
      I have an 19 year old one, and my mechanic offered to buy it yesterday (after fixing a suspension torn up by essentially offroading in it, third repair it's ever needed in 180k miles), because he needed a car with good gas mileage.
• deleted 5y ago
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• dmead 5y ago
  I have a 2004 buick park ave and i couldn't be happier with it.
  • zubiaur 5y ago
    3.8 series II. That thing will live forever!! For grad school, I got a cousin of it, a 2002 olds. These w body, V6 GMs are so smooth!! So pleasant on the highway! And get 30 mpg? I can’t bring myself to get rid of the thing. In fact I’m a bit obsessive about keeping it nice. It’s so inexpensive to mantón and run, and it is a good, spacious, smooth car. Not luxurious, but still quiet and smooth. Not sporty, yet it passes anything on the highway with ease. Not flashy, but neither am I. Not new, yet still, somehow, reliable. Not techie, yet wit a cellphone mount and a Bluetooth (wired) adapter, I can do just about every thing I want. Like you, I couldn’t be happier with my old boat.
    • dmead 5y ago
      Yea, I was really happy with it until recently. my dog ate part of the interior. it needed a new mass air flow sensor and water pump this year and probably a new traction control unit before the winter gets bad. its supercharged, so the transmission is being run into the ground. it's started to not shift correctly, so that's probably gonna be curtains once that goes. but overall and extremely smooth ride and up until recently had quite the pickup. I'd get another, but they really don't make them like this anymore. I believe the newest column shifter/boat type thing you can still get is a 2013 chevy impala with a nice trim package. After that it's floor shifters and touch screens. very sad.
• kayodelycaon 5y ago
  A lot of Toyota cars still have physical controls for many things.
• dharmab 5y ago
  I bought a car from the early to mid 2000s and retrofit the the head unit and speakers. You can find everything from simple bluetooth/aux cable units with segmented lcd displays to full modern android auto/apple carplay touchscreens. I would recommend a Toyota, Honda or Lincoln Town Car from that era. They're reliable, cheap to maintain/repair/modify, lots of parts availability. Crutchfield.com has excellent guides on retrofitting modern audio systems into these vehicles. The major caveat is safety. While you do get ABS brakes, airbags and seatbelts in this era the crash protection is dismal compared to a modern SUV. You must always drive attentively and defensively- I _never_ text or call using my car audio while driving for this reason.
• a-dub 5y ago
  i think they'll come. flew on a brand new airliner recently, all electronics were removed from the seatback. now it's just a tray and clip for your own phone or tablet, a usb charging port and a 110v ac plug at each seat (along with a media server accessible by wifi) a nice future for all heavy equipment (cars included) would be an open standard for interfacing the heavy equipment with your own control technology, so you can replace and choose the tech yourself, and if the manufacturer stops supporting the software, the hardware remains usable for the remainder of its usually much longer life. i suspect though that this would have to be done via legislation, both to make the carmakers do it and to absolve them of liability in the event that a connected device causes an accident. (the future of machines will involve blameless teams and blameful software with trusted attribution of blame, methinks)
• brickmort 5y ago
  For a reliable pickup truck in the US, Nissan Frontiers have been very trustworthy. Up until this past year, they were known for having a very "old" looking dashboard because the interior had not been updated since the early 2010s. Despite that, it continues to be one of Nissan's most popular vehicles and some would consider it to be the best in their lineup.
• barbarbar 5y ago
  A very good question. I have been asking myself the same. Was thinking af maybe an older Subaru.
• officeplant 5y ago
  I currently drive a 2021 Nissan NV200 Compact Cargovan. It's about as basic of a vehicle you can get. I'm slowly turning it into a miniRV because I like to go camping at times. Works great as a place to sleep when I visit friends and when conventions get back into full swing and I don't want to spend $300+ on a weekend hotel room. Bonus points for the van being actually smaller than my previous 2015 VW Passat when it comes to finding parking spaces. I do miss getting 46mpg, but the van has been averaging 31-33mpg on long interstate trips. There are some downsides. Like the creepiness factor of owning a panel van as a large bearded guy, but most people warm up to it once I explain things. Also the commercial 7% interest on my financing plan. I'm used to financing around 1-3% interest on any car I've bought new, but at least in my state commercial vehicles carry a locked in interest rate. Commercial trucks/vans also have shit for sound insulation so be prepared to do that yourself or pay a local stereo shop to quiet things down. Other than that its hard to even find consumer cars with a manual transmission in my area, let alone a lack of electronic non-sense.
  • csours 5y ago
    Hard to beat a Chevy Express Van when it comes to low tech. In general, look for vehicles that have a really old platform or really old 'redesign'. Eg: Look at model history here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Express I'm not sure of any way to look this up across brands and models? Perhaps a good opportunity for a microsite? In general companies boast about how new their tech is, not how old. Disclosure: I work for GM, this is solely my own opinion. If you don't want OnStar or Satellite Radio, there are ways to disable it pretty easily.
    • yumraj 5y ago
      > If you don't want OnStar or Satellite Radio, there are ways to disable it pretty easily. How? Any pointers?
      • csours 5y ago
        If you want your car's modules to work, you DEFINITELY should not remove fuses. You can look up which fuses you should not remove.
• ablyveiled 5y ago
  https://bollingermotors.com/ https://bollingermotors.com/ If you have some serious money to burn...
  • deleted 5y ago
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• betwixthewires 5y ago
  Buy any sort of car built before 1996 (the year OBDII became required) that you like, and spend some money fixing it up. You'll spend way less than on a new or recently made used car, and it will have virtually no electronics in it. At best, it will have a controller for fuel injectors. Between 1996 and ~mid 00s, you had some of that stuff but really not that much. If you're willing to tolerate an ECM and some jankiness with factory radios controlling the security alarm and nonsense like that then you can avoid all the modern garbage. Unfortunately governments are beginning to mandate some of those gimmicks. Even if a car company wanted to make a car that is just a car, without a rear camera or stop assist it likely wouldn't be able to be imported to anywhere in Europe or anglophone north america.
• SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  Automotive EE here: Personally I’d recommend 2014 mid tier vehicles. Jeep, RAM, and GM trucks. 2014 is a good start for many body styles. 2018 saw regulatory changes and a lot of new body styles. A 2000-2010 is 11-21 years old now and they just don’t last that long. I can tell you there was a massive change in quality right around the time 4G/LTE/WIFI access points were added. It meant we could finish software after shipping in many cases. I’m not sure anything but high-end had OTA in 2014-2016. You aren’t going to get away from CAN busses unless you go back to 2005 or earlier. So get the ones that actually worked pretty well. There was a bell curve of shitty to good to overloaded and shitty again. I’m provided vehicles by my work. But man, if I had to buy one… I’d be in the same boat man. EDIT: Another poster had a good point. The commercial vans are really decontented. I only know Promasters and Sprinters, but yes, those actually do have less electronics. Iirc a recent Promaster city only has one or two data busses, instead of the typical 7-9.
  • madengr 5y ago
    >>>A 2000-2010 is 11-21 years old now and they just don’t last that long. Ha ha, well of course if it's a Jeep, RAM, or GM. A Toyota truck is just being broke in.
• gnopgnip 5y ago
  You basically can't buy a new car in the US like this. They will all have a backup camera and an infotainment screen with controls for the car integrated, and they use the same parts from the rest of the cars in their lineup and collect all the data they can. You could buy an older car like a crown victoria or similar models that were used as fleet vehicles from the same time period. The police models don't have TPMS, cruise control is disabled by default, no LCD screens, no bluetooth, no cellular connectivity, no voice controls, no ignition interlock, no cameras for lane keeping or early crash warning. HVAC is has dedicated controls. It still has an engine computer that controls the timing and fuel air mixture, cooling, turn signals, throttle by wire(after 04), and ABS. To really avoid anything digital you would need a car from the mid 80s or older for one with a solenoid for the turn signals, carburetor for fuel/air. And going back to the 50s to avoid an electronic fuel pump and ignition coils. An air cooled vw beetle for instance. For new cars, a mazda 3 can be a good option. It doesn't use a touch screen and has a wheel/knob instead. The controls are more simplified, few to none of those electronic driving aids on the base models. Volvos stand out as having great physical controls as well, but they will come with all of the electronics. An f150, dodge challenger, grand caravan can be pretty light on the electronics for the lowest trim levels compared to the competition. And all of these are used as fleet vehicles by rental car cos and similar, so there are lots of parts out there
• outworlder 5y ago
  > and prefer their cars without fancy digital gimmicks What's a 'digital gimmick'? Is stability control a gimmick? ABS? What about cruise control? Lane assist? Auto-breaking to avoid collisions? If you are talking about things like touch screens to control basic functions, then it's understandable. Or maybe you want a car without GPS. In general though, moving functions away from hardware makes things more reliable, not less. When was the last time you had to adjust your engine timing? Or disassemble a carburator to figure out issues, rather than plugging in a scanner and having the onboard computer tell you what's wrong.
  • adamrezich 5y ago
    for at least my whole life until 2019, my dad would trade in his truck for a brand-new one every few years. he's the kind of guy who's excited by bells and whistles just for the sake of them, and he appreciated the new doodads with each new model... until 2019. the new truck that year was full of crap he has zero use for, like a 3G wifi hotspot. every few days after his purchase he went back to the dealership with some new problem with some part of the truck. typically this would only happen once every few years or months, but it happened several times in rapid succession over the course of a couple weeks. maybe my dad just got a fantastically unlucky lemon of a truck, but it's undeniable that feature creep increases points of failure.
• yuppie_scum 5y ago
  Dodge or Nissan would be my vote.
• deleted 5y ago
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• jmnicolas 5y ago
  Mercedes EQS! Just kidding ;) Nowadays you won't find anything new that isn't full of electronics unless they sell Lada Niva in the US (might be a bit too bare for you though).
• TYPE_FASTER 5y ago
  The only tech in our 2016 base model Jetta is CarPlay, which can be useful for maps. All the other controls are physical. It does have electric assisted steering, which I'm hoping will be more reliable than the traditional hydraulic power steering which usually requires a replacement at some point. It also gets really good mileage.
• darkr 5y ago
  Low tech/practicality cars on my personal “want” list: * Caterham 7 super sprint * TVR Griffith (or Chimaera) * Ariel Nomad
• 2trill2spill 5y ago
  I love my 2017 Ford Focus RS! It has a touch screen but besides for that there's no lane assist, automatic breaking, or any other driver assists. I also love that it is a manual, however some people may not like that. Also they only made it from 2016 - 2018 and used ones are expensive. But check it out if you want a modern, fast, manual car with minimal digital none sense.
• eschneider 5y ago
  Subaru Crosstrek: If you get it with the (quite nice) 6 speed manual, all the annoying driver aid stuff is deleted. Does come with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, so if you like fancy radio, you can have that. But the drivetrain is pleasantly stick-and-rudder.
  • Kaibeezy 5y ago
    > stick-and-rudder Right? What would Wolfgang Langewiesche drive? Saab 9-5 Aero would be my guess.
  • trcarney 5y ago
    Agreed and even if you get the one with Eyesight, Subaru's driver assist platform, it is easy to turn it off. My girlfriend has one and we turn off lane keep assistance on long trips because it is annoying on some roads. This might be a good option if you want to improve potential resale value.
• rpmisms 5y ago
  Probably the best option is any car with a manual transmission. These generally don't have any cruise control beyond the basic speed-keeping, no lane-keep assist, and generally are base models with less infotainment tech. The fun factor should not be discounted, either.
  • kelnos 5y ago
    As someone who's driven a manual for the last 15 years (agree they are super fun), there are definitely cons to it: * If you live in a place with hills, it will be annoying to drive. (Initially it might feel like it'd be a fun challenge to deal with the hills, but it gets old pretty quickly.) * If you live in a place where you have to deal with frequent stops due to heavy traffic or multiple nearby stop signs, it will be annoying to drive. (No fun challenge here; this is just flat-out annoying.) * If you want or need a friend to drive your car in a pinch (say you've had too much to drink, or you sprained your ankle on a hike), they likely will not know how (depends on where you live; I'm in the US, where most people don't know how). On the flip side, "oh, sorry, it has a manual transmission" is a great no-blame, no-awkward excuse if you don't want to let someone drive your car. * Related, but your significant other, if you have one, might not know how to drive it, and might not be interested in learning (before anyone says anything: no, there's nothing wrong with this attitude; being able to drive stick doesn't give you some sort of moral superiority), and that could create some annoying logistical problems at times. * Less of an issue if you're buying used, but in many markets (again, I mainly know about the US market), manufacturers are dropping the manual transmission options, or are only allowing them on the more expensive trim levels. Even if you're buying used, your available options may be many fewer than if you were looking for an automatic car. Then again, the used car market is nuts right now, and I don't know, but maybe that's making it easier to find a manual car, since they're not usually in high demand. I'm tiptoeing into the market for a new car now, and as much as it will sadden me, I'm almost certainly going to go for an automatic transmission. Finding a manual is requiring more compromises on other features than I want to make, and some of the cons I've listed above have, over time, hit me kinda hard.
    • rpmisms 5y ago
      > If you live in a place with hills, it will be annoying to drive. Hill-climb control, which leaves the brake applied until the clutch is engaged, is a common and wonderful feature now. Saved my butt before. > If you live in a place where you have to deal with frequent stops due to heavy traffic or multiple nearby stop signs, it will be annoying to drive. The Bay Area is obviously not a great place to drive stick. > Related, but your significant other, if you have one, might not know how to drive it I take offense that you'd impune my good taste in such a way. Jokes aside, this is very valid.
• TYPE_FASTER 5y ago
  This Porsche 962C isn't new, but it probably doesn't have too many privacy invasive features: https://vimeo.com/50473835 https://vimeo.com/50473835
• mountainofdeath 5y ago
  Late 90s Camrys, Corollas, Accords and similar. The most advanced electronics are the entertainment system, anti-lock brakes and ignition system. Not a CAN bus in sight.
• 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
  Toyota Camry and Honda Civic from 2006 to 2011 are a very nice sweet spot.
• cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  Annoyingly, I want an electric car without "digitilization". No distracting central touch screen, no "autopilot" nonsense, proper gauges and indicators, tactile feel. A focus on the driving and safety and ergonomics, not on "we don't need an instrument cluster because iPads are cool, people like their phones and buttons are expensive and break"... A Saab 900 with an electric motor. Please make it.
  • jkodumal 5y ago
    Not quite a Saab 900, but perhaps the Bollinger B-1? https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b1/ https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b1/
    • jack_jennings 5y ago
      If only the Bollinger offerings weren't 100k+ MSRP :(
    • seattle_spring 5y ago
      It's not clear at all to me why someone would buy that over the much less expensive and seemingly more capable Rivian R1S.
    • pomian 5y ago
      that's very cool. expensive, but cool.
  • reedciccio 5y ago
    I believe Citroen makes one, but I'm not sure it can be bought... Initially they said they'd sell it in supermarkets https://electrek.co/2021/05/04/citroen-ami-small-electric-car-coming-to-us-subscription-service/amp/ https://electrek.co/2021/05/04/citroen-ami-small-electric-ca...
    • zemvpferreira 5y ago
      And they do! You can buy it at FNAC stores in malls.
• deeblering4 5y ago
  How about a 10 year old Acura or Lexus? Cheap-ish by now (although the used market is inflated currently), comfy and fun to drive, reliable and most of all no huge iPad in the dashboard.
• carabiner 5y ago
  Pre-2015 Tacoma. Doesn't even have climate control. Has the Entune touchscreen stereo, but you can ignore that if you don't listen to music. Everything else is knobs and buttons. But also, keep in mind this is generational. A 2003 Honda Accord has an astonishing amount of digitization relative to a 1980s car. It used to be common for fathers and sons to work on their cars at home for repairs. Not just maintenance, actually fixing things that went wrong. I think behind most nostalgia is a longing for youth.
  • greenie_beans 5y ago
    I wish they still made the Tacomas with that body style
• edpichler 5y ago
  This reminds me some years ago looking for a good high resolution TV without these "embedded OS and smart apps". My plan was to use my Apple TV and regular tv cables. I could not find it, it does not exist.
  • asdff 5y ago
    The answer is buy any tv and never connect it to the internet. I have a "smart" tv. it functions exactly the same as my old dumb tv. The only buttons I use on the remote are power, input, left and right to select the xbox or computer, and volume. Same story as it was in the dumb tv era. the smart tv experience is entirely optional.
    • edpichler 5y ago
      Yes, but I did not want to pay for software or features I would not use. I wanted a dumb cheap TV.
• FlyingSnake 5y ago
  I recently bought Volkswagen e-up! which meets my criteria for a city car: - Zero* pollution. - Big rebate from the government (6k + 3k) - No fancy digital gimmics like touchscreen or digital distractions. I have to plug in my phone to listen to music and the knobs and physical buttons are much more ergonomic to me. - Small and compact build for grocey runs and dropping kids to school - 1/3 cost of charging compared to gasoline. - Free parkings all over the city with chargers. - Simple but superior technology. Driving an ICE is a chore for me now with so much vibrations and noise. - Low maintenance, no engine oils to change and spark plugs/carburetors to tweak. * I am aware that we offset the pollution to power plants, but I still feel this is better compared to ICE pollution. P.S. I live in Berlin, Germany and we have top notch public transport here.
  • mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Nice. Does the charging process report your whereabouts?
• cbdumas 5y ago
  I'm surprised by the tone of the responses here so far. As much as we might or might not like the new digital user interfaces in modern cars, the value of the safety features like automatic braking and collision avoidance is pretty much beyond contest at this point[0]. Before you buy a car without these features, consider that you are probably not as good of a driver as you think you are. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7037779/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7037779/
  • godDLL 5y ago
    It's not about what it does but how it does it. It does it frustratingly annoyingly intrusively and so on.
  • baybal2 5y ago
    Most drivers today in the West don't realise just how much they are reliant on non-disableable electronic stability control on most FWD cars, which quietly entered cars along with ABS.
    • cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      The problem is that a lot of safety features came into the market along with a lot of really terrible cabin UI choices and wiz-bang display electronics that I do not want.
• paulgerhardt 5y ago
  To combat some of the anti-curious stances in this thread are there any new cars with too much digitization? I would love something like a Tesla with a repl that I can program to do donuts; dynamically adjust the ride height from my Apple Watch, or just make the headlights flash in time to my music. Booting Urbit on the infotainment device is a bonus. Basically a modern car for a hacker that still loves technology. Absolutely loved the Rally Motors concept as a kid. The Grenadier looks promising too. But I’m not aware of anything that’s computers + Hoonigan. The more digitization the better.
  • t-writescode 5y ago
    Teslas have way too much digitalization. Anything where you can't flip a lever somewhere on the car to turn on your windshield wipers is a bad taste, to me. (edit: added this sentence) Another area, and I have no idea if Tesla, or any car company, does this: Anything that constantly phones home my speed or braking dynamics or gps or any other telemetry to *anywhere* - or even stores it for more than like an hour - is too much digitalization, to me. I probably lean more toward the "less digitalization" crowd, but I think those are things that can be seen as "too much" by most people.
• oneorangeday 5y ago
  I guess it depends on what you mean by "digital" features. I purchased a 2021 vehicle, its a GM vehicle. Its my first GM product, my last was a Toyota but very basic model, no tech. This has everything and while I enjoyed it at first, a few things started to happen in the vehicle that made me realize that I don't want this vehicle anymore. Primarily the OnStar "feature", I get an ad like chime every so often, asking if I would like to sign up or that this vehicle has OnStar and I should activate it. I get the world we live in and I get that everything has a subscription service attached to it but when that OnStar kicks in while I am talking to someone in the car it creeps me out. Its like when Siri asks how can I help you when you didn't ask for help yet its feels a bit more awkward. Can't explain why except I will be selling the vehicle very soon, just not sure what I will be getting next. Older, like 2000's, low miles and base model. Its why I have not purchased an EV, while they don't all have subscriptions its started to feel like they are all going in that direction. I love tech but it has become a bit overwhelming in vehicles. If I paid for the car I really don't want to have ads while driving the vehicle (old school thinking I guess).
  • hedora 5y ago
    This matches my impressions of an older GMC (except it didn’t nag about OnStar activation). That truck had software bugs that’d sometimes run the battery down over night or cause the entire dashboard and onstar voice response system to freak out. Alarmingly, a powertrain software bug caused it to behave unpredictability in parking lots. The Bolt had the same bug, but it manifested in a more severe way. Search “bolt unexpected acceleration while parking”. Mine was a base model (only knobs; no touchscreens or even medium resolution displays), though it had rudimentary voice control and internet of some sort. I don’t plan to buy a GM again, unless they can make one with zero computers for me, or maybe outsource their software development to a competent firm. The fact that they have a self-driving car division terrifies me.
• screye 5y ago
  I would recommend Mazda vehicles. Their entire lineup offers a small set of effective and minimally intrusive digital/smart features. But, outside of that, they keep it simple. The no-touchscreen is a much safer way to interact with the vehicle, and afaik they have stuck to the traditional 'car' formula. Most of their cars can be purchased in manual and have pretty good driving mechanics for a honda/toyota competitor. The Mazda 3 Hatch, is IMO the best deal in cars right now.
  • rmk 5y ago
    Having driven some of the older models ('10-'12 sedans), I found their transmission/gear shifting not as refined as Hondas from the same period. They do strike a decent balance between digital and physical, though.
  • ics 5y ago
    Owner of a more recent Mazda3 hatchback here. For the last few years I've driven many different makes and models either for work or as rentals on vacation and would agree that they're one of the best if you're looking for a new car. Looks great, feels great, and all of the tech seems carefully considered and balanced. The closest thing to a complaint would be that I do prefer an analogue gauge cluster, but the digital display is tasteful and after driving I rarely even notice that it's on a screen. Before purchasing, I was really looking for a hybrid or PHEV but nothing came close to feeling right in the same way. If Mazda offered exactly the same car that wasn't ICE, I would probably sell and buy again in an instant.
  • joshu 5y ago
    it is also an extremely nice looking car. and mazda reliability seems to be going upward.
  • aidenn0 5y ago
    I love my Mazda 3 hatch. Only thing I wish I could do is turn off blind-spot alerts without turning off rear-cross-traffic. There's enough traffic where I live that former beeps every time I put my signal on before 11pm, while the latter is extremely useful.
  • 5y ago
• dave4270 5y ago
  We have no plans to ever sell the two cars we have. I highly recommend copies if you can find them. My wife has a 2007 4Runner. 150K on the odo and all I've ever needed to change was an alternator and brakes. If you do your own work, nothing on the planet is better for a mechanic than a Toyota. Ours is also the V8 (unicorn-ish) but I don't recommend that unless you need to tow something significant. Mine is a 2014 Subaru BRZ with three pedals. IMHO, it's the best car ever made. Like a shifter kart with airbags.
  • ska 5y ago
    The BRZ/86 is definitely a good fit for right level of tech without a lot of digitization, but not exactly a practical all-rounder for a lot of families. Dollars per unit fun is insanely high though.
• ramesh31 5y ago
  The sweet spot for great cars that can still be worked on is 1998-2005 model years. They had everything that makes modern cars great (ECUs, ABS, airbags, OBD2) without all the insane computerization that is standard today.
• blamestross 5y ago
  Low end Nissan Frontier. Mine doesn't even have power locks or windows!
• jccalhoun 5y ago
  Like many industries, the automobile industry is going through production shortages. So it is a terrible time to buy a car and certainly a terrible time to buy a lower end car because, from what I've heard, automobile makers are dealing with the shortage by only making their more expensive models because there is more profit in them.
• naoru 5y ago
  Got a 2016 Kia Rio QB hatchback with a 1.6L G4FC engine this spring as my first car. It had a bit more than 30k km on it, very slightly dinged (I already had bonked it twice though). Reliable as a brick. Drives like one too. But boy is it stupidly simple — no bluetooth even, chucked in a USB receiver and called it a day. No touchscreens, no fancy driver assist, no cameras, no nothing. Just an AC and motorized windows. Paid around $10k for it. Worth every rouble. Korean cars are very popular here in Moscow. Basically every taxi is either Kia or Hyundai, Toyotas are less common. Outside of major cities Renault (Dacia) and Ladas are prevalent because they're even cheaper. Want a dumb car? Come to Russia. We have some.
• passer_byer 5y ago
  A Volvo 240 DL, model years 2000 to about 2010. Completely reliable daily driver, safe, comfortable sedan that can goo 500,000 miles with reasonable care. I had three of them over the years. Today, my daily driver is a 2017 Toyota 4Runner after I put 250,000k miles on a 2008 Toyota Highlander. These can go 500,000 miles with reasonable maintenance. I also buy used so others take the depreciation hit.
• jacquesm 5y ago
  Nothing new. Buy something a decade and a half old or even two, have it rebuilt to spec and enjoy a computer free and reliable ride that if you pick the right car will likely appreciate in value for a while. My 'daily driver' (or at least, before I got my e-bike it was my daily driver) is 24, drives like it was made last week and will probably outlast me. It is not the most fuel economic car but it gets me where I need to go and is quite reliable.
• kgc 5y ago
  Subaru BRZ. https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/brz/index.html https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/brz/index.html
• markvdb 5y ago
  I have a similar question for ebikes. I'm looking for a 45 km/h ebike for use in the EU. That means type certification required. I also need a comfortable real life 140km range at high speeds. What I would love to see is: - throttle - battery status indicator leds (or similar low tech battery status feedback) - pedal sensor - battery management system - charger - reliable motor What I would not like to see is: - gps - led display - smart lock - builtin cameras - ... Suggestions welcome!
• esalman 5y ago
  Toyota 4runner might interest you. They have a old-school SUV philosophy with the standard modern safety features.
• softwaredoug 5y ago
  People seem to always want to buy my 90s Miata for these reasons. Parts are still affordable and it's reliable...
• grvdrm 5y ago
  I'll break this into two components: 1. Is there a button for the thing I'm trying to do? 2. Does the button in (1) do what I expect it to do? (2) drives me crazy. And I'm sure it's both a blessing and a curse as cars continue to pack tech under their hoods/into their dashes. The climate system "Auto" function is my favorite nuisance. It used to be that you had temperate and fan speed and they operated rather intuitively. Now "Auto" does something. I'm not quite sure what. Is it reading my body temperature? Interior temperature? Exterior temperature? How does it determine fan speed? Passengers? Even in a car with tech, I revert to barbaric adjustments: open windows when it's nice out (NYC metro area), seat heaters when it's cold (Northeast standards), and the Max A/C when the humidity is unbearable. You know what's awesome? All of those things have, in my cars at least, buttons! I know what they do! /End Rant
  • lostmsu 5y ago
    On my Honda auto seems perfect for me. It looks like it keeps internal temperature and only turns on fan to ventilate, heat, or cool.
• LazarWolf_ 5y ago
  I bought a 2018 Ford Focus RS (comes with a manual transmission). Love it. I have Apple CarPlay, but no other gimmicks. I didn’t know how to drive a stick before I purchased this car; but had a strong desire to vote with my wallet stemming from the same emotions. I wanted less “technology” in my car.
• winrid 5y ago
  I have a 2015 Chevy Colorado WT trim. I got it for this reason, pretty much the simplest "modern" car you can get. No remote locking, stick shift, just a radio / aux input. Has reverse camera though, and hill start assist. RWD, four cylinder (but enough power with the 4.10 rear end gearing). And good safety ratings. It's quite weird in that it has good torque at low RPM, but revs to 7k RPM. Unusual for a truck, but fun. I use it for towing a 4k lb trailer and the once a week run to the store. Nothing broke in five years so far. I think they recently dropped the stick shift option but there are plenty on the market. Usually around $20k. I average 20mpg. 25 on highway. 20 towing. Downsides: I have the extended cab for the longer bed, so rear seats are tiny.
• madduci 5y ago
  Alfa Romeo Cars are usually have minimal electronic onboard. Probably only the Stelvio has some more
• Helmut10001 5y ago
  In 2014, we bought a brand new Mitsubishi Space Star. EUR 6990. The only thing electrical are both front windows. No A/C, no radio, no remote key or central key unlock. It did not have a single repair in 7 years. It is the best car I ever owned.
  • mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Looks like an alternative name to the Mirage.
    • Helmut10001 5y ago
      You are right, Wikipedia[1] says "The sixth generation Mitsubishi Mirage, released in 2012, is rebadged as the Mitsubishi Space Star in the European markets". Did not know this. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Mirage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Mirage