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EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

• selfhoster11 5y ago
  Good. We need this. The USB-C connector is capable of providing laptop-grade power supply, and Apple is the only straggler that I know of.
  • Aaargh20318 5y ago
    I think it’s a horrible idea. It means moving to a future, better standard (let’s say, USB-D) is neigh impossible as it would require a change to an EU directive (that is: 27 countries need to agree on it). Just getting this into law has already been in the works for years and years, if the EU had worked a bit faster we would have been stuck with micro USB-B, which would have been unfortunate.
    • foepys 5y ago
      This could've all been avoided if all manufacturers just followed the previous EU guideline (explicitly not a law) and agreed on a connector. It more or less said "we don't care what you choose, just choose one". But Apple didn't want to listen and now the EU commission is sick of it and introduces a law. It's the industry's own damn fault that it didn't take the hand that reached out to it.
    • vegardx 5y ago
      You mean that Aprils fools joke USB-D?
    • selfhoster11 5y ago
      We're stuck with USB A on desktops since the late 90s. It hasn't harmed us. The connector is non-reversible, but it's robust with many, many disconnect-connect cycles and can support higher speeds with USB 3.2. I still use USB chargers made 10 years ago. They work fine. I think it's fine to be stuck on a "good enough" standard, if this results in less e-waste and less need to upgrade all accessories simply because the dominant connection port changed. If we wanted to have the standard update itself every 15 years or so, we can have a body dedicated to selecting, or creating, such a standard. We don't write automotive standards directly into our laws, so we don't have to the same with charging port technology either. As the maxim goes, "every problem of computer science can be solved with another layer of indirection, except for having too many layers of indirection".
      • jsudi 5y ago
        > I think it's fine to be stuck on a "good enough" standard, if this results in less e-waste and less need to upgrade all accessories simply because the dominant connection port changed. That’s your opinion. I disagree and I certainly don’t want to see it written into law.
        • cute_boi 5y ago
          but without writing in law apple will never care about environment right? They are getting money from each connector so why would they? Is it possible to solve such issue without law? What solution do you propose? If you have solution let us know?
          • ben_w 5y ago
            I don’t think that’s entirely fair to Apple: they are trying to not include a charger at all in the first place (just the cable), which does a lot more for the environment than including a charger which you can use with anything as well as forcing the cable to be useful for more than one device.
            • foepys 5y ago
              The law introduced by the EU commission also addresses this. They don't want chargers to be included by default anymore exactly because of this.
              • ben_w 5y ago
                Good, but not relevant to me defending Apple in this instance; Apple are even doing this (or at least tried to do this) where there not only wasn’t a legal requirement to do so, but a legal prohibition against doing so: https://www.engadget.com/apple-brazil-fine-over-iphone-12-charger-171754262.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALgykKyxhZmrcgFdnLEpSyKHeOzq4mkf5el5EFXN27GzYJQyxYw4r-mstsqeTsOgsRyCRGgd0G2Ppz_CBxSM1slmkeZvqUpkQO7ZaYJvh7ZoWM2DUOFnwiDrWDEwVbuw__sM4azDSk7WgsiYHHpANKx_QhwRh9x1XDehi5rGdtnI https://www.engadget.com/apple-brazil-fine-over-iphone-12-ch...
    • Deukhoofd 5y ago
      Depends on the legislation, so lets wait on that.
    • boudin 5y ago
      What you say is not necessarily true, but I couldn't find anything that talks about how the connector that is mandated is chosen. It will be interesting to know how the connector is agreed upon and by whom.
    • sfg 5y ago
      Yeah. Plus, this is such a minor issue. You get a device and the charger for it and that is the end of it. If you buy multiple devices that you carry around with incompatible chargers then you carry (assuming you even need to charge on the road) a couple of cables (or one with multiple connectors). It's about as much of a none issue as you will ever get.
      • iSnow 5y ago
        It wasn't a non-issue till the EU stepped in. Every manufacturer had their own plug and some (eg. Nokia) even had more than one, of course they were incompatible. I'm grateful that the EU stepped up here. I feel for Apple's hurt pride here that they should adopt something they didn't invent, but since we are a mixed Android/Apple household, getting rid of Lightning will be nice.
        • sfg 5y ago
          It was always a non-issue. I live in a mixed Apple and Android house and its a non-issue. If it was an issue, we'd just consolidate our house, but we don't, because -- like you -- we don't find it enough of an issue to care.
          • Kbelicius 5y ago
            Do you make sure that your cables are properly disposed? How do you dispose of them?
        • selfhoster11 5y ago
          Precisely. Nokia was blessedly standardised, in fact, because you only ever had 2 charging ports so you could mix and match. Most other manufacturers were a mess with proprietary connectors that weren't barrel jacks.
      • selfhoster11 5y ago
        This is not a minor issue. Sony had a different charger model (with a different voltage down to tens of volts, or with a different connector) for nearly every single device released. Want more than one power brick (one for the office and one for the home/vacation home)? Spend a lot of money for the convenience, or carry 2 kilos of chargers wherever you go. Some devices eschewed power supplies altogether and used cradles. Lose the cradle and the device is unusable. Carry the cradle, and it becomes an extra 500g in your everyday carry. If you were lucky, your device supported a barrel jack or another generic connector, but you had to carry around a universal power supply with adjustable voltage and polarity because they all used different configurations. Get something wrong, and your expensive device is fried. I remember the early 2000s and the pre-USB charger era. I don't remember it fondly, because it was frankly stupid. Even the worst universal standard is better than no standard at all. And I say this having lived through the era of Micro USB dominance, an era that has killed the charging ports of many of my phones.
    • adrianN 5y ago
      The way it usually works with industry standards is that if the industry agrees that a different connector would be superior, their lobbyists are highly effective at changing the legislation.
    • avianlyric 5y ago
      We don't know the language to the legislation yet, so I think it's worth withhold judgment for now. Based on other recent legislation from the EU that I've had to work closely with, I would say the EU legislators are very aware of the pitfalls that come with writing a specific technology into law. They seem to deal with this by writing an initial recommendation, or providing a few concrete examples of how to conform int to the law. But hand off the longer term management to some sort of agency or regulator that already exists, and instructs them to work directly with industry to fine tune the technical aspects. Taking this approach create a natural escape hatch for new standards being introduced without new law being written. It'll still create a natural dampener on innovation in specific area, but it avoid completely stifling it. Also on quick FYI, USB-B has never been used on a modern mobile phone. The port is bigger than most phones! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USB-3.0-Stecker_(Typ_B).jpg#/media/File:USB-3.0-Stecker_(Typ_B).jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USB-3.0-Stecker_(Typ...
      • Aissen 5y ago
        The comment now says "micro USB-B", which is in fact the previous de-facto standard before the type C family.
    • seszett 5y ago
      > 27 countries need to agree on it No, this has to be voted by the parliament like any law, not approved by each member. > getting this into law has already been in the works for years and years The goal was to not require a law and make manufacturers agree to a standard without legislation, because that makes it easier to evolve. Apple is the only one that wouldn't agree to that, so that means it has to become a law apparently, otherwise they won't do anything. If a new standard appears, I expect the USB-IF to notify the EU while they're working on it so that legislation can evolve in time. The EU parliament is very quick to pass new laws when necessary.
      • M2Ys4U 5y ago
        >No, this has to be voted by the parliament like any law, not approved by each member. Almost all EU legislation needs the approval of the Council of the European Union - which comprises representatives from all 27 member states. The Ordinary Legislative Procedure goes Commission -> Parliament -> Council -> Adoption. If the Council and Parliament don't immediately agree then there's a step in there for negotiation between all three institutions. Aaargh20318 is probably wrong that all 27 need to agree, though, most things are decided in Council on the basis of Qualified Majority Voting which does not need all 27 to agree.
    • Reason077 5y ago
      USB C's physical form is likely to remain stable for years to come. There seems to be plenty of room to evolve the cables and device capabilities while retaining physical backwards compatibility. I mean, USB 4 can already do up to 40 Gbps, and upcoming versions of the standard are said to be going to 80 Gbps[1] [1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/16858/intel-executive-posts-thunderbolt-5-photo-80-gbps-and-pam3-then-deletes-it https://www.anandtech.com/show/16858/intel-executive-posts-t...
  • mclightning 5y ago
    I am surprised we are not seeing more positive sentiment for this among HN members. I had to scroll quite a bit to find this comment. In the other hand, HN is US-dominated and they don't like regulations over there. This is absolutely a good regulation, proven by previous similar regulations. I have about a kg of waste cables laying around. We need to start acting smart about how we deal with plastics.
• bencollier49 5y ago
  Wasn't this a news item ten years ago? Ah, yes - confirmed in the article!
  • Arnt 5y ago
    It was, and quite a success, and probably encouraged the current step. It changed a problem from "find the right charger" to "will this charger charge this phone quickly or slowly?" with hardly any problems. Someone will post a link to that Google engineer who tested cables, and there was a manufacturer who supplied non-USB power via a USB plug (can't remember which voltage but it wasn't 5V1A), but on the whole, a great improvement over the old state.
    • gambiting 5y ago
      If only USB-C PD was less of a mess...... Somehow my 25W USB-PD original genuine Samsung charger doesn't charge my 2021 iPad Pro which normally uses a 20W USB-C charger...it just makes no sense.
      • Arnt 5y ago
        Sure. I too have a device that "won't" charge from a particular charger. The device and that charger negotiate some ridiculously low effect, and the device turns on its screen while charging. The net effect is awfully close to zero, sometimes it's negative. But compare it to the mess phone chargers were in 2005.
• 1_player 5y ago
  Good, though in practice it's not the charger the problem, I use the same USB plug everywhere, it's Apple and their cable. Right now I always need with me a micro USB cable, an USB-C one, and Lightning, because Apple thinks different™. What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones?
  • mschuster91 5y ago
    > What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones? People having a lot of legacy MFi stuff. Car docks and stereo systems in particular are expensive to replace.
    • foepys 5y ago
      They didn't see this as a problem when they introduced lightning and USB-C on their macBooks and high-end iPads, though. Instead you were supposed to buy more future electronic waste in form of dongles.
      • avianlyric 5y ago
        I think the iPad pro etc lives in a different category. They're all high end devices that are bought by people who either like tech, or use it for work. People who want the latest everything, and are happy to change things like cables to make it happen. The iPhone at this point is just a phone. I suspect most people own them because their good tools for everyday life. Based on an observation of my parents, their friends, and parents of my partner, I would say that most of them don't give a rat-arse about the port on the bottom. They just want the phone to work with the cables they already have. For many of these people an iPhone and iPad Air will be the only computers they own. I appreciate that my point is a little undermined by the new iPad Air, but I suspect that iPhone will go to wireless only charging, something the iPad can't do, and Apple don't want to go through two transitions in less than 5 years.
      • mschuster91 5y ago
        USB-C to USB-A dongles were and are cheap, and USB-C/TB on MacBooks enabled one-cable docking solutions for the first time on the MBP platform so people actually welcomed that.
• dtech 5y ago
  This is non-news, this has already been the case since 2009 [1]. It mandates micro USB, EU iPhones come with an adapter. I'm not sure what the current status is, USB-C phones don't come with an adapter. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply
  • gopaz 5y ago
    > EU iPhones come with an adapter. Source? Since 2009 I probably had 8 iPhones or so, never seen or heard about any adapter
    • boudin 5y ago
      I don't know if it's what the author of this comment meant, but iphone chargers have an USB plug and the charging cable is a USB - Lightning cable. But it's the case everywhere no?
    • dtech 5y ago
      It might differ per country. In NL it has been the case. The latest comes with an USB-C -> lightning cable [1]. I think the micro-USB might have been around iPhone 7 era. [1] https://www.apple.com/nl/iphone-13-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/nl/iphone-13-pro/specs/
  • Aaargh20318 5y ago
    That’s a different law, it requires a USB connection on the side of the charger. This would require a USB connector on the side of the phone.
  • 88 5y ago
    I don’t think Apple provided an adapter, they merely “offered” one.
• Reason077 5y ago
  I can’t wait for an iPhone with a USB C port, and I’ll buy it immediately. There’s nothing technically wrong with Lightning, but it’s a monumental pain to have to carry around 2 sets of incompatible cables because of it!
  • Aaargh20318 5y ago
    I think it’s more likely that Apple will drop the port completely and move to a wireless-charger only approach.
    • Reason077 5y ago
      That doesn’t really solve the problem, though. In fact it makes it worse if you have to curry around a wireless charger that is more bulky than the cable it replaces!
      • Aaargh20318 5y ago
        The proposed law is not about convenience for the user but about reducing waste. Also, you don’t need to carry around a wireless charger, you leave the charger at home and charge your phone overnight.
        • chairmanwow1 5y ago
          As a constant traveler, I consistently need to charge up while on flights, airports, random coffee shops, bars etc
        • Reason077 5y ago
          That's the theory with all charging, isn't it? But I'm talking about while travelling or all those unexpected circumstances when you find yourself needing a charge when you're not at home. One night recently, I managed to get locked out of my flat, after midnight, with nothing but my phone in my pocket. On about 15% charge! Thankfully that was enough to book a hotel and buy a lightning cable (and a toothbrush) at a 24-hour convenience store using Apple Pay, enabling me to recharge the phone on the hotel's USB charging sockets. If I'd needed to find a wireless charger I would have been totally screwed! I suppose wireless chargers will become similarly ubiquitous if they're the only way to charge phones. If you can expect to find wireless charging in every hotel room and every train seat then it's not a problem. But I suspect that's a long way off.
• noptd 5y ago
  Sounds reasonable. I wonder whether Apple would comply to a USB-based standard or move directly to only supporting wireless charging. Thinner iPhones anyone?
• ramboldio 5y ago
  Not sure, whether legislating a particular standard might backfire in the long-term? I imagine that there was a time when it made sense to force everybody to have a VGA port..
  • lagadu 5y ago
    What you do to avoid that is legislate it for a limited time (lets say ~5-10 years) and then not renew it. This forces everyone to move to the standard in the medium term and doesn't impose long-term restrictions to new, better formats coming along.
• mytailorisrich 5y ago
  That's marginally useful, but if the aim is indeed to reduce waste then the key measure would be to stop bundling chargers with phones, as also suggested by the article. What creates waste is that every time people buy a new phone they get a new charger, which they don't need in 99% of cases because they already have a box full of them.
  • gostsamo 5y ago
    Selling the charger separated from the device is also part of the proposal.
• connor-brooks 5y ago
  An average consumer probably gets a new phone every 1-2 years. That means 50-100g of junk plastic every year per person. This seems very small compared to the amount of non-recyclable plastic I get every time I go to the supermarket (Fruit and veg in plastic wrapping). Are USB cables very resource heavy to make? Is there something that makes them especially bad when compared to other waste?
  • stjohnswarts 5y ago
    I would say 3-4 years, at least here in the USA
  • oaiey 5y ago
    Oh they targeted plastic bags already. The food industry will get their blast, but their problem is harder to solve than chargers.
    • squiggleblaz 5y ago
      Is this something yet to come into law? I find it very hard to buy the vegetables I want at German supermarkets because they so often come wrapped in plastic sets of three. Even bananas have a substantial amount of sticky tape around them.
      • qayxc 5y ago
        Is it always plastic, though? Might be cellophane instead, which is not plastic and especially suited for packaging food.
      • oaiey 5y ago
        Plastic shopping bags are regulated. The supermarket packaging madness is ripe for regulation.
  • wasmitnetzen 5y ago
    The EU very recently banned a lot of single-use plastics[1], so it's not like they're just targeting a random small problem here. [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/environment/topics/plastics/single-use-plastics_en https://ec.europa.eu/environment/topics/plastics/single-use-...
• jsudi 5y ago
  If this was done years ago we’d be stuck using micro or even mini usb. I shudder at the thought. Lightning was superior to those two. Under this regulation, Lightning and USB-C couldn’t have happened.
  • iSnow 5y ago
    That's why the EU back then banged the heads of the manufacturers together to force them to come up with a common standard, instead of picking one and forcing it down their throat.
    • Aerroon 5y ago
      Is that why the standard that USB-C cables use is such a ridiculous mess? >Even the seemingly most basic function of USB-C — powering devices — continues to be a mess of compatibility issues, conflicting proprietary standards, and a general lack of consumer information to guide purchasing decisions. https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/ https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/
      • mclightning 5y ago
        Worst examples of USB-C in that list is better than USB2.0... USB-C is not lacking. You simply get what you paid for. I am using USB-C to charge my laptop, phone, earbuds. It's been amazing having just 1 single cable dangling on my desk, instead of several. This alone has been enough positive to justify the move over to USB-C.
        • nottorp 5y ago
          How much time did you spend on researching what USB-C cable you should buy? :) Also, does it have data? At 2.0 speeds? At 3.1 speeds?
          • mclightning 5y ago
            I know what I should expect if I am paying a cable $5 vs $40. Just because tip of the cable is looking like USB-C, you shouldn't expect it to support HDMI etc. Most people are not looking for full set of USB-C features. Most people are just looking to charge their device. I don't remember last time I wired up my phone to my computer for any data transfer, and I am a nerd who reads HN. Think about the average folk. If we go further, a big chunk of people, don't even use anything like a file manager. In short, biggest reason we have cables around these days is; To Charge Up. That's it.
• enlyth 5y ago
  Maybe unpopular opinion but I like lightning more than USB-C, it makes more sense to me to have the connective parts of the cable on the outside of it, which gets rid of that little "notch" on the inside of USB-C ports which just seems like it can get bent at any time.
  • connor-brooks 5y ago
    I also prefer Lightning. The central pin of USB-C being in the device's port rather than the charger seems like a bad idea to me. Lightning is the opposite.
    • MayeulC 5y ago
      I think it helps against dust getting stuck inside though. Also, more ports on USB-C make for better "alternate mode" functionality, where some data lanes are re-purposed (with an analog mux) for another use, like displayport, or audio DAC.
  • Philip-J-Fry 5y ago
    Normal USB A ports have that little notch on the inside too. For all the years I've lived on this planet I've never broken a USB port. USB C is perfectly fine. The worst part of lightning is how flimsy it feels once it's been worn in. Plus having the connectors inside with something to line it up seems like a battle hardened design choice now. Unless you're an idiot, you're not gonna break anything.
    • proto-n 5y ago
      Fwiw I broke I think more then 10 micro usb cables / ports throughout the time when they were everywhere, it was kind of prone to breaking. Never managed to break a regular usb, mini usb or usb c though. So I don't think proneness to breaking is inherent to this design, but the opposite isn't true either.
      • ptman 5y ago
• anothernewdude 5y ago
  Yeah, it's called microusb.
• gorgoiler 5y ago
  Hey EU! I already have a common charger. In fact I have three! They are all USB-C Power Delivery devices: small lightweight charger, large powerful charger, and a battery pack. I also have special cables for different devices, but it’s hardly onerous. Please go back and rewrite your cookie law to be implemented in HTTP / some wire protocol so that I can use browser whitelisting. Ambivalence, gorgoiler
• ulzeraj 5y ago
  Might sound like a good idea but might also leave us stuck with usb-c for decades.
  • stjohnswarts 5y ago
    We are not going to be stuck with usb c for decades. Good grief. If a significantly better technology comes along that requires a new connector I am sure new legislation can make way for it. That said I don't support laws like this. I don't like laws that limit possibilities for consumers. I prefer laws that expand them like right-to-repair and network neutrality when it comes to tech.
• clement_b 5y ago
  Would it be possible for EU to select a standard, and request each member state to tax non-standard products sold at an increasing YOY rate. This would give some time to Apple to figure it out while putting the words in action now without punishing consumers from day one. Also, making some money on the back of a GAFA.
  • johannes1234321 5y ago
    There is a time to figure it out. The whole thing is discussed for years. Apple must have seen it coming. In addition the legaslative process isn't finished, yet. And then the final legislative measure will have a grace period and only affect new products.
• nso95 5y ago
  Let's hope no advancements in phone chargers come around
• squarefoot 5y ago
  Great news but needs serious enforcement and vigilance against various tricks that manufacturers might employ to "encourage" users to buy their own charger. Example: if a phone sets a lower charging current when it is not connected to the same-brand charger, no matter if that charger can source the necessary current, that would trick the user in believing the original charger is better by shorting the charging time, so the user would be lured into buying one, and we could end up in a even worse situation in which for most people a product and its charger would come in two packages and two shipments.
• sarvasana 5y ago
  Now also force them to allow us to install our own OS.
• jonplackett 5y ago
  It seems to me thr EU is very good at making plans without considering second and 3rd order consequences. This seems like a good idea on the surface but look at the shit-show that the cookie/data regs have created on the web today. I hope whatever law they write is encompassing enough that we don’t get the equivalent of horrible workarounds - maybe apple just stops having a cable and we all have to buy MagSafe now…..
  • jonplackett 5y ago
    Thanks for the downvotes. I’ll be checking back in with an ‘I told you so’ in about 10 years
• srg0 5y ago
  You may find links to EU Commission studies on this page, downloadable as PDFs, distributed under CC-BY license. https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/red-directive/common-charger_nn https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/r... 1. Impact assessment study: common chargers of portable devices (December 2019) PDF: https://op.europa.eu/o/opportal-service/download-handler?identifier=c6fadfea-4641-11ea-b81b-01aa75ed71a1&format=pdf&language=en&productionSystem=cellar&part= https://op.europa.eu/o/opportal-service/download-handler?ide... 2. Impact assessment study: unbundling of chargers for mobile phones and similar devices (June 2021) - to identify different regulatory and non-regulatory policy options to achieve unbundling and address the technical pre-conditions and consequences of unbundling PDF: https://op.europa.eu/o/opportal-service/download-handler?identifier=90e9a07d-1054-11ec-9151-01aa75ed71a1&format=pdf&language=en&productionSystem=cellar&part= https://op.europa.eu/o/opportal-service/download-handler?ide... 3. Technical supporting study: wireless charging technologies used for mobile phones and similar devices (April 2021) - to analyse and update on the status of wireless charging technologies PDF: https://op.europa.eu/o/opportal-service/download-handler?identifier=c6fadfea-4641-11ea-b81b-01aa75ed71a1&format=pdf&language=en&productionSystem=cellar&part= https://op.europa.eu/o/opportal-service/download-handler?ide...
• foxfluff 5y ago
  I feel like there's bigger fish to fry. There's more and more li-ion appliances and tools, most with proprietary chargers (think all the power tools), and in many cases no user replaceable battery packs (e.g. vacuum cleaners). It really sucks that I need a new charger + battery if I want to use some bosch or dewalt tool instead of a ryobi or whatever I happen to have. And I can't use these tools' batteries to power USB devices.. I'm sure all these electric vacuum cleaners are a big lump of e-waste when the battery inevitably dies. Phones have standardized pretty well. Apple is an outlier but I don't think that's a huge deal, and the cost of forcing them (and their users) to switch may be worse than the status quo.
  • rand49an 5y ago
    USB-C can supply up to 100W, so there's no reason it can't be used for the bulk of those use cases too.
    • foepys 5y ago
      USB-C 2.1 will be able to carry 240W with supported cables.
  • foota 5y ago
    I think that's a lot harder problem, since there's a wide variety of needs that general batteries will have, vs smartphone chargers (and not even smartphone batteries)
    • foxfluff 5y ago
      There are some hard parts (e.g. I don't expect mechanical compatibility across appliances anytime soon) and easy parts (charging). There's really nothing fancy about the chargers that all the appliances use. USB PD isn't designed for smartphone batteries, it can power lots of things, including laptops, monitors, soldering irons, large power banks. Appliances' batteries are hardly any different from a power bank. There is no "battery smarts" in the charger itself, it just gives juice to a charge controller located by the battery. I don't know if it scales enough to be usable for 48V appliances, but a lot of stuff could be powered by a common interface (and, conversely, most large batteries could easily double as a power bank, and they indeed do if you just attach the right electronics downstream of it; having this built-in would be an interesting step).
• fmajid 5y ago
  The EU has been talking about this for a decade or more. Time to act.
• Aerroon 5y ago
  Have they figured out how a mere mortal can tell what a USB cable can do without plugging it in? Because USB might be one of the most confusing standards there is. And I don't believe for a second that making all USB-C cables capable of everything in the standard isn't massively wasteful itself. If the intent is to cut down on waste then that would miss the mark.
  • southerntofu 5y ago
    I'm also curious about this. 99% of Ethernet cables i've come across had "CAT5e" (or another cat) spelled out on the cable's coat, and that proved useful. With USB, on the other hand...
• Asmod4n 5y ago
  There are two ways how to handle this. 1) legislation forces a standard upon every device maker. Because technology advances all the time legislation will have to change the port every ~10 years. This might happen or not, potentially forcing device makers into building obsolete tech into their devices. 2) make a law which forces device makers to hold regular meetings/whatever to decide upon themselves which port they want to use. The port that gets 51% or more of the votes becomes the standard. If two consecutive rounds of voting can’t find a standard legislation will decide the standard.
  • vasco 5y ago
    I can think of many more ways, one of which being to just let companies decide which port to use without enforced coordination. I think it's way more likely for new port technology to advance if a OEM can immediately put it in their next product to validate it in the market than waiting for coordination. If someone designs a new port that is way better, how will they convince other manufacturers at the regular meeting that this should be the new one if it's not even tested in the market? What you're proposing are two "design by committee" ways of handling this and making it look like there's no other way to handle this or that the status quo isn't better than the proposed changes.
    • Asmod4n 5y ago
      I can think of other ways too, but the EU wants to regulate this part of the economy and i believe they will take way too much time to adopt new standards or simply ignore new ones. Making USB-C the port for decades and stopping any advance in technology here.
  • acdha 5y ago
    Your second scenario is basically what happened: the EU MOU gave the industry a decade, they came up with USB C in 2014, and here we are with most of the industry using USB C and legislation pushing Apple to adopt it.
• yawaworht1978 5y ago
  Does this include apple? And I hope they will all be forced to use the same voltage/quality. Same should be done for laptops, most ridiculous company in this regard is Asus (other than that, i love the products).
• golemotron 5y ago
  No mention of wireless chargers. The EU is so cute.
• dexen 5y ago
  Bad move, an unforced error. This will stifle innovation needlessly, similarly to how US' (previously) mandated single model of sealed beam headlights stifled their automobile headlights innovation for several decades. Seems some bureaucrat has dusted off the bad old "Everything that can be invented has been invented." quote. The only possible upside would be manufacturers standardizing on wireless charging in all devices just to avoid this limitation. For reference: sealed-beam headlamps were introduced in 1939, becoming standard equipment across all American-market vehicles starting in 1940 and remaining the only type allowed for almost four and a half decades, until the 1984 model year. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabolic_aluminized_reflector#Automotive_headlamps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabolic_aluminized_reflector...
  • tapland 5y ago
    It was an absolute disaster before somewhat unified chargers and there was some legislation forcing that unification as well. Being able to reliably find a charger or borrow others' has been crucial for smart phone adoption.
    • masklinn 5y ago
      > there was some legislation forcing that unification as well. FWIW there was not. There was the threat of legislation, which led to an MoU, and the EC expressed satisfaction with the results. In fact multiple manufacturers effectively reconducted the MoU unrequired (but probably to show good faith and further mitigate the risk of legislative action)
  • Ginden 5y ago
    > This will stifle innovation needlessly Do we have any room left for innovation in charging ports? USB-C provides 24 pins, up to 240W Power Delivery (negotiable), up to 40 Gbit/s, ability to negotiate alternate modes (so manufacturer can implement new proprietary protocol if they want/need to and put basically anything over those 24 pins).
    • dexen 5y ago
• donatj 5y ago
  Hear me out, I’m an Android guy at heart and I genuinely believe the lightning connector is vastly superior. I never have lightning connectors fail to seat, nor fall out of a socket while I’m using a device, nor have I ever broken a lightning connector on a device. These are all seemingly fundamental problems with USB-C. I have had THREE USB-C sockets fail on two phones through normal use, on Pixel and OnePlus devices. I have never had a USB socket of any other type fail on any device, and I’ve had umpteen cellphones since the late 90s. I genuinely baby my electronics. Almost every USB-C socket after a couple months of use loses its gripping power, whereas the lightning connector on my 2017 iPad I’m writing this on right now is still fantastically grippy. The USB-C on my current phone, a year old Pixel 3A XL is so loose that while mounted to my cars dash, the cable pops out when taking hard turns. The socket is clear of debris, and will do so with a brand new cable. It just has zero holding power left after only a year. I think the vast majority of people who prefer USB-C are those who haven’t spent a significant amount of time with both. iPhone users who blindly assume the other side is greener, and Android users mocking Apples weird connector.
  • Scoundreller 5y ago
    Maybe they can make a USB-C-1 that fits at the start and then USB-C-2 and USB-C-3 that are microscopically bigger to fit those old and wrinkly connectors? Wouldn’t that be great? (Semi-joking, I know some NES games (Konami?) had slightly thicker PCBs that would always work, but at the expense of decreasing the machine’s life overall on every other game). I guess ZIF is the way to go, but hard to fit into small form factors than something slide/brush contractors.)
  • deelly 5y ago
    Looks like all other people on internet with broken lightning connector are blatant liars..
    • donatj 5y ago
      You can break anything if you try hard enough. I make no claims of lightning being indestructible, but USB-C is genuinely fragile.
• GhostVII 5y ago
  Am I the only one who thinks this is completely insane, just based on principle? How have we reached a point where we think it is OK for the government to tell me that I can't buy a phone without a specific charger. This isn't a safety issue, and there isn't any massive infrastructure requirement, let people make their own decisions. If I want to make a crazy phone that is 2mm thin and needs some special charger, I shouldn't be banned by the government from doing so. And if I have some charging port that I think is better than USB-C, I shouldn't have to lobby the government to get it implemented. Right now new phones either have lightning, or USB-C. Seems pretty reasonable to me. USB-C is not faultless - imagine if we had been stuck with micro-USB instead. How about the government leaves us alone and lets us make our own decisions. I think that would be nice. Just make people pay for their externalities. Hopefully in practice, all this means is that Apple will include a lightning to USB-C converter in the box.
  • ghostDancer 5y ago
    Do you remember when every phone had a different charger?. I do it was crazy, stupid and expensive. They had to regulate it. Now is starting again.
    • GhostVII 5y ago
      Just because something is annoying doesn't mean it should be regulated. Especially when that regulation is going to stifle innovation. And right now we don't have a tonne of different chargers, we have two, both of which are good in different ways.
• datavirtue 5y ago
  This is good as it will end up an example of what a government product looks like. Soon outdated and inadequate, and the only thing available--infinite wisdom, stifling innovation. Sounds like a good idea, but probably not. However, this also looks like a "problem" they feel capable of solving, so that makes the idea more attractive when their world is littered with real, difficult problems yet unaddressed.
• solarkraft 5y ago
  The thing I hate the most about my iPhone is the stupid charging port. For sure it’s better than micro USB, but it’s not better than USB-C. I think they’re preparing to transition over anyway, with devices gradually replacing the port. But I guess the iPhone is going to be among the last.
• concinds 5y ago
  Sadly, this doesn't seem like it'll ban Apple from removing the port from iPhones: > - harmonise the charging interface for mobile phones and similar categories or classes of radio equipment (tablets, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers) that are recharged via a wired charging The EU needs to get in front of this, because forcing all iPhone users to use a bigger, heavier charging puck, waste 50% more electricity, and be unable to transfer files quickly to or from the iPhone, seems utterly unacceptable to me. https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46755/attachments/3/translations/en/renditions/native https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46755/attachments/3/...
• PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  The article focuses on forcing USB-C ports (popular), but the proposal also unbundles chargers from products like cell phones (unpopular). Apple and several other vendors already unbundled chargers from their boxes with mixed reception. Will be interesting to see how this proposal is received when people realize it means they’ll be purchasing chargers separately.
  • kylecordes 5y ago
    Although I think generally a regulation to get a handle on port proliferation can be very helpful and pro-consumer, inevitably consumers will primarily blame phone manufacturers greed as the reason they don’t get a charger in the box anymore.
  • reeealloc 5y ago
    Presumably unbundled chargers will be fine with USB-C on everything. It's not proprietary like Apple's chargers and easy to find.
    • ZekeSulastin 5y ago
      … but Apple’s chargers have been USB on the charger side for ages (previously USB-A, currently USB-C). The easy availability of chargers that work with the phones did little to stop the complaints when they were unbundled.
      • zepolen 5y ago
        One needs a charger and a cable to charge a phone, so even if you can use the bricks, you'd still wouldn't be able to use existing cables.
    • sbuk 5y ago
      What is proprietary about Apples chargers? They sell USB-A and USB-C wall warts, and their devices happily charge on non-Apple chargers. Their laptop chargers are USB-C and have been for some time. I charge my MBP from a Lenovo power brick. The only proprietary part is the lightning connector.
• walterbell 5y ago
  They need to mandate the presence of a physical cable, otherwise Apple will drop the port and move to wireless charging. Wired cable remains important for high-quality audio and secure data transfers. Both WiFi and Bluetooth have a long and storied history of vulnerabilities. While they are at it, can we please have a dedicated physical cable port for audio? It doesn't have to be TRRS 3.5mm, but it must be possible to have a wired audio/mike connection that is separate from wired power, without power-hungry dongles. e.g. an entire ecosystem of 3rd party audio devices was sidelined by the removal of headphone jacks. Now that everyone who wants a Bluetooth headset has one, can we go back to the pre-Beats era of optional, high-quality wired audio? It can be restricted to Pro devices, if necessary.
  • 0_____0 5y ago
    I wonder what % of phone users have actually used a cable to move data to or from their phone in the last couple of years. I have, but I'm a weird nerd who likes to plug in removable storage once every 6 months or so.
    • walterbell 5y ago
      The ones who still own their data? If data is money, they can also afford to buy new phones. iXpand USB-Lightning drives are supported by some iOS apps which process large files, e.g. media playback and editing. There's no need for everything to be lowest-common-denominator. Product management is not statistics, it is aspirational leadership for upward mobility in human values, including but not limited to function, form, and creative power. e.g. a tiny minority of humans create art for millions, yet both can use the same device + accessories, if devices are not neutered.
      • sgent 5y ago
        iPhone can backup to a PC or NAS wirelessly, no reason for a cable other than charging.
        • walterbell 5y ago
• ethbr0 5y ago
  From the announcement https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_4613 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_... (linked in article) > Today, the Commission is proposing: > A harmonised charging port for electronic devices: USB-C will be the common port. > Harmonised fast charging technology will help prevent that different producers unjustifiably limit the charging speed and will help to ensure that charging speed is the same when using any compatible charger for a device. > Unbundling the sale of a charger from the sale of the electronic device: consumers will be able to purchase a new electronic device without a new charger. > Improved information for consumers: producers will need to provide relevant information about charging performance, including information on the power required by the device and if it supports fast charging. There's also a proposed 2 year implementation delay, before it comes into force. And a subsequent rule requiring charger-side USB-C ports, handled through a different regulator.
  • GhostVII 5y ago
    Wait isn't unbundling the sale of the charger the thing everyone got mad at Apple for? And now they are legislating it?
    • Version467 5y ago
      Apple didn't lower the price after removing the charger.
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      • hexa22 5y ago
        The charger probably costs about $1 to the BoM. I wouldn’t expect to see any change. But this is not the biggest thing which is that the parts of the iPhone do not determine the price. The price is already set and determines what parts go in. If something somewhere else becomes cheaper, that’s more room in the budget to spend elsewhere whether that be better hardware, hiring more software developers, higher skilled retail workers, etc. In the end it’s up to the user to decide if what’s in the box provides enough value to justify the price. And from the sales data of the last year, that’s an astounding yes.
• akmarinov 5y ago
  Apple has until 2024 to conform, but by that time it’s likely the iPhone will be portless. Interesting is that the older iPhones they sell which at that time would be something like iPhone 13/14 will also need to have USB-C.
  • zamadatix 5y ago
    > but by that time it’s likely the iPhone will be portless. Seems exceedingly unlikely unless the law changes by then.
    • kube-system 5y ago
      > The proposals only cover devices using wired, not wireless, chargers
    • akmarinov 5y ago
      > Today’s proposals from the EU only cover wired charging and don’t seek to enforce rules on wireless charging just yet. A spokesperson for the Commission has confirmed to The Verge that if a device charges only wirelessly, then there is no requirement to integrate a USB-C charging port. https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/23/22689432/eu-iphone-usb-c-switch-portless-design https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/23/22689432/eu-iphone-usb-c-...
• post_break 5y ago
  I can see the good and bad in this. But as of right now USB C looks like the future with both the amount of power it can deliver as a port, as well as speed in terms of Thunderbolt 4, plus thunderbolt 4 will open up to not just intel if I understand correctly. Every single device in my house now uses USB C. From phone, laptop, tablet, to keyboard, air monitor, even my flashlights charge via USB C.
  • nicce 5y ago
    Actually Apple is moving a way from USB-C-only charger on the next gen laptops, because it does not provide enough power(to get even better charging speed). (Physical size limits that) So, maybe for phones it is enough in the future, but not for all devices.
    • sudosysgen 5y ago
      That's bullshit. You can carry 240W over USB-C. Physical size limits current, not voltage, and you can increase voltage.
      • dspillett 5y ago
        Is anyone actually selling devices that can output or consume that yet? IIRC the updated standard was only made public a few months ago. I know some off-spec devices (some XPS laptops for instance) can shovel 130W around where 100W is the usual maximum but I don't remember hearing of any that make use of more. There is another option without that standard too: you could always draw from more than one source. Many USB connected DVD writing devices did (probably still do if not using USB-C) this, so they could be used to write reliably at full speed if the host PC couldn't give more than the lower power standards down a USB port (with higher power support you only need one connection, with legacy ports one connector was data+power the other just power).
        • sudosysgen 5y ago
          None of them have hit the market yet, indeed. But it's still not an issue for Apple, adding a 48V mode to their USB PD controller is trivial. Drawing from multiple ports is a good idea! But if you're MacGyvering something, it's much easier to connect the right resistor to the USB C connector and solder the power lines right into a 48V PSU.
• sidewndr46 5y ago
  Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.
  • cherrycherry98 5y ago
    Ports types have been converging naturally without government intervention. Even for iPhones, the writing is on the wall for the the lightning connector. It was introduced nearly 10 years ago under different market conditions (no equivalent USB standard existed). Apple is gradually converging on USB-C, MacBooks contain only USB-C ports, the iPad Pro uses USB-C instead of lightning. The rest of the product line can't be far behind given their propensity for simplicity, being able to use one cable for everything fits well with that. To answer the EU Commission's question, "Are your chargers piling up in a drawer?". No, I have far less chargers than 10 or 15 years ago when my laptop, digital camera, game system, and phone all had different connectors. Now my laptop, game system (Switch), and phone all use USB-C (phone has absorbed the digital camera). My Kindle is microUSB but newer ones are USB-C as well.
    • selfhoster11 5y ago
      They have been converging way too slowly, and wouldn't have converged as close to one standard without an intervention.
    • wyager 5y ago
      > Ports types have been converging naturally without government intervention. Agreed, so why bother with government intervention? The benefit is small and the potential long-term costs associated with retarding technological development are high.
    • galgalesh 5y ago
      I think you greatly underestimate how much of this "natural convergence" happened because of EU influence. See the memorandum of understanding of 2009. https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/red-directive/common-charger_en https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/r...
• dahfizz 5y ago
  It makes me uneasy to have governments mandate technical implementations like this. Would USB-C ever have been invented if all companies were required to use USB micro-B for everything? Maybe I'm jaded by my American government, but I have zero faith in the ability of a group of politicians to stay up to date with technical standards and keep legislation like this up to date.
  • zepolen 5y ago
    Micro USB became ubiquitous because Europe put forth a commission in 2009 to make it so. Before that every phone had their own weird charger. It was hell. Life got much better after 2009. Guess who didn't participate? Apple. Because they weren't forced to. This time, they are, and life will get much better. On American government, yea, it's hard to trust something that is bought and paid for by corporate America, Europe however has some balls in that department.
    • zepto 5y ago
      Thank god they didn’t comply. Micro usb is appalling compared to lightening, but if Apple had complied we would probably be stuck with it.
      • Robotbeat 5y ago
        Yeah, odd to me that people point to microUSB as a victory. That connector is absolutely terrible! I’ve had to fix microUSB ports multiple times. It’s super fragile.
        • deleted 5y ago
          [deleted]
  • mmastrac 5y ago
    > Maybe I'm jaded by my American government, It might not surprise you, but there is a wing of politics where their goal is to make government as dysfunctional as possible to drag everyone towards a certain political ideal they have.
• birdman3131 5y ago
  Im not a fan of the quick charging standard being forced as it sounds like it will be one hell of a step back for anybody on a oneplus/oppo phone. The quick charging there is absolutely amazing. Im on an older version but even then my 1+ 7 pro charges fast and never gets hot while charging. Compared to PD or QC it is leagues better.
  • zamadatix 5y ago
    OnePlus 9 Pro (and previous 7 Pro) owner chiming in. OnePlus was quick to market with good fast charging but it's not all that special these days. You'd never be able to practically tell if my phone used QC 5 or Warp Charge 65T for instance. But that note aside QC/Warp Charge/<marketing gibberish name here> is just out of specced USB PD and most (including OnePlus) have already moved to supporting in spec USB PD on top of their proprietary modifications. The law is written to support your use case: "2. Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging at voltages higher than 5 volts or currents higher than 3 amperes or powers higher than 15 watts, shall: (a) incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-2: Common components - USB Power Delivery specification’; (b) ensure that any additional charging protocol allows the full functionality of the USB Power Delivery referred to in point (a)." and because the law doesn't allow bundling chargers anymore you're free to pick whether you want to use a standard USB PD charger (which the device must support) or buy the manufacturer's proprietary charger (which the device can optionally support).
    • birdman3131 5y ago
      Did they finally get rid of the can't charge very fast while the screen is on and gets hot enough to cook eggs while charging issues with QC5? Because at least with QC3 and previous that was a major issue.
• esseeayen 5y ago
  Wait does this mean that the EU will also prevent the USB-if from charging licensing fees? Or is someone in the EU getting some kickbacks?
  • wizzwizz4 5y ago
    I believe that EU law allows anyone to make USB ports and stuff. It's the USB logo that you're not allowed without licensing fees.
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  • jjcon 5y ago
    That was my first thought, it seems weird to throw a mandate on proprietary licensed hardware. It could lead to very weird outcomes if usbif decides to throw its weight around for political (or geopolitical) reasons.
• letmeinhere 5y ago
  While we're at it, can we enforce some labeling standards? USB-C has become this mystery port/cable that might or might not be capable of video/data/charging at ? throughput. Earlier USB standards had this issue to some extent, but C takes it to another level.
  • gizdan 5y ago
    This feels like a job of USB-IF, not government. They should have been enforcing this from the beginning.
• esseeayen 5y ago
  So does this mean the eu will cover the licensing costs for everyone? https://www.usb.org/getting-vendor-id https://www.usb.org/getting-vendor-id
• hughrr 5y ago
  Can they please mandate replaceable USB-C sockets then because I see a shit load more broken ones than I do lightning connectors. And usually the infernal USB-C things are soldered into the logic board of whatever resulting in damage to that too. Also USB-C sockets are impossible to replace without very specialist tooling. Really not a big fan of this unless there are some additional constraints on it.
  • krzyk 5y ago
    I have never seen broken USB-C. But I have already replaced my wifes lightning cable twice (dirt goes on it and it stopps working).
    • blululu 5y ago
      As a helpful tip, I find that pocket lint will collect in the iPhone lightening port and needs to be cleaned out periodically. A toothpick does the job here.
    • bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
      Replacing a broken cable is far superior to replacing a broken port. In fact I think lightning is designed so that the cable takes the bulk of any stress on the connection.
  • avian 5y ago
    > usually the infernal USB-C things are soldered into the logic board There is no reason why a USB-C receptacle can't be mounted on an easily-replaceable flex/daughterboard like Apple does it with Lightning. > Also USB-C sockets are impossible to replace without very specialist tooling. On the other hand, I can get spare USB-C receptacles from any number of local distributors. I'm not limited to getting an exact matching connector assembly for the specific Apple product that may or may not be out of production.
    • hughrr 5y ago
      Yes I agree. In fact Apple do that with the MacBook Air. I’d like to see that mandated on all devices.
• Wolfenstein98k 5y ago
  "The proposals only cover devices using wired, not wireless, chargers, EU commissioner Thierry Breton said in a press conference, adding that “there is plenty of room for innovation on wireless.”" This quote typifies why Europe is miles behind on tech and innovation more generally. "I can't imagine a better way of doing this, so we should mandate that everyone does this way." We would've never even got wireless charging with this logic back in the USB-A days.
  • ewidar 5y ago
    Actually what that quote is saying is: - Wired charging is now a pretty well known topic, and USB-C is considered a good standard by the vast majority of the industry. So let's make sure that everyone uses this standard to simplify the life of the users. - Wireless charging is still a hot topic, with no clear winner, there is time for the industry to settle on a semi-standard. We'll wait until then to see if a legislation is required.
    • Wolfenstein98k 5y ago
      But Micro-USB was considered a good standard too. There's always a standard, but it doesn't start that way for long for a reason. Why should it stop at USB-C? What will be the requirements for throughput and size in six years time?
• tazjin 5y ago
  > I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? Yet another indicator that all regulation like this should come with a time limit. For another popular example, see the whole South Korea Internet Explorer fiasco.
  • FridayoLeary 5y ago
    A time limit actually sounds like a very good idea.
• ubermonkey 5y ago
  LOLNO.
• pete_b 5y ago
  Remember the EU started as the EEC. More feature creep in realm of transnational governance.
• ComSubVie 5y ago
  Why not wireless charging? I don't mind the connector (lightning works well), better would be mandatory quality of the cables (the iPhone cables are regularly breaking).
  • dspillett 5y ago
    > Why not wireless charging? Much less efficient, so not a good environmental strategy which is the key thing this is aiming at (reducing electronic waste as people throw out old chargers with old devices). Also, for the same efficiency reason, best charging speed is not as fast at least with current tech. Furthermore, wireless charging standards are much more in-flux than USB-C ATM and might be for some time.
• agilob 5y ago
  That's good, but also make it DRM-free. I don't want to label which cable fits which device when they all have the same physical connector.
• CivBase 5y ago
  Why is this so important to the EU? The stated purposes of this proposal are to reduce e-waste and improve consumer convenience, but it's easily argued that the actual impact of the proposal is the exact opposite.
  • alwayseasy 5y ago
    Please argue the opposite because I don't see what you mean.
    • nickpp 5y ago
      Existing iPhone owners (and there are a lot of them!) throwing away their Lightning cables/chargers when purchasing a new phone?
      • t43562 5y ago
        A one off cost.
        • CivBase 5y ago
          But what's the gain? People will buy just as much electronic crap. It will just have USB-C ports instead of lightning ports. And it's not like USB 3.1 Type C will be the top end forever. People will still replace their old stuff whenever the next USB spec lands or some fancy new connector is released. It wasn't long ago that Micro USB 2.X was standard.
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  • rocgf 5y ago
    I would be genuinely impressed if you can successfully defend your point of view. I fail to see how it would be possible for a single type of port for everything to increase waste and worsen consumer convenience.
• eemil 5y ago
  I don't get it. Apple went all-in with USB-C on their computers (starting 5 years ago with the macbook pro). And that was a pretty unpopular decision at the time. Now that the mobile phone industry has standardized on USB-C, they want to stick with lightning? Are they doing it just to be contrarian?
  • etskinner 5y ago
    It seems likely that there are separate teams that develop the phone vs. the laptop. The laptop team embraced USB-C, and the phone team didn't. That, or being lightning-only is simply more profitable. Public companies (like it or not) have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder wealth.
  • wutbrodo 5y ago
    > Are they doing it just to be contrarian? If they continue to avoid the widely-used standard, they reduce the likelihood a consumer will buy their overpriced first-party peripherals. This hardly even counts as nefarious: it's openly their brand to dismiss the benefits to the user of interoperability.
• cs702 5y ago
  The big deal about is not so much the choice of USB-C, but the fact that manufacturers will be required to have at least one compatible charging/communication connector. Quoting from the OP: > Manufacturers will also be forced to make their fast-charging standards interoperable, and to provide information to customers about what charging standards their device supports. Under the proposal, customers will be able to buy new devices without an included charger. Vendors would continue to have the option of adding proprietary connectors, so long as consumers also have the option to use a standard connector. Consumers would have more choice. That sounds like a great idea to me.
• d--b 5y ago
  This is silly. Apple's just going to add a $5 converter to their boxes that no one is going to use. They will also sell the converter for $75 just in case you do use it and lose it.
  • ewidar 5y ago
    > Unbundling the sale of a charger from the sale of the electronic device: consumers will be able to purchase a new electronic device without a new charger. Maybe not, depends how this gets interpreted.
• _Understated_ 5y ago
  What version of USB-C? There are several and they are confusing as hell!
• nickpp 5y ago
  I went through such a transition with my iPad Pro: from Lighting port (like my iPhone) to USB-C. The result was subjectively worse: the USB-C port is harder to insert into as the margins are straight and "catch", while the Lighting port had a slight bevel, making insertion as smooth as butter. The fit is not perfect and touching the inserted cable moves it slightly inside the port. The Lightning connection was rock solid in comparison. The USB-C port is also a male port hidden in a female one. Because of that dirt accumulates around the little knob inside which the limited space makes it much harder to clean than the Lightning port. Finally, I had to purchase separate chargers and cables instead of the ones I already had. Not as bad as micro-USB though. That always takes me 3 tries (one on each side then again on the original side) after which I have to look at the damn connector and try for a 4th time.
  • asddubs 5y ago
    I do actually agree with these points, lightning is the better connector, but it's proprietary and the other one is a widely used standard, so what are ya gonna do
• beezischillin 5y ago
  This might be a naive question but couldn't they just mandate something like 'the latest and or most appropriate revision of the USB standard for the use case' within reason and have that include potential future updates as well, making the law at least mostly future-proof instead of having to wait for politics to catch up with technology?
• turtlebits 5y ago
  Considering lightning has been around for longer than any of the USB variants (mini, micro and USB-C, approx 7 years each), this makes no sense. Is the EU going to restrict innovation and prevent another USB connector from being developed?
  • thebean11 5y ago
    Lightning is proprietary to Apple. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it's apples and oranges.
• jollybean 5y ago
  A bridge too far, dictating terms they don't understand. 1) Manufacturers don't use USB-C in some cases because it takes up a lot of space. The point being, you can't dictate at this level of design. 2) 'Connectors' are like 'sraws' - they don't take up landfill. They are negligible waste item. These are things that legislators think of 'because it's in front of them' i.e. they literally see these things every day, instead of thinking more deliberately about both waste and products. 1) Requirement to use a 'standard connector' would be appropriate, but they all do now. Or rather, lightning is not standard, the EU could encourage the open sourcing of it. 2) Some efforts to recycle all electronics would be interesting as well. Cords could be sold with a $1 'recycle markup' that goes to the recycler or something like that - this, along with other bits of operational impetus, might make an appreciable dent.
• hereforphone 5y ago
  Of course there are positives. But the overall effect will be to stifle advancement. We grow through trial and error.
  • nerbert 5y ago
    The lightning port has been such a great process of trial and error... to milk money out of iphone users.
• yummybear 5y ago
  Can someone explain why it’s a problem that different phones use different charger cables?
  • Wronnay 5y ago
    Unnessecary electric waste. You could use one cable and charger for all your devices and wouldn't need a drawer full of cables.
  • barbazoo 5y ago
    > the EU is in favor of having a single charger for all popular gadgets in order to cut down on the environmental impact as well as make it easy for consumers to carry just a single charger for all their gadgets instead of using different proprietary connectors
  • masklinn 5y ago
    Waste. Specifically, the need to replace all your cables when you replace your phone even if they're all in working order.
• moogly 5y ago
  IMO, that charger should be Qi. Ever since trying wireless charging on my Nexus 4 back in late 2012/early 2013 I just can't go back to sticking a cable into my smartphone just to charge it. Makes me feel dirty.
  • masklinn 5y ago
    Wireless charging is an efficiency nightmare.
• intrasight 5y ago
  I expect that this is a battle that Apple will lose. But I don't think they really care that much - because there is neither business or technical justification for a custom connector. Now they can focus on highlighting why their AC converters are superior - which generally they are.
  • masklinn 5y ago
    I expect this is a battle that Apple isn't even trying to fight: they just released an USB-C iPad, and next year marks the 10th anniversary of Lightning. The dock connector lasted ~10 years (it was first made available in 2003, lightning was released in 2012, the 30pin stopped being produced in 2014 outside of India).
• paxys 5y ago
  Last time this happened (with micro USB) Apple just put a dongle in every box.
• bennysomething 5y ago
  So this will be the end of any charging port technology, what would they have selected pre iPhone I wonder? As usual the government knows best when figuring out what a consumer wants or needs.
• andrewfong 5y ago
  I don't know the timelines for these things, but how would this work if someone wanted to introduce a hypothetical USB-D? They'd just need to petition the EU once a new standard was adopted?
  • rvense 5y ago
    I can only say I really, really hope this substantially slows down the introduction of new ports and connectors. USB-C is a n overly complicated clusterfuck, but it'll do for the vast majority of applications for a very long time.
• aristofun 5y ago
  Even though as a user i’d love to use same charger and all — as a thinking man I realize that law people dictating technical decisions is something deeply wrong, dangerous and anti democratical phenomena :(
• elmimmo 5y ago
  I don’t get it. Is this about chargers or charging cables? All news sites seem to be conflating both. What phone maker today ships a charger not with a USB (A or C) female connector therefore compatible with pretty much any other phone?
• KernelPryanic 5y ago
  That’s a good move
• theHIDninja 5y ago
  It will be interesting to see how Apple weasels their way out of this.
• pabs3 5y ago
  I wonder what will happen when USB-C is replaced with USB-D or USB-M (theoretical future magsafe version of USB).
• dapithor 5y ago
  Wait, they want common PORT on all phones yet the wall end isn't so common? Blasphemy ...
  • EdSchouten 5y ago
    I think that in virtually all parts of the EU, you can use CEE 7/7 plugs.
• fomine3 5y ago
  Now I think iPhone to adopt USB-C is good thing to the world, but I don't know is it better to forced by EU.
• deleted 5y ago
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