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Confessions of a Michelin Star Inspector

216 points by teruakohatu 5y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
Very cool (Michelin Guide is a very opaque company), but there is one thing that caught my attention: >Hailing from Scotland where, as a child, he was regaled with some of the world’s best meats and produce Maybe they meant somewhere other than Scotland? Like, anywhere? My mother was British, and she was an excellent cook. Of non-British dishes...
- tomcam 5y ago
  That's pretty funny, but my guess was that it was all locally produced. Fresh grass-fed beef is hard to beat.
  - deleted 5y ago
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- cameronh90 5y ago
  Scotland does have excellent meat and produce - the Aberdeen Angus and Scottish Salmon for example. The standard of food in the lowlands is generally poor - especially outside of Edinburgh. But there is a lot of absolutely cracking Scottish/British food in the Highlands. Of course, it's not as good for a foodie as somewhere like London, NYC or Tokyo. But it's a lot better than the kebabs, pizza crunches and munchie boxes that people associate with Scotland.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > But it's a lot better than the kebabs, pizza crunches and munchie boxes that people associate with Scotland. If it's any consolation, the only food I associate with Scotland is haggis, and I don't expect that people there are actually eating it. I have no opinion whatever on what people in Scotland eat. (Except, of course, that it probably isn't haggis.)
    - Semaphor 5y ago
      Haggis is great, but it certainly is divisive ;)
      - bserge 5y ago
        Haggis is exactly what poor hungry me would've come up with and loved :D
        deleted 5y ago
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    - arethuza 5y ago
      "I don't expect that people there are actually eating it" Well, I'm a Scot living in Scotland and I eat it fairly frequently - its a fairly standard food, though not as popular as things like curry, obviously. NB I probably count as "posh" as I eat it with neeps and tatties, not deep fried with chips. Edit: Scotland has some great food and also some dreadful food - fortunately its not too difficult to spot the difference.
    - dghf 5y ago
      > If it's any consolation, the only food I associate with Scotland is haggis, and I don't expect that people there are actually eating it. I have no opinion whatever on what people in Scotland eat. (Except, of course, that it probably isn't haggis.) I mean, not everyone eats it, and those that do certainly don't eat it all the time, but it's pretty common. The haggis supper is a chip-shop staple. A full Scottish fried breakfast may well include a slice of haggis. There's a good chance that a cafe or van selling bacon rolls will also sell haggis rolls. And so on. It's about as common as black pudding, and fills a similar culinary niche.
- Bayart 5y ago
  Scotland has some of the best beef in Europe.
- gadders 5y ago
  The pizza was an artisanal one with sour-dough base and freshly made before it was deep fried. Also he had the good Irn Bru with the sugar still in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-fried_pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-fried_pizza More seriously, though, in terms of produce - sea food, beef etc, I would think Scotland is world class.
tomcam 5y ago
Went to Paris and dined at a number of Michelin-starred places, including Le Cinq. The food was fine, but... I didn't get it! I think there is a culinary language that I understand as little as a typical Michelin-starred chef would be able to evaluate a tightly-written C program. On the other hand I was lucky enough to dine at Poppy Seattle every year of its existence and felt their completely original approach to thalis would have absolutely merited three stars. Poppy was well known to be one of the best restaurants in town, but I still wonder how I would have reacted if I understand the language better. To calibrate, on a scale of 1-10 I would rate Cheesecake Factory and Starbucks food at a 3, Tim Horton and McDonald's at 4, and Olive Garden at 6. I'd put LeCinq at 8 and Poppy at 10. My wife has more sophisticated taste. She though 3 stars for LeCinq made sense. I have double-blind tested her a number of times and her taste is unerring, including one trial where she correctly guessed Osetra, Beluga, and Sevruga caviar back when they were all legal, and 4 different kinds of Wagyu beef at a steakhouse.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  In every domain - food, vpns, literature, etc. - I have more or less sophisticated taste (as does everyone). When I was young, I was skeptical of and even sometimes mocked the 'so-called experts' - possibly because (naturally, due to time) I'd developed sophistication in so little. I was very wise. But over time I found that when I develop sophistication in things, the 'so-called experts' suddenly become very smart and were invaluable (at least many of them). Now when I don't understand the expert, I see it as a signal: here is an opportunity to learn a lot, to make a big leap. (Of course, I'll never have time to become sophisticated in everything.)
  - tomcam 5y ago
    Agreed. And I can say confidently that French cuisine is every bit as good as they say, and that American cuisine is generally infinitely far behind.
  - captain_price7 5y ago
    If a movie has won an oscar, I used to count that as negative. Generally avoided nobel winners' books. Interesting how things have changed in just 7-8 years (I'm 25).
wolverine876 5y ago
When I last used the Michelin guide, about ten years ago, it was a little bizarre: IIRC descriptions would give 2-3 sentences about the decor or service, a short phrase about the food, the rating, and that was it. My choice was to blindly trust the rating or to look elsewhere. I took the rating into account, but I need much more information. Is it still that way? Did I misunderstand something?
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  This is me with movies and video games too. Like, sure the Metacritic ratings count for something, but ultimately it's far more significant to me to find a handful of reviewers whose taste I trust who can describe in longer form what it was that worked for them and didn't, and in particular when there are one or more X-factors that make something significantly more than the sum of its parts.
- satellite2 5y ago
  Contrary to what the article suggests, the star system is not really a rating but more of an award. For most people a one star should already the most fantastic restaurant they've had. Even the restaurant that don't receive a star and figure in the guide should be amongst the best in a region. So simply figuring in the guide should already be a strong signal that you will get a minimum quality meal.
- FDSGSG 5y ago
  There usually aren't too many to choose from. Select the cuisine you want and read up on the individual restaurants elsewhere.
Shadonototra 5y ago
Title: Confessions of a Michelin Inspector 1st paragraph: We had the great pleasure to speak to Chris Watson, ex-Michelin Guide inspector Is he a Michelin Star Inspector or an ex-Michelin Guide inspector? Who to trust? title or paragraph?
- bserge 5y ago
  Once a Michelin Inspector, always a Michelin Inspector, I guess
hardwaregeek 5y ago
I've been to multiple Michelin Star restaurants and a few other at that caliber. Perhaps it's me, but I didn't find most of them stunning. The one place that did live up to my expectations was L'Astrance in Paris. Beautiful dishes that had such elegant but strong flavors. The wine pairings were also inspired. I'd love to go to a Michelin level Chinese restaurant. I love Chinese food and would love to see a restaurant pair it with seasonality and quality sourcing
- nicolas_t 5y ago
  If you ever come to Hong Kong, I'd recommend Forum or Ying Jee Club, both are highly rated in the Michelin guide and deserve it. If you don't care for Dim Sum but want great cantonese dishes then Tang Court is another option (their tasting menu is exceptional but their dim sum are a bit overly seasoned and not great).
blunte 5y ago
Michelin Star restaurants, in my 6 or 7 different experiences, are as much about the title as the food. Indeed the service is more formal, to the point of being a bit ridiculous in some cases. But the food itself was not so much more special than a really good unknown restaurant. It's really a bit silly, a status symbol that allows pomp and circumstance to satisfy people who need something "special" to talk about. I have had food from street vendors and family restaurants that blew my mind - unique flavors and textures that I had never experienced before, and which were so magnificently balanced that they surpassed any expensive meal I ever had. And I've had expensive meals which were truly excellent. But my few MS experiences were not markedly better than my best other experiences. It reminds me of the studies of wines and wine tasting. People just like to believe they're getting something special. And if you give it a special award, charge more, and have 4 servers per table, the guests love it.
- ska 5y ago
  > But my few MS experiences were not markedly better than my best other experiences. This is just as you would expect, given sufficient samples, from any classification process that really doesn't want false positives but isn't too concerned about false negatives.
  - satellite2 5y ago
    Perfectly on point. I feel the question that might have missed in this interview is what kind of coverage do they manage yearly. And by region. I expect France should comme much closer to 100% than say, any south Asian country.
    - ska 5y ago
      I think their evaluation method and need for repeat visits means they can't have very good coverage anywhere (there are what, 20-30k in NYC alone?). I doubt any region/city has more than a handful of reviewers. If they were uniformly sampling this would be a disaster, but presumably they have a (probably opaque) system for funnelling down to a manageable number.
- 5y ago
ValentineC 5y ago
Singaporean here. I don't know how Michelin shortlisted the eateries here when the guide first launched here in Singapore, but the selection was oddly similar to TripAdvisor's top food places — and missed out quite a few gems. Not that I blame them — I wouldn't want some of my favourite street food haunts to be overwhelmed by long tourist queues.
refurb 5y ago
This just seems like someone sharing their own subjective take on food? I mean there is no right answer, it’s personal preference? It reminds me of audiophiles who can hear the difference in oxygen free speaker cables or prefer the “warmth” of vinyl. I’m like “ok? seems like that works for you so keep doing it?”
- ohashi 5y ago
  I mean there are some less subjective parts like service and cooking properly. Going to random places and getting food poisoning, or finding plastic from the wrapper in your food I expect would never happen at a michelin star restaurant. Whereas, random hole in the wall places I've eaten at have multiple times given me these experiences. Undercooked meat is a simple one too. A lot of higher rated/fancier places I've found consistently deliver better food. That's not personal preference, it's absence of basic cooking mistakes.
- moehm 5y ago
  There is a huge misconception that professional tasters are rating by their personal preferences. I can't really talk about restaurants, but about wine and spirits. As a taster, you don't look for things you personally enjoy. You look for "quality". That is, balance, complexity, off-flavors, typicity etc. Just because I like my wine oxidized and my meat burned, I can't say the meal was terrible. (But maybe the service, if you have asked for your steak burned, but got it medium rare.)
  - refurb 5y ago
    But quality is still a subjective measure to a large extent. Sure, if something is so salty it's not palatable or your cheesecake is lumpy, one can have a more objective assessment. But even if "professional tasters" agree on what balance means, that's still a subjective measure agreed upon by a select group. As someone who has eaten at Michelin star restaurant and had a mediocre experience, I'm of the mind if I like it then it's an enjoyable experience. It's pretty irrelevant what professional tasters think.
    - 5y ago
11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
First, you really need to enjoy that type of experience. A 3-star restaurant is going to have attentive, almost (but not quite) intrusive service. The servers come across more as dining consultants or even storytellers. One lunch at The French Laundry, our server spent quite a few minutes explaining the history of the butter served with the 'hot buttered rolls' course. The cow that provided the milk had been given to Thomas Keller as a gift, and now lived in upstate New York, eating plenty of clover (I don't recall the bovine's name). The butter was churned there, and then flown refrigerated to the restaurant in Yountville. Then, I commented about the case of aged whiskeys in the case behind our table, and in particular, a 1942 Scotch. A taste could be had for $1,200 per shot. The courses are small servings, but seem to keep coming. There were almost as many dessert courses as main meal courses, and to be honest, when we were done, I was quite uncomfortable from the amount of food I ate. The presentation is art, the flavors typically subtle and complex, and the quality of ingredients is clearly the best to be found. I ate dishes I'd never had before, not always sure what was in them, but could get the full back story by asking. Lunch for four, $1,800, including wine.
- Semaphor 5y ago
  > A 3-star restaurant is going to have attentive, almost (but not quite) intrusive service. The servers come across more as dining consultants or even storytellers. I had that experience in a 0-star chain steakhouse. It was the Football World Championship in Germany, and Germany was playing. I don’t care for that at all (nor did any of the people working that day), they were one of the few restaurants without a TV. I had to keep my eyes lowered as I was the only guest and whenever anyone had the impression there was a chance I was looking at them, someone would come over and ask if I needed anything ;)
  - rdeboo 5y ago
    I've had this experience in Germany and it turned out that the waitress gets a cut of the turnover, at least for drinks. So they have an incentive to keep the glasses full. I'm not sure if this is common in Germany.
ToJans 5y ago
As a Belgian consultant I've spent a lot of time on business lunches and dinners, all over Europe. Big orgs always invited me in Michelin star restaurants. Smaller orgs usually invited me to emerging restaurants or well known local places. If you mostly care about discovering the second kind, I would strongly suggest you to ignore the stars and take a look at Michelin's "bib gourmand rating" [0]: these are restaurants where you don't have as much protocol, food is reasonably priced, and typically places I would go to when I could choose myself... [0] https://guide.michelin.com/nl/nl/restaurants/bib-gourmand https://guide.michelin.com/nl/nl/restaurants/bib-gourmand
- ayngg 5y ago
  I think the bib gourmand is the hidden star of the Michelin guide. It is just good food at a good price and it is much less known so you don't have to deal with the throngs that stars attract. It is more extensive too so there are always options.
  - omeze 5y ago
    +1 to this, if youre visiting paris just follow bib gourmand places and avoid the reservation anxiety. I had the best duck udon Ive ever tasted at Kisin
- locallost 5y ago
  Thanks a lot! It's exactly what I'm always looking for.
  - ToJans 5y ago
    Welcome! Enjoy! I especially recommend asking for the signature local dishes in these kind of places; a lot of pleasant surprises!
jelliclesfarm 5y ago
Having worked in Michelin starred restaurants, we almost always know when an alleged inspector is coming..(there is usually a chart with photos and nicknames in the locker room). the exhilaration and high after the results are out is real. Also..chefs talk. We know. But at that level, it doesn’t matter. Every plate that goes out has to be perfect..has to be impeccable.
- nicolas_t 5y ago
  Sometimes I wonder if the Michelin inspector in two of the restaurants I know here who do not deserve a star were served other dishes. It's either that or the inspector rated the interior design and service.
  - jelliclesfarm 5y ago
    They visit multiple times. A sub par restaurant would never earn its stars. In Europe anyways. I don’t know about Americas or Asia and beyond.
    - nicolas_t 5y ago
      In Europe, I haven't had an objectively bad experience with michelin starred restaurants. A few of them were not to my taste in terms of seasoning but I could appreciate the execution and quality of ingredients. In HK, I know two restaurants that are objectively not up to par in that the ingredients do not taste fresh, some of the dishes are served overcooked and in the worst case, one of the dish was served both burnt and cold. To be fair, I've tried a lot more michelin restaurants in Asia than in Europe so the sample size is a lot bigger. To name and shame, the two restaurants I'm talking about are Man Wah and Summer Palace. I did have a not so great (but nowhere near as bad as the first two) experience at Run but the second visit was michelin star worthy so at least at that place, it's understandable that they'd get a michelin star (although it does point to the fact that the inspectors might not be visiting during busy weekday lunches)
      - jelliclesfarm 5y ago
yawaworht1978 5y ago
I think it often comes down to personal preference from a consumers view. The second best food experience i have had was a Hilton evening buffet, the best was a Marriot a la carte dinner, by far. The Michelin rated restaurants I felt don't come close. But I am not a big foodie or expert, but all i know a lot of this is pretentious marketing, who's is to guarantee that the meals will be the same when the inspectors are not there? And there are many food places who never "enroll" into such programs. There was once a degustation event for wines where all the so-called experts went to try wines with closed eyes and they could tell apart the cheapest off the supermarket shelf bottles from the "best". Eat what you like, not what someone else tells you is good.
- nicolas_t 5y ago
  The wine degustation story got retold and retold to the point where it got mangled http://sciencesnopes.blogspot.com/2013/05/about-that-wine-experiment.html http://sciencesnopes.blogspot.com/2013/05/about-that-wine-ex...
- sva_ 5y ago
  > And there are many food places who never "enroll" into such programs. I don't think Chefs actually enroll to get Michelin stars, or anything. They will be awarded, if the Chefs want them or not. https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/michelin-guide-seoul-ristorante-eo-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/michelin-guide-seoul-... > "Including my restaurant Eo in the corrupt book is a defamation against members of Eo and the fans. Like a ghost, they did not have a contact number and I was only able to get in touch through email. Although I clearly refused listing of my restaurant, they included it at their will this year as well." > "There are thousands of restaurants in Seoul that are on the same level or better and more honest than those listed on the Michelin guide. It is a sad joke that a mere 170 of them are representing Seoul." There are some cases like this
greggman3 5y ago
I wanna say people just have different tastes. I think it was an episode of NOVA that pointed the range in tastebud density is 3x meaning people with the highest density of tastebuds have 3x those of people with the lowest density. I don't know if there is any research on this but a guess would be that people with high density tastebuds prefer subtler tastes and people with low density tastebuds prefer stronger tastes. If true (or even if for other reasons), one person might find dish A to be exquisite while another finds it repulsive. Add to that genetics like the fact that to 15% of the population brussel sprouts taste like dish soap. Similarly, cilantro. I'm fortunate I don't have those genes so I love both. The point is you can get huge disagreements on what's "good", possibly because of these differences in perception on top of just personal preference. One person likes strong flavored ramen (pork bone for example) and another like subtle flavored ramen (soy sauce or salt based). Note that you can't make strong soy/salt based ramen or subtle pork bone ramen but in general it's common to assume the split. Further, there's regional and family differences. If I grew up with a dish tasting one way then I'll probably feel if it's made differently it's not "authentic" even though I really have no proof that the way I tasted it first is "correct". Example: Not a fan of NYC pizza. A huge fan of well done neapolitan style (more than 80 certified neapolitan style pizza places in Tokyo, only 3 in NYC, and Japan won the pizza competition in Naples 5 times) I enjoy a good meal and don't mind paying but I've had lots of disappointments. Narisawa, $450 a person in Tokyo, considered one of the top 50 restaurants in the world, was not bad but was no better than another place I went a month later for $70. Some $150 a person Yakiniku place in Tokyo was also a pretty big disappointment. There was one piece of meat that was amazing but the other 80% of the meal was subpar compared to the $30 a person chain Yakiniku place my friends and I would often go to. 3 molecular gastronomy restaurants I went to (2 in SF, one in NYC) were interesting but not actually tasty. I'd never go back to any of them. Also went to the highest rated restaurant in Bangkok and its tastes also seemed off. The experience of being a nice restaurant was ok but the food was too salty. All of us, not just me, were disappointed after the hype. One place that stuck out as worth the price for the experience was Gastrologik in Stockholm. A 3hr 17 course meal.
nicolas_t 5y ago
I was raised in a family that didn't really go to fancy restaurants, my father would scoff at waisting money on fancy meals when you could go to a cheaper restaurants multiple times for the cost of one meal at a fancy place. Then, I grew up, eventually traveled around, tried a lot more restaurants and grew a passion for dining out. I can say that my taste changed, when I try things that I have nostalgia for but haven't eaten in years, I'm often disappointed. The tastes I liked from my childhood and early 20s are now things I often consider mediocre, too sweet, not enough complexity, boring. I think a palate like anything is something that can be trained, so far I derive a lot of enjoyment from eating out so the trade off is worth it but there's a trade off for sure. If I suddenly no longer had the money to afford those restaurants, I'd have cravings for expensive food that I wouldn't otherwise have. Side note, while Michelin Guide is a useful resource, I frequently disagree with them. I think they tend to place too much emphasis on service and atmosphere and give stars to restaurants that are all flash but no substance. I tend to prefer the Gault et Millau (at least in France), they have more focus on food and will give good ratings to restaurants with great food but bad service. As someone who goes to restaurants to enjoy the food, the freshness and quality of the ingredients and the cooking skills but who doesn't care about atmosphere at all this fits me better. You'd find small tiny mum and pop eateries in Gault et Millau but they wouldn't be in the Michelin Guide or if they are, they'd only get a bib gourmet.
bjarneh 5y ago
The worst part about some of these 3 star restaurants, is that staff are often unpaid. It's basically what Americans call an internship, i.e. the only "salary" is that you can add working in a 3 star restaurant to your CV. I once visited a 3 star restaurant in Spain (Arzak), where this was the case. If you look at the cost of eating there, and consider that most of the staff is unpaid, it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth. The business model is similar to cruise ships. You buy something very expensive produced by slave labor, that makes a few people obscenely rich, while all others suffer.
- atlasunshrugged 5y ago
  Wait, why is this like cruise ships? I thought people on cruise ships were paid alright (considering also the tips they can make) compared to the alternatives they have at home (my understanding is that the vast majority of workers are non-American/W. EU)
  - bjarneh 5y ago
    > Wait, why is this like cruise ships? I It's a "luxurious experience" fueled by slave labor.
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    You tip dishwasher or floor cleaners? Cruise ships are set up to exploit every loophole out the being a legal entity on international waters under flag of loophole county. Everyone would be better of if that industry died already. Including environment.
    - atlasunshrugged 5y ago
      No, but I assumed there was some sort of tip sharing deal between them; isn't this common in restaurants too (e.g. I tip the server because that's who I'm interacting with and it'd be weird if I walked through the kitchen giving individual small tips to the line cooks, busboys, etc.)
      - 5y ago
Markoff 5y ago
never ate in Michelin star restaurants, but judging by my experiences with more expensive restaurants I can genuinely say the tastiest best food I have in my life was from street stands in Penang (Georgetown), nothing from more expensive restaurants came ever even close I guess I am not sophisticated enough to appreciate wasted money
dr_hooo 5y ago
> In those days, drink and driving wasn’t a factor, so half a bottle of wine with dinner every night This surprised me a little. Was drinking and driving so much more prevalent in the past?
- olivierduval 5y ago
  Well, "half a bottle" was then considered just "normal" (one for lunch, one for dinner), like if you drank a soda. After all, it was "just wine" and everybody was supposed to still be "sober" and able to drive... Troubles started after a bottle of wine ;-)
- FDSGSG 5y ago
  It's still the norm in much of Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if half of Europeans would consider it OK to drive home after half a bottle of wine.
martijn_himself 5y ago
One thing that definitely resonates with me is his mention of sauces when he explains the differences between star ratings. Quite often when I visit a great restaurant I find its a sauce that lifts a dish from the good to memorable. I always thought that was because of the stock made from scratch. This is quite hard to replicate at home- store bought stock cubes add very little depth of flavour to a dish and making stock from scratch, well, unless you have a lot of time on your hands its not going to happen.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >Quite often when I visit a great restaurant I find its a sauce that lifts a dish from the good to memorable. I always thought that was because of the stock made from scratch. Or from knowing exactly what materials or procedures to add to the "school cafeteria" sauce your food service supplier delivers to make it work great with your dish.
- arethuza 5y ago
  "mention of sauces when he explains the differences between star ratings" That's pretty much my view of bacon sandwiches - without "brown" sauce they are pretty good, but with "brown" sauce they are the food of the gods.
- prometheus76 5y ago
  Buying a rotisserie chicken and throwing it in an instant pot with some carrots, onions, celery, and enough water to cover it (and some thyme, rosemary, and bay leaves) for an hour or so has surprisingly good results, and is fairly easy to do. Pour the liquid through a strainer. I pour it into ice cube trays and freeze it, so I can just grab a couple of cubes when I'm making a pan sauce or soup.
  - morley 5y ago
    It's easy enough to start with an uncooked chicken, or better yet, wings for the high collagen content. When you start with a rotisserie chicken, you've a lost a lot of the chicken's flavor to the roaster's drip pan.
vander_elst 5y ago
I'd be curious to know more about how they assure the same evaluation quality in different continents. I've been to several starred restaurants in Europe and US, but I had VERY different experiences: the quality of food and service were on two completely different levels (yes, I read that's more about the food, but I'd still expect a certain quality when it comes to service as well).

216 points by teruakohatu 5y ago

Very cool (Michelin Guide is a very opaque company), but there is one thing that caught my attention: >Hailing from Scotland where, as a child, he was regaled with some of the world’s best meats and produce Maybe they meant somewhere other than Scotland? Like, anywhere? My mother was British, and she was an excellent cook. Of non-British dishes...

tomcam 5y ago
That's pretty funny, but my guess was that it was all locally produced. Fresh grass-fed beef is hard to beat.
- deleted 5y ago
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cameronh90 5y ago
Scotland does have excellent meat and produce - the Aberdeen Angus and Scottish Salmon for example. The standard of food in the lowlands is generally poor - especially outside of Edinburgh. But there is a lot of absolutely cracking Scottish/British food in the Highlands. Of course, it's not as good for a foodie as somewhere like London, NYC or Tokyo. But it's a lot better than the kebabs, pizza crunches and munchie boxes that people associate with Scotland.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > But it's a lot better than the kebabs, pizza crunches and munchie boxes that people associate with Scotland. If it's any consolation, the only food I associate with Scotland is haggis, and I don't expect that people there are actually eating it. I have no opinion whatever on what people in Scotland eat. (Except, of course, that it probably isn't haggis.)
  - Semaphor 5y ago
    Haggis is great, but it certainly is divisive ;)
    - bserge 5y ago
      Haggis is exactly what poor hungry me would've come up with and loved :D
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - arethuza 5y ago
    "I don't expect that people there are actually eating it" Well, I'm a Scot living in Scotland and I eat it fairly frequently - its a fairly standard food, though not as popular as things like curry, obviously. NB I probably count as "posh" as I eat it with neeps and tatties, not deep fried with chips. Edit: Scotland has some great food and also some dreadful food - fortunately its not too difficult to spot the difference.
  - dghf 5y ago
    > If it's any consolation, the only food I associate with Scotland is haggis, and I don't expect that people there are actually eating it. I have no opinion whatever on what people in Scotland eat. (Except, of course, that it probably isn't haggis.) I mean, not everyone eats it, and those that do certainly don't eat it all the time, but it's pretty common. The haggis supper is a chip-shop staple. A full Scottish fried breakfast may well include a slice of haggis. There's a good chance that a cafe or van selling bacon rolls will also sell haggis rolls. And so on. It's about as common as black pudding, and fills a similar culinary niche.
Bayart 5y ago
Scotland has some of the best beef in Europe.
gadders 5y ago
The pizza was an artisanal one with sour-dough base and freshly made before it was deep fried. Also he had the good Irn Bru with the sugar still in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-fried_pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-fried_pizza More seriously, though, in terms of produce - sea food, beef etc, I would think Scotland is world class.

tomcam 5y ago

Went to Paris and dined at a number of Michelin-starred places, including Le Cinq. The food was fine, but... I didn't get it! I think there is a culinary language that I understand as little as a typical Michelin-starred chef would be able to evaluate a tightly-written C program. On the other hand I was lucky enough to dine at Poppy Seattle every year of its existence and felt their completely original approach to thalis would have absolutely merited three stars. Poppy was well known to be one of the best restaurants in town, but I still wonder how I would have reacted if I understand the language better. To calibrate, on a scale of 1-10 I would rate Cheesecake Factory and Starbucks food at a 3, Tim Horton and McDonald's at 4, and Olive Garden at 6. I'd put LeCinq at 8 and Poppy at 10. My wife has more sophisticated taste. She though 3 stars for LeCinq made sense. I have double-blind tested her a number of times and her taste is unerring, including one trial where she correctly guessed Osetra, Beluga, and Sevruga caviar back when they were all legal, and 4 different kinds of Wagyu beef at a steakhouse.

wolverine876 5y ago
In every domain - food, vpns, literature, etc. - I have more or less sophisticated taste (as does everyone). When I was young, I was skeptical of and even sometimes mocked the 'so-called experts' - possibly because (naturally, due to time) I'd developed sophistication in so little. I was very wise. But over time I found that when I develop sophistication in things, the 'so-called experts' suddenly become very smart and were invaluable (at least many of them). Now when I don't understand the expert, I see it as a signal: here is an opportunity to learn a lot, to make a big leap. (Of course, I'll never have time to become sophisticated in everything.)
- tomcam 5y ago
  Agreed. And I can say confidently that French cuisine is every bit as good as they say, and that American cuisine is generally infinitely far behind.
- captain_price7 5y ago
  If a movie has won an oscar, I used to count that as negative. Generally avoided nobel winners' books. Interesting how things have changed in just 7-8 years (I'm 25).

wolverine876 5y ago

When I last used the Michelin guide, about ten years ago, it was a little bizarre: IIRC descriptions would give 2-3 sentences about the decor or service, a short phrase about the food, the rating, and that was it. My choice was to blindly trust the rating or to look elsewhere. I took the rating into account, but I need much more information. Is it still that way? Did I misunderstand something?

mikepurvis 5y ago
This is me with movies and video games too. Like, sure the Metacritic ratings count for something, but ultimately it's far more significant to me to find a handful of reviewers whose taste I trust who can describe in longer form what it was that worked for them and didn't, and in particular when there are one or more X-factors that make something significantly more than the sum of its parts.
satellite2 5y ago
Contrary to what the article suggests, the star system is not really a rating but more of an award. For most people a one star should already the most fantastic restaurant they've had. Even the restaurant that don't receive a star and figure in the guide should be amongst the best in a region. So simply figuring in the guide should already be a strong signal that you will get a minimum quality meal.
FDSGSG 5y ago
There usually aren't too many to choose from. Select the cuisine you want and read up on the individual restaurants elsewhere.

Shadonototra 5y ago

Title: Confessions of a Michelin Inspector 1st paragraph: We had the great pleasure to speak to Chris Watson, ex-Michelin Guide inspector Is he a Michelin Star Inspector or an ex-Michelin Guide inspector? Who to trust? title or paragraph?

bserge 5y ago
Once a Michelin Inspector, always a Michelin Inspector, I guess

hardwaregeek 5y ago

I've been to multiple Michelin Star restaurants and a few other at that caliber. Perhaps it's me, but I didn't find most of them stunning. The one place that did live up to my expectations was L'Astrance in Paris. Beautiful dishes that had such elegant but strong flavors. The wine pairings were also inspired. I'd love to go to a Michelin level Chinese restaurant. I love Chinese food and would love to see a restaurant pair it with seasonality and quality sourcing

nicolas_t 5y ago
If you ever come to Hong Kong, I'd recommend Forum or Ying Jee Club, both are highly rated in the Michelin guide and deserve it. If you don't care for Dim Sum but want great cantonese dishes then Tang Court is another option (their tasting menu is exceptional but their dim sum are a bit overly seasoned and not great).

blunte 5y ago

Michelin Star restaurants, in my 6 or 7 different experiences, are as much about the title as the food. Indeed the service is more formal, to the point of being a bit ridiculous in some cases. But the food itself was not so much more special than a really good unknown restaurant. It's really a bit silly, a status symbol that allows pomp and circumstance to satisfy people who need something "special" to talk about. I have had food from street vendors and family restaurants that blew my mind - unique flavors and textures that I had never experienced before, and which were so magnificently balanced that they surpassed any expensive meal I ever had. And I've had expensive meals which were truly excellent. But my few MS experiences were not markedly better than my best other experiences. It reminds me of the studies of wines and wine tasting. People just like to believe they're getting something special. And if you give it a special award, charge more, and have 4 servers per table, the guests love it.

ska 5y ago
> But my few MS experiences were not markedly better than my best other experiences. This is just as you would expect, given sufficient samples, from any classification process that really doesn't want false positives but isn't too concerned about false negatives.
- satellite2 5y ago
  Perfectly on point. I feel the question that might have missed in this interview is what kind of coverage do they manage yearly. And by region. I expect France should comme much closer to 100% than say, any south Asian country.
  - ska 5y ago
    I think their evaluation method and need for repeat visits means they can't have very good coverage anywhere (there are what, 20-30k in NYC alone?). I doubt any region/city has more than a handful of reviewers. If they were uniformly sampling this would be a disaster, but presumably they have a (probably opaque) system for funnelling down to a manageable number.
5y ago

ValentineC 5y ago

Singaporean here. I don't know how Michelin shortlisted the eateries here when the guide first launched here in Singapore, but the selection was oddly similar to TripAdvisor's top food places — and missed out quite a few gems. Not that I blame them — I wouldn't want some of my favourite street food haunts to be overwhelmed by long tourist queues.

refurb 5y ago

This just seems like someone sharing their own subjective take on food? I mean there is no right answer, it’s personal preference? It reminds me of audiophiles who can hear the difference in oxygen free speaker cables or prefer the “warmth” of vinyl. I’m like “ok? seems like that works for you so keep doing it?”

ohashi 5y ago
I mean there are some less subjective parts like service and cooking properly. Going to random places and getting food poisoning, or finding plastic from the wrapper in your food I expect would never happen at a michelin star restaurant. Whereas, random hole in the wall places I've eaten at have multiple times given me these experiences. Undercooked meat is a simple one too. A lot of higher rated/fancier places I've found consistently deliver better food. That's not personal preference, it's absence of basic cooking mistakes.
moehm 5y ago
There is a huge misconception that professional tasters are rating by their personal preferences. I can't really talk about restaurants, but about wine and spirits. As a taster, you don't look for things you personally enjoy. You look for "quality". That is, balance, complexity, off-flavors, typicity etc. Just because I like my wine oxidized and my meat burned, I can't say the meal was terrible. (But maybe the service, if you have asked for your steak burned, but got it medium rare.)
- refurb 5y ago
  But quality is still a subjective measure to a large extent. Sure, if something is so salty it's not palatable or your cheesecake is lumpy, one can have a more objective assessment. But even if "professional tasters" agree on what balance means, that's still a subjective measure agreed upon by a select group. As someone who has eaten at Michelin star restaurant and had a mediocre experience, I'm of the mind if I like it then it's an enjoyable experience. It's pretty irrelevant what professional tasters think.
  - 5y ago

11thEarlOfMar 5y ago

First, you really need to enjoy that type of experience. A 3-star restaurant is going to have attentive, almost (but not quite) intrusive service. The servers come across more as dining consultants or even storytellers. One lunch at The French Laundry, our server spent quite a few minutes explaining the history of the butter served with the 'hot buttered rolls' course. The cow that provided the milk had been given to Thomas Keller as a gift, and now lived in upstate New York, eating plenty of clover (I don't recall the bovine's name). The butter was churned there, and then flown refrigerated to the restaurant in Yountville. Then, I commented about the case of aged whiskeys in the case behind our table, and in particular, a 1942 Scotch. A taste could be had for $1,200 per shot. The courses are small servings, but seem to keep coming. There were almost as many dessert courses as main meal courses, and to be honest, when we were done, I was quite uncomfortable from the amount of food I ate. The presentation is art, the flavors typically subtle and complex, and the quality of ingredients is clearly the best to be found. I ate dishes I'd never had before, not always sure what was in them, but could get the full back story by asking. Lunch for four, $1,800, including wine.

Semaphor 5y ago
> A 3-star restaurant is going to have attentive, almost (but not quite) intrusive service. The servers come across more as dining consultants or even storytellers. I had that experience in a 0-star chain steakhouse. It was the Football World Championship in Germany, and Germany was playing. I don’t care for that at all (nor did any of the people working that day), they were one of the few restaurants without a TV. I had to keep my eyes lowered as I was the only guest and whenever anyone had the impression there was a chance I was looking at them, someone would come over and ask if I needed anything ;)
- rdeboo 5y ago
  I've had this experience in Germany and it turned out that the waitress gets a cut of the turnover, at least for drinks. So they have an incentive to keep the glasses full. I'm not sure if this is common in Germany.

ToJans 5y ago

As a Belgian consultant I've spent a lot of time on business lunches and dinners, all over Europe. Big orgs always invited me in Michelin star restaurants. Smaller orgs usually invited me to emerging restaurants or well known local places. If you mostly care about discovering the second kind, I would strongly suggest you to ignore the stars and take a look at Michelin's "bib gourmand rating" [0]: these are restaurants where you don't have as much protocol, food is reasonably priced, and typically places I would go to when I could choose myself... [0] https://guide.michelin.com/nl/nl/restaurants/bib-gourmand https://guide.michelin.com/nl/nl/restaurants/bib-gourmand

ayngg 5y ago
I think the bib gourmand is the hidden star of the Michelin guide. It is just good food at a good price and it is much less known so you don't have to deal with the throngs that stars attract. It is more extensive too so there are always options.
- omeze 5y ago
  +1 to this, if youre visiting paris just follow bib gourmand places and avoid the reservation anxiety. I had the best duck udon Ive ever tasted at Kisin
locallost 5y ago
Thanks a lot! It's exactly what I'm always looking for.
- ToJans 5y ago
  Welcome! Enjoy! I especially recommend asking for the signature local dishes in these kind of places; a lot of pleasant surprises!

jelliclesfarm 5y ago

Having worked in Michelin starred restaurants, we almost always know when an alleged inspector is coming..(there is usually a chart with photos and nicknames in the locker room). the exhilaration and high after the results are out is real. Also..chefs talk. We know. But at that level, it doesn’t matter. Every plate that goes out has to be perfect..has to be impeccable.

nicolas_t 5y ago
Sometimes I wonder if the Michelin inspector in two of the restaurants I know here who do not deserve a star were served other dishes. It's either that or the inspector rated the interior design and service.
- jelliclesfarm 5y ago
  They visit multiple times. A sub par restaurant would never earn its stars. In Europe anyways. I don’t know about Americas or Asia and beyond.
  - nicolas_t 5y ago
    In Europe, I haven't had an objectively bad experience with michelin starred restaurants. A few of them were not to my taste in terms of seasoning but I could appreciate the execution and quality of ingredients. In HK, I know two restaurants that are objectively not up to par in that the ingredients do not taste fresh, some of the dishes are served overcooked and in the worst case, one of the dish was served both burnt and cold. To be fair, I've tried a lot more michelin restaurants in Asia than in Europe so the sample size is a lot bigger. To name and shame, the two restaurants I'm talking about are Man Wah and Summer Palace. I did have a not so great (but nowhere near as bad as the first two) experience at Run but the second visit was michelin star worthy so at least at that place, it's understandable that they'd get a michelin star (although it does point to the fact that the inspectors might not be visiting during busy weekday lunches)
    - jelliclesfarm 5y ago

yawaworht1978 5y ago

I think it often comes down to personal preference from a consumers view. The second best food experience i have had was a Hilton evening buffet, the best was a Marriot a la carte dinner, by far. The Michelin rated restaurants I felt don't come close. But I am not a big foodie or expert, but all i know a lot of this is pretentious marketing, who's is to guarantee that the meals will be the same when the inspectors are not there? And there are many food places who never "enroll" into such programs. There was once a degustation event for wines where all the so-called experts went to try wines with closed eyes and they could tell apart the cheapest off the supermarket shelf bottles from the "best". Eat what you like, not what someone else tells you is good.

nicolas_t 5y ago
The wine degustation story got retold and retold to the point where it got mangled http://sciencesnopes.blogspot.com/2013/05/about-that-wine-experiment.html http://sciencesnopes.blogspot.com/2013/05/about-that-wine-ex...
sva_ 5y ago
> And there are many food places who never "enroll" into such programs. I don't think Chefs actually enroll to get Michelin stars, or anything. They will be awarded, if the Chefs want them or not. https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/michelin-guide-seoul-ristorante-eo-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/michelin-guide-seoul-... > "Including my restaurant Eo in the corrupt book is a defamation against members of Eo and the fans. Like a ghost, they did not have a contact number and I was only able to get in touch through email. Although I clearly refused listing of my restaurant, they included it at their will this year as well." > "There are thousands of restaurants in Seoul that are on the same level or better and more honest than those listed on the Michelin guide. It is a sad joke that a mere 170 of them are representing Seoul." There are some cases like this

greggman3 5y ago

I wanna say people just have different tastes. I think it was an episode of NOVA that pointed the range in tastebud density is 3x meaning people with the highest density of tastebuds have 3x those of people with the lowest density. I don't know if there is any research on this but a guess would be that people with high density tastebuds prefer subtler tastes and people with low density tastebuds prefer stronger tastes. If true (or even if for other reasons), one person might find dish A to be exquisite while another finds it repulsive. Add to that genetics like the fact that to 15% of the population brussel sprouts taste like dish soap. Similarly, cilantro. I'm fortunate I don't have those genes so I love both. The point is you can get huge disagreements on what's "good", possibly because of these differences in perception on top of just personal preference. One person likes strong flavored ramen (pork bone for example) and another like subtle flavored ramen (soy sauce or salt based). Note that you can't make strong soy/salt based ramen or subtle pork bone ramen but in general it's common to assume the split. Further, there's regional and family differences. If I grew up with a dish tasting one way then I'll probably feel if it's made differently it's not "authentic" even though I really have no proof that the way I tasted it first is "correct". Example: Not a fan of NYC pizza. A huge fan of well done neapolitan style (more than 80 certified neapolitan style pizza places in Tokyo, only 3 in NYC, and Japan won the pizza competition in Naples 5 times) I enjoy a good meal and don't mind paying but I've had lots of disappointments. Narisawa, $450 a person in Tokyo, considered one of the top 50 restaurants in the world, was not bad but was no better than another place I went a month later for $70. Some $150 a person Yakiniku place in Tokyo was also a pretty big disappointment. There was one piece of meat that was amazing but the other 80% of the meal was subpar compared to the $30 a person chain Yakiniku place my friends and I would often go to. 3 molecular gastronomy restaurants I went to (2 in SF, one in NYC) were interesting but not actually tasty. I'd never go back to any of them. Also went to the highest rated restaurant in Bangkok and its tastes also seemed off. The experience of being a nice restaurant was ok but the food was too salty. All of us, not just me, were disappointed after the hype. One place that stuck out as worth the price for the experience was Gastrologik in Stockholm. A 3hr 17 course meal.

nicolas_t 5y ago

I was raised in a family that didn't really go to fancy restaurants, my father would scoff at waisting money on fancy meals when you could go to a cheaper restaurants multiple times for the cost of one meal at a fancy place. Then, I grew up, eventually traveled around, tried a lot more restaurants and grew a passion for dining out. I can say that my taste changed, when I try things that I have nostalgia for but haven't eaten in years, I'm often disappointed. The tastes I liked from my childhood and early 20s are now things I often consider mediocre, too sweet, not enough complexity, boring. I think a palate like anything is something that can be trained, so far I derive a lot of enjoyment from eating out so the trade off is worth it but there's a trade off for sure. If I suddenly no longer had the money to afford those restaurants, I'd have cravings for expensive food that I wouldn't otherwise have. Side note, while Michelin Guide is a useful resource, I frequently disagree with them. I think they tend to place too much emphasis on service and atmosphere and give stars to restaurants that are all flash but no substance. I tend to prefer the Gault et Millau (at least in France), they have more focus on food and will give good ratings to restaurants with great food but bad service. As someone who goes to restaurants to enjoy the food, the freshness and quality of the ingredients and the cooking skills but who doesn't care about atmosphere at all this fits me better. You'd find small tiny mum and pop eateries in Gault et Millau but they wouldn't be in the Michelin Guide or if they are, they'd only get a bib gourmet.

bjarneh 5y ago

The worst part about some of these 3 star restaurants, is that staff are often unpaid. It's basically what Americans call an internship, i.e. the only "salary" is that you can add working in a 3 star restaurant to your CV. I once visited a 3 star restaurant in Spain (Arzak), where this was the case. If you look at the cost of eating there, and consider that most of the staff is unpaid, it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth. The business model is similar to cruise ships. You buy something very expensive produced by slave labor, that makes a few people obscenely rich, while all others suffer.

atlasunshrugged 5y ago
Wait, why is this like cruise ships? I thought people on cruise ships were paid alright (considering also the tips they can make) compared to the alternatives they have at home (my understanding is that the vast majority of workers are non-American/W. EU)
- bjarneh 5y ago
  > Wait, why is this like cruise ships? I It's a "luxurious experience" fueled by slave labor.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  You tip dishwasher or floor cleaners? Cruise ships are set up to exploit every loophole out the being a legal entity on international waters under flag of loophole county. Everyone would be better of if that industry died already. Including environment.
  - atlasunshrugged 5y ago
    No, but I assumed there was some sort of tip sharing deal between them; isn't this common in restaurants too (e.g. I tip the server because that's who I'm interacting with and it'd be weird if I walked through the kitchen giving individual small tips to the line cooks, busboys, etc.)
    - 5y ago

Markoff 5y ago

never ate in Michelin star restaurants, but judging by my experiences with more expensive restaurants I can genuinely say the tastiest best food I have in my life was from street stands in Penang (Georgetown), nothing from more expensive restaurants came ever even close I guess I am not sophisticated enough to appreciate wasted money

dr_hooo 5y ago

> In those days, drink and driving wasn’t a factor, so half a bottle of wine with dinner every night This surprised me a little. Was drinking and driving so much more prevalent in the past?

olivierduval 5y ago
Well, "half a bottle" was then considered just "normal" (one for lunch, one for dinner), like if you drank a soda. After all, it was "just wine" and everybody was supposed to still be "sober" and able to drive... Troubles started after a bottle of wine ;-)
FDSGSG 5y ago
It's still the norm in much of Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if half of Europeans would consider it OK to drive home after half a bottle of wine.

martijn_himself 5y ago

One thing that definitely resonates with me is his mention of sauces when he explains the differences between star ratings. Quite often when I visit a great restaurant I find its a sauce that lifts a dish from the good to memorable. I always thought that was because of the stock made from scratch. This is quite hard to replicate at home- store bought stock cubes add very little depth of flavour to a dish and making stock from scratch, well, unless you have a lot of time on your hands its not going to happen.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>Quite often when I visit a great restaurant I find its a sauce that lifts a dish from the good to memorable. I always thought that was because of the stock made from scratch. Or from knowing exactly what materials or procedures to add to the "school cafeteria" sauce your food service supplier delivers to make it work great with your dish.
arethuza 5y ago
"mention of sauces when he explains the differences between star ratings" That's pretty much my view of bacon sandwiches - without "brown" sauce they are pretty good, but with "brown" sauce they are the food of the gods.
prometheus76 5y ago
Buying a rotisserie chicken and throwing it in an instant pot with some carrots, onions, celery, and enough water to cover it (and some thyme, rosemary, and bay leaves) for an hour or so has surprisingly good results, and is fairly easy to do. Pour the liquid through a strainer. I pour it into ice cube trays and freeze it, so I can just grab a couple of cubes when I'm making a pan sauce or soup.
- morley 5y ago
  It's easy enough to start with an uncooked chicken, or better yet, wings for the high collagen content. When you start with a rotisserie chicken, you've a lost a lot of the chicken's flavor to the roaster's drip pan.

vander_elst 5y ago

I'd be curious to know more about how they assure the same evaluation quality in different continents. I've been to several starred restaurants in Europe and US, but I had VERY different experiences: the quality of food and service were on two completely different levels (yes, I read that's more about the food, but I'd still expect a certain quality when it comes to service as well).