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I've lived in Australia for 10 years and really considering my familys future in this country. We are sleep-walking towards a very average future. An undiversi

I've lived in Australia for 10 years and really considering my familys future in this country. We are sleep-walking towards a very average future. An undiversified export economy, out of control house prices, a job-market primarily focused on two cities, a government intent on selling all public assets, very limited political interest in positive climate policies. The latter is simply addressed with "technology will help us out when we need it to". It really feels sometimes that the only thing the average Australian cares about is the price of their property portfolio. Or maybe 3 months into the Sydney lockdown is finally getting to me.

King-Aaron 5y ago
After 34 years of being an Australian, the feeling is mutual.
- 6nf 5y ago
  20 years in Sydney. I do not feel Australian any more.
desertraven 5y ago
I’m also here, and quite concerned. I’ve seen how quickly a country can erode (Syria, Ukraine, Hong Kong) and am questioning the future of this country.
- gotts 5y ago
  What do you mean by "country erode"?
  - kodyo 5y ago
    From the context I think he meant “turn into a shithole.”
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Probably general stability and rise of authoritarianism.
    - gotts 5y ago
      How's that Ukraine(a country from that list) has authoritarianism on rise? Any verifiable metrics to prove it?
      - fomine3 5y ago
        Maybe GP refers Crimea, but it seems that it's not good to apply the case for Australia.
- JimTheMan 5y ago
  I guess I don't really follow the reasoning with the examples. Syria has always been a somewhat dangerous place. Ukraine got invaded by Russia. Hong Kong was taken from China by the British, became it's own nation and is currently being ... taken back against its own will in a sense. Not that it couldn't happen. But Australia is not really a place I would imagine a violent uprising happening compared to most other places. I think we have too much social cohesion, even between those who are politically opposed.
mdoms 5y ago
I lived in Australia for 5 years and my sense is that, as harsh as it sounds, Australia needs to go through an extreme hardship to wake up as a nation. Australia has lived true to its moniker as the Lucky Country - at least two full generations of Australians have never witnessed economic hardship or downturn of any kind. Natural disasters pass the nation by (other than wildfires). Even Covid looked like it was going to give Australia a miss until very recently. The populous of Australia are fat and happy, and therefore unbothered by the extremely worrying creeping authoritarianism, an economy teetering on total collapse and incompetent local governance. I had real Brave New World vibes living over there.
- King-Aaron 5y ago
  This is exactly my feeling. Aussies are constantly whinging about extreme first-world problems and are completely apathetic (or willfully ignorant) of what real hardship is. As a result the general population is blindly letting the government erode our rights and are too pre-occupied with their own lives to actually realise what's happening.
  - vncecartersknee 5y ago
    "blindly letting the government erode our rights" what else are we supposed to do? how do you stop the government from doing that?
    - worik 5y ago
      Vote. Protest - particularly direct action Challenge them
      - mc32 5y ago
        In Australia people are compelled to vote, so the problem looks like the majority having a different take. Not that I agree with their votes, but you can’t say they don’t vote. Ultimately what is one supposed to do in a democracy (never mind Australia for a moment) when you’re just not part of the majority opinion on something?
toomuchtodo 5y ago
If you had to emigrate, what would your top 3 options be?
- King-Aaron 5y ago
  1. Antarctica 2. The moon 3. Mars
  - 8note 5y ago
    What does the healthcare look like at these places? Is the climate habitable? Clean air?
    - speed_spread 5y ago
      Antarctica has clean air, cheaper healthcare than the US and is more habitable than Florida.
      - OneEyedRobot 5y ago
        Watch out for Antarctica Man.
- rosege 5y ago
  I've lived in Europe. Would probably go to Spain or Portugal.
brezelgoring 5y ago
So sad to hear that. Hope it goes well for you wherever you choose to go, although I don't think there are many places left that aren't like that, at least not any places that have an acceptable standard of living. Something about a city having a future at all makes the real estate vortex come to life. Know of a place? Tell me, dear reader, I'd love to hear it.
- tacocataco 5y ago
  Buy a used semi truck for $20k, buy a used refrigerator trailer. Renovate into your house.
colordrops 5y ago
You could do the following for almost every response in this particular thread and it would still be accurate: s/Australian?/US American?/g
tac0_ 5y ago
I feel you mate. Sad part is Australia has all the potential to have a really good future but the only thing missing is competent leadership. The liberal government continues to fuck up time and time again and the Murdoch press just turns a blind eye. Fucked up quarantine, fucked up vaccine rollout, fucked up climate policies, fucked up the news media bargaining code, and fucked up numerous policies just to prop up the housing market. And it'll be the younger generations that will certainly pay for these fuck ups. I really hope we have an early election and Australians choose Labor over Liberal this time.
- lsiebert 5y ago
  For US folks, The Liberal Party is Center Right and further to the left than the Republicans, Labor is Center Left and further to the left of the Democrats.
  - jclulow 5y ago
    Under the current leadership the LNP inches closer to the GOP with each passing day, so, I don't expect they'll be perpetually to the left of the Republicans.
    - bogomipz 5y ago
      Sorry if this is a silly question but are the LP and the LNP the same party? When I try to look up LNP I see references to Queensland which confuses me if it's a national party. If not are they related?
      - stephen_g 5y ago
        Yeah, it's confusing. The federal parties are made up of state branches, and the state branches of the Nationals and Liberals merged in Queensland. Federally the two parties are in coalition, so it's basically the same anyway, even though they are technically different parties in the other states.
  - Jedd 5y ago
lumost 5y ago
`It really feels sometimes that the only thing the average Australian cares about is the price of their property portfolio.` If this is the only accessible form of financial gain - why wouldn't they? I strongly suspect that in order to have a dynamic economy a weak housing market is a pre-requisite. Given the choice it's much easier to plunk money down in a house and watch cash magically appear than it is to start a business or do anything creative.
- cgrealy 5y ago
  >If this is the only accessible form of financial gain - why wouldn't they? It's not that they shouldn't care about their property portfolio, but it shouldn't be the only thing they care about. For example, the AU government has given away millions to polluters with no appreciable return (https://australiainstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/P357-Money-for-nothing_0.pdf https://australiainstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/12...). It also has a terrible track record on human rights. And that's just the last things I read... there's plenty more (this mandate for instance).
- exporectomy 5y ago
  Not in Australia but it's been kind of an insult to see my house earning more than the top tax bracket income I've been making from my one-man business for the past 3 years. Sometimes I wonder what the point of trying to earn money with work is. Of course it won't last, but it has a psychological demotivating effect.
  - brokenmachine 5y ago
    Imagine how psychologically demotivated you would feel if you didn't have the property...
    - prawn 5y ago
      And were watching others' properties rise aggressively in price, and further out of your reach. I can imagine that many people feel quite helpless.
mlio 5y ago
I'm releasing a feature film exploring this in a few months (Aus ponzi economy, limited social mobility of next generation here). If anyone is interested in seeing please email hackernewsfilm@gmail and I'll keep you updated.
layoric 5y ago
Born in AU so bias is to stay, which leads me to push more for political change required to try to address these problems. Most of your 10 years has been under a particularly bad (and honestly corrupt) federal gov. Country has a large state capture problem from largely mining companies but also other special interests that have lobbied and . Anything that might threaten those interests is being pretty heavily targeted, including action on climate[0] (See "Gas led recovery", and the use of funds intended to renewables used for things like CCS/CCUS and "blue" hydrogen.). And this is bleeding into laws and enforcement. Then there is the constant resistance to a federal anti-corruption agency as well as reducing the influence of money on federal politicians (see backbencher/ministers resolving door with lobbying firms). The conclusion I've (sadly) come to, is that (in the short term at least) more money needs to be thrown at smaller parties and independents to try to combat this. Unlike the USA, Australia has precedent of minority governments and compulsory voting combined with a preference system means that gaining even a small number of lower house/senate seats can make a disproportional impact to the policies being set around Australia. Both major parties are so similar but just switching from Blue to Red is unlikely to result significant change in policies for some of the issues you've raised. [0] https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/wa-counter-terrorism-police-raid-climate-activists-homes-over-chalk-graffiti-20210820-p58kn0.html https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/wa-cou...
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > compulsory voting This always seemed like madness to me. You can force someone to vote, but you cannot force them to vote responsibly. They may just vote "screw you" just for revenge. The right to vote includes the right to abstain from voting when one does not care. Forced voting sounds like a recipe for bad election results. I would expect the same from paying people to vote.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    > I would expect the same from paying people to vote. That's already the case pretty much everywhere since populists promise benefits to whoever elects them. So de facto you are getting paid for your vote if you are in a special interest group.
smcleod 5y ago
Almost 11 years in Melbourne (from NZ) and I couldn't agree more. The 220~ days (and counting) that Melbourne has been in lockdown has certainly worn me down, but even before C19 the political climate, attitude towards technology, cost of housing and the impact of increasing bushfires has taken an enormous toll on the country over the past decade that I've been here.
- fhe 5y ago
  How would you compare NZ with Australia? What are the big differences you noticed? Thanks.
  - girvo 5y ago
    I'm a Kiwi who's lived in Australia for two thirds of my life. New Zealand's economy and cost-of-living is markedly weaker and higher than Australia's; the property-is-the-only-investment idea is somehow even worse in NZ, at least lately The day-to-day life in NZ is lovely though. At least where I'm from in Northland. Australia and NZ are more similar than they are different, I feel.
  - potatochup 5y ago
    My hot take: (lived in NZ, Aus, NL and USA) Both places are are similar in that: - They have good access to nature/beaches - Property prices are nuts, most people see property as their primary investment vehicle. This is a big cause of wealth inequality - general populace has a relatively easygoing disposition Aus has better weather (assuming you like warm and sunny), higher salaries and is somewhat less far from the world if you want to travel NZ has a better human rights record, much cleaner grid, and doesn't seem to have the authoritarian bent that Aus does. It's like the slightly hippie/socialist/woke little sibling.
    - desertraven 5y ago
      Could you add NL and USA to your comparison by any chance? Just curious.
cletus 5y ago
So I'm Australian but from the part no one ever visits (ie Perth). I say this because for most visitors Australia = Sydney, maybe Melbourne. Anyway, I've gone to live overseas a couple of times now. The most recent time was to the US 11 years ago. I'm still here. As many problems as the US has, the one big selling point it has is career opportunities and earning potential as a software engineer. Like... it doesn't even come close. I'll take what my US compensation buys me in NYC over whatever compensation I could get buys me in Sydney (in particular). Property in Australia is like a game of musical chairs but the music stopped in Sydney in 1978 (in Perth and Melbourne it was more like 2003). One thing I like about the US tax system is there is no negative gearing (mostly). Specifically if you earn over a certain amount ($150k but it starts sliding down at $100k) then you can't offset ordinary taxes with passive losses. I really think Australia desperately needs this system but negative gearing is so ingrained in Australian culture now that it's political suicide to try and change it. I believe Labor made noises about this in a recent Federal election and suffered the consequences. It's a shame because Perth and even Melbourne used to have a relatively low cost-of-living and high quality-of-life. I honestly don't know how anyone does it now. As for the politics, it's a bit of a mixed bag. Australia doesn't have the crazy evangelicals that the US does, for example. Like when the gay marriage issue was decided even the highly conservative former PM Tony Abbott basically came out and said the matter was settled and it's time to move on. As for climate change, while I believe in it I also don't think anything will change out of pure altruism by any large group of people. And that's anywhere. It's not unique to Australia. Look at what's happened to the price of solar in the last decade. I'd say the ugliest side of Australian politics and culture in general is actually the treatment of refugees and the so-called (this name still sends shivers down my spine) Pacific Solution. Oh and we can't forget Australia's most pustulent export: Rupert Murdoch.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > Like when the gay marriage issue was decided even the highly conservative former PM Tony Abbott basically came out and said the matter was settled and it's time to move on. Australia recognized same sex marriage in 2017. That was 3 years after after the USA did. I'm not sure I would call Australia as being progressive by that measure.
billiam 5y ago
might not want to hear this as an adoptive Aussie, but two words, mate: New Zealand.
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  The GPs issues were An undiversified export economy, out of control house prices, a job-market primarily focused on two cities, a government intent on selling all public assets, very limited political interest in positive climate policies. The latter is simply addressed with "technology will help us out when we need it to". And you suggest New Zealand?! - Australian housing is a bargain compared to NZ ones. - NZs job market is focused on one city, which is smaller, more expensive, lower wages and more crime than Brisbane or Perth. There's a reason so many New Zealanders live in Australia and not vice versa.
apatheticonion 5y ago
Moved to Sydney from New Zealand and have been here for 6 years. I do like it here compared to New Zealand but I think I would move elsewhere given the chance. The internet here is an actual joke, the politics are biased towards conservatism, don't think about owning an electric car but... the pay is quite good and it's a nice place to go out. Lots of nature and you can find nice apartments to rent if you look. New Zealand by comparison is great but it's remote, expensive and has a low salary when compared to other western countries. It has been a while since I was there last, but public transport is hilariously bad - but if you enjoy nature and silence, it's there in abundance. My company has offered to relocate me to NYC, which is interesting. Looking on YouTube at what the city looks like and it's pretty ugly if I am honest. Apartments seem to be small and you don't get modern style apartments even 45 minutes from Manhattan via public transport. I am concerned that my lifestyle would suffer living there. Hey Canada, how you doing?
- rapind 5y ago
  Hey, this is Canada. We're in a housing bubble. Sorry 'bout that.
- nunb 5y ago
  Not so good with out of control house prices, fueled by safe-haven demand … at least we won’t run out of freshwater as fast as Oz will … still, Mosman is heaps above Kits / Point Grey in my opinion! NYC is really a dump though. West Coast is the best coast! If you’re from NZ you will likely love the areas around Vancouver, Whistler & Victoria BC!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- CydeWeys 5y ago
  > My company has offered to relocate me to NYC, which is interesting. Looking on YouTube at what the city looks like and it's pretty ugly if I am honest. This is a great opportunity that you'd be silly to pass up because of some YouTube videos. You have to at least visit in person to give it a fair shot. NYC is the largest city in any western country. I guarantee you can find parts of it you'd like. > Hey Canada, how you doing? Pay in tech is way, way higher in NYC than in Canada.
cenophor 5y ago
> It really feels sometimes that the only thing the average Australian cares about is the price of their property portfolio. Maybe the sample average of the people you hang around is quite different from the population average. The average Australian can't even afford to have a property portfolio, let alone caring about one.
joelbondurant 5y ago
Kill Kill Kill without mercy.
Waterluvian 5y ago
For what it’s worth, you could substitute Canada or countless other nations and say all the same things.
samstave 5y ago
I recall readinga book when I was young, it was all about a nuclear war - and the perspective of the characters was that AU was the last bastion of humanity to survive... and went on to talk about how the people were able to survive there... So dystopian weird idea follows: What if "they" are 'cleansing' Australia to make it clear for the oligarch elites to come in and claim the land! :-)
- samstave 5y ago
  It would be wonderful if HN had an ear for SCI-FI ideas as opposed to taking every gosh darn thing literally... I understand the need to keep some "thought-bumpers" to prevent reddit-ization of HN (ironic given that HN is the seed of Reddit) -- but FFS lighten the heck up.
Gatsky 5y ago
This is one view... but I suspect most people living somewhere that is a proper city as opposed to a resort would say similar things. Net migration rate provides a more objective view of whether a country has an 'average future'. If you look at the global net migration rates, Australia and particularly the capital cities have some of the highest rates in the world, despite being far away from anywhere. The factors driving this may not align at all with what you personally want from a country or a city, which is fair enough. But your comment seems like quite a generalisation to make from a very specific position.
stephen_g 5y ago
The next election is critical, I think. Need a minority Labor Government with a strong crossbench - neither major party ruling in their own right will make any moves in the right direction for the country at this point...
- gonzo41 5y ago
  We need a labor government to call a royal commission into Murdoch's influence in Australian politics. Truth in media laws and the immigration minister needs to revoke Australian citizenships of a few people in those orgs who could rightly be considered malicious non stat actors.
locusm 5y ago
Spot fucking on.
moneywoes 5y ago
Sounds like Canada
eru 5y ago
Out of all the things you mention, privatizing government owned assets it actually a good thing. Or at least it can be a good thing, as long as the process ain't mismanaged too badly. Governments seldom do the simplest thing of just auctioning off eg a state-owned business or plot of land to the highest bidder. Most of the time they insists on beauty contests where politicians want to judge bidders' plans. That's a recipe for corruption and cronyism. Or they only sell off eg a business piecemeal, making a turnaround in private hands much harder.
terrywang 5y ago
This is going to happen sooner or later, the pandemic accelerated it, exploiting and abusing the liberty of people will be the new norm - 1984. Observation: at least in NSW it seems that most people trust the government and cooperate with government orders (Digital Tran formation for public service is on the right track, see the delivery of digital driver licence and all other perks and all other self-service integrated services, at the cost of giving up some personal info and privacy (state government says that we can trust them for securing the data/info)... I have been living in Sydney, Australia since 2008. Agree that country is facing tough and worrying economic outlook for the 2020's. It was seriously `lucky country` (mining boom, Rise of China, etc.) when I first landed in SYD, however, with the deterioration of Australia-China relationship, and the undiversified economy structure (mining, education, tourism, etc.), the "lucky country" is going downhill towards the "luckin coffee" direction LMAO. The country is run by politicians holding law and/or accounting degrees with no social responsibility or morals (in comparison with Germany and northern Europe), who are good at making taxation (or similar) laws but with no vision for the country's future (geopolitical influence, economy, etc.). Most people underestimate the stupidity of government and central banks, keep printing $ (QE) and pump the money to the banking system, making the asset bubbles bigger, while failing to stimulate the real economy, most $ went into the construction industry) All bubbles pop, there is no exit strategy for QE... Recently watched "The Big Short" again and seriously history is repeating itself, so similar. Good luck to the people live in the "lucky country", keep doing what you believe is right, manage risks well (I know many family highly leveraged into investment properties), stay healthy stay sharp ;-) "The world is sinking, people ware partying." Housing "un"affordability will cause negative consequences for the society: psychological problems -> family problems -> community problems -> social problems. Politicians don't care, only focus on winning the next election, they they come and go, they've got their exit route well covered... NOTE: Recently Deirdré Straughan moved to Australia with Brendan Gregg, you may be interested to know some of the reasons behind the move, I assure you that will be good reads: https://www.beginningwithi.com/category/women-in-technology/ https://www.beginningwithi.com/category/women-in-technology/
twelvechairs 5y ago
Australia is still the same 'lucky country' written about over 50 years ago [0]. A second rate political and economic system survives on the back of huge unearned benefits - vast natural wealth, a comparatively small population, multi-culturalism, distant from war and most environmental issues, etc. The result is still a very attractive place - lots of resources, educated people, safe, little poverty comparatively, etc. But people take it for granted and its sleep walking into a Corporatocracy with fast growing wealth gap. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country
abrazame 5y ago
You're not the only one. Reading the news, I feel like a stranger in my own country. Australians don't share the values I thought we did. I'm leaving early next year. A surprising number of my friends are planning to leave soon too, particularly the highly skilled and employable ones.

King-Aaron 5y ago

After 34 years of being an Australian, the feeling is mutual.

6nf 5y ago
20 years in Sydney. I do not feel Australian any more.

desertraven 5y ago

I’m also here, and quite concerned. I’ve seen how quickly a country can erode (Syria, Ukraine, Hong Kong) and am questioning the future of this country.

gotts 5y ago
What do you mean by "country erode"?
- kodyo 5y ago
  From the context I think he meant “turn into a shithole.”
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Probably general stability and rise of authoritarianism.
  - gotts 5y ago
    How's that Ukraine(a country from that list) has authoritarianism on rise? Any verifiable metrics to prove it?
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Maybe GP refers Crimea, but it seems that it's not good to apply the case for Australia.
JimTheMan 5y ago
I guess I don't really follow the reasoning with the examples. Syria has always been a somewhat dangerous place. Ukraine got invaded by Russia. Hong Kong was taken from China by the British, became it's own nation and is currently being ... taken back against its own will in a sense. Not that it couldn't happen. But Australia is not really a place I would imagine a violent uprising happening compared to most other places. I think we have too much social cohesion, even between those who are politically opposed.

mdoms 5y ago

I lived in Australia for 5 years and my sense is that, as harsh as it sounds, Australia needs to go through an extreme hardship to wake up as a nation. Australia has lived true to its moniker as the Lucky Country - at least two full generations of Australians have never witnessed economic hardship or downturn of any kind. Natural disasters pass the nation by (other than wildfires). Even Covid looked like it was going to give Australia a miss until very recently. The populous of Australia are fat and happy, and therefore unbothered by the extremely worrying creeping authoritarianism, an economy teetering on total collapse and incompetent local governance. I had real Brave New World vibes living over there.

King-Aaron 5y ago
This is exactly my feeling. Aussies are constantly whinging about extreme first-world problems and are completely apathetic (or willfully ignorant) of what real hardship is. As a result the general population is blindly letting the government erode our rights and are too pre-occupied with their own lives to actually realise what's happening.
- vncecartersknee 5y ago
  "blindly letting the government erode our rights" what else are we supposed to do? how do you stop the government from doing that?
  - worik 5y ago
    Vote. Protest - particularly direct action Challenge them
    - mc32 5y ago
      In Australia people are compelled to vote, so the problem looks like the majority having a different take. Not that I agree with their votes, but you can’t say they don’t vote. Ultimately what is one supposed to do in a democracy (never mind Australia for a moment) when you’re just not part of the majority opinion on something?

toomuchtodo 5y ago

If you had to emigrate, what would your top 3 options be?

King-Aaron 5y ago
1. Antarctica 2. The moon 3. Mars
- 8note 5y ago
  What does the healthcare look like at these places? Is the climate habitable? Clean air?
  - speed_spread 5y ago
    Antarctica has clean air, cheaper healthcare than the US and is more habitable than Florida.
    - OneEyedRobot 5y ago
      Watch out for Antarctica Man.
rosege 5y ago
I've lived in Europe. Would probably go to Spain or Portugal.

brezelgoring 5y ago

So sad to hear that. Hope it goes well for you wherever you choose to go, although I don't think there are many places left that aren't like that, at least not any places that have an acceptable standard of living. Something about a city having a future at all makes the real estate vortex come to life. Know of a place? Tell me, dear reader, I'd love to hear it.

tacocataco 5y ago
Buy a used semi truck for $20k, buy a used refrigerator trailer. Renovate into your house.

colordrops 5y ago

You could do the following for almost every response in this particular thread and it would still be accurate: s/Australian?/US American?/g

tac0_ 5y ago

I feel you mate. Sad part is Australia has all the potential to have a really good future but the only thing missing is competent leadership. The liberal government continues to fuck up time and time again and the Murdoch press just turns a blind eye. Fucked up quarantine, fucked up vaccine rollout, fucked up climate policies, fucked up the news media bargaining code, and fucked up numerous policies just to prop up the housing market. And it'll be the younger generations that will certainly pay for these fuck ups. I really hope we have an early election and Australians choose Labor over Liberal this time.

lsiebert 5y ago
For US folks, The Liberal Party is Center Right and further to the left than the Republicans, Labor is Center Left and further to the left of the Democrats.
- jclulow 5y ago
  Under the current leadership the LNP inches closer to the GOP with each passing day, so, I don't expect they'll be perpetually to the left of the Republicans.
  - bogomipz 5y ago
    Sorry if this is a silly question but are the LP and the LNP the same party? When I try to look up LNP I see references to Queensland which confuses me if it's a national party. If not are they related?
    - stephen_g 5y ago
      Yeah, it's confusing. The federal parties are made up of state branches, and the state branches of the Nationals and Liberals merged in Queensland. Federally the two parties are in coalition, so it's basically the same anyway, even though they are technically different parties in the other states.
- Jedd 5y ago

lumost 5y ago

`It really feels sometimes that the only thing the average Australian cares about is the price of their property portfolio.` If this is the only accessible form of financial gain - why wouldn't they? I strongly suspect that in order to have a dynamic economy a weak housing market is a pre-requisite. Given the choice it's much easier to plunk money down in a house and watch cash magically appear than it is to start a business or do anything creative.

cgrealy 5y ago
>If this is the only accessible form of financial gain - why wouldn't they? It's not that they shouldn't care about their property portfolio, but it shouldn't be the only thing they care about. For example, the AU government has given away millions to polluters with no appreciable return (https://australiainstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/P357-Money-for-nothing_0.pdf https://australiainstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/12...). It also has a terrible track record on human rights. And that's just the last things I read... there's plenty more (this mandate for instance).
exporectomy 5y ago
Not in Australia but it's been kind of an insult to see my house earning more than the top tax bracket income I've been making from my one-man business for the past 3 years. Sometimes I wonder what the point of trying to earn money with work is. Of course it won't last, but it has a psychological demotivating effect.
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  Imagine how psychologically demotivated you would feel if you didn't have the property...
  - prawn 5y ago
    And were watching others' properties rise aggressively in price, and further out of your reach. I can imagine that many people feel quite helpless.

mlio 5y ago

I'm releasing a feature film exploring this in a few months (Aus ponzi economy, limited social mobility of next generation here). If anyone is interested in seeing please email hackernewsfilm@gmail and I'll keep you updated.

layoric 5y ago

Born in AU so bias is to stay, which leads me to push more for political change required to try to address these problems. Most of your 10 years has been under a particularly bad (and honestly corrupt) federal gov. Country has a large state capture problem from largely mining companies but also other special interests that have lobbied and . Anything that might threaten those interests is being pretty heavily targeted, including action on climate[0] (See "Gas led recovery", and the use of funds intended to renewables used for things like CCS/CCUS and "blue" hydrogen.). And this is bleeding into laws and enforcement. Then there is the constant resistance to a federal anti-corruption agency as well as reducing the influence of money on federal politicians (see backbencher/ministers resolving door with lobbying firms). The conclusion I've (sadly) come to, is that (in the short term at least) more money needs to be thrown at smaller parties and independents to try to combat this. Unlike the USA, Australia has precedent of minority governments and compulsory voting combined with a preference system means that gaining even a small number of lower house/senate seats can make a disproportional impact to the policies being set around Australia. Both major parties are so similar but just switching from Blue to Red is unlikely to result significant change in policies for some of the issues you've raised. [0] https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/wa-counter-terrorism-police-raid-climate-activists-homes-over-chalk-graffiti-20210820-p58kn0.html https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/wa-cou...

WalterBright 5y ago
> compulsory voting This always seemed like madness to me. You can force someone to vote, but you cannot force them to vote responsibly. They may just vote "screw you" just for revenge. The right to vote includes the right to abstain from voting when one does not care. Forced voting sounds like a recipe for bad election results. I would expect the same from paying people to vote.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > I would expect the same from paying people to vote. That's already the case pretty much everywhere since populists promise benefits to whoever elects them. So de facto you are getting paid for your vote if you are in a special interest group.

smcleod 5y ago

Almost 11 years in Melbourne (from NZ) and I couldn't agree more. The 220~ days (and counting) that Melbourne has been in lockdown has certainly worn me down, but even before C19 the political climate, attitude towards technology, cost of housing and the impact of increasing bushfires has taken an enormous toll on the country over the past decade that I've been here.

fhe 5y ago
How would you compare NZ with Australia? What are the big differences you noticed? Thanks.
- girvo 5y ago
  I'm a Kiwi who's lived in Australia for two thirds of my life. New Zealand's economy and cost-of-living is markedly weaker and higher than Australia's; the property-is-the-only-investment idea is somehow even worse in NZ, at least lately The day-to-day life in NZ is lovely though. At least where I'm from in Northland. Australia and NZ are more similar than they are different, I feel.
- potatochup 5y ago
  My hot take: (lived in NZ, Aus, NL and USA) Both places are are similar in that: - They have good access to nature/beaches - Property prices are nuts, most people see property as their primary investment vehicle. This is a big cause of wealth inequality - general populace has a relatively easygoing disposition Aus has better weather (assuming you like warm and sunny), higher salaries and is somewhat less far from the world if you want to travel NZ has a better human rights record, much cleaner grid, and doesn't seem to have the authoritarian bent that Aus does. It's like the slightly hippie/socialist/woke little sibling.
  - desertraven 5y ago
    Could you add NL and USA to your comparison by any chance? Just curious.

cletus 5y ago

So I'm Australian but from the part no one ever visits (ie Perth). I say this because for most visitors Australia = Sydney, maybe Melbourne. Anyway, I've gone to live overseas a couple of times now. The most recent time was to the US 11 years ago. I'm still here. As many problems as the US has, the one big selling point it has is career opportunities and earning potential as a software engineer. Like... it doesn't even come close. I'll take what my US compensation buys me in NYC over whatever compensation I could get buys me in Sydney (in particular). Property in Australia is like a game of musical chairs but the music stopped in Sydney in 1978 (in Perth and Melbourne it was more like 2003). One thing I like about the US tax system is there is no negative gearing (mostly). Specifically if you earn over a certain amount ($150k but it starts sliding down at $100k) then you can't offset ordinary taxes with passive losses. I really think Australia desperately needs this system but negative gearing is so ingrained in Australian culture now that it's political suicide to try and change it. I believe Labor made noises about this in a recent Federal election and suffered the consequences. It's a shame because Perth and even Melbourne used to have a relatively low cost-of-living and high quality-of-life. I honestly don't know how anyone does it now. As for the politics, it's a bit of a mixed bag. Australia doesn't have the crazy evangelicals that the US does, for example. Like when the gay marriage issue was decided even the highly conservative former PM Tony Abbott basically came out and said the matter was settled and it's time to move on. As for climate change, while I believe in it I also don't think anything will change out of pure altruism by any large group of people. And that's anywhere. It's not unique to Australia. Look at what's happened to the price of solar in the last decade. I'd say the ugliest side of Australian politics and culture in general is actually the treatment of refugees and the so-called (this name still sends shivers down my spine) Pacific Solution. Oh and we can't forget Australia's most pustulent export: Rupert Murdoch.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> Like when the gay marriage issue was decided even the highly conservative former PM Tony Abbott basically came out and said the matter was settled and it's time to move on. Australia recognized same sex marriage in 2017. That was 3 years after after the USA did. I'm not sure I would call Australia as being progressive by that measure.

billiam 5y ago

might not want to hear this as an adoptive Aussie, but two words, mate: New Zealand.

LAC-Tech 5y ago
The GPs issues were An undiversified export economy, out of control house prices, a job-market primarily focused on two cities, a government intent on selling all public assets, very limited political interest in positive climate policies. The latter is simply addressed with "technology will help us out when we need it to". And you suggest New Zealand?! - Australian housing is a bargain compared to NZ ones. - NZs job market is focused on one city, which is smaller, more expensive, lower wages and more crime than Brisbane or Perth. There's a reason so many New Zealanders live in Australia and not vice versa.

apatheticonion 5y ago

Moved to Sydney from New Zealand and have been here for 6 years. I do like it here compared to New Zealand but I think I would move elsewhere given the chance. The internet here is an actual joke, the politics are biased towards conservatism, don't think about owning an electric car but... the pay is quite good and it's a nice place to go out. Lots of nature and you can find nice apartments to rent if you look. New Zealand by comparison is great but it's remote, expensive and has a low salary when compared to other western countries. It has been a while since I was there last, but public transport is hilariously bad - but if you enjoy nature and silence, it's there in abundance. My company has offered to relocate me to NYC, which is interesting. Looking on YouTube at what the city looks like and it's pretty ugly if I am honest. Apartments seem to be small and you don't get modern style apartments even 45 minutes from Manhattan via public transport. I am concerned that my lifestyle would suffer living there. Hey Canada, how you doing?

rapind 5y ago
Hey, this is Canada. We're in a housing bubble. Sorry 'bout that.
nunb 5y ago
Not so good with out of control house prices, fueled by safe-haven demand … at least we won’t run out of freshwater as fast as Oz will … still, Mosman is heaps above Kits / Point Grey in my opinion! NYC is really a dump though. West Coast is the best coast! If you’re from NZ you will likely love the areas around Vancouver, Whistler & Victoria BC!
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CydeWeys 5y ago
> My company has offered to relocate me to NYC, which is interesting. Looking on YouTube at what the city looks like and it's pretty ugly if I am honest. This is a great opportunity that you'd be silly to pass up because of some YouTube videos. You have to at least visit in person to give it a fair shot. NYC is the largest city in any western country. I guarantee you can find parts of it you'd like. > Hey Canada, how you doing? Pay in tech is way, way higher in NYC than in Canada.

cenophor 5y ago

> It really feels sometimes that the only thing the average Australian cares about is the price of their property portfolio. Maybe the sample average of the people you hang around is quite different from the population average. The average Australian can't even afford to have a property portfolio, let alone caring about one.

joelbondurant 5y ago

Kill Kill Kill without mercy.

Waterluvian 5y ago

For what it’s worth, you could substitute Canada or countless other nations and say all the same things.

samstave 5y ago

I recall readinga book when I was young, it was all about a nuclear war - and the perspective of the characters was that AU was the last bastion of humanity to survive... and went on to talk about how the people were able to survive there... So dystopian weird idea follows: What if "they" are 'cleansing' Australia to make it clear for the oligarch elites to come in and claim the land! :-)

samstave 5y ago
It would be wonderful if HN had an ear for SCI-FI ideas as opposed to taking every gosh darn thing literally... I understand the need to keep some "thought-bumpers" to prevent reddit-ization of HN (ironic given that HN is the seed of Reddit) -- but FFS lighten the heck up.

Gatsky 5y ago

This is one view... but I suspect most people living somewhere that is a proper city as opposed to a resort would say similar things. Net migration rate provides a more objective view of whether a country has an 'average future'. If you look at the global net migration rates, Australia and particularly the capital cities have some of the highest rates in the world, despite being far away from anywhere. The factors driving this may not align at all with what you personally want from a country or a city, which is fair enough. But your comment seems like quite a generalisation to make from a very specific position.

stephen_g 5y ago

The next election is critical, I think. Need a minority Labor Government with a strong crossbench - neither major party ruling in their own right will make any moves in the right direction for the country at this point...

gonzo41 5y ago
We need a labor government to call a royal commission into Murdoch's influence in Australian politics. Truth in media laws and the immigration minister needs to revoke Australian citizenships of a few people in those orgs who could rightly be considered malicious non stat actors.

locusm 5y ago

Spot fucking on.

moneywoes 5y ago

Sounds like Canada

eru 5y ago

Out of all the things you mention, privatizing government owned assets it actually a good thing. Or at least it can be a good thing, as long as the process ain't mismanaged too badly. Governments seldom do the simplest thing of just auctioning off eg a state-owned business or plot of land to the highest bidder. Most of the time they insists on beauty contests where politicians want to judge bidders' plans. That's a recipe for corruption and cronyism. Or they only sell off eg a business piecemeal, making a turnaround in private hands much harder.

terrywang 5y ago

This is going to happen sooner or later, the pandemic accelerated it, exploiting and abusing the liberty of people will be the new norm - 1984. Observation: at least in NSW it seems that most people trust the government and cooperate with government orders (Digital Tran formation for public service is on the right track, see the delivery of digital driver licence and all other perks and all other self-service integrated services, at the cost of giving up some personal info and privacy (state government says that we can trust them for securing the data/info)... I have been living in Sydney, Australia since 2008. Agree that country is facing tough and worrying economic outlook for the 2020's. It was seriously `lucky country` (mining boom, Rise of China, etc.) when I first landed in SYD, however, with the deterioration of Australia-China relationship, and the undiversified economy structure (mining, education, tourism, etc.), the "lucky country" is going downhill towards the "luckin coffee" direction LMAO. The country is run by politicians holding law and/or accounting degrees with no social responsibility or morals (in comparison with Germany and northern Europe), who are good at making taxation (or similar) laws but with no vision for the country's future (geopolitical influence, economy, etc.). Most people underestimate the stupidity of government and central banks, keep printing $ (QE) and pump the money to the banking system, making the asset bubbles bigger, while failing to stimulate the real economy, most $ went into the construction industry) All bubbles pop, there is no exit strategy for QE... Recently watched "The Big Short" again and seriously history is repeating itself, so similar. Good luck to the people live in the "lucky country", keep doing what you believe is right, manage risks well (I know many family highly leveraged into investment properties), stay healthy stay sharp ;-) "The world is sinking, people ware partying." Housing "un"affordability will cause negative consequences for the society: psychological problems -> family problems -> community problems -> social problems. Politicians don't care, only focus on winning the next election, they they come and go, they've got their exit route well covered... NOTE: Recently Deirdré Straughan moved to Australia with Brendan Gregg, you may be interested to know some of the reasons behind the move, I assure you that will be good reads: https://www.beginningwithi.com/category/women-in-technology/ https://www.beginningwithi.com/category/women-in-technology/

twelvechairs 5y ago

Australia is still the same 'lucky country' written about over 50 years ago [0]. A second rate political and economic system survives on the back of huge unearned benefits - vast natural wealth, a comparatively small population, multi-culturalism, distant from war and most environmental issues, etc. The result is still a very attractive place - lots of resources, educated people, safe, little poverty comparatively, etc. But people take it for granted and its sleep walking into a Corporatocracy with fast growing wealth gap. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country

abrazame 5y ago

You're not the only one. Reading the news, I feel like a stranger in my own country. Australians don't share the values I thought we did. I'm leaving early next year. A surprising number of my friends are planning to leave soon too, particularly the highly skilled and employable ones.