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California exodus is a myth, UC research project finds
- colllectorof 5y agoGaslighers gonna gaslight. You don't need a Ph.D. to see this "research" was guided by motivated reasoning rather than genuine desire to figure out what is going on.
- diamond559 5y agoWhat makes you say that, did you read the paper and find flaws in their methodology? Or does it disagree with your preconceived narrative and dismiss it out of hand?
- peytn 5y agoI read the UC San Diego summary. As far as I can tell, their data is from an online poll. It’s well-known that online poll respondents are generally more interested in politics than average. It stands to reason that those considering leaving California may be much less interested in politics and thus undersampled. I didn’t see this potential sampling issue addressed in their write-up, though I’m a layman unfamiliar with the polling methodology they’ve used.
- stevespang 5y agoI call B.S.on the data. More than 50% of all the Real Estate sales on some of the highest value properties in Austin area (lake Travis waterfront) are all being taken by Californians, I have personal knowledge of it.
- handmodel 5y ago- The article says that "millionaire flight" out of California is a myth. This is mostly true and a good point. - However, the article/research looks at outflow and doesn't find a trend but this is bad methodology. It looks like they are not factoring in the fact that less people are moving into California then had been previously even if the rate moving out isn't too different. It almost feels intentional given how clean and well-covered the data is on that. This opening paragraph is good >Every year from 2000 through 2015, more people left California than moved in from other states. This migration was not spread evenly across all income groups, a Sacramento Bee review of U.S. Census Bureau data found. The people leaving tend to be relatively poor, and many lack college degrees. Move higher up the income spectrum, and slightly more people are coming than going. Source: https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article136478098.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article136478098.html
- xadhominemx 5y agoThe myth (repeated endlessly here and elsewhere) is that high taxes and excessive commercial regulation are driving wealthy founders and other knowledge workers out of California. The truth is that high housing prices are driving low and middle income households out of the state.
- Retric 5y agoCalifornia has much lower housing costs outside of major cities. It’s exodus is seen as unusual simply because it’s a a populous state, but rate wise it’s hardly unusual. IMO, people leaving California in large numbers is also a function of how many people move into the state because people who moved long distances once are more likely to move again. As 2020 was a serious outlier I am sticking with U.S. states by net domestic migration (From July 1, 2018 to July 1, 2019): Net domestic migration rate per 1,000 inhabitants: Alaska −12.96, Hawaii −9.76, New York −9.29, Illinois −8.28, Connecticut −6.19, Louisiana −5.60, New Jersey −5.51, California −5.15, skipping several places Delaware 7.15, South Carolina 10.30, Arizona 12.50, Nevada 14.03, Idaho 15.31. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... It’s the territories that are seeing the fastest changes. American Samoa –26.1, Guam –11.0, Northern Mariana Islands –15.4, Puerto Rico –14.1, U.S. Virgin Islands –7.5
- xadhominemx 5y agoSuburban and housing costs in California are very high by national standards. Is your argument that the people who are moving out of California overwhelmingly non-native Californians?
- Retric 5y agoI clarified, I am saying the net migration from California is hardly unusual as a percentage of the population. However, the magnitude of exodus is a function of both the size of the state and the number of people who recently moved to California. It’s not that an overwhelming percentage of people leaving recently moved in, but they do represent a larger percentage of people moving out which is normal.
- rayiner 5y agoCareful framing of the purported “myth” is critical: > For one, while residents are moving out of state, they are not doing so at "unusual rates." Similarly, the research found no evidence of "millionaire flight" from California and notes that the state continues to attract as much venture capital as all other U.S. states combined, despite the recent exodus of Hewlett-Packard and Oracle. Who is saying California is unattractive for rich people and venture capital? The people leaving are middle and lower income people.
- deregulateMed 5y agoAnd these people will be replaced by less experienced or less talented workers. I recently heard a low performer get hired at a FAANG company and wondered how this person managed to trick that company into hiring him.
- fumar 5y agoIs this satire? If it is, spot-on commentary.
- BitwiseFool 5y agoMaybe he was a sacrificial hire? Aren't some managers expected to cull the lowest relative performers every year?
- haswell 5y ago> Who is saying California is unattractive for rich people and venture capital? One potential source: this is a popular conservative talking point about the dangers of liberal government, and the "exodus" is often used as evidence to justify those talking points. "See, just look at California, they implemented <liberal policy I hate>, and everyone is leaving the state". This kind of viewpoint is rampant on places like /r/conservative, and is often followed by similar mischaracterizations of life in Chicago. This always fascinates me - it seems like people are actually excited about the perceived negative forces driving people out, because they feel it validates their viewpoints about certain policies, even when the evidence to support correlation (never mind causation) doesn’t seem to exist. I haven’t encountered much serious discourse about California being unattractive to people with means. Edit: I’ve upset some folks with this comment. I’m curious to know how/why.
- labster 5y agoHousing is the real problem. I still live in the neighborhood where I grew up in Southern California. Back when I was a kid, we used to have street gangs, but they’ve all been gentrified out. They’re putting up a new housing complex in my neighborhood, and I learned that I qualify for the affordable housing units on a senior developer salary, because it’s below the median income.
- zwieback 5y agoWow, so much good info in two lines of comment, love it. What you don't mention is whether you inherited or at least live in your family home. A lot of my in-laws have lived in Palo Alto way before the boom times but are considering leaving when they retire, at that point the upsides of staying are suddenly a lot less.
- jseliger 5y agoThey’re putting up a new housing complex in my neighborhood At least the neighborhood is allowing some amount of new housing supply, however minor, as that additional supply is vital for affordability: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/theres-no-such-thing-luxury-housing/618548/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/theres-no-...
- BitwiseFool 5y ago"The thing I have noticed is when the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There's something wrong with the way you are measuring it." - Jeff Bezos This is a tricky article because I can tell it's using the term 'exodus' and 'myth' differently than I would. It's abundantly clear there is a lot of migration out of California. Just ask Texans, Coloradans, and Idahoans.
- freedomben 5y agoIdahoan here, previously lived in Utah. Just adding to your point. Both Idaho and Utah are becoming inundated with people from California. It's mind boggling how hard it is to find housing here. When we bought our last house we were repeatedly outbid by cash offers from California buyers. In my current neighborhood there have been 7 families that moved in during the last 12 months. One (us) from Utah, one from Texas, and the other 5 were from California.
- tjr225 5y ago40 million people live in California. That’s more than any other state by about 10 million. That’s also nearly almost a sixth of our entire country. Everyone everywhere in this country feels like it is getting inundated by Californians. Some more than others, sure. I can see two or three cars with Cali plates right now from my stoop. More people will always be from there. I suspect this has been happening for a long time and just now for some reason people are noticing.
- antonvs 5y ago> That’s also nearly almost a sixth of our entire country. Not quite. It's nearly an eighth.
- tolbish 5y agoHave you considered that this is a national problem? Californians are snatching up the affordable homes in Utah because others from around the country are snatching up the affordable homes in California.
- commiepatrol 5y agoyou're right, none of my friends have moved out of CA ;)
- Tempest1981 5y agoHere is another article with a chart: https://calmatters.org/politics/2021/05/california-population-shrink-exodus/ https://calmatters.org/politics/2021/05/california-populatio... It shows a population decrease of around 0.5% in 2020. Probably won't put much of a dent in traffic or housing costs, even if it continues for 10 years. But I still have fond memories of the 1990s, when things were more sane.
- cjsplat 5y agoUS census data says about 650k people left California between 2018 and 2019, out of a population of 39M, or 1.6% In dramatic contrast, in Texas, 450k left out of 28M, or 1.6% Nationwide, 7 million people changed states out of 324 M, or 2.1% https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geograph...
- Forge36 5y agoI think the myth is self sustaining. 200,000 more people leaving than Texas makes California look 50% worse. Ignoring the larger population is easy/accidental in many discussions.
- SavantIdiot 5y agoThanks for posting real data.
- spoonjim 5y agoWhat about the inflows to each?
- Acrobatic_Road 5y agoThis guy has read "How to lie with statistics".
- koheripbal 5y agoPart of the problem is that when it comes to the wellbeing of a state, financially, one person is != to one person. If corporations and highly-skilled/high-earning labor are moving out, and low-skill/immigrant labor is moving in, then you develop a major fiscal tax revenue gap that has to support more low-income neighborhoods with the tax revenue from fewer and fewer corporations and high tax individuals. It can also have a snowball effect where people try to sell their homes before home prices fall further, or try to establish residency elsewhere before taxes are raised more. In a way, the more we talk about it, the worse it can get. I suppose that's why the denials are so vocal.
- fumar 5y agoI am a recent transplant to Southern California. In my experience, educated peers are moving to or searching for cities that provide good value based on their fiscal position. Some of them are moving to NYC or LA metros. Others are looking at Raleigh or Denver and a few Austin. What sticks out to me is how many people are relocating en masse at almost the same time.
- kasey_junk 5y agoAre you a recent transplant due to a life event like college graduation or the like? If so the correlative nature of your peers is likely not that actually interesting from a broad social perspective.
- fumar 5y agoWhy would you assume that? Without providing too much personal detail. I am 10 years+ of out undergrad, work for a large tech company, own property, and originally from the midwest. I consider my peer group diverse as I am a minority who grew up in a low income area but found success in college and consequently in my career.
- kasey_junk 5y agoI just mean that there are certain events that happen in clusters around your peer group (graduation, marriage, kids, divorce, retirement, etc) that will appear as a pattern to you (and me) that are not actually clustered in the broader population that may drive the trends you see.
- maxclark 5y ago“Other findings in the UC San Diego survey of more than 3,000 respondents include” I really hate polling and surveys.
- Rebelgecko 5y agoOn top of that, it seems questionable to use a survey from this year to show that fewer people are considering leaving California. Can't that just be survivorship bias? Maybe fewer people are considering leaving California because so many already left. This seems consistent with the states own numbers for 2020, which show that more people left CA than migrated in.
- plank_time 5y agoI know several that have left for Texas. I know one that left for Michigan. One that left for San Diego. A few that left for Seattle. So it’s very real. Whether or not it moves the needle though is the bigger question. I myself would never move unless some sort of environmental catastrophe hit it, like forest fires or no more water which is actually a possibility.
- BrainlingPdx 5y agoAnecdotes are not statistical facts. Did you read the story? It clearly shows that statistically, no, it's not real.
- chmod600 5y agoThere could be interesting trends around subgroups that aren't obvious from population-level stats.
- hondo77 5y agoYou do know that San Diego is in California, right?
- Rebelgecko 5y agoThere's also one in Texas
- deep-root 5y agoA "back of the napkin" calculation seems to indicate there is no mass exodus. On mobile, but here is the typical annual CA pop change stats for the past decade, give or take: --Incoming-- - 400K domestic immigrants[1] - 180-200K international immigrants[2] - 450K births[4] Subtotal: ~1.1M --Outgoing-- - 600K domestic emigrants[1] - 250K deaths[4] - ?? intl emigrants (anyone know?) Subtotal: ~850K Typical annual net change: +250K (California grew 2.4M from 2010-2020[3]) California shrank in 2020 for the first time in decades seemingly because: - 50-80K excess deaths - 180-200K less intl immigration - 50K fewer births That's already a loss of 300K people as a one-time event, and the state is down 450K from a typical year. It's easy to come up with another 150K, it's a trivial not "mass exodus" number. But possibly a lot of those who left were missed in statistics. [1] https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265 https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265 [2] https://www.ppic.org/publication/immigrants-in-california/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/immigrants-in-california/ [3] https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-population/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-population/ [4] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/state-and-territorial-data.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/state-and-territorial-data.... Edit: learning to format...
- acenes 5y agoSorry, but "back of the napkin" calculations are quick order-of-magnitude type estimates based on reasonable guesses or first principles, not by looking up numbers on the web (napkin not big enough to write out URLs; maybe use envelope)
- jayd16 5y agoNot sure why this myth got any traction. It's not like housing prices are going down.
- wolverine876 5y agoI'm a bit confused: Doesn't everyone know it's a popular political narrative pushed by a certain political faction?
- chrisco255 5y agoThey're not going down in any state right now. There are some macroeconomic reasons for that, but that's out of scope.
- refurb 5y agoCondo prices certainly dropped in SF.
- okareaman 5y agoAs a native Californian, I'd be fine with more people moving out of California, especially the coastal areas. The surf spots are overcrowded compared to the days when I had the waves to myself. Then there's this: California man blasts Texas 'dystopia' in Op-Ed after moving to Austin https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifestyle/travel-outdoors/article/California-man-blasts-Texas-dystopia-in-Op-Ed-15887614.php https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifestyle/travel-outdoors/artic...
- KingMachiavelli 5y agoThe California 'exodus' is more of a mass immigration into certain desirable areas in the US. These cities & even states have populations smaller than individual suburbs of LA so Californians tend to stand out; especially when they complain and want to change the places they move to.
- okareaman 5y agoA while ago I moved to Medford Oregon for a couple of years and the hostility towards Californians was real. Someone I know moved to Southern Oregon recently and it's a little better, primarily because there are a lot of Californians there enjoying great property values and no sales tax.
- toast0 5y agoWhere I moved in the Pacific North West, the most hostility comes from the people who moved here 15-20 years ago, often from California too. Although, some of them are pretty chill. Most of the people with deep roots are pretty chill too, but I have run into a amall handful of extra grumpy people.
- olegious 5y agoAs someone that made the move from California to the Austin area- I don't regret it for a second.
- burlesona 5y agoHe didn’t move to Austin, he moved to Bee Cave. Huge difference. In Texas the inner cities are like a different world from the suburban and rural areas. (I say this having lived in both SF and Austin.)
- CodeWriter23 5y agoGuess the census count, which caused this is also a myth https://apnews.com/article/census-2020-government-and-politics-california-dd4a4f3ce3070231b0aecdc1cac3e97b https://apnews.com/article/census-2020-government-and-politi...
- fshbbdssbbgdd 5y agoThe article you linked here says California’s population increased between the 2010 and 2020 census. The state lost a congressional district because other states grew faster.
- partiallypro 5y agoDoesn't that prove the point though? Immigration into the state has clearly decreased.
- kelnos 5y agoNot really. An "exodus" implies a -- large -- net decrease in population. Decreased growth is not an exodus, even if it's driven more by people leaving than fewer people arriving.
- jandrese 5y agoCalifornia was also hit fairly hard by some of the changes to procedures for the 2020 census. It was likely undercounted compared to 2010.
- wolverine876 5y agoFrom another source, about people leaving San Francisco: * "Among the 50 most populous U.S. cities, 15 shrunk during the pandemic" Top three: 1) Baltimore (-1.42%), 2) San Francisco (-1.39%), 3) San Jose (-1.3%) * Of people leaving SF: 72% moved elsewhere in the Bay area, ~20% moved elsewhere in California. The next most popular destination was Washington state, the majority going to Seattle. Source: https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/Only-one-U-S-city-saw-a-bigger-pandemic-exodus-16258720.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/Only-one-U-S-city-...
- kelnos 5y agoThat's actually much smaller than I expected for SF. 1.39% isn't really a lot at all; even in absolute number terms it's something on the order of 10,000 people.
- peytn 5y agoThe few people I know who’ve moved still “live” there to avoid taking a hit on compensation at review time and just changed their mailing address to a friend’s place or something.
- refurb 5y agoYup. That data suggesting they moved elsewhere in CA is based on USPS change of address requests. Friends I know who left the state (or country) used a friends kr family’s address.
- 0xF57A 5y agoI think people need to reconcile with the fact that California is for people who have very high power careers or are career protected. Either that or work in service. It was too good to last very long. Just move somewhere else and embrace the weirdness.
- Apocryphon 5y agoInteresting study - Californian migration drives up real estate prices far more than migration from other states (6:42): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No2huXVqzZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No2huXVqzZk
- Proven 5y ago> only 23% of California voters said they were seriously considering leaving the state Is that supposed to be good news? > Affluent Californians were actually more satisfied with the direction the state is going Detached and delusional. After making 5 mil on stock options in recent weeks, the Pelosis must be very satisfied with California. I guess it's justified in some cases. > and very likely to believe it will be better when their children grow up Seriously? Homelessness, looting and disorder are 3rd world style.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- fnord77 5y agoI always suspected it was right-wing news show fantasy - "look how bad that liberal city is - people are leaving!"
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y agoI was just thinking a few days ago (while on a van trip to Yosemite) that one of the great things about moving to CA would be never hearing complaining about Californians moving there and ruining the place.
- doitLP 5y agoWell as someone moving out of California I’m having a hard time finding a moving truck, even 3 months out. uHaul and Ryder are having a hard time fulfilling demand because so many trucks are leaving California and so few are coming back.
- toast0 5y agoThere's also a lot of demand for moving trucks being used locally as delivery vehicles, since there's a surge in deliveries. Usually not the big trucks, but when a delivery service rents a small truck or van, someone who was going to rent that to move has to rent something bigger. It's riskier, but you might see if you can buy a used moving truck and plan to sell it at the destination. I've seen a few reports of people doing that with good results, although I can imagine many ways it might go bad. Or pod style boxes, or load a trailer and a trucking line drops it off at the new place might have better availability.
- kelnos 5y agoI've also heard of people renting the smaller (and even some of the larger) moving vans/trucks because they want to rent a car, but car rental services have crazy low inventory due to a lot of shedding they had to do during the pandemic. It seems crazy to rent a box truck just to be able to drive around town (parking has to be a nightmare), but people are doing it, or so I've heard, at least.
- peytn 5y agoThe pod-style boxes had an even greater rate imbalance in my experience a few months ago. In fact, I couldn’t even get a pod from PODS and had to use a different company.
- kbrackbill 5y agoI recently had to do this (oakland -> vegas) and was able to get a Budget truck a few weeks out. I paid a lot but it worked out at least.
- drak0n1c 5y agoYou may find luck with Estes Sure Move. They provide a commercial truck trailer that they truck for you and you save money the less space you use in it (they fill the rest with commercial shipping). I used them to leave the Seattle and they were significantly cheaper than the competition.
- treeman79 5y agohttps://www.bluemountaineagle.com/life/national/mass-exodus-causes-u-haul-shortage/article_fe319862-3df0-5dea-9f50-00310b7e798f.html https://www.bluemountaineagle.com/life/national/mass-exodus-... How about the cost of moving vans? Last I heard it was much cheaper to take trucks to California then the other way.
- bsagdiyev 5y agoAs of January it still was. We locked in $400 for a trailer from San Diego -> Raleigh last year, but on our trip across I tried to add another day and the price was around $1000 because we would lose the guaranteed price I locked in last year before we left. As a lifelong Californian it really sucked making that choice, but the state is getting too expensive and a little over the top politically for me. Maybe we’ll return home one day…
- eplanit 5y agoUniversity of California doing "studies" to defend the state of California...right before a recall election of the Governor -- color me skeptical. I personally know > 10 people who have left (in disgust) in the past 2 years. I have a sister in Texas who is getting personally wealthy selling houses to Californians moving there. She's been selling for > 30 years and has never seen an influx like this from a single state, ever. California even lost a seat in the US Congress due to population decline.[1] [1] https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-04-26/census-data-redistricting-delay https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-04-26/census-dat...
- benrbray 5y ago> University of California doing "studies" to defend the state of California Ok, but who is "allowed" to study the state of California? By your reasoning, * If UC does a study on California, we can't believe what they say because they have an incentive to paint CA in only the best light. * If, say, the New York Times publishes an article on California, we can't believe what they say because they have an incentive to show readers that NY is a much better state to live in than CA. Clearly, this is crazy. People also complain that the UC system has a "liberal bias" when research comes out that paints California's housing policy as racist / classist. So which is it? UC is biased for CA? Against CA? The answer is that the state of California is home to 40 million people with a wide spectrum of beliefs and motivations. You need to look at the individual groups producing this research, and look at where their incentives lie, where they get their money from, and whether their record demonstrates integrity.
- diamond559 5y agoPretty big and unsubstantiated claim to say that the UC system is working to reelect Newsom. Nice anecdotal evidence too, quality post...
- someonehere 5y agoThere was a point before the pandemic that here in SF the U-Haul off of Paul St was out of trucks and trailers. For weeks if not months at a time.
- minikites 5y ago>Similarly, the research found no evidence of "millionaire flight" from California and notes that the state continues to attract as much venture capital as all other U.S. states combined, despite the recent exodus of Hewlett-Packard and Oracle. People won't even move states within the same country because of taxes, meaning they certainly won't leave the country if federal taxes were raised (a common argument against raising taxes). Therefore, we should dramatically raise taxes on the very wealthy and actually put that money to use improving society instead of letting a handful of billionaires uselessly hoard it. They're not going anywhere.
- kbrackbill 5y agoOne thing I'm interested in is, regardless of whether more californians are leaving or not, are californians driving up housing prices in the various obvious targets (oregon, idaho, montana, colorado, nevada)? I'm part of the "exodus" in that earlier this year I finally bailed on the bay area after living there my whole life for vegas, and the cost to buy a house here seems insane compared to renting and to similarly remote cities. Housing prices in the stereotypical california exodus places like Portland and Austin seem similarly wild. If californian emigration isn't responsible, then what is? Is it all just general demand for urban housing and are californians just a scapegoat?
- kelnos 5y agoJust one data point, but a friend of mine who lives in Boulder, CO tells me that home prices have gone up a lot in the last year or so, and his belief is it's largely driven by people leaving CA. Might not be the full cause though.
- mixmastamyk 5y agoMain reason is the fed printed trillions and folks are looking to get out of cash. Assets are up everywhere.
- burlesona 5y agoI experienced this too. Left SF and moved to Austin in 2020. Home prices have shot up 20% in less than a year. It’s such a sharp jump that I’d say Austin is not really that affordable anymore.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- kentlyons 5y agoThis has links to several of the original reports and surveys: https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/press-room/uc-studies-contrary-popular-belief-residents-are-not-fleeing-california https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/press-room/uc-studies...
- thayne 5y agoWell, there is certainly an increase in immigrants from California to my area.
- camhenlin 5y agoIt may be a myth, but here in Southern Oregon, I have several new Californian neighbors that I got over the last year, where in previous years most of my newer neighbors have been other Oregonians.
- reilly3000 5y agoI wouldn’t call it a myth so much as a trope from conservative disinformation outlets. It fits better into the realm of demagoguery than demography.
- fred_is_fred 5y agoColorado here - please check the math.
- Trias11 5y ago"Similarly, the research found no evidence of millionaire flight from California...". This nonsense is clearly peddled by local politicians trying to save their faces. I moved from CA to Vegas which automatically boosted my income by +10%. With covid times where major employers allowing people work from home - this is logical move for tens of thousands of people. No houses for sale in decent Vegas neighborhoods here, mostly hunted by people from CA. My millionaire friend sold his beloved house and moved to NV as well. Lots of people i know moving to TX, FL or NV. Raising taxes, new taxes, stupid liberal policies stimulating crime and filth, unhealthy political climate, corrupt and uncapable governor. The list goes on. En masse or not - the tendency is there.
- kelnos 5y agoYour anecdotes are not data. This research paper is, and I expect it's a lot more representative than your anecdotes are.
- Trias11 5y agoThese are my real life experiences and real life observations. You can swallow whatever illusion you being fed by your local politician, close your eyes and assume it's a reality. You're intended audience. Tens of thousands of former californians ain't buying more of their taxes and neither more of their BS any more. Where voting with hands doesn't help - people are voting with their feet.
- kelnos 5y agoI'm not arguing that your real-life experiences aren't real, just that they may not be representative. My lived experience is somewhere in the middle: I've seen some high earners leave, but more high earners stay. Based on this study, it seems my experience might be more representative of the whole. Also not sure why you're taking this combative, condescending tone. Seems like you have an axe to grind and are emotionally attached to your position for some reason. But it does seem like you weren't happy in CA, so I'm glad you've found a place to live where you're happier.
- 5y ago
- dboreham 5y agoI left 20 years ago, mostly for quality of life and cost of living reasons. But I still visit often. Taxes are O(the same) where I moved to. A bit lower but not so much as to be decisive.
- rcpt 5y agoThe baseline shouldn't be zero growth. Over the past few decades California has seen one of the largest economic booms in history yet population has barely budged. That in itself should indicate a problem but for some reason people need to see housing get so fucked that workers are giving up on their jobs and moving away at such a rate that population declines before they'll admit something is wrong
- mrwww 5y agobut... joe rogan left?
- urnotwelco 5y agoA question for everybody who came to California to get rich and wont stop complaining: Can I help you pack so you can get out of my home and shut up? We get it. You hate us. We dont care, just shut up. 100 posts every day about how awful california’s politics are. We get it. Please shut your trump loving yuppy asses up and leave.
- shard972 5y agono, we hate you
- urnotwelco 5y agoBye felicia
- DevKoala 5y agoYou created a new account just for this comment?
- urnotwelco 5y agoFrom the bottom of my heart, thank you for leaving.
- urnotwelco 5y agoFrom the bottom of my heart, thank you for moving. Please don’t come back.
- urnotwelco 5y agoHey i just wanted to say thanks for leaving my home. You are very welcome not to come back!
- urnotwelco 5y agoBye felicia!
- urnotwelco 5y agoNo tagbacks, you aren’t welcome back, jack. Stay in texas please.
- urnotwelco 5y agoThanks for leaving! Please don’t come back.
- kevinpet 5y ago"In fact, only 23% of California voters said they were seriously considering leaving the state, which is lower than the 24% who said the same in a 2019 survey conducted by UC Berkeley." That's because we already left, so we're no longer in their survey population. When I moved out of California, a uhaul was ten times as expensive going from SF to Phoenix as vice versa. When a survey or research project contradicts market prices, believe the market prices. Rates now are $400 AZ->CA, and $2500 CA->AZ.
- bsagdiyev 5y agoYeah, when we left earlier this year the U-Haul prices were insane. We got lucky and managed a trailer cross country for $400 but the price jumped to almost $1000 if we added another day since we would lose the locked in price we originally got.
- JohnClark1337 5y agoGood to see California is doing fine