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When I stated working remote (long before the pandemic) it made me think differently about what I work on and with who. As things slowly open back up, I bet a l

When I stated working remote (long before the pandemic) it made me think differently about what I work on and with who. As things slowly open back up, I bet a lot of people are reassessing their lives now that they have had some time to see things in a different light. Also, wild speculation...it's almost summer and why would you (if you really didn't need to) go get a job when you could stretch things out and try to enjoy this summer when the last one was taken from you.

cm2187 5y ago
It’s a different thing to take your time to rethink work when you are doing that on other tax payers money.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  It’s called unemployment insurance. The people who collect it have (for the most part, excepting gig workers) paid into it. It’s not “other taxpayers money” it’s their taxpayer money.
  - dboreham 5y ago
    Not really. That's a story told to sell such programs.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nkrisc 5y ago
  As a taxpayer I think it’s fine. The option is there for me too if I ever need it.
  - alentist 5y ago
    > I think it’s fine. Good. You can do it on your own dime, then.
    - pilsetnieks 5y ago
      Do you police, educate or fight fires on your own dime?
      - adventured 5y ago
        Can we please try that experiment for once, letting people decide exactly what they want to do with the the taxed portion of their income, in terms of where they want to allocate it? We won't change or reduce their taxes, we'll let them choose where to direct it. (hint: military spending to name one thing, would be cut in half; the monsters in DC, the globalists and forever-war advocates that dominate both parties and have us de facto occupying Syria right now, would never allow this) Now that would be a glorious, worthy experiment. Of course everybody - without exception - knows the outcome ahead of time.
        kasey_junk 5y ago
        We’ve done the experiment with firefighting over and over again. It doesn’t end well...
        stale2002 5y ago
        You misunderstood their point. They were not asking for firefighters to be privatized. Instead they were asking for people to be allowed to earmark their tax revenue. So, someone could move their money from military spending, and put it in firefighting, for example.
        kasey_junk 5y ago
        That will almost certainly mean critical services won’t be funded. We can see this with “school choice” initiatives. When they pass those that pay for private school remove their funds from the public school coffers. Firefighting is the same. If I’ve put in place fire prevention equipment & paid for insurance why should I fund public firefighting?
  - koolba 5y ago
    As a taxpayer I think it’s fine for anyone to make the rationale decision to take effectively free money versus getting a job. I don’t blame the individual anymore than that I blame someone for taking a legal tax deduction. They’re acting rationally within the parameters of the law. But that doesn’t make it sound economic policy for the country as a whole. Far from it.
    - madhadron 5y ago
      Absolutely. Children should be working in factories for minimum wage, not getting educated on the government dole.
- plankers 5y ago
  Yes, the lack of stress makes the time much more productive.
- exotree 5y ago
  Meh. The money is already (basically) spent.
- SubiculumCode 5y ago
  That is such a clich'e line, yet the link between taxes and spending is not as direct as most would have you think. Re fiat money
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- adamcstephens 5y ago
  Sometimes when we spend tax payer dollars, we get back orders of magnitude returns in indirect benefits. This may or may not be a 100% return, but I’m happy to invest in my fellow citizens who didn’t have a chair when the music stopped.
  - mhb 5y ago
    We're not investing. Our kids and grandkids and great grandkids are.
    - adamcstephens 5y ago
      Oh, since when do our grandkids and great grandkids get consideration in our actions? If they did get consideration, wouldn’t we want to reconsider a market-based economic system that destroys the natural systems they’ll be stuck with? That seems far more destructive to me than some human created currency numbers.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    > my fellow citizens who didn’t have a chair when the music stopped You're mixing up two different groups of people: those who lost their job and want a new one but can't find one, with those who just decided they don't feel like working anymore. I'm happy to invest in the former but not the latter.
    - PascLeRasc 5y ago
      The jobs are bullshit. There’s no benefit to society if someone spends 40 hours doing telemarketing or filling out paperwork.
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        Some of them might be, but a lot of them aren't. Look at all of the restaurants and stores that can't stay open because they can't find workers.
- p1necone 5y ago
  As a taxpayer myself I would not want to live in a society without safety nets.
- madhadron 5y ago
  Who says it's other tax payers' money? We all go through periods in our lives when we pay into the system and periods when we draw on it. As a child a large amount of money was paid to educate you, to provide you with vaccinations, to try to provide some kind of safety net for you, however dysfunctional it often is. At the end of your life, you will be paid a pension that other people pay into. If people go from exploitative, miserable jobs to better paying jobs, they are going to pay more taxes. Effectively the later them is paying for the earlier them. An actuary could probably estimate how much support is likely to produce a positive value. Perhaps our society should be giving everyone a sabbatical year ever decade or something like that? This is also why doing it as a public insurance system is better than via private savings. Private savings can only go one direction in term and are subject to large deviations, the same way health insurance costs are.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  Government spending doesn't depend on taxes; it depends on the Fed printing (actually, just changing numbers in spreadsheets). That's why we've been able to fight half a dozen stupid costly wars in less than a generation without raising taxes. It will be a win for humanity if we find better uses for our reserve currency status than fighting stupid wars. https://heterodox.economicblogs.org/multiplier-effect/2018/bibow-monetary-theory-twists-turns-macroeconomics https://heterodox.economicblogs.org/multiplier-effect/2018/b...
- JohnTHaller 5y ago
  And it didn't even occur to you that they're doing it based on the taxes they already paid themselves?
splithalf 5y ago
I agree. Sadly I think some fraction of these people, maybe many tens of thousands, will end up homeless or opting for “van life” as a result of their reorientation to risk.
tw04 5y ago
For all the talk of "lazy Europeans", I hope this has opened some Americans eyes. It's insane to me we don't have the equivalent of their summer "holiday". We work hard enough the rest of the year, taking a break should be a badge of honor, not shame.
- asheshka 5y ago
  Could you please elaborate what do you mean by 'their summer "holiday"'? Are you referring Ferragosto in Italy or what?
  - blihp 5y ago
    Some/many Europeans pretty much take the month of August off to go on holiday. That's in addition to other holidays/time off throughout the year. People in many jobs here in the U.S. are lucky to get 2 weeks off total per year.
    - forbiddenvoid 5y ago
      This was the most surprising thing to me when I started working with Europe. I had a meeting with a company in Germany at the end of July a few years ago and all involved said they would be unavailable until September.
  - benhurmarcel 5y ago
    Most Europeans take 3 weeks off in the summer (sometimes 4), typically July or August. Companies run very slow for a couple of months, or even close down in August.
- rorykoehler 5y ago
  As a European I am not keen on the European model. Everything just stops. You can't get anything done. We should have SLA's for critical and/or important services. For example one time I wanted to change the use of a commercial premises and was told to come back in 6 months because the person who takes care of that was on extended leave. IMO this is inexcusable and reflects poorly on Europeans and their values. This attitude problem extends way beyond holidays too. It's a miracle if you find a customer service rep that wants to help you solve your problem. The amount of times I've been fobbed off to go talk to someone else when calling customer support is worrying. As labour protections are so strong no one loses their job over non-performance. We're only hurting ourselves in the long run. This decay is hard to turn around. You need to holiday from something but based on my experience many people are not taking their jobs and role in society seriously enough to earn/need a break at all. I think there is a middle ground we should strive for.

cm2187 5y ago

It’s a different thing to take your time to rethink work when you are doing that on other tax payers money.

elliekelly 5y ago
It’s called unemployment insurance. The people who collect it have (for the most part, excepting gig workers) paid into it. It’s not “other taxpayers money” it’s their taxpayer money.
- dboreham 5y ago
  Not really. That's a story told to sell such programs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nkrisc 5y ago
As a taxpayer I think it’s fine. The option is there for me too if I ever need it.
- alentist 5y ago
  > I think it’s fine. Good. You can do it on your own dime, then.
  - pilsetnieks 5y ago
    Do you police, educate or fight fires on your own dime?
    - adventured 5y ago
      Can we please try that experiment for once, letting people decide exactly what they want to do with the the taxed portion of their income, in terms of where they want to allocate it? We won't change or reduce their taxes, we'll let them choose where to direct it. (hint: military spending to name one thing, would be cut in half; the monsters in DC, the globalists and forever-war advocates that dominate both parties and have us de facto occupying Syria right now, would never allow this) Now that would be a glorious, worthy experiment. Of course everybody - without exception - knows the outcome ahead of time.
      - kasey_junk 5y ago
        We’ve done the experiment with firefighting over and over again. It doesn’t end well...
        stale2002 5y ago
        You misunderstood their point. They were not asking for firefighters to be privatized. Instead they were asking for people to be allowed to earmark their tax revenue. So, someone could move their money from military spending, and put it in firefighting, for example.
        kasey_junk 5y ago
        That will almost certainly mean critical services won’t be funded. We can see this with “school choice” initiatives. When they pass those that pay for private school remove their funds from the public school coffers. Firefighting is the same. If I’ve put in place fire prevention equipment & paid for insurance why should I fund public firefighting?
- koolba 5y ago
  As a taxpayer I think it’s fine for anyone to make the rationale decision to take effectively free money versus getting a job. I don’t blame the individual anymore than that I blame someone for taking a legal tax deduction. They’re acting rationally within the parameters of the law. But that doesn’t make it sound economic policy for the country as a whole. Far from it.
  - madhadron 5y ago
    Absolutely. Children should be working in factories for minimum wage, not getting educated on the government dole.
plankers 5y ago
Yes, the lack of stress makes the time much more productive.
exotree 5y ago
Meh. The money is already (basically) spent.
SubiculumCode 5y ago
That is such a clich'e line, yet the link between taxes and spending is not as direct as most would have you think. Re fiat money
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
adamcstephens 5y ago
Sometimes when we spend tax payer dollars, we get back orders of magnitude returns in indirect benefits. This may or may not be a 100% return, but I’m happy to invest in my fellow citizens who didn’t have a chair when the music stopped.
- mhb 5y ago
  We're not investing. Our kids and grandkids and great grandkids are.
  - adamcstephens 5y ago
    Oh, since when do our grandkids and great grandkids get consideration in our actions? If they did get consideration, wouldn’t we want to reconsider a market-based economic system that destroys the natural systems they’ll be stuck with? That seems far more destructive to me than some human created currency numbers.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > my fellow citizens who didn’t have a chair when the music stopped You're mixing up two different groups of people: those who lost their job and want a new one but can't find one, with those who just decided they don't feel like working anymore. I'm happy to invest in the former but not the latter.
  - PascLeRasc 5y ago
    The jobs are bullshit. There’s no benefit to society if someone spends 40 hours doing telemarketing or filling out paperwork.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Some of them might be, but a lot of them aren't. Look at all of the restaurants and stores that can't stay open because they can't find workers.
p1necone 5y ago
As a taxpayer myself I would not want to live in a society without safety nets.
madhadron 5y ago
Who says it's other tax payers' money? We all go through periods in our lives when we pay into the system and periods when we draw on it. As a child a large amount of money was paid to educate you, to provide you with vaccinations, to try to provide some kind of safety net for you, however dysfunctional it often is. At the end of your life, you will be paid a pension that other people pay into. If people go from exploitative, miserable jobs to better paying jobs, they are going to pay more taxes. Effectively the later them is paying for the earlier them. An actuary could probably estimate how much support is likely to produce a positive value. Perhaps our society should be giving everyone a sabbatical year ever decade or something like that? This is also why doing it as a public insurance system is better than via private savings. Private savings can only go one direction in term and are subject to large deviations, the same way health insurance costs are.
jessaustin 5y ago
Government spending doesn't depend on taxes; it depends on the Fed printing (actually, just changing numbers in spreadsheets). That's why we've been able to fight half a dozen stupid costly wars in less than a generation without raising taxes. It will be a win for humanity if we find better uses for our reserve currency status than fighting stupid wars. https://heterodox.economicblogs.org/multiplier-effect/2018/bibow-monetary-theory-twists-turns-macroeconomics https://heterodox.economicblogs.org/multiplier-effect/2018/b...
JohnTHaller 5y ago
And it didn't even occur to you that they're doing it based on the taxes they already paid themselves?

splithalf 5y ago

I agree. Sadly I think some fraction of these people, maybe many tens of thousands, will end up homeless or opting for “van life” as a result of their reorientation to risk.

tw04 5y ago

For all the talk of "lazy Europeans", I hope this has opened some Americans eyes. It's insane to me we don't have the equivalent of their summer "holiday". We work hard enough the rest of the year, taking a break should be a badge of honor, not shame.

asheshka 5y ago
Could you please elaborate what do you mean by 'their summer "holiday"'? Are you referring Ferragosto in Italy or what?
- blihp 5y ago
  Some/many Europeans pretty much take the month of August off to go on holiday. That's in addition to other holidays/time off throughout the year. People in many jobs here in the U.S. are lucky to get 2 weeks off total per year.
  - forbiddenvoid 5y ago
    This was the most surprising thing to me when I started working with Europe. I had a meeting with a company in Germany at the end of July a few years ago and all involved said they would be unavailable until September.
- benhurmarcel 5y ago
  Most Europeans take 3 weeks off in the summer (sometimes 4), typically July or August. Companies run very slow for a couple of months, or even close down in August.
rorykoehler 5y ago
As a European I am not keen on the European model. Everything just stops. You can't get anything done. We should have SLA's for critical and/or important services. For example one time I wanted to change the use of a commercial premises and was told to come back in 6 months because the person who takes care of that was on extended leave. IMO this is inexcusable and reflects poorly on Europeans and their values. This attitude problem extends way beyond holidays too. It's a miracle if you find a customer service rep that wants to help you solve your problem. The amount of times I've been fobbed off to go talk to someone else when calling customer support is worrying. As labour protections are so strong no one loses their job over non-performance. We're only hurting ourselves in the long run. This decay is hard to turn around. You need to holiday from something but based on my experience many people are not taking their jobs and role in society seriously enough to earn/need a break at all. I think there is a middle ground we should strive for.