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They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions
- joschmo 6y agoSounds exactly like an article being written about the Mission in 2009
- tptacek 6y agoAnd 1999.
- igetspam 6y agoAnd the rich folks busing mcmansions around laguna seca
- usmannk 6y agoAll the way down to "Cesar Chavez"
- hindsightbias 6y agoEast Austin’s demise was a neighborhood topic in the late 90’s.
- ryandrake 6y agoReal estate law has this concept of “Coming to the nuisance” where if you know that there is some kind of “nuisance” nearby and you move next to it anyway, you can’t complain about it later. I’m not a lawyer so I’m probably pedantically wrong about it in some way but that’s my understanding of it. People do this with small local airports all the time. They move in, knowing full well (or should know full well) that there is an airport there, then a year later they bitch and moan about the noise and try to shut it down.
- meddlepal 6y agoGiven enough people, loud complaining, money, and politicians ears you can get anything moved.
- justinclift 6y agoWhile most of the time that does appear to be the case, there are exceptions. eg: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-martins-beach-supreme-court-20181001-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-martins-beach-supr...
- geoduck14 6y agoThere is an asphalt factory 10 miles from where I live, on the access road to a major highway, and in the middle of lots of urban development. The factory has been around since the mid 80s. There is a nearby new housing development with residents complaining about the air pollution (apparently it is really smelly) - and their response is "yeah, we've been here since before you were born, so whatev". It cracked me up. Edit: Oh! I almost forgot, there are people who built their house next to a NASCAR track! WHO thinks that is a good idea?
- DrScump 6y agoSimilarly, there are people who moved adjacent to San Jose's Reid-Hillview airport and then complain about airplane noise from civil (small prop plane) aviation. Reid-Hillview airport opened in 1937 when nothing but farmland surrounded it.
- xiphias2 6y agoOver time air pollution has to go out of cities anyway if people need to move to cities to be able to get a job. I think that's just a matter of time.
- travisjungroth 6y ago> Edit: Oh! I almost forgot, there are people who built their house next to a NASCAR track! WHO thinks that is a good idea? People who don’t mind noise and want to make a shitload of their mortgage back on Airbnb.
- Gabriel_Martin 6y agoAirbnb is the least of it I'd guess. More like parking, camping and vendors' rent, depending on how close they are.
- flukus 6y ago> Edit: Oh! I almost forgot, there are people who built their house next to a NASCAR track! WHO thinks that is a good idea? Depends on how often it's used I guess. At times I've lived a couple of blocks from a formula 1 track and right on a hairpin bend of an IndyCar track. Both were held once a year so even though I don't like car racing it was a feature not a problem.
- wutbrodo 6y ago> They move in, knowing full well (or should know full well) that there is an airport there, then a year later they bitch and moan about the noise and try to shut it down. Would this be relevant for something that is in violation of the letter of the law? I ask this purely legally, as the ethical question of community rights and the tyranny of bureaucracy is a separate one.
- chordalkeyboard 6y agoThat is an excellent question and it strikes to the heart of the difference between two people’s interpretation of a given statute (or body of law).
- Aloha 6y agoI live next to an airport, I consider that noise to be the sound of progress abs economic growth.
- xqyf 6y agoAn airport is as predictable a nuisance as a once-weekly gathering at a public park? I can see where the airport is on a map in relation to my new apartment. It's reasonable to expect airport noise. If I visit the apartment, if I spend a day walking around the neighborhood, is it reasonable to expect a, (illegally) loud party to happen at a given time at a given week? Should chicano culture be preserved? Should people expect to be comfortable in these homes? The answer to both is yes.
- compiler-guy 6y agoWhen selling a property, the seller must disclose anything in the surrounding environs that may have a material impact on the property's value. For example, when I bought a home years ago, the disclosures were very long and included things like a super-fund site miles away. This situation would certainly qualify for a residence--if a loud party shows up every weekend that makes traffic terrible for a while, that should have been disclosed. But the issue here is with renters, and property management doesn't have to disclose that to renters.
- kwhitefoot 6y agoSounds like well off people moving from London to a sleepy village in the country and then complaining about the church clock chiming, cocks crowing, and the smell of silage from the farm next door.
- chiph 6y agoThe Charlotte Rifle-Pistol Club has an outdoor range in a distant corner of the county. But developers have discovered the cheap land out there (cheap for a reason .. it's next to a shooting range) and started putting in subdivisions. The club posted a large yellow sign by the entrance: "A safe & friendly neighbor since 1913" so that prospective homeowners could see it, as it was suspected that the realtors & sellers were not disclosing it's existence.
- chrisco255 6y ago"The new arrivals have forced many Black residents to move out of the city: In 2000, about 10 percent of the Austin’s 656,000 residents were Black. By 2017, that percentage had dropped to around 7.5" Well, article definitely commits a statistical fallacy there. Austin is one of the fastest growing cities, especially from 2000-2017 period. The fact that the percentage went down (from 9.5 to 7.5), while the city's population nearly tripled does not mean people were 'forced to move out'. In fact, it means that the black population nearly tripled while other races moved to the area in even greater numbers.
- Bukhmanizer 6y agoThat stood out to me too. I didn’t know the exact figures, but the peculiar wording of it felt like the author was trying to slip one by me.
- gowld 6y agoIt's more likely that author doesn't even understand what they are writing, and is just grasping at factoids to mock up an argument.
- fortran77 6y agoFacts don't matter for certain people. That being said, I'm sympathetic to the people who like to parade and show off their custom cars. I used to see that in California when I first moved here. No drag racing, or dangerous stunts, just people driving cars slowly down the street.
- chrisco255 6y agoI'm sympathetic as well, but cool cars with no drag race is a bit like sex with no climax. When I was a teen, we would gather in a shopping center to show off our cars and talk shit, and then drive out to a rural area to run quarter miles for fun. Good times!
- adjkant 6y ago
- gujndsdhk 6y agoWhat’s with the racially charged description? I thought Texas was not about virtue signaling and political correctness.
- jackemcpherson 6y agoFew things annoy me more than this kind of destructive gentrification.
- throwaway000345 6y agoWhen places are full of white people, minorities are brought in in the name of diversity and it's to be celebrated. When places are full of minorities and whites move in, it's gentrification and we need to write articles lamenting it. Cultural mixing happens both ways. Sometimes inclusion means changing long standing traditions.
- quantified 6y agoHave there been any natural experiments where less-wealthy white folk were priced out by more-wealthy non-white? I think the driver of gentrification is economic class not race/ethnicity. Wealthier and whiter show up together but may not be the same thing.
- richiezc 6y agovancouver?
- fuzxi 6y agoQuite a bit of Canada, I'd wager.
- isabelc 6y agoMiami, Florida
- masonic 6y agoHave there been any natural experiments where less-wealthy white folk were priced out by more-wealthy non-white? Cupertino and Saratoga CA are exactly such experiments.
- quantified 6y agoIs the word “gentrification” used in describing the shift?
- 6y ago
- droptablemain 6y ago"Another Weaver resident voiced more generalized criticism, calling the event a 'display of toxic masculinity.'"
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- wahern 6y ago> “[W]e should shut this thing down,” a third resident, who blamed the lack of police response on the “idiotic” city council’s decision to slash the Austin Police Department’s budget, wrote in March on a building forum. Turns out partisan ideologies are flexible enough to justify the same class preferences.
- practicalpants 6y agoI thought you were joking until I read the article. That's not a thing I've ever seen in Austin's culture, indeed a transplant.
- dimgl 6y agoThis is really depressing... It's like there's no escaping this type of mentality anywhere in the U.S. I'm currently in the process of leaving California. I won't miss it at all I'm afraid.
- chrisco255 6y agoThere is, just don't move to urban areas if you want to avoid it.
- int_19h 6y agoThe problem is that the urban areas move (or rather spread), and eventually encroach on the surrounding countryside.
- throwaway0x1 6y agoThe Californiacation of Texas.
- ulisesrmzroche 6y agoWhat’s annoying is that instead of switching to whataburger, their bringing the in’n’outs. The transplants are failing to assimilate here and it really shows. If I land a remote job I’m selling my place and moving to San Antonio.
- haram_masala 6y agoSan Antonio is one of the friendliest, kindest, and most delightfully understated places I’ve ever visited. Whatever it is that makes it that way, let’s spread it across America.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- quantified 6y agoOk, now I need to spend some time there.
- ulisesrmzroche 6y agoDefinitely visit. Check out the river walk. If you’re a basketball fan, you got the Spurs.
- IG_Semmelweiss 6y agoalas, these Austin locals did not learn the SF lesson, real estate lesson 101 As soon as foreigners invade your shores (er, real estate spaces) move to grandfather a cap property tax that is particularly beneficial for long time real property owners. I understand that at first, this would do nothing to alleviate the attack on the local culture. The same foreigners would still call the cops. Yet, with enough time, the latino locals would have been rich latino locals, from simply holding onto property, and renting it out to new arrival..s making a killing. Then those rich latinos would have had some dollars to contribute to local pols. That could be a group happy to push on repeals of noise or public assembly ordinances. Rinse,repeat. You would have a full-fiesta by now. There goes the neighborhood! Opportunity lost.
- gowld 6y agoRenters don't get to profit from real estate appreciation. That's the problem with gentrification.
- xiphias2 6y agoThey should buy up things and max out their loans...even a parking place will worth 10x there soon.
- wahern 6y agoMany areas of Texas and California have had large, stable, resident latino communities for over a hundred years or more, and thus far greater percentages of property ownership than in most other areas.
- wutbrodo 6y agoThe distribution of property owners is not the same as the distribution of renters (most obviously with respect to class), even in a subpopulation like "Latinos".
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- CodeWriter23 6y agoThey should cancel the Condo Development IMO.
- tacitusarc 6y agoThis is a really abnormal article to see on hackernews. I generally don't expect to see the politics of a random city in the U.S. here. Maybe because Austin is becoming more of a tech hub? So now the politics of the city seem more relevant to the tech community?
- xiphias2 6y agoAustin looks like the new cool kid in the town, so many famous / rich people moved there. I expect to read more about it in the future.
- adjkant 6y ago> I generally don't expect to see the politics of a random city in the U.S. here This regularly happens on HN for SF, LA, NYC, Seattle, etc. Austin is pretty in line with those for the reasoning you suggested.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
- jameson 6y agoWhat's the issue with gentrification? We are living in a fast paced world so one needs to adapt to the changes. It could be my neighbor, skill sets, policies, etc.
- wutbrodo 6y agoThis is just asserting the conclusion instead of arguing it. Some people disagree that one needs to adapt to changes ad infinitum, and think that there's value in social capital, continuity, etc. I'm personally pretty inclined towards the change side of the argument, but there's no sense in pretending there aren't two sides to discussion, particularly after the High Modernist failures of the 20th century.
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y agoI'd imagine one's views on gentrification are largely shaped by which side of the gentrification they're on.
- hindsightbias 6y agoAs long as they personally don’t have to throw grandma down the stairs, they’re ok with it. The price of progress. Since TX doesn’t have Prop 13, they are going to be annoyed with the tents cluttering their views.
- dylan604 6y agoNot having Prop 13 and not know where you are posting from, what is Prop 13? edit: apparently, it's some sort of limiting of property tax. yes, texas does not have that, as property tax and sales tax are the only taxes. no state income tax has its pros/cons. it's part of being a texan to annually challenge your homes appraisal value. the only time i've ever had an issue with property tax was my first home when i was 21. it was new construction, so for the first year of the loan, the value was based on the unimproved lot. the next year, escrow doubled because they updated to the new value with the house, and needed to double dip to cover the difference from the previous year. more than doubled the payment. hard lesson to learn.
- olivermarks 6y agoA variation of this rinsing out of any local culture is going on in Sacramento County California, where arguably gentrification has resulted in a 2019 autocratic edict that residents are not allowed to work on cars in their homes except fluid changes, with fines if you are found to have professional tools on the premises. https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/it-is-illegal-to-work-on-your-car-in-your-garage-i/155378/page1/ https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/it-is-illegal-to... Since Sacramento County is approx 50% white, 50% hispanic/black, a case can be made this is a racist law given the relatively high number of hispanics and black who work on their cars, including car clubs such as the Austin tradition. This is culturally very unhealthy given how fundamental freedom of movement is to the US zeitgeist, and how important car culture is as the core of US life.
- quantified 6y agoSounds like a place in need of “right to repair”
- mips_avatar 6y agoWow one of my life goals is to have a house with a proper workshop. Guess that won’t happen in Sacramento.
- jimbob45 6y agohttps://code-enforcement.saccounty.net/Programs/Pages/AutoRepair.aspx https://code-enforcement.saccounty.net/Programs/Pages/AutoRe... These rules are draconian. "[Prohibited if conducted] outside a fully enclosed garage or accessory structure and resulting in the vehicle being inoperable for a period in excess of 24 hours." On the other hand, if you're rich enough to live there, you're probably rich enough to have a large enough enclosure where you can skirt the law anyway.
- sokoloff 6y agoIt's even worse than that. Major repairs are prohibited even in a fully enclosed garage. Minor repairs are prohibited in a great many cases as well. If I use a torque wrench to reinstall my wheels (even in a garage), I'm in violation. If I change the brakes on a friend's or girlfriend's car (even in a garage), I'm in violation. If I plug a flat tire for a neighbor or a passing motorist in my garage, I'm in violation. If I start a brake change in the driveway on Sunday morning and need a part from the parts store that I get and install on Monday, I'm in violation. I've certainly done all of those things and am not seen as a "bad neighbor".
- unethical_ban 6y agoNote that ownership is supplanted by rentership. I like urban density, but renting is extraction of wealth rather than a one-time transfer. I wish more of these developments were condos/ownership/co-op/what have you.
- chii 6y ago> renting is extraction of wealth rather than a one-time transfer. why is that? Renting is merely paying for shelter. The purchase price of a property would match rentals when adjusted for the cost of the capital to purchase (aka, interest payments, lost opportunity cost of capital etc). The only thing rentals lack is certainty - you cannot get kicked out of your owned home, but could for a rental (even with enough notice - it's still getting kicked out).
- danaliv 6y agoRentals lack equity, which is kind of an enormous thing to overlook.
- adjkant 6y agoAt the general level, I doubt anyone is surprised to see this story, and there will likely be more to come as tech flocks to Austin (though it was already a notable tech hub with some of these pressures already before the billionaires decided to give it the seal of approval). To me, the more interesting question here is how does Austin avoid what happened to SF, where tech hollowed out nearly all of its existing culture and then tech workers began to complain it was bland. Real estate and zoning policy is going to be key here. I've seen a decent deal of discussion about "Yuppie Fishtanks" [0] recently and generally it seems to be supported that massively increasing the housing supply is one of the best ways to keep rents intact and avoid hollowing gentrification. For the existing Austin residents here, how is the city approaching it thusfar? Do people think this is another SF gentrification story in the making, or is something different? [0] http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2018/07/yimbyism-explained-without-supply-and.html http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2018/07/yimbyism-explaine...
- vorpalhex 6y agoThose traditional black neighborhoods were bought up, demolished and turned into luxury apartments at insane prices. At one point I was on the east side and saw an old black woman rocking on her front porch in front of a 70's shotgun shack, next to an ugly post-modern 2 story house with a lambo and a tesla sitting outside of it. I don't think increasing housing density is the answer. We really don't need more luxury apartments or million dollar condos.
- adjkant 6y ago> I don't think increasing housing density is the answer. We really don't need more luxury apartments or million dollar condos. This was my first natural instinct maybe 5 years ago, but seeing the differences in gentrification stories has made it clear it's far worse to keep density the same. If nothing in the city changes and rich people decide they want to flock to your city (in this case, tech workers), it's a given that the existing poorer people will be forced out and prices will increase. Measures like rent control only slow the process, holding back a rising tide. I've seen this personally in my backyard in Brooklyn. What has happened there is that massive luxury towers have been built along a busy street (central to transit but still not "neighborhoody"). While rents have still gone up, it seems this real estate and luxury market has helped stave off the insane hikes SF has seen, for example. Million dollar condos, probably not a good idea. But luxury buildings with high density turn into normal real estate in 20 years, and that top of the market ease keeps a lot of that tech money out of existing minority and poor neighborhoods. The question for Austin if they accept that is where to put them. Finding a balanced place would be key here IMO.
- tayistay 6y agoDoesn’t matter who came first, you can’t generate a bunch of smoke and noise. I’m sure Austin has a noise ordinance. Easy solution is to move the event to a better location.
- konjin 6y agoThen build a new condo there because of the rich culture and force the festival to shut down at the new location. I've had to deal with gentrification before, the only time I've seen it lose was when someone took a tractor and ploughed asbestos into the ground around the proposed site. The clean up costs were in the billions and the projects died because of all the bad publicity. The site getting known as the toxic exclusion zone was just the cherry on top.
- yurielt 6y agoSometimes you can just smell the Bay Area aroma in someone’s post , this reeks of it please stop if you think gentrification is okay or if you hate communities particularly those of color having a good time why don’t you find a better location for your life?
- alvah 6y ago"a non-Hispanic white woman with short blond hair who appeared to be in her fifties, claimed that smoke from the tires was killing nearby trees and that traffic from the gathering would make it impossible for an ambulance to reach her in the event of a medical emergency". Did she demand to speak to the manager?
- NearAP 6y agoAccording to the article, this event has been happening almost weekly for years 1) Does this mean the developers did not take this into consideration and have a plan on how to deal with this or handle it? 2) Does it mean the folks buying the apartments (or renting) did not do their due diligence and find out this is a weekly event? Takeaways here (for all of us reading this story) - do you research before you move to a place (rent or buy). Go there on a weekday and a weekend. Ask current residents about the place or other folks who live nearby about the place. It will save you a ton of hassle later on.
- vorpalhex 6y agoThis is an intentional tactic. Buy land at a discount near a nuisance, sue/threaten everyone around you into oblivion, and then enjoy your now-significantly-more-profitable house/condo/apartment building. This has repeatedly happened with the music venues, which caused them to leave that part of the city. It happened with a really nice gun range. It happened with several bars. Unfortunately the car meetup is probably doomed.
- chii 6y ago> near a nuisance if they were a nuisance, then getting rid of it surely isn't an issue? The fact that there exists residential places near "nuisances" is the root cause of the problem isnt it?
- pas 6y agoAccording to the article this is simply a weekly Saturday BBQ at a school yard. It's sort of supposed to happen where residents live. Of course this being USA people go there by car (and when a lot of people who know each other go in a procession, who also happen to love their cars, it can get loud), of course this being the 21. century somehow even just built luxury apartments are not noise-proofed sufficiently. https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Weaver/@30.2522831,-97.7317779,498m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x2f079eaf4c205be5!8m2!3d30.2525629!4d-97.7319724 https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Weaver/@30.2522831,-97... This looks like a nice park at the river, which also happens to be the backyard of a middle school. So it seems The Weaver was built next to a 3+3 + 4 + 4 lane highway/interstate and a school (anyone have any experience with loudness levels at recess?) and now the residents are complaining about the one thing they feel is easiest to change. The BBQ.
- kjgkjhfkjf 6y agoThe article makes the residents appear petty and ridiculous, but to be fair these gatherings really are obnoxiously noisy and extremely annoying. I'd be surprised if many non-transplants didn't find them tiresome as well.
- bww 6y agoNo class of argument is more malleable than who was there “first”. Sometimes it means you’re right and you’re entitled. Sometimes it means you’re wrong and you’re exclusionary. All depending on the perspective of the person using it for leverage. Compare this article with any article about the need for denser housing in California, which is often opposed by the people who were there first.
- a5seo 6y agoI moved to Austin 20 years ago from Palo Alto. Fiesta Gardens isn’t all churros and mariachis. The car meet ups can legit be a bit rough. https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/6pocmw/brawls_at_fiesta_gardens_not_unheard_of_witnesses/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/6pocmw/brawls_at_fi... So I understand where the gentrifying scum are coming from. But jeez, do they not know how to search Reddit?? Everyone knows about Fiesta Gardens and its craziness. I’m sorry they failed to do their due diligence. Now perhaps they’ll understand why it’s cheaper than Tarrytown.
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- dlandis 6y agoI’m familiar with the gathering they are writing about. It’s really not a disturbance whatsoever anymore. It’s a shame there are people being so up tight about it. In years past it definitely got out of control sometimes and the bass was so loud it would rattle houses a quarter mile away. I definitely wouldn’t have felt comfortable having an infant exposed to that noise level during those times. But it’s been fine for at least a couple years and it doesn’t go too late.
- dylan604 6y agoA lot of the Austinites like to say "Welcome to Austin, don't move here" or some such silliness. The "funny" thing is the ones that say this the most are the ones not originally from Austin but feel they have been there "long" enough to call it home.
- gotoeleven 6y agoIt is truly the golden age of officious busybodies.
- Bukhmanizer 6y agoThere are ways that people talk about gentrification that always makes me slightly uncomfortable. As a non-white person, something always feels like gentrification is something that “good” white people like to blame “bad” white people for doing, when the real problem tends to be wider and more systemic. In this particular instance I find myself asking why it matters that the Weaver residents were originally not from Austin. If you’re born in Chicago, shouldn’t you still have the same rights as someone who was born in Austin? That includes the right to complain. However it doesn’t mean anyone has to listen to you. As other users have pointed out, it’s not exactly a new situation for people to move to a neighborhood and immediately try and kick their neighbours out. It’s just that most of the time they’re told to kick rocks. It seems to me the real crux of this issue is that rich white people are so much more prioritized by the law that a couple of irate Karens can overrule an entire neighbourhoods opinion. It has nothing to do with where they’re from or gentrification. Not that gentrification doesn’t cause it’s own problems. But the way some people talk about it, as though existing residents are entitled to a higher set of rights, leads down some pretty dark paths, especially when newcomers are of a different nationality, or race than current residents. It reminds me of something that used to be said a lot in jest when I was younger in the 90’s and 00’s and working in fast food. Whenever people gave me extra work to do, they justified it by saying something like, “well, he should just be grateful he isn’t working in a rice paddy” (I’m from Singapore originally, but ok). There seemed to be this view that because my parents chose to move to Canada when I was young, I was somehow entitled to fewer rights, even as a citizen.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- rmetzler 6y agoI think one important part of Gentrification means there are people with more money moving into a neighbourhood. The real estate agents just showed the building to them on the quiet day and they bought their piece of it, believing it's like this all day every day. And when they move in, they realise the quietness was rather the exception than the rule. If they were from the area before, they would have known. But because they payed this amount of money, they think they bought the right to a have the quietness they were sold on. I've seen similar things in Berlin in the 90s and early 2000s when West-Germans, mostly from Swabia moved in. They were sold apartments next to Youth clubs and the new neighbours didn't like that they had loud music on Friday and Saturday nights. But this was Berlin, this was what it was famous for. But whatever, a lot of the clubs had to shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knaack_club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knaack_club
- 29athrowaway 6y agoWell, if you are at home putting a baby to sleep and suddenly some guy blasts some music from their car and wakes up your baby, what would you do? it's not a hard decision. There's a hierarchy of needs. Being able to be at peace in your own property ranks higher than someone else's need to blast music from their car. I do not have anything against the guy or his music, there are just some things that are more important than others.
- castis 6y agoDoing some research on the place you're about to sign a lease on seems like an important step. I've done this for every place I've ever chosen to live and it usually works out great. "We were here first" is plenty of justification of a whole lot of things.
- wayneftw 6y ago> "We were here first" is plenty of justification of a whole lot of things. No it's not, not according to the law. If I move into town and I want to change things that's my right as a citizen.
- 99_00 6y agoStuff white people like #73 Gentrification https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/22/73-gentrification/ https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/22/73-gentrificatio...
- throwitaway1235 6y agoI feel like a large parking lot is better for this sort of thing than a residential block. Compromise?
- cool_dude85 6y agoSo the compromise is, the guys in the luxury condos get what they want, and the people who have been using this public park for years must go hang out in a parking lot somewhere else instead? King Solomon you ain't.
- anigbrowl 6y agoCompromise is a 2-way thing. What's coming from the other side?
- diebeforei485 6y agoYeah, the burning tire smell from cars doing donuts is very unpleasant. They can do this in the middle of nowhere if they want (easy enough to get there with a car).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- goatinaboat 6y agoCalifornians fleeing the the things they voted for, then voting for the very same things again. Is there a legal way Texas residents can block them coming?
- ic0n0cl4st 6y agoCalifornians? Nah bro, these are the east-coast/midwest transplants who invaded our state to get fat off of the startup lottery. They never became Californians, they just slept here.
- eplanit 6y agoCaliforniafication is far, far worse than any kind of gentrification. I feel sorry for my beloved home state of Texas.
- OldHand2018 6y ago> I feel sorry for my beloved home state of Texas. Don't. Texas, like many states, never misses an opportunity to trumpet the number of people moving there. Texas, like many states, spends a lot of money in the rest of the US trying to convince people and businesses to move there. You got what you asked for. You got what you paid for.
- EvilEy3 6y agoWhat a hot garbage. What does race of people have to do with every point? Just because "most of them are hispanic and black" it suddenly invalidates "white non-hispanic" woman's point?
- nindalf 6y agoThere seems to be a contradiction in this article - they’re complaining about the property values staying low for a long time and are simultaneously complaining about property values increasing in recent times. Also, the article criticises the creation of multi storey homes, but isn’t high density housing better compared to single home lots?
- ic0n0cl4st 6y agoSo basically Austin is experiencing today what we San Franciscans have been suffering through since the web 2.0 boom began in 2008. I remember when they built yuppy condos next to the DNA lounge and the new tenants immediately joined the “War on Fun” and began trying to get the DNA shut down. Before you know it, everyone here on HN will be labeling austinites as “greedy nimby’s”, complaining about being made to feel uncomfortable by acknowledging the homeless problem, and complaining that Austin isn’t exactly like whatever place it is they moved away from to go to Austin while seeking their startup millions.
- p2t2p 6y ago> a non-Hispanic white woman with short blond hair who appeared to be in her fifties Just as expected.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- dbeley 6y ago> A car club member spins his back tires—a practice known as a “burnout”—at a car club meet-up on Sunday, unleashing a cloud of white smoke Is that really something worth calling a tradition? If it were to happen where I live, I would definitely call the police.
- gregors 6y agoI feel you've highlighted the core of the issue without understanding it. With diverse populations people place value on different things. You are obviously not an automotive enthusiast. There are lots who are. I'm assuming that the location was originally chosen because it was out of the way or the area it was held in was deemed acceptable at the time. You could just outlaw it and then what happens? People will still meet up illegally. City planners have a difficult job. They need to find acceptable locations for disruptive activities. Getting along doesn't happen by accident it takes city officials, car club members, and new and old members of the community to create a city everyone can enjoy. Easier said than done.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoDamn near everybody who thought about the way things were going foretold this kind of thing. First the California (or NYC, or DC, or Boston) money shows up kicking out most of the people who aren't at least a white collar level of moneyed. Then with nobody to stand in their way they Karens and Kevins (not necessarily from CA, just rich enough to still stick around after the CA money jacks everything up) swing their political weight around doing their best to turn the place into a sterile and conformist hellscape. We've seen this pattern in cities and suburbs across the county.
- dudul 6y agoAnd in a decade they'll complain that the area has lost all its former charm, move to another town and rinse and repeat.
- cauliflower99 6y ago"One particularly vocal tenant, a non-Hispanic white woman with short blond hair who appeared to be in her fifties". Ah Karen - thou strikes again.
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- wayneftw 6y agoGood. If one of these mechanophiliacs moved next-door to you, you'd better believe that they would start working on cars and complain loudly if you tried to stop them. In other words, they would move into a peaceful and quiet neighborhood and change things for themselves too. I have lived through this, it's not pleasant and I'm the one who eventually had to move out of my own neighborhood.
- airhead969 6y agoTo be fair, I'm a middle-aged white engineer raised in San Jose, CA relocated to ATX in Dec 2020. I live at the corner of I-35 east-side frontage and 5th in a mega apartment complex. I've tried meeting many of my neighbors and most are asocial/antisocial. There are 2 women roommates and an African-American kid who are legit cool that I've met so far. Also, I don't even know the people across the hall. My conclusion from many interactions is my neighbors are mostly phony, little life experience, selfish, corporate clones who steal shopping carts and leave them blocking the hallways, let their dogs pee everywhere in the hallways and don't clean it up, throw garbage on the floor, don't wear masks, don't talk to one another, sit by the pool on their phones, and act phony cool like they're still in high-school. Heck, my upstairs neighbor complained about my music on the weekend during the day without introducing themselves and not diplomatically. Point being: gentrifiers tend to be mostly uncool and don't care about anything other than forcing their own bubbles on everyone else. More power to Austin car clubs. Let the gentrifiers pound salt. Edit: I would like to move somewhere near cooler people, but I'm probably going to have to grow a social circle to find that. Also, I wonder if more upscale or cheaper housing tends to attract or repel cool peeps.
- jiveturkey 6y agosounds like you are legit cool
- datavirtue 6y agoWorking class neighborhoods. I live in one and the people are very real for the most part. Neighbors gather together frequently and are social but will leave you alone. We don't suffer any bullshit though. One of the main reasons I haven't moved is because the neighborhood is real and fairly devoid of weird Karens like the one quoted in the article.
- Aloha 6y agoVery much agree!! I live in a working class neighborhood in the DFW area, it's much more friendly than the wealthy complex I was in, in WA
- fallingfrog 6y agoMoney comes in and displaces culture. It’s a story that just repeats over and over.
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- S_A_P 6y agoThis article paints a very clear picture of who is making the complaints without specifically saying it. [quote] 'One particularly vocal tenant, a non-Hispanic white woman with short blond hair who appeared to be in her fifties, claimed that smoke from the tires was killing nearby trees and that traffic from the gathering would make it impossible for an ambulance to reach her in the event of a medical emergency (though two other roads to the apartment building remain accessible at all times). Another Weaver resident voiced more generalized criticism, calling the event a “display of toxic masculinity.”' [/quote] I think they only stopped short of saying her name starts with a K and rhymes with "Aaron". My knee jerk reaction is why do people move somewhere and immediately try to change a place to their set of values? Are they just fundamentally unhappy people? Despite what seems like an over-reaction from this person this sort of struggle with cars is nothing new especially in Texas. The Cars And Coffee thing is pretty big down here, and while I do love cars I have mixed feelings about C&C for a few reasons. Typically you have a subset of the group that does engage in very dangerous maneuvers on public roads. There are enough youtube videos of people doing dumb things in cars going badly that Im sure most of you are aware of it. Typically its more of an age related than race related problem as young kids and cars with 3-800 horsepower are a recipe for trouble. I dont really go to C&C events for this reason. EDIT TO MAKE MORE CLEAR- This seems to be aimed more at the the people complaining about slab/lowrider/people of color car culture. Those folks should be called out (the Karens for the sake of bevity). That should not be conflated, however, with people doing burnouts and other dumb things with cars. This is anti social behavior and should be policed if it is out of control. Of course the archetype that is discussed in this article is known for blowing things out of proportion, so without actually having been there who knows. I personally love how Texas can be such a melting pot with rich culture from all walks of life and there is very real concern about how the great migration from California will pan out.
- lastofthemojito 6y ago> why do people move somewhere and immediately try to change a place to their set of values? Why do people harass teachers to try to get the curriculum to reflect their values? Why do people get elected to Congress and immediately try to change laws to reflect their values? And so on ... because they think their values are absolutely, unassailably correct. Maybe it's because that's what they've been told on Sunday their entire lives, but there's little to no room for "maybe people from other cultures have values that seem strange or scary to me, but ought to be respected".
- CA0DA 6y agoOne or two Karens complaining ... this is so minor in the grand scheme of life. Certainly not a "national story." Not sure why we (hn) is concerned with this.
- stevespang 6y agoFrom the article: "Some unloaded barbecue grills, toddlers, and pit bulls, then cracked open beers, and blasted Texas hip-hop and Tejano music. Others joined a slow-moving carousel that flowed from the parking lot into the street and back again, swerving from side to side and occasionally screeching their tires, unleashing plumes of white smoke that covered the block in a light haz". Heh, sounds like just what these newly transplanted wealthy untolerant condo owners deserve . . they should have done their research a little better, maybe they will sue their real estate agent ? Turn up the music ! As seen at a local bar: A tip jar with the words "Please donate to help build an escape proof fence around the entire State of California . . .". Well, now you are witnessing what's happening at our Southern border with our unfinished wall . . .
- howinator 6y agoI live in this neighborhood, about three blocks north of where the car club meets. I’m white. I’m a homeowner. You get the picture. Honestly, these people complaining in Weaver sound insane. They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community. We have a Brit who lives on my street that does community organizing and he’s been wonderful about building a sense of community that integrates the old and new residents. They should really be talking to him or Pio, mentioned in the article, instead of calling the police and accusing the car club of dealing drugs. Yeesh. With that said, I think there are legitimate criticisms about the car club. For one, they absolutely trash the place every Sunday. When I walk down to the lake on Monday, there’s just tons of trash on the ground. I don’t know who picks it up but it’s certainly not the car club. Also, doing burnouts and donuts on public streets sounds fun but it leaves the road covered in tire rubber and I imagine it smells awful while they’re doing it. Those are basically the two things I’d like to see change, and in my humble, gentrifier opinion, they seem like reasonable issues to talk about with the community. Instead of having those conversations, we get white people leveraging their white privilege in the worst ways and anarchist groups like “Defend Our Hoodz” intimidating new businesses that open up. Fun times in my little corner of the world.
- chmod600 6y ago"They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community." Is that a broadly-accepted opinion? Does it apply consistently to all cultures -- e.g. does it apply when nonwhites move into a white area? And, does it reflect reality? Do new populations really preserve the prexisting culture in practice?
- harles 6y agoRequiring cultural integration is a slippery slope.
- bobthechef 6y agoIsn't that what the new tenants are trying to do? Integrate the natives into _their_ culture?
- motohagiography 6y agoThe quote, "Artists are the storm troopers of gentrification." comes to mind.
- caseysoftware 6y agoLongtime Austin resident.. to all the people moving here, I always say: "Remember what compelled you to move here and defend it."
- scarecrowbob 6y agoI dunno... I moved town to Manchaca and 1626 from Fredericksburg, cause I thought it might be easier to get gigs. IMO that place is terrible to get paying musical work, so I left to go play in the mountains. Where, ironically, it is much easier to find paying musical work. All the folks I had been playing with out in the hills (literally, 'the boys' from that Luckenbach, TX song) all had a similar feeling, though they all left Austin in the early 80s. IMO, it's a city like any other at this point, and has been since, say, they closed the Armadillo. But even if that point doesn't work for you, the development around the Broken Spoke is a pretty visual representation of that same feeling. I wish you much luck with your thought here, cause maybe I am just cynical about the place... my feeling is that mostly people move there cause it is a city with a lot of well-paying jobs and because TX funds itself with property taxes. But I'd prefer to be wrong about that.
- caseysoftware 6y agoYes, I'm cynical about Austin proper specifically, especially as my property taxes have 4x in the last 10 years and the piles of human excrement on the street have grown. If you do the math around the bonds that come due in the next 5 years, it's going to get ugly. But I can hope that people will think before they push for the same behavior and policies that they've left.. but not counting on it.
- hn_asker 6y agoKeep Austin weird. If you don't like it, leave.
- steve76 6y agoOh yeah. Big tough gangsters. Got shut down by the neighbors and realtors and now cry to the press. Boo hoo hoo. Bother me and I'll spike your lemon juice with elephant tranquilizer. Look everyone. Look how these tough guys cry when they wet their diapers. These wannabes are nothing. Drive them out. Drive them to the gutter, to the wild, to the sea. Just drive them out. Why didn't the car show buy up the real estate? They had the same opportunity as their neighbors? Oh yeah. They're illiterate junkie diseased bums. F** 'em.
- bennysonething 6y agoWhy does the article mention race so much? What's race got to do with it?
- sneak 6y agoBecause in the US, when two groups or people have a disagreement and the cops show up, one group is assumed to be law-abiding by default and the other is assumed to be not. Police-initiated violence follows. Some people like this outcome, some do not, and think it's unfair, especially when the latter group was there first/longer.
- baud147258 6y agoit's a race to the bottom
- uncoder0 6y agoBecause the media doesn't want to draw attention to wealth inequality, it's pretty straight forward.
- toss1 6y agoJust like the people that move in next to even famous auto racing circuits, and then complain about the noise -- it's your job to check out the situation before moving in. The best proper adaptation that I've seen was reading about a developer that took some deteriorating apartments under an airport runway and refurbished them specifically for the deaf community (doorbells that flash instead of ring, etc.). It was apparently a big success. I'd consider that car meet regularly held nextdoor to be a wonderful benefit.
- dfilppi 6y agoWell they had a good run and now its over.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- LudwigNagasena 6y agoIt is not bad to move from one city to another. And every citizen have such basic right. Traditions are also not something good by itself. The title tries to incite a negative emotional response, but if you think about it, there is nothing wrong per se with moving from one city to another and wanting to end a certain practice you don’t like. Of course it may or may not be reasonable, but the title presents as if this information is enough to blame someone.
- bluedays 6y ago> One particularly vocal tenant, a non-Hispanic white woman with short blond hair who appeared to be in her fifties, claimed that smoke from the tires was killing nearby trees and that traffic from the gathering would make it impossible for an ambulance to reach her in the event of a medical emergency (though two other roads to the apartment building remain accessible at all times). Karen? Is that you??
- protomyth 6y agoAsk any farmer when folks move into the area expecting some Disney version of farm country and get the reality of it. Its amazing how many complaints can be generated.
- microtherion 6y agoThe classical Swiss variation of this is the urbanites moving into the countryside and telling the farmers to get rid of the cowbells. TBH, the farmers don't have much except tradition on their side; there is no practical reason for the bells outside the mountains, and research has come to the conclusion that they are not overly healthy for the cows. Plus it was generally the farmers who sold the urbanites the land to build their houses on. And for an urban variation: People who move next to a church and want it to stop ringing its bells so often.
- tibbydudeza 6y agoThere are three car tracks in the Austin area - surely they can come to an agreement with one of them to have their burnouts , barbecue's and social gatherings there ???. Public parks are not the place for this , nothing to do with culture.
- setr 6y ago> One particularly vocal tenant, a non-Hispanic white woman with short blond hair who appeared to be in her fifties, claimed that smoke from the tires was killing nearby trees and that traffic from the gathering would make it impossible for an ambulance to reach her in the event of a medical emergency Why is this woman so uniquely and thickly qualified “A non-white black man with a thick black curly hair who appeared to be in his early 20s claimed he didn’t like the non-hispanic white woman with short blonde hair who appeared in her early 50s who claimed the smoke killed trees “
- orthecreedence 6y agoBecause they don't want to just come out and say "Karen."
- setr 6y agoIf that were there case, it seems a bit dangerous/wrong for a reporter to be trying to pinpoint a complainer like this, if the reporter/target is not comfortable enough to put the name in directly. The only outcomes are nothing, or trouble occurring with the reporter having a very thin claim to non-responsibility.
- jariel 6y agoSome bad habits deserve to die but anyone wanting to snuff this is bonkers - this is legit, creative, authentic culture. It's the most rare and valuable thing. They should be encouraging it.
- whoknew1122 6y agoI grew up in Austin and had to move due to some family obligations. Every time I get back, I recognize less and less of my city and its culture. I used to want to move back, but now I'm not sure what I'd be returning to. Oh, and for the unnamed woman worried about drug distribution, it's not local Black or Latino gangs that run drug distribution in Austin.
- babesh 6y agoWe have weaponized identity politics to get what we want: toxic masculinity vs white supremacist thinking. The clear trend in this arms race is to tick off more and more boxes.
- chiph 6y agoThis isn't the first time that newcomers have complained about Austin traditions. First there were the people who admitted they moved to the downtown for the vibe. But then complained about the loud music from the bars along Rainey Street. So.. you moved to the Live Music Capital of the World, only to complain about the live music? The city adopted a noise ordnance that kicks in at 10pm, and enforces it with SPL meters. Later, they started complaining about the smoke from the BBQ restaurants. Daily batches of BBQ get started around 3am, and to be good BBQ, are made from beef brisket smoked over a wood fire (not gas, not electric, and certainly not with "liquid smoke"). So .. you moved to a state where brisket BBQ is a second religion for people, only to complain about the smell. I believe the city figured out there was no pleasing these people, and told them to keep their windows closed if they didn't like it.