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We created a fake language to root out resume liars
- rmason 6y agoIn case you can't reach this Facebook Forum here's the post: Gather round kids, I'll tell you a story from a time long before Flutter, Angular, even Fusebox (gasp!)... I was working at a 1st generation dot-com and we were bombarded by resumes from anyone wanting to get rich quick like those guys profiled in Industry Standard Magazine (sorry kids, go look that up). Anywhoo, we invented a totally fake programming language, called "MOVA", and mentioned it whenever headhunters called. That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. True story? Maybe, you can't be sure on today's Internet. Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go polish my golden Ben Forta idol. But feel free to re-use the phony book image we made back then. - Alan Holden Requisite fake O'Reilly book on Mova https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3802113716522185&set=gm.10158154545285036 https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3802113716522185&set=gm....
- A12-B 6y agoI admire resume liars. The job market isn't fair and you should do anything you can to get ahead. (Employers are going to pull tricks like this, so why not? Just be smart about it)
- Gigablah 6y agoWell, being labeled a liar means that one is bad at it.
- nightowl_games 6y agoWhile I respect the virtue of selling yourself, I think the logic of "everyone is doing it" has been used by many people to do many bad things. I for one hold myself to a far higher standard than this, and I think I'd be far less happy in general if I let my dignity slip like this.
- JasonFruit 6y agoBesides, it's a losing proposition: if you lie to get a job at a place that won't hire people with honest resumes, you end up working with a bunch of lying mercenaries for a company with unreasonable expectations. Even if you had no morals, it's against your interests.
- xmprt 6y agoI read something recently that said if you feel like you're "getting away with it" then you're probably doing something wrong.
- mrweasel 6y agoWhile lying on your resume is often defended as: “Everyone does it, employers expects it”, I don’t think it’s nearly as common as people think. It may be market/country specific, but simply assuming that it’s something you do is idiotic.
- chordalkeyboard 6y agoI guess you wouldn’t be upset if a business lied to you about compensation, since you have no problem with a prospective employee lying about what they bring to the table.
- goatinaboat 6y agoif a business lied to you about compensation Exaggerating the possibility of a bonus or of the value of stock options is completely normal for employers.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- chordalkeyboard 6y agoWell people are saying its ok to lie to get the job too. Either both are wrong or both are ok.
- dagw 6y agoWhile both are "wrong" in a more absolute sense, they are both so common and accepted that you really should assume it is happening and act accordingly.
- chordalkeyboard 6y agoI agree. Assuming it is happening is different than approving of it or agreeing that it is ‘ok’ when the subject comes up.
- bpodgursky 6y agoI think there's merit to this... within reason. Stretching a couple years of Java experience into a decade? Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly? Meh, probably. But since MOVA is, definitionally, fake, it's not like you have any idea * what * you're claiming to know. There's a level of BS here that isn't calculated, and I think that makes for a truly dishonest employee (aka bad hire).
- nomel 6y ago> Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly? I've seen that backfires with people I interview. I have a limited time with each person. If you're saying you have experience but obviously don't, it means everything on your resume has to be considered as "possibly false". It brings a much more critical eye to that type of candidate, with lots of discussion and questioning that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise.
- bpodgursky 6y agoYeah, I wouldn't personally do it, and I'd expect the candidate to crash-study before the interview enough to make it a plausible story. I just wouldn't consider it a * hard * disqualifier, if the truth came out.
- codeflo 6y agoI had a situation like this recently at a smaller company. Candidate claims years of expertise in X and Y. We have great X people, but would like to hire someone with deep Y knowledge. So we (more out of routine than any particular strategy) probe X in the interview. Turns out the candidate is beginner level at best, and also a bit arrogant about it. Would you in that situation believe the Y claims, that you can’t evaluate as deeply to begin with?
- PhillyG 6y agoUnfortunately it often takes quite a bit of experience in a skill to truly assess your own skill level. Many programming courses teach just the basics of coding in a language, without making it clear that it's not really enough to professionally start working on production code. It also requires more knowledge of a language, to work with other people's code than your own - and there really isn't enough recognition of that fact (at least in people I've come across)
- rualca 6y agoPlease keep in mind that resume padding is often not done by the candidate but by headhunters who want to depict their square peg candidate as the most perfect round peg ever imagined.
- tasogare 6y agoA relative works in a country where lying on CV and during interviews by hugely inflating one’s skills is the norm. It only fools European expatriate managers with no knowledge of the country. Local HR and experienced expatriates know about it and adjust their accordingly. When everyone is lying, it doesn’t make a difference anymore.
- skrebbel 6y agoThat's a fantastic way to keep getting hired by the kinds of employers who will screw you over and keep your world view intact.
- iwangulenko 6y agoTech recruiter here. Firms on average are more dishonest than jobseekers. The reason is simple: If you do something often enough, you get sloppy. For instance, if you start going to the gym, at first, your exercise execution is perfect but after some weeks you get sloppier and sloppier. Same here, firms that are hiring constantly tend to get fatigued. Jobseekers, however, are "active" for some weeks until they switch jobs; this is why you, as a jobseeker, need extra training during your jobhunt, to be on-par with them. I don't recommend lying but I do recommend tailoring your resume such that it reflects actually what you did in an adequate level of detail. Most job seekers are too honest on the CV and during interviews.
- goatinaboat 6y agoMost job seekers are too honest on the CV and during interviews. Interviews are structured as if candidates are doing fancy algorithms every day, whereas you’re probably actually writing glue code 99% of the time and crammed CtCI just before the interview. The whole thing is fake, but companies started it.
- znpy 6y ago> Firms on average are more dishonest than jobseekers. This. It happened to me to receive CVs for a position and the actual candidate was completely clueless. Yet the recruiting firm was really pushing that as "a very good candidate albeit a bit junior". OTOH, it happened to me that I had an interview with a consulting firm. They would basically forward my CV to the actual client and only hire me if the client "accepted" to "hire me" through them. The thing is, this firm asked me for my cc in ms word format, so that they could add their own logos and stuff, make it appear like I was on their payroll and more importantly remove all the contacts (as if it was any meaningful in the age of LinkedIn). I have no way to tell if they inflated my CV in any way.
- surfingdino 6y agoThis is one of the standard practices at a lot of recruitment firms.
- yulaow 6y ago
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- thih9 6y ago> Employers are going to pull tricks like this, so why not? Not every employer pulls tricks. Also, the employer is not the only one that gets affected by sending fabricated resumes; this makes the job search process more difficult for e.g. other applicants too.
- TrackerFF 6y agoWhile I see your point, resume liars is also the reason why we have such draconian interviewing processes at the moment. You can go to pretty much any tech company in the world, and somewhere, someone is going to have some horror story about hiring a seemingly competent (even perfect) candidate on paper, that turned out to be woefully incompetent. The types that are supposed to have a Masters degree + 5 years of industry experience, but can't code themselves out of a wet paper bag.
- mikelward 6y agoPermalink seems to be https://m.facebook.com/groups/CFprogrammers/permalink/10158154545285036/ https://m.facebook.com/groups/CFprogrammers/permalink/101581...
- ALittleLight 6y agoThis reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume, at the end of the interview they'd take the candidate to go play the master.
- mudita 6y agoSo, as a bonus, the ones who were not lying about being good at chess were probably really happy about the chance to play a grandmaster! :)
- josephg 6y agoI used to do some work with a software consulting firm. There was a ping pong table in the office, and while talking about rates, our CEO liked to offer clients a 15% discount on our services if they could beat Joe from accounting at ping pong. He did it as a bit of a running joke, and to see how people reacted to the offer. What our clients didn't know was that Joe was terrible at ping pong. But that didn't matter - from memory he was only ever challenged once in the many years I was there.
- JimmyAustin 6y agoA mate of mine's consulting company offers a 10% discount on any work if the client buys them a plant, any plant, for the office. Apparently they've only had two clients take them up on the offer.
- neolog 6y agoWhy do they offer that?
- s314159265358 6y agoBecause they want plants.
- keiferski 6y agoReading this made me think: if someone from 1900 were to see this paragraph, it would made absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's interesting how new slang and technology words develop so quickly.
- JasonFruit 6y agoIt works in reverse, too: slangy school-newspaper style writing from back then is almost incomprehensible now.
- sdenton4 6y agoI know someone who has a certain of this specifically for phone interviews. He'll ask if the candidate knows about FakeTech, which has one website at the top of the search results... Woe unto the interviewee who recites the facts they find there...
- MetalHead 6y ago"MOVA" is literally a "language" in Ukrainian
- dandanua 6y agoRussian chauvinists also like to call Ukrainian language as fake. So this looks like a bad Russian joke.
- kdmytro 6y agoI am Ukrainian and I can confirm, we do not exist.
- dehrmann 6y agoDoesn't Ukraine also mean "borderland?" It's actually funny which name for countries ends up getting borrowed. The Finnish word for Finland is Suomi. The Swedish word for Finland is Finland. Ironically, the Swedish word for Sweden is Sverige, but at least you can see the Sw/Sv commonality.
- dandanua 6y ago"krai" also means area, territory, not just border. The meaning "borderland" is a Russian derogatory narrative, very hypocritical btw.
- junippor 6y ago"language" in Ukrainian is "yazyk".
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoNo, in practice it is мова, and modern standard Ukrainian mainly uses inherited Common Slavonic *językŭ ‘tongue (organ); language’ only in its meaning ‘tongue’. The article for "Ukrainian language" at the Ukrainian Wikipedia is literally "Українська мова" [0] [0] https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0 https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97...
- lsh123 6y agoLong long time ago in a galaxy far far away I used requirement in job postings “10 years of Java experience” (when Java was about 7 years old) as a filter: people who wrote me complaining about unrealistic requirement got interviews; people who sent resumes with 15 years of Java went into /dev/null
- mssundaram 6y agoThat's really lousy, I wouldn't have even bothered applying to that because I'd assume you had unrealistic expectations or no idea what you are talking about.
- Animats 6y agoYes. I've seen job ads asking for N years of experience in something < N years old. The assumption is that the ad is from a bottom-feeder headhunter.
- lsh123 6y agoI’ll repeat reply to another comment: you would have made an assumption without knowing facts or trying to ask questions
- lsh123 6y agoI was (and still am) interested in hiring people who would challenge manager, TL, ... and speak up if they think something is not right. That was just one of the filters.
- 8ytecoder 6y agoI wouldn’t waste my time if I thought the hiring manager/recruiter is so incompetent. I’d have read that and bucketed the company as one of those looking to tick the boxes in years of experience.
- MauranKilom 6y ago
- gnicholas 6y agoWhen I saw the domain of this post, I thought it was a trick that FB came up with to cull the wheat from the chaff. Apparently not!
- cycomanic 6y agoI had the exact same thought. I was a bit surprised that they would advertise to use such a tactic.
- sdoering 6y agoThis reminded me of a talk [1] at pyData Berlin some years ago. Vincent demonstrated how he used some ML techniques to create fake pokemon sounding names to put into his LinkedIn resume. So that he could filter out headhunters without any real knowledge. To quote from my notes [2] of the conference: > There is a striking phonetic similarity between big data technology and pokemon names. Can you create a service that generates strings that sound like potential pokemon names? And what might be the simplest possible way to make that into a service? Also, would it be possible to generate pokemon names that start with three random characters and end with 'base' (KREBASE, MONBASE would be appropriate but IEYBASE would not be). [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hR4peP9V4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hR4peP9V4A [2]: https://gist.github.com/sdoering/37203f3301c6f0b9f48f76a976a2119f https://gist.github.com/sdoering/37203f3301c6f0b9f48f76a976a...
- karlding 6y agoThere's also a Pokemon or Big Data quiz [0]. [0] http://pixelastic.github.io/pokemonorbigdata/ http://pixelastic.github.io/pokemonorbigdata/
- irjustin 6y agothis was hilarious! if you're like me and don't know pokemon that well (only the most famous ones), this is pretty tough.
- justusthane 6y agoThat's excellent. I'm usually pretty good at these either-or things, but I was 2/10 on that.
- meepmorp 6y agoI got 100%! Mostly because my 8 year old happened to ask what I was doing and identified all the pokemon for me.
- ulucs 6y agoFor naming new projects, I like to use the random page function in Shin Megami Tensei wiki.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- vagrantJin 6y agoIt baffles me why anyone would lie about the languages they know. Why. Always tell half truths, never whole lies. I live in a country where companies distrust former startup founders regardless of exit. So when a good opportunity cones around - people pretend to have been merely working for said startup instead of the guy running it. Thats a good lie.
- bryanrasmussen 6y agoWhy does South Africa mistrust startup founders? Denmark mistrusts people who've been consultants applying for full time employment, in my experience.
- goatinaboat 6y agoDenmark mistrusts people who've been consultants applying for full time employment, in my experience That is because of Janteloven
- dgellow 6y agoCould you give more context?
- goatinaboat 6y agoSee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante#Definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante#Definition
- bdcravens 6y agoTo be fair, there's not many more CF jobs than MOVA jobs these days :-) On a serious note, there was a moment when candidates were claiming to have 10+ years of Rails experience when DHH was literally the only person in existence who could make that claim https://www.strategic-options.com/insight/2019/06/13/you-cant-have-more-than-10-years-of-experience-on-rails/ https://www.strategic-options.com/insight/2019/06/13/you-can...
- prepend 6y agoIt’s funny how I came across some posting that wanted 10 years of Java when that wasn’t possible. I asked the recruiter what the deal was and they said they had to choose from a drop down of “1-3,3-10,10+” so they chose the highest one because Java was really important. They didn’t even know what Java was or how old it was. This helped me understand how little misunderstandings can get amplified into things that seem really specific and set in stone. So the whole “question everything” approach really helps here as assuming that just because a number is specific that it was chosen for a specific reason is rarely true.
- SaintGhurka 6y ago> To be fair, there's not many more CF jobs than MOVA jobs these days :-) 20-year CF dev here. It's a weird market. There aren't a lot of jobs, but there also aren't a lot of candidates. So interviews have an interesting power dynamic. Sometimes they're downright fun because you both know that the company doesn't have a lot of other options. On the other hand, if I'm ever unemployed, I know that power dynamic will be working against me.
- fergie 6y agoI find it particularly ironic that it has fallen to a Facebook group of Cold Fusion programmers to call out poor choices. Those of us who actually worked at 1st generation dotcoms know that absolutely nobody had any idea what they were doing, even at the "proper" ones, and things were moving so fast that you absolutely _had_ to fake it until you made it.
- konjin 6y agoYes but how else will you kick down the ladder once you made it? FAAGs are where we put people who are really good at colouring within the box these days. It's pretty stunning how in 15 years it went from being a place where the best and brightest used to go a way to filter resumes.
- raverbashing 6y agoIt's funny, but if CF solved your problem and put money on your bank account then it did its job.
- sundvor 6y agoUntil they cooked up Spectra. :)
- dmje 6y agoHa, so true. Man, there were a few months back then when I was being phoned about 5 times a day with job offers. None of them were even vaguely related to the skillset I had (doing a bit of ropy HTML) but I could have tripled my salary without even breaking a sweat. I worked for Waterstone's Online at the time, glad I stayed put, we had fun. Cold Fusion though - I loved that. It was my first scripting language (apart from a brief foray into Perl), and it seemed like magic.
- prepend 6y agoI really hated ColdFusion. It made PHP hacks seem like beautiful poetry. So it’s funny that ColdFusion folks would complain about any stupid recruiter. But CF peeps are people too. My opinion is based on having to fix a lot of CF code from people who were “faking it until they could hire prepend to make it.” It’s funny that Allaire now runs RStudio and when I learned that I considered not using it anymore because of some lurking, unknown to me technical debt. But I’m sure he’s a smart person and CF was not terrible due to him being bad. So I’m still using RStudio.
- Puts 6y agoI would say any one using external recruiters are setting themself up to employing liars. Searching for jobs it's incredibly frustrating talking to a person who for once can't answer any technical questions of what the job is about, but also just crossing of a bucket list to see if you are qualified to talk to another recruiter with a bucket list. Instead of competing with liars I've just stopped applying for jobs going through external recruiters.
- xyzzy123 6y agoOne thing you have to watch out for is that sometimes it's not the candidate's fault. Sometimes the recruiter will "tune up" a candidate's resume without them knowing it. Yes, it's crazy.
- surfingdino 6y agoThat's why recruiters insist on receiving CVs in Word format.
- gogopuppygogo 6y agoRecruiters are sales people. Selling your services is what you are doing when you look for a job. So many people try to sell themselves to an employer that it’s a skill set to know how to navigate the process. Some recruiters ignore the hard work and do a spray and pray approach to finding people jobs. Those are bad recruiters but usually untrained. Good technical recruiters might even have an engineering background but like dealing with people more than machines. Good recruiters have no floor and no ceiling to earning. They work agency recruiting and often make it to the top 1% of earners in America. Recruiting is a big business.
- colechristensen 6y agoI have never had this problem either being hired by external recruiters or working for places that utilized them. I know that the recruiter is a recruiter, and don’t expect them to be an engineer. I have never been hired by a recruiter, they were just the first step. A company that requires engineers to filter applicants on the first pass probably isn’t very fun.
- mikewarot 6y agoMultithreaded Object Versioning Architecture - you kids can't even spell right. One night just to make a joke work, Linus renamed it to GIT.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoI bet they could put git in a job opening as if it were a programming language. A quick litmus test would be "write hello world in git". It would either come up empty (bad), a bullshit answer (bad), or a reply that git is not a programming language (good), or a creative solution (funny and good).
- Nasrudith 6y agoThat seems like something that would cause talent to nope out of the degree of apparent incompetence.
- pkilgore 6y agogit init && git commit --allow-empty -m "Hello World" && git log --pretty=format:%s -n 1 I need more interesting hobbies (than doing a lot of random git man page reading for various reasons).
- xoudini 6y agoI had a similar thought: git init -q && git commit -q --allow-empty -m "Hello, World\!" && git show --format=%B | head -1
- harel 6y agoThe actual story became irrelevant when I saw it's a ColdFusion developers group. I used to work on that platform in the 90s. That was the Django/Rails/Next/etc. of the day. It even packaged in some ExtJS components at some point (another java script relic). I'm surprised it's still a thing.
- wahern 6y ago> I'm surprised it's still a thing. Because it was a good idea? The whole industry came full circle. Here's some ColdFusion that people now call "Mustache JS": <h1>{{Subject}}</h1> <ul> {{#names}} <li>{{name}}</li> {{/names}} </ul> The problem with ColdFusion was that it went in the wrong direction. It tried to copy the trends of the industry by inventing and emphasizing CFScript when it should have doubled-down on the templating strategies and evolved it. Also, it jumped on the Java bandwagon. And it was proprietary and lost mindshare to free PHP, which also had a strong template story, albeit one that was conceptually more limited. CFScript and the Java integration weren't bad, per se. ColdFusion did have a problem when it came to extending the core engine functionality using traditional software architectural approaches. CFML had the concept of modules, but ultimately to do anything remotely sophisticated you had to drop down into C or C++ (and then later Java, I presume). IIRC, CFScript was superficially similar to Javascript, and if they had evolved it in that direction or just adopted Javascript outright, I think ColdFusion would have had more staying power. But the switch to Java probably made that impractical. A template engine integrated with a Javascript runtime running atop the JVM comes with too much performance baggage, even today. And the Javascript would have felt second-class and the "wrong" way to do things, anyhow, even if people ditched CF for an ecosystem that was that--Javascript or similar dynamic, RAD language instead of a "proper" strongly typed language. I worked for a consulting shop that started with ColdFusion and tried to make the switch to Java but they could never make it work. I think I was the only technical consultant in the whole company with the time and motivation to learn Java. Java (including runtime and tooling) was too complex and sophisticated for both the application developers and the client's needs. That would still be true today. The technical leadership of that company, which at the time had also just became a subsidiary of ADP, drank the Java and then XML kool-aid and drove the whole thing into the ground. For similar reasons (including some similar leadership) ADP lost out to PeopleSoft (later acquired by Oracle) in the race to build and solidify their middleware and web-app positions.
- brigandish 6y ago> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchange 2000. I had no experience with Exchange 2000, so I told them, and watched their faces drop. That was specifically why they wanted to speak to me. The recruiter had inserted it onto the copy of the CV he sent to them. I'm surprised I'm not still doing time for murder. What I'm not surprised about though is why they do it. I've been to plenty of interviews where my CV hasn't been given more than a glance. At moments like those I feel a deep sense of pessimism. The whole recruitment process seems broken from end to end and has been for a while.
- arethuza 6y agoI get as angry with recruiters as everyone else, but then I remember then time where I worked for a company that shared a floor of a serviced office building with a recruitment company. They were brutal in their treatment of staff - they were too cheap to get rooms for staff appraisals so they would do them in the coffee area we shared with them so we could hear how they were treated by their management - seeing people (men and women) in tears was pretty much a daily event.
- dmos62 6y agoJeez louise, imagine working somewhere where coworkers are regularly abused to tears. I really hope that that's an isolated case.
- slimsag 6y agoMy sister worked at a recruitment company for a while and basically described the same. They set targets for everyone that were basically not achievable ever, and managers were expected to basically personally berate you for not meeting them and place you on warning to get you to work harder and more hours. She wasn't in a position to lose a job at the time, and felt she had no other choice but to begin lying about numbers to meet the targets (obviously wrong.) She is very much NOT the type of person to do something unethical like that and felt extremely bad about it, apologized and got fired. Recruitment companies will literally push their employees to and over the edge. You either live to work for them or they break you and fire you. Outside of tech, mental abuse in jobs is shockingly common and frequent.
- dmje 6y agoSomewhat orthogonal but reminds me of the old map makers who used to insert made up islands / villages on their maps in order to prevent plagiarism. More here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_entry]
- jdhzzz 6y agoA relative has a business publishing information about high school athletics. They created a fictitious school and used it to prove a company had infringed their copyright.
- noxvilleza 6y agoHah, even more orthogonally but - I run a small statistics site for a specific esports title, and very often large companies (who host tournaments with hundreds of thousands of dollars in production and prize money) just use data from the site in their production without even crediting it. I added a bunch of very innocuous and subtle changes to some data somewhat akin to trap streets - specific values rounding in key ways, slight ordering changes for lists, etc.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoYou could probably monetize that service with a public API. Then screw over companies that take advantage of your services by providing them data that makes them liable, e.g. if they use it in gambling and they award the wrong prizes.
- pestatije 6y agoThat doesn't make sense: if you root out resume liars, then you are left with zero (0) resumes.
- badhabit 6y ago... just when i wanted to order the o'reilly mova book
- mandown2308 6y agoFacebook innovation smh
- austincheney 6y agoWhy even bother with a fake language when so often the industry has devolved into some sick level of honest negligence? For example: rarely do candidates need to know JavaScript anymore or even some unnecessary framework. Now people trade in experience of some tool that says nothing of anything: React Flux Capacitor (or some other bullshit like they want to go back in time to make lots of money without any real skills). Now if you ask these candidates some junior developer question outside of React Flux Capacitor bullshit they are not only hopelessly lost, but expect to be treated as a senior principal.
- that_guy_iain 6y agoHonestly, the thing I hate the most about IT is how bad it is while no one admits to it. These are problems I've encountered at several companies: * No budget for tooling. Be that software outside the ide or be it for hardware. * Cargo cult is so much bigger than anyone will ever admit. * The lack of caring about other departments. We're a team and we need to work as a team so the company can make money to pay our salaries. I've seen it to the point where one guy was willing to cause two departments weeks worth of work to avoid doing two days worth of work. * The amount of stuff that is just broken, people keep complaining about it being broken and it causes a pile of hassle for other people but just stays broken. Or it's point out it's broken and a big meeting is called to deal with it and then nothing is really done. * The amount of people who don't know what they're doing. So many people seem to have 1-year * x experience. They reach a certain level and they just stop. * The amount of people who don't even know what they're talking about - https://toggl.com/track/developer-methods-infographic/ https://toggl.com/track/developer-methods-infographic/ a prime example, kanban is literally how they make cars it's we work on one bit and the next area deals with the next part. The image should have a car manufactoring factory as is. But instead they have nonsense. * The amount of patting themselves on the back saying we're doing a great job while the system sucks and nothing is getting better and employee churn is sky high. Honestly, I think if people from other industries worked in IT for a year they would be completely shocked at how crap it is. I don't even think the hiring part is wrong, I think the entire management process of IT is wrong and causes more chaos so you end up with people who are heavily specilised in tools who are considered expert engineers but can't read UML.
- dmos62 6y agoSerious question: if you're applying for positions you're not totally confident in your experience and skillset, do you inflate your resume? My thinking goes that if I slip in by being dishonest, I'll be nervous of being found out, feel an intruder. So being honest and taking a longer time looking for match would get more comfort later on.
- juangacovas 6y agoI've interviewed on occasion (IT related). By far, the worst experience was about someone I approved and later discovered he clearly cheated/lied in the interview. Like, I set too high expectations and slowly but consistently realizing that "this guy just lied to me" in so many levels. I learnt from that so yes, for me, lying in an interview is the worst thing you can do.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoYup. I've had something similar where the interviewee was giving answers that felt very practiced. The recruiter was present in the room as well, taking notes (probably to prep applicants for the interview). We didn't hire the guy, and we no longer allowed the recruiter in the same room because of that.
- beaconstudios 6y agoI've only ever increased the amount of experience I have with a technology and only when I am already proficient in it. No sense not applying to a job demanding 2 years of xp when I have 1 year but can use the tools proficiently, especially given the X years metric is usually pulled out of thin air by a recruiter.
- Deestan 6y agoWhen hiring, we filter applications on what they claim on the CV but also actually dig into the required skills on interview. If we find a mismatch, it invalidates the candidate as a whole. If someone claims 8 years of MOVA but doesn't know basic stuff about MOVA semantics, they were either lying, they are incompetent, or they have been coasting.
- knorker 6y agoI've seen companies create fake technobabble documentation, so that they can ask "what do you know about FnordFubblers?". If they get an answer then they know the person is just googling the question.
- thrower123 6y agoWe've all seen those job posts asking for five years experience in technology X which was only released three years ago.
- Tade0 6y agoOn the other end of this I include "Staying Hydrated" as a skill in my CV so as to increase the chance of detecting whether the person who's interviewing me received the original version, something doctored or someone else's CV entirely. One time they didn't receive my CV at all, because apparently this was the extent of paranoia the consultancy through which I was hired was exhibiting.
- tpaulin 6y agoHow do you distinguish between those who have and those who haven't received the original? I'm going to hazard a guess that "Staying hydrated" is sufficient obscure that they ask you about it.
- Tade0 6y agoI count on that, but last time I asked if they could find this phrase in the CV. Of course this gives no protection against inserting unauthorized entries, but my experience so far is that recruiters either send the original CV or go all out and change whatever they want.
- makach 6y agoSomeone will just make the "Mova" language now, out of spite #estoteric the basic requirements should be * it should be easy to have mandatory experience in the language * it should not be perceived as a joke * Turing complete
- TimBurr 6y agoThat's a similar spirit to Rockstar and Enterprise - they're joke languages to poke fun at employer requirements. Rockstar actually looks fun to play with, in a code-as-art sort of way. :) https://codewithrockstar.com/ https://codewithrockstar.com/ https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise
- cletus 6y agoYears ago someone at Google did this with RAID 45 [1]. [1]: http://marc.merlins.org/linux/raid45.html http://marc.merlins.org/linux/raid45.html
- foota 6y agoA company I applied to a couple years ago out of college did something similar. They sent out a pre interview survey to gauge your familiarity with technologies, but included a few fake ones.
- Pick-A-Hill2019 6y agoI've been an IT consultant to 2x recruitment agencies in the past so can confirm with an n+2 confidence that at least some agencies mistreat their recruitment staff in ways that would shock even the most sociopathic sweat shop owner. Think high pressure sales tactics and the almost daily threat directly hurled across the office for recruiter X or Y to 'meet their targets or GTFO'. Fortunately I was a freelancer but I always used to feel so bad/sad for them, especially knowing the profits that the owners were making vs. that of their staffs'. On the other hand I once attended an interview at the early stage of my career for an extremely prestigious (pay, perks, prestige) role and sensed something was wrong when the interviewer asked me if I considered attention to detail an important part of the role...... When I said 'Yes, of course' they then preceded to berate me about a typo on my CV (cringe).... When I asked to have a look at their copy I saw that the agency that had re-typed/reformatted my CV and introduced the typo. When I told the interviewer that they replied with 'We don't hire people that blame others' for their own mistakes'. Ouch. With steam coming out my ears I politely informed the interviewer that that was fortunate since I really didn't want to work for any company that immediately viewed me as a liar. We agreed to terminate the interview at that point. Funny thing was - in my briefcase I had an extra copy of my CV as submitted to the agency but I thought – Meh, why bother. I consider that one of my many dodged bullets (Sorry for going slighly off-topic, my bad).
- yowlingcat 6y ago> I consider that one of my many dodged bullets (Sorry for going slighly off-topic, my bad). I don't think that's off topic at all. I agree that you really did dodge a bullet. For an interviewer to treat you with such disrespect over something which is so trivial and inconsequential is an immediate red flag. The purpose of an interview is not just to assess, but to sell the role to the candidate. "Negging" is an antagonistic interaction which is utterly inappropriate for the professional environment.
- bilekas 6y agoThis might not turn out the way you intend. I've had interviews and been asked about Javascript instead of Java.. Too many times, and I'm extremely specific in CV. Turned out the recruitment company was changing them and shipping them out.
- bigtex 6y agoI went to an interview that was something like 90% Adobe Flex/10% C# but in the interview all they asked was about C#. I think it was the other way around, 90/10 C#/Flex. Needless to say the interview did not go well because i was not expecting the emphasis on C#.
- nmstoker 6y agoYears ago I had in wasted interview because a well known financial institution had an internal system named after a particular type of financial product which it later became clear it had zero relation to. Despite flagging concerns regarding an apparent mismatch, the recruiter said my experience was perfect. I went along and within minutes of getting past the intros and onto the role specifics, it was clear it was a waste of time. Multiple red flags there for me: much as I back myself and have a strong CV, it was concerning my CV got past their basic screening for what they should have known was an inappropriate role. I blacklisted the recruiter and found another job through word of mouth soon after (a much better method where possible).
- Kneecaps07 6y agoI had a boss who would put one simple instruction at the end of the job posting - "Please send your resume as a PDF". This was for a technician job at an MSP. He would immediately delete any applications that didn't have a PDF attached. If I recall, it was something like 60% of the applications he got that he deleted immediately.
- travisjungroth 6y agoI made an open application for someone to receive feee weekly mentorship to become a software engineer. I asked for a < 1 minute video. 18/20 applications didn’t include it. Made picking someone really easy.
- matsemann 6y agoThat heavily biases what kind of people you select. It's not about following instructions, it's about not caring for the weird requirement.
- travisjungroth 6y agoI was fine with that bias. No judgement if you don’t want to apply and send a video. Some judgement if you want to fill out the rest of the app and then just leave a portion out of it, making the rest of your time a waste. And the mentorship was over video calls, so it’s not totally unrelated. My initial reasoning was just to make sure I could understand their spoken English enough to help, since I was offering it globally.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. hmm, I've found 3 jobs today I'm absolutely perfect for and this one that I'm nearly perfect for but wants some experience in something called Mova. Guess I just send a resume to the 3 jobs I'm perfect for.
- parsimo2010 6y agoYou could still send your resume to the company but not lie about having MOVA experience. They are called job "requirements" but companies often hire someone that is the best fit even if they miss out on one of the requirements. Of course, some companies also have a hard filter against requirements that you wouldn't get past, but you won't know unless you send your resume.
- bryanrasmussen 6y agook, most 'sending a resume' involves going through a job portal of some sort, doing some work to fill out some stuff, uploading your resume, making a cover letter etc. If they give me interviews for the 3 that I perfectly match, which most companies do for me, and take home assignments which often happen, I might have basically a full week of stuff to do. At that point I don't want to put out the effort to to go to an interview for a job that on the face of it looks less likely to hire me than one of the other three. If I see no jobs that perfectly match me then I drop to the close match jobs, but if I see jobs that perfectly match me I don't do the work for the close match jobs. on edit: and of course what if the company is already only a close match, there is one technology I don't match for the actual job, but then you add a fake tech on top, suddenly I don't match two things. basically this idea means that you help sort out some of the honest qualified people for your position because they will evaluate the job posting as being less relevant to them than otherwise.
- matchbok 6y agoWhy is this a FB group? For software developers. Don't support Zuck and his shit companies.
- goatforce5 6y agoMy dotcom 1.0 employer did exactly the same thing, although I think ours was called 'Black Box'. If a recruiter said they had 'Black Box' candidates ready and waiting to come in for interviews we knew the recruiter would lie, cheat and steal to get candidates placed (and their fat commission cheque). If a recruiter said they hadn't heard of Black Box but would reach out to their pool of candidates, they'd be considered a bit more trustworthy and perhaps worth doing business with.
- belval 6y agoUntil recently I was never part of the hiring process at any company because I was simply too new. I always thought how it was insane that people would say "I only spend 30 seconds on each resume", that I would somehow be better and do a more thoughtful analysis of the candidate. Boy was I wrong, the amount of resume you can get for a job is crazy and most candidates are absolutely not a good fit. I even had one person put the wrong LinkedIn profile link in their resume so it pointed to someone else with the same name but a lot more experience.
- jameshart 6y agoOr they (or a recruiter) sent in an old resume...
- belval 6y agoFrankly it's a one letter typo so I'd be inclined to believe the person just made a mistake, but at the same time the only way this resume got to me was because the LinkedIn profile on the resume was impressive, much more so than the resume itself.
- thrwyoilarticle 6y agoSo the same name AND the same field? Wow!
- notacoward 6y agoA particularly motivated programmer might create a language called MOVA.
- roland35 6y agoDealing with applicants who don't know what they are doing is hard, but trying to trick people is disingenuous and I personally would avoid any application that involves any trickery. Also sometimes an internal or esoteric tool gets listed in the application, you never really know! The people who write the job description also sometimes make typos and mistakes.
- falcolas 6y agoSo, let me get this straight - you lie about your job requirements, but get all bent out of shape when the candidates lie right back at you? Brilliant. I can’t think of a better example of why hiring is broken; of how unequal the power dynamic is between employers and employees.
- rkalla 6y agoIs anyone surprised FB has this culture? This would be like me leaving little breadcrumbs of an affair for my SO to find and then have it all culminate in an "AH HA! I caught you snooping!" when they call me out on it. So... healthy...
- jefftk 6y agoThis isn't a post from Facebook Inc, this is a post from a random person on Facebook.
- mrits 6y agoI am, seeing how it has nothing to do with FB
- dvtrn 6y agoIs anyone surprised someone commented without reading the content?
- pavel_lishin 6y agoFrost1X has seven years' experience reading that comment.
- csemaan 6y agoIs anyone surprised people have the culture of bashing FB right or wrong?
- jefftk 6y agoYou don't list it as a requirement; list it as something that would be nice to have.
- Gustomaximus 6y agoA while back a few of us created a April fools 'Face Gestures' video for Opera software. For years after I would occasionally have people mention they were interviewing a candidate that said using our 'face gestures' was one of their favourite features of the browser. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkNxbyp6thM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkNxbyp6thM
- gota 6y agoThe video is hilarious, congratulations A well implemented version of the idea would actually be useful for people with impaired mobility. Perhaps focusing more on eyes and blinking, or combining limited gesturing with eye movement/blinking... anything to avoid having to lick to bookmark or shake your tongue is a plus, really
- Cd00d 6y agoHilarious. I had forgotten gestures. I paid for Opera for years because I loved mouse gestures so much. Now I'm back to moving my cursor all the way back to the top left to hit a back button. I don't know what happened.
- hellbannedguy 6y agoI understand the need for Resume accuracy in key roles. We all know the people with spotless resumes, who get jobs they don’t deserve, and perform abysmally, and sometimes alienate whole departments—middle managers in dockers. Or, the run of the mill worker whom just does the bare minimum, and counts on that bloated resume as a life saver. If I had a company, many jobs would be based on test results. It would take nepotism, preconceived notions, liars, out of the hiring process. Of course, many jobs could not be filled this way. I don’t know why companies try out local applicants for a couple of weeks, and if they preform, make it permeant. “ Employer, “You did well on our tests. Could come here for a couple of weeks, and we will see how you do? It would give the diamonds in the rough, minorities, and guys whom didn’t go to the four year party, a chance, and company might gain a productive worker?
- belval 6y agoYou do understand that there is a very real non-hypothetical cost to doing something like that right? Each of these people needs to be paid, added to payroll by our HR, shadowed by a more experienced dev to give them a chance to ramp up. If you hired 5+ devs that are potentially "diamonds in the rough" you need to have IT give them their hardware and do the onboarding. In hiring it's always quality over quantity and absolutely not the opposite because of precisely this reason. Another fallacy is basing your hiring on test results. This is silly because you also discriminate by assuming everyone has time to do a take home test which is certainly not the case. If you meant a quick test in-office then there is no way you can get deep enough insight for it to be worth your time.
- jgalt212 6y agoThere's something Kafka-esque about the largest distributor of fake news creating a fake programming language.
- unixhero 6y agoAh he olde Entrapment approach. That won't fare well in court.
- frob 6y agoThis reminds of of the time back in 2013 where someone posted a job asking for 5+ years of Node.js development experience. Node was released in 2009.
- HelloNurse 6y agoDoing it in a real job listing is dangerous because some good candidates will decline to apply because they know nothing about MOVA and it looks like an important requirement. It might be better in open requests for CVs, where the company asks about knowledge of zillions of technologies. Honest candidates answer truthfully that they don't know MOVA with the expectation of being considered for non-MOVA jobs, without any incentive to lie, and moderate liars would choose what to exaggerate based on their actual know-how, not indiscriminately.
- alexwasserman 6y agoDefinitely the recruiter. They destroy resumes. Best/worse experience - walked into the interview and the interviewer asked if I preferred to go by first name or last name. I said I'm happy to be Alex, but don't hugely mind. He said - no "First Name, or Last Name", and showed me the resume. The recruiter had stripped off header, slapped on theirs, with logos and all, and forgotten to change their boilerplate, so my name on the resume was literally "First Name Last Name". Luckily I had a print out of my real resume with me to show him, and that I wasn't the type to submit a resume without my name on it. They'd also ended up putting 1 line onto a second page, which is minor compared to missing off my name, but pretty annoying given I'd put a fair amount of time into coming up with a nice 1-page resume.
- alexwasserman 6y agoA couple of jobs ago I was interviewing a candidate and the first item on his long list of "tech I know" was AFS. AFS is a pretty rare filesystem, but at the time we were one of the biggest users globally, and it underpinned all our servers. Finding someone with good knowledge would have been great. Me: "So, AFS is pretty rare - but, can you tell me about your experience with it" Them: "Sorry, never heard of it" Me: "It's the first technology you list on your resume" Them: "Sorry, still never heard of it". Not the best start they could have had in an interview, but have to give them credit for honesty.
- gnulinux 6y agoI don't understand... Why would anyone do that? If you're gonna lie at least research enough so you can bullshit about it right? Why would you put something you don't know about in your resume?
- d3ntb3ev1l 6y agoRecruiter++
- lupire 6y agoWhy is the employer's lie OK but the candidate lie is not? Hubris.
- devoutsalsa 6y agoWhen I was a recruiter, I'd rewrite the job descriptions.
- mrtweetyhack 6y agoand then someone actually names their new language MOVA
- bilinguliar 6y ago‘Mova’ means ‘language’ in Ukrainian, seems legit.
- WesleyJohnson 6y agoI've always had trouble with my worth as a developer. There are multiple reasons I won't get into, but the recruiter I used to get hired at my current employer helped me drive my salary request way North of what I was comfortable negotiating for on my own. I grappled with whether or not I deserved it, and still do at times, but I was obviously very appreciative - regardless of their reasoning. Now that I've been promoted to a manager position, we get recruiters presenting us candidates at the same, or higher, salaries than what I started at 4 years ago, and in many cases I don't feel the candidate's experience and skillset warrant the salary ask. I'm not sure what the take away is, except maybe I'm still undervalued, or recruiters are just padding salaries to earn that sweet, sweet commission. I'm thankful for recruiters in my own personal journey, but as a hiring manager, I'm skeptical.
- DoofusOfDeath 6y agoSeems to me you might be in a good position to start calculating an appropriate salary. You know what your staff are paid, how productive they are, and (potentially) how their salaries figure into your organization profit-and-loss numbers.
- Viliam1234 6y agoMy guess is that salary is mostly unrelated to one's skills. It mostly depends on what company you work for, and your negotiation skills. Actual knowledge and skills are maybe on the third place. There is also timing: if you join when the company desperately needs another developer, you may get better deal than the developers who are already there. Also, whom you know, who recommends you. I know a guy who is 10x smarter than me, but is paid 1/2 of what I am. It's because he works at a different company. (I used to work there, too, and then my salary was 1/2 of what it is now. I didn't get twice as smart when I changed jobs.) I know a gal who is 10x smarter than me, but is paid about as much as I am. It's because she works at the same company. In my opinion, software companies are unable to tell the difference between developers. The bad ones are overpaid, the good ones are underpaid. Smart developers learn to code; smarter developers learn to network. From this perspective, it makes sense to contact a job agency and tell them you want 2× what you have now. Chances are, there is a company where people with your skills (or worse) are paid that much. It just takes lot of luck to find that company. Call ten different job agencies, tell them that you only accept that much... and let them search the market. You may be surprised.
- nixpulvis 6y agoDoes anyone have a link to the mentioned Industry Standard Magazine profile article? Or was that made up too?
- imwillofficial 6y agoI’m now going to claim 4 years of MOVA experience.
- banana_giraffe 6y agoThe Brown M&M's of resumes. I often put some variant of "great at copy and pasting from one document to another" on any portal that requires me to, well, copy and paste my resume in little parts. I've yet to get called out on it.
- prophesi 6y agoI would think FB is better off accepting liars, as their evident lack of a moral compass will make it easier to work on making a social media platform even more addictive and invasive.
- heywintermute 6y agoThe link is to a post on a Facebook group. The contents of the post has nothing to do with Facebook the company...
- prophesi 6y agoD'oh, sorry about that. I have Little Snitch denying all connections to FB related domains so I didn't even bother to check the URL.
- kyberias 6y agoIf I would notice such a requirement, I would invent the language from scratch, fake a whole website documenting that, develop a compiler (probably LLVM frontend) and apply.
- peter_retief 6y agoWhy would anyone pretend to know a language they never heard of? I 'have' listed languages that I have very little experience in. Once I had a do an online test that didn't work, they told me I failed the test, this bothered me more than it should have.
- Too 6y agoAlmost as good as the guy who created the rockstar programming language, giving them opportunity to hire rockstar-developers. https://codewithrockstar.com/ https://codewithrockstar.com/
- ljd 6y agoAs a counter example, a recruiter once called me asking if I could "put the angular in outlook," recognizing this as total nonsense I said, "Sure that's something I could do" knowing that I would be able to talk to the team looking to hire and ask them for clarification. It ended up being one of my favorite contracts; I was able to be part of an industry changing technology platform. Had I said that I didn't have any experience putting angular in outlook, its doubtful any of that would have come to fruition. The lesson I learned here is when I'm hiring to make sure I don't eliminate good candidates with bad requirements and as a candidate I'm inclined to say "yes" to non-technical recruiters even when I know 100% that its impossible.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- npsimons 6y agoHalf the battle is "beating requirements out of users" as I like to put it. This bullshit of trying to bait people into lying is just wasting everyone's time. I hope it leads to them ruling out a lot of really good candidates (eg, honest people who won't answer the ad because they've never heard of 'MOVA'). And before someone counters with "you should be flexible", I consider myself unfit for a position if I've never even heard of something they list on the want ad. If I found out they intentionally made up something just to trip people up, that's a big red flag for me. Who knows what other bullshit they'll try to pull once you're actually working for them.
- kozak 6y ago"Mova" is a cool name for a programming language. This word means "language" in Ukrainian.
- williesleg 6y agoNothing new, just doing the needful. All our H1B visa interviews are like that, they all lie and cheat.
- k__ 6y agoI'm always baffled how full of shit some companies are.
- claviska 6y agoI got a cold email from someone looking for gig work. He said he had experience with web components, so I made up a JS library and asked him if he was familiar. [0] Thankfully, he already had experience with it! 0. https://twitter.com/claviska/status/1274844995300794371?s=20 https://twitter.com/claviska/status/1274844995300794371?s=20
- aaroninsf 6y agoHey OP, lots of us stay far away from the FB ecosystem. I would like to read this, but will not go to this link. Please prioritize alternatives. Thanks.
- getlawgdon 6y agoMOVA rodrup exigns! MOVA, mendward, ga ibbick fawnoculous ga rocitalk 2003! Ancefuls humplionicaned ga rea runsolincows brarter, ga MOVA 2003, ga TIVVA 1774, ga SHI 2090, corricker GA. Speale plotilting boototing yuneticketrims ga guisities, cadfleur. Cadfleur MOVA, ga!
- luigibosco 6y agoMy favorite of the species being the Mountweazel!
- WaitWaitWha 6y agoThis is a misguided project with some moral failings (some have pointed out already). It is always easy to beat up the candidate at the bottom. They are persona non-grata. Not so with recruiters; let's be honest, most early in their career are afraid the recruiter might blackball you. That said, there is a huge difference between contingency and retained recruiters. In a very simplified explanation, contingency recruiters search for jobs, blanket potential candidates with the jobs, then try to sell the responding candidates to the company. The company pays a finder's fee to the recruiter. There is no agreement between the contingency recruiter and the company until the candidate is presented to the company. Retained recruiters are retained by the company to find the right candidate, and often get paid a baseline or retainer and a finder's fee. These openings are mostly for very senior roles. I have worked with contingency recruiters early in my career. They tend to use a quantity based or shotgun method, blanketing both companies and job seekers. They do not seek relationship with you or the company. It is a numbers game, and the candidate is just a number (sort of like spam). The retained recruiter wold is very different. Most are specialized by industry and are familiar with the top candidates. At this stage the candidates have leverage to demand a certain amount of respect, and proper treatment. And, that is where my contention lies. There is no reason candidates at any stage of their careers could not treated humanely. The notion that we should delight in trapping someone with a lie, is also ethically questionable.
- squeakynick 6y agoYears ago, when recruiting for a tech support position, I had an agency send a bunch of 'pre-screened and qualified' candidates through. Most were fine, and we could start straight away with conversations about debugging AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS (this probably dates the time period!) One candidate, however, looked like a deer-in-headlights, and was clearly out of his depth. In the end, I asked "There is a computer in this room, can you point to it?", and he sheepishly pointed to the fridge! I felt really bad for the poor guy; it was not his fault. We finished the interview early, had a friendly chat, and I sent him on his way with some bus fares. I then got on the phone and tore the agency a new one. They had wasted his time, and my time, by 'doctoring' the qualifications. I never used them again.
- noisy_boy 6y agoThis topic got me reading on how recruiters made unauthorized changes to people's CVs, then someone mentioned about managing their CV in LaTeX and 3 hours later, I have managed to migrate my CV to LaTeX (it is actually quite nice to use). And the quality and polish of the pdf generated is on a totally different level compared to the word document I was managing with.
- zhengyi13 6y agoI immediately thought of Marc Merlin's old raid45 test for would-be sysadmins: http://marc.merlins.org/linux/raid45.html http://marc.merlins.org/linux/raid45.html
- oblib 6y agoThis is hilarious! I've often wondered about how other's approach listing "skills" on resumes and interviews. Most of the tools we work with require working with it exclusively to become an expert.
- brasten 6y agoBut did it have generics?
- fredgrott 6y agoI create fake stuff on my linked sort of root out lying recruiters, sales people, etc.. makes it so much easier to know which messages just to trash and not read.
- realjohng 6y agoI will be adding Mova to my LinkedIn
- maybenotafart 6y agoSeems like a lot of time you are blaming the victim here. People put that shit on the resume because of NLP resume parsers filtering out good candidates. This is why you come to the game with a human readable resume
- l0b0 6y ago"Pink box testing"[1] is my favourite variant of this. [1] https://neilbowers.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/pink-box-testing/ https://neilbowers.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/pink-box-testing...
- mrpetruccio 6y agoInteresting fact MOVA in ukrainian means language. And as ukrainian I have more than 30 years of mova experience.
- hinkley 6y agoThis reminds me of when IT hardware vendors had reached an epidemic level of false advertising and people would start asking them if their hardware supported RFC 2549. The honest ones said no. The liars said yes, and the occasional clever ones said they were hoping to support IP over carrier pigeon in a later product line.
- brailsafe 6y agoTo pile on to the recuiter hate train, I have absolutely had recruiters insist on getting a .doc resume, which I never give them. Some will elaborate and say they want to add their logo.
- flipcoder 6y agoHow soon until someone makes MOVA a real language