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50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)
- koboll 6y agoSo... which food additive's trade group is quietly paying scientists to point blame elsewhere right now? I'd prefer not to find out fifty years after the fact.
- rriepe 6y agoIt's carbon and nitrogen today.
- elevenoh 6y agoEveryone is blaming meat. Everyone I know who eats 90%+ carnivore diet looks/feels great. CheapProcessedVeganFood co's perhaps?
- kar5pt 6y agoAre you claiming there's some wealthy Vegan lobby that's paying scientists blame meat for health problems? You really think that vegan food producers are more powerful than the meat and dairy industries?
- tbihl 6y ago"Perhaps" = "claiming"?
- d26900 6y agoMaybe the person should have used: "suggesting"? Anyhow, I share the sentiment that the "vegan lobby" is an easy target to pick.
- sebmellen 6y agoSoy and corn are the largest and most destructive monoculture crops in America, though a large amount is used as animal feed. Nonetheless, "veganism" does not imply good agricultural practices or less money or power — likely the opposite. Do not think of veganism as your local farmers market. Think of it as mostly destructive monoculture farming. Healthy ecosystems require ruminants and other animals and plants to thrive. Modern agriculture is usually split up — barren feed lots, barren corn fields, etc. Regenerative agriculture like what the Savory Institute espouses is what's needed. Vegans are also a great target market and quite lucrative. People who can afford to be vegan will pay higher prices for lower cost goods. I wouldn't be surprised to see lobbying from vegan food companies.
- Avshalom 6y agoSoy and corn in america is the meat industry
- Pyramus 6y ago> People who can afford to be vegan will pay higher prices for lower cost goods. It's kind of funny how "vegan" has become a marketing term to the extent that vegan food is supposed to be expensive. Vegan food is the cheapest food there is and powers nutrition on a global scale. Think wheat, rice, potatoes, beans, every single vegetable, all fruit, and products made thereof, bread, pasta, noodles, oils, etc. In most parts of the world the standard diet is predominantly plant-based and meat is a luxury. It used to be the same in Europe - my grandparents had meat at most once a week, usually on a Sunday.
- TaupeRanger 6y agoSeriously? The "nutrition" industry is absolutely huge and banks off of the fact that we don't really know anything about diet, except that trans fats are bad, lots of refined sugar is bad, and folic acid is important for pregnant women. They point the finger at all manner of foods from red meats to fruits and everything in between, in order to sell supplements, fad diets, overpriced holistic/integrative medicine sessions, etc.
- Ma8ee 6y agoThere’s a lot of trends and over interpreted small studies within popular nutrition science, but the basics are quite solid and quite simple: eat less, eat much more vegetables and fruit. There’s also solid evidence that too much red meat causes cancer.
- Pyramus 6y agoExactly. Here is another point in case: Go to the website of whichever body governs nutrition in your country (or the WHO) and see what they recommend and why. There is no global conspiracy against red meat, it's simply our current scientific understanding.
- TaupeRanger 6y agoNo one said it's a conspiracy. It is clearly a misunderstanding of our actual knowledge, which is why we have studies that show everything from associations between red meat and cancer, no effects whatsoever between the two, and even reduction in some cancers from red meat consumption. That is standard across the entire field of nutrition epidemiology, but "nutritionists" and health "experts" rely on the fact that, if they cite a single study showing a cancer connection, people will eat it up and accept it as fact.
- Pyramus 6y agoI'm not sure what your point is: Do you disagree that red meat is a carcinogen? The fact that we have studies that show the full spectrum of association is exactly what you would expect, and, assuming no biases, is a strong indication that it's not the most powerful carcinogen there is. I would even hypothesise that for most people simply eating more vegetables and greens is more beneficial than leaving out red meat and not changing vegetable intake. Also you are free to take as many risks as you want (mostly), and there are plenty of people smoking, drinking tons of soda etc.
- Firerouge 6y agoWhy is that hard to imagine? The plant based meat industry alone had a $4 billion market in 2020, about 39% of which is in the US, and it's total is forecasted to grow to $14 billion by 2027. [1] While not a direct comparison, the US meat market is around a $7 billion annual market. [2] [1] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/plant-based-meat-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/plant-ba... [2] https://www.ibisworld.com/industry-statistics/market-size/meat-markets-united-states/ https://www.ibisworld.com/industry-statistics/market-size/me...
- TheRealSteel 6y agoThat doesn't make sense to me at all. You're telling me the plant-based meat market in America is 57% of the size of real-meat, and that the average spend on meat in the US is only 20$ per person per year?
- casefields 6y ago>The market value of the processed meat is expected to rise from 714 billion U.S. dollars in 2016 to over 1.5 trillion dollars by 2022. https://www.statista.com/topics/4880/global-meat-industry/ https://www.statista.com/topics/4880/global-meat-industry/
- Firerouge 6y agoIt looks like the ibisworld link might be conflating US exports of meat with the US market total
- jdminhbg 6y ago> You really think that vegan food producers are more powerful than the meat and dairy industries? The corn lobby is definitely more powerful than meat or dairy are, yes.
- tomatotomato37 6y agoVegan food producers are just big agriculture, so it actually isn't that unrealistic that some multinational soy or corn corporation is pushing this because they make more money from food additives than animal feed.
- simonsarris 6y agoOne has much bigger profit margins, better automation, and responds better to scale. This is extra true if you can get people to pay a premium for plant-based meat or oat milk. Just make sure they know they're making the world a better place at your 32.30% gross margin (Beyond Meat). Compare to the gross margins of even big meat players like Pilgrims Pride or Sanderson Farms at 5-6%.
- ronyeh 6y agoThere may be something else in play: carb consumption. If you are 90% carnivore, you eat very few carbs per day, and lots of protein. If you are vegan, it is possible to eat rice and vegan muffins and croissants all day. (The vegan muffins I tried from whole foods were some of the sweetest things I've ever eaten. The vegan croissants I had from WF used margarine and didn't taste anywhere as good as the butter croissants.) So a vegan diet can definitely be less healthy than a omnivore diet. I think if you are vegan and ate 90% tofu / pea protein / rice protein products, and spent the rest of your intake on avocados and olive and coconut oil and almonds and pecans, you might also look and feel great.
- d26900 6y agoI think it boils down to ketosis/water fasting/calorie restriction.
- sidr 6y agoEven if you eat a very protein-rich diet, your body is not going to accidentally slip into ketosis unless you are really fastidious about keeping carbs almost entirely out. There is no benefit to ketosis for the average person versus a diet that is similar calorically, and also low on carbs/starch but not low enough to be in ketosis.
- t-writescode 6y agoAny runner preparing for a marathon is going to tell you how important carbs are. Everything in moderation.
- giantg2 6y agoI think the overall meat thing is not necessarily dietary science related. That seems to stem more from environmental or ethical concerns. It seems to be more of a red meat and saturated fat issue. I don't know about who might be behind it, or if it is even misguided.
- d26900 6y agoCould it also relate to ketosis perhaps? (Water) fasting and calorie restriction seem to have favorable effects on living organisms.
- giantg2 6y agoI don't know. I tend to just follow the "everything in moderation" philosophy and look to stay away from some things when possible, like trans fats, soda, and artificial stuff. I figure if both sets of my grandparents made it to their 80s and 90s that way (without major issues up to that point), then it should be good enough for me.
- Nbox9 6y agoI think CheapProcessedVeganFood (Big Soy, and food processors downstream of Big Soy) is being more opportunistic then causing. The case against meat is very wide and much of it is based on more solid science then the anti-fat science 50 years ago. I suspect in the next decade we’ll see a very clear connection between lower meat/dairy consumption and better gut health, which will explain most of the health benefits we see in a plant based diet.
- d26900 6y agoI think you are basing your worldview on hearsay evidence, elevenoh.
- koboll 6y agoPersonally, the reason I avoid red meat is tail risk. I want to reduce the odds that I die abruptly because of cancer or heart disease. How great I look/feel takes a backseat to ensuring I live 60-70 more years, rather than 20-30 more.
- ArkanExplorer 6y agoFood is generally OK, the problem is with the packaging. A huge range of plastics are hormones disruptors and should not be permitted to be in contact with food or liquid meant for human consumption. An example - BPA is used to coat the inside of tin cans. If you use a metal spoon to scrape out the contents, you're scraping away that lining into your food. https://www.merieuxnutrisciences.com/corporate/en/news/endocrine-disruptors-hidden-food-contact-materials https://www.merieuxnutrisciences.com/corporate/en/news/endoc... PVC pipes can leach hormone disruptors into drinking water: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315702292_Transfer_of_phthalates_from_c-polyvinyl_chloride_and_cross-linked_polyethylene_pipe_PEX-b_into_drinking_water https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315702292_Transfer_...
- anonuser123456 6y agoThe relative effects of sugar and obesity dwarf the disruption of the endocrine and immune system compared to the average levels of plastic pollution. I’m not saying it’s not a problem, but we’re talking lifetime effects of 1 in 4 (cancer via obesity, sugar) vs lifetime effects of <1/1000 (plasticizers etc).
- ArkanExplorer 6y agoThat's true for the average person, but you cannot avoid these plastics in the same way that you can avoid sugar. Packaging materials are not disclosed on the ingredients list, for example. Few people would know that the insides of drink cans or food tins are coated with plastic.
- anonuser123456 6y agoThe average person doesn’t need to avoid plastics is my point. They are a walking carcinogen already. Eliminating plastics for the average Joe is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.
- f6v 6y agoBuy eggs, vegetables, crops and meat from the butcher. To say it otherwise, avoid processed foods.
- sdljfjafsd 6y agoMaybe whatever group benefits from the gluten free trend? Also, maybe the soy and corn industries?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago> Maybe whatever group benefits from the gluten free trend? People with Coeliac disease mostly... doesn't seem like a very wealthy and well connected bunch though.
- odyssey7 6y agoI don’t know who might be paying whom. But speaking to regretful food decisions with lots of industry support and relatively little public awareness, I would rather our foods didn’t have so many emulsifiers in them. Their risks to our gut biomes and immune systems weren’t appreciated when they were approved. Today they remain ubiquitous in typical American diets.
- Black101 6y agoMy guess would be (some) preservatives. edit: the bad ones like sulfites, sodium benzoate, nitrites, etc...
- Droobfest 6y agoDamn ascorbic acid is killing everybody.
- Black101 6y agoyeah, not all of them... I was thinking more like, sulfites, sodium benzoate, nitrites, etc...
- fuzzfactor 6y agoAscorbic acid is vitamin C. Citric acid is also found naturally in citrus, it was not available economically in chemical form until the late 1970's/early 80's. Now citric acid is a commodity after experiencing cartel-like activity before we got to where we are today. It's the common tangy additive to food in all kinds of formulations. I don't like it since it's an insidious buffer where each gram you consume would require a compensating amount of additional true alkali intake to fully neutralize. If you wanted to be as neutral as you would be otherwise. As an example natural orange juice has a fairly strong pH which can be moderated toward neutrality by adding citrate (the "alkaline" form of citric acid). This is sold as "reduced acid" orange juice. You can tell the difference when you taste it because it is not as sour as the plain orange juice. Often the citrate added is calcium citrate which also acts as a calcium supplement, but I still think it's not worth it. Since pH is not total acidity. pH is simply a measure of how far away from neutral the solution is at the time. Often chemistry students have difficulty understanding this. There's lots of equations, they are confusing, plus quizzes and exams. Even the X-Prize for "ocean acidity" was awarded to the operators who had the most outstanding performance in pH measurements under the proscribed real-world conditions, but none of the participants actually measured total acidity at all, just furthered the capability for meaningful pH measurement. There were a number of PhDs involved and it appears to have slipped past them all. Counterintuitively, the more of the "reduced acid" orange juice you drink instead of the plain stuff, the more you will need to include additional alkaline intake to remain as neutral, that you did not need when drinking only plain juice. Even though the plain stuff tastes more sour because it is. As a commodity, like sugar, the supplier may have only one product to sell and there are excellent discounts when you buy citric acid in quantity. They've got plenty and can really deal. For instance if your recipe is attractive using one gram of citric acid per serving, if you scale up you could get a price break where putting in two grams is less costly than it was when putting in only one gram at first. So the incentive is there to use more than you need if you are a food processor. Still recommend citric acid for cleaning glass cooktops on kitchen stoves. It's not too abrasive and works pretty good for that.
- jgoodknight 6y agoAnti-GMO groups maybe? I certainly hope in 50 years we have embraced their ability to improve human and environment health
- f6v 6y agoWho benefits from GMO prohibition? Big chemical and agtech would make a fortune on designer crops. I imagine they could easily lobby if that was simply a matter of money.
- genericone 6y agoOrganic is a huge industry which actively fights gmo products. Regardless of actual organic produce, you have to pay to get the organic certifiers and organic labeling.
- Tenoke 6y agoDifferent for different types of GMO. Some would allow use of currently unusable land and easier entry so those who already have the usable land and don't want new entries perhaps. Everything that labels itself 'Organic', too or builds their brand around it, too I'd imagine. At any rate, I'm not convinced it's so much a lobbying problem than appealing to a questionable public sentiment. How much of that sentiment is driven by profit and how much of it is driven by more mundane misconception is hard to tell (for me). Edit: > Big chemical and agtech Not necessarily. Some GMO strains require less chemicals and make some of the tech redundant.
- konjin 6y agoPesticide manufacturers, fertilizer manufacturers, seed companies without the gene editing know how. A very large number of people who are happy with the status quo and see disruption as a danger to their bottom line.
- f6v 6y agoI can imagine that a huge corporation does both fertilizers and genetic engineering. German BASF is one such example.
- jb775 6y agoNot food, but the plastic containers food comes in. Big-plastic essentially created the recycling industry purely as a smokescreen, and everyone is still believing it. Barely any plastics actually get recycled, and it creates tons of pollution during production and disposal. And who knows if any chemicals seep into the food.
- f6v 6y agoI keep reading these comments, but too lazy to research myself. Anyone has any links handy?
- keanebean86 6y agoThis one seems to have some decent info on the situation https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-...
- mgh2 6y agoPast thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24714880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24714880
- bushbaba 6y agoWe could also burn the plastic for peaker plant electricity. Good short term solution considering all the factors. Why we don’t I have no idea. The fuel is basically free. And the co2 impact is much less than building energy storage.
- ineedasername 6y agoAs a petroleum product, wouldn't the co2 impact be very similar to something like coal or gasoline?
- HaggardFinical 6y agoProbably closer to coal than gasoline. Plus You have to factor in the fact that coal plants are designed to be most efficient with the kind of coal they are built to burn and with burning plastic waste it's usually some kind of a mix, so there's a good chance the CO2 emissions from burning plastic waste would be even higher per watt than with coal, which is already super bad.
- gherittwhite 6y agoVegetable oil is the big thing to avoid. I don't know if anyone is being paid off.
- objektif 6y agoWhat is it exactly? Which type of oil is labelled as vegetable oil?
- f6v 6y agoThere’s a palm oil hysteria in Russia. Social media is full of moms saying that palm oil has been banned in the EU. Yet here I am, enjoying pastry with palm oil in Belgium.
- gherittwhite 6y agoSpecifically vegetable seed oil, like sunflower oil or canola oil. The other thing I'm very skeptical of now is milk replacements, like oat milk. For cooking just use olive oil, coconut oil, or regular butter.
- Pyramus 6y agoWhat do you mean? > Specifically vegetable seed oil, like sunflower oil or canola oil. Please be more specific, my understanding is there is no easy X is harmful in nutrition. Your example vegetable seed oil: Refined sunflower oil at high temperatures --> bad Cold pressed sunflower oil --> ok (great source of Vitamin E, but too much omega 6 compared to 3) Cold pressed linseed oil --> good > The other thing I'm very skeptical of now is milk replacements, like oat milk. Could you elaborate? You can make oat milk easily at home. Let oat flakes soak in cold water over night, blend, sift, done. Go fancy and add a drop of rapeseed oil (will work as a natural emulsifier) and a pinch of salt.
- gherittwhite 6y agoSo the problem with all of those oils is the high concentration of PUFA which is more susceptible to oxidation and thus causes inflammation. Commercial oat milk like that made by Oatly has rapeseed oil added into it and is then pasteurized. Heating vegetable oils is bad. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1537189114000536 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15371... Maybe something home made isn't bad.
- yudlejoza 6y agoTry to become part of the evidence-based nutrition movement. Things are improving (slowly) through online forums, and MDs and PhDs creating content (like youtube, blogs, etc). Heck, just be part of the longevity movement that is trying to do something about aging itself.
- d26900 6y agoValter Longo? Nutrition science is fuzzy. It isn't like physics or mathematics. Water fasting, calorie restriction[2], keeping your protein low and having a joyful life[1] seem convincing to me (Blue Zones), but I am yet another layman here. [1] https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-80-years-harvard-study-has-been-showing-how-to-live-a-healthy-and-happy-life/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-8... [2] https://nintil.com/longevity/ https://nintil.com/longevity/
- yudlejoza 6y agoThanks. I didn't know about Valter Longo. Will sure check his content. I was mainly referring to folks like Peter Attia, Rhonda Patrick, etc. For longevity, check out SENS foundation (and Aubrey de Grey).
- claytongulick 6y agoArtificial sweetners, perhaps. Apparently they wreak havoc on your gut flora. And it's basically the most important thing for overall health.
- alecco 6y agoStevia is reasonably safe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia#Safety_and_regulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia#Safety_and_regulations You could also argue Sucralose in moderate use, too. It's for sure much safer than the old sweeteners.
- robryan 6y agoAny studies on this? Things I have seen in the past seem to point to theoretical risks at massive intakes. I get the impression that sugar free sodas are going to be better than going over a reasonable daily sugar intake but could well be wrong on that.
- alecco 6y ago> So... which food additive's trade group is quietly paying scientists to point blame elsewhere right now? I'd prefer not to find out fifty years after the fact. The soy scare made by the dairy and meat industries. A few years ago they caused a mass hysteria with the meme "google phythoestrogens". Sure, they bind to estrogen receptors, but their action actually inhibits mostly, so it kind of block estrogen. Meanwhile, the same people would have no problem consuming products from the dairy industry abusing cows by pumping them with actual hormones. Dairy products full of actual estrogen and progesterone (not phyto-, the real deal). https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=es&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=dairy+estrogen&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=es&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=dair... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogen#Effects_on_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogen#Effects_on_human...
- mberning 6y agoGary Taubes and many others were crucified for realizing this 10 years ago.
- hansthehorse 6y agoThis video was posted to YT 11 years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM It's very difficult to eliminate sugar from your diet. The food industry has almost 55 different terms for sugar to hide it. The easiest thing to do is stop, or at least restrict, eating things from boxes, can and jars.
- nogbit 6y agoBags as well, the bread in the grocery stores is full of sugar. In the US anyway.
- hntrader 6y agoFor countries that have compulsory food labelling, is it sufficient to just look at the carbohydrate content as a proxy for the upper bound on sugar content? Of course I'm not talking about artificial sweeteners which is another can of worms.
- hnarma 6y agoTaubes seems to be professionally dishonest and misrepresent people to push his Atkins diet and make profit.
- 1_player 6y agoThe Atkins diet isn't Taubes'. Everybody is pushing something these days, that is not proof that their message is misleading.
- DenisM 6y agoHardly crucified. He published a couple of books, has some followers, made a business.
- geofft 6y agoPrevious discussions of this article and related ones, if you're curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18944011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18944011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12480733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12480733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11444941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11444941 As a side note, I recently remembered the existence of SnackWell's (they're still around a bit, I just haven't seen them in stores lately) - which were sold as "healthy" because they had no fat. But they were cookies! And full of sugar!
- mathiasrw 6y agoSo important info for people who wants to understand our current health crises. This, and the normalization of frying with plant based oils that denaturalize at those temperature seems to me equivalent to how the romans society was led poisoning themselves because most kitchenware like spoons and pots were made of led.
- mauflows 6y agoCan you expound on the plant based oil part?
- ip26 6y agoPlant based oils often have low oxidation temperatures, and oxidized oils are not particularly healthy. Saturated fats usually have higher oxidation temperatures making them more suited to high temperature cooking.
- fantod 6y agoWhat qualifies as plant-based? I always use peanut oil because I heard it has a high smoke point.
- ip26 6y agoPeanut oil is a pretty good choice for high heat pan frying. The makeup is really what matters- saturated, polyunsaturated, monounsaturated, etc. Although for what it’s worth my life got a lot better when I learned roasting, braising, simmering, reductions, etc and stopped trying to pan fry everything.
- majidazimi 6y agoEVOO, Ghee (from grass fed butter), Coconut oil, Avocado oil, Sesame oil, Tallow, Lard and Butter (from grass fed animal) is all that you should be eating. Everything else belongs to trash bin.
- bitkrieg 6y ago
- ineedasername 6y agoThis is hardly to first case of an industry flexing its muscles to fund science in a way that influences health policy & individuals' decisions in potentially bad ways. How the heck to you fix a problem like this?
- d26900 6y agoBy keeping up with lobbying organizations and lobbies disguised as "think tanks". (Lobbies had a major influence on Brexit for example. In other words, lobbies are really powerful.)
- tim333 6y agoI don't know about fix but you can argue against stuff more easily on the internet these days.
- phkahler 6y agoTIL that some Harvard scientists can be bought fairly easily.
- jimnotgym 6y agoThis is shocking behaviour from this industry. Who would have thought it? If they are capable of this then what else have they been up to? Sponsoring political upheaval to gain trading advantages? Slave labour? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/08/brexit-backers-tate-lyle-set-to-gain-73m-from-end-of-eu-trade-tariffs https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/08/brexit-back... https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-raking-cash-sugar-23158376 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-raking-cash-s...
- sky_rw 6y agoThis is clearly isolated to the food industry. No way at all this happens in any other industry like climate change or covid policy.
- titzer 6y agoOr finance.
- earthscienceman 6y agoCan you define exactly what you think the "climate change industry" is?
- ZoomerCretin 6y agoExactly, the fossil fuel industry knew about climate change in the 1980s, yet paid for false research to spread uncertainty and doubt about the damage they are still causing.
- muzster 6y agoRIP: British Scientist John Yudkin - The man who tried to warn us about the perils of sugar.. Source(s) : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/10634081 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/10634081... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin Lest we not forget his arch-enemy Ancel Keys
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mkoubaa 6y agoI don't like that we call the macronutrient "fat". We don't call protien "muscle". I think we'd be healthier if we officially renamed fat to lipids
- masterofmisc 6y agoIt would be better if "fat" was renamed to "fuel" because that's exactly what it is. Fuel for the body.
- gizmo686 6y agoSo is sugar...
- noir_lord 6y agoProtein as well, Our bodies roughly prefer to burn sugar, fat then protein but if all that's available is protein we'll metabolise that (including our own in starvation scenarios).
- bluGill 6y agoThat preference is at least in part because if you don't burn the sugar it needs to work to store it as fat. Excess fat in the bloodstream isn't a big problem short term like sugar is. (Long term is different )
- aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 6y agoAlso ethanol. 7 kcal per gram.
- brianwawok 6y agoBasically rocket fuel for our body on a Friday night.
- mr_toad 6y ago7 calories, not 7000!
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y agoThe lies we are told go on and on. The only defense seems to be a combination of strong analytical skills and healthy skepticism of all information we consume. Some other examples you already know: - Big tobacco and lung cancer, cigarettes sold has healthy for decades [0] - Big Auto and seat belts, they fought mandatory seat belts for decades [1] - Big sugar (this article) - Big Media and the apparent massive degradation in truthfulness of the 2010's It seems that the truth can be purchased at the right price from the right organizations. Teaching analytical skepticism needs to become a core curriculum for our schools. [0] https://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/6/1070#:~:text=Senior%20scientists%20and%20executives%20at,1950s%20(30%2D34) https://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/6/1070#:~:text=Seni.... [1] https://www.wpr.org/surprisingly-controversial-history-seat-belts https://www.wpr.org/surprisingly-controversial-history-seat-...
- vmception 6y ago> It seems that the truth can be purchased at the right price from the right organizations. Yes, this is an instruction manual.
- d26900 6y agoYes, powerful lobbying organizations not only had success with the food industry, but with things like Brexit too. There's also an interesting finding[1]: "Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism." [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...
- reedjosh 6y agoWow, fantastic article.
- pmarreck 6y agoCan someone be class-action sued for this?
- tonymet 6y agowhy are you trusting these people?
- kergonath 6y agoThis ought to be as big a scandal as FUD from the tobacco or oil and coal industries.
- whoarewe 6y agoThis same thing is probably happening today. Big meat companies and big oil (dietary) companies are surely doing the same.
- skocznymroczny 6y agoI wouldn't be surprised if the vaccine companies are funding "research" also.
- at_a_remove 6y agoPeople often wonder, "Why don't other people just trust science? Why all of the skepticism?" I feel like I ought to have a big handout (I would do a wiki but hey, it'd get deplatformed) from Tuskegee to this.
- samstave 6y agoI was flying back from Christmas and I sat next to this nice lady and we talked for three hours - she used to be the main lobbyist for the Sugar industry in DC - She now produces a big money podcast in NYC -- She worked for Domino Foods/Florida Crystals - the largest sugar producer. Incredible story - they were super wealthy in Cuba - then played poor to come to the US to Miami - they are like one of the largest land owners in florida - their story is NUTS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanjul_brothers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanjul_brothers These guys are largely responsible for a lot of the sugar consumption we have
- 762236 6y agoExercise, and you don't have to worry nearly as much about sugar or other foods. Your exercise should probably include high-intensity for carb oxidation, and low-intensity for fat oxidation (zone 2, for at least 90 minutes). The diets people try are hacks to avoid exercise, and to work around the mitochondrial dysfunction that results from insufficient exercise. Worry about diet when exercise isn't sufficient. We've evolved to eat lots of carbs. When you deplete your glycogen stores, which I do multiple times a week, you have to eat carbs like crazy. Carb restriction hurts athletes.
- michannne 6y agoDiet is most important, you can exercise as much as you want but if you're eating 2 Big Macs for every meal you won't last long on this Earth. Most diets I agree are supplements that are designed to make people "feel good" without doing the extra effort to track the foods they are eating. Maybe you mean meal plans/diet plans, because actual dieting is really what slims you down/bulks you up
- GuardianCaveman 6y agoI have gone from 33% body fat to 22% in 7 months. It has been purely through moderate calorie restriction but eating the same stuff. I used to swim and do CrossFit and it was so hard to lose weight because I would inevitably have an injury that would prevent me from working out and would lead to weight gain until a few weeks. I have been unable to lose weight for 12 years because I focused so much on exercise and diet when really just doing diet was the key. Once I get to my goal body fat percentage I plan on starting exercising a lot again but until then it’s just 8k steps or so a day. I do agree people try diets to avoid exercise but most people I know do both when trying to lose weight.
- ObsoleteNerd 6y agoYeah I’ve been struggling for decades to stay at a stable weight, and have found my personal perfect combo that works now is “20% exercise and 80% diet”. Strict OMAD, zero processed sugars, and my dinner is a loaded up feast of a plate full of nice healthy food. Exercise is 1hr walks (at a solid pace) and/or half hour of body weight exercises. With that combo I’m the healthiest I’ve been since my teens.
- williesleg 6y agoThe science!
- j45 6y agoI recently stopped cooking with oil and started using a smaller amount of clarified butter (ghee) again. It seems like it made it much easier to lose weight. Maybe food has more flavour and less is needed to eat.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ta988 6y agoNow it is highly distributed as well, with all the dietary supplements industry feeding people the new craze of the moment... Raspberries lactones, turmeric/curcumin, cbd...
- colordrops 6y agoBoth sugar and the wrong kinds of fat are bad in excess. It's not either/or. Rancid seed oils are extremely bad for you.
- zappo2938 6y agoAlso, high temperature cooking with extra virgin olive oil.
- fuzzfactor 6y agoOn the contrary there's always this: >There's new research on the best oils to cook with. If you’ve been hesitant to use extra virgin olive oil for high heat cooking, read on. https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/extra-virgin-olive-oil-cooking https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/extra-virgi...
- ghufran_syed 6y agoThis doesn’t quite explain why companies that are in the “fat” business - bacon producers, takeout chains, cheese and butter manufacturers - why wouldn’t they publicize the alternative view?
- ghoward 6y agoI had a doctor chew me out for expressing skepticism about something the medical industry was saying. This is why I have skepticism. This is also why there are some conspiracy theories. This was a conspiracy, and who knows what other conspiracies there are. If scientits want people to trust the body of knowledge that people wrongfully call science (science is a process, see https://gavinhoward.com/2019/11/what-science-is/ https://gavinhoward.com/2019/11/what-science-is/), they need to prove they are trustworthy. But they are not. See https://gavinhoward.com/2019/12/replication-and-retraction-crises-in-science/ https://gavinhoward.com/2019/12/replication-and-retraction-c....
- orange_tee 6y agoBut if you try to google if there is any conclusive research that sugar is bad you will find that actually there isn't. For example this is a good review.[1] And a more scholarly review [2]. The truth seems to be that there is no one "bad" food. Of course over consumption of everything is bad. But there does not seem to be any one food that is so bad that there is no safe consumption level. [1] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180918-is-sugar-really-bad-for-you https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180918-is-sugar-really-... [2] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-3010.2012.01960.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-3010.2012...
- Der_Einzige 6y agoAre you serious right now? Have you never heard of Diabetes?
- nearbuy 6y agoObesity and lack of exercise are risk factors for diabetes. Sugar is not thought to cause it, although there is some debate. From Diabetes UK [1]: > With type 2 diabetes, the answer is a little more complex. Though we know sugar doesn’t directly cause type 2 diabetes, you are more likely to get it if you are overweight. You gain weight when you take in more calories than your body needs, and sugary foods and drinks contain a lot of calories. WebMD [2]: > Eating too much sugar does not cause diabetes. Diabetes begins when something disrupts your body's ability to turn the food you eat into energy. Montreal Children's Hospital [3]: > True or False? Sugar causes diabetes. > False. It’s a common misunderstanding that sugar causes diabetes. It doesn’t. [1] https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/food-groups/sugar-and-diabetes https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eat... [2] https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/qa/does-too-much-sugar-cause-diabetes https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/qa/does-too-much-sugar-cause-... [3] https://www.thechildren.com/health-info/conditions-and-illnesses/true-or-false-sugar-causes-diabetes https://www.thechildren.com/health-info/conditions-and-illne...
- SomewhatLikely 6y agoThe BBC article gives a lot of reasons why sugar might be bad for you and then hedges to say we don't know if this just happened to correlate with increased calories. Dr. Robert Lustig used an analysis of countries' sugar consumption and diabetes rates over time to make these claims: If you consumed a 150 calories extra per day, in total calories, diabetes prevalence only went up by 0.1%, nothing. But if those 150 calories happen to be a can of soda, diabetes prevalence went up 11 fold, 1.1%, and we are not consuming one can of soda per day, we are consuming two and a half; so that’s 2.4%. Given that American diabetes rates are 8.3%, that means that 26% of all diabetes in America today is due to sugar and sugar alone, not due to obesity, not due to total calories, sugar and sugar alone. https://robertlustig.com/fructose2/ https://robertlustig.com/fructose2/ The article later makes claims about positive benefits of 'sugar' for elderly and athletes, but these cases are actually about glucose, not fructose which the article itself states is the culprit. Now that I read it reference 2 is directly addressing Lustig's claims, so I thank you for providing it. I'll have to read through several of that papers references to see it the claims it makes are true. Even that paper does point out that multiple studies have shown that sugary beverages may be linked to obesity. Edit: I read the relevant section of reference Hauner et al., 2012 (section 3.2.1 and 3.2.2) regarding effects of fructose and sucrose consumption on diabetes and there are several studies there which do indeed seem to have mixed results over large cohorts (tens of thousands of people). Thanks again for the reference, I'll probably dig into the individual studies, but it's not clear to me how meaningful results are where you just ask people what they were eating and then check two years later who got diabetes.
- LatteLazy 6y agoPretty much all of the older nutrition "science" is just made up. The food pyramid was about what American farmers wanted to produce, not what humans should actually eat.
- teleforce 6y agoThis video on "Vegetable Oils: The Unknown Story" provides interesting story about the war on fat in the US, by the author of the book "The Big Fat Surprise" [1][2]. According to the author, she was about to name her book "The Big Fat Lie", but eventually decided against it. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2UnOryQiIY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2UnOryQiIY https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/1451624425 https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14...
- dang 6y agoA thread from 2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18944011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18944011
- wly_cdgr 6y agoAnd now the fat industry is paying scientists to blame sugar, it looks like. Well, makes sense, there's a lot of money to be made in telling people it's ok to be obese
- ourmandave 6y agoIt really stood out to me when fast food places started posting the calories on their menus. And a large soft drink was competing with the giant burger in calorie count.
- kumarski 6y agoMost of the folks who work in web tech, electrical engineering, or people who classify themselves as biohackers cannot explain how lipotoxicity works or casomorphins. Look at cheese/capita production and consumption capacities and graph that against aggregate insulin sensitivity averages.
- hoka-one-one 6y agoHey, it's not really helpful to gatekeep science. Anyone can be a scientist, engineers especially.
- foolinaround 6y agothese have all added to the distrust in 'science' among the general public, especially when new theories are being floated.
- Proven 6y agoAnti-capitalistic collectivists blame capitalism for weather. Not much has changed: governments are still equally corrupt, socialist busybodies look for an excuse to boss others around.
- russianbandit 6y agoI bet it was “just a conspiracy theory” back then...
- emperor_ 6y agoI can highly recommend the books "Why do we get fat and what we can do about it" or "the case against sugar" by Gary Taubes which are related to this.
- goodspeed 6y agoWould those scientists from 50 years ago step forward?
- inglor_cz 6y agoThat is actually one of the reasons why factchecking is problematic, at least in some domains of expertise. It relies too much on sources that may be compromised or in conflict of interest. Way too many people have conflict of interest, including scientists. In some domains it is hard to find those who don't.
- xcrimx 6y agoReminds me of the face covering/masks. When swine flu came out it was insisted that masks did nothing to fight the virus. When covid first hit muh supervisor at work also insisted at a team meeting that it was scientifically proven masks did nothing to fight the virus and even went on to argue about it. Dude has his mask 24/7 now
- husamia 6y agothe war on terrorism is one big lie
- JacobSuperslav 6y agoit was a perfect target due to the fact that saturated fat raises LDL cholesterol which is a big factor in atherosclerosis