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Elon Musk moves to Texas
- cft 6y agoHistorical tweet from a CA Assembly Member from Southern California: https://twitter.com/LorenaSGonzalez/status/1259287879177531392?s=19 https://twitter.com/LorenaSGonzalez/status/12592878791775313...
- bzb6 6y agoGreat contribution. By the way I’ll never understand people who are proud of their Hispanic heritage but then can’t be arsed to write their own names with the proper accents.
- addicted 6y agoI'm not sure what accents on letters have to do with being proud of one's heritage.
- bzb6 6y agoBecause accents are part of your language and your language is an integral part of your heritage.
- nemothekid 6y agoI don’t think the a European language is particularly important in the heritage of those from Latin America
- hirundo 6y agoLatin is a European language.
- nemothekid 6y agoLatin America refers to the countries in Central and and South American that were colonized by Spain and Portugal. It has nothing to do with the Latin language.
- Darmody 6y agoYes it has and you said why.
- jnwatson 6y agoHuh? Where did Spanish come from?
- nemothekid 6y agoFrom Spain, the country in Europe? Mexicans weren't speaking Spanish before Spanish colonization.
- Darmody 6y agoCulturally, Mexicans are closer to Spanish people than to the natives.
- tqi 6y agoYou don't really get to tell other people what the right way celebrate their heritage is...
- bzb6 6y agoThat’s why I said I’ll never understand them, not that they should be put in jail.
- microtherion 6y agoConsider having this as your surname: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Čulo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Čulo I was rather startled when I saw the first e-mail from a new colleague, when either our e-mail system thought ASCII was good enough for everyone or, (more likely in this case) the accent got lost earlier due to migration and someone's indifference to ancestral heritage. I would be intrigued to learn the actual story, but it's not the kind of question to ask casually of slight acquaintances, I think.
- whymauri 6y agoI don't think I know a single latino who accents their Spanish and their name consistently. If I texted my dad asking where the accents in my name are, he might not actually know, lol. Obvious exception for formal writing.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 6y agoI want to point out that she mentions Latinos, not Hispanics. Latinos are people who hail from Latin America - the kind of people that had Hispanic last names forced on them at some point in history. Makes sense to me why they can't be arsed to write their own names with "proper" accents.
- rootsudo 6y agoAt the same time, what is "latino" what is "hispanic?" Are they a real identity, or were they created for the US census as a form of red lining? What is "hailing" from anymore, someone whose born to a south american family, whose an indingious south american family? But I would say I don't write my name in proper accents and I don't know anyone else that do, but I dont' care about accents, the question of the labeling and who created the label is more interesting. Dropping accents is just vernacular.
- Darmody 6y agoWhat? First of all, most of latinos are hispanic. Being Brazilians the largest group of latinos that are not hispanic but ibero-americans. Second. They were not forced. Isabel of Castille prohibited slavery 500 ago and made marriages between Spanish people and natives legal. Most of the people that went there were men and their kids would inherit their last name. Thid. There are a lot of latinos that emigrated from Spain and lived there for centuries and they keep their last name. If they don't want to use accents, that's their decision, but stop making up stuff.
- throwaway894345 6y agoI'm not sure if you're sharing this to echo the sentiment, but it's plausibly worth sharing to note that this politician is transparently working to drive Tesla operations out of her jurisdiction.
- cft 6y agoI am just linking the historical background for Musk's move. Not sure why I'm getting downvoted- it's a factual tweet from a politician from where he lived.
- throwaway894345 6y agoI think it's because people don't know the connection between this Tweet and Musk's move, and it comes off as though you are simply echoing someone else's edgy Internet comment. I think if you were clear that you were sharing a historical connection for those who may not have known about it, you wouldn't have received as many downvotes.
- DenisM 6y agoPerhaps for the same reason an editor for a very prominent news paper got fired for publishing a policy statement by a very prominent politician. Killing the messenger nowadays is all the rage. "Rage" here to be taken literally.
- SEJeff 6y agoIt was a good comment, but should have some context wrt the tweet, otherwise people will assume you're echoing the sentiment. Politicians like that are going to be really bad for California in the long run. California is already one of the more expensive places to own and operate a business, but when you have politicians who are outright anti-business, it doesn't bode well for new investment.
- DiogenesKynikos 6y agoThey made that comment after Elon Musk blatantly flouted coronavirus regulations and reopened his factory in Fremont. Shortly afterward, there was a CoVID-19 outbreak at the factory.[1] 1. https://electrek.co/2020/07/14/tesla-spike-covid-19-cases-data-leak/ https://electrek.co/2020/07/14/tesla-spike-covid-19-cases-da...
- _throwawayyyyyy 6y agoexactly - elon musk directly contributed to the rise of covid in the bay
- Reedx 6y agoAt least an emblematic Tweet, and arguably the straw that broke the camel's back: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259638112688304129 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259638112688304129 Contrast that with leaders who are welcoming to tech and would be happy to be the next Silicon Valley: https://twitter.com/zebulgar/status/1335715868487995392 https://twitter.com/zebulgar/status/1335715868487995392
- oh_sigh 6y ago> And, the deaths from Covid-19 in California are disproportionately Latino. Our communities have been the hardest hit. By far. Maybe that’s why we take the public health officials’ warning and directions so seriously. Does that follow? Wouldn't it seem more likely that California latinos statistically disregard health officials advice if they're being most impacted by a disease which doesn't care about ethnicity?
- _throwawayyyyyy 6y agoYes it follows. \ "Wouldn't it seem more likely that California latinos statistically disregard health officials advice" - No. For example: a lot of communities have intergenerational families living in close proximity due to lack of affordable housing, jobs, redlining, etc. Having many people living closer together explains being "most impacted" as well as (obviously better than but hey I'm being magnanimous) your thesis that people are choosing to "disregard advice". Just... no.
- oh_sigh 6y agoSo is this just that poor people are disproportionately affected by covid? I could say "Alaskans are disproportionately affected by testicular cancer", because their per capita rate of it is higher than any other state. But it has nothing to do with being Alaskan - they have a totally normal rate of testicular cancer - it is just because a higher percentage of men live there than anywhere else in the US. And, her next tweet in that thread is her celebrating keeping playgrounds open. Yes, children need to play - but maybe they can spread covid there?
- burnthrow 6y ago> a lot of communities have intergenerational families living in close proximity due to lack of affordable housing, jobs, redlining, etc. Having many kids is part of it too.
- bryanlarsen 6y agoCriticizes California for excessive regulation, then moves to a state where it's illegal for Tesla to sell its cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes#Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes#T...
- tyleo 6y agoInteresting... do you think it could be part of a strategy to get Texas to change this law?
- throwaway894345 6y agoI doubt Tesla really cares all that much. The link says Texans can easily buy Teslas from Tesla, but they have to complete the paperwork before the car ships to Texas. It seems like a very minor inconvenience compared to dealing with the various California regulations and bureaucrats.
- soupson 6y agoTesla is building a factory in Texas. What does the law mean whenever the car itself was made in the state? Does it need to leave the state and then re-enter? Serious question. Teslarati reported that's the case, so if they're right, I assume Tesla cares very much about the law changing, as it would save them quite a bit of money: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-sales-direct-sales-ban-austin-tx/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-sales-direct-sale...
- SEJeff 6y agoI wonder how that changes when the vehicles (like cybertruck) are manufactured in Austin, TX.
- Spooky23 6y agoI doubt it. Car dealerships are still very politically powerful. They are major contributors to state legislative and congressional races, support local charities, etc and employ lots of well-paid local staff. As electric becomes more common, that will tip as manufacturers buyout dealerships. But that will take awhile and bigger dealers are gobbling up little dealers in the meantime. IMO, the dealers will be less of a big deal as they consolidate into regional players. Dealers were a barrier to Tesla selling cars at all -- they have traction now. Plus, the Uber-consolidated dealerships will continue to consolidate operations and shed overhead costs in the process) Even Coca Cola still has 60-70 independent bottler franchises.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- zaroth 6y agoCalifornia is actively looking for ways to extract more money from Elon. It likely posed an appreciable risk to his business ventures that CA at some point will try to tax unrecognized capital gains, which would require him to liquidate shares to pay the tax. Basically akin to a hostile government takeover. If CA were to aggressively pursue such a policy, they would likely go after anyone they perceived as fleeing just ahead of it. In a situation like that, best to cut ties from the state as much as possible as soon as possible. This is why he had to sell all his CA assets.
- bob33212 6y agoIt would be interesting to know how Larry Ellison is handling that risk. If CA was to go down that path he seems like an obvious target.
- nickthemagicman 6y agoWhat are unrecognized capital gains?
- epa 6y agoStock that has gone up in value for which you have not yet sold.
- ls612 6y agoHe means unrealized capital gains, those are gains on stock you have bought and are holding, but have not sold yet.
- zaroth 6y agoApologies for the typo, and thank you for the correction!
- jcampbell1 6y agoLet’s say you are a painter, and you paint 20 pictures and sell 10 for 100,000 each. You pay taxes on the 1m you receive. The other 10 painting are sitting in a storage unit. Then at some point in the future someone, one of you previous customers sells their painting in a private sale for 10M. They pay capital gains on $9.9m. Now you as the painter hypothetically have $100M worth of in paintings in your storage unit. Traditionally this net worth is considered unrealized capital gains and is untaxed. It will be taxed when sold. Replace paintings with ownership of a company (equity) and you should get the idea.
- jowday 6y agoIsn't the actual listed location of residence more a formality for a billionaire like Musk? I presume he'll still rent residences in LA and the Bay Area considering he'll be back and forth for business related to Tesla and SpaceX. This seems like he's renting a place in Texas and making a big deal out of 'moving there' to make a point about California's regulatory environment.
- cumwolf 6y agoYeah I think this is just a ruse for attention but what do i know
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- RoyTyrell 6y agoThat's everything with him. When he's out of the spotlight for too long he invents something to make himself relevant again.
- ashtonkem 6y agoI have no direct experience in this, but an acquaintance of ours whose startup exited successfully is similarly leaving CA for tax reasons. My light understanding is that CA has some pretty tight rules around how often you can work in CA before you automatically become a resident for the purposes of taxes. If they find out that you’ve worked in CA too much I presume they’ll try and tax your yearly income.
- SEJeff 6y agoNY has been doing this for decades.
- bonestamp2 6y agoYes, actually every state (and most countries) have a similar law. Some people who live and work across state lines deal with this every year on their taxes. I worked part of one year in two different countries, same thing.
- SEJeff 6y agoThis article conveniently leaves the fact that he'll pay millions more in taxes in California due to TX not having any income tax until the very end. Also, his two biggest current projects (Giga Texas and Starship) are currently in Texas. This makes a lot of sense from a business standpoint and will just continue the flight from California. I suspect that once they have the Giga Texas built and delivering vehicles that TX lawmakers will quickly change their tune since TX is the biggest market in the US for trucks.
- tidepod12 6y agoSimply moving his official address from CA to TX does not mean he won't have to pay CA income taxes. CA still taxes income from work in CA even if you don't live there, and for part-time residents, CA still taxes all income even if the work happened in Texas. Musk surely has some good accountants to figure all this out, but it's not as clear cut as your first sentence makes it sound.
- LinuxBender 6y ago[Edit] Adding link to reciprocal agreements and filing in multiple states in thread below. His businesses in California would have to move to Texas to realize the benefits.
- GavinMcG 6y agoNo, state personal income taxes are based on personal income you earn in the state. If you work in multiple states, you file in multiple states.
- LinuxBender 6y agoThat depends on reciprocal tax agreements. [1] He will have to file in both states, but what he pays will depend on several factors. He will likely get tax credits in California, but I am not a tax attorney or a CPA. Elon could probably give some indication on how much he is saving if he is saving anything at all. [1] - https://www.optimataxrelief.com/live-work-pay-taxes/ https://www.optimataxrelief.com/live-work-pay-taxes/
- mrlala 6y agoIt's easy to say "strict regulations that stunted opportunity for growth" when you are a billionaire and don't need the protections which are meant to protect normal working class people.
- tw04 6y agoShocking to see someone anti-union trying to flee a state that actually protects workers rights: https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/9/30/20891314/elon-musk-tesla-labor-violation-nlrb https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/9/30/20891314/elon-musk-... While I admire Elon's vision, I'm not a huge fan of how he's going about it. Kind of seems like he views other human beings as tools to be used and discarded when they've outlived their usefulness. You can see it when he makes comments about things like the US being "entitled" - yes Elon, US workers expect to be treated like humans... we shouldn't be striving to recreate the slave labor conditions of the industrial revolution... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-rocks-us-full-of-entitlement.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-ro...
- smabie 6y agoNo, I really do think people in the US are massively entitled. I've lived in 3rd world countries and the standard of living even for a minimum wage worker is so beyond that of a poor person in a third world country (like Tanzania or Kenya, for example). People in the US are lucky, and yet, all everyone does is complain and bitch all the time. I think most Americans lack perspective and are ungrateful for what they have.
- icedistilled 6y agoLet me rephrase your comment. It says the exact same thing you do: >"You have it better than poor people in third world countries, stop complaining about worker abuses you below the poverty line minimum wage people, you should be grateful. Yes since 1970 you're wealth has stagnated or decreased and the top earners have massively increased their share of the pie, but you should be grateful.!!"
- Darmody 6y agoI don't think he's saying that they should stop complaining. He's saying they don't realize what they have, they are not thankful for anything and they keep dramatizing over everything.
- elindbe2 6y agoIMO people are overreacting, both people who like and dislike California. Musk is an American citizen and as such can live wherever he likes within US borders. California will be fine without Musk. They've still got nice weather which will attract people willing to pay their high taxes and if they have some tax base loss it's not the end of the world. Maybe they'll have to cut some fat out of their budget but there is plenty of fat.
- joejohnson 6y agoNot the first time he’s moved to find more permissive labor laws. He left South Africa after his family’s emerald mine became less profitable when apartheid ended.
- Chris2048 6y agoThat story is disputed. Musk himself denies it, and it seems to come from his father, Errol, with whom he has a strained relationship. AFAIK no-one has properly established it it's true or false. https://moguldom.com/278102/fact-check-did-elon-musk-inherit-apartheid-money-from-his-south-african-father/ https://moguldom.com/278102/fact-check-did-elon-musk-inherit...
- toomuchcabbage2 6y agoWho in their right mind wants to be surrounded by blacks?
- chess_buster 6y agoOnce Volkswagen gets its Modulare Elektroauto Baukasten rolling at full production speed it's game over for Tesla anyhow.
- rootsudo 6y agoIsn't Volkswagen already game over? Past decade they've shown a decrease in overall sales in USA.
- trackone 6y agoAccording to wikipedia, 2010 American sales were 256k, 2019 sales were 363k. The high was in 2012 with 438k. There was a dip down to 322k in 2016 (for obvious reasons I would think) and has been going up since. This doesn't seem like game over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_of_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_of_America Just looking at the VW sales, not Audi
- butterfi 6y agoperhaps, but I'll never buy a Volkswagon just on principal. Fool me twice...
- ffggvv 6y agowhy would i buy a car from a company founded by nazis?
- Yetanfou 6y agoKonrad Zuse was one of the pioneers of computing. He was a German who worked under the Nazis. IBM did a lot of profitable business with the Nazis. You used a device based in part on work done by and for Nazis to post that message, if you posted it from the USA you'll have posted it "from stolen land" according to the more "progressive" elements in society. The clothes you're wearing are probably partly or wholly made through something close to slave labour. That iPhone of yours is made in an authoritarian state, it contains parts which have been made with raw materials from mines in dictatorial countries where children are put to work at a young age. Why would you wear those clothes, use that iPhone, use that computer, live on the "stolen land"?
- doyouevensunbro 6y agoMusk made it clear what he thought about worker’s rights when he forced the Tesla plant open during the pandemic: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52627744 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52627744 The modern day robber barons will never care about the working class. It is up to us to look out for ourselves.
- P_I_Staker 6y agoI'll never understand why people look up to him. I have friends that are totally extreme communists, who hate everything capitalist and they idolize him. He's still a billionaire and a shitty person, just because he has interests in helping the planet (with his great business ventures) doesn't make him a swell fellow. He's still trash, like most billionaires.
- Reedx 6y agoI'll never understand why people embrace crab mentality. He's playing a positive sum game - his ventures are growing the pie and moving us toward a better future (e.g., sustainable energy). Focus on the rent seekers, not the pie growers.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoDeep down a lot of people know they're not a crab that will be leaving the bucket so they'd prefer nobody left the bucket so that they don't have to be reminded it's possible.
- P_I_Staker 6y agoOf course, most of us are. This isn't crab mentality though, I just dislike the man's politics and personality. I have no problem with him being a good person, making billions, and creating cool cars/rockets; it's the workers rights stuff I'm upset about.
- P_I_Staker 6y agoDoing a few things that better society while growing your wealth and influence doesn't make you a good person. I don't like most billionaires because they invariably have huge egos and think they're gods great gift to capitalism. When you're using your power to promote business practices that hurt people who aren't receiving lavish compensation, it isn't a benign thing. I was just musing about how strange it is that people love him despite his sketchy business practices. The OP was about him forcing a plant open and having a bad record on workers rights. That's what I objected to, not all the money he's making. I do understand my comment didn't really explain that, so I understand the downvotes. I guess I thought it was clear from the context, why I had a problem with him.
- pmoriarty 6y agoWhat percentage of Tesla employees will prefer living in Texas over California?
- getpost 6y agoYeah, Musk might be able get away with this, since I expect many key employees will be attracted by much lower housing costs out of state. Texas has high real estate taxes, but not high enough to offset savings on house prices.
- cromwellian 6y agoYou just can’t move a whole company, lots of people have roots, family, kids have friends, school, etc I doubt more than 10% of people would just relocate on a dime. Studies show overall Americans are not willing to move where jobs are once they’ve settled. Much is made of a tiny percentage of people leaving. The vast majority won’t and will be forced to see another job if he were to close the CA offices which will be massively disruptive. I’m betting he won’t, that the CA offices won’t move, and the people who are writing the code that lands his rockets will remain. It’s too much of a risk to replace those people and break up teams.
- stale2002 6y agoTexas has a lot of people living there, with lots of different skill sets. I am sure that there are many people, already living in Texas, who would want to work for Tesla.
- foofoo4u 6y agoTo add to this, there are two active automotive manufacturing plants that exist in Texas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Motor_vehicle_assembly_plants_in_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Motor_vehicle_assembl.... What this means is there is already a presence of skilled labor in this field that Tesla can pull from.
- motohagiography 6y agoIn case anyone is surprised or represents a new phenomenon, it's covered here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_flight or, for apologists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_outflow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_outflow
- frakt0x90 6y agoI'm sure it has nothing to do with Texas having no state income tax...
- boringg 6y agoIt's unfortunate that Elon is leaving California given that the state has really lifted him to the pedestal he is on - through the talent network (highly talented employees, VCs), and the progressive policies that CA built for clean technology (Solar, EVs, Energy Storage). That was paid for on the backs of the people. Funny how short his memory is. Elon is a talented man - I absolutely respect what he's done. However - let's call this what it is - he doesn't want to pay a large tax bill for the success that he has had (hence selling all property in CA). I get it - it sucks and you can also be much more anti-union in Texas. Too bad he had to go along with the narrative “I think we’ll see some reduction in the influence of Silicon Valley” -- feels like a slap in the face to the market that lifted Tesla off the ground.
- nickthemagicman 6y agoThings are very different in Silicon Valley and in California now from the 90's when Musk was on the team that started Paypal. I think he might not want to be in the NEW California and Silicon Valley. I could spend a lot of time doing research and trying to figure out why... but things have changed somehow. I think the mass exodus of people from California kind of supports his decision. I think California has a negative growth rate last time I checked.
- boringg 6y agoThings change - I don't disagree. Things can't always been boom times. California has had a pretty strong push since the 80s frankly with the telecom bust in early 2000s. I would say the cost of living has escalated significantly, the companies that can afford to thrive in the bay area are not hardware startups as VC money has a difficult time support most of their higher capital costs, longer growth cycles and lower multiples on return. The pressure to succeed and level of talent is incredibly competitive. Therefore a lot of the software companies have taken over which is a different demo of people. Don't believe the narrative on mass exodus - thats a signal that is being amplified in the press. Exodus? Yes, will it come back when we are not in pandemic? I would wager yes. Is it time for some people to move out of state especially those who don't or never liked it? Yes, take the pressure off our public systems.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y agoI was on the edge of the same decision. This move by the new district attorney in LA is so far beyond the pale that if it's not rescinded soon, I am gone too: "NEW: L.A. County DA George Gascon has issued a directive to prosecutors that the following misdemeanors will be declined for prosecution, with exemptions. -Trespassing -Disturbing the peace -Driving without license -Prostitution -Resisting arrest" This is an abbreviated tweet, and each of these has some explanation and color, for example, resisting arrest will still be prosecuted if the suspect physically assaults the officer. But they can break loose from restraint and flee and not be prosecuted for resisting. Prostitution was more specifically 'loitering to commit prostitution'. My issue is the message this sends to those committing criminal behavior. They'd be attracted to municipalities that they know will not prosecute them. In many cases, it's likely that this petty crime is largely in support of drug addiction or influenced by mental illness. It would be more effective (and lauded by me) if this approach was paired with an effective treatment system. None is put forth(?), and we'll just see more and more mayhem, as we have seen already in San Francisco.
- elindbe2 6y agoSo do people not need to renew their driver's license then? Or is there a fine? What if you don't pay the fine?
- bagacrap 6y agoI'm more worried about those who have lost their license, e.g. due to multiple DWIs.
- elindbe2 6y agoSure, but even for the average law abiding Californian it would be nice having one less government requirement to worry about. The part of me that likes freedom over safety likes this idea because it gives the government less ability to enforce its own bullshit.
- jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
- shortandsweet 6y agoSo when someone leaves an area of low tax/education to high tax/education, seeking economic gain, it's called brain drain. What is it called in this case when it's reversed?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tekkk 6y agoTax dodging? Tax drain? I don't see what's all this fuss about, it's just simple tax "planning" as exercised by the wealthy. I guess the extra billions will make him happier, but it's weird we get attached to such things as money when you have already amassed it so much it doesn't really make a difference.
- boringg 6y agoThe more I think about it - He's moving to Texas so that he can pay less taxes, pay less for employees, and put that money to work with Space X and his other investments. I think he's more interested in rockets than cars these days. I bet he's frustrated that he believes he is a better capital deployer than the state of CA - which is probably true if measured by returns on capital - however that isn't what government is for. Government is, ostensibly, to support the well being of entire populations over generations. To answer some other questions why people like Elon but not other billionaires. He thinks about things more engineer like, doesn't accept things on face value, has a libertarian bent, doesn't seem to value traditional things that the wealthy are attributed to (read: expansive homes [anymore], yachts, fancy collectibles) and is an unbelievable producer. It seems any capital he does accumulate he deploys directly into his next venture - which creates jobs, products and tax benefits for states.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- messick 6y agoThank Christ. And don't come back.
- dang 6y agoPlease don't do regional flamewar on HN. We're trying for something else here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines so much that I think we have to ban this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- S_A_P 6y agoPretty interesting to see this move makes people so salty. There does seem to be a trend of people fleeing California, I dont know enough about the situation out there to comment on whether or not its valid. I suspect something must be going on for several high profile folks moving out. And before you bash Texas, its not perfect. But its pretty diverse, and it seems that folks with opposing viewpoints can still coexist here. I like that...
- chadlavi 6y agoIt's a tax dodge.
- ourcat 6y agoYou probably get far more for your money though. (Property/land-wise) I also remember reading stories years ago about CA/SV businesses that had offices up in Colorado as a back-up for when 'The Big One' hits.
- JKCalhoun 6y agoYes, ironically property taxes are much higher in Texas than California. And toll roads, etc... In short, the money has to come from somewhere — if not from income tax then it will be from somewhere else.
- jdhn 6y ago>ironically property taxes are much higher in Texas than California. The rate may be higher, but the total paid will probably be less.
- hnburnsy 6y agoState/Median property tax rate/Median property tax CA/0.74%/$2839 TX/1.8%/$2275 Source: http://www.tax-rates.org/california/property-tax http://www.tax-rates.org/california/property-tax
- cromwellian 6y agoIn the interview, the main reason he gave is the commute: He's spending all his time recently getting Gigatexas and Boca Chica up and running. He's not gonna live in California if for the next year or so he's gonna be spending a majority of his time at installations in Texas. I mean, Musk is opening up a Gigafactory in Germany near Berlin, a place that culturally and regulatory, out-California's California in terms of politics. People really really want to turn this into an anti-California story and sell conservative politics. I'm sure Musk will enjoy lower taxes, but if you listen to the same interview, he rakes MBAs and bean counters over the coals. I don't think Musk cares about profits or money as much are libertarians fetishize, he cares about what he can accomplish. He's more concerned with his goals and how much stands in his way, not whether or not he can get a tax cut. If anything, environmental and labor regulations that slow down his rate of building are more important to him. How can people listen to the audio of this WSJ interview, where he claims corporate boards, and power points, and financial meetings, are all bullshit and a waste of time. This is a guy who doesn't want to take investor Q&A during earnings calls. He routine tells people not to buy Tesla stock! He tells people people to sell Tesla stock if they don't like his answers to Q&A. He literally gives two fucks about the kind of stuff hyper-libertarians on Seeking Alpha care about. He's also tired of the games, the constant bullshitting and trying to short the stock. He doesn't care about the money as much as he cares about making cool shit and getting yo' ass to Mars.
- SlipperySlope 6y agoAustin is unbearably hot from June to September. OK if you are an indoors person. Bluebonnet season from March to April is my favorite. SXSW. Musk will love Austin and Austin will love him.
- st1x7 6y agoI guess he just doesn't want to pay state income tax. Tim Ferriss moved from California to Texas before Uber went public. Joe Rogan moved from California to Texas before he started working with Spotify. Any other relatively well known people that have done the same?
- fbnlsr 6y agoDefinitely thought of Joe Rogan the second I saw the headline.
- LanceH 6y agoDidn't Howard Hughes move around for tax reasons?
- jessaustin 6y agoLimbaugh made a big deal out of leaving New York for Florida. That probably happened over a decade ago, and it was similarly semi-controversial.
- pyrrhotech 6y agoMoving out of CA was the best decision I ever made. Now I can drive on the roads without traffic, pay 0 state income tax and live my life peacefully without being surrounded by bums and social justice warriors. Downvote away SJWs!
- giarc 6y ago>pay 0 state income tax Do you see this as a good thing? How does your state fund itself?
- bagacrap 6y agoprobably sales and property taxes FWIW, broadly speaking, I'd rather see wealth taxes and estate taxes than income taxes. Income taxes disincentivize work, whereas wealth taxes penalize idleness.
- leveredequity 6y agoHow does income tax disincentivize work? You still generate positive income with a tax.
- jessaustin 6y agoWe get less of things that are taxed. That's why there are punitive taxes on liquor, cigarettes, etc.
- pyrrhotech 6y agoFlorida funds itself mostly through tourism taxes, however we also spend much less than CA overall. Just like different people spend different amounts of money, different states do too and need to tax less because of it. CA mostly spends money by paying cops, bart workers, toll booth collectors, etc 100-400k per year whereas Florida pays its government employees market wages.
- giarc 6y ago
- chuckSu 6y agoThe dude moved house, big whoop.
- cromwellian 6y agoElon acknowledges market externalities in that interview to justify government intrusion in the free market to price in the cost of carbon and pollution. But he doesn’t seem to realize there are other externalities to price in: worker health, education, etc One of the reasons CA developed as a hot bed of activity was the college system here which provided a ready supply of educated skilled workforce. That’s been supplemented in recent years with people moving here but the genesis started with the great colleges. Once you admit there are negative externalities that the government has to force companies to “price in” to meet human goals (eg slowing climate change) you can’t just turn around and be a hyper libertarian on every other issue. Musk is smart enough to extend his reasoning from the environment to other factors. Indeed environmental regulations are slowing down Gigaberlin, if he were to whine about government required environmental impact reports, he’d be a hypocrite for example.
- iamcreasy 6y agoThis is a good argument. I wish the interviewer brought it up.
- fossuser 6y agoI wish public rhetoric was less combative/twitter-like and more collaborative. Elon has built incredible companies doing incredible things. He's also made some stupid comments re: covid. SV political hostility towards technology companies and employees is frustrating. I wish the government was more aligned with helping these companies grow and things weren't treated as if they were so zero-sum (when they're not). I also wish the taxes weren't so extreme (including state capital gains tax). I wish there was more housing supply so cost of living wasn't so high and the focus was on increasing supply rather than band-aids that provide short-term relief, but make things worse long-term (rent control, price controlled units). The "Fuck Elon Musk" tweet from a politician is dumb and makes this kind of thing worse, why can't people in government behave better than this? If we could coordinate better we could do so much more. It's just frustrating to me.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- logicslave 6y ago"Elon has built incredible companies doing incredible things. He's also made some stupid comments re: covid." I hope you see theres an issue with statements like this. Its hard for someone to be so competent in terms of founding multiple billion+ companies, and then be completely wrong on covid.
- Izikiel43 6y agoBeing a genius in something doesn't make you a genius on everything. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/health/james-watson-honors-stripped-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/health/james-watson-honors-st...
- logicslave 6y agoI hate to tell you, but if you conceive of multiple billion dollar companies, you have an exceptional grasp on reality. CNN is the thought police.
- 6y ago
- cheese_van 6y agoI too moved to a less onerous tax state so I can't fault Mr. Musk. I so enjoy living in a country where that is possible, and that, if you have the means, you can follow the jobs from state to state, or if you will, follow the capital. Capital moves where it feels comfortable and so do people. It's not much of a story really, except for Mr. Musk's celebrity.
- gautamcgoel 6y agoI'm curious, from which state to which state did you move? How much did you save?
- cheese_van 6y agoI moved to PA from MD. At the close my career, I chose to move to PA as they do not tax income from retirement accounts like IRA, 401k etc, nor pension accounts. It's quite a bundle. Retired, now in PA I pay no state tax. Honestly my tax arguments with MD were furious and frustrating. It's difficult, once you start paying MD, to escape their claims on you. Even while working out of country for multiple years running, MD will claim you owe them taxes, unless you have changed domicile in the manner they demand.
- _throwawayyyyyy 6y agogood riddance
- dongobongo 6y agoMr. Musk is a closet Trump supporter.
- Animats 6y agoIt's all about the tax evasion: "If he remained in California, he’d be facing income taxes on the profits when he exercises (stock options). In Texas, there is no income tax."
- djcooley 6y agoI am from Texas and currently live in Austin, but I also had the opportunity to live in many places in the world (Bay Area, China, Singapore, and Norway) spread out over a decade. As much as I have admired and enjoyed many of those places, I always knew I would come back to Austin. The quality of life you get here, all things considered, simply cannot be beat. After I graduated from school in the Bay Area (circa 2005), I recommended to many friends in high-tech to move to Austin. Most said no, for many reasons. Fast forward to today, and many of those individuals have made the move or are thinking to do so at this point. It is for the same reasons: cost of living, raising a family, space to build, etc. I welcome their arrival and hope they take the time to learn about the city and what makes it special.
- egsmi 6y agoI really do love visiting Austin but... Ouch. https://www.kvue.com/article/weather/austin-tied-for-the-third-longest-triple-digit-stretch-on-record/269-ab4a5f73-41ff-4825-9dee-d724a29ca569 https://www.kvue.com/article/weather/austin-tied-for-the-thi... "As of Thursday, Austin has officially had its 19th day of triple-digit temperatures. This means we have tied the third-longest stretch of 100-plus degree days recorded at Camp Mabry. Not to mention, every single day this month has been above average. Our average temperature at this time of the year should be 97 degrees."
- djcooley 6y agoYup, it can get hot in the summer. On the flip side, winters are great! The best time of year is Mar/Apr and Oct/Nov. Absolutely gorgeous. There's a reason why SXSW and ACL are scheduled at those times...
- wnevets 6y agoElon Musk also thinks covid is a hoax. I'm really sick of seeing musk spam everywhere.
- inglor_cz 6y agoGiven that the Starship / SuperHeavy project is entering the most exciting phase (flights! explosions! first reaching of the orbit! first return in one piece!) and that most, if not all of those exciting things are happening in Boca Chica, TX, I suspect it is not just about taxes. After all, I am a humble HN user from half the world away and I still spend time on live streams from Boca Chica. If I were Musk, I would move there.
- tpae 6y agoHe will probably still travel to CA for work reasons (he used to travel 3 days a week to SJ from LA every week)
- apta 6y agoAnd here we see how taxes drive away people.
- legohead 6y agoStrange comments for HN. Elon moving has little to do with California vs Texas. This is totally expected from Elon, who likes to oversee new operations personally and whip everyone into shape. His "dislike" of California has little to do with it, but he's definitely going to milk it for all it's worth. I thought at least HNers would see through this easily.
- tenpies 6y ago> This is totally expected from Elon, who likes to oversee new operations personally and whip everyone into shape. So why is he not moving from Shanghai to Austin? And from Austin to Berlin? I think people should really look into where Elon actually spends his time. Tesla is his clearly on the back burner as far as his personal attention is concerned. He checks in, but he's very successfully sold the "I sleep under my desk" narrative, while only dropping by every few weeks. It was like when Fremont ignored the lockdown orders and said "I'll be there, if anyone is arrested let it be me" and he was actually in a completely other state when they re-opened. His primary concern based on physical presence is Space-X at this time.
- nickik 6y ago'Clearly' here meaning 'in my opinion'. Or do you have any real data on that?
- texasbigdata 6y agoNot that we can verify, but his interview states he is and further intends to spend material time in admin. He represented having been heavily involved in GigaBerlin up to this point.
- dntrkv 6y agoAgreed. Elon just likes to stir the pot. He knows saying these things will get him headlines.
- justaguyonline 6y agoI wonder if the wealthy leaving California to avoid state income taxes now that the federal government penalizes states collecting it will finally be the impetus it needs to reform it's terrible property tax system. And make make no mistake, if there's a large outflow of the moderately well off and up out of Califonia in recent years, it's probably because our last Congress capped the state tax deductions they could take.[1] Effectively making Bluer states pay for the most recent nationwide tax break. Kind of a moonshot, but it's nice to imagine states leaving income taxes to the federal government because of this and just switching to land value taxes. Some kind of fairer sales tax like a VATS are another alternative, but I hear too much about the trouble people have with them (added bureaucracy, carousel fraud) to actually like the idea. [1] https://taxfoundation.org/tax-basics/salt-deduction/ https://taxfoundation.org/tax-basics/salt-deduction/
- Ericson2314 6y agoI don't care where Elon goes, I care where the money goes. We need more capital countrols or more state and local currencies. Pick your poison, libertarians.
- wolverine876 6y agoPeople love San Francisco - the culture, the energy, the people, the beauty, the opportunity, the freedom, the openness - that's why the cost of living is so high there. The more who leave, the more affordable it is for entrepreneurs and other dreamers who want to do something wonderful. I want to live someplace filled with those people; I want to meet them at the cafe and in my workplace. Cities have been the great engines of modern culture and economies for awhile now. Nothing has changed. Coronavirus is a brief interruption. Remove work doesn't change it - Covid didn't teach SV about remote work (many SV companies tried large-scale remote work several years ago, then brought many back to the office). There's a reason businesses try to create great office environments - dynamic, exciting, fun, social - it's highly creative and productive. Now you think people will be just as creative and productive sitting by themselves at their desk at home? Taxes are a major part of that - taxes are how we invest in our communities. To treat them only as an expense is ignorant, sometimes willfully so. California and the Bay Area have been taxing and investing for generations, and look what it turned out. The infrastructure of the Bay Area, U CA Berkley, and Stanford (which at least receives research money and massive tax benefits in tax breaks, I assume) are just three examples. The Golden Gate Bridge is another. Next time you are in a city, look around at all the things that the people got together, democratically, and built, funded, and operate. I believe in democracy, a fundamentally American belief. In the end, it's a reactionary political statement. The reactionaries have been targeting cities for many years because they are powerbases for Democrats, progressives, are populated by many non-white people, and they are cultural threats (merely by the fact of their existence and success: their diversity and integration, their cultural leadership, and in business and economics: what great, innovative industry comes from reactionary parts of the country?). You'll note who made the big statements about leaving - Thiel and Musk, possibly the leading reactionaries in SV. Reactionary politics is fundamentally corrupt - a lie about the world, in every aspect, to protect and accumulate their own power and assets. They're right - they don't fit well in SV. Reactionary is anti-progress, anti-optimism, it's anti-. SV is doing well if the reactionaries don't stay and stagnate, but leave and create more space and opportunity for the newcomers, the next generation. I believe in those newcomers much more than in Thiel and Musk.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- cannam 6y agoAn ignorant question for American readers. This article quotes a tweet from somebody who presumably has something to do with promoting Texas. He writes: > Texas is the best state for business. Texas has no state income tax, while California’s is the highest in the country. It just got better because Texas made an income tax unconstitutional. Can you explain what he means by that last sentence? I'm not asking for a political exegesis, unless there's no way to explain it without. I'm just curious for a technical explanation of what he's referring to. I suppose part of what I don't understand (as a non-American who knows little) is how a state can rule anything unconstitutional in the first place - isn't the constitution a federal affair?
- BurningFrog 6y agoAll the states also have their own constitutions. This is the Texas one: https://tlc.texas.gov/docs/legref/TxConst.pdf https://tlc.texas.gov/docs/legref/TxConst.pdf
- cannam 6y agoAh, thank you! And so, what happened in Texas that "made an income tax unconstitutional"?
- hguant 6y agoThey passed an amendment to their constitution.
- politician 6y agoIt's worth noting that they didn't have a state income tax before either. People who live in Texas pay Federal Income Tax, but not State Income Tax. Texans pay hefty property taxes.
- jaguar1878 6y agoIf you want a bit of reading: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2019/11/06/early-texas-voters-leaning-toward-supporting-ban-on-state-income-tax/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2019/11/06/early-te...
- gv123 6y agoI have very different perspective, Tesla is predominantly an EV manufacturer, which seems to be what Progressive states like California love and Red states hate. I think from last few months, his statements were always made in a way to please right wing crowd, for instance downplaying Covid and getting into fight with California over lockdown, he wants to appeal to right wing and increase the user base, am I very crazy to think like this?
- burnthrow 6y agoYes
- blondie9x 6y agoWhen the tax bill comes to pay, the billionaire moves away.
- dmode 6y agoI don't why this is news. Wealthy people move to low tax places all the time.
- cwkoss 6y agoTexla motors
- didibus 6y agoThis is interesting, considering California is the biggest market for electric car in the US. Half of all electric cars sold in the US were sold in California.
- newacct583 6y agoWhat's weird with all the vaguely partisan/culture-war outrage going on here about California is that from the perspective of partisan divide a transfer of tech industry employment from CA to TX (which is absolutely happening, and has been for some time) is objectively a good thing for the "left". TX is likely to follow VA and CO into blue state status sometime in the next decade because of it.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mbgerring 6y agoElon doing things like this makes his brand more appealing to conservatives, and thus makes Tesla’s products more appealing to conservatives. This is important, because for electric trucks to succeed, they have to be appealing to people who are willing to modify their truck engines to burn more gas, for no reason other than to “own the libs.” By culturally ingratiating himself with conservatives, he’s helping create a bigger market for electric cars than would otherwise exist. I find it obnoxious, but it’s not worth caring about in the context of the dire need to electrify America’s vehicle fleet in a hurry.
- jti107 6y agowhy is this news? billionaires have been leaving high tax states to low/no tax states for decades. hedge fund managers from nyc would set up shop in florida.
- shevek_ 6y agoSerious question how much does this guy spend on PR
- conroy 6y agoThis move is about lowering his tax bill and nothing more. "With a net worth of $134.7B, Musk recently surpassed Bill Gates as the second-richest person in the world, and he's on track to earn more than $50 billion in stock options. If he remained in California, he’d be facing income taxes on the profits when he exercises them. In Texas, there is no income tax."
- tabtab 6y agoNot a problem, there's NO shortage of billionaires in CA: https://www.forbes.com/sites/cartercoudriet/2020/04/09/the-states-with-the-most-billionaires-2020/?sh=12999113392a https://www.forbes.com/sites/cartercoudriet/2020/04/09/the-s...
- mcguire 6y agoI note that Texas doesn't have a state income tax.
- greendude29 6y agoWhy is this news? Who cares if Musk leaves. Business people hate paying taxes, and they will always where go taxes are lower. They've done this for the last century, and will continue playing the victim despite getting massive bailouts. Things like this shouldn't new news and/or posted here. It has no relevance.
- foobarbazetc 6y agoPsst... the only reason you get this type of “news” into the news before the end of the year is so your tax residency is less disputable. The CA FTB hunts people down for this kind of thing all the time.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- etc-hosts 6y agoHe's just moving out of California as part of a tax avoidance strategy. The end.
- bvandrunen 6y agoWould Texas have shut down Tesla factories due to COVID as CA did? All while Detroit keeps cranking out cars?
- etc-hosts 6y agoIt is my understanding that Michigan completely stopped production during the current crisis. Looks like they're producing again. So is Tesla. You have to weigh a population's death risk vs increasing the net worth of Elon Musk. I am certainly not a person who believes that because people depend on economic activity, that we should make a cold hard decision and keep production levels up to normal during the crisis. COVID-19 infection and death rates are up all over the US, so I don't have a good answer for you. I would be pretty angry if my SO or family worked in a Tesla factory and were forced to work somewhere they are in high danger of being infected, but I guess that's Capitalism.
- markdog12 6y agohttps://twitter.com/LorenaSGonzalez/status/1259287879177531392 https://twitter.com/LorenaSGonzalez/status/12592878791775313...
- nondeveloper 6y agoFor maybe 99% of Californians the decision to move or stay is tied to two factors: increasing cost of living and decreasing quality of life. I lived in the Bay Area from 2010 to 2020 and both factors worsened considerably in that time. While Musk’s move may be an indicator of a kind it reflects on largely different factors than those weighed by most people. Most people don’t strain against state bureaucracies to develop innovative products and services. Regulatory burden does reach Main Street, though. Ask anyone who’s ever run a restaurant in San Francisco or needed to get a state-issued license for, e.g., working in a nail salon if they think the government made it easier or harder for them to do business. Does this make the regulations wrong? No. Could they be easier to follow? Definitely.
- realdlee 6y agoThis is SF small business regulation in a nutshell: a business person who wanted to start an ice cream shop in the Mission neighborhood has spent $100k+ and 16 months dealing with regulatory headaches. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Bid-to-open-S-F-ice-cream-shop-turns-into-a-15614815.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Bi... Analogous examples can be found for remodeling/construction, etc.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- nwsm 6y agoWhere did you move, and how are you finding it in comparison?
- nondeveloper 6y agoWe moved to Salt Lake City, Utah. Quality of life is high and cost of living is low. We had a huge variety of housing choices at many price points. Groceries, gas, and utilities are much cheaper. People are friendly. The culture is different. More people here are religious [0]. Alcohol is strictly controlled [1] and the driving BAC limit is .05, lower than the typical .08. Cannabis is not legal. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, aka the Mormon Church, and its adherents are a big part of the culture here, especially their orientation towards family and service. We’ve liked it. [0] https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/state/utah/ https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/state/uta... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Utah https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Utah
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- thallavajhula 6y agoWhy is this a big deal? He's moving closer to his main focus.
- keyle 6y agoNo income tax vs high income tax... and he already has stakes there. I mean he's more business guy than philanthropist.
- ReallyCoolGuy1 6y agoYEAH BUDDY!
- bigmattystyles 6y agoCool - benefit from all CA / Silicon Valley has to offer to establish yourself beyond anyone's wildest dreams then leave. Are there problems with CA? Of course! They're obvious and don't have any easy solutions. But he's actually in a position, if nothing else than his tax contribution, to make a difference. With regards to regulation, yea, when you have to comply with regulations that seem onerous, I get it, but it's not like his companies are without influence. He could advocate for smaller companies if it was actually important to him. But I guess he got his, so... bye business Kanye..
- Helloworldboy 6y agoWhat does CA/Silicon Valley have to offer? There are talented engineers all over the country
- josefrichter 6y agoPurely tax driven move. You’d do the same in his place.
- muyuu 6y agoLots of denial in this thread. CA is the most negative State in net domestic migration and TX is second to FL only at the other end of the scale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... CA is just terrible value for most people currently. I'm not American and neither is Musk, it's not like he's going to make such decision for ideological allegiances. He just gets better value for his money elsewhere. Currently CA seems pretty broken between rural, poor and underinvested areas; and super-expensive, badly mismanaged urban areas. I don't think he's going to move to the desert, he'll probably move to urban TX and it's rather liberal there.
- pbadg3r 6y agoThank you for the wiki link! What's crazy is the migrants per capita numbers. Idaho is 3x Texas!
- dragonwriter 6y ago> CA is the most negative State in net domestic migration Sure, but mostly that's actually good for the state economically since while there is net domestic outmigration, its more than made up for by international immigration, and the gross domestic outmigration is lower on the economic scale than the gross domestic inmigration.
- muyuu 6y agonot currently, no international migration is shown in that like as well, in the bottom table in any case it doesn't bode well for them economically as these immigrants are usually net welfare recipients
- desert_boi 6y agoLet them eat Texan cake.
- dntrkv 6y agoThat's in absolute numbers. Per capita, it's number 8, which is still high, but still beat out by NY, NJ, and IL.
- emcq 6y agoElon's was quoted saying "you have a forest of redwoods and the little trees cant grow." While pointing his finger at California, I can't help but think this really reflects back on him. Elon Musk's success and several others began as the result of PayPal. To my knowledge none of Elon's companies since have produced a group like the PayPal mafia. The PayPal folks are smart people, but the bay area is full to the gills of smart visionaries lacking capital to take on ambitious visions. Many have worked at Elon's companies. To really see little trees grow people like Elon would need to change their equity structures to let the next group of innovators thrive.
- buggythebug 6y agoHe just wants a cowboy hat like his brother
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- yayr 6y agoTexas made income tax unconstitutional. Thats a pretty strong incentive to move if you expect a 50 billion stock options payout
- ausjke 6y agothis is nothing new and has been going on for decades, Texas vs CA is capitalism vs socialism, check who is winning these years. Don't forget CA has the best climate and seashores, otherwise people will flee like hell. sadly for those liberals who moved to Texas they can wait for one second to make Texas more like CA, the socialism ideology is a life long brain damage with no cure. Please don't california my texas!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- inamberclad 6y agoI moved from the Bay Area to Houston 6 months back for work. In virtually every environmental way, this is a downgrade. Worse weather (except for fire season), more pollution, less zoning, etc. However, housing is cheap because over here they just BUILD.
- TheGrassyKnoll 6y agoWhen I was in elementary school, CA had 20 million people. Now we've got 40 million people. I wouldn't mind it if 20 million people left.
- unnouinceput 6y agoQuote: "With a net worth of $134.7B, Musk recently surpassed Bill Gates as the second-richest person in the world, and he's on track to earn more than $50 billion in stock options. If he remained in California, he’d be facing income taxes on the profits when he exercises them. In Texas, there is no income tax. " Rest is blah blah, this right there is the real reason for such a move. Can't blame the man either, I'll do the same in his shoes.
- la6471 6y agoExcept that the man himself made some comments to let others know he is not happy with California not bending over backwards to his whim.
- samfisher83 6y agoHe benefits from government policies like the one for EV credit, and the one where companies have to buy carbon credits. Then when its time to contribute back its time to move.
- noemit 6y agoThere's federal income tax everywhere. He's saving quite a bit in state tax, not avoiding all income tax.
- thesausageking 6y agoI wouldn't. Being worth $120B Vs $150B isn't a material difference. At that level, I would say "California was good to me, I leveraged the ecosystem there and the state's generous tax subsidies for my product. I'm ok paying them what I owe."
- nojvek 6y agoBoca chica is in Texas. It’s favorable to SpaceX. It’s favorable for his taxes. It makes total sense and is legal. Good on him. Would bring more tech workers to Texas. Good for Texas.
- drawkbox 6y agoReminder that the only state in the US that does not recognize non-competes is California [1]. If you are starting a business California is still a place competition exists. Non-competes are the most anti-business, anti-worker, anti-innovation and anti-American thing you can think of. Non-competes are like fixed authoritarian markets that appear open but are actually nearly mafia state controlled by the existing players. Sure once you get big you might want to lock down the gains, but while growing and disrupting the lack of non-compete recognition is a huge things for both workers and businesses. The ban on non-competes should be nationwide and California has always had that pro-worker, pro-business, pro-market policy in place [1]. When the AG of a state is calling for that to be nationwide, you know you are in a place that values value creation without limitation or blocking competition. [1] https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-becerra-calls-nationwide-ban-non-compete-agreements-reminds https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bece...
- dang 6y agoThere are multiple pages of comments, accessible via the 'More' link at the bottom of the page, or click here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25359144&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25359144&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25359144&p=3 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25359144&p=3 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25359144&p=4 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25359144&p=4 (This message will eventually self-destruct.)
- frabbit 6y agoAnyone interested in crowdfunding to send him to Mars?
- jonas_kgomo 6y agoThe thing about the exodus is that it is a harbinger of an online community that resembles SF. The pandemic and the fires accelerated the idea of moving out, ofcourse many people in the past including Elon Musk, Palmer Lucky, etc wanted to be out. In this scenario , exit is becoming more than voice. Most of the things that make SF great are being uploaded to the cloud through various programs like Reforge, SUS, Pioneer, OnDeck. It is becoming more interesting to build in the cloud.
- russellbeattie 6y agoAccording to Wikipedia, "Musk was severely bullied throughout his childhood and was once hospitalized after a group of boys threw him down a flight of stairs." To quote a Fish Called Wanda: "Good."
- pcvarmint 6y agoElon Musk moving to Texas is similar to Joe Rogan moving to Texas. People respond to incentives. This is axiomatic. Those who would enforce socialistic policies, ignore this basic fact.