54 ms·

I Miss Working from the Office

• pelasaco 6y ago
  > I fundamentally do not think remote teams can ever be as > productive as in-person teams Remote teams are much more productive[1] as "in-person teams". What maybe is missing for you is that remote teams are polishing their process, documentations and tools and searching people that "fit" in this working style for years while the "in-person teams" are trying to learn it just now. [1] https://www.timedoctor.com/blog/remote-teams-future-of-work/ https://www.timedoctor.com/blog/remote-teams-future-of-work/
• devnull255 6y ago
  I definitely miss having the option to work from the office. I miss the commute time ( never more than an hour and a half on the busiest of commutes ) and the transition from home to work and work to home again. I don't think I cared for doing either full time; office or working from home. So I liked being able to mix it up. The variation of it was refreshing. I liked experiencing the increased likelihood of encountering unexpected events and people. The greater randomness of experience.
• atemerev 6y ago
  He is a software engineer in the Bay Area, I presume? I think he can afford to buy a big monitor (I use a 55” LG OLED TV which I have bought at discount for less than $1400. Compared to a shitty Dell at my workspace, it’s a bliss). I, personally, hope to never return to the office. I was working mostly from home even before the pandemic, but now it’s official.
  • juusto 6y ago
    Excuse me for going off topic but what you think of possible burn-in possibilities with an OLED panel and static elements on the screen. I am also eyeing the same TV but I am worried about the issues popping up.
    • andy_ppp 6y ago
      Over time it will happen but not noticeable as you think, search on YouTube for test results.
    • atemerev 6y ago
      Well, it can happen. Mine has a slight (barely noticeable) burn-in from the time when Windows desktop was by some mistake left without turning the display off for two days in a row. Still works fine, everything is impressive. If you avoid such mistakes, I think it can work flawlessly for many years.
  • dtech 6y ago
    You're missing all of the other points from the post that are not easily solvable with a material purchase
  • necovek 6y ago
    Even if we focus on the monitor/desk combination, the fact that they might have money for those does not mean that they have room for them (he mentions how he's lucky to have a desk). I've worked from home for the last 14 years. I've only used Slack for the last 12 months and it sucks (well, how it is used sucks). While I love the benefits of working from home, I do miss the things that working from an office gives you in the social aspect.
  • nix23 6y ago
    If i have a shitty monitor at the office i buy myself one and a keyboard and a mouse. A Kitchen Chef has his own personal tools (Knifes) too. I refuse to work with stuff that makes my workday a pain (just talking about the physical stuff, software stuff is something completely different as we know)
• Lukesys 6y ago
  Ugly office not gonna lie!
• deadlyst0rm 6y ago
  Most people when they say they miss the office they mean missing dragging everyone with them to the office. You were in the office weren't you? Stay there then and have all the space you want :D I for one will never go back to the office.
  • Foivos 6y ago
    Am I the only person who wants to be in the office AND also prefers to be alone there?
    • ghaff 6y ago
      I doubt it. There are certainly people who would be perfectly happy with a private office in a Regus or WeWork co-working location so they're not stuck working on a kitchen table or their bed--especially if there are other people in a small apartment all day. (Or they just want home-work separation.) But there's also a sizable contingent who wants to go back to pre-COVID office life.
  • rbg246 6y ago
    I do agree with your sentiment I think unfortunately the people who want to work from the office require everyone else to be there too - to make it the office. I don't begrudge their attitude but hopefully there is just a split in companies between remote companies and on prem companies.
    • pracer 6y ago
      That's my impression too. People talking about the benefits of the office are actually complaining of not having everyone around (either to have social aspect or to what they call "casual collaboration" which reduces to being able to interrupt at any time.
    • ghaff 6y ago
      Yes. I strongly suspect that most people who want to go "back to the office" are not really saying that they just want their office workstation back so they don't need to work in their bedroom or kitchen table (though some are). Rather, they want to be back with their colleagues and if their colleagues mostly aren't there, they're not really going to be satisfied.
• bitcharmer 6y ago
  Wife and I been working from home for months now. What a work-life balance game changer it is! We don't want to be back at the office. Even better, none of our working-from-home friends does. Of course everyone has a different perspective but the majority of my circles enjoys the new arrangement.
  • exDM69 6y ago
    Yes. This seems to be a very divisive issue, others prefer working from home, others prefer the office. Some are downright miserable in their home offices. I'm guessing some were also miserable at their work offices but didn't have a choice. If this involuntary experiment has taught us anything, it's that people are very different in their preference. Hopefully people will be allowed a choice when the situation is over. It's worth noting that a lot of people don't miss the office as much as they miss the social interaction with their co-workers. If a part of the people will return to the office and others prefer to stay home, the social interaction won't be there as it used to and there is a risk of splitting into two camps. My company has said that WFH will be available to everyone once offices open again. I am very grateful for that. I miss my coworkers too, but mostly the lunches and after work beers and coffee breaks. What I do not miss is the daily commute and actually trying to get work done in a distracting office environment.
• cghendrix 6y ago
  Not sure I’m following his gripes with slack. Been remote for a couple years now with slack as my only tool for communications (with the exception of a handful of times I’ve used email or called my manager on the phone) and it’s been just fine for me.
  • StavrosK 6y ago
    You probably just haven't used anything better. Even email is better than Slack for work-related stuff. I greatly prefer Zulip, I've written up why here: https://www.stavros.io/posts/seven-tips-great-remote-culture/ https://www.stavros.io/posts/seven-tips-great-remote-culture...
    • iso947 6y ago
      Your view is that email is better than slack. OP has experience with email and judges slack to be better. Neither are “right” or “wrong” I find Slack is better than Skype For IM. I find zoom the best for face to face meetings and screen sharing (slack doesn’t seem to have a “share this window” option), but slack for starting a quick call and for asynchronous comms, and things like changes and alerts. Email for comms outside the company. Use whatever tool makes you work well.
      • StavrosK 6y ago
        The fact that OP has used email doesn't mean that he's done work collaboration exclusively over email. Obviously some of the people who have done both might prefer Slack, but the difference is so large that I find it unlikely.
• bamboozled 6y ago
  Thing I miss are: * Having someone clean my works space. My house gets dirtier now and I’m forever cleaning it, doing dishes. * The distinction between the beginning and end of my work day. * Having free space in my house. * Off the cuff dinner and drinks with colleagues. * No lag meetings and whiteboard sessions. * Having intervals apart from my family actually felt healthy, although we have adapted to being around each other 24/7 I guess. * When someone of greater rank than me in an inconvenient time zone wants to have a meeting with me involved, I have to attend. I’ve practically lost all my mornings from 6am - 9am, 3-4 days a week. Things I like about fully distributed: * Everyone is remote now so it’s forced us to treat everyone more equally, not just favouring those in the office. * Less interaction with middle management, this might make it harder to get bonuses etc. Disclaimer: I just lived in a city 5 minute bike ride from my office so I had a convenient setup, could go home and make lunch etc. When I had an office I had slack, I had work from home, cafes, sometimes.
  • iso947 6y ago
    I’m confused about your dishes claim. You mention you go home for lunch anyway so dishes don’t seem terrible, otherwise it’s a plate and a knife to pop in the dishwasher. When you were in an office and someone scheduled a 6am meeting what would you do? For me in the office I have a cup that I put in the dishwasher at the end of the day. At home I have a better cup that I put in the office at the end of the day. If you’re only 5 minutes from your colleagues why can’t you go for spontaneous pub etc (assuming it’s open in your locality) Or pop out for lunch?
    • vowelless 6y ago
      Not sure about the OP, but people are now scheduling meetings earlier and later in the day in my company. Previously, I would never have 8am meetings as I would only get to the office by 930. People just knew not to schedule before then. But now, the big boss starts working and slacking at 730 and often schedules stuff for 8am. And we do video calls all the time, so have to be presentable for those meeting. On the other hand, research schedules are all over the place and people invariably end up scheduling syncups at 6 or 6:30. Pre-pandemic, I would be at a local pub with coworkers at that time!
• sneak 6y ago
  As for the ambient displays, I built those out in my own lab (in my house) this year. 40-50” 4k displays are ~$250 now. I converted both of my main computers to 3x displays (using computer monitors) and put up 3 of these super cheap 4k TVs with chromecast ultras on them. I love having a few displays playing ambient information or live 24/7 video streams (eg of the Starships they’re building down in Boca Chica) in my lab. Having a dedicated (large) room in your house to work is critical, IMO. I set mine up pre-pandemic because I always work from the places I am living, unless I’m directly (and temporarily) onsite with a client.
• t00r 6y ago
  Never want back from Home office to office again (45 minutes one way)!ONE!
• feralimal 6y ago
  No offices, everyone work at home - everyone so busy... And then you look around, what is all this work achieving? What were we achieving when we worked in the office? Were we doing anything real at all?
  • politelemon 6y ago
    We were sustaining the system that sustained us, so that we could sustain it.
    • quickthrower2 6y ago
      We’re all pixers. Making pixels appear.
  • ozorOzora 6y ago
    I can relate to that, I feel like most computer stuff is a hamster wheel for smart peeps.
    • matthewh806 6y ago
      I've come to the conclusion that maybe us computer people are not truly smart. And we just like the comfort of thinking that we are. Yes, we're good at logical thinking, implementing systems, reasoning about problems etc This just makes us useful in the end or good at a certain way of thinking. "Men of science may be simple tools of others, with no more idea what they are about than a hammer has of a house" I believe this is true of software developers too - if we were truly smart we wouldn't be on the hamster wheel in a cage belonging to someone else
      • derwiki 6y ago
        In the Gervais Principle, developers are all [economic] losers https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
  • 6y ago
• as1mov 6y ago
  I recently switched jobs and the new company onboarded me remotely. It's difficult for someone who's new to get acquainted with the new job remotely. Simple things like a small question regarding the codebase turns into a video call with a colleague where you first ping them on chat and ask them if they are free and then schedule the call. Even if the whole thing takes 10 minutes, it's too much compared to just turning sideways, asking them something if I was in office. OTOH, I was much more comfortable working remotely in my previous job where I was already familiar with the code and the job on the whole.
  • Smaug123 6y ago
    My team currently does half hour coffee mornings and has an open office hour once every two weeks; often we're all just working silently through them, but everyone's on the same call throughout. Is that something you can do - just sit on a call with your assigned mentor for most of the day?
  • intricatedetail 6y ago
    It seems like a communication issue. Why would you need a video call to ask a question? Problem is that people are used to verbal communication and lack skills to convey a message in writing. When worked in remote first company it was a non issue, rarely had to go on a video call. We had social calls often, but work stuff easily worked out over text. It is also about culture - we had a codebase very well documented and if a starter had questions their task was to improve the documentation together with the dev assigned to onboarding.
    • Smaug123 6y ago
      It's not quite entirely about culture - I do think that a synchronous call with someone provides better opportunities to detect their unknown unknowns, because you get to see their thought process as they formulate the question. Obviously one can get by without it, but I think this is one of the places where the lack of serendipity actually does hit a little. Once someone has fewer unknown unknowns, though, the act of asking a question by text can often be enough of a rubber duck that they don't need to hit "send" at all.
• mrweasel 6y ago
  The biggest one for is, as mentioned in the article: casuasl collaboration. I mis being able to just walk over to a coworker. I’m just home every other week, which strikes a reasonable balance for me.
  • intricatedetail 6y ago
    I always found the fact that I can be interrupted at any time in the office very annoying. When I was in the flow and then someone comes up with a question that makes me switch context, then that affected productivity badly. Other colleagues raised this too and in the end we adopted a rule that you either ask a question on Slack or schedule an appointment. After that we found we could get much more done. Some people didn't like this though and left, but with the remaining devs we had an awesome team.
    • mrweasel 6y ago
      That's a very real problem, sometimes you just need long periods of uninterrupted time to get a task done. We solve this by having a special office, placed in a "remote" corner of the building. It's equipped with proper desks, monitors, chair and so on. You can go there if you need a few hours, or days, of dedicated time. If you're working on a specific project, we'll often move the team working on that project to a dedicate office. For your daily job, you just just stay at your normal desk in a semi-open office space, with plenty of meeting room and smaller rooms for calls or online meetings.
  • pracer 6y ago
    If you think about it, what you miss is the possibility to interrupt others at any time, which is not very considerate once you realise it. Calling it "casual collaboration" is not honest, as that's not collaboration. The other person is not collaborating, just being interrupted to help you with something. the only thing I agree is that you lost the casual talks in the coffee break or kitchen, but that is not always about being more productive.
    • mrweasel 6y ago
• beebmam 6y ago
  I don't, personally!
• ArcMex 6y ago
  Still getting used to being with the missus 24/7. Blissful at first, now getting work done can be difficult. Sometimes it's interpreted as neglect or being aloof, IDK. I miss missing her and making our time together that much more special.
  • canofbars 6y ago
    Not really relating to this. While I'm working from home I just put my headphones on and ignore everyone else at home. Are you not able to do this?
    • easton 6y ago
      People often consider it impolite, regardless of what you’re doing (I had to find more and more ways to work around it with my parents during lockdown because getting pulled out of flow when trying to do schoolwork was aggravating). explaining didn’t seem to help, they didn’t understand why I couldn’t just quickly do X.
      • tluyben2 6y ago
        > impolite While that is true if it's just some singular instance, when living with people (parents, spouses, kids, roommates) it is better to explain it once or twice and after that, just be impolite. Even for the simple reason that they are actually the impolite ones for not respecting your process.
        • Kye 6y ago
          That's great for people living/working with people who have a healthy respect for boundaries, but not everyone has that luxury. Boundary issues are rampant, especially in families.
          • balfirevic 6y ago
            Boundaries need to be enforced. That's hard to do if you shy too much from being perceived as impolite. Everyone has a different level of conflict tolerance, of course. But letting someone know that they are being rude and disrespectful should be on the table.
• villgax 6y ago
  I miss being able to leave office-work at the office at 5PM. No calls no BS after 5 is what I miss the most.
  • tingol 6y ago
    I've been working remotely for years and no one calls me after 5pm. Maybe you should change jobs because it has nothing to do with remote work.
    • xchip 6y ago
      Same here, most of the people who miss the office is because they cant organize themselves or set decent limits.
    • ghaff 6y ago
      In fact, absent maybe a "we're waiting for you in a meeting, where are you?" call, I generally don`t expect calls period and no one I work with would expect a chat message after 5 to be responded to until the next morning. (I frequently do glance at my email in the evening and may take care of something quick, but it's not an expectation.)
• Roritharr 6y ago
  I simply can't afford enough space at home for a comfortable working environment in addition to enough space for the kids. I'd have to move MUCH farther away from the city (think 1 hour of driving), to get a space where this would work, I've been looking into it for the last 3 months, but so is everyone else, meaning the price where there is broadband available is skyrocketing in my area. In general the pandemic has decimated the quality of life I used to enjoy in my downtown office, and to get that back I have to rebuild my life from scratch, 2020 and the move to WFH has been terrible in that regard for our family.
  • inglor_cz 6y ago
    The broadband problem could be soon solved by Starlink.
    • Roritharr 6y ago
      "soon" in Germany might mean 2022
      • jack_pp 6y ago
        Could consider moving to a cheaper country for a few years if you're in the EU, 200k could buy you a very big house in eastern europe
      • inglor_cz 6y ago
        Not great, not terrible. This means a year and a half. If it saves you 300 000 eur on purchase of your home, it paid for itself. I am a Czech; property prices around Prague are hopping mad, but top German cities like Munich are just beyond belief. Buying a house in an expensive region means debt slavery till the end of your days. Waiting to 2022 does not sound as bad in comparison. You can probably have a big, even though unkempt villa somewhere in Sachsen-Anhalt for the price of a garage in Munich.
        • Roritharr 6y ago
          For this reason I don't plan on buying in Germany unless I hit the proverbial lottery. But rent slavery is not much better, having my entire extended family living in this High CoL environment makes moving hard on the kids aswell... Atm I have a hard time being happy with any of the combinations of tradeoffs we could make.
• josefrichter 6y ago
  Interestingly, I don't know anybody who misses the office. We're all techies and designers and nobody complained. We do miss having a beer after work every now and then, but we don't miss the office itself at all.
  • majewsky 6y ago
    I don't miss "the office" as a singular entity, but I miss properties of the office: - air conditioning - coffee corner chats - lunch with colleagues - strong separation between work time and free time
  • globular-toast 6y ago
    Yeah that's my experience. We miss certain aspects of it like beer after work etc, but no way does that outweigh how bad the office was in other ways. The pointless commute, the constant distraction, the shared facilities etc. A win-win is rare in life; most things come with tradeoffs. This is no different.
  • Aeolun 6y ago
    I don’t miss the office when everybody is there, but going in now, when there’s only 10 people in the 200 person floor is glorious. All amenities and none of the negatives.
  • dagw 6y ago
    I miss getting out of the house and having a 'clean' space where I can focus on work without any not-work people or not-work distractions around me. I miss the separation between having a work desk with a work computer and a hobby desk with a hobby computer and being physically unable to interact with one while at the other due to them literally being several miles apart. I miss the clear demarcation between Working and Not Working that the daily commute signified.
    • dbbk 6y ago
      This is why I now work from my own coworking space, while the rest of my company work from home. It's a nice middle ground.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• canofbars 6y ago
  >I fundamentally do not think remote teams can ever be as productive as in-person teams. Trade an anecdote for an anecdote. We have found our dev team to be exactly as productive if not more since moving to work from home. A single instance of productive remote work invalidates this statement that it is literally impossible for remote work to be productive.
  • nickff 6y ago
    The OP's claim is slightly vague, but would most charitably be read as saying that if you compare all teams (as in the total of all teams around the world), they will perform better in-person than remote, and that this is unlikely to change. You seem to be interpreting the OP as having said that each and every team is always better in-person. Your read is plausible, but HN guidelines say we should interpret charitably.
    • iso947 6y ago
      OP offers no evidence though, just an anecdote How many companies have a set up where people hotdesk nowhere near their team (sometimes in different buildings) and encourage all meetings online because there is not enough meeting space? I don’t know, but I know it’s not zero.
    • marcosdumay 6y ago
      Anyway, taking conclusions over what happens to all teams, or the average, or any distribution is a pretty useless task¹. Your work environment won't influence all teams, just yours, so it shouldn't be fit to all. 1 - Unless you are talking about how to tell those teams apart and discover what environment each one fits better. That would be valuable.
• nonbirithm 6y ago
  I gave up trying to work from home and commute to the office as an essential worker, because the distractions were so frequent I was not getting much work done. I'm the only person in the office and it is night and day for my productivity.
  • pracer 6y ago
    At the end it is about finding a place without distractions. Not every home is prepared for that (and sometimes even impossible, due to kids, for example). But it is not the office per se which I claim that tend to be really disruptive in general.
• mfDjB 6y ago
  Through my career I've traveled to new countries and cities for work, each time the office helped me connect with people and make new friends, some of my best friends in fact. What does the future hold for me in this respect? It seems like a lonely place.
  • badestrand 6y ago
    Coworking offices can fill this space: Meeting new, interesting people, coffee chats and after work beers.
    • djsumdog 6y ago
      and yet in this context, you'd still miss the co-working office. They're gone too.
  • pracer 6y ago
    It can help to build a group of friends in the area and not depending on the coworkers. For that I would recommend groups for activities, gyms, workshops and local activities. It is difficult if you never did it before, but it is worth the effort. Besides, your social life will not depend on your particular job. Obviously, with quarantines in place that almost impossible, so hang in there, it will become better.
  • thendrill 6y ago
    I am sorry you had a bullshit job that just involved meets and greets. Not really helping anyone except your salary.
    • djsumdog 6y ago
      Don't be so smug. Just because you don't like social interaction doesn't mean everyone else is an introvert.
      • thisarticle 6y ago
        Parent is posting comments like these all over this post. He’s just a troll.
• globular-toast 6y ago
  I have the complete opposite experience. I miss very little from the office because my desk at home is bigger and cleaner, my monitors are better, it's quiet and private, and my productivity is through the roof. If productivity is truly down then it just sounds like some work is different and has different needs. As for having a lower quality of life because you now live in a city for no reason, you have to adapt. Things have changed. Deal with it. And never forget the grass is always greener on the other side.
• qz2 6y ago
  I don’t. If I work from home for 15 years then I gain 1 entire year back of my life from not having to commute. Also no one can tap me on the shoulder :)
• knuthsat 6y ago
  I have too much pressure from my significant other. She can't look at me doing nothing (when I'm thinking or having my 15 minute rest between productive hours). Every single time I need to clean something up. I started going to the store and cooking lunch during work hours. Then I also get complaints about not doing the dishes while I'm working. It was nice when the work and home were separated and I just did all my household chores on my non-work time. Now I'm constantly interrupted.
  • derwiki 6y ago
    I largely echo sibling posts saying you should address this with her, but if available to you I might suggest speaking with a therapist first. Potentially starting a fight with someone you’re locked at home with is risky.
  • krig 6y ago
    Not to assume anything, but you might need to discuss this with your SO rather than HN. I’m not saying that to be snarky but really, without communication you’ll end up not understanding each other. She may be dealing with stresses of her own, triggering overly controlling behaviour.
  • pracer 6y ago
    You may have a boundary and respect problem there. Working from home just uncovered it and it may be a good idea to solve it.
  • redis_mlc 6y ago
    According to the MGTOW community, women require constant validation, often subconsciously. So think of her nagging as not being able to realize and limit her need for validation from you. You can look for related titles on Youtube with Red Pill and MGTOW in the titles that will help you to frame for yourself and how to explain to your wife that dysfunctional but common element of your relationship.
  • HatchedLake721 6y ago
    Have you communicated that? “Hey, I’m busy earning money. Because I’m sitting and thinking doesn’t mean I’m slacking off, and I’m also quite surprised to hear that from my significant other. You don’t know what I’m doing right now and you’re not my manager, so stop controlling and managing my work time. You’re distracting me from my work so please leave me alone. If you can’t look at me thinking and doing my work then please look the other way or go to the other room. Thanks, bye.” I’m dramatizing, but set boundaries. There’s personal time and work time. When it’s work, it’s work.
• bartread 6y ago
  > I miss productivity! Our engineering productivity has fallen through the floor since COVID despite everyone working longer and harder; I fundamentally do not think remote teams can ever be as productive as in-person teams. So far I haven't found this to be the case. Somewhat the opposite in fact, although here I'd credit our move from scrum/scrumban to Shape Up as much as working from home. It's not perfect though. We see evidence of low-lying morale and mental health issues. Nobody's losing their minds, exactly, but plenty of people aren't really happy. Of course, there are many wider reasons why that might be the case. E.g., lockdown in particular seems to turn every day into a sort of mundane Groundhog Day, especially for people who live alone. The balance point will be different for different people but, certainly, for me, 100% WFH is not the perfect balance (but then neither is 100% office). At least I know I can adapt to 100% WFH well enough when I have to though (unlike 100% office).
  • Tomis02 6y ago
    > Nobody's losing their minds, exactly, but plenty of people aren't really happy. There seems to be a lot of newfound concern for the wellbeing of the employees. Interesting how this wasn't an issue before Covid hit, and nobody was asked "would you prefer to work from home rather than having to deal with constant distractions in the office? Would you like to not waste your life away on a useless commute? Are you happy?". Nah, it's only an issue now.
    • ghaff 6y ago
      In talking with CIOs and others, as well as just personal interactions with financial institutions and the like, there are a lot of traditional practices and processes that were just "the way things were done." And even if some in authority wondered if they should experiment with this or that change, it probably seemed like a low priority and at least a little bit risky if it didn't work out. What's happened is a bunch of change has been forced. And some of those changes have indeed proven sub-optimal. But a lot have worked out, surprisingly to many, well.
    • bartread 6y ago
      Could you reign in the cynicism a bit, please? I'm talking about my entire team, including me. These are people I know and work with on a daily basis. Part of knowing people is that you can tell when they're not quite themselves. I've also polled my team on a semi-regular basis throughout the last 8 months on their preferences going forward, which is how I know I have a range of preferences across the spectrum of WFH versus working from the office. We've always had a flexible approach in this area because of team has always been distributed, but one of the silver linings of the COVID cloud will, I hope, be a more general acceptance of increased flexibility in working conditions for jobs where that's feasible. Don't you dare put words into my mouth. Take it elsewhere.
• intricatedetail 6y ago
  Work in office was a thing because we didn't have great tools to communicate. Now that changed and I think office work is an unnecessary luxury. If people need face to face meeting, then maybe it is a sign they need to work on their communication skills? I find text communication more meaningful and productive that f2f where things easily get lost. If you need to escape family life, consider working from a cafe or rent a desk somewhere or maybe consider relationship therapy.
  • Tomis02 6y ago
    No, work in office was a thing because it's always been like that and change is difficult. It's not like remote work is a new idea, it's just that the idea of not visually seeing asses in seats was perceived as very radical.
    • intricatedetail 6y ago
      My argument is that we didn't have Zoom or Slack 50 years ago, so gathering people in one place was a necessity. Now it's not and it indeed may feel radical, but the same could be told about people who used to walk everywhere and then faced the transportation revolution.
• rcarmo 6y ago
  I think we need to keep in mind the distinction between "working remote" and "working remote during a crisis". I recently wrote about that at some length, in fact: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2020/10/29/2200 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2020/10/29/2200 I've been remote for years now and this has been an "eternal September" (or, rather, March) kind of thing where all of a sudden hundreds of people in my immediate professional circle were forced to have new work habits while the couple of dozen of us who were used to "regular" remote work watched a variety of small scale train wrecks as people realized they had to do meetings differently, be more flexible about scheduling, etc. Good points: * It's more inclusive, for sure. Everyone has to use Slack/Teams/whatever to interact, so you don't feel like everyone in the room is ignoring the remote guy inside the little box on the table. * If you have a home office, it is _way_ more comfortable than anything else you might usually have at a "regular" office. For instance, you get a door you can close instead of open space insanity. * If your kids are still in school (and not sent home because of COVID) you get to pick them up (that's my daily outdoor exercise). * You are no longer taking hours (sometimes days) travelling to the office, customers and whatnot. Bad points: * More, shorter meetings that completely destroy focus time. I've taken to block out 2h a day at least where I will simply not take calls or even reply to chats in order to get stuff done. * Longer working hours (which I also completely blame on the pandemic--it's become much worse this year). * Your life feels more "crammed in". Part of it is due to the insane work schedules, but confinement means shopping and chores (like doing the dishes, cooking or laundry) have to be done _somewhen_, often into the night time. * You may be physically around your kids, but most often so busy or exhausted that it takes extra effort to devote the required level of focus and attention you absolutely _have_ to give them in these trying times. On the whole, though, I still don't want to go back to an office. Yes, it's harder to create new relationships, to learn a new org, etc. But even when things get back to "normal" (if ever), I don't think I'd be able to deal with going to an office more than once a week, because the benefits will then far outweigh the downsides (at least for me).
• st1x7 6y ago
  I think that what isn't discussed enough is the variance in quality of your office environment and of your home office and how that quality affects your preferences about working from home. It sounds quite obvious but in these arguments people often just state what they personally like and leave it at that. Your office can be place where you still have the option to work uninterrupted but also get the benefits of face-to-face interaction, casual exposure to work ideas, better meetings, having all the equipment you need, separating work and personal life. Or it can be a hell where you hate every second and can't get anything done. Your commute can be a 15-minute walk or it can be a couple of hours of driving - vastly different experiences. Your home office can mean working on a laptop at a tiny desk in a small bedroom in shared accommodation with loud housemates; or it can be a great setup in a separate room in your own flat/house. Again, those are completely different experiences. I suspect that a lot of people talk about how much they like remote because they happened to be on the bad end of the office-quality scale and the good end of the home-quality scale. And when your work circle is made up people who also worked in the same bad office environment, it's easy to say something like "no one I know wants to go back to the office". Personally, I've had a great office with a short commute in the past, and my home office situation is quite poor right now. So I'm looking forward to working from an office in the future.
  • namelosw 6y ago
    I believe serious remote workers should optimize their home working environment. It is an investment. But the problem is most people was forced to working remotely without any preparation and motivation - people end up complaining remote working while working with laptop in the couch. I have a chair which is suits me perfectly, a big standing desk which is not wobbling at all, and 3 monitors with premium stands which are tuned just for me. It's much easier for a remote worker to setup everything that suits you, and it's much harder to adjust workplaces to make everybody happy.
  • homodeus007 6y ago
    There is and always will be variance in the quality of your work space, whether that is at an office or within your own home. When people say "I enjoy working from home", most attribute to the being able to focus in your comfortable area, lack of noise, no need to commute during rush hour, and many other widely common cons that is associated with working at an office. The consensus of wfh vs office should take place with the following question: given ideal situation for both scenario which one would you choose? Because, having a loud roommate in your house does not represent the general public and is actually what I would consider an "outlier" in this particular consensus.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• krig 6y ago
  I can’t think of anything that has disappeared this year that I miss less than the office. What I miss is being able to be in close proximity to strangers without freaking out. I wonder when and if that will ever go away. :(
• AniseAbyss 6y ago
  Considering the remorseless singular dedication to efficiency in my country that takes no prisoners I think offices are on the way out. Why would you as a company want to pay for an expensive building?
• Jugurtha 6y ago
  Yes. Some people on the internet were also advocating for a return to the office because people could not stand the loneliness anymore and need to interact socially. I had to point out that this was symptomatic of a poor social/family life [outside of work]. If someone is lonely working remotely and they miss humans, it is a sign the only humans they interacted with were colleagues. It's also a sign of what the person could try and improve. This situation exposed a lot of crutches.
  • dang 6y ago
    We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25168859 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25168859.
  • w0utert 6y ago
    I don’t understand this comment, do you suggest all forms of social contacts are created equal and people should just replace the social interactions they used to have with co-workers by visiting their family more often, organizing more poker nights with friends or taking salsa classes or whatever? That makes absolutely no sense, these interactions are completely different from those you would have with your co-workers, and it’s perfectly normal even for people with an otherwise active social life to miss those. My friends and family are almost universally incomparable to my coworkers in almost every way.
    • watwut 6y ago
      But the truth is, for many people colleagues are the only people they regularly interact with. Especially people who work a lot have basically non existent or purely formal other relationships. They don't even know how to relate to people outside of job setting.
      • Nursie 6y ago
        That's a sad thing for them. I wonder if the US long-hours culture contributes to this.
      • 6y ago
• villuv 6y ago
  I have been working fully from home more than 5 years now. And before that almost as much half time from home. I think I can safely say that I would be devastated if I had to go full time office worker again. I have been working in office more than 10 years in the past. I find myself lot less distracted and interrupted even when the kids are at home. Digging in some code with other people over screen sharing is much better experience than over-the-shoulder way. Lot less fingerprints on screen is an added bonus. Sometimes I like to work late in the evening and I absolutely hated commuting home after long days in the office. YMMV obviously.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• matthewmacleod 6y ago
  I'd like to think that after the nth discussion of this topic we could all generally agree: - Some people prefer working in an office environment. There are valid reasons for this, and it's totally fine. - Other people prefer working at home, and this is also completely fine and understandable. - People other than yourself who experience challenges with either one of these arrangements are not idiots and the things they talk about are genuine issues that they experience, which are unlikely to be effectively solved by suggestions like "you are doing it wrong" or "get a new job". - Not everybody out there is in the same situation as you with regards to living arrangements, family commitments and so on. Solutions that seem obvious and easy to you are unattainable for others. My hope at least is that the experiences we've all had over the past year will help to make work more flexible and inclusive, so that we can take all of the above into account. In particular, is seems inevitable that companies should stop adopting an inflexible "no remote work" policy and instead make it easier for people to work from anywhere. I'd love to see some new and creative approaches – like companies using their newfound remote-friendliness to make it feasible to spin up small branch offices in co-working spaces, so that workers' commutes can be reduced but they still get an office environment if it's helpful for them.
  • ricardo81 6y ago
    I agree with the sentiment of your creative approach. I think a good middle ground is having offices in neighbourhoods, within walking/cycling distance where people from different companies come to work. They get the benefit of social interaction, "getting out of the house", and avoid a car journey. Living in the UK, I think that would also help restore the feeling of community, as a gathering point for people within a local area. Personally I prefer working from home and have done so for 20 years, almost all my working life- but I understand why people have reasons for preferring an alternative.
    • shaoonb 6y ago
      I personally feel that part of the benefit of the office is sometimes being able to unite against the common enemy that is your employer.
    • 6y ago
• diegocg 6y ago
  It seems that what he misses most is socialisation. This seems to me the root of the great divide in these discussions, some people love socialising, others not so much. I have read anti-office posts claiming the opposite of what he says: they feel more productive because they can focus on their job without people bothering them. Age seems to be a factor too. Married couples don't need so much socialisation (although the post seems to be an exception) and remote work helps to take care of children.
  • 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
    Probably a lot of people don't have a partner or kids to socialize with, other socializing venus are often cut off right now as well so they are slowly going insane in their non existant home office.
• enriquto 6y ago
  I feel really miserable working from home. Cannot get anything done. 1. Main problem is lack of social interaction. I now realize most of my work projects started in casual coffee conversations with people from other groups. Now there's nothing like that, and planned meetings never work that way. 2. Also, I really miss my commute. I had 15km of bike lanes in the forest every day, that were essential to reset my mind and start thinking about the new day. In the evening, the way back home was a useful disconnect.
  • lokedhs 6y ago
    Over here (Singapore), we were out of the office for several months, and while it was annoying, I didn't feel too bad about it. At least I could sleep in in the morning. My biggest problem was because I work a lot with people in Europe which meant that I ended up working very late every night, since there was no natural way to stop in the evening. Now that we're back in the office 50% of the time, I realise just how much nicer that is. You really get isolated when working from home, and one doesn't really notice it until you actually come back.
  • derwiki 6y ago
    Re: commute: would going for a walk or ride before and after work help? I’ve found myself biking far more during the pandemic because I can hop into a Zoom call just minutes after finishing my ride.
    • enriquto 6y ago
      Yes, that's what I try to do. Unfortunately in France we are limited to a disc of 1km radius around our homes, which is a purely urban area in my case.
      • newusr1121 6y ago
        So is your main problem with WFH or the pandemic?
        • 6y ago
• cryptica 6y ago
  I enjoy working from home. I never liked office small talk. We mostly just talked about our bosses' incompetence anyway... Was getting tiring and leading nowhere.
• PeterStuer 6y ago
  Most people that were not already WFH before the virus hit are confusing WFH with the effects of (semi-)lockdowns. No commute actually gives you under normal conditions the time to build out a real social life instead of a substitute work social life.
• mkl95 6y ago
  The only thing I miss about working in an office is having a workstation and other gear readily available. The startup I work for was on the brink of bankruptcy when I was hired, so I have worked with my desktop computer ever since. The current job market can be really dark unless you live in a handful of places.
• unnouinceput 6y ago
  All I've read in this long rant was "me, me, me, me".
• nvarsj 6y ago
  For me the biggest struggle with working from home has been psychological. I find it much harder to focus for some reason, even with a dedicated room to work in. When I was working in an office my mind would automatically switch to work mode, and I could be productive for 6+ hours. At home for some reason my mind never quite switches into work mode. I've been trying many things and it has gotten better but still not there. It's almost like I've developed mild ADHD. I wonder if anyone has some tips for this, as I'm running out of ideas. The only thing that has worked for me in the past is to go to coffee shops and despite the noise and general discomfort, my brain instantly goes into work mode and I can focus. But this isn't really viable w/ lockdowns.
  • HatchedLake721 6y ago
    I don’t know if you tried it, but I know who during lockdown and working from home would still wake up at the same time, do the same morning routine, dress, go outside and walk for 10-20 minutes like they’re going to work and get back home like you’re walking into the office.
  • jnurmine 6y ago
    Have you tried a morning ritual? I mean something to prime your brain to "it's work" mode. I've never had problems with working from home, but reading your post made me think of things which I'm perhaps doing differently. A morning ritual is something I've always done, not intentionally though, it developed organically. So, I always start work in the same way: make coffee, connect VPN, hook up the tmuxes, start the web browser and start the mail program. (Those processes get purposefully killed every night) It's just some silly busy work which takes very little time. It is also something I would not do outside of workdays. However, it mimics the things I'd do (and did) at the office. Also, maybe your dedicated room is too quiet? If you were a cubicle/open landscape worker prior to the pandemic, you surely now lack all kinds of uninteresting and annoying ambient noises, so could it be this silence makes things feel "wrong"? Perhaps a radio on an uninteresting channel might work?
• irrational 6y ago
  I only live about 10-15 minutes from campus and campus is beautiful. I get along great with my coworkers and boss. My current working arrangement is sitting in a chair in the corner of the living room with my computer on my lap and all the kids are there also doing there school work. All of this might make it sound like I can’t wait to get back to campus. To be honest just the thought makes me nauseous. I’ve loved working from home and would be thrilled to be able to continue working remotely from here on out. I love rolling out of bed and immediately starting to work. I love not having to waste time getting dressed and driving to work, but using that time to work. I love not being interrupted constantly by coworkers. I love using my own bathroom. I love having immediate access to my own kitchen. I love being able to see my family more frequently. I love getting more work done. Unfortunately, my work has made it very plain that we will be going back to working in the office at some point (probably has something to do with them completing an additional 5 million square feet of new office space this year).
• wdb 6y ago
  Personally, working from home, I have the feeling, that I now get the most worth out of my flat. Sure, I need to work from either the living room or the office space downstairs.
• aborsy 6y ago
  In Europe apartments are small. The energy, equipment and labor costs are also high. It can be difficult to work from home. I am more productive with separation of my professional and personal lives.
• cblconfederate 6y ago
  > I miss casual collaboration. Video chat is a poor substitute I think the opposite - online collaboration is always more productive, we can share documents easily, there is more focus, i can ignore parts of it, multitask etc. And the fact that you can have international people at will makes them superior.
• finalight 6y ago
  to me, the moment this work from home kicks in, i really enjoy it throughout i have a newborn to take care in my family. if i go to work, i can't concentrate because i will always wonder what is going on with my newborn. when i'm at home working, i can easily see what's going on exactly. the commute time is also also another issue. i use to spend an hour to and fro from the office each. now with this situation, i can wake up very late and still be on time for the meeting did my efficiency drop? hard to say, but i give my 100% even when i'm working from home
• Tomis02 6y ago
  We have a subset of the workforce who misses the office. Before you shed tears for them, consider when the roles were reversed, office work was mandatory and it was you who wanted (but could not get) remote work. Did your office-loving coworkers put pressure on upper management to support a hybrid model? Now that the tables turned, I don't think having too much empathy is justified. TL/DR: you think half a year of WFH is hard? It's nothing compared to decades working from the office.
• lazylizard 6y ago
  i don't.
• ryanbrunner 6y ago
  I think an important thing to keep in mind is that the past 8 months aren't really a good indicator of what working remotely is really like. I've worked remotely for the past 4 years, and this year has easily been the most difficult and most unlike typical remote work: - Normally, I'd try to mix up my day and get some socialization in by going to a co-working space 1-2 times a week. - I had a lot of freedom to catch up with friends after work, or over lunch, and while that's not impossible in 2020, it's very different (it's a much smaller group, always outside, and never over food or drinks - mostly just a walk or something like that). - I had much more freedom to travel (YMMV depending on your work, but I would work remotely from a cottage, or a nearby city sometimes if I was meeting up with someone - even a couple of times from more exotic locales). - For gigs where an office was close by, I still had the option to pop in once in a while, and for really remote jobs, I still tended to have some form of face to face interaction by doing a bigger visit every few months. If you're not liking remote work during 2020, I don't entirely blame you. I still don't think it's for everyone, but I would recommend trying it outside the context of a global pandemic.
  • draw_down 6y ago
    It’s true, but doesn’t change the fact that a ton of people are going to associate this period with working from home because it’s the first time they’ve experienced it. For some it may have opened their eyes to working from home and shown them that it could be a better way to organize their day. For others it will only underscore their preference for the office. I think that’s what you would find even in a more desirable experiment than the one we’re living through.
  • gamesbrainiac 6y ago
    This is a truly understated point. My usual routine would be to go to the office once a month, and every now and then just talk to people, meet up with colleagues on the weekend etc. This is really different from the regular WFH that I am used to.
  • sologoub 6y ago
    This! Can’t upvote enough. People keep glossing over the structural differences of being in a crazy, hopefully once-in-a-lifetime, situation and comparing to the good’ol days of when office was amazing. I’d love to hear from those that have to go in and deal with no amenities and all the safety stuff that’s now so imperative. The other thing to consider - a lot of posters talk about sub-par home setups. Much of that is driven by cost and living close to the office and preventing the city lifestyle. If you stop forcing people to the office, your costs will likely go down as now you won’t compete for space with families with kids or those who really want the space but hate commute. Seems like a win-win.
• ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  I don't, but a lot of it has to do with the job I did, and the culture of the office. I was a manager at a fairly "stolid," classic corporation. Since leaving that job (pre-covid), I started to "retool" myself back into engineering, and have been working at home, writing software. My personal productivity is absolutely jaw-dropping. I never thought I would ever be this productive. Don't believe me? see for yourself: https://github.com/ChrisMarshallNY#github-stuff https://github.com/ChrisMarshallNY#github-stuff But it's an unfair comparison. Apples to oranges. There's drastic differences between what I did in the office, and what I do at home. I also have a fairly massive monitor (an LG Ultrawide 49"). It makes a really big difference in productivity. I used to do all my programming on my laptop, during downtime from work (nights, weekends, travel, and vacation).
• arendtio 6y ago
  Actually, I like working from home better. I have a lot more interaction with my family and feel overall more comfortable. Productivity depends on the task. I think for most things it is higher, but causal communication suffers a lot. Yes, the equipment isn't as good as in the office, but I am working on that as I had to renew most my equipment anyway. My biggest concern is that the food I consume for lunch is a lot worse while working from home, but that is 100% my fault and something I could change. From my current perspective, I think my favorite model would be something like 2 days per week in the office and 3 days working from home. That way one could balance and appreciate the different advantages.
• richmond061094 6y ago
  I just realized that I earn more than working inside the office. I don't know, but it seems that I am spending too much when I'm at the office. Also, productivity-wise, I can perform well at home and not worried if my boss is checking me out or what.
• Symbiote 6y ago
  I was fine over the summer, but at 55.6° north in Copenhagen, sunset is now 15:53. That makes it more difficult to find daylight-time outside on a working day, and the city is in winter mood (fewer people wandering outside in the evening) so it feels more lonely. I changed the light in my office from a normal (for home), "warm" bulb to a 1500lm 6300K "daylight" one, which helps. It no longer feels like I ought to be relaxing at 15:45. I'm also going to make more effort to just cycle or walk around outside over lunchtime. Both things were easier when working at the office -- it felt like a "work" place with bright lights and big windows, and I couldn't avoid the outside-time to get there.
  • diebeforei485 6y ago
    I highly recommend a smart bulb that can change color, for example Philips Hue White Ambiance. You can even set it to automatically fade from daylight to warm at a time you specify.
• benbristow 6y ago
  Sums up my thoughts entirely OP. Missing the office, particularly the social aspect.
• saos 6y ago
  I do miss the free food, ping pong and banter. But, I’m a developer working with marketers and it’s hell being remotely next to them. Can be very draining and for that reason I prefer WFH. That way I can respond to them the next day, close Slack or just not reply at all.
• anupamchugh 6y ago
  We're finally coming to this stage where WFH doesn't seem fancy anymore. As a person whose worked remotely for a larger part of his life, I'd always missed the water cooler conversations and camaraderie people shared in office. With the pandemic bringing lockdowns, a lot of my colleagues thought work from home is great as they could stay in pyjamas all day long. Finally, as we see ourselves away from office in the near future, people are realising WFH isn't as fancy as it seemed. After a while it takes a toll on anyone and feels like living in a cage/prison.
• neya 6y ago
  I have a different opinion. I absolutely fucking hate working from the office. Any office. I have worked for companies big and small, so, I sometimes don't get most of the perks the author talks about. I absolutely value my privacy and don't want to feel like a criminal for browsing social media during office hours for brief periods of time while people stare into my screen. I absolutely fucking hate sitting across a transparent windowed room from where my boss can see how long I'm out for lunch and not and bring it up casually during chit chat. I absolutely hate that wall hanging TV (55") connected to Spotify at all times, playing stupid music I don't like. I absolutely hate namesake team lunches which again force me to give up my already short lunch break to discuss about work which stresses me out. I absolutely hate people in open desks sitting across me, talking so loudly that I simply cannot get through my day without an expensive noise cancellation headphone. (Recommendation: Sony 1000XM3 or XM4 works wonders). I hate forced "team outings" from office for "team bonding" activities which I cannot opt out of. I hate being dragged into whiteboard "brainstorming sessions" I cannot opt out of, while I could be working on something else important. Right now: I'm at home, doing my own thing, with 100% privacy to do whatever I like whenever I like. Nobody can walk upto me and yell "Hey, got 2 mins?" and expect me to attend to them or take offense if I don't. Nobody can drag me anywhere. People need to now send me calendar invitations which I can accept or reject along with a reason/description in the invite itself. I have full control over my time and I how I want to spend it. Team meetings are now shorter, more efficient. I can finally have some family time, save much more on transit costs and don't need to be tired by the time I reach home. Perhaps, the most important thing about NOT being in the office is that I'm not judged by the number of hours I'm glued to my desk, but rather the tasks that I complete on time and the quality of output I produce...which is how work should be judged. THIS is the value of remote work for me. I simply cannot see myself going back to office. I value my productivity and so should every company hiring me.
  • slumdev 6y ago
    I agree on all points. On this one... > Nobody can walk upto me and yell "Hey, got 2 mins?" and expect me to attend to them or take offense if I don't. Learn to say "No" to this one. You have to do it politely, of course, but it works. Wedge in an apology, an explanation, and a counter-offer. Make the other person feel bad for assuming they were entitled to interrupt you and then steal your time. Something like, "No, sorry, I really don't right now. I am SLAMMED and have to finish XYZ before noon. Could you come back at 1:30?" If they push, just repeat it.
• DigitalSea 6y ago
  I don't.
• x87678r 6y ago
  Wow I saw your photos and wondered if you work in the same company as me. My office is nearly identical. Turns out its kinda sad that its the other side of the country, in a completly different industry. I'd rather work from office too though.
• chrisan 6y ago
  > I miss productivity! I don't understand the productivity unless you just have bad employees playing games or browsing reddit. My productivity has never been higher. I get more done and have more free time to work on unplanned projects/spikes exploring new tech or rethinking old problems that could be solved better. > I miss having my employer pay for electricity and heat and fast symmetric multi-gigabit Internet access instead of shifting those costs to me. If your employer doesn't pay for these things (I'm assuming no one has gotten elec/heat, but I do get my internet bill paid for) you can deduct these on your taxes as a portion of your home if you have a side business like a saas or app or some consulting and reduce your taxible profits. Take a the wasted commute time and put it towards a LLC for yourself :) > Hell, I miss BART in all its loud and smelly glory. Who misses the single most time sink in our lives?? If yuo need "alone time" why not go for a walk, jog, or bike ride? Mental and physical health all in one go vs a sedentary ride to a sedentary job The rest of the stuff is either personal preference or where you chose to live
  • heavyset_go 6y ago
    > Who misses the single most time sink in our lives? Right? I'm having a hard time believing someone loves being forced to waste time twice a day, by increasing the likelihood of being in automotive accidents. Go hop on a bus or ride the train if you miss it that badly.
  • GreenWatermelon 6y ago
    > Productivity Some people have issues separating work and home, especially when the lines blur too much due to working from home. an Office makes you know you're at work, and thus it's easier to focus. For many, working from home means more distractions and thus a harder time focusing. > Personal preference Everything here is a personal preference, which is not a bad thing. The title starts with "I miss..." so it's not like the author claimed it's a thesis on working from home. It's the author's personal experience which resonated with quite a lot of people, of whom you aren't. Maybe they also enjoyed the human companionship, which isn't the same over video. Maybe they don't live in a place where they can easily switch to a bigger house for a spacious work space.
  • marcosdumay 6y ago
• rcpt 6y ago
  I miss it to but I don't miss the commute or the South Bay. If the valley weren't so awful this WFH would really be getting to me. But that's not the case and I'm really enjoying my time.
• xchip 6y ago
  That is because: - You have too much company at home, or you have none. - You cant prioritize well - You hate your job and you get distracted - You need supervision
• known 6y ago
  YMMV; I prefer to work from home;
• k__ 6y ago
  After working remote for 6 years now, I miss office a bit. I don't want to be forced to be there, not even one day a year. But I want to have the option to be with my co-workers for a couple of days every few months.
• maitredusoi 6y ago
  I don't ;) ;) ;) 4 years at home and no need to go to any office ;)
• Fumtumi 6y ago
  The biggest factor for me is really simple the benefit of investing in my office. I can now spend my money on my home office and build it as i like it for me and as long as i can work remote, im getting those benefits directly and i'm no longer bound by a company because of those benefits. I got myself a standing desk at home with a nice real wood top, which is awesome. I haave to have a work space at home anyway for taxes, learning/writing, playing games, doing something with pictures etc. Now i have a great home office and a great private 'home office'? And yes holy shit finally a clean nice bathroom i like going to.
• slumdev 6y ago
  I don't miss the office at all, and I never want to go back. If management asks us to go back full-time, I will start looking for another job. I'm happier and more productive than ever. I never want to go back to rotting in a cube farm pretending that 1-2 productive hours a day is enough. 1. Cubes, cube pods, and "open offices" are inhumane. 2. I don't have to wear headphones to "hear myself think" anymore. 3. Meetings no longer produce the positive feelings that result from the presence of another human, so there's incentive for everyone to eliminate the pointless meetings. 3a. I can multitask during the truly pointless meetings that haven't yet been eliminated. I can't tell you how much work I've gotten done during "town halls" during the last eight months. 4. No commute. 5. My house is way nicer than my office. I know this isn't the case for everyone. But if you're working as a software engineer, you can afford it. You have to ask yourself why it wasn't a priority before.
  • staticfish 6y ago
    let me guess. you're not a single?
    • dudul 6y ago
      Can you expand on that? Which of the points mentioned above make you infer that?
      • neuronic 6y ago
        Apparently, only people in relationships are allowed to enjoy working from home because you must be rotten if you're single but don't miss meeting office people. Some people need social interactions. It's their life blood. Others require very little of it and enjoy being alone. Neither category really understands the other.
    • sodapopcan 6y ago
      I'm single and never want to go back to the office again.
  • phponpcp 6y ago
• AtlasLion 6y ago
  I live in the Netherlands and I have secured an office on "temporary" basis 10 minutes by bike from home. I have 3 huge rooms, internet, water and electricity for a total sum of 250 Euros a month. I'm really enjoying this and I'm not looking forward to commuting 3 hours a day past Vivid.
• yakattak 6y ago
  I think the comments in this thread are testament enough to how divided this is. What I've found interesting is that there seem to be three sides to this, one with an overwhelming majority and two that are too extreme to really be appealing to everyone. On one end you have the, I want to be back in an office full time and I don't care about working from home. On the other end you have, working from home is the future and everyone should do it full time. Where, at least from what I've seen data wise, the majority is something flexible. Where WFH is an option, or something you can do when you feel like it. What's interesting, and this is purely qualitative, is that to me it seems that folks on the WFH full-time end of the spectrum seem to have zeal for this idea. Whereas those on the other side seem more indifferent. I personally believe that a hybrid solution is the best. I miss seeing the people I work with. I miss having company culture. I miss having a clear separation of work and home. However, I respect that others may have different goals and methods of working that WFH suits better. We should allow both.
  • Tomis02 6y ago
    > Where, at least from what I've seen data wise, the majority is something flexible. Where WFH is an option, or something you can do when you feel like it. Funny, the way I see it the majority is indeed flexible. Where office work is an option, or something you can do when you feel like it.
    • yakattak 6y ago
      I think that's a fair interpretation as well.
• chrisbrandow 6y ago
  I have a great home setup with decent equipment and separation of work space, etc, etc. I’m very grateful for that. But, I really miss my coworkers and all of the ways that collaborating is easier in person. It’s nice to be able to work from home some of the time, but all of the time sucks.
• swiley 6y ago
  Being forced to work from anywhere is unpleasant, whether it's from home or an office.
• commonturtle 6y ago
  There are parts I miss about the office and parts I don't. Do miss: Face-to-face meetings, bumping into people you know from other teams randomly, dropping by someone's desk to ask a question. Don't miss: High density open office environment (honestly don't mind open office that much as long as density is reasonable), commute (40 mins each way), free food / snacks (easier to eat healthy at home). After weighing up the pros and cons though, I think I would probably choose to go back to the office after the pandemic is over, although I might optimize for a job where I get my own office or a low density open office.
• dustymcp 6y ago
  Dont miss it at All we cut ties with the office 6months before corona its the best with small children :)
• offtop5 6y ago
  Author causally mentions having a family. I think that's the big difference here. Someone single like me absolutely loves WFH. I make a very good salary, don't have to worry about even showering if I don't want to. I have my own dual monitor setup. I can order whatever food I'd like. I wouldn't mind doing this forever , and the vaccine rolling out so we can all do concerts and stuff.
• koksik202 6y ago
  you stopped scrobbling on last.fm what happened?
• shoulderfake 6y ago
  I don't.
• nyxtom 6y ago
  I miss community
• ravenstine 6y ago
  I don't plan on ever going back to the office. HOWEVER, it is possible that a company could entice me to come in to the office, and here's how: - Stop with the ridiculous open office plans - If you have free snacks or a machine with Monster energy drinks, don't get rid of those things a year after instating them - Give my team a budget for tools, like if we need Parallels or Sketch, and make that budget transparent - Compensate me for transportation expenses that I wouldn't incur if I had a remote position - Don't get weird when I leave the office for a few hours to do whatever I want when there are no meetings or high priority tasks - Don't force me to change desks every 6 months because you failed the to properly organize the workspace the first time - Give me actual raises and not the poppycock you call a "merit increase" which only keeps up with inflation - Make it easy to use meeting space to host tech meetups (it's amazing how many businesses don't see the tremendous value in this) - Get rid of Agile. It doesn't work. All you need is sprints with planning and retrospective, a ticketing system, and a daily status sync through Slack.
  • balfirevic 6y ago
    > Get rid of Agile. It doesn't work. All you need is sprints with planning and retrospective, a ticketing system, and a daily status sync through Slack. What do you think "agile" is?
  • awakeasleep 6y ago
    You're lucky your merit increase even keeps up with inflation. I work for a fortune 500 tech company whose stock is up 600% in the past 3 years, and they got rid of the merit increase unless you get promoted or were nearly promo'ed. Even before that it was generally 1-2%, well below even the meager increases social security provides year over year.
  • deleted 6y ago
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  • slumdev 6y ago
    > Stop with the ridiculous open office plans They are the worst. > Get rid of Agile. It doesn't work. All you need is sprints with planning and retrospective, a ticketing system, and a daily status sync through Slack. Watch some Dave Thomas videos on YouTube. Real Agile software development is nothing like the ridiculous faux-Agile frameworks sold into today's corporate prisons.
• pts_ 6y ago
  Your productivity has falling is only your problem.
• m3kw9 6y ago
  Fair points but is as profound as not all of us like to wfh, but now is an option a lot more of us can have than ever. Is a good thing
• abellerose 6y ago
  I fundamentally believe anyone that wants to return to the office are shills/managers that believe people in seats where they can observe them is the only way they can justify their jobs. I personally would quit my job if I had to return to the office and the reasons have all been repeated by others already. Mainly, the office environment is just worse than what you can setup at home. I personally don't like sitting in an open space around others. I can communicate to whoever I wish by slack or video chat from home. Anyway I'm hopeful this goes on for another year and until I have to find another job if managers get their ill way.
• tabob 6y ago
  tl;dr brogrammer misses flouting his wealth and privilege in public with $15 fusion burritos and $18 well drinks so he did it in a blog instead.
• sontek 6y ago
  I miss it too. I've been a remote worker for most of my career (2005-2020) with a 4 year stop in silicon valley where I worked in an office. Those 4 years truly showed what I was missing and in 2019 I decided I was going start my own office and 5 of us started working out of it. Since we were fully remote already we were already buying everyone nice desks, monitors, keyboards, chairs, etc. at their home but not every home was great for home work even though we did our best. I have a dedicated office space with 4 monitors, a standing desk, nice chair, ergonomic keyboard, etc. but I still miss working out of the physical office. - Morning chatter and basic social stuff is nice in a neutral area. We do socialize over video calls too but its in your home where your dogs might be barking, your kids might be crying, your neighbor might be mowing his lawn, etc. The mute button has become an extremely important part of work and that ruins the experience - Separation of work and home. Doesn't matter if its the holidays and in-laws are in town or your friend from high school is visiting for the week. Or you're watching your friends dog for a week. You still have a nice work environment to go to. Its nice not having a commute and being able to work from home but in general its only nice if you dedicate a large portion of your home to work and that isn't always do-able. How many people have a spare bedroom in their home that is quiet enough that children, dogs, and neighbor lawn work don't disturb it? I think everyone of our team misses the office even though we only had one for 1 year of the 4 for we've been in operation.
• Waterluvian 6y ago
  I've been WFH for three years and hope to never ever ever go back. I do more in 20 hours than I did in a whole work week. And I don't have to drive. I only need one car. The savings and improved convenience is just ludicrous. My one and only must-repeat tip: spend money on a proper office space. If you can, have a dedicated room. And prepare to spent a few thousand on a proper desk and chair. Okay I lied, two pieces of advice: the point of a dedicated space is that you can walk away from it and not go back in until the next day or Monday. That's absolutely critical to success.
  • comprev 6y ago
    100% with you on the dedicated room. Locking the door at the end of the working day is vital to me.
• kidman007 6y ago
  I mainly miss being able to work from multiple places. I find that if I get too comfortable in a space I will be completely unproductive. It has happened at work when I had a desk and it is now happening at my home office. I miss being able to go to a coffee shop. I miss going to the library. I miss being able to go to the chair on the third floor of the office. I miss choice. Staying home is obviously the right thing, but I miss choice.
• pwthornton 6y ago
  I used to like working from home. I had a better computer and plenty of different places I could work in my house. But now I have kids at home all day and working from home is hell. It’s all about context. And you are correct: A lot of people don’t have good setups to work from home. And then on the other end, some offices are amazing and some are terrible. People who want people to come into an office should really try to make a better experience. Forcing people to come into a crappy office is insane.
• branda22 6y ago
  I was having the exact same thoughts this week. Now that the vaccines are almost here, and there seems to be an end in sight to this pandemic, I feel like my mind started get antsy for life to go back to normal.
• coliveira 6y ago
  The writer forgot the following: - People to clean your workspace; - People to replace equipment when necessary; - People to design your workstation; - Free electricity; - Free phone; - Free security; And the list goes on... all these costs have been shifted to workers.
  • djsumdog 6y ago
    Huh. I never thought about this. Some companies will ship you monitors and such, but you're right, a huge amount of cost has shifted to the worker. You now have to heat and cool your home for the entire day.
• deleted 6y ago
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• 02020202 6y ago
  tl;dr but this is 100% caused by the fact that we still work 8 hour a day. that is INSANE. i have worked full time job one year in my entire life and I will never, ever, do that again. it is beyond crazy.
• jokethrowaway 6y ago
  I agree with almost everything but one: I think people get much more work done at home than in the office. Having worked a mixture of office / remote in the past 15 years and having witnessed multiple teams going remote pre covid and another team going remote during covid, I think the office is a productivity killer. Managers think people are working because are in the office, people think they're working because they're in the office. But tasks proceed at abysmal pace between impromptu meetings and coffee breaks. Being alone at home and being judged just for the work you're completing, actually force people to do something, which is why they end up working more at home: having something to show for the next meeting takes time. There are tons of cons to remote working for the workers: - Likely worse workspace - Costs are shifted to the workers - Lack of social life - Lower loyalty to employers and teammates who are just a window on your laptop - Managers will have less of a relationship with you, making you more expendable and more easily replaced with someone in a cheaper country
• pacomerh 6y ago
  I don't miss the office mainly for the following reasons: - Too many distractions, between the noise, other conversations and shoulder taps - Waste time commuting. - No place to close your eyes without being "looked at funny". - Can't really go home and eat with my family, no time. - Eating is a struggle, since all the options to eat around my office are expensive and not too healthy. - I can't listen to my music without headphones. - mindless hallway chit chats (they're not for me). So I guess I'm not an office person in general.
• belval 6y ago
  I miss working at the office, yet I hope to stay remote forever. The fact is, I had a 45 minutes commute (so 1h30 every day!) before the pandemic. That quickly adds up to almost 8 hours per week in the bus/metro. Why not move closer to the city? Well for one I don't like living in high density urban areas. The noise level, construction work and high price makes it uninteresting to me. So I would love the hybrid 2 days in the office, 3 days remote to have real meetings without having to go back wasting ~10% of my waking time in public transports, but I absolutely understand that some (especially with children!) might want a clean separation between home and work.
• swatson741 6y ago
  One of the biggest problems I've found with working from home is that your work life and your professional life start to blend together in unfortunate ways. Working without office space is common in pre-startups and it's dreadful. I've been told that blending your work and professional life is simply foolishness on an individual level. Usually this isn't the case. The circumstances tend to be different and there's a lot of pressure to compress your life like this. It's dreadful. Everything feels like work after awhile. Other people I've spoken to in the startup/entrepreneur scene who work from home have conferred this sentiment. It's often the case that the lifestyle work from home produces is unsustainable in the long run. In this way it is a degenerate lifestyle. It's challenging to turn a home into a proper workspace. A rebuttal to those who dislike the office. I would argue that the many of the downsides of the office tend to be blessings in disguise. You aren't meant to be totally comfortable at work. Going to the office is like a performance. You aren't meant to be totally comfortable while performing a duty. It's like doing a presentation. You shouldn't go up on stage and let it all hang loose. The office space tends to cultivate the right things for working which are not the right things for relaxed living.
• egypturnash 6y ago
  I miss you guys working from the office. I transitioned to a laptop-at-the-cafe world years ago and now everywhere I work at is chock full of displaced workers looking for something better than the kitchen table, and has a lot fewer places to sit. At least I'm in the tropics so there's been a a growth in outdoors seating, I can't imagine how crazy I'd be going if I was still in the north. I've got a decent home studio but getting the heck away from home regularly is really important for staying sane.
• bitwize 6y ago
  My office was fucking WeWork. Or, as I call it, WePlayPingPong because the environment is not conducive to actual work. I was so glad to WFH, so much more productive, and I'm praying $COMPANY doesn't make us go back to the office when all this shit is over. Although they didn't renew their WePlayPingPong lease, so it might be an improvement, but still.
• Simulacra 6y ago
  I confess I miss working in my nondescript government contract warehouse. There is something to be said about the spontaneity in being in close contact with other humans. Spontaneous laughter, joy, anger, whatever the emotion, makes like move more fluidly. Working from home is like molasses.
• whateveracct 6y ago
  I worked in an office at Amazon for 2 years to start my career and haven't sniffed one since. And won't step foot in one ever again. > I miss productivity! Our engineering productivity has fallen through the floor since COVID despite everyone working longer and harder; I fundamentally do not think remote teams can ever be as productive as in-person teams. You miss productivity? Your paycheck-writer should but you have a world of personal opportunity by not being forced to spend half your waking hours on company property. Working from home made me realize that I could drive my hours of effort way lower than an office allows. All for the same salary (effective hourly rate skyrockets.)
• tamrix 6y ago
  There was something more energetic and exciting about working together in the office. Maybe it depends on the project or who you're working with but I'm not seeing it anymore with from home. In fact it's gotten pretty boring. I'm almost over it. I worked because it was fun. Now the fun has basically gone away it's not as appealing. Thinking of taking a year off and just doing my own thing.
• sorval 6y ago
  I'd be curious to know how common this is. I absolutely do not miss any part of the commute, or being constantly distracted by coworkers noise and needs.
• swat535 6y ago
  I don't miss the open plan office, the constant interruptions by coworkers who rather have small talk than actually work, the useless meetings, the uncomfortable chairs, the shared washrooms, the kitchen that is never cleaned, the morning commute in traffic, the hour long commute back home, the forced socializing after 5PM.. really? we're a family..? No thanks.
• trianglem 6y ago
  I’m having such a good life right now I doubt I could ever return to the office.
• stevenalowe 6y ago
  Have you considered if your teams’ productivity has tanked that it might be a systemic/process issue? Not just temporary stress or disruption but an underlying issue, now exposed, that before was casually worked around by lots of in person informal communication? Many business processes “work” because people adapt without noticing the swerves.
• deleted 6y ago
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• mcbutterbunz 6y ago
  I had an office built in my backyard earlier this year and I was lucky enough that it was completed just before the pandemic hit. I would highly recommend something like this for remote employees. There is a strong enough delineation between home and work with the added benefit that I can turn the office into sort of a man cave. I can “decorate” it in ways that I don’t really want in my home. I guess its sort of a compartmentalized place that I can be an adult for work but also a kid during off hours. I do miss the interactions with coworkers and the water cooler conversations but there are always trade offs.
• taylodl 6y ago
  What I don't miss about working from the office: - the commute - paying for parking - paying for lunch - wearing "business appropriate" clothes - inability to multi-task while sitting through meetings I'm forced to attend - inability to listen to music via a speaker instead of headphones My employer, a Fortune 200 company, allowed us to take our machines, monitors, chairs and whatnot home. I have a great setup. My team is more productive than we've ever been and in a way we've been closer as well. This is preferable to sitting on top of each other while wearing headphones so we can maintain some personal space.