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What is the best dumb TV?
- sunstone 6y agoYou're probably better off the buy the screen you like and pair it with a low cost NUC to sidestep the privacy invasion of the "smart" part of that TV.
- deadmutex 6y ago"better off" implies that this is a better recommendation than the article. However, it seems exactly the same.
- wmf 6y agoIMO when avoiding the "smarts" of a smart TV you end up fighting their menu system so I'd say it's worse.
- sunstone 6y agoNot at all, in this case "better off" means don't worry about whether a given TV has smart features or not. Buy the screen/TV you like and bypass the "smart" stuff. For example if I was in the market my choice would be one of the high end LG TVs. They all have a smart component but I would bypass that and still get the gorgeous screen.
- 013a 6y agoModern high end TVs, such as those from Samsung, intercept all video coming from every HDMI port and use content recognition on it for ad targeting. Granted: never put it online, and never use the smart stuff bundled with it, and you should be fine (assuming there's no critical software updates it needs to function, which has also happened). But its still disgusting behavior.
- pessimizer 6y agoWhat we really need is a turnkey FOSS smart tv suite of software distributed as a NUC OS. I'd prefer for the NUC to handle the tuner part, too, and let the tv simply be a screen with speakers. Or even a screen with speakers, a few extra ports that are routed back into the NUC, an embedded antenna, maybe a microphone and a webcam... there's still a lot of cool things you could do as a manufacturer of televisions even if you gave up on the modern businesses of rent-seeking and surveillance. TV manufacturers actually make things, things people want and don't feel they can do without. They don't have to rely on the financial scams and deception that make up the rest of the economy to stay in business. There's already a DRM standard for browsers. We don't need TVs to have proprietary bullshit preinstalled on them to have Netflix.
- maerF0x0 6y agoNUC = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Unit_of_Computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Unit_of_Computing Like a raspberry pi?
- Spivak 6y agoI agree with the sentiment but you’re only hurting yourself by choosing a worse TV at a given price point compared to just never connecting your TV to the internet. If you want a competitive display market where the best options are still dumb then look at getting a projector. The price and quality are comparable and I really like being able to “put away” the TV by just rolling up the screen.
- tinus_hn 6y agoSome of these TVs automatically connect to any open wireless network in the area, so that isn’t always an option
- mhh__ 6y agoIf it's obvious where it is you might be able to do some percussive maintenance on the antenna
- tenebrisalietum 6y agoI haven't seen an open wireless network for years around my residence. Is open Wifi still a thing?
- snazz 6y agoYes, especially in more densely populated places. I can pick up a few open networks from where I’m sitting in a moderately-populated American suburb.
- Nextgrid 6y agoIt can very well connect to those semi-public WiFi's that require payment or require to be a customer of that ISP (and every router from that ISP automatically broadcasts such a network in addition to the private one). This isn't something I've seen in the wild yet (beyond anecdotal evidence which I suspect is due to a misconfiguration), however it is a very valid concern especially considering most ISPs are in bed with the media/advertising industry and would directly benefit from allowing these TVs to connect to these networks and making a deal with the manufacturer to make them do so.
- mcpeepants 6y agounfortunately the best "dumb tv" these days is obtained by getting the "smart tv" that you _wish_ was dumb, and never connecting it to the internet.
- dudul 6y agoI've seen comments here mentioning newest models that won't make it past the boot step if they can't connect. I think these were Samsung but I've never seen real sources for it. Even if the comments were wrong, it is most likely coming soon.
- Zelphyr 6y agoThe Vizio that I bought four years ago has kind-of gone that far. They updated the OS so that you can't access the main interface (which includes built in Netflix and Amazon Prime, among others) unless you agree to a ToS giving them access to all kind of information I don't want to give them. So I factory reset it and now I only use my Apple TV with it and am all the more happy having done so. Screw Vizio. They'll never get another dime of mine.
- AnssiH 6y agoI think there are too many people that have no computer and no home internet (and just use the their phone for internet browsing) for that to happen, at least generally.
- RandomBacon 6y agoI hope you never have a visitor in your house that connects it for you.
- sneak 6y agoWho has visitors? Seriously though, why would someone in your house who’s this clueless ever be given the network password in the first place?
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- _alex_ 6y agoI got a “smart” tv and just don’t let it on the network. Problem solved.
- snazz 6y agoI read about Samsung (?) smart TVs connecting to nearby unsecured Wi-Fi networks and others containing LTE hardware with a data SIM.
- boardwaalk 6y agoSounds like a folk tale, unless you have a source? The second part in particular.
- t0astbread 6y agoIt may sound like a folk tale but to me at least it doesn't seem like a dumb strategy: Lots of people won't connect the TV to their home WiFi either because they're concerned about data collection or just because they don't want to spend time and effort on it. Most would consent to the TV's terms of service though, especially if a considerable amount of features are locked in case you decline. So if the TV manufacturer can sell its customers' viewership data for more than the cost of the LTE connection on average then there's a clear incentive to do it. Apart from that I'd always assume the worst case when it comes to digital self-defense.
- m463 6y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629155
- renewiltord 6y agoAre the LTE modem and SIM network-locked like the Amazon Whispernet?
- solarkraft 6y agoThe WiFi rumor is plausible because it's free for them, the LTE story is not because it would be quite expensive in multiple dimensions.
- vamsipk 6y agoHaven't read the article but as in the title, you shouldn't look to get the best dumb tv. Look for the best tv you can get, and see if you can make it a dumb one.
- deeblering4 6y agoI’ve had good luck with sceptre brand TVs. They are no frills and cheap. Plug in a $30 roku and hook it up to some decent speakers and you are good to go. I’ve had two of them going on 8 years strong now. Loads of connectivity to. From vga to dvi to component/composite, 1/8” audio in/out, spdif, hdmi, etc, etc. On the other hand the power supply in my (former) LG plasma tv died after 1.5 years. I DIY replaced that with a ~$100 part. Then 6 months later it broke down with large green vertical lines interrupting the screen, at which point I gave up on it. So for me it will be no frills cheap TVs from now on. If it breaks in a few years I can replace it without feeling as much of a hit to the wallet. And the external streaming boxes will always be better, faster and more flexible for me than the inbuilt “smart” software that stops getting updates after a few years.
- clairity 6y agothanks for responding based on the article rather than the title. the 2 recommendations from the article: * Sceptre 65" 4K UHD LED TV * Sceptre 50" 4K UHD Ultra Slim LED TV
- solarkraft 6y agoCurrently $379.99 (usually $429.99) and $239.99 (usually $299.99 at Walmart. Impressive! Electronics are quite a bit cheaper in the USA than in Germany. If quality is similar the panel won't be that great (but not terrible), the UI that is there will be very unimpressive and three's no proof on the web the model actually exists. I hope it's better.
- daodedickinson 6y agoI got a dumb external monitor for my laptop and then learned it doesn't have the right DRM for me to watch Blu-rays on it. Literally, I can view the Blu-rays on my laptop screen, but if I drag the window to the other screen, it won't display the video.
- hunter2_ 6y agoSounds like HDCP. I've read that some cheap hdmi splitters will strip HDCP as an undocumented side effect. By strip I mean communicate to the player/source that the display/destination is compliant regardless of whether that's true.
- tshaddox 6y ago> I've read that some cheap hdmi splitters will strip HDCP as an undocumented side effect I haven't heard that before, but according to Wikipedia a master key was leaked or reverse engineered 10 years ago, so presumably manufacturers out of Intel's legal reach can produce devices that strip HDCP.
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoFor 1080p yes; 4K generally uses HDCP 2.0 which as of now is unbreakable. OP unfortunately didn't specify. (An alternate option might be to rip the 4K BluRays, which is doable if you have the right drive, but also a bit of a pain.)
- daodedickinson 6y ago> (An alternate option might be to rip the 4K BluRays, which is doable if you have the right drive, but also a bit of a pain.) This is what I have been doing with MakeMKV.
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoIs it 4K? If it is, you're out of luck, but for 1080p you can buy HDCP strippers since the encryption is breakable.
- userbinator 6y agoThe best dumb TV is a monitor with an HTPC attached to it. Also, you can find "LVDS converter boards" which are sold for repurposing LCD panels out of laptops and such, but they can also be used to dumb down TVs. You can buy a large smart TV just for the panel (which is the majority of its price anyway) and replace its motherboard with a dumb converter board.
- deadmutex 6y ago> You can buy a large smart TV just for the panel (which is the majority of its price anyway) and replace its motherboard with a dumb converter board. This seems way harder than the alternative: just not connecting it to the internet.
- Waterluvian 6y agoSome smart TVs perpetually act like internet deprived teenagers and are really irritating to operate. I have one where a bunch of non internet features won’t work without internet.
- bostonvaulter2 6y agoWhich brand is that so we can avoid it?
- RandomBacon 6y agoSure, you may not connect it to the Internet, but you might have a guest over that logs into their Netflix account while you're in the other room.
- ebg13 6y ago> The best dumb TV is a monitor Can you find a monitor as large as a good TV for a reasonable price?
- chuable 6y agoNot sure how large you're looking for - however, I use a LG 43" 4K monitor as a TV. Lots of connectivity - Multiple HDMI, DVI and even USBC inputs.
- encom 6y agoIt's been a few years now, but when I bought my current TV (Samsung), one of the first things that popped up when I turned it on was several EULAs. I skimmed over them, and went "lol no", and pressed decline. This effectively lobotomized the TV. None of its "smart" features are enabled.
- RandomBacon 6y agoUnless you get a visitor over that wants to use those features and accepts them while you're away.
- encom 6y agoThey'd have to have my WiFi password as well, which is 64 hexadecimal digits, and the SSID is the poo emoji. Have fun entering that with a TV remote.
- RandomBacon 6y agoOr they could connect it to their phone.
- Nextgrid 6y agoI've heard of Ironcast.TV whose entire selling point is the lack of "smart" features, though I haven't ordered one and I'm not sure if they even shipped any, but on paper it looks nice and reasonably priced: https://displayy.studio/ironcast.tv/ https://displayy.studio/ironcast.tv/
- michaelmior 6y agoI'm not sure what you mean by lack of "smart" features. Everything is controlled via an app. Sounds the opposite.
- Nextgrid 6y agoAs in no online features & ads. They claim the app is open-source and I'm sure it only uses Bluetooth instead of WIFI thus no internet access at all. In any case, IR remotes are supported and the app is optional.
- michaelmior 6y agoI'm curious what makes you sure that it only uses Bluetooth. I didn't see anything about this on the page.
- Nextgrid 6y agoThat's how I would implement it, since Bluetooth is a lot simpler than Wi-Fi (no need to build a UI to manage networks, IP addresses, having a TCP/IP stack, etc) and in this case they don't need the online connection that WI-Fi would provide.
- RandallBrown 6y agoYeah, but it doesn't look like it has built in smart features like Netflix, Hulu, etc. I don't mind controlling my TVs settings with an app, I just don't want to have to deal with their crappy TV interface.
- m463 6y ago
- triceratops 6y agohttps://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-55-class-led-full-hd/6319556.p?skuId=6319556 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-55-class-led-full-hd/6...
- shotgunsparkle 6y agoPrism+ tv is just a tv without smart tv functions except it can run Netflix and YouTube and prime video. Thats it.
- jerrysievert 6y agoso, a smart tv then? that's pretty much what the smart tv features include.
- choward 6y agoSounds like the worst of both worlds. You have a smart TV but it's locked down even more.
- tootie 6y agoI posted in another thread but another option is commercial signage displays. They are built for commercial use which means they are very bright and durable and missing lots of consumer features. They can be more expensive but not outrageous.
- nfoz 6y agoLG sells them as some of their "Business" tvs, intended e.g. for hotels. In Canada some of them are branded as "Commercial Lite". Here's an LG 65" 4k HDR dumb TV: https://www.lg.com/ca_en/business/commercial-tv/lg-65UV340H https://www.lg.com/ca_en/business/commercial-tv/lg-65UV340H I have a similar model from a few years ago (purchased from Canada Computers fwiw), and I love it. Because I don't notice it exists. It just does its job, like a TV should.
- solarkraft 6y agoIt looks interesting, but the lack of pricing information suggests it to be unreasonably high (plus unnecessary hassle: truly "business"). What did you pay?
- vermilingua 6y agoI recently ordered a bunch of LG Commercial TVs for a job, at 55” they came out to about AUD$1600, which I think is pretty reasonable. As to the hassle, yes you’d probably find it difficult to buy one for personal use. L
- swimfar 6y agoThe Scepter 50" 4k TVs recommended in the article are $200 at Walmart. The quality probably isn't as good, but at 1/8th the cost that's a hard up-sell.
- Something1234 6y agoI have a sceptre. They're really good for the price and super reliable. I won't buy anything else. In fact I might go get a couple spares so I don't have to worry for a while.
- rkeene2 6y agoI literally cannot tell if you are joking.
- davidhyde 6y agoMy advice is to stop seeing a “smart tv” as a feature and see it as an expensive piece of equipment subsidised by extra advertising revenue. Don’t get upset about this, just understand it for what it is. Now, what can you do about it? Easy, don’t connect it to the internet. They will tell you that it needs updates but come on, what is a security vulnerability going to to to something that’s only output is a screen and audio? So there is your answer. Don’t use the smart features, plug in something you trust like a raspberry pi and use the expensive part of the product (the screen itself) without incurring the cost (the advertising they were using to subsidise the screen)
- aphextron 6y agoWhat's really concerning is that "smart" TV's are no longer an upgrade, but the standard. You practically cannot find a new dumb 4k TV. When I went to purchase one recently, Best Buy at least had no other option.
- wvenable 6y agoAll smart TV's are dumb if you don't connect them to the Internet.
- bigbubba 6y agoThey won't spy on you, but you'll still have to deal with the laggy shitware they run. In some I've had the misfortune of using, simply changing the inputs was a torturous affair because of the shitty software the TV was running.
- devrand 6y agoThankfully most let you skip the UI entirely by having direct input selection IR commands. Get yourself a generic universal remote that either has these buttons, or custom ones you can program. With this I basically never see the UI on my LG and Samsung TVs, and I certainly don't interact with it unless I need to get into settings.
- loughnane 6y agoI’m happy with my TV from Spectre, though it’s speakers aren’t good so I have separate ones set up
- klodolph 6y agoMy main problem with smart TVs is that they might take a while to turn on.
- mateuszf 6y agoI'm reading these comments, and am quite happy that I bought an LG B9 TV. It's smart, fast, has no ads, the UI is quite cool, has a lot of inputs and has an excellent video quality. The only downside was the price, but that's because of OLED.
- ekianjo 6y agoJust get a projector.
- umvi 6y agoCan't you just buy a smart TV and not connect it to your WiFi? It's not like they come bundled with 4G to pipe adverts...
- john_moscow 6y agoIn my personal experience, TV as a separate device has been obsolete for at least 15 years. A home cinema projector together with a PC and a wireless keyboard/mouse does much better. You get to choose what you watch, you see no ads, you can use it for gaming & browsing, and as long as you can be bothered to roll the blinds, you get plenty of contrast. You just can't beat that with a regular TV, no matter if it's dumb or smart.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y agoThis article reads like paid blogger content.
- csa 6y agoThat’s because it’s an Amazon affiliate site. The content and structure is intended to be SEO-optimized, but I think it could use some work.
- crazygringo 6y agoSome people are suggesting just don't connect your smart TV to the internet, others are suggesting it might still connect to open (unsecured) Wi-Fi networks. Is there any major brand of smart TV's that will attempt to connect to open networks, in order to download updates, ads, send back data, without your consent? I've never in my life had a Wi-Fi-enabled device that would connect to a network I didn't tell it to, and I'd view that as a major breach of norms/ethics/security/everything. Is it fine to just not configure the Wi-Fi? Or are there brands that are actually known, proven, to circumvent that, if you have open Wi-Fi nearby? (I've been googling but can't find anything.)
- lukeschlather 6y agoSamsung TVs have been reported to connect to any available open WiFi network.
- pacamara619 6y agoI believe some devices sold by Amazon and Google (not TVs itself but things similar to a chromecast) have tried to connect to open networks because DNS requests (of advertising domains) were being blocked. I don't think a TV manufacturer doing the same thing is improbable if it didn't happen already.
- canucker2016 6y agoThis reddit user said their Samsung TV connected to a nearby open WiFi AP. see https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/bpr6xs/if_you_choose_to_not_connect_your_samsung_smart/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/bpr6xs/if_you_choo...
- rainbowzootsuit 6y agoFeatures: 4K Pixelssize™ Dolby gave us some letters to put here HDMI, VGA S/PDIF, An old coat hanger Wardriving supported
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- nullc 6y agoThe LG OLED TV's have "smart" features but work just fine as HDMI connected display devices-- fast the initial startup any of the "smart" stuff appears to be invisible and inert.
- Igelau 6y agoNSFW if dumb is a bad word in your office culture.
- everdrive 6y agoI've got a TCL from 2018 with no smart features. The picture and audio are great, but the screen definitely ghosts with quick video games. It was also only ~$300, though.
- iramiller 6y agoIts not a tv at all but a projector... still plenty of these around that have no functions other than displaying what is input. As a bonus it is much easier to deal with when it is eventually obsolete than an extremely large flat panel tv. ALR screens are pretty good these days too so you dont have to use it in a cave.
- spike021 6y agoI have an older Vizio from ~3 years ago. 1080, 43" (IIRC), and absolutely no "smart" features other than HDMI-CEC (I forget if that's the right term). Works super well. PS4 games look fine on it. Video from my Apple TV looks good. I think that TV cost me maybe $300. Probably worth much less now. But I don't need to worry about ads, updates, etc. It's pretty great.
- dehrmann 6y agoMy fear with dumb TV options that aren't intended for commercial use is that Samsung, LG, and Sharp make a lot of the panels, they keep the good ones for themselves, and they sell off the lower bins to companies making generic and store brands.
- html5web 6y agoLifehack: Buy smart tv and remove WiFi module. I’ve purchased LG 70” tv for $700, the quality of the TV is decent
- trynewideas 6y agoI'm sure there's plenty of market research that explains why there are maybe two mediocre dumb TVs and a handful of bad smartphones with screens smaller than 5", but I'm kind of glad to be left out of all of it. The dearth of things that I'd actually want to buy sure has saved me a ton of money.
- floatingatoll 6y ago“A few of the more popular ones are the Roku Streaming Stick+ , No products found., Amazon Fire TV Stick , and No products found.. There are many more options in the market to choose from.” I use a Sony smart TV that I’ve never given a network connection to and it’s fine with that, starts up to inputs and let me sideload firmware updates and apps when I need to.
- Animats 6y agoSomehow I suspect that site is a Sceptre ad.
- mark-r 6y agoSure looks like one, doesn't it?
- hesdeadjim 6y agoI’m quite content with the Sony I purchased a few months ago. It was simple to make dumb, I just never connected it to a network. Compared to other manufacturers user interfaces it’s quite low key and out of the way.
- Finnucane 6y agoOur Sony is about 10 years old now, and still works fine. Not only do newer TVs not have any features we want to pay for, but most of them are too big for our living room. We don’t have some gigantic suburban McMansion.
- akeck 6y agoI've decided that I'm going to replace our decade old workhorse Toshiba with a 43" "gaming monitor" (e.g., Phillips) when it dies. We'll just get a stand alone digital tuner or use MythTv et al.
- SMAAART 6y agoInteresting read. I wonder if we're going to get to a point where dumb TVs' prices > Smart TVs'
- 082349872349872 6y agoI doubt https://www.manufactum.com https://www.manufactum.com carries anything as downmarket as TV's, but since their schtick is grandma-style at high prices, if they ever do that'll be a place to look for spendy dumb TV panels. (1 EUR = 1,17 USD)
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- Mountain_Skies 6y agoI bought a cheap 65" RCA 4k tv from Wal-Mart. No smart features. Even the USB port has no functionality. The menu system is a bit slow and clunky but it serves its limited purpose fine.
- halturing 6y agoAdmittedly off topic but this might qualify as "the best dumb TV": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBndhR9GcWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBndhR9GcWM
- idealstingray 6y agoMy apartment's current A/V setup is an old third-hand projector I picked up for free pointed at a blank wall of our living room. The only thing I paid for was the serial cable so I could configure the correct input port, but even if I'd purchased the projector new it would run me about $150. In comparison, one of the article's top recommended dumb TVs is $450, while the other is "no longer available". Plus we can use a real computer with a keyboard sitting on our coffee table to control it instead of using the TV remote to painstakingly enter every character. Sure, we could have a less janky setup in many ways -- one day I aspire to build an actual wall shelf for the projector -- but the experience is miles better than any TV, smart or otherwise.
- dsclough 6y agoWhat projector?
- teeray 6y agoMany comments suggest never connecting smart TVs to the Internet, and others rightly point out that the TV could seek out open APs. What about deploying some hardware to basically launch a deauth attack on the TV whenever it tries to connect to anything? Wi-PWN[0] looks like a fairly good starting place for this since it can be flashed on an ESP8266. It’d probably need some tweaks for this use-case though. [0] https://github.com/Wi-PWN-old/Wi-PWN https://github.com/Wi-PWN-old/Wi-PWN
- andrewflnr 6y agoIs that cheaper than just buying a dumb TV?
- gruez 6y agoNowadays anything mid or high range you pretty much have to get a smart TV, or a commercial "dumb" unit that's overpriced. During my last TV search a few years ago I wasn't able to find a good mid range TV that wasn't smart.
- lostlogin 6y agoPutting it on its own subnet with crippled internet would surely help. Or at initial setup let it do it’s thing for an hour or 3 while logging, then block all the access that you don’t want (eg Netflix access only).
- crorella 6y agoBetter to call them "non spy TV" sounds more accurate.
- jeffbee 6y agoThe displays in the article are TVs for people who hate their eyeballs. If you are looking for a quality picture there's really no substitute for LG OLED. They are smart TVs but the features are unobtrusive and work well. If you want extremely good picture quality and also insist on "dumb" the best you can get is a second-hand Pioneer or Panasonic plasma display. I don't think any of these ever had "smart" anything, and their image quality is top notch.
- bpicolo 6y agoI have an LG smart TV of some sort and haven't noticed any advertising on it at any point. Happy with it.
- mdhen 6y agoyeah I've got the last model plasma that panasonic made. it's got absolutely incredible image quality, you just need to be okay with not having 4k. and it is dumb.
- satysin 6y agoAgreed. Sadly you have to choose. If you want a dumb TV you have to accept poor image quality. If you want good image quality your only option is a smart TV. I still have my Pioneer Kuro LX6090 which is/was the most incredible TV at the time. For older, non-remastered content I still prefer it over my LG OLED. However if you want the very best image quality with 4K HDR Blu-rays then you can't get better than an OLED. IMHO the best option on the market today for movies are the Panasonic OLED range followed by Sony and LG which are roughly equal (to my eye). If you want it for gaming as well I would recommend an LG though. While the image processing isn't quite up there with Panasonic or Sony they offer more options and features that next gen consoles will benefit from and let's be real unless you're a professional I very much doubt you will notice the difference between an LG OLED and a Panasonic OLED but you will certainly notice the 1-2 grand price difference and most likely the next-gen console features like VRR :) I also have a Sony PVM which I have setup for older consoles as games on PS2 and earlier systems look awful on a flat screen (LCD, plasma and OLED) compared to even a mid-range CRT. I managed to pick up the PVM for 'cheap' a few years ago from a media company that was relocating and selling off old equipment from storage. It is also the best way (imho) to watch most VHS content, especially non-professional/camcorder stuff.
- squarefoot 6y agoDumb TVs are disappearing, monitors are more pricey, and panels for digital signage even more; so why not attempting a different approach like gutting a smart TV then connecting the panel to an external driver? It has been done with smaller monitors, through dirt cheap boards that made possible adding HDMI to old VGA-only panels, for example: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20201002182740&SearchText=led+screen+driver https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=S... How difficult/expensive would be to scale the same solution to 4K panels?
- squarefoot 6y agoReplying to myself: just add "4k" to the search string on the Aliexpress site, scroll the page and some interesting 4K driver boards will appear. For example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000910752449.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000910752449.html More pricey of course, but affordable and still much more convenient than any ready made screen. Just pay attention that they must be programmed for the specific panel they'll be used with. You will have to tell the seller the exact model of your panel before the purchase. Lower resolution ones could be programmed with software called "rova tools". http://tech.mattmillman.com/info/lcd/rovatools/ http://tech.mattmillman.com/info/lcd/rovatools/ Not sure about the new ones. Probably after some time similar software will be written.
- scrose 6y agoI gave away my TV a little over a year ago now, with absolutely no regrets. But if I still had one, I’d definitely be looking into rooting it specifically so I could uninstall all the bloat they now come with and ensure it doesn’t try and connect to the internet, or break itself while trying.
- magnetowasright 6y agoI absolutely adore my totally dumb $650 48" JVC 4K LED TV. NFI on input lag stats but I game (offline) and it looks beautiful and my SO games (online) and doesn't have issues outside Australian fraudband speeds. It's got pretty much the same operating system as the ~15 year old cheapo TV (22" 1080i) it replaced. It just works. It's perfect for our usage and I hope it will last as long as the 1080i TV did. I'm trying desperately to convince some family members who have an expensive LG 'smart' TV to buy something dumb - they don't use the smart 'features' and I am sick of getting calls that they need help re-flashing the firmware because it got stuck booting for the hundredth time or android/the TV app froze again. When the stupid thing 'works' it takes several minutes to boot and the TV app regularly just ...closes. When you try to set the time and date, it saves it wrong or just unsets it so you it can't show you the TV guide which is just atrocious! It can't even have feature parity with the first digital signal pre-'smart' TV TVs. It's almost unusable and it's ~3 years old, which is just unacceptable for a TV from an industry leading manufacturer that cost several thousand dollars. I hope this is not a typical experience. "Just don't connect it to the internet" does not a dumb TV make. It doesn't negate the atrocious software on the stupid things, or the resulting (imo) shortened lifetime. It also doesn't necessarily stop it from finding a network. "Use a pi-hole", "blacklist it in your router", or "remove the TV's network card" sucks as well; consumers shouldn't have to go to such lengths to circumvent such atrocious anti-consumer practices in the first place, even if they do know how to. It took me a few months to track down a totally dumb 4K TV with a big screen. Most manufacturers just don't make them any more. Why would they? It's so much more profitable for them not to, even if there is a demand. I'd love to know how much of a demand for totally dumb TVs there is. /rant
- emmelaich 6y agoAnother vote for JVC. My 58" was half the price of so-called smart TVs and looks great.
- alecthomas 6y agoThis one? https://jvctv.com.au/product/58-4k-uhd-led-tv/ https://jvctv.com.au/product/58-4k-uhd-led-tv/ No mention of "Android" or "Smart", but it does do DVR of some sort, so it's not 100% clear.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- t0astbread 6y agoOn another note, I've been wondering how much digital TV protocols themselves can be used to track individual viewers. Some stations have prompted me to accept their privacy policy (via a "red button" interface) where they also mention cookies (on the TV iirc). Most of us probably know a lot about about protocol families like the web and TCP/IP but digital television and radio seem to be a bit overlooked. Does anyone have any pointers to good learning resources around DVB, DAB and the like?
- gruez 6y agoTerrestrial TV and radio are probably safe from tracking. The set-top boxes that the cable/satellite company gives you... not so much.
- t0astbread 6y agoOk, why do you think this is the case?
- gruez 6y agoBecause terrestrial TV and radios are strictly receive-only devices, whereas cable/satellite set-top boxes are connected to the provider's network (otherwise you can't get VOD or PPV, for instance). I guess it's possible for you to buy a receiver that's IOT enabled and phones home, but that'd be a conscious decision on your part.
- t0astbread 6y agoOh that's interesting, thanks for sharing!
- kebman 6y agoI don't have a TV, only a few monitors (it's very liberating, actually). So instead I'll talk about my microwave. Yes, unironically! :D It has two dials. OMG how do I survive with only two dials? How do I program it? Well, the answer is, unsurprisingly, that I don't program it. Instead I crank it to watever wattage I need (usually the top one), and the time I think it'll take until the food I becomes hot. Aaaand that's it. No programming. No fiddling or mindlessly pushing buttons in the hopes of finding the right one. Only two dials. One for wattage (power output), and the other for time. I think it's really great. There's even some indicators on the Watt-dial for thawing and stuff like that, but I seldom need it, so I usually just keep it rested on 800W. It's the required wattage for most TV dinners anyway. And hot pockets. Don't forget hot pockets guys. How would I survive without...... If you didn't get it, this is actually a post about UIs, and how much I love the book The Design of Everyday Things by Donald Norman.[1] [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654 https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expand...
- greetings 6y agoOk, I'll ask. Which Microwave do you have?
- wlesieutre 6y agoI don’t know if this is the same one, but a quick Google came up with the Turbo Air Radiance Series TMW-1100NM. Never seen these but I want one, microwave UIs are the worst. That’s more of a commercial one, a cheaper version (Impecca) came up too but the link was broken.
- Robotbeat 6y agoIs it possible to run Ubuntu for ARM on smart TVs?
- TOGoS 6y ago> in today’s standards, 30-40 inches is not enough screen real estate. TF does that mean? What 'standard' indicates the amount of screen real estate that qualifies as 'enough'?
- dirtnugget 6y agoI think what the author is trying to say is that the average TV which a consumer wants to buy these days is above that.
- x3haloed 6y agoSo Sceptre. That’s all we have. Yeesh.
- neilv 6y agoIf I can add an additional requirement to the question, what are good dumb-TVs/monitors that have acceptable integrated speakers (driven from HDMI)? (To avoid "smart TVs", I got a nice Sony Bravia TV, from circa 2009, and even that has more "smart" than I'd like (e.g., linked to online services that were discontinued), but it doesn't try to get onto the Internet, it has a great 1080p picture, the remote worked easily with my airgapped Blu-ray player, and the integrated speakers are good enough for my needs.) (Before that, I used a series of monitors, usually hooked up to PC 2.1 external amp&speaker systems, since PC monitor integrated speakers I tried were awful, and using kludges like a smart power strip to power on/off monitor and amp/speakers from PS3/whatever controller. I decided to go to a vintage Sony TV, just to simplify that mess.) I'm not 100% happy with the vintage TV approach, and would like to move to 4K+ someday, while keeping decent integrated speakers/soundbar and be able to plug video&audio&limitedcontrol right into my PS4 (PS5?) and random other HDMI-spitting devices.
- theshrike79 6y agoIt's next to impossible to have good or even decent speakers in a flat TV and keep the price at a sane price point. My advice is just to ignore the speakers and get any soundbar, literally anything will be better than the built-in ones. I went all-in on Sonos because it's wireless and the sound quality/UX are excellent. Just got their soundbar (the Beam) first and went up from there to a full 5.1 setup.
- lostlogin 6y agoI know they are (rightly) slated here for their business practices, but I love my Sonos speakers. I just have the Play Ones and they are so much better than anything I’ve ever had before.
- gingerlime 6y agoYes, I also bought the Sonos one, and in terms of sound and design it's delightful. Unfortunately, under the clean and unassuming look lurks a spying monster. Sonos tracks the hell out of everything. Even in the EU where consumers are supposedly protected by GDPR and other directives. A look at their privacy policy[0] makes my hair stand > Functional Data: > This data is absolutely necessary for your Sonos Product or Service, including Sonos Radio, to perform its basic functions in a secure way and you will not be able to opt out from this data collection, sharing, and/or processing if you want to continue to use your Sonos Products. > We collect: > Registration data. This data includes your email address, location, language preference, Product serial number, IP address, and Sonos account login information (as described above). > System data. This data includes things like Product type, controller device type, controller operating system, software version, content source (audio line in), signal input (e.g. whether your TV outputs a specific audio signal such as Dolby to your Sonos system), information about WiFi antennas, system settings (such as equalisation or stereo pair), Product orientation, names of the music service(s) you added/enabled on your Sonos product, the names you have given your Sonos Product in different rooms, whether your Product has been tuned using Sonos Trueplay technology, system performance metrics (e.g. the temperature of your Product or WiFi signal strength) and error information. And this is "just" the "absolutely necessary" data ... by default they also collect more Usage data, which as you can imagine, includes much more... [0] https://www.sonos.com/en/legal/privacy https://www.sonos.com/en/legal/privacy
- buttholesurfer 6y agoI'm gonna make the assumption that we're all techies here. But does anyone else desire for simple things in your personal life? I drive an old truck, have new(er) speed queen washer/dry, a dumb fridge, no cable box, dumb(maybe just old) t.v.s, etc? A few years ago I bought a toothbrush that had an app. This was a moment in my life ill never forget. I was using my phone to brush my teeth... I have since started removing "smart" and "connected" things from my life. Partly because I create software that always has problems and partly because I know the complexity adding computers to everything adds... I love simplicity these days. Im thinking of getting one of those dumb phones too.
- Semaphor 6y ago5.5 years ago I bought a 40" Hisense LTDN 40D36 dumb TV. Back then there was a review somewhere that said it’s better than others in its price class (310 € ≈ $ 364) and most importantly it had no smart features. I am still happy with it and I dread the day I’ll need a new one. The much mentioned (including in this article) Sceptre TVs don’t seem to be available in Germany and HiSense seems to have switched to smart-TVs only. Before I bought it, I saw smart TVs at other’s places and never understood why anyone would actually want those.
- snappr021 6y agoMainstream news coverage of US politics.
- TheRealPomax 6y agoRecommending a 4k TV at 50" is really weird. You can't tell the difference between 4k and 1080 at that size until you get closer than 7 feet, and if you're the kind of person who lives in a place with enough room for a couch and a TV, you're not putting only 6 feet between them. Either it's a small room and your couch is up against one wall and the TV up against the other, or you have a large room, and the couch is still more than 6 feet away from the TV. If you want a dumb TV, get a 50" or even 55" 1080p TV and save yourself hundreds of dollars that you can spend on literally anything else that'll make your "TV" (but who are we kidding: netflix and youtube) watching more enjoyable. But a popcorn maker and 10lbs of popcorn. Get a reasonable sound bar. Get many nights of take-out for in-home movie dates with your SO. Hundreds of dollars go a long way.
- zionic 6y agoThis comment is insanely wrong about resolution, assuming you have 20/20 vision.
- TheRealPomax 6y agoexcept of course, it isn't. https://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/ https://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/, https://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4k-calculator/ https://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4k-calculat..., etc. etc.
- null_object 6y agoAt a reasonable price Loewe make the best TVs that have the ‘good’ parts of smart, and none of the intrusive and privacy-invading parts. The interface is minimal, the sound and picture are amazing, and the units themselves look beautiful[1] Bang&Olufsen do all the above, at an unreasonable price[2] [1] https://www.loewe.tv/int https://www.loewe.tv/int [2] https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/televisions https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/televisions
- petepete 6y agoB&O use LG panels. That's a big premium for privacy and a nice finish.
- foepys 6y agoAs far as I know only LG, Samsung, and a third I don't remember make panels. Everybody else just buys them and puts them into their TVs. Some manufacturers add additional image processing software but the panel is still "standard".
- lostlogin 6y agoIt’s hard to get B&O or Loewe in small sizes. I’d like a 32-42inch and this almost isn’t a thing. For some reason I’d like it to be 4k but this doesn’t really make sense at that size.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y agoI was looking for dumb TV for privacy, security reasons and wasn't able to find one [1] and ended up using computer monitor for most of my needs. Good to know that there are others who would like to have a dumb TV for the same reasons. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/64-make-tv-dumb-again-privacy-cybersecurity https://needgap.com/problems/64-make-tv-dumb-again-privacy-c...
- kioleanu 6y agoI bought a Phillips dumb TV about 2 years ago after spending way too much time searching for a TV. The caveat is that it’s in the low cost range, otherwise my alternatives were extremely limited. In the TVs manual they mention multiple times and in a fatalistic tone that I must register my purchase with them and always install the latest updates. The register form needed my full address and phone number. And that’s not I want. I want to purchase a device and my relationship with the seller ends there, unless it needs repairs. My kitchen appliances are 10 years old and they are starting to give up the ghost. I had to replace the dishwasher last week and was looking for a very specific feature (that the door pops open itself after it finishes washing). Incidentally this feature is a premium feature which mostly limited my options to the upper end of the price spectrum where, you guessed it, most dishwashers connect to the internet. And it’s marketed with some type of Cory Doctorow type of bullshit like “we’ll just order cleaning supplies when you’re done”. I had to eventually cross research based on keywords and read the .pdf manuals of about 20 dishwashers to make sure they 1) have what I want and 2) they don’t connect to WiFi
- foepys 6y ago> the door pops open itself after it finishes washing). Incidentally this feature is a premium feature I'm not so sure about it being a premium feature. Maybe it's different where you are located but a quick search on German price comparison websites showed dishwashers as cheap as 280€ having this feature.
- ggm 6y agoWould it ship from Germany cheaper than a high end wifi unit? Seriously, the Q has merit if "no wifi" is a deal breaker. Personally, I'd run a second open ssid, trap the ip and blackhole packets with a rPi
- dieformycrew 6y agoYou could just setup the Pi as an access point and make it act like a bridge. Then drop anything that comes through on it that isn't DHCP.
- noodlesUK 6y agoMy strong advice for my fellow HN readers is to buy a nice projector. Optoma makes several 4K models, and you can buy a screen of whatever size you want (silver ticket on amazon for instance). They’re fairly inexpensive if you just want a 1080p or even one of the lower end 4K models, and none of them have any ‘smart’ tech. No malware, no anything. The immersiveness of a 100+ inch screen beats any TV, and if you want, you can hide the screen when you’re not using it. I would never buy a TV again. You also get to use real speakers, and because the system is much more modular, you can upgrade components much more at your convenience. Your friends will be jealous of your movie and gaming experience, but in the end you’ll probably have spent the same as you would have on a TV anyway.
- akvadrako 6y agoThat depends if you want to use it in a dark or quiet room. A decent and bright projector is at least double the price of a decent tv. All the bright ones I’ve seen also require fans.
- tigershark 6y agoI think that projectors are not a good choice for a frequent use. The lamp has a relatively short lifespan. Their brightness in big screen sizes is abysmal, so you can’t use them in a lit room. Contrast, HDR and colour rendition is not on par with OLED as far as I remember.
- schrijver 6y agoLED projectors have a very long lifespan, require less cooling and consume little energy. They are less bright though than models with traditional lamps. Up to the point that, with the tiny projector we have, it only works when the sun has gone down. And indeed we switch off the lights when we turn on the projector. All this means you can’t use the device as a kind of audiovisual wallpaper while you go about doing other stuff, and for those who need that scenario a projector is probably not a good alternative. We switch it on to watch something specific from start to finish. I don’t mind this particular limitation, I feel like I pay more attention and enjoy watching things more in this way.
- thdrdt 6y agoIf you don't need a big TV a huge monitor is a good option. For me LG always stands out as a brand for it's low price compared to the image quality. They even have a 48" 4k monitor. Still not as large as a huge TV, but for most people big enough. But keep in mind that the audio of most monitors is just bad.
- ce4 6y agoMaybe have a look at NEC's professional multisync series meant for business display requirements. Lots of input ports, rs232/ethernet remote control capability, PiP etc.: https://www.nec-display.com/ap/en_display/filter.html https://www.nec-display.com/ap/en_display/filter.html
- threecoins 6y agoAren't all smart TV dumb tv if you decide not to connect it to internet and use its input ports alone?
- diroussel 6y agoSometimes the setup wizard won’t let you progress the setup until you have connected to the internet.
- Godel_unicode 6y agoA projector and a screen.
- brnt 6y agoThere's one thing I like about smart TVs: I can bring an external drive everywhere (hotels, holiday homes, family), hook up and play movies/whatever materials I want to see/show. Very convenient. But sure, signing my Samsun TV up, hell no. I like the offline and zero effort nature of the above method.
- thenoblesunfish 6y agoI though this was going to be about silly TV shows :(
- a_imho 6y agoIn my experience people are wary of smart TVs way more than other smart devices, especially phones. Why is that?
- aj7 6y agoAn old plasma you buy for 20 cents on the dollar. It’s not close.
- aj7 6y agoEspecially northern region US.
- franga2000 6y agoI love the idea of smart TVs, but every single implementation I've seen in the last few years has been utter garbage. Everything they do is one step forward and like 3-30 steps back. For example, I recently bought a low-end Samsung TV running Tizen, which meant I could return my set-top-box (ISP has a Tizen app), get rid of my barely-functioning miracast stick, bluetooth transmitter (native features) and media PC (apps for YouTube, Netflix and Spotify). But then, the thing has so many dumb design choices that it constantly makes me want to go back my horrible old setup. - Turning on the sleep timer takes 21 clicks and avg. 47 seconds if you know exactly how to do it (instead of having it in the quick menu). - I have to manually switch between the speakers and my surround system, which takes 6 or so clicks and 30 seconds (instead of just always outputting to toslink). - The TV can only boot to an input, not an app, so I have to manually open the TV app every time I turn it on. - Even though the remote has like a billion buttons, only 30% of them actually do things in any given context. - WHYYY is there a dedicated RokutenTV button on the remote that I can't remap?? - I can't use my phone to type text into text inputs (LGs can do this, badly) and why does it make me use arrow keys on an on-screen keyboard when I have a full number pad on the remote to do multi-tap/T9?? It looks like the entire industry seems to be entirely incompetent at creating software and is too stubborn to admit it and give us the tools to fix it for them.
- markatkinson 6y agoHaha I'm jealous. My tv can only boot to an app and not an input, but the operating system it came with is SO SLOW, that I have to use some kind of casting device.
- jiggawatts 6y agoI know why it's slow, how this happens: "How much RAM should we put in the TV boss?" "Well, what is the requirement?" "Right now, 1.5 GB." "Then put in 1.5 GB exactly!" "But we might need more after the next update!" "You need 1.5 GB, not one megabyte more, that's the requirement, so that's what you're putting in. End of discussion." ... six months later... "The next upgrade to the TV OS will need 2 GB of memory boss!" "Who cares? Just let it use the swap volume, the slowdown will encourage people to buy the next TV generation."
- reacharavindh 6y agoI have a LG “Smart TV” but never connected it to Wifi or Ethernet. I have an old Mac Mini that is hooked up to the TV via HDMI, and a cheap wireless keyboard and mouse makes it the perfect TV for me. Netflix on Safari :-) Whatever else I can access on the browser is now on big TV.
- fluffy87 6y agoIf you have an Apple TV, then whatever you can access on any Apple device through the browser is on your tv.
- stiray 6y agoI have bought Samsung QLED Q90T due to one reason only and that was picture quality. I though that i will have it banned on router and that is it. What a mistake, they forced me with nag screens to connect it to internet and drive trough bunch "I dont allow my data to be...". Anyway, wifi cant be completely disabled without calling their support and I bet they are using wifi direct. I have it blocked now on router (which is anyway configured that unknown macs cant connect) but I wonder what can a normal ordinary user do. Also you cant enter into factory menu without remote control with number buttons that is NOT shipped with TV. This is my last smart TV (and last product from Samsung, phones included). Monitors only. [1] https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/tv/disable-wireless-amp-bluetooth/td-p/625115 https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/tv/disable-wireless-amp-...
- deergomoo 6y ago> Also you cant enter into factory menu without remote control with number buttons that is NOT shipped with TV. That’s a very recent thing. I have a Q80R (last year’s model and one step down), and it came with two remotes: the app-centric Bluetooth one, and a “regular” one with numbers etc. That’s lame!
- noisy_boy 6y agoI am hoping for the glorious day when I'll see TVs side-by-side advertised for their "smartness" vs "dumb-doesnt-steal-your-data-or-show-ads" respectively.
- tigrezno 6y agoWhy not buy a decent computer screen, a mini itx PC and use a TV tuner card?? They come with an IR remote.
- andra_nl 6y agoThe article actually addresses this: Monitor displays are relatively darker than TV displays. This is because monitors are designed for people who sit up close. It may not be a problem when you’re watching a movie in a dark room. If you watch with the windows open during the day, however, your monitor won’t be able to produce enough brightness to give you pleasant viewing experience.
- zamalek 6y agoI routinely call them dumb TVs too, but they truly are the smartest choice. A TV costs $500, a Chromecast/Apple TV costs, what, $50? In addition to the price advantage of decoupling your TV from your "tuner," who is going to continue to support your device? Apple? Likely for perpetuity. Google? For some years at least. Samsung? Enjoy the only firmware that will ever ship for that device. Don't buy smart TVs, they are practically stupid.
- jeffreygoesto 6y agoCan I upvote this multiple times? I own a similar Microwave and would never want something else. Maybe we tech people lost contact with the real world some time ago.
- vgaldikas 6y agoWhat's the point of specifically looking for dumb TV? Is it because of tracking stuff? If so... Why just not connecting it to internet achieve same effect as having a dumb TV? Or is there something else? :)
- ece 6y agoIn case someone is wondering about the brand Sceptre, it's relatively old, and I've had Sceptre monitors (22", 24") for a few years now without problems. The colors and latency seem fine to me too, though I'm not a pro artist/gamer. Some of their smaller monitors are a great deal on Amazon with high refresh rates too, though I wish they had matte options. I didn't know they had TVs too.
- boiporitto 6y agoSceptre 65 Inche 4K UHD LED TV 3840x2160 MEMC 120 Ultra Thin HDMI 2.0 Upscaling U658CV-UMC, 2018
- Razengan 6y agoA good monitor + a computer (or console or even something like an Apple TV)
- lqet 6y agoReading this thread and realizing how difficult it seems to have become to buy such a "dumb" TV, I am extremely happy that I bought a cheap Samsung TV in 2016 which doesn't have any features except cheap build-in speakers, a classic TV tuner (which I don't use) and 2 HDMI inputs. It's connected to a Raspberry Pi running Kodi.
- sanj 6y agoHonest question: aren’t all TVs dumb if you don’t give them internet access?
- jokowueu 6y agoNEC P SERIES is the best dumb tv
- roody15 6y agoSceptre 65 inch 4k. Less than 400 dollars .. works great No smart features at all
- roody15 6y agoSceptre 65 inch 4k. Under 400$ .. no smart features at all . works great
- blunte 6y ago"Smart" TVs are a terrible terrible thing. Old people buy them, not knowing what they are getting into; and then we, HN-type people, end up forever being called to someone's house (family, whom you cannot really deny) to fix stupid things that really aren't the fault of the user. Also, when it takes 3 minutes to "boot up" your TV, that just sucks. I'm going to blame manufacturers for taking an essentially saturated market and adding useless crap (and marketing it) to justify someone needing to buy a new TV. Indeed there are some visual improvements occasionally, but the benefits of those improvements are often diminished based on many factors (vision of viewer, room lighting/light interference, etc.). Choice is nice, and competition is nice. But useless or likely-to-never-be-wanted-or-used features are just a waste of money, peoples' time, and environmental resources (the making of new TV, the discarding of old).
- JoshTko 6y agoYou can setup an lG oled tv such as the C9 without inputting any wifi info and it works fine as a dumb TV.
- 3guk 6y agoI've mentioned it on a few of the other recent threads about this topic but, for those who use piHole or other network wide ad blocking, I've compiled a list of servers to block: https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Samsung_Telemetry_Servers https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Samsung_Telemetry_Servers For sure it's a game of cat and mouse, I guess the added revenue stream of direct to consumer advertising is too hard to ignore for most manufacturers and the demand from consumers for a decent dumb TV isn't high enough to justify a production run.
- tupputuppu 6y agoNone of these are for sales in Europe, or more specifically in Nordics.
- a5withtrrs 6y agoI'd love it if there were recommendations for TV's available in other countries. It looks like the recommended TVs (Sceptre branded) are only available in the US. If anyone has any recommendations for Australian equivalents I'd love to know!
- jasonv 6y agoMicrowave beeping sounds. I’d like a microwave that sounds good. Or is quiet.
- debbiedowner 6y agoCan't you just avoid the smart features by plugging in a laptop and playing streaming services from there?
- justinlloyd 6y agoThat website only seems to list two TV's (with Amazon Affiliate links) and I conjecture it was written by an outsourced writer who has never owned either of the TVs. Sceptre, from my understanding, is an LG or Samsung panel with off-brand electronics. But I could well be wrong on that point. I read a write-up on the company a year or two ago. If you are looking for a dumb TV, in any size, with any combination of features, or "not so smart" TV that has Android and a few other features, there are two sources to consider. The first is Aliexpress. Many of the manufacturers sell their TVs directly on to eBay for a small markup. You will find dumb TVs or semi-smart TVs without all the nonsense, and lots of features, for very reasonable rates. The problem will be the warranty, quality and life cycle. Spare parts are abundant and cheap, so long as your panel is good (and you can even replace that), then most repair jobs are "swap out this board for that board." If you can absorb that risk, many people who buy at Best Buy or other big box store want cheap price and convenience and low-risk, then this is a great option. If you have seen something at a trade-show (flexible TV, 120 inch TV, transparent TV, double-sided TV), you will find an Aliexpress vendor that has that exact model for around 20% to 40% of the price of the manufacturer. They are buying the exact same panels, the exact same electronics, and putting these TVs together in a generic, non-branded plastic case. Sometimes the bezels are a little larger. Sometimes the remote is a piece of junk. I have a 55" dumb TV on my wall that runs a Linux based OS with SSH access that can also run Android apps. I don't want regular TV on it. But I can pipe video games to it, let me watch a Youtube tutorial, have a Google Meetup for work, or a bunch of other tasks that don't require a computer, and the TV leaks no data outside of the network. Cost was around $300 several years ago. In storage, for my wife's conference business, we have two, dual-sided 60" TVs with 20 point multi-touch that run a weird flavour of Android in a dual-screen setup. Cost per device a few years back was something like $450. We're considering a 4K 90" wallpaper TV with 20-point touch to mount on our dining room wall to replace our aging kitchen computer. I expect to pay about $2,500 for it. The reason it is under consideration because we're also contemplating a 55" version that has the hardened glass overlay. I would expect to pay under $600 for that. I've also contemplated replacing the digital ceiling in my wife's studio with cheap 4K screens from Aliexpress. But I am procrastinating on that as I don't want to have to re-render all the art. If you want quality with a long warranty, service & repairs, and can afford a little more, every major manufacturer out there builds a hospitality line of their product. LG has an amazing line-up of dumb TVs or semi-smart TVs that sport all of the normal input features, often with LAN control, sometimes with higher brightness or dynamic ranges, and available at any size you desire, and without any of the network leakage you expect because hospitality businesses don't like that kind of shit. You can get a 55" 4K LG commercial display TV for around $700 brand new. For a while I had a 55" LG 4K TV with 20-point multi-touch and variable viewing angle overlay in portrait orientation at my desk. I used to project 3D scenes on to it (when I wasn't using it for work) of rainy or snowy landscapes because it would trick your brain in to thinking it was an actual window. It was as close as you could get to Portal technology for under $1,500.
- gautamnarula 6y agoI have the Sceptre 65" "dumb" TV recommended in this article and have been really happy with it. I also got it on sale last year so paid only ~$350 for it-- wait until Black Friday/Cyber Monday if you're looking to get one. I got a Roku to stream with and have been pretty happy. Meanwhile my family members all have Smart TVs, and have dealt with terrible firmware that makes streaming a real pain and slow boot/startup times, not being able to stream Disney+ for a while because the manufacturer wouldn't update their firmware for a long time, of course the general privacy/spyware, and I think even ads pushed through onto their TVs. I hope dumb TVs continue, otherwise I fear I'll be forced to "upgrade" to a Smart TV once this one needs to be replaced.
- compsciphd 6y ago"Does a great dumb TV exist in 2020?" no. None of the TVs with the best picture quality are dumb. It's a shame, but its the truth. so it really depends what you want, but if getting the best bang for the buck picture quality (highest nits, highest contrast, best color accuracy in SDR and HDR), you are going to be limited to smart TVs. If all you care about is 1080p in SDR, you can get a dumb TV that is competitive, but once in the 4k/HDR world they just don't exist. you're limited to samsung, lg, sony, panasonic at the top end, and even good bang for buck manufacturers like tcl, hisense and vizio are all just shipping smart features on their highest PQ TVs.
- neop1x 6y agoWe have a big dumb LG 60PB560V 60" plasma TV connected to a dedicated x86 Arch Linux box with an AMD GPU. It's just awesome experience. Kodi, TVHeadend, MumuDVB. If I were to buy a new TV again, I would definitely want an OLED one for the real black and high contrast, being able to light individual pixels. QLED has more effective backlight tech but it is still LED. Mini-LED is better but nothing beats OLED or plasma. If there were no dumb OLEDs then I would buy a smart one and just wouldn't connect it to the internet. And if it wouldn't work without the internet I would wait till some manufacturer realises there really are people who don't want to connect the TV to the internet.
- nuker 6y agoTFA is filled with Amazon affiliate links. To the brim.
- charliebrownau 6y agoLCD Monitor with VGA + Displayport + HDMI
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- cgrealy 6y agoWhat I want from a TV is a good screen. That's it. It's a big monitor optimised for video. The thing that really gets me is why companies bother putting speakers in high end TVs. The kind of person that is going to drop several thousand on a TV will have a separate speaker system.
- bni 6y agoThey have to put a small speaker inside just for testing basically. Otherwise they will get tons of RMA for "there being no sound".
- pulse7 6y agoJust buy a smart TV and make it dumb by not connecting it to the internet.
- tus88 6y agoDoesn't everyone have a nvidia shield by now?
- betimsl 6y agoAny TV really...just don't connect it to the internet :)
- dirtnugget 6y agoAny alternatives for the european market? I don't see Sceptre being sold anywhere around (Germany)
- tannhaeuser 6y agoFWIW, TechniSat in Germany still produces dumb smart TVs with recording but without the data grabbing.
- allard 6y agoWhat's dumb about smart teevees? The essential part has one lifecycle and the smarts have another. Better have the smarts outboard so they can be replaced when they're obsolete. Imagine having to toss your car when it needs new tires.