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There is a crossfit gym that I pass by every morning on the way to work. It is full, and never stopped during this pandemic. Even at 7AM, it is full of patrons.

There is a crossfit gym that I pass by every morning on the way to work. It is full, and never stopped during this pandemic. Even at 7AM, it is full of patrons. I would call the "proper authorities", but since there is a State Police car parked outside every morning, and he is in there working out, just like before the pandemic, I doubt calling anyone would do anything. Adding to the post, I read it earlier... it is really strange that people feel they have to go work out in groups. Or get together, or go to bars. I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain.

lolbrels 6y ago
If they are taking required precautions what is the problem? They've done this at my gym and I have continued to go throughout the "pandemic". Easy to sit on your high horse here and state your disbelief and amazement that people want to continue living their lives, why not just leave them alone? You choose how to live your life and we will choose ours. Thanks.
sushshshsh 6y ago
That's because the landlord still expects rent to be due.
- bityard 6y ago
  That's because the bank still expects the mortgage to be paid.
  - tom_ 6y ago
    Strikes me the gym and the bank could probably come to some kind of arrangement?
    - taxidump 6y ago
      I think the Landlord would feel left out if so.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - groundfallbroke 6y ago
    That’s because pensioners and investors expect to be paid their due.
  - TheNorthman 6y ago
    If this was true, we'd see landlords with paid-off mortgages waiving the rent. Since we don't see this on any major scale, we can only conclude that mortgages are inconsequential to landlords demanding rent-payments.
    - caseysoftware 6y ago
      A mortgage is not the only cost of owning a property. Taxes are a third of my mortgage payment every month. Other than the IRS delaying tax day by 3 months, I haven't seen any delay or waivers of taxes due. In addition, there's basic upkeep and maintenance that you're required to perform to keep a building insured, let alone to make it re-openable at some point.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- compscistd 6y ago
  I believe the parent comment isn't bemoaning the business practices of these landlords but instead addressing the unethical behavior of its patrons.
  - showdeadtest 6y ago
    I think few are willing to sustain a COVID-free lifestyle indefinitely. Using induction some people probably conclude that they might as well not bother. I see the reasoning and don’t think the ethics of our pandemic behaviors have been fully discussed.
  - foolinaround 6y ago
    > the unethical behavior of its patrons the patrons apparently don't believe that their behavior is unethical, and in fact, think that the dictates of their rules are unethical, and potentially illegal too.
    - squidlogic 6y ago
      This is the logic: it's ok to riot in the streets, but going to the gym is considered unethical.
      - throw_away_321 6y ago
        that's nobody's logic. the logic is: protests are outdoors. gyms are indoors. is it so hard for you? lol
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  A lot of landlords accept that their tenants can't pay rent for now. It's not like there are alternative tenants who can pay around.
AWildC182 6y ago
The group thing is real. Some people just really need the motivation from others being present or their perceived judgement to show up regularly. It's not a failing on their part, whatever gets you to the gym and keeps you going, but maybe work on your individual workouts during the pandemic?
honkycat 6y ago
Introverts vs extroverts. Humans are social animals. Socialization is a basic human need. It is much harder for some people to stay inside and not socialize than others. We are now on month 7 of being told to not socialize or see or do anything. I continue to obey the orders, but I totally get why some people are starting to crack.
- HenryKissinger 6y ago
  > Socialization is a basic human need.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > We are now on month 7 of being told to not socialize... "Keep your distance, wear a mask, and stick to small groups" is not the same as "do not socialize".
  - at-fates-hands 6y ago
    Considering most states have been in full on shelter in place lock down mode, there aren't many places people can socialize anyways. All of the normal places where you see people socialize have bee closed or went out business. Restaurants, bars, night clubs, sporting events, live music (festivals and stadiums) and many, many others. It would be one thing to conform to what your saying, but its become hard if not impossible to find safe places where people CAN socialize, so they take what they get regardless of the risks to them or others.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      Parks? Backyards? A walk around the neighborhood? Outdoor dining? If you can't socialize outside a bar, that's on you.
      - jlg23 6y ago
        In a lot of urban environments access to the obvious outdoor alternatives is pretty limited.
ehnto 6y ago
Let me preface: I've abstained from going to the gym since we went into lockdown, and even now that we are out of it here. I am looking into equipment at home, and I can at least keep my fitness, if not my strength, by going mountain biking. That said, there are many types of training you can't do without the right equipment, so it's at least a bit more than just wanting to be with others. Strength training/powerlifting/olympic lifting all come to mind. It's often really difficult to keep a rack, barbell and hundreds of kilos of weight at home, and obviously not something people had just lying around in case of an emergency. There is certainly a social aspect to it as well, I love training with a couple of friends, the atmosphere can't be replicated at home. But like I said, I've abstained, and I would have been hopeful others would have to.
- polmuz 6y ago
  Kettlebells are doing the trick for me, you can start with just one.
  - hoka-one-one 6y ago
    post body
  - shpongled 6y ago
    Where's my 405lb kettlebell for deadlifts?
    - hoka-one-one 6y ago
      he wasn't talking about deadlifts, he was talking about the Trick
  - ehnto 6y ago
    Kettlebells can get you a long way for sure, but are not really suitable for the bigger lifts from disciplines like powerlifting and olympic lifting. The biggest kettlebell I can find online is 92kg, even with one in each hand that's not enough for many. Part of the benefit of plates and barbells is you load them up 20/25kg at a timel, two 92kg kettle bells would be cumbersome to get into position!
polote 6y ago
> I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. Maybe because nobody successfully proved to these people (me included) that this sacrifice is useful. You can't tell to people, you have no risk of dying (0.5% death rate for population, much much lower for healthy and young people), people who are at risk of dying can protect themselves even around sick people (wearing a mask, staying at home, washing hands, ...) so this is not your fault if they catch it but you need to stop living your life. That can't work. And above all, what is the long term strategy, we stop everything for the rest of our lives ? (a vaccine doesn't always work, example the flu vaccine, which works approximately). It is not that people don't want to sacrifice, it is just that scarifying is the worst solution for everyone
- Ascetik 6y ago
  I agree, the top poster is essentially advocating for complete and total tyranny of the Communist order. Telling on people who don't necessarily agree with the official narrative, it's essentially thought policing. Edit: If you don't like what I said then go work for Xi Jinping. It's no secret a lot of people in tech are crypto or full-blown Communists. Telling on people for wanting to get on with their lives is nothing short of Commissar tactics.
- esalman 6y ago
  US didn't have a federal strategy to deal with the pandemic. They shot at their own foot and didn't give themselves a chance to be successful. The rest of the (developed, and many underdeveloped) world dealt with it and are moving on. I'm watching Champions league finals on TV and Wuhan pool party clips on twitter, thinking wtf went wrong here.
  - polote 6y ago
    > The rest of the (developed, and many underdeveloped) world dealt with it and are moving on. I'm not really sure on that, lets take greece, which was praised for their strategy (I was in greece during the lockdown). They didnt have a strategy, they just locked down before there was an outbreak and blocked flights, so no spread. Now they have an outbreak because they stopped all there restrictions. They were just lucky Look at New Zealand, their strategy is to prevent anyone to enter the country with covid, well that works as long as not a log of people fly to NZ. Now that flights have restarted, they have like 3 cases so they lockdown the entire city, well, doesnt seem very smart in my opinion. The only countries which are doing well, are the Asian countries, China (can't really trust their figure), Taiwan, south korea same as NZ, but restricting all freedom of citizens. The smartest country of all, is Sweden, never locked down, explained to citizen the situation. Managed to get the situation under control without any lockdown, and probably will reach herd immunity before anyone else. Time will tell this is too soon to judge, but they seem well positioned for winning
eanzenberg 6y ago
>>>I would call the "proper authorities" Why? What harm is going on here? If you don’t like it, don’t participate. Leave us alone, narc.
- ramoz 6y ago
  The non-deplorables hold themselves to high standards.
  - eanzenberg 6y ago
    I get the virtue signaling hoard, but it has no effect on outcome.
- mitjak 6y ago
  higher chance of infection. you don't live in a vacuum.
- txru 6y ago
  Nobody particularly cares about people doing high-contagion activities like going to a gym, for the people in the gym themselves, the ethical problem is that they're very few degrees of separation away from people who can't afford to be exposed. Even if you drive by and mind your own business, that gym almost certainly has a blast radius of unnecessary infections and deaths.
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  The problem is, of course, that those same people in the gym—an environment which is naturally quite conducive to spreading infections—later go to their workplace, or their doctor, or their public transport, or a bar, and back to the gym. By doing that, they can carry an infection around to others, even if they aren’t themselves symptomatic. This contributes to the general public health problem, increasing the infection rate among the population and meaning more people get sick or die. This applies whether they were in the gym, or just had the misfortune of interacting with someone who had been. I don’t know who initially said it, but… I don’t know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.
ISL 6y ago
Depending on the state, calling sufficiently-far up the chain of command may do something. The officer's immediate superior may be inclined to cut the officer some slack, but the buck stops with the person charged with ensuring that the pandemic is effectively managed. The buck stops with all of us. We either beat this thing together or it keeps killing our relatives. Those are the only options. Pick one.
Nasrudith 6y ago
> I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. That seems to be a very widespread societal issue. Feedback and gratification are very effective conditioning loops and it applies to basically everything directly socially linked. Advertising, education, law enforcement. Everything which shapes anothe life whether done knowing or unknowingly and can come to bite the conditioner one way or another. Like the "tiger mom nightmare" case of forcing a son through med school only for him to show it to his mom say "There I am done it, happy now?" and working in a convenience store because of the sheer weight of negative conditioned meant that poverty was preferrable to six figure income and working days calling back decades of resentment. Defying it successfully is a way to make or save money and everyone hates it essentially is rare and doing so is an outright resentment magnet. The majority will dislike anyone who points it out as a potential component to a solution. It gets one outright dehumanized even for optimizations innocous as meal prepping the same balanced and cheap meal daily to save up for something.
dredmorbius 6y ago
Proper authorities, photo of car, and a set of local news organisations, plus a few tweets and your state reps, might get some attention. Play interests off each other.
- rs999gti 6y ago
  > Proper authorities, photo of car, and a set of local news organisations, plus a few tweets and your state reps, might get some attention. > Play interests off each other. Papers please!
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - throw_away_321 6y ago
    requiring a business to abide by local laws isn't the same as randomly requesting identifying papers for no reason, cut the hyperbole. i suppose you freak out when the health department does restaurant inspections too? "it's my right to eat as much rat poop as i want!"
e12e 6y ago
> it is really strange that people feel they have to (...) get together (...) > I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. These are two related issues, but not the same. Before we started (half) using the office again - I'd not see anyone outside of buying groceries. For approximately 3 months straight. It's not healthy, and I absolutely can see others having even more trouble with that than I did. It is natural even introverts need to socialize. That said, I'm surprised there seem to be less focus on organizing in smaller, regular groups. It's likely better for preventing spread if people met up in the same group of 5 to 10 people, rather than gathering indoors - especially as it now seems quite likely covid-19 is airborne. So yes, some personal sacrifice should be expected - but I would be careful dismissing the need for people to see other people, in person. We are social animals.
mancerayder 6y ago
They work out in groups because they congregate in places with pull-up bars, bumper plates, barbells, medicine balls and so forth. Otherwise only those with houses and garages get to work out. Not justifying it, I'm just jealous because my bedroom has turned into a gym and it sucks.
nradov 6y ago
What specific long-term gain will we achieve with that short-term sacrifice? Sure we can keep most gyms closed for several more months, and that might marginally reduce the spread of the virus for a while. But the virus is now endemic and will be with us essentially forever. We have to reopen gyms eventually, and then we'll be right back where we started. As long as the curve has been flattened sufficiently and the healthcare system isn't overwhelmed then what are we really accomplishing by waiting?
- Raidion 6y ago
  I think you answered your own question: "As long as the curve has been flattened sufficiently and the healthcare system isn't overwhelmed" The difference between "overwhelmed" and "not overwhelmed" is pretty subtle. You can measure this in ICU beds and hospital capacity, but that's not sustainable. You have to start asking "How many hours are health care workers working?". You also have to ask, if we did have any setbacks/outbreaks, what buffer do we have in terms of people and PPE availability? You can't run the system at the red line, it's not sustainable. And any distance between our current capactity and that red line is somewhat open to interpretation, but I bet that distance feels a lot smaller for our EMTs and Doctors than it does for the average person on HN.
  - nradov 6y ago
    The healthcare system isn't running at the red line. Almost all hospitals have adequate capacity. Most healthcare providers are still working shorter than normal hours. So your concerns are unfounded.
    - arkh 6y ago
      And let's not forget all the people who decided to postpone care during COVID: most of them will have worsened conditions once they get to some hospital. The fearmongering may add a lot of avoidable deaths: cardiac problems not taking seriously, cancer found too late etc. In April doctors were pondering why there was 40% to 60% heart attack patients. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/well/live/coronavirus-doctors-hospitals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/well/live/coronavirus-doc...
hoorayimhelping 6y ago
>I would call the "proper authorities" What would you tell the authorities? That there are people in a gym and that they need to be arrested? What outcome would you hope to achieve by tattling on them?
- tdeck 6y ago
  Most likely the owner of the gym would receive a fine until they closed it down.
claydavisss 6y ago
Why do you think the sacrifice is "short term"? If covid mutates and there is no vaccine, this may be your new world.
mancerayder 6y ago
How short term is short term? It's been six months with no end in sight. If you're a fitness enthusiast living in an apartment, you're screwed. All well and good if you've never had any interest in a gym, but if it's one of your primary hobbies to maintain mental health, then it's not a 'those people' thing. And again I speak as someone trying to replicate a gym in his apartment and getting exasperated. People with houses and garages shouldn't be as critical, given their comparative privilege here.
- osn9363739 6y ago
  Living in an apartment is what has fucked me over. I like living in a small space. But that was fine when everything I did was outside that space - Gym/Pool/Sports/Restaurants. Swimming is my thing. I don't know why but it makes me feel normal like no other exercise can. but the pools have been closed for months now here in Melbourne (excluding a couple of weeks in the middle there). Now I'm just depressed, stuck in isolation, borders are closed and can't visit my friends or family. Everyone saying this shit is easy for introverts have no idea. They seem to think introverts don't do anything or never used to leave their house? Talking to a therapist maybe helps but as other people have said, not knowing if there is any end in sight is what sucks. Not sure why I'm venting to you.
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    I understand. I think you need to sub in other activities. This could be something like calisthenics if you want something more technical. There's a German online group called Calimove that have an "At home" workout and also some Calisthenics (starting from basics) levels workouts if you want that. There's some free Youtube stuff, and then there's some paid courses that give exact workouts. If something more basic is what you're after, biking or running. It's a time of adaptation, and it sucks for sure but it's simply Necessary. If I told you what I'm doing instead of olympic weightlifting you would laugh. However it really helps reduce that exact angst you're describing (which I'm very familiar with as well). I consider physical exercise to be as critical to me as everything else, and absolutely essential for my mental health. I happen to be an introvert as well and feel similarly, btw.
flyGuyOnTheSly 6y ago
>it is really strange that people feel they have to go work out in groups. Or get together, or go to bars. We're not all satiated simply by popping pills and plugging into the cloud or whatever it is you do with your free time. Most humans have a strong need for social interaction. What is the point of preserving life if nobody is allowed to live theirs?
dvcrn 6y ago
I am one of those people that goes to a small gym near my apartment daily, even in the current times. The gym isn't very full, maybe a total of 4-5 people when I'm there (I picked my time based on how full it is). Everyone is obligated to wear a mask, there are disinfection sprays and one-time-use wipes that we have to use after finishing with a machine. Some people are also disinfecting equipment before they use it. The gym has the windows open and added disinfection diffuser thingies into each corner. The reason for why I take the risk and keep go is pretty simple: Mental health. When we had a lockdown, gyms closed and I was confined to my apartment 24/7 I felt horrible. Days just blurred into each other, I gained weight, my motivation to do anything dropped. My life was just work and I hated it. Of course I bought a set of dumbbells (which were also ridiculously expensive because everyone had the same idea) and tried running but that only gets you so far. I can't get more equipment at home because my apartment is like 35sqm When the gyms reopned I started going again and kept my guard up: Disinfect everything, don't be near other people, be careful when I take my mask off, wash my hands before I touch anything after I finish. Since then I started feeling much better. Even if I don't do anything else like meeting friends, going out for drinks, or if my workday happened to be shitty, I have something that makes me think more about myself and my health. Sports has incredible benefits on mood, sleep and mental health, hence why I take the risk. For all we know, this pandemic can continue for a very long time. I'm not saying we should all forget the virus and do what we did before, but we should still try to find a somewhat healthy day-cycle that doesn't knock us in lockdown depression. Going to a small, empty gym while keeping my guard up is my calculated risk of "with corona".
konjin 6y ago
> I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. The virus kills old people. Yes, it is very sentimental to let your grandmother die. But the savings in long term care alone will more than pay for any emotional distress you have in the short term.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
notyourwork 6y ago
> Adding to the post, I read it earlier... it is really strange that people feel they have to go work out in groups. Or get together, or go to bars. I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. When problems are on this massive of a scale it is easy for individuals to think "cannot be me". Reality is that it is all of us.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
urza 6y ago
>I would call the "proper authorities" You must be a really nice person.

lolbrels 6y ago

If they are taking required precautions what is the problem? They've done this at my gym and I have continued to go throughout the "pandemic". Easy to sit on your high horse here and state your disbelief and amazement that people want to continue living their lives, why not just leave them alone? You choose how to live your life and we will choose ours. Thanks.

sushshshsh 6y ago

That's because the landlord still expects rent to be due.

bityard 6y ago
That's because the bank still expects the mortgage to be paid.
- tom_ 6y ago
  Strikes me the gym and the bank could probably come to some kind of arrangement?
  - taxidump 6y ago
    I think the Landlord would feel left out if so.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- groundfallbroke 6y ago
  That’s because pensioners and investors expect to be paid their due.
- TheNorthman 6y ago
  If this was true, we'd see landlords with paid-off mortgages waiving the rent. Since we don't see this on any major scale, we can only conclude that mortgages are inconsequential to landlords demanding rent-payments.
  - caseysoftware 6y ago
    A mortgage is not the only cost of owning a property. Taxes are a third of my mortgage payment every month. Other than the IRS delaying tax day by 3 months, I haven't seen any delay or waivers of taxes due. In addition, there's basic upkeep and maintenance that you're required to perform to keep a building insured, let alone to make it re-openable at some point.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
compscistd 6y ago
I believe the parent comment isn't bemoaning the business practices of these landlords but instead addressing the unethical behavior of its patrons.
- showdeadtest 6y ago
  I think few are willing to sustain a COVID-free lifestyle indefinitely. Using induction some people probably conclude that they might as well not bother. I see the reasoning and don’t think the ethics of our pandemic behaviors have been fully discussed.
- foolinaround 6y ago
  > the unethical behavior of its patrons the patrons apparently don't believe that their behavior is unethical, and in fact, think that the dictates of their rules are unethical, and potentially illegal too.
  - squidlogic 6y ago
    This is the logic: it's ok to riot in the streets, but going to the gym is considered unethical.
    - throw_away_321 6y ago
      that's nobody's logic. the logic is: protests are outdoors. gyms are indoors. is it so hard for you? lol
BurningFrog 6y ago
A lot of landlords accept that their tenants can't pay rent for now. It's not like there are alternative tenants who can pay around.

AWildC182 6y ago

The group thing is real. Some people just really need the motivation from others being present or their perceived judgement to show up regularly. It's not a failing on their part, whatever gets you to the gym and keeps you going, but maybe work on your individual workouts during the pandemic?

honkycat 6y ago

Introverts vs extroverts. Humans are social animals. Socialization is a basic human need. It is much harder for some people to stay inside and not socialize than others. We are now on month 7 of being told to not socialize or see or do anything. I continue to obey the orders, but I totally get why some people are starting to crack.

HenryKissinger 6y ago
> Socialization is a basic human need.
ceejayoz 6y ago
> We are now on month 7 of being told to not socialize... "Keep your distance, wear a mask, and stick to small groups" is not the same as "do not socialize".
- at-fates-hands 6y ago
  Considering most states have been in full on shelter in place lock down mode, there aren't many places people can socialize anyways. All of the normal places where you see people socialize have bee closed or went out business. Restaurants, bars, night clubs, sporting events, live music (festivals and stadiums) and many, many others. It would be one thing to conform to what your saying, but its become hard if not impossible to find safe places where people CAN socialize, so they take what they get regardless of the risks to them or others.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Parks? Backyards? A walk around the neighborhood? Outdoor dining? If you can't socialize outside a bar, that's on you.
    - jlg23 6y ago
      In a lot of urban environments access to the obvious outdoor alternatives is pretty limited.

ehnto 6y ago

Let me preface: I've abstained from going to the gym since we went into lockdown, and even now that we are out of it here. I am looking into equipment at home, and I can at least keep my fitness, if not my strength, by going mountain biking. That said, there are many types of training you can't do without the right equipment, so it's at least a bit more than just wanting to be with others. Strength training/powerlifting/olympic lifting all come to mind. It's often really difficult to keep a rack, barbell and hundreds of kilos of weight at home, and obviously not something people had just lying around in case of an emergency. There is certainly a social aspect to it as well, I love training with a couple of friends, the atmosphere can't be replicated at home. But like I said, I've abstained, and I would have been hopeful others would have to.

polmuz 6y ago
Kettlebells are doing the trick for me, you can start with just one.
- hoka-one-one 6y ago
  post body
- shpongled 6y ago
  Where's my 405lb kettlebell for deadlifts?
  - hoka-one-one 6y ago
    he wasn't talking about deadlifts, he was talking about the Trick
- ehnto 6y ago
  Kettlebells can get you a long way for sure, but are not really suitable for the bigger lifts from disciplines like powerlifting and olympic lifting. The biggest kettlebell I can find online is 92kg, even with one in each hand that's not enough for many. Part of the benefit of plates and barbells is you load them up 20/25kg at a timel, two 92kg kettle bells would be cumbersome to get into position!

polote 6y ago

> I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. Maybe because nobody successfully proved to these people (me included) that this sacrifice is useful. You can't tell to people, you have no risk of dying (0.5% death rate for population, much much lower for healthy and young people), people who are at risk of dying can protect themselves even around sick people (wearing a mask, staying at home, washing hands, ...) so this is not your fault if they catch it but you need to stop living your life. That can't work. And above all, what is the long term strategy, we stop everything for the rest of our lives ? (a vaccine doesn't always work, example the flu vaccine, which works approximately). It is not that people don't want to sacrifice, it is just that scarifying is the worst solution for everyone

Ascetik 6y ago
I agree, the top poster is essentially advocating for complete and total tyranny of the Communist order. Telling on people who don't necessarily agree with the official narrative, it's essentially thought policing. Edit: If you don't like what I said then go work for Xi Jinping. It's no secret a lot of people in tech are crypto or full-blown Communists. Telling on people for wanting to get on with their lives is nothing short of Commissar tactics.
esalman 6y ago
US didn't have a federal strategy to deal with the pandemic. They shot at their own foot and didn't give themselves a chance to be successful. The rest of the (developed, and many underdeveloped) world dealt with it and are moving on. I'm watching Champions league finals on TV and Wuhan pool party clips on twitter, thinking wtf went wrong here.
- polote 6y ago
  > The rest of the (developed, and many underdeveloped) world dealt with it and are moving on. I'm not really sure on that, lets take greece, which was praised for their strategy (I was in greece during the lockdown). They didnt have a strategy, they just locked down before there was an outbreak and blocked flights, so no spread. Now they have an outbreak because they stopped all there restrictions. They were just lucky Look at New Zealand, their strategy is to prevent anyone to enter the country with covid, well that works as long as not a log of people fly to NZ. Now that flights have restarted, they have like 3 cases so they lockdown the entire city, well, doesnt seem very smart in my opinion. The only countries which are doing well, are the Asian countries, China (can't really trust their figure), Taiwan, south korea same as NZ, but restricting all freedom of citizens. The smartest country of all, is Sweden, never locked down, explained to citizen the situation. Managed to get the situation under control without any lockdown, and probably will reach herd immunity before anyone else. Time will tell this is too soon to judge, but they seem well positioned for winning

eanzenberg 6y ago

>>>I would call the "proper authorities" Why? What harm is going on here? If you don’t like it, don’t participate. Leave us alone, narc.

ramoz 6y ago
The non-deplorables hold themselves to high standards.
- eanzenberg 6y ago
  I get the virtue signaling hoard, but it has no effect on outcome.
mitjak 6y ago
higher chance of infection. you don't live in a vacuum.
txru 6y ago
Nobody particularly cares about people doing high-contagion activities like going to a gym, for the people in the gym themselves, the ethical problem is that they're very few degrees of separation away from people who can't afford to be exposed. Even if you drive by and mind your own business, that gym almost certainly has a blast radius of unnecessary infections and deaths.
matthewmacleod 6y ago
The problem is, of course, that those same people in the gym—an environment which is naturally quite conducive to spreading infections—later go to their workplace, or their doctor, or their public transport, or a bar, and back to the gym. By doing that, they can carry an infection around to others, even if they aren’t themselves symptomatic. This contributes to the general public health problem, increasing the infection rate among the population and meaning more people get sick or die. This applies whether they were in the gym, or just had the misfortune of interacting with someone who had been. I don’t know who initially said it, but… I don’t know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.

ISL 6y ago

Depending on the state, calling sufficiently-far up the chain of command may do something. The officer's immediate superior may be inclined to cut the officer some slack, but the buck stops with the person charged with ensuring that the pandemic is effectively managed. The buck stops with all of us. We either beat this thing together or it keeps killing our relatives. Those are the only options. Pick one.

Nasrudith 6y ago

> I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. That seems to be a very widespread societal issue. Feedback and gratification are very effective conditioning loops and it applies to basically everything directly socially linked. Advertising, education, law enforcement. Everything which shapes anothe life whether done knowing or unknowingly and can come to bite the conditioner one way or another. Like the "tiger mom nightmare" case of forcing a son through med school only for him to show it to his mom say "There I am done it, happy now?" and working in a convenience store because of the sheer weight of negative conditioned meant that poverty was preferrable to six figure income and working days calling back decades of resentment. Defying it successfully is a way to make or save money and everyone hates it essentially is rare and doing so is an outright resentment magnet. The majority will dislike anyone who points it out as a potential component to a solution. It gets one outright dehumanized even for optimizations innocous as meal prepping the same balanced and cheap meal daily to save up for something.

dredmorbius 6y ago

Proper authorities, photo of car, and a set of local news organisations, plus a few tweets and your state reps, might get some attention. Play interests off each other.

rs999gti 6y ago
> Proper authorities, photo of car, and a set of local news organisations, plus a few tweets and your state reps, might get some attention. > Play interests off each other. Papers please!
- deleted 6y ago
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- throw_away_321 6y ago
  requiring a business to abide by local laws isn't the same as randomly requesting identifying papers for no reason, cut the hyperbole. i suppose you freak out when the health department does restaurant inspections too? "it's my right to eat as much rat poop as i want!"

e12e 6y ago

> it is really strange that people feel they have to (...) get together (...) > I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. These are two related issues, but not the same. Before we started (half) using the office again - I'd not see anyone outside of buying groceries. For approximately 3 months straight. It's not healthy, and I absolutely can see others having even more trouble with that than I did. It is natural even introverts need to socialize. That said, I'm surprised there seem to be less focus on organizing in smaller, regular groups. It's likely better for preventing spread if people met up in the same group of 5 to 10 people, rather than gathering indoors - especially as it now seems quite likely covid-19 is airborne. So yes, some personal sacrifice should be expected - but I would be careful dismissing the need for people to see other people, in person. We are social animals.

mancerayder 6y ago

They work out in groups because they congregate in places with pull-up bars, bumper plates, barbells, medicine balls and so forth. Otherwise only those with houses and garages get to work out. Not justifying it, I'm just jealous because my bedroom has turned into a gym and it sucks.

nradov 6y ago

What specific long-term gain will we achieve with that short-term sacrifice? Sure we can keep most gyms closed for several more months, and that might marginally reduce the spread of the virus for a while. But the virus is now endemic and will be with us essentially forever. We have to reopen gyms eventually, and then we'll be right back where we started. As long as the curve has been flattened sufficiently and the healthcare system isn't overwhelmed then what are we really accomplishing by waiting?

Raidion 6y ago
I think you answered your own question: "As long as the curve has been flattened sufficiently and the healthcare system isn't overwhelmed" The difference between "overwhelmed" and "not overwhelmed" is pretty subtle. You can measure this in ICU beds and hospital capacity, but that's not sustainable. You have to start asking "How many hours are health care workers working?". You also have to ask, if we did have any setbacks/outbreaks, what buffer do we have in terms of people and PPE availability? You can't run the system at the red line, it's not sustainable. And any distance between our current capactity and that red line is somewhat open to interpretation, but I bet that distance feels a lot smaller for our EMTs and Doctors than it does for the average person on HN.
- nradov 6y ago
  The healthcare system isn't running at the red line. Almost all hospitals have adequate capacity. Most healthcare providers are still working shorter than normal hours. So your concerns are unfounded.
  - arkh 6y ago
    And let's not forget all the people who decided to postpone care during COVID: most of them will have worsened conditions once they get to some hospital. The fearmongering may add a lot of avoidable deaths: cardiac problems not taking seriously, cancer found too late etc. In April doctors were pondering why there was 40% to 60% heart attack patients. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/well/live/coronavirus-doctors-hospitals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/well/live/coronavirus-doc...

hoorayimhelping 6y ago

>I would call the "proper authorities" What would you tell the authorities? That there are people in a gym and that they need to be arrested? What outcome would you hope to achieve by tattling on them?

tdeck 6y ago
Most likely the owner of the gym would receive a fine until they closed it down.

claydavisss 6y ago

Why do you think the sacrifice is "short term"? If covid mutates and there is no vaccine, this may be your new world.

mancerayder 6y ago

How short term is short term? It's been six months with no end in sight. If you're a fitness enthusiast living in an apartment, you're screwed. All well and good if you've never had any interest in a gym, but if it's one of your primary hobbies to maintain mental health, then it's not a 'those people' thing. And again I speak as someone trying to replicate a gym in his apartment and getting exasperated. People with houses and garages shouldn't be as critical, given their comparative privilege here.

osn9363739 6y ago
Living in an apartment is what has fucked me over. I like living in a small space. But that was fine when everything I did was outside that space - Gym/Pool/Sports/Restaurants. Swimming is my thing. I don't know why but it makes me feel normal like no other exercise can. but the pools have been closed for months now here in Melbourne (excluding a couple of weeks in the middle there). Now I'm just depressed, stuck in isolation, borders are closed and can't visit my friends or family. Everyone saying this shit is easy for introverts have no idea. They seem to think introverts don't do anything or never used to leave their house? Talking to a therapist maybe helps but as other people have said, not knowing if there is any end in sight is what sucks. Not sure why I'm venting to you.
- mancerayder 6y ago
  I understand. I think you need to sub in other activities. This could be something like calisthenics if you want something more technical. There's a German online group called Calimove that have an "At home" workout and also some Calisthenics (starting from basics) levels workouts if you want that. There's some free Youtube stuff, and then there's some paid courses that give exact workouts. If something more basic is what you're after, biking or running. It's a time of adaptation, and it sucks for sure but it's simply Necessary. If I told you what I'm doing instead of olympic weightlifting you would laugh. However it really helps reduce that exact angst you're describing (which I'm very familiar with as well). I consider physical exercise to be as critical to me as everything else, and absolutely essential for my mental health. I happen to be an introvert as well and feel similarly, btw.

flyGuyOnTheSly 6y ago

>it is really strange that people feel they have to go work out in groups. Or get together, or go to bars. We're not all satiated simply by popping pills and plugging into the cloud or whatever it is you do with your free time. Most humans have a strong need for social interaction. What is the point of preserving life if nobody is allowed to live theirs?

dvcrn 6y ago

I am one of those people that goes to a small gym near my apartment daily, even in the current times. The gym isn't very full, maybe a total of 4-5 people when I'm there (I picked my time based on how full it is). Everyone is obligated to wear a mask, there are disinfection sprays and one-time-use wipes that we have to use after finishing with a machine. Some people are also disinfecting equipment before they use it. The gym has the windows open and added disinfection diffuser thingies into each corner. The reason for why I take the risk and keep go is pretty simple: Mental health. When we had a lockdown, gyms closed and I was confined to my apartment 24/7 I felt horrible. Days just blurred into each other, I gained weight, my motivation to do anything dropped. My life was just work and I hated it. Of course I bought a set of dumbbells (which were also ridiculously expensive because everyone had the same idea) and tried running but that only gets you so far. I can't get more equipment at home because my apartment is like 35sqm When the gyms reopned I started going again and kept my guard up: Disinfect everything, don't be near other people, be careful when I take my mask off, wash my hands before I touch anything after I finish. Since then I started feeling much better. Even if I don't do anything else like meeting friends, going out for drinks, or if my workday happened to be shitty, I have something that makes me think more about myself and my health. Sports has incredible benefits on mood, sleep and mental health, hence why I take the risk. For all we know, this pandemic can continue for a very long time. I'm not saying we should all forget the virus and do what we did before, but we should still try to find a somewhat healthy day-cycle that doesn't knock us in lockdown depression. Going to a small, empty gym while keeping my guard up is my calculated risk of "with corona".

konjin 6y ago

> I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. The virus kills old people. Yes, it is very sentimental to let your grandmother die. But the savings in long term care alone will more than pay for any emotional distress you have in the short term.

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notyourwork 6y ago

> Adding to the post, I read it earlier... it is really strange that people feel they have to go work out in groups. Or get together, or go to bars. I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain. When problems are on this massive of a scale it is easy for individuals to think "cannot be me". Reality is that it is all of us.

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urza 6y ago

>I would call the "proper authorities" You must be a really nice person.