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A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

• duxup 7y ago
  I worked a pizza (among others) job through high school and college. I've been overworked at many professional technical jobs in different roles before. I'm paid a great deal more now, and yet I was never more tired or worn out or found it hard to study than when I worked the ovens at the pizza place. I often work with people who have never worked such jobs. They're upset that they're 'overworked' and spend their time in the fancy break room with all the perks. Many I suspect have no clue.
  • thinkloop 7y ago
    There is no bigger lie than hard work = prosperity. It is literally the exact opposite. Think of the hardest shittiest jobs and they are almost always the least paying. The richer you get the less hard work is, until you're able to reach the pinnacle of doing absolutely nothing but managing your money and taking advantage of discounted cap gains taxes. I grew up rich with every opportunity and never had one of these jobs, but it's clear as day. To get more money you have to pry it from people's hands. You have to have something they can't resist not paying you for. That's it. The suffering of low minimum wage is supposed to "encourage" people to move up the value chain, as the conservative doctrine goes, but it just doesn't work when all your time and energy is spent surviving.
    • duxup 7y ago
      So true. Honestly, I only made it out (I was probabbly not going to make it through college due to all the work and my own personality when I was young was NOT ready for college) because I got lucky, had some mild technical skills and the .com era came along and companies wanted warm bodies. I picked some aged old company and they hired me. That company stuck around for a long enough time to establish a career. Working pizza ... could easily have kept me down due to that and other challenges.
    • MisterOctober 7y ago
      This is a damn good point. Whenever my friends, or kids of my friends, start talking about taking some foodservice or other really hard, low-paying job, I roundly encourage them to avoid it if remotely practical and build marketable skills and connections instead. Another bad thing about those types of jobs is that they can start to warp your mind after a while, to the effect that you start unconsciously considering your superiors / managers as role models, and start trying to 'move up the ladder' because the pay is marginally better, when in reality most of the time the _top_ of the "ladder" at such organizations are compensated less than entry-level positions for in-demand skilled workers -- I've been continuously employed [out of what I _thought_ was necessity] since I was 16, and until I was about 26 the majority of my jobs were in the foodservice / warehouse / gofer / etc hard-work-long-hours-very-low-pay category. If I had to do over again, I would have stayed away from those situations by any means available and used that time to build valuable skills [as I later did], which would almost certainly have resulted in better outcomes, sooner.
    • lurquer 7y ago
      >There is no bigger lie than hard work = prosperity. It is literally the exact opposite. Hard work leads to prosperity. That's not the same as equating prosperity to hard work. Most prosperous people achieved prosperity due to earlier hard work and sacrifice of themselves (or their immediate ancestors.) Clearly, the 'value chain', as you put it, exists as evidenced by the numerous posts on this thread of describing the previous fast-food-type jobs they held that led them to more 'prosperous' positions (at least, affording enough prosperity to spend time posting messages to the internet instead of digging ditches or flipping burgers.)
      • venatiodecorus 7y ago
        the lie is working :)
      • thinkloop 7y ago
        The problem with this discussion is the definition of "hard". Is pushing a rock up and down a mountain easier or harder than getting a degree in computers? For me it's the former, studying cool stuff in cafes seems "easier".
      • jfk13 7y ago
        > Hard work leads to prosperity. Sometimes it does. Other times, it's barely enough to achieve survival. > Most prosperous people achieved prosperity due to earlier hard work and sacrifice of themselves (or their immediate ancestors.) Or their distant ancestors. Or due to their -- or their ancestors' -- criminal activities or exploitative behavior or sheer luck.
        • lurquer 7y ago
          It's odd how the same people who are prone to excuse criminals on the basis of the criminal's poverty, so frequently accuse rich people of having obtained their wealth through illicit means.
          • dragonsngoblins 7y ago
            Eh not really. The idea that stealing because you need to in order to eat/have a place to sleep being a lesser crime than stealing to be wealthy makes a lot of sense to me.
    • Kaveren 7y ago
      The hard work part is studying so you have a skillset.
    • JordanFarmer 7y ago
      hard work = prosperity, I don't think I have ever seen or heard that without further advice or instruction. Hard work is only one component toward advancement. You have to have a plan to advance and make good choices as well.
  • derg 7y ago
    >I often work with people who have never worked such jobs. They're upset that they're 'overworked' and spend their time in the fancy break room with all the perks. Many I suspect have no clue. Not that it's a realistic idea but damn if everyone had experiencing working in the demanding, underpaid, crappy jobs in the service industry, we might be more empathetic and better off as a whole.
    • kingkawn 7y ago
      Why is it not realistic?
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • throwaheyy 7y ago
      I’ve always thought that working in a retail/fastfood/service job of some kind should be a necessary requirement for graduating from childhood to adulthood.
      • cameronbrown 7y ago
        I found it annoying to work in retail but I appreciate where I am now 1000x more.
        • Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
          You learn a lot of little things you can do to make the cashier's job easier. My local store had a good sale on 12-packs of soda and so I decided to stock up with a dozen packs (I like a variety). I loaded them into my cart upside-down so the barcodes were facing up. The cashier just had to take the hand scanner and zap each one super easy and didn't have to lift any of them. It saved both of us time and effort and the cashier was extremely appreciative.
    • leetcrew 7y ago
      I'm not so sure about that. I worked in a takeout place for a few years, and it just made me a lot more cynical. the privileged and the poor seem to enjoy abusing service workers at about the same rate in my experience.
  • matz1 7y ago
    Everyone is different, I have plenty of friend who work in food service, they wouldn't want to trade for my developer job.
    • to1y 7y ago
      Perhaps you have some interesting friends, but to me this sounds like it is based in no real-life experience. It's a very stressful job for little reward that leaves you completely depleted at the end of the day to do anything to dig yourself out.
      • matz1 7y ago
        From their perspective, my job is the stressful job. Sure that physically my job is easy but to them my job is stressful because it requires a lot of thinking, not to mention a lot of learning and studying. Its a different kind of stress.
      • fphhotchips 7y ago
        Plenty of people have no desire to apply creative thought or take further responsibility at their workplace. My best friend's boyfriend, for example. Has a university degree, works at a gas station. Was a manager at that gas station, didn't enjoy it, went back to being a team member. Leaves his work at work, checks off the boxes on the checklist while he's there. He does have the relative security that comes with having a long term partner that does make a professional salary, but I don't think that diminishes the motivational piece. Not everyone is as ambitious as every one else. Of those that are, not everyone's ambition is pointed in the same direction. Some people just want to rock up at work for 8 hours a day, go home, watch some shit TV that they enjoy and then go to bed. Frankly, that's ok. There's not enough programmer/marketing professional/CEO/Founder roles for everyone to have them.
  • monoideism 7y ago
    Having worked several years in both retail and waiting/busing tables (full-time, not just as a part-time college job), I have a great deal of empathy for folks stuck in these minimum wage jobs. That said, if I could get a retail job that paid what I make as a dev, I’d definitely consider it. Retail was grueling, but at the same time much less psychological pressure, and much less mentally exhausting. I always say I’m not going to let my next dev job take over my life, and maintain work/life balance, and things always start out well. But inevitably, pressure builds, I cave, and things get bad again. I realize that I share the blame for this situation, but at the same time, this situation seems to be more common than not among software devs. I never faced this kind of pressure in retail jobs. Work was grueling and at time abusive, but when the work day was over, I was 100% able to relax and forget about work. I struggle to do that with a software job. But at the same time, my compensation is considerably higher than most other jobs. So I’m both grateful for my job and yet still wish there were another way. Like a part-time software development job, which seem to be unusually rare.
    • Cldfire 7y ago
      I share this view myself, neat to see someone else feels the same way. I'm a CS student and I've been working at a Panera for about a year now. I love my particular store and the work environment is great; I genuinely look forward to going to work every day. I'll miss my coworkers when I have to quit soon to start my programming career. That being said, I understand why those jobs could never realistically pay anything near what a good software dev job can. If you could make the same amount of money working a job like that, why would anyone put in the effort to get stressed out as a programmer? It wouldn't make sense. The solution is to fix dev jobs so they're more balanced and less stressful :)
      • Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
        I work in cybersecurity now, but worked retail for 7 years, fast food (Subway) for 6 years, and a ride op at a major theme park (Cedar Point) for 2 summers. If I could work the ride op or fast food jobs at my current salary, I'd take them in a heart beat. Hell, I might even take the ride op job for half the salary because the job could sometimes be a lot of fun. But retail? Hell no. You could offer me double my salary and I'd still hesitate before accepting it. People treat retail employees like utter garbage. We once had a customer berate a cashier to tears, yelling at her and literally calling her an "incompetent stupid bitch", because his credit card was being declined and he was insisting she was just entering his card wrong.
  • dpeck 7y ago
    working in heat, whether from ovens/fryer, engines, or something else is so incredibly draining that its hard for people to understand unless they've done it. At the end of the day you just want a room temperature shower and a cold drink, the mental capacity isn't really there for much else.
    • partomniscient 7y ago
      It's like everyday work is an endurance sport. This is why I feel so much for those building the stadiums for the next football(/soccer) world cup. What's even worse is they're being worked to death as slaves in all but name. If you don't have enough downtime/nutrition to recover between shifts you slowly fall apart.
  • Baeocystin 7y ago
    I worked as a welder in a shipyard for a couple of years after the .com crash. No complaints, I actually enjoyed the work, but it was exhausting in a way that no office job can compare. The experience also makes me want to throttle folks who have never lifted anything heavier than a pen as I hear them whine about utter trivial things. I don't, because it is considered rude to throttle one's co-workers. The urge remains.
    • bayarrhea 7y ago
      Can we stop acting like work is a competition? People with shittier jobs don’t have a monopoly on complaining. Otherwise, I could say “oh yeah? What about people who worked with asbestos and died? You think welding is hard? What about dying from lung cancer, HMMM?” Just because your work isn’t as grueling as someone else’s doesn’t mean you don’t get to be unhappy or dissatisfied with it.
      • Baeocystin 7y ago
        That's not the point I'm after. I liked my welding job. A lot, actually. I never felt it was a 'shitty job'. But I also like not dying by industrial accident or poisoning my body with metal fume. And the stresses of a career in tech are much more tolerable when you have other work to compare it to. Having a wider perspective leads to a greater appreciation for what one has, after all. And that is a good thing.
  • agumonkey 7y ago
    I heard they even have toilets at workplace.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • seem_2211 7y ago
    My first job was working in a supermarket, on the register and collecting the trolleys. You got a break roughly 90-120 minutes. You REALLY miss one / notice when you're running late. Now I work in an office. It's nothing to go 4-6 hours without stopping. But of course I can stop and pop out for a coffee or a snack, or lunch whenever I want. $4 extra an hour would change this woman's life (and a lot of other people like her). $4 extra an hour.. I don't think I'd notice it. Many of us are SO SO fortunate, we can't even begin to imagine how good we have it.
  • e40 7y ago
    When I was 14 I worked as a busboy at a BBQ place. For like 2 weeks, before they found out I was underaged and fired me. I was never so exhausted in my entire life, before or after. And I was a strong swimmer when I started that job, and was quite fit. I worked at gas stations after that, before college, and while it was tiring, nothing at the same level. I can totally imagine a pizza job would be draining.
  • MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    I think this is the biggest problem America has as a country now. People dying in the streets due to lack of healthcare/homelessness, and being stuck delivering pizza with no real routes to get out other than to “learn to code”...
    • lsiebert 7y ago
      Agreed. Plus so many opportunities for people bypass the working poor. Sure, a full time bootcamp might be tuition free or offer a scholarship, but it doesn't pay rent or buy food.
  • eismcc 7y ago
    Yes. Before college, I worked two years as a night shift machine operator in a cup factory. Try taking the SAT the morning after a full night of work.
  • altacc 7y ago
    This is exactly my thoughts when I hear people complaining that they pay more tax as high earners because they're "worked hard" for the money and to get there. Hard work is relative and people are working very hard at all salary levels. There are many other constructs which are the true reasons behind how much people earn.
  • silexia 7y ago
    I started my career working the night shift stocking shelves at Home Depot and riding the bus. I now own a 180 full time employee agency and am on the other side. The solution here must come from the government... McDonald's and no other single employer can raise wages as their competitors will not and they will go out of business due to being too expensive. I agree with the Fight for $15... But I think they need to attach this to inflation or somehow as a percentage of the highest incomes in the economy. Otherwise Trump will just keep pressuring the Fed to print more money and $15 will only be worth $5 in today's money.
• moonbug 7y ago
  Americans: fix your healthcare system.
  • sezna 7y ago
    I vote and I protest, but yet those with money continue to corrupt the system. I feel much more like a victim of the system than a participant. How would you suggest a typical American HN reader go about effecting change?
    • echelon 7y ago
      Probably emigrate, to be honest. A brain drain or loss of labor might do the trick. It's the ultimate peaceful vote of no confidence. The system isn't changing right now because it works for those in power. Without bodies to do the work, they'll change their tone. I don't expect this to happen, though. A lot of engineers are comfy with the top-tier healthcare provided by their employers, so they're likely not willing to leave America. (There are a lot of other perks of our country too, I'm just highlighting this one dimension. I'm certainly not going to leave over this even though I also feel my efforts to affect change are futile.) I suspect that there are even people who believe healthcare isn't a right.
      • jammygit 7y ago
        Come to Canada!
        • dbtx 7y ago
          Canada very likely disagrees on this being a good idea in many individual cases, such as mine...
          • jammygit 7y ago
            You’re right, but I have met a lot of successful immigrants who did have a good experience. I’m sure experiences vary dramatically
• jdkee 7y ago
  Unions, unions, unions.
  • threatofrain 7y ago
    The most powerful tool in any union is a strike, but McDonalds is okay with that now, and won't be bringing in any scabs to replace those who are gone. They will be replaced by machines and the consumers are going to see a value-add.
    • ogre_magi 7y ago
      I get McDonald's for breakfast occasionally and I really, really like the kiosks. A much better and more reliable ordering experience.
      • Scoundreller 7y ago
        Does the USA not have mobile ordering for McD’s? Or is that just a Canada trial thing?
        • bluedino 7y ago
          We have them.
    • CharlesColeman 7y ago
      > They will be replaced by machines and the consumers are going to see a value-add. This is tech fantasy, like Musk promising that Teslas will be fully self-driving any minute now.
      • threatofrain 7y ago
        By tech fantasy are we talking about the kiosks which are already providing a value-add to customers? Similarly, sometimes when I see a restaurant use Yelp for check-in, reservations, and queue management, I imagine that's a sizable fraction of a job.
• codedokode 7y ago
  > The bus stops running at 10 p.m. on Sunday, but McDonald's asked me to stay until close at 1 a.m. They asked me to stay because they need my help. I know it’s going to be rough to find a way home, but I need the money so I said yes. Cannot she ask them to pay for a taxi then? Also I didn't understand why she lives so far away from work.
  • SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    "Cannot she ask them to pay for a taxi then? Also I didn't understand why she lives so far away from work." 1) Its unlikely the 30$ she's worth closing or whatever is worth hirind the taxi about. 2) Moving is expensive, and moving to a more desirable location even moreso. She may not be able to afford the time to seek out a space, the credit to be approved, the deposit, etc.
  • Miner49er 7y ago
    Why would McDonald's pay for a taxi for her? I can't imagine them doing that. She might not live that far from work. It might be a 20 minute drive, but with the bus system in most towns in the US it's not crazy for that to take a couple of hours on a bus with walking (the closest bus stop to her is a 30 minute walk it said). I'm sure if she could get a job closer that pays as well she would've by now.
    • asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
      A bike would possibly be the ideal solution for someone in her shoes. Of course, there's that lovely enhanced risk of dying you get for daring to brave the streets on two wheels in the US. But if she gets back significant time from changing it up, it might be worth it.
      • deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      • reaperducer 7y ago
        If she's working two jobs and one of them is McDonald's, she probably can't afford a bike.
• niiejakoo 7y ago
  Feels nice to click the author's name and see their previous two articles "How the 2010s Taught Us to Hate the Rich" and "Ban the SAT and ACT". I don't think this narrative was actually written by the person they are discussing even though it's in first person.
• nullbyte 7y ago
  Wow. This really makes me thankful for what I have.
• x2f10 7y ago
  Her job is already going away; McDonald's around me have already replaced cashiers with kiosks. Unionizing and requiring $15/hr + full benefits is only going to accelerate McDonald's automation plans. Is the answer to fight for $15/hr or is the answer to go back to school, apply to more jobs, and/or go into a trade? Honest question.
  • SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    > If the answer to fight for $15/hr or is the answer to go back to school, apply to more jobs, and/or go into a trade? Honest question. Seems to me the goal should be to get a wage where you can afford to go back to school. I don't think it's fair to argue that the kiosks are replacing the cashiers only because they want a $15/hr wage - that's coming whether they want to or not. The only thing that the cashier can do is do their best to collect the resources right now to get out of that situation, and one of those is more earnings.
  • larnmar 7y ago
    Honestly I think the solution is emigration. There are places in the world where you can make a living without any particular skill set, but I don’t think the US, or any other first-world country, should really be among them. The US needs immigration reform to bring more high-skilled people into the country, but it also needs emigration reform to find new homes for people who can’t necessarily make a reasonable living in a first-world country.
    • gruez 7y ago
      It sounds to me that you're advocating for sending low class/uneducated/low skilled Americans to developing countries. Is this a fair representation of your proposal?
    • tombert 7y ago
      Please correct me if I misunderstood this, but are you seriously suggesting that the way we solve problems of poverty is to just get rid of the poor people?
• jammygit 7y ago
  I worked as a cashier once and it wasn’t the same as it is for my friends who still do. These days, they all have employment contracts, non-competes, and self checkouts taking their jobs. Back in my day, you could just leave any retail job like that and go across the street
  • owlninja 7y ago
    >employment contracts, non-competes What retail stores have this in place for cashiers?
    • therealcamino 7y ago
      Until 2016, Jimmy John's was doing this to employees, until NY State made them stop. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/22/jimmy-johns-drops-non-compete-clauses-following-settlement.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/22/jimmy-johns-drops-non-compet...
• justinsaccount 7y ago
  > It’s 8 p.m. and my scheduled shift is over, but they asked me to stay later > The bus stops running at 10 p.m. on Sunday, but McDonald's asked me to stay until close at 1 a.m. They asked me to stay because they need my help. Thats not a job, that's an abusive relationship.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • mrguyorama 7y ago
    An employer's desire is to pay/benefit you as little as you will possibly take. It is ALWAYS an adversarial relationship. No matter how much you like your boss, someone up the chain is trying to screw you, somehow
    • grecy 7y ago
      I feel sad that you might not know this: What you said doesn't apply to many, many other countries around the world. Hundreds of millions of people don't live like this.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • itqwertz 7y ago
    Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm for a lot of low-level jobs in the United States. You end up giving in because the job market for such jobs is saturated and others will take it for lower wages/off-the-books. When I was 18 (many years ago), I remember having a job that did the same "we need you to stay later" BS. The buses stopped running at 8PM in the suburbs and I had to regularly walk 5-6 miles back home. Cabs and Lyft/Uber aren't much of an option when it would significantly eat into your paycheck. Most people get tired of giving you rides because you cannot afford a car. Using a bicycle was more dangerous than walking; some people would throw things out their window at you or swerve/yell to scare you. Factor in how managers "reward" certain employees with better shifts or punish by cutting hours. I could see why many people switch to the dole or dealing.
• Frondo 7y ago
  These questions like "why doesn't she simply x or y" make me sad. The person in the article is poor, not dumb. She likely can't move. It's expensive to move, no matter who you are, and since she has two jobs, it seems like she's going to spend a lot of time on the bus no matter what. She definitely can't demand McDonald's pay for a taxi, or she can ask, be turned down, and have her hours cut for next week. They'll cut her hours if she just leaves at the end of her shift, and they ask her to stay. She's already doing something that could ultimately have a positive material impact on her life, organizing with her coworkers. It's just that the many interlocking systems around her life all work against her; bad public transit, bad pay for physically exhausting work, and having to fight so hard for something as basic as a union at her workplace. This is a situation that calls for compassion, understanding, and working alongside her to change the systems that keep her in this situation, not suggesting "why doesn't she".
  • paggle 7y ago
    Also, she is “dumb,” because poverty is exhausting and exhaustion lowers your IQ massively. Have everyone in this thread run away from a mass shooting and then ask them to debug a deadlock.
  • codedokode 7y ago
    But if she and her boyfriend work full time even for $9.50/hr, they still earn 9.50 x 320 = $3040/month and that's not a little sum. With such income, do they really have to live in some rural area with poor public transit and job choice? Something doesn't add up here.
    • MultusSalus 7y ago
      That’s assuming they both get to work full time. The article mentions $215 as a McDonalds paycheck. Assuming that’s typical, and they’re both working two jobs, you get $1720/month.
      • badpun 7y ago
        She mentioned that it was less than she anticipated. Also, a month has 4.33 weeks on average, so even with the $215 weekly, they would be making $1863 per month.
• sebringj 7y ago
  Before I had a programmer job when i was younger, i completely 100% empathize with her in having those types of thankless jobs and constantly being tired. I can't imagine being trapped in that going forward. I bootstrapped my situation but I had a nice parents, a middle-class upbringing and a decent school to start everything, and a knack for programming... but I know/met so many who do not have this leg up in whatever they do in those experiences and have to continue that scraping by. This is why I lean toward UBI. I know both people who really want to succeed but are stuck from so many things or even people that will never try. It is what it is and is only getting worse with automation. I feel sorry for people that have not experienced these things that insist of the work ethic being the answer and are blind to reality.
  • throwaway07Ju19 7y ago
    In the U.S. there is one presidential candidate championing a UBI of $1000/mo. It would be paid for by a VAT tax. Typically VAT tax is unpopular because it is regressive. But the UBI more than compensates for the extra tax burden.
    • tj-teej 7y ago
      It is not a UBI as it is not U. The McDonalds cashier is likely getting subsidized housing and food stamp benefits. Yang's plan would require that the cashier has to choose between the "UBI" or her existing benefits. I asked his campaign why they designed it this way and they did not have an answer, I was told to ask the candidate directly, which was disappointing.
      • maxaf 7y ago
        > Yang's plan would require that the cashier has to choose between the "UBI" or her existing benefits. I'm neutral on Yang's campaign, but I like the idea of a UBI because administering it will be much cheaper than running existing benefits. Means-testing has a real and very sizeable cost. What will happen to all the guvment workers who will get laid off once existing benefits have been supplanted by the UBI? They will go home to merrily enjoy their new UBI checks.
• NicoJuicy 7y ago
  One of the best services a supermarket can have is: free-policy when you have to wait > 2 people. They do it with human cashier's and are insanely popular and low-cost. No one truelly cares about self-service, it's just hype. ( Personal opinion)
  • ceejayoz 7y ago
    > No one truelly cares about self-service, it's just hype. My grocery store recently instituted scan-as-you-go via a smartphone app, and I love it. I bag as I go along, precisely the way I want everything bagged (no crushed bread, no meat juice dripping on the candy) and basically walk out the door.
    • Xavdidtheshadow 7y ago
      What grocery store is that, and what region?
      • ceejayoz 7y ago
        Wegmans, in upstate NY. https://www.wegmans.com/service/wegmans-scan.html https://www.wegmans.com/service/wegmans-scan.html
      • Scoundreller 7y ago
        Walmart is trialling it in a location in Toronto. I wish they had a proper barcode scanner to carry around instead of using the phone to scan though.
    • Scoundreller 7y ago
      Look into bags like this: https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Organizer-Modern-Day-Living/dp/B07CVNCQ72 https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Organizer-Modern-Day-Living/... What I also like is that it helps me keep the cold-chain better sustained.
    • vkou 7y ago
      > precisely the way I want everything bagged (no crushed bread, no meat juice dripping on the candy) I'm not sure what stores you go to, but just about every (bagger/cashier who bags) that I have ever interacted with has done their job quite well, and much faster than I would. They have incentive to do so, because when they fuck up, or are too slow, they get chewed out by their manager. They also have 8 hours a day to practice. Combined with the shit-show[1] of the self-service checkout station UIs (I haven't memorized every one of the 50+ produce codes - the cashiers have), and there is no universe where I get a better service in the self-serve checkout aisle. Unfortunately, most of the full-service aisles have been eliminated, because it's cheaper to make customers waste their time struggling with the machines, than to employ cashiers. To the grocery, my time is free. [1] To add insult to injury, the bagging area for the self-service machines is tiny - you can barely fit two shopping bags on it, so you end up playing a game of Tetris, as you try to scan your items. F* everything about self-service checkout machines. I still use them, because, thanks to the shortages, the full-service aisle lines are always too long.
• KingMachiavelli 7y ago
  > She says she plans to work for as long as possible, trying to provide for her baby. As part time employees, we don’t get health insurance or paid sick days. And the cycle repeats. I know it's a cold, impersonal take, but when life sucks, having a child is going to make it worse and most likely just lead to a new generation of suffering. As much as a $15 minimum wage might help, even at $12 in Colorado, McDonald's already has touchscreen machines you can order from instead of at the counter - which might already not be manned all the time (it seems that now they often have a single person taking orders at the front counter and the drive through). So I'm skeptical if $15 minimum wage would work. It might work for the hospital job, at least the margin's there are higher and they are less able to automate the job away.
  • SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    " I know it's a cold, impersonal take, but when life sucks, having a child is going to make it worse and most likely just lead to a new generation of suffering." She could've had the child when her economics were in a better place. She could've been assaulted. She could've been denied the education to prevent the pregnancy. There are a bajillion and one reasons why a child might exist and she is responsible for it.
    • KingMachiavelli 7y ago
      > She could've had the child when her economics were in a better place. She could've been assaulted. She could've been denied the education to prevent the pregnancy It's possible but not probable when you consider that 42.3% of births are paid for via Medicaid [1]. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_13-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_13-508.pdf
      • SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        Medicaid is also the largest insurance provider in the USA, so it makes sense they have a lot of births. Doesn't explain much.
      • 7y ago
• relganz 7y ago
  Yang!
• jumbopapa 7y ago
  I'm probably going to catch some flak, but I see some optimizations she can make. - McDonald's offers college tuition reimbursement, when you're low income this is one of the best ROI you have available to you. - McDonald's offers a 401k plan with up to 7% match. Even if you took the 10% early withdrawal penalty this is money in your pocket. I don't think the best use of her time is lobbying for a $15/hr minimum wage that will more quickly move her to a $0/hr wage. Gain knowledge, skills, and have a good work ethic and it is not that hard to get ahead in America.
  • ceejayoz 7y ago
    McDonald's tuition assistance is only $2,500 a year. That wouldn't even pay for the average community college's tuition. It can be hard to put money in a 401(k) when you're already living paycheck-to-paycheck, especially if you're trying your college idea.
    • jumbopapa 7y ago
      I never said it would be easy, but I don't think it's impossible.
      • SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        But you did say it would be "not that hard".
        • jumbopapa 7y ago
          Does that not imply a degree of hardness?
          • ceejayoz 7y ago
            Playing dumb doesn't really help the argument. If someone says "c'mon, it's not that hard" they don't mean it's difficult, and I suspect you know that.
• outworlder 7y ago
  Other than the low salaries, there are two compounding issues here: – Transportation. The US is very unfriendly to forms of transportation that are not cars. There are a few exceptions, but these are exceptions. Good public transport or even bike lanes would massively improve conditions for a lot of people. – Health care. Private companies are overcharging people and have made health care(hospitals and medication) unreachable if you don't have your costs subsidized by your employer. – Education. Higher education would likely help this person. But how could she afford it?
  • paulcole 7y ago
    > Good public transport or even bike lanes would massively improve conditions for a lot of people. Bring up public transit or bicycling to people in nearly every non-urban part of the United States and you'll get a million reasons why it won't work. Car culture is so engrained in America that people have convinced themselves there is no alternative. "I'd get sweaty", "Oh but I have to carry...", "Walking to the stop would take...", "My kids...", "I don't want to sit next to people..." . Even the rare people who actually have to drive refuse to understand why they should be among the strongest proponents of alternative and public transit.
    • smileysteve 7y ago
      A 80 year old man was remarking how Gen Z (and late millennials) aren't even getting their licenses as teens anymore. It's amazing to think that he was the first generation of the ubiquitous automobile in the US and now can't comprehend how the generation before him got around.
      • cnasc 7y ago
        > now can't comprehend how the generation before him got around. The generation before him _didn’t_ get around, relatively speaking. Widespread use of the automobile changed transportation patterns dramatically.
        • 7y ago
• TurkishPoptart 7y ago
  This is why I get annoyed when people praise the successes of the economy (aka artificially manipulated stock market) and our low unemployment rate. $9, $10, $11 may be a _survivable_ wage in Durham, SC, but prices and costs of living keep going up, and wages remain stagnant. In real wages this woman is probably bringing home only $6-$7 an hour, effectively making _less_ than she would have in, say, 2005 or 2010. I don't have any charts or tables to back this up, but I sure pay a lot of attention to prices at the grocery store.
  • dls2016 7y ago
    > effectively making _less_ than she would have in, say, 2005 or 2010 I started working in 1998 at 16-years-old. I could make $9.50/hr washing dishes or more as a bus boy on a busy night. Shit's whack. Of course as a suburban kid I had reliable transportation. The constantly rotating cast of dishwashers virtually never had this access.
    • tehwebguy 7y ago
      How? I made $6.25 bagging groceries in 2002
      • Scoundreller 7y ago
        Probably a high Cost or Living area where cheap labour is hard to get.
      • madengr 7y ago
        Probably under the table. I made $4/Hr in 1988 as a bus boy, etc. The entire kitchen staff, but one, was paid directly from the cash register at the end of the night. The couple that owned that restaurant sold it for several $M.
      • dls2016 7y ago
        Busy restaurant next to an amusement park (Hersheypark). They couldn't keep anyone in the job. I didn't even want it because I was "bad at doing my taxes" and could make more as a busser making $5.50/hour plus cash tips. But they worked out a deal where I would bus tables and do just enough dishes to keep things moving, then when it died down I'd clock in as a dishwasher at the higher rate and close down. Housing in town I guess was relatively expensive (not as much as now). And it wasn't under the table, though I was responsible for claiming tips and they didn't follow child labor laws. Built a studio with that money!
• narrator 7y ago
  The people who do ok with these jobs are people with tight nit families who live 12 people to an apartment and share all expenses. For some reason, that kind of living arrangement never works in America. Zoning can cause that to be a problem, but there are other reasons it doesn't work. I was reading a blog by an American who took a job at a hair cutter in China and 12 people lived in 3 rooms in bunk beds in the back of the store and they never fought. He commented that this living situation would never work in America.
  • stevenwoo 7y ago
    That living situation describes migrant farm workers and day workers across America, probably any industry that use illegal immigrants for most of their labor.
• rb808 7y ago
  In the old days middle class kids all had real service/manual jobs as teenagers & college students. Its scary that now the new generation has to read about what it is like.
  • EliRivers 7y ago
    Some of the middle class teenage kids I know would love to have service or manual jobs - earn some cash around school and over the holidays - but those jobs are now occupied by grown adults. It is scary, but not because middle class teenagers miss out on them.
  • hurrdurr2 7y ago
    McDonald's was my first job in high school. I took it because I wanted to get away from being slave labor to my parents who owned a liquor store. I worked there for a year with a rotating cast of characters including those from first generation immigrant /low income backgrounds such as myself. One thing that year taught me? I needed to get into a good college and learn something useful.
• excalibur 7y ago
  Everybody seems to be latching on to the McDonald's part of her story, the author included. But it's the hospital part I find mortifying. McDonald's is pinching pennies left and right, it's their key to success. The hospital is not. How much would you guess they're charging per day for the average patient to stay there? I bet it's enough money to cover full-time employment and benefits for their food service workers.
  • jonnycoder 7y ago
    Hopefully Trump's new federal policy of requiring hospital groups to disclose prices will help answer these questions and put pressure on that industry.
    • nickthemagicman 7y ago
      "Hospitals could be fined $300 a day by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services if they don’t comply with the new disclosure rule, officials said." https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/trump-releases-rule-requiring-hospitals-and-insurers-to-disclose-negotiated-rates.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/trump-releases-rule-requirin... The stick is not big enough.
      • carty76ers 7y ago
        Is that per non-disclosure event?
      • MR4D 7y ago
        Clearly it is. The hospitals are suing the government to prevent the rule. A massive amount is about to be spent on lawyers, so clearly they see this as a huge threat. [0] - https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2019/12/04/550275.htm https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2019/12/04/55...
        • ntsplnkv2 7y ago
          Of course - the fine can be increased or changed if they don't challenge it. Doesn't mean it's enough now.
• gazelle21 7y ago
  Wow reading some of these comments makes me sad. Some of you have no idea how sad and hopeless situations can be. Before working as a dev I worked in fast food for 5 year, full time and while going to college. I worked with some people who were so trapped, I feel guilty at times.
• alistairSH 7y ago
  Weird, in reader mode (Safari on MacOS), this is the text (other than the title, nothing at all about McDonalds cashiers, other than a letter about collecting receipts)... How I Get By: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier Cierra Brown is trying to do all she can on her own, but it rarely feels like she’s doing enough. By Maxwell Strachan Dec 5 2019, 11:11amShareTweetSnap Got something on your mind? Email the Funbag. Your letters: Eric: My dear 80-something year old dad is normal in every respect. Except, he collects McDonald's receipts. Yes, that McDonald's.
• kevinqiu1 7y ago
  Even though it seems like she lives in an urban area (or urban enough to be squeezed by rising home prices), the public transit is so poor that she spends 3-5x more time getting to work without a car than with one. Sometimes she can't even get home. That's crazy, the car dependence of America means that you need to pay for insurance + a car to even function in society. That is the opposite of freedom
  • kortilla 7y ago
    > you need to pay for insurance + a car to even function in society. That is the opposite of freedom I’m not sure what “freedom” is supposed to mean in that context. How is being dependent on paying for public transportation better? In countries where public transportation is amazing enough to obviate the need for cars, you just trade in the freedom to go wherever you want whenever you want.
    • WilTimSon 7y ago
      There are some countries where public transport is free for citizens, I'm pretty sure. And even if you have to pay for public transport... gas isn't free either. And car maintenance gets pricey. And insurance. Meanwhile, public transport is a known quantity. Pay this much for a ticket/monthly pass and ride wherever you need in city limits.
  • theslurmmustflo 7y ago
    Hey, don't knock it, it boosts our GDP!
    • kleer001 7y ago
      If you use a single metric for success it will stop being useful as people will optimize for that number, it will be an end unto its self.
  • minikites 7y ago
    >127. A technological advance that appears not to threaten freedom often turns out to threaten it very seriously later on. For example, consider motorized transport. A walking man formerly could go where he pleased, go at his own pace without observing any traffic regulations, and was independent of technological support-systems. When motor vehicles were introduced, they appeared to increase man's freedom. They took no freedom away from the walking man, no one had to have an automobile if he didn't want one, and anyone who did choose to buy an automobile could travel much faster and farther than a walking man. But the introduction of motorized transport soon changed society in such a way as to restrict greatly man's freedom of locomotion. When automobiles became numerous, it became necessary to regulate their use extensively. In a car, especially in densely populated areas, one cannot just go where one likes at one's own pace one's movement is governed by the flow of traffic and by various traffic laws. One is tied down by various obligations: license requirements, driver test, renewing registration, insurance, maintenance required for safety, monthly payments on purchase price. Moreover, the use of motorized transport is no longer optional. Since the introduction of motorized transport, the arrangement of our cities has changed in such a way that the majority of people no longer live within walking distance of their place of employment, shopping areas and recreational opportunities, so that they HAVE TO depend on the automobile for transportation. Or else they must use public transportation, in which case they have even less control over their own movement than when driving a car. Even the walker's freedom is now greatly restricted. In the city he continually has to stop to wait for traffic lights that are designed mainly to serve auto traffic. In the country, motor traffic makes it dangerous and unpleasant to walk along the highway. (Note this important point that we have just illustrated with the case of motorized transport: When a new item of technology is introduced as an option that an individual can accept or not as he chooses, it does not necessarily REMAIN optional. In many cases the new technology changes society in such a way that people eventually find themselves FORCED to use it.)
• hackerkskn 7y ago
  I started a Gofundme page: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-cierra-to-buy-a-reliable-car?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=m_pd+share-sheet https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-cierra-to-buy-a-reliable-car...
• hackerkskn 7y ago
  I started a gofundme page for her: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-cierra-to-buy-a-reliable-car?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=m_pd+share-sheet https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-cierra-to-buy-a-reliable-car...
• js2 7y ago
  In another America: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/04/realestate/05hunt-polanyi.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/04/realestate/05... (Yes, this an NYT Real Estate fluff piece, but god damn, sometimes I wonder how this is the same country.)
  • iaabtpbtpnn 7y ago
    Perhaps it is the same country precisely because of that disparity? Maybe the rich's lavish lifestyles are only possible due to masses of hidden poor people, who suffer primarily because such rich people exist?
• logfromblammo 7y ago
  I'm seeing a lot of comments in here made from the perspective of people who have never had the experience of being caught on the poverty flypaper. Preying upon the weak is an industry. The admonition to "work harder!" is propaganda disseminated by those who passively benefit from the labor of others. The fact is that wages have not risen along with productivity: it is mostly just ownership dividends that rise. A food-service worker should be able to enjoy the benefits that have accrued to our civilization over many centuries of specialized labor, and still be a functional person in civil society after a day's labor is done--even though food-service work is one of our lowest-status specialties. Even the least of us are still persons in their own right, and in a nation of temporarily embarrassed millionaires, we are all far more likely to stumble into deeper embarrassment than to recover those grandiose estates that were so unfortunately lost when we erred in choosing our parents.
• dekhn 7y ago
  I was a McDonald's cashier many years ago in high school. I could not figure out any possible way to make it work (in the sense of being able to rent a minimal apartment and feed myself). At the time I think my salary was $5/hour and they wouldn't schedule more than 20 hours a week ($400/month). the managers (all of whom had gone to "hamburger U" in Chicago) didn't seem to be doing well, either- they worked 80 hours, often driving between multiple stores all over the state every day. The only person who seemed to be doing well was the person who bought the store as a franchise. When I quit the manager said "I couldn't cut it as a cashier".
  • ipnon 7y ago
    Your labor was freed for more productive means, presumably.
  • npo9 7y ago
    It’s funny how people will try to make you feel guilty for walking away from a bad deal.
• archeantus 7y ago
  The higher I climb the corporate ladder, the higher my salary goes. This is all well and good, but the expectations and stress climb with it too. I like working and applying my brain to solving problems, but I sometimes pine for a job that pays little and expects little. I can’t afford to make that change now and there is a good chance I wouldn’t actually enjoy bagging groceries at the store again, but it’s nice to dream about every now and then.
  • cameronbrown 7y ago
    There is no job where you're paid little and expected little of. You'll just be paid little and you'll do some "low value" physical labour instead.
    • archeantus 7y ago
      Right now the leading candidate on my list is to be a school bus driver. The responsibility is not trivial, but the work doesn’t seem too bad :)
      • progers7 7y ago
        You might enjoy this article about a professor who became one: https://stevesalaita.com/an-honest-living https://stevesalaita.com/an-honest-living. The job seems more complex and more rewarding than I had imagined.
  • rconti 7y ago
    Sure you can. You can afford it more easily than the folks who are currently in those jobs, in fact.
• thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
  One thing that made her life so difficult is the difficulty of getting to and from work. It's pretty crazy that we spend nearly 15% of GDP on transportation costs. I mean sure, we can all reduce the expenses by buying a 10 year old Prius and get our travel costs down. but, a big part of the problem is that housing is always so far away from work. 500 years ago, people lived within a mile or less of their work places. now it's normal for people to live 20 miles or more away. we need to start building our cities with residential and work places closer by and hold employers accountable for where they create jobs. If you want to regulate it, then by all means regulate as follows: no job can be created unless there's an available residential place to live within 1000 feet of it. this would not only save people's lives, but also significantly reduce C02 pollution as transportation is a major source of c02.
  • npo9 7y ago
    A great short term solution would be to increase the investment in the local bus system. Full buses have a much better carbon footprint than single passenger cars. The article highlights a real need for more bus stops and 24/hr bus service.
    • asdff 7y ago
      Enforced bus lanes would go a long way in getting people to use the bus, and if more people use it then maybe headways can get to a reasonable number. I ride the second busiest bus route in LA. Its serviced by a local and a rapid route with less frequent stops, and only the double long accordion style busses are run. You would think the ridership and equipment would make for frequent and reliable service. But sometimes the headways are 7 minutes, sometimes back to back, sometimes over 25 minutes, sometimes skipping the stop. There is no telling.
• scarface74 7y ago
  This by far not a popular opinion, but some jobs aren’t worth $15 an hour. We shouldn’t force social policy on private corporations. Sure she needs more than $9.15/hour to live as an adult and pay for insurance but a teenager staying at home doesn’t. I am strong believer in a social safety net but I think that should be the role of government. She shouldn’t have to depend on private corporations for insurance, that should be the taken care of by government like it is in every other first world country. We already have a program where the government (instead of corporate America) recognizes that the monetary needs of an adult is different from that of a teenager staying at home - the Earned Income Tax Credit. We as a country should both make that more generous and easier to be distributed through out the year. Historically, the EITC was supported by both Democratic and Republican administrations. It shouldn’t take her two hours to get to work, we need better public transportation. Heck barring that I wouldn’t be opposed to subsidizing private transportation solutions like working with Uber and Lyft if it’s cheaper long term.
  • URSpider94 7y ago
    Here's a counter-argument: if people are taking jobs that don't cover their cost of living, and the government is having to step in to subsidize them, then that's effectively a subsidy from the government to the company's bottom line. In general, we Americans believe in the free market, but we also believe that we need limits on what people can legally contract for. For example, we don't let people sell organs. We don't let people sell themselves into slavery. We don't let people put their pre-teen children to work. And we do indeed have a minimum wage. Do you feel like we should abolish the minimum wage altogether, or just that it shouldn't be $15/hour. If so, why?
    • lotsofpulp 7y ago
      Hence a universal basic income.
    • scarface74 7y ago
      It’s not the role of every job to provide a livable income. How many people on HN wouldn’t have a job at all if their company wasn’t subsidized by VCs? There was an article posted here a few months ago that the average 7/11 owner makes $35K a year and that’s with them putting in 60+ hour weeks. Most small business owners aren’t getting rich. Actually, I wouldn’t be completely opposed to abolishing the minimum wage and having a universal basic income.
• amatecha 7y ago
  For people who have worked these kind of jobs: how much difference in your day does it make when people are pleasant or friendly? I get takeout pretty often and I am always super friendly and pay a tip of $2 when I'm picking up -- they still had to do the work of packing up the food, right? And honestly, they probably need the couple bucks more than me. I assume it is appreciated but I always wonder how much of a difference it makes for the person. Whether it's just a drop in the bucket or if they go home in better spirits or whatever. I'm also always curious if it goes into a pool so the cooking staff get a cut as well, cuz they deserve it as well.
  • igneo676 7y ago
    Back when I was a McManager, I appreciated anyone who treated my employees and I like actual human beings. Whenever possible, I'd go above and beyond for those people :) At my peak I made $11/hour and employees started at ~$7.50 so a $2 tip was a wonderful bump for the hour. Tips weren't generally shared since they never officially happened. We weren't setup for them because of tax purposes. Other fast food restaurants like Sonic rely on tips and are equipped to handle those kind of situations. Since then (2015) McDonald's raised their USA minimum to be $9 and likely more since I last checked. Source: I was a McDonald's employee for ~5 years, working my way up from an entry level position to eventually Asst. Store Manager at a Midwestern Franchise
    • amatecha 7y ago
      Interesting, yeah I pay by credit card so the $2 addition is definitely "on the books", unfortunately. I think each restaurant or chain has a different policy on how they disperse tips and I know some places do pool it (and I've def heard horror stories where the manager or owner keeps a huge chunk of the tips). But yeah I mean, everyone is valid and awesome and deserves to be treated right. Even if they make a mistake I only mention it if it's massive or repeated, and even then I don't want "a free meal", I just want to not have a key ingredient in my dish missing (or whatever) hahaha ;)
• partingshots 7y ago
  Universal basic income is far more comprehensive than raising the minimum wage, which selectively benefits only the people that manage to get the limited minimum wage jobs available.
• fancyfry 7y ago
  I'm apply to be one, because its a fairly mindless simple job, not many variables to handle so I wont have to think much at all. It will be a bit of exercise instead of being stuck on my backside in front of a computer all the time and I will get to interact with all sorts of people. I did a similar job when I was younger, was quite good at it. Sure the money sucks, but I've also experienced the other end of the scale, like writing a program which took a week to build earning me £10k in two hours and saving 3 months of coding for a major Charity. At least its paying money instead of spending money on games like Candy Crush and in a way its no different to some of these types of games so I'll still get my epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine buzz.
• jijji 7y ago
  the story of a 29-year old working in fast food sounds pretty disturbing. it sounds like a lack of planning more than anything. McDonalds is meant for kids in high school living with their parents. It's pretty disturbing that a 29-year old would have failed to plan for over 15 years wasting her time and working in a job meant for kids half her age. I would say she should start getting some real skills to get a higher paying, normal job, or better yet a career. Don't blame other people for your lack of planning or lack of skills. The internet has leveled the playing field and allows average people to get skills without ever leaving their home.
  • Friction87 7y ago
    ok boomer
    • dang 7y ago
      Please don't do this here.
      • paulcole 7y ago
        I think you meant to reply to this comment? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21719010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21719010
        • dang 7y ago
          Alas, HN gets more than one bad comment. If you see a post that ought to have been moderated but hasn't been, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. We don't come close to seeing everything that gets posted here, even in a single thread—nor do we read the threads sequentially. If you assume that the state in your head matches the state in ours, your judgments are going to be off base. Instead of making a false assumption and posting something snarky, you should just let us know in a straightforward way. hn@ycombinator.com is best for that, because we don't see everything in the threads (cf. previous paragraph) but we do see all the emails. It may take us a while though.
  • 7y ago
• whatever1 7y ago
  I think it should be mandatory for all of the students to work even for a short period of time in the services industry. They will gain perspective of how shitty customers can be or how shitty bosses can be. When they eventually get into their shoes, hopefully they will remember how it felt to be on the other side of the cashier’s counter / boss’ desk.
• gonational 7y ago
  I was born and raised just above dirt-poor, by American standards; e.g., lived in a poor area (now a full-fledged ghetto), we reused milk to each have a bowl of cereal with the same milk, we wore all hand-me-downs, any toys we had were hand-me-downs from church friends, nobody in my extended family had ever graduated high school, we never left the state once, we ate at restaurants a few times ever, etc. Both of my parents’ parents were absolutely dirt-poor and entirely uneducated. My maternal grandma couldn’t even read. I worked my fucking ass off as a teenager, starting at 13, making minimum wage for 2 years at various jobs; I slowly upgraded my job status to the point where I was earning almost 3 dollars an hour more than minimum-wage by the time I was 19, and I was proud of that at the time. Needless to say, I didn’t go to college (nobody paid for that and I certainly didn’t have the money). I became motivated by learning how much profit some of the customers I helped were making as entrepreneurs (always being nosy and asking questions, etc.), and I started a half-ass business at 22 years old. I made a little bit of money and learned some new skills burning the midnight oil till 3am for months, which translated into a sort of graphic design job, now making more money. I got acquainted with web design and web development just by reading stuff on the Internet and reading books, seriously burning the midnight oil. I worked my ass off nonstop and never stopped trying to learn more and more. Fast-forward 6 years and many hundreds of hours studying, and I was earning almost $200,000 a year as a software engineer. Nobody gave me anything. Minimum-wage was much lower, inflation adjusted, when I started out. I started out at a huge deficit with a poor family that was uneducated and did not steer me in any particular direction. Yet, I made it. The moral of my story is that all of the “adversity” that I experienced was exactly what made me successful. Earning minimum-wage is for people who are starting out for people who can’t make it past there. I certainly didn’t deserve more than minimum wage money earned it; but I’ll tell you what, I did deserve more when I got there, and I didn’t have to be thankful for it, because I earned it. Nobody deserves anything by default, not even clean water. Everybody has the freedom to make their own choices, including how to create a safe and clean society. It’s not the job of some government overlords to fix everything for us plebeians by passing laws. It’s our job. It’s our world, until we give it away to hucksters masquerading as our saviors. Listening to people on here whine like groveling animals about how they deserve this and deserve that, because life is expensive, like that’s somebody else’s job to fix for them... imagine trying to describe your woes to an Irish immigrant, who just came home from a 12 hour day at the same factory where he lost his finger a few months back; and you’re typing your message out to this laborer on your $1400 phone. Some people won’t make it; that’s OK. It sucks, but it’s how life has always been for every species since the beginning of life on Earth.
• soulofmischief 7y ago
  I’ve worked in the fast food industry for 14 years—about half my life Can someone give me an anecdotal example of how this could come to be without some fault in Brown's decision-making process? For starters, I've always heard that commute time is inversely proportional to career mobility. I made it a rule not to work anywhere farther than half an hour away. And that is the absolute maximum which was necessary when I lived rural area. Currently, I work remote, which has indeed provided more time for further career training. My mother has worked at the same minimum-wage food joint for almost eight years. She tells me it's because she's "comfortable" and friends with everyone there. Personally, I think it affords her the time and lack of responsibility needed in order to engage in non-moderated drug use. This was certainly the reason she was usually unemployed and unable to provide the most basic resources for me as a child. If I bring up this or her other time-sucking addictions such as mobile gaming / simulated gambling, she becomes very defensive. Regardless of the reason, comfort breeds complacency. Complacency leads to not making a meaningful change to your career trajectory in a 15-year period. As someone who grew up in relatively abject poverty, most of the positive things in my life have only come from within, due to my determination to succeed despite numerous setbacks. Sometimes I find myself having difficulty empathizing with people who seem reasonably intelligent but have been in the same situation for 10-20 years.
  • Tehdasi 7y ago
    Well see the just world theory says that if they have spent 10 years in a low wage job then they obviously have a character flaw that makes them unsuitable for any higher position in society so certainly we don't need to look at any other factors apart from that to know that we won't employ her for anything else. /s
  • astronautjones 7y ago
    > My mother has worked at the same minimum-wage food joint for almost eight years. She tells me it's because she's "comfortable" and friends with everyone there. Personally, I think it affords her the time and lack of responsibility needed in order to engage in non-moderated drug use. This was certainly the reason she was usually unemployed and unable to provide the most basic resources for me as a child. If I bring up this or her other time-sucking addictions such as mobile gaming / simulated gambling, she becomes very defensi a lot of society's problems come from people in power and/or wealth projecting their anecdotal, perhaps personally bitter experiences (like yours with your mother) onto everyone that isn't making a healthy wage. It's over 40 million people, we are not all like your mother.
• rdevsrex 7y ago
  Wow, it makes me realize how easy my first job (pharmacy assistant) was in comparison to food service. But one thing I don’t understand is why so many people have to live on their own before they have the skills and the job. Some of my Indian friends don’t leave home until they get married lol. As a parent now, I can’t imagine kicking my kid out at 18 and saying “go make it on your own making minimum wage”.
• dm319 7y ago
  The lack of empathy and understanding in so many comments here makes me slightly hopeless for mankind.
• stakhanov 7y ago
  ...so this is going to be unpopular and create some cognitive dissonance around here, but I'm firmly convinced that an economic system that will allow for the top earners to earn a lot (in international comparison) can only be enabled if the bottom earners earn little (in international comparison). In the United Arab Emirates, there are price-controls in place for certain low-level services. Like the price that a hair salon can charge for a haircut is price-controlled at a low price-level. This way they prevent a situation where a hair stylist can start accumulating wealth beyond their socially assigned (slave-like) status by becoming great at their craft, opening a premium hair salon and charging premium prices and accumulating wealth in the process. [Needless to say, craftsmanship is at a very low standard over there as a result]. -- The U.S. system is basically that, only not as blatant. It keeps down the underclass, because that's what's needed to enable the elites. That makes it sound cruel and cynical. But the opposite is also cruel and cynical. Take Austria as a counter-example which has very high per-head GDP and is at the same time one of the countries with the lowest Gini-coefficients in the world (low income-disparity). Your yearly increment in wealth post wealth-transfer like tax & government spending, social security, etc in Austria when you're a McDonald's cashier is probably three times what it is in the U.S. But for a highly qualified Software Engineer it's probably only a third of what it would be if they worked an equivalent job in the U.S. Imagine you earn a six-figure salary in the U.S. in a Software Engineering job and you move to Austria: You might well find yourself in a situation where your neighbor, who is a bricklayer, has a bigger house than you, drivers a nicer car, works less hours, etc because they get paid in cash and cheat on their taxes.
  • idiocratic 7y ago
    I'd much rather live in a country where disparity is not clear like in Austria than the US. And I'm a software engineer but that doesn't change how I think about social justice.
    • stakhanov 7y ago
      But government-mandated wealth-transfer is not "justice". "Justice" also entails the ability to earn a return if you make an investment rather than having the return taken away by the government. Scenario A: Your dad is a bricklayer and teaches you how to do bricklaying. You start taking jobs in the black economy, working at construction sites, getting paid in cash and not paying taxes. You start doing that when you're 14 (which is the earliest age you can legally quit school). By the time you're 30 you will have built your own house and paid it off. Scenario B: You're 28 years old when you graduate from university with a PhD but you still cannot expect a level of income higher than the bricklayer's. In Austria you wouldn't have student debts, as your university education would have been paid for by the government, so that's good. But your daddy would have had to pay for your living expenses until you were 28. So that's a lot of money. Also, you've just spent 14 years not earning anything, so that's opportunity cost. Maybe you worked very hard at university, working late, instead of going out with your friends, doing summer internships instead of going on holiday, etc. All of that is investment not only in financial terms, but also in terms of "life energy" (if that's a word). In Scenario B, as compared with A, there is no way you will ever be able to earn a return on that investment or recoup it in financial terms. You will never catch up with the level of wealth under Scenario A. It doesn't work for the individual, and it doesn't work for the country as a whole: This is an advanced economy, and it couldn't work if there weren't doctors, lawyers, bankers, software engineers etc. But people are disincentivized from wanting those jobs, because you can do far easier and less stressful jobs that will get you to the same or even higher levels of wealth.
• agumonkey 7y ago
  Methink her job is secondary, she doesn't seem to be lazy. Systems who doesn't help to avoid people getting under the bus are bad IMO. In another country, she'd have just a bit of support to get it easier healthwise and transportwise too.
• cixter 7y ago
  Coming from Norway, this article is horrendous. I can never understand the mentality that lies behind all of the arguments most you guys are presenting here - defending the employers shit salary and rights. You guys know that McDonalds manages to run in countries with decent wages as well, right? And that maybe a company with a yearly global profit of over 10 billion dollars might be able to afford giving their employees a livable wage. Hell, just the fact that it`s possible to have a full time job in the US, and still need food stamps should be a massive, red flag about your situation. But for some reason you prefer to (by extension) defend the extremely rich owners of these companies.
  • systemtest 7y ago
    I'm not from Norway but the Netherlands. If you have a fulltime job at McDonalds, the only way to live on that wage is with heavy subsidies from the government. You will need healthcare subsidy, rent subsidy, social housing, various municipal arrangements and perhaps even go to the "voedselbank" (food bank, free food charity). So while you can live on a McDonalds income, it's only because your fellow citizens are chipping in. Effectively we are subsidising McDonalds as they can now give you a lower income and get away with it. I'm not sure if that is the best way to go.
    • fock 7y ago
      Second that for Germany (though we are well known for our low-wage-sector allowing us to export a lot for a developed country). In addition a good lot of people working there are kids, which (like in most services) is quite an unfair competition for people having to earn their living wage with those jobs...
    • 2rsf 7y ago
      I checked and in Sweden a low level employee in McDonalds would earn 21930 sek (2300 dollars), or 17593 sek after taxes, which might be just enough to live from if you live outside of big cities.
    • apexalpha 7y ago
      Dutch here, too. While everyone below a certain income gets benefits like healthcare subsidy you can still live okay on a McDonalds salary. If you make €10 an hour you get €1600 a month. And at that level you pay almost no income tax. While not a lot, you don't necessarily need the foodbank or other subsidies than the regular ones to make ends meet.
• topologistics 7y ago
  >For the next four hours, I stand in one spot on a concrete floor working the tray line. It’s like a constant assembly line, putting food on trays for thousands of patients. I do milk, bread, butter, Ensure. Milk, bread, butter, Ensure. A tray goes by every few seconds. Milk, bread, butter, Ensure. If I'm slow, it backs up the line and it takes longer to finish. Standing in one place so long makes my feet and my legs hurt. I know when I get up tomorrow, I will wince when my feet touch the floor. People should not have to do things like this. It is clearly a robot's job. And if it weren't for the parasitic managerial class constantly collecting all of the unclaimed resources for themselves, we would praise automation for freeing people from such mundane painful existence. Automation should free up humans time so that they can do things that humans enjoy. The only reason that won't happen is that the people in charge of the system are evil and greedy.
• dennisgorelik 7y ago
  She is trying to shoot herself in the foot by supporting minimum wage limit increase. If minimum wage will go up to $15/hour -- her prospective employers will fire her, because it would be better to either automate her service away or just hire a more skillful worker.
• davidarcila 7y ago
  $9.50 an hour! I work as an interpreter from Colombia and I get paid $2.50