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I had a wake-up call when my Doctor said my Body Mass Index (BMI) was 29.7 (obese is 30). So I made a total lifestyle change to a 16/8 intermittent fast (16 ho

by icu 7y ago

I had a wake-up call when my Doctor said my Body Mass Index (BMI) was 29.7 (obese is 30). So I made a total lifestyle change to a 16/8 intermittent fast (16 hours water only, 8-hour feeding window), and a plant-based diet (basically vegan plus a fish once a week for Omegas). It was life-changing. I lost 22kg in two months, with no exercise. I am now back to a healthy BMI, but I no longer use BMI as a measure, I use the Relative Fat Mass Index (RFM) because my research indicates that this is a more accurate measure for tall people (I'm 6'3"). Besides looking great after shedding all that weight, I never expected the mental benefits to be so pronounced. Indeed it is fair to say it has had a nootropic effect. I no longer 'need' coffee, and the persistent brain fog has lifted and my default state is calm mental clarity. Of course, I can only speak from my own personal experience here... I haven't done extensive blood tests pre and post this lifestyle change, but the change has been so shocking that friends and family cannot believe it. You might think going 16 hours with no food is going to be hard but if you get the timings right, it's easy (and you get used to it). I start my fast at 8 pm, and I break the fast at noon. This way I can have business lunches and early-ish business dinners (as long as I finish eating by 8 pm). Most restaurants cater for vegans or at least have a vegetarian option. If not, I go for a fish option. When I break the fast I do it with an avocado/cucumber/kale/spinach smoothie which blasts my body with super nutrients. I avoid all processed carbs (no bread or pasta), I avoid all processed sugar (no cola or any refined sugar products), I avoid all dairy, and of course, avoid meat. Also, there is no calorie reduction... I eat as much as I like in my 8-hour feeding window (which controls Ghrelin and therefore doesn't mess up my metabolism). Always consult a medical professional before you do any drastic changes like what I've done, and do your own research on this stuff so you have the confidence that it's the right choice for you, and that you'll stick with it.

throwme49205 7y ago
Very glad to hear your positive experience. > Also, there is no calorie reduction Sure there is, that's why you lost so much weight. You just did it indirectly through this lifestyle change. > Most restaurants cater for vegans or at least have a vegetarian option...I avoid all processed carbs (no bread or pasta), I avoid all processed sugar. This can be a hard combo. Often the lone veg option is a sandwich (often breaded) or pasta in my experience. Obviously you can prioritize your needs and glad you do, just expressing how annoying the heavily constrained problem can be (I used to eat vegetarian).
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  > > Also, there is no calorie reduction > Sure there is, that's why you lost so much weight. It's important to appreciate there's more nuance than simply calories eaten vs. calories expended. Some calories are more bioavailable than others. The OP described eliminating refined carbs and sugars, and adding substantial sources of dietary fiber. The effect of this is switching from quickly absorbed (and likely stored) calories to slower to digest, less available sources. It's entirely possible for sugars locked up in a web of dietary fiber (i.e. fruit) to pass through the small colon and be consumed by bacteria in the large colon producing flatulence, or pass through entirely. If that same sugar was consumed in more accessible form, as with a cup of coffee, it would entirely be available to the person at a fast rate, accompanied by an insulin response making the energy likely to be stored as fat. Understanding this is key to appreciating how one could even increase their oral caloric consumption and still be losing weight, all else the same. Just because it goes down the hatch doesn't mean 100% of those calories reach the bloodstream. What you eat matters a great deal, both in terms of availability and hormonal response.
  - throwme49205 7y ago
    The difference between the calorie ratings of foods and the actual energy a person gets out of that food is sharpening the pencil far too much for someone who lost 50lb in a couple of months. The drastic caloric reduction is first order.
thomk 7y ago
You lost 22kg in exactly 2 months doing this?
- jknoepfler 7y ago
  Having lost a similar amount of weight in 3 months by switching to keto (pretty much the opposite diet from OP, but similar IF schedule) I'm not surprised. If I'm being totally honest I attribute most of the gains in weight and mental clarity to reduced drinking, particularly before bed. Also apparently the occasional basket of french fries / onion rings was really adding up. In my case I dropped from 102 kg -> 79kg. I'm tall and naturally very slender, but I'd gained a lot of weight while working at Amazon. I also attribute the change to quitting a high-stress job, thereby removing a lot of "stress eating / drinking" in addition to using a rigid rule (NO CARBS) to avoid most of the fried garbage I'd binge on. I'm not that surprised - I was eating and drinking like it was my job to gain weight and keep it on, then I stopped.
  - spease 7y ago
    I’ve been favoring fish, protein, and veggies for some time, and trying to prefer lean meat, and I’m surprised at how flabby just one greasy meal or large soft drink will make me feel. I can’t really explain it, but it’s like once my body became accustomed to the current diet, I can now feel when I deviate from it. Still haven’t found any evidence for what I’m feeling though.
- icu 7y ago
  Yes, 100%! No word of a lie.
  - Engineering-MD 7y ago
    At 7,500 calories per kg you would therefore lose 82,500 calories in one month to lose 11kg. Assuming a generous 31 day month this is 2,661 calories per day. Therefore the required caloric deficit for the day is larger than the total calorie intake meaning no calories would have to consumed to achieve this weight loss. So how could this have been achieved? It could partly be inaccuracies in weighing, difference in body weight from food contents in digestive tract, water contents etc. The alternative is an increased energy expenditure which could partly account for it. Of note, generally consuming less than 1200 calories a day regularly is thought to be harmful on the basis that it is difficult to get minimum necessary nutrients in this time. If I have made a mistake in my calculations, someone let me know.
glormph 7y ago
Not that I know much about fasting, but by fasting you mean you skip breakfast, eat healthy and that's it? That sounds like a lot lower hanging fruit than I thought it'd be, thanks!
- throwme49205 7y ago
  16/8 IF basically means 'skip breakfast, no nighttime snacking' in practice for most folks. For many people, nighttime snacking is a big chunk of their intake.
  - copperx 7y ago
    If you go to sleep at midnight, it means "skip breakfast, skip lunch, have your first meal when you get out of work." It has the added benefit of skipping lunch time and getting out of work at 4pm.
- icu 7y ago
  Yeah, lol... you aren't wrong. There is a little more to that though. My research into this indicated that the benefits of autophagy start at the 16-hour mark, so you really need to make sure your fast is at least 16-hours long. Also 'eating healthy' can mean a lot of different things to different people. My research indicated that a plant-based diet was the way to go. In a way, it is more about the elimination of things (alcohol, meat, dairy, processed carbs, processed sugar). The first week was hard, but then after that, it got easy. Also the first week I lost 2kg so I knew I was on to something.
damontal 7y ago
How much of this do you attribute to fasting vs diet change. I’ve done 16:8 fasting with no diet change and didn’t experience this kind of dramatic result.
- icu 7y ago
  I don't know; I did forget to add that I cut out all alcohol as well. Maybe doing both 16/8 fasting and eating super clean, super healthy, was synergistic?
  - jghn 7y ago
    There's a reasonable chance that cutting out the alcohol was responsible for a huge chunk of the changes you experienced. At best, it's an extremely confounding factor
    - icu 7y ago
      Thing is I don't drink that often. Maybe two or three times a month, and not heavy drinking either... just a few pints after a Meetup or a glass of wine with a restaurant meal.
  - brohee 7y ago
    Cutting alcohol is likely responsible for a pretty large calorie reduction, a pint of beer is ~200 Kcalories...
ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago
Yes, this, I do 16/8 5-6 days every week and I have been able to keep my weight under control for 2 years now, even when I'm eating carbs. I also keep sugar and simple carbs to a minimum, but I always did that. It's a glorious method.
gbrits 7y ago
I follow everything else but what's the health benefit of avoiding meat?
- sulam 7y ago
  I wouldn't say there's benefit to _avoiding_ meat, but if you're going to restrict your diet in some way, trading meat calories for veggie calories is a good move. The typical US diet is missing a LOT of fiber, not to mention the nutrients that are in plants that you won't get from meat. Meat is so dense, calorie-wise, that you can help yourself out a lot by trading meat for veggies on a selective basis. This is without having any intentions of becoming vegetarian.
  - nwah1 7y ago
    Also, fiber makes you feel full, and slows down and improves digestion. So a high fiber diet would make it easier to eat less. There are some important "carninutrients" that are in animal products, like vitamin B12 or taurine or carnitine. But you can find them in supplements and energy drinks. But there's also a lot of downsides to meat. If you don't cook meat properly, you are at risk for salmonella or e coli, and other horrible pathogens. But if you do cook meat, there are all manner of carcinogenic chemicals that are formed, such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, heterocyclic amines, and advanced glycation endproducts. Meat also often contains antibiotics, natural and artificial estrogens, nitrosamines, and high densities of bioaccumulated pesticides. And traditional corn-fed animal products contain an imbalanced ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids, and other possibly less-optimal levels of nutrients like CLA.
- jokoon 7y ago
  to add on other comments: correlation between colon cancer and red meat
bluedevil2k 7y ago
There’s nothing wrong with eating chicken and other lean meats on a daily basis, and based on the summary of your daily eating, you could probably benefit from the complete amino acids the meat gives you.
- icu 7y ago
  Sure, do whatever is right for you. My research into the meat industry indicated that I was actually consuming a lot of stuff along with the meat that just isn't good for you. Sure you can go fully organic, free-range etc, but the meat we eat today is nothing like when we were hunter-gatherers. In those times we ate wild animals that lived free and healthy. As far as I can tell, it is impossible to get that level quality of meat at your local supermarket.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    Elsewhere you said you occasionally eat fish for the omega fatty acids, what kind of fish? There's been a number of reports describing farmed fish as some of the most toxic food sources on the planet. It's definitely changed my attitude towards defaulting to a fish option at restaurants where its provenance is unknown or at best ambiguous. My goto has become canned wild sardines in water, consumed similarly for omegas in an otherwise mostly plant-based paleo-like diet.
    - icu 7y ago
      My prio list is as follows: Salmon > mackerel > sardines > herring > trout. I love salmon, but any of the above will do. I also switch it up for variety. Honourable mention is shrimp, which only has 1/4 the Omega of salmon, but is usually the easy option at BBQs (and avoids the annoying conversations about how not eating meat isn't manly). I make sure I go for wild fish, and also buy it fresh (never in packaging unless I'm absolutely desperate).
- andy_ppp 7y ago
  Apart from the environmental impacts right?
milch 7y ago
No offense but > I avoid all processed sugar (no cola or any refined sugar products), I avoid all dairy, and of course, avoid meat. Sounds like it has a lot more to do with your results than > So I made a total lifestyle change to a 16/8 intermittent fast (16 hours water only, 8-hour feeding window) Also, if you were counting your calories before and after this transition, you likely missed or underestimated the calories before. I do the same 16/8 window (never been a breakfast person anyways) and have no problem maintaining my weight at about 2.5k calories a day
- jddj 7y ago
  I'm in the same boat. I don't stick to it extremely strictly, and the window moves around a bit but generally I follow 16/8 too and haven't noticed much of change in body fat (but I don't carry much anyway). The reason I stuck with it was that, as someone who wasn't ever a breakfast person either, I don't have the stomach discomfort / bloating anymore which a carb-heavy breakfast would give me. For me the nicest part about IF becoming trendy is that I don't feel that slight pang of guilt anymore which I used to feel when skipping breakfast.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  it's probably slightly coupled though, avoiding cravings put your mind into a different consumption mode. When you didn't eat for that long, you won't go for a chocolate bar, you'll aim at actual proteins.
- icu 7y ago
  No offence taken :-) I'm not a professional, and I didn't track anything except my body measurements and weight during this process so I don't know exactly where all the results came from. I wasn't chugging bottles of Coca-Cola, but I was having processed sugar in my multiple cups of coffee every day. As for calorie counting, my research indicated that calorie counting is a myth (see The Obesity Code by Dr. Jason Fung). Certainly, I always struggled with a calorie-restricted diet, so I knew that if I always felt hungry, anything I did wouldn't work. I know it sounds odd but during the 16 hours I am fasting, I just don't feel that hungry. If I feel a little hungry I just drink some water and I feel fine. I think the key was satisfying the ghrelin by eating as much as I liked during my 8-hour feeding window. I know it sounds crazy that you can eat as much as you like and still loose weight but it happened.
matwood 7y ago
IF is great, and it's something that doesn't take that long to get used to (I'm rarely hungry). I follow a similar fasting time period 12-8 or 9 depending on my schedule that day. I workout everyday when I wake up (and sometimes again at night) and always have plenty of energy. I'm also not very strict on my diet other than mostly avoiding sugar. I lean towards meat and veggies with every meal, but am not militant about passing up a good tasting carb. I ended up losing ~15 pounds over 9 months w/o weight loss even being the goal. Peter Attia has discussed fasting for cancer patients (and pre-surgery) on his podcast multiple times. He posited that it could have positive effects on patients, but understands how long it takes existing dogma to shift. It's great news this study was done and will hopefully lead to more research.
- fauigerzigerk 7y ago
  >I workout everyday when I wake up I read that you shouldn't put too much strain/weight on joints within an hour of getting up in the morning, because there is more liquid in the joints. I didn't do any research on it because I don't work out in the morning anyway, so this may well be complete bullshit. Just mentioning it in case you want to get to the bottom of it.
  - matwood 7y ago
    I've read that too. That the soft tissue around the joints fills with fluid while sleeping and it takes time to get back to normal. During this time it is supposedly easier to get injured. I've worked around this a few ways. One, it takes 10 minutes to get the the gym. I also have to get up, brush my teeth, put clothes on, etc... Second, when I do any workout, I warm up. Walk on the treadmill, then some stretching, and finally warm up to the weight I'm going to use. I've never had an issue, except now that I'm older it can take longer to get going :)
spodek 7y ago
> I never expected the mental benefits to be so pronounced. Indeed it is fair to say it has had a nootropic effect. People can define normal how they want, but if you were eating lots of refined products, I suggest considering the way you are now as normal and that those products were making you sick. I had to look up nootropic. To say fruits and vegetables act like "drugs, supplements, and other substances that may improve cognitive function, particularly executive functions, memory, creativity, or motivation, in healthy individuals" (quoting Wikipedia) suggests how much those products hurt you. Maybe I'm a minority, but I don't consider fruits and vegetables drugs or supplements. I don't consider my memory and cognitive skills when I eat them enhanced. That's regular life. It sounds like life before was suffering and I don't know how else to say the opposite of "improved cognition function" other than dumber. Glad to see you post-change. Were the refined products worth it?
- icu 7y ago
  You make a good point about "considering the way you are now as normal and that those products were making you sick." That is exactly how I think now, but if you grow up where it is the norm to eat a high-sugar, processed food, meat-based diet, you think this is the norm. As for your question about refined products worth it... no, I don't think they are. I only go off script for say a birthday party or a social situation where it is impossible to stay within my self imposed dietary constraints.
graeme 7y ago
>I am now back to a healthy BMI, but I no longer use BMI as a measure, I use the Relative Fat Mass Index (RFM) because my research indicates that this is a more accurate measure for tall people (I'm 6'3"). This uses waist circumference, which is an excellent measure. I wish it were emphasized more: it's easy to do, and is a great complement to weight. Abdominal size is a great indicator of fat + correlated to many health problems. One question: what scale does RFM use? I found the formula, and got a number, but I don't know what it means. Is it body fat percent? ---------- I've been tracking waist and weight circumference each morning. I wrote a Shortcut that uses those measures to calculate body fat percentage and lean mass using the US navy formula, and log everything to apple health. It's really sped up my fitness improvement, as I'm focussing on keeping lean mass UP, and waist circumferencn DOWN.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFI
randycupertino 7y ago
> avocado/cucumber/kale/spinach smoothie This sounds interesting! Would you mind posting the specifics of how you make this? what else goes in it? Protein powder? Ice cubes? etc? I have been enjoying smoothies but noticed I was inadvertently making them calorie-bombs by adding a lot of random stuff (chia, flax, avocados, honey) without thinking and wasn't losing any weight. So now I am a lot more conscientious about what I dump in there and portion everything out. Yours sounds interesting!
- icu 7y ago
  Put the following into a bender: * Half a cucumber (skin on) freshly juiced * A chunk of skinned ginger freshly juiced (about 4cm^3) * One tablespoon of chia seeds (freshly milled if possible) * One tablespoon of apple cider vinegar * One juiced lime * One avocado (skinned and pitted) * A large handful of rinsed kale * A large handful of rinsed spinach * Approximately 150ml of coconut water Blend this up and consume. Initially, I also juiced an apple for sweetness but now I don't need it anymore.
  - randycupertino 7y ago
    Cool; thanks for the reply and the details... added to the grocery list, will try this week! Cheers :)
  - randycupertino 7y ago
    PS- have you calculated the calories in this? If not, I'll add it up in MyFitnessPal but thought you might know if you're making it often. Cheers and thnx again.
    - icu 7y ago
      Sorry I have no idea of the calorie content. It seems like a hot topic in the discussion is calorie counting, but I never did it. I just ate whenever I felt like it, until I was full, during my 8-hour feeding window. Perhaps I was consuming fewer calories because I was eating healthy. Perhaps I wasn't, but my body was excreting them out. No idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Draiken 7y ago
I wish I had the mental strength to forego one of the few pleasures of life without looking back. It's amazing to me how someone can (almost) exclusively eat vegetables and enjoy it. Is it all about habits? Genes? Everyone says that taste is unique for each individual. For me, no amount of good seasoning on a vegetable will ever beat the taste of a steak. I cannot even fathom doing that FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. I guess if I had no option other than dying, that would change my priorities. But aside from that, it feels like you're trading so much to look a little bit better (I know everyone says it's always about health, but let's face it, that's not true a lot of times).
- tidepod12 7y ago
  Speaking personally, it's very easy to me to be able to completely separate the thought of food from having to be enjoyable. I don't drink water because it tastes good, I drink water because I know I need to drink water. I don't eat a plain sandwich at lunch because it tastes good, I eat that sandwich at lunch because I am hungry and know I need to eat. I don't need my food to taste good for me to eat it. If that has to do with habits or genes, I have no idea. And that doesn't mean I don't get enjoyment from eating. I certainly enjoy an occasional nice steak or a few slices of cake every now and then, but I don't eat meat every meal despite it tasting enjoyable, just like I imagine you don't eat cake every meal despite it tasting wonderful,
- artimaeis 7y ago
  From my perspective it's about balance. I was completely vegan for about 2 years, and now I'd call myself a mostly-vegetarian. I'm not dogmatic about it, I just think that if we eat less meat it's probably better -- for us, for the environment, and for the horrible treatment of most factory-farmed animals. Back to what I was saying about balance -- you're right: steak is fairly tasty, but so are lots of other things that I probably don't need to eat all that often. If I ate exclusively things that are as tasty as possible I'd enjoy them less. So now if I'm in a special situation I'll maybe order something with some meat -- but it's the exception rather than the rule.
- icu 7y ago
  I found that my body started to crave vegetables. It is really weird because I used to get sugar cravings, and now my body has completely flipped to vegetable cravings! My experience is that I felt more in tune with my body, and I could 'hear' what it wants, or doesn't like. Another thing I didn't put into the original post is that I struggled with a blocked/stuffy nose since I was a little kid. Two weeks into my diet change, the life-long symptoms were gone (and continue to be gone). "I can now breathe through my nose" might not seem very miraculous to most people, but it is to me. Having had a life-long diet of meat and processed food, I don't really miss it so much as I now actually love healthy food and I can 'smell the roses'.
jokoon 7y ago
> Always consult a medical professional before you do any drastic changes like what I've done, and do your own research on this stuff so you have the confidence that it's the right choice for you, and that you'll stick with it. Intermittent fasting is not drastic. Of course don't do it if you're too skinny, drink water, avoid physical activity when you're fasting... The best is to ask a doctor, but intermittent fasting is easy, not really risky and will yield good results.
- tidepod12 7y ago
  Going from a normal eating schedule to not eating anything 16 hours a day can have a drastic (yes, drastic) affect on your blood sugar, hormone levels, blood pressure, and more. It is absolutely a drastic change. It will most likely be fine for most people, but could be very dangerous (ie death) for someone that is, for example, diabetic or is taking medicines for mental stability.
ordinaryperson 7y ago
Glad you lost weight but kale smoothies and fasting are not magic--it's just reduced caloric intake conferring most of the benefits you're seeing. The biggest problem people have is overeating, bottom line. I honestly have several strict vegan friends who are obese -- at the end of the day a calorie is a calorie. My only issue when people recount stories like yours, as inspiring as they are, is they associate non-scientifically-provable properties to their eating. As if fasting or kale give you more energy (they don't). Or carbs are automatically evil by themselves and cause weight gain (also wrong). There is no such thing as "super nutrients" -- there are only nutrients. It's like when people talk about going on a "cleanse" from "toxins" in their body, it's just nonsense. I wish high schools would teach everyone how to track their calories, it's a super useful skill that would help many in understanding how much a penalty there is in eating those Five Guys fries. But "I lost weight from [insert special diet here] wow now I have [amazing qualities]" just exaggerates the basic underlying process of reducing caloric intake. And for the record I'm 6'2" & 168 lbs / 76 kg with 5% body fat (measured via calipers), training for multiple athletic events, so I'm not saying this as someone who struggles with following strict diets.
- icu 7y ago
  Sure, but honestly from where I'm sitting, it feels like magic. I'm sure the result can be completely explained with science but I'm not going to sit down and work it all out. I just care that I'm a healthy weight again and that I found a method of healthy living that I can stick to.
  - ordinaryperson 7y ago
    And that's great. It's inspiring to lose weight and be healthier. Not trying to take anything away from what you accomplished, just trying to sort out where the health benefits are coming from: it's weight loss. From reduced caloric intake. Personally, I like fasting. In an era when food is available 24/7 I think it helps teach self-discipline and clearly reduces the likelihood one will overeat. I also like vegetable-heavy diets. Clearly good for you. But to say kale smoothies have "super nutrients" is not scientific. While it's tempting to confer special properties on the foods which have helped transform your life, most likely these are just methods to reducing over-eating. Congrats again.
furyofantares 7y ago
How long ago was this? In any thread on these topics I feel that there will be a number of people reporting their relatively recent smashing success with some method. I’ve had multiple smashing successes myself, lasting over a year, but have always eventually slid back — and then never replicated the success despite lots of effort using the same method. It hasn’t been until I switched to something different that I’ve found success again. It’s like the body eventually learns both physical and psychological tricks to accumulate energy under any regime.
- jorda0mega 7y ago
  you should check out this talk to understand why that's the case and it might be different with fasting https://youtu.be/7nJgHBbEgsE https://youtu.be/7nJgHBbEgsE
- icu 7y ago
  I started on, or around 27/05/2019. I say that because I think I actually started a day or two before, but I can't remember now.
- valiant-comma 7y ago
  To stick, it does need to be a lifestyle change. If our diet and exercise (etc.) cause our health to degrade over the long term, then we probably need to change our habits in a way that avoids that. That is, normal for us should be what provides continued health, rather than something we have to “fix” now and again with special diets. Also, I’m not the person you asked, but to answer your specific question, I changed my lifestyle about five years ago, and — although I needed to make adjustments based on whether I was looking to lose weight or gain muscle or whatever — the overall idea going in was that this would be permanent. And that’s worked for me.
techrich 7y ago
what sites and books did you read?
GeekyBear 7y ago
I have found that getting rid of the sugar and refined carbs from my diet is an effective way to lose weight and keep that weight off (for over a decade now). I've made no effort to exercise more, control portions or avoid fat and dairy. I did switch over to cooking all my meals from scratch.
swsieber 7y ago
> Also, there is no calorie reduction... I eat as much as I like in my 8-hour feeding window Maybe no deliberate calorie reduction, but I'd bet you you're consuming less calories.
notus 7y ago
Cool story, but this has nothing to do with the article.
PerfectElement 7y ago
Bioaccumulation is a big issue with fish. Have you tried getting omegas from algae supplements?
- icu 7y ago
  Exactly, that is why I limit the fish to only once per week. As for Omega replacement, chia seeds are high in Omega-3 fatty acids (as well as other good stuff), but I haven't looked at algae supplements. It really is an area I need to do more research on.
stjohnswarts 7y ago
I've had a similar experience but with low carb. I eat two meals, one extremely low carb, and one "normal" meal for lunch and dinner and do the 16/8 plan. Have dropped 42lbs in 4 months. I have much better mental clarity and more energy, and cut way back on caffeine as a result. I could never do a vegan diet because it goes against my personal research as to what humans should be eating, but I think that IF can be used for any reasonable diet (caloric restriction) plan.
asdkhadsj 7y ago
Your coffee / awake levels have me interesting. How much coffee do you find wanting?

by icu 7y ago

throwme49205 7y ago

Very glad to hear your positive experience. > Also, there is no calorie reduction Sure there is, that's why you lost so much weight. You just did it indirectly through this lifestyle change. > Most restaurants cater for vegans or at least have a vegetarian option...I avoid all processed carbs (no bread or pasta), I avoid all processed sugar. This can be a hard combo. Often the lone veg option is a sandwich (often breaded) or pasta in my experience. Obviously you can prioritize your needs and glad you do, just expressing how annoying the heavily constrained problem can be (I used to eat vegetarian).

newnewpdro 7y ago
> > Also, there is no calorie reduction > Sure there is, that's why you lost so much weight. It's important to appreciate there's more nuance than simply calories eaten vs. calories expended. Some calories are more bioavailable than others. The OP described eliminating refined carbs and sugars, and adding substantial sources of dietary fiber. The effect of this is switching from quickly absorbed (and likely stored) calories to slower to digest, less available sources. It's entirely possible for sugars locked up in a web of dietary fiber (i.e. fruit) to pass through the small colon and be consumed by bacteria in the large colon producing flatulence, or pass through entirely. If that same sugar was consumed in more accessible form, as with a cup of coffee, it would entirely be available to the person at a fast rate, accompanied by an insulin response making the energy likely to be stored as fat. Understanding this is key to appreciating how one could even increase their oral caloric consumption and still be losing weight, all else the same. Just because it goes down the hatch doesn't mean 100% of those calories reach the bloodstream. What you eat matters a great deal, both in terms of availability and hormonal response.
- throwme49205 7y ago
  The difference between the calorie ratings of foods and the actual energy a person gets out of that food is sharpening the pencil far too much for someone who lost 50lb in a couple of months. The drastic caloric reduction is first order.

thomk 7y ago

You lost 22kg in exactly 2 months doing this?

jknoepfler 7y ago
Having lost a similar amount of weight in 3 months by switching to keto (pretty much the opposite diet from OP, but similar IF schedule) I'm not surprised. If I'm being totally honest I attribute most of the gains in weight and mental clarity to reduced drinking, particularly before bed. Also apparently the occasional basket of french fries / onion rings was really adding up. In my case I dropped from 102 kg -> 79kg. I'm tall and naturally very slender, but I'd gained a lot of weight while working at Amazon. I also attribute the change to quitting a high-stress job, thereby removing a lot of "stress eating / drinking" in addition to using a rigid rule (NO CARBS) to avoid most of the fried garbage I'd binge on. I'm not that surprised - I was eating and drinking like it was my job to gain weight and keep it on, then I stopped.
- spease 7y ago
  I’ve been favoring fish, protein, and veggies for some time, and trying to prefer lean meat, and I’m surprised at how flabby just one greasy meal or large soft drink will make me feel. I can’t really explain it, but it’s like once my body became accustomed to the current diet, I can now feel when I deviate from it. Still haven’t found any evidence for what I’m feeling though.
icu 7y ago
Yes, 100%! No word of a lie.
- Engineering-MD 7y ago
  At 7,500 calories per kg you would therefore lose 82,500 calories in one month to lose 11kg. Assuming a generous 31 day month this is 2,661 calories per day. Therefore the required caloric deficit for the day is larger than the total calorie intake meaning no calories would have to consumed to achieve this weight loss. So how could this have been achieved? It could partly be inaccuracies in weighing, difference in body weight from food contents in digestive tract, water contents etc. The alternative is an increased energy expenditure which could partly account for it. Of note, generally consuming less than 1200 calories a day regularly is thought to be harmful on the basis that it is difficult to get minimum necessary nutrients in this time. If I have made a mistake in my calculations, someone let me know.

glormph 7y ago

Not that I know much about fasting, but by fasting you mean you skip breakfast, eat healthy and that's it? That sounds like a lot lower hanging fruit than I thought it'd be, thanks!

throwme49205 7y ago
16/8 IF basically means 'skip breakfast, no nighttime snacking' in practice for most folks. For many people, nighttime snacking is a big chunk of their intake.
- copperx 7y ago
  If you go to sleep at midnight, it means "skip breakfast, skip lunch, have your first meal when you get out of work." It has the added benefit of skipping lunch time and getting out of work at 4pm.
icu 7y ago
Yeah, lol... you aren't wrong. There is a little more to that though. My research into this indicated that the benefits of autophagy start at the 16-hour mark, so you really need to make sure your fast is at least 16-hours long. Also 'eating healthy' can mean a lot of different things to different people. My research indicated that a plant-based diet was the way to go. In a way, it is more about the elimination of things (alcohol, meat, dairy, processed carbs, processed sugar). The first week was hard, but then after that, it got easy. Also the first week I lost 2kg so I knew I was on to something.

damontal 7y ago

How much of this do you attribute to fasting vs diet change. I’ve done 16:8 fasting with no diet change and didn’t experience this kind of dramatic result.

icu 7y ago
I don't know; I did forget to add that I cut out all alcohol as well. Maybe doing both 16/8 fasting and eating super clean, super healthy, was synergistic?
- jghn 7y ago
  There's a reasonable chance that cutting out the alcohol was responsible for a huge chunk of the changes you experienced. At best, it's an extremely confounding factor
  - icu 7y ago
    Thing is I don't drink that often. Maybe two or three times a month, and not heavy drinking either... just a few pints after a Meetup or a glass of wine with a restaurant meal.
- brohee 7y ago
  Cutting alcohol is likely responsible for a pretty large calorie reduction, a pint of beer is ~200 Kcalories...

ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago

Yes, this, I do 16/8 5-6 days every week and I have been able to keep my weight under control for 2 years now, even when I'm eating carbs. I also keep sugar and simple carbs to a minimum, but I always did that. It's a glorious method.

gbrits 7y ago

I follow everything else but what's the health benefit of avoiding meat?

sulam 7y ago
I wouldn't say there's benefit to _avoiding_ meat, but if you're going to restrict your diet in some way, trading meat calories for veggie calories is a good move. The typical US diet is missing a LOT of fiber, not to mention the nutrients that are in plants that you won't get from meat. Meat is so dense, calorie-wise, that you can help yourself out a lot by trading meat for veggies on a selective basis. This is without having any intentions of becoming vegetarian.
- nwah1 7y ago
  Also, fiber makes you feel full, and slows down and improves digestion. So a high fiber diet would make it easier to eat less. There are some important "carninutrients" that are in animal products, like vitamin B12 or taurine or carnitine. But you can find them in supplements and energy drinks. But there's also a lot of downsides to meat. If you don't cook meat properly, you are at risk for salmonella or e coli, and other horrible pathogens. But if you do cook meat, there are all manner of carcinogenic chemicals that are formed, such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, heterocyclic amines, and advanced glycation endproducts. Meat also often contains antibiotics, natural and artificial estrogens, nitrosamines, and high densities of bioaccumulated pesticides. And traditional corn-fed animal products contain an imbalanced ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids, and other possibly less-optimal levels of nutrients like CLA.
jokoon 7y ago
to add on other comments: correlation between colon cancer and red meat

bluedevil2k 7y ago

There’s nothing wrong with eating chicken and other lean meats on a daily basis, and based on the summary of your daily eating, you could probably benefit from the complete amino acids the meat gives you.

icu 7y ago
Sure, do whatever is right for you. My research into the meat industry indicated that I was actually consuming a lot of stuff along with the meat that just isn't good for you. Sure you can go fully organic, free-range etc, but the meat we eat today is nothing like when we were hunter-gatherers. In those times we ate wild animals that lived free and healthy. As far as I can tell, it is impossible to get that level quality of meat at your local supermarket.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  Elsewhere you said you occasionally eat fish for the omega fatty acids, what kind of fish? There's been a number of reports describing farmed fish as some of the most toxic food sources on the planet. It's definitely changed my attitude towards defaulting to a fish option at restaurants where its provenance is unknown or at best ambiguous. My goto has become canned wild sardines in water, consumed similarly for omegas in an otherwise mostly plant-based paleo-like diet.
  - icu 7y ago
    My prio list is as follows: Salmon > mackerel > sardines > herring > trout. I love salmon, but any of the above will do. I also switch it up for variety. Honourable mention is shrimp, which only has 1/4 the Omega of salmon, but is usually the easy option at BBQs (and avoids the annoying conversations about how not eating meat isn't manly). I make sure I go for wild fish, and also buy it fresh (never in packaging unless I'm absolutely desperate).
andy_ppp 7y ago
Apart from the environmental impacts right?

milch 7y ago

No offense but > I avoid all processed sugar (no cola or any refined sugar products), I avoid all dairy, and of course, avoid meat. Sounds like it has a lot more to do with your results than > So I made a total lifestyle change to a 16/8 intermittent fast (16 hours water only, 8-hour feeding window) Also, if you were counting your calories before and after this transition, you likely missed or underestimated the calories before. I do the same 16/8 window (never been a breakfast person anyways) and have no problem maintaining my weight at about 2.5k calories a day

jddj 7y ago
I'm in the same boat. I don't stick to it extremely strictly, and the window moves around a bit but generally I follow 16/8 too and haven't noticed much of change in body fat (but I don't carry much anyway). The reason I stuck with it was that, as someone who wasn't ever a breakfast person either, I don't have the stomach discomfort / bloating anymore which a carb-heavy breakfast would give me. For me the nicest part about IF becoming trendy is that I don't feel that slight pang of guilt anymore which I used to feel when skipping breakfast.
agumonkey 7y ago
it's probably slightly coupled though, avoiding cravings put your mind into a different consumption mode. When you didn't eat for that long, you won't go for a chocolate bar, you'll aim at actual proteins.
icu 7y ago
No offence taken :-) I'm not a professional, and I didn't track anything except my body measurements and weight during this process so I don't know exactly where all the results came from. I wasn't chugging bottles of Coca-Cola, but I was having processed sugar in my multiple cups of coffee every day. As for calorie counting, my research indicated that calorie counting is a myth (see The Obesity Code by Dr. Jason Fung). Certainly, I always struggled with a calorie-restricted diet, so I knew that if I always felt hungry, anything I did wouldn't work. I know it sounds odd but during the 16 hours I am fasting, I just don't feel that hungry. If I feel a little hungry I just drink some water and I feel fine. I think the key was satisfying the ghrelin by eating as much as I liked during my 8-hour feeding window. I know it sounds crazy that you can eat as much as you like and still loose weight but it happened.

matwood 7y ago

IF is great, and it's something that doesn't take that long to get used to (I'm rarely hungry). I follow a similar fasting time period 12-8 or 9 depending on my schedule that day. I workout everyday when I wake up (and sometimes again at night) and always have plenty of energy. I'm also not very strict on my diet other than mostly avoiding sugar. I lean towards meat and veggies with every meal, but am not militant about passing up a good tasting carb. I ended up losing ~15 pounds over 9 months w/o weight loss even being the goal. Peter Attia has discussed fasting for cancer patients (and pre-surgery) on his podcast multiple times. He posited that it could have positive effects on patients, but understands how long it takes existing dogma to shift. It's great news this study was done and will hopefully lead to more research.

fauigerzigerk 7y ago
>I workout everyday when I wake up I read that you shouldn't put too much strain/weight on joints within an hour of getting up in the morning, because there is more liquid in the joints. I didn't do any research on it because I don't work out in the morning anyway, so this may well be complete bullshit. Just mentioning it in case you want to get to the bottom of it.
- matwood 7y ago
  I've read that too. That the soft tissue around the joints fills with fluid while sleeping and it takes time to get back to normal. During this time it is supposedly easier to get injured. I've worked around this a few ways. One, it takes 10 minutes to get the the gym. I also have to get up, brush my teeth, put clothes on, etc... Second, when I do any workout, I warm up. Walk on the treadmill, then some stretching, and finally warm up to the weight I'm going to use. I've never had an issue, except now that I'm older it can take longer to get going :)

spodek 7y ago

> I never expected the mental benefits to be so pronounced. Indeed it is fair to say it has had a nootropic effect. People can define normal how they want, but if you were eating lots of refined products, I suggest considering the way you are now as normal and that those products were making you sick. I had to look up nootropic. To say fruits and vegetables act like "drugs, supplements, and other substances that may improve cognitive function, particularly executive functions, memory, creativity, or motivation, in healthy individuals" (quoting Wikipedia) suggests how much those products hurt you. Maybe I'm a minority, but I don't consider fruits and vegetables drugs or supplements. I don't consider my memory and cognitive skills when I eat them enhanced. That's regular life. It sounds like life before was suffering and I don't know how else to say the opposite of "improved cognition function" other than dumber. Glad to see you post-change. Were the refined products worth it?

icu 7y ago
You make a good point about "considering the way you are now as normal and that those products were making you sick." That is exactly how I think now, but if you grow up where it is the norm to eat a high-sugar, processed food, meat-based diet, you think this is the norm. As for your question about refined products worth it... no, I don't think they are. I only go off script for say a birthday party or a social situation where it is impossible to stay within my self imposed dietary constraints.

graeme 7y ago

>I am now back to a healthy BMI, but I no longer use BMI as a measure, I use the Relative Fat Mass Index (RFM) because my research indicates that this is a more accurate measure for tall people (I'm 6'3"). This uses waist circumference, which is an excellent measure. I wish it were emphasized more: it's easy to do, and is a great complement to weight. Abdominal size is a great indicator of fat + correlated to many health problems. One question: what scale does RFM use? I found the formula, and got a number, but I don't know what it means. Is it body fat percent? ---------- I've been tracking waist and weight circumference each morning. I wrote a Shortcut that uses those measures to calculate body fat percentage and lean mass using the US navy formula, and log everything to apple health. It's really sped up my fitness improvement, as I'm focussing on keeping lean mass UP, and waist circumferencn DOWN.

newnewpdro 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFI

randycupertino 7y ago

> avocado/cucumber/kale/spinach smoothie This sounds interesting! Would you mind posting the specifics of how you make this? what else goes in it? Protein powder? Ice cubes? etc? I have been enjoying smoothies but noticed I was inadvertently making them calorie-bombs by adding a lot of random stuff (chia, flax, avocados, honey) without thinking and wasn't losing any weight. So now I am a lot more conscientious about what I dump in there and portion everything out. Yours sounds interesting!

icu 7y ago
Put the following into a bender: * Half a cucumber (skin on) freshly juiced * A chunk of skinned ginger freshly juiced (about 4cm^3) * One tablespoon of chia seeds (freshly milled if possible) * One tablespoon of apple cider vinegar * One juiced lime * One avocado (skinned and pitted) * A large handful of rinsed kale * A large handful of rinsed spinach * Approximately 150ml of coconut water Blend this up and consume. Initially, I also juiced an apple for sweetness but now I don't need it anymore.
- randycupertino 7y ago
  Cool; thanks for the reply and the details... added to the grocery list, will try this week! Cheers :)
- randycupertino 7y ago
  PS- have you calculated the calories in this? If not, I'll add it up in MyFitnessPal but thought you might know if you're making it often. Cheers and thnx again.
  - icu 7y ago
    Sorry I have no idea of the calorie content. It seems like a hot topic in the discussion is calorie counting, but I never did it. I just ate whenever I felt like it, until I was full, during my 8-hour feeding window. Perhaps I was consuming fewer calories because I was eating healthy. Perhaps I wasn't, but my body was excreting them out. No idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Draiken 7y ago

I wish I had the mental strength to forego one of the few pleasures of life without looking back. It's amazing to me how someone can (almost) exclusively eat vegetables and enjoy it. Is it all about habits? Genes? Everyone says that taste is unique for each individual. For me, no amount of good seasoning on a vegetable will ever beat the taste of a steak. I cannot even fathom doing that FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. I guess if I had no option other than dying, that would change my priorities. But aside from that, it feels like you're trading so much to look a little bit better (I know everyone says it's always about health, but let's face it, that's not true a lot of times).

tidepod12 7y ago
Speaking personally, it's very easy to me to be able to completely separate the thought of food from having to be enjoyable. I don't drink water because it tastes good, I drink water because I know I need to drink water. I don't eat a plain sandwich at lunch because it tastes good, I eat that sandwich at lunch because I am hungry and know I need to eat. I don't need my food to taste good for me to eat it. If that has to do with habits or genes, I have no idea. And that doesn't mean I don't get enjoyment from eating. I certainly enjoy an occasional nice steak or a few slices of cake every now and then, but I don't eat meat every meal despite it tasting enjoyable, just like I imagine you don't eat cake every meal despite it tasting wonderful,
artimaeis 7y ago
From my perspective it's about balance. I was completely vegan for about 2 years, and now I'd call myself a mostly-vegetarian. I'm not dogmatic about it, I just think that if we eat less meat it's probably better -- for us, for the environment, and for the horrible treatment of most factory-farmed animals. Back to what I was saying about balance -- you're right: steak is fairly tasty, but so are lots of other things that I probably don't need to eat all that often. If I ate exclusively things that are as tasty as possible I'd enjoy them less. So now if I'm in a special situation I'll maybe order something with some meat -- but it's the exception rather than the rule.
icu 7y ago
I found that my body started to crave vegetables. It is really weird because I used to get sugar cravings, and now my body has completely flipped to vegetable cravings! My experience is that I felt more in tune with my body, and I could 'hear' what it wants, or doesn't like. Another thing I didn't put into the original post is that I struggled with a blocked/stuffy nose since I was a little kid. Two weeks into my diet change, the life-long symptoms were gone (and continue to be gone). "I can now breathe through my nose" might not seem very miraculous to most people, but it is to me. Having had a life-long diet of meat and processed food, I don't really miss it so much as I now actually love healthy food and I can 'smell the roses'.

jokoon 7y ago

> Always consult a medical professional before you do any drastic changes like what I've done, and do your own research on this stuff so you have the confidence that it's the right choice for you, and that you'll stick with it. Intermittent fasting is not drastic. Of course don't do it if you're too skinny, drink water, avoid physical activity when you're fasting... The best is to ask a doctor, but intermittent fasting is easy, not really risky and will yield good results.

tidepod12 7y ago
Going from a normal eating schedule to not eating anything 16 hours a day can have a drastic (yes, drastic) affect on your blood sugar, hormone levels, blood pressure, and more. It is absolutely a drastic change. It will most likely be fine for most people, but could be very dangerous (ie death) for someone that is, for example, diabetic or is taking medicines for mental stability.

ordinaryperson 7y ago

Glad you lost weight but kale smoothies and fasting are not magic--it's just reduced caloric intake conferring most of the benefits you're seeing. The biggest problem people have is overeating, bottom line. I honestly have several strict vegan friends who are obese -- at the end of the day a calorie is a calorie. My only issue when people recount stories like yours, as inspiring as they are, is they associate non-scientifically-provable properties to their eating. As if fasting or kale give you more energy (they don't). Or carbs are automatically evil by themselves and cause weight gain (also wrong). There is no such thing as "super nutrients" -- there are only nutrients. It's like when people talk about going on a "cleanse" from "toxins" in their body, it's just nonsense. I wish high schools would teach everyone how to track their calories, it's a super useful skill that would help many in understanding how much a penalty there is in eating those Five Guys fries. But "I lost weight from [insert special diet here] wow now I have [amazing qualities]" just exaggerates the basic underlying process of reducing caloric intake. And for the record I'm 6'2" & 168 lbs / 76 kg with 5% body fat (measured via calipers), training for multiple athletic events, so I'm not saying this as someone who struggles with following strict diets.

icu 7y ago
Sure, but honestly from where I'm sitting, it feels like magic. I'm sure the result can be completely explained with science but I'm not going to sit down and work it all out. I just care that I'm a healthy weight again and that I found a method of healthy living that I can stick to.
- ordinaryperson 7y ago
  And that's great. It's inspiring to lose weight and be healthier. Not trying to take anything away from what you accomplished, just trying to sort out where the health benefits are coming from: it's weight loss. From reduced caloric intake. Personally, I like fasting. In an era when food is available 24/7 I think it helps teach self-discipline and clearly reduces the likelihood one will overeat. I also like vegetable-heavy diets. Clearly good for you. But to say kale smoothies have "super nutrients" is not scientific. While it's tempting to confer special properties on the foods which have helped transform your life, most likely these are just methods to reducing over-eating. Congrats again.

furyofantares 7y ago

How long ago was this? In any thread on these topics I feel that there will be a number of people reporting their relatively recent smashing success with some method. I’ve had multiple smashing successes myself, lasting over a year, but have always eventually slid back — and then never replicated the success despite lots of effort using the same method. It hasn’t been until I switched to something different that I’ve found success again. It’s like the body eventually learns both physical and psychological tricks to accumulate energy under any regime.

jorda0mega 7y ago
you should check out this talk to understand why that's the case and it might be different with fasting https://youtu.be/7nJgHBbEgsE https://youtu.be/7nJgHBbEgsE
icu 7y ago
I started on, or around 27/05/2019. I say that because I think I actually started a day or two before, but I can't remember now.
valiant-comma 7y ago
To stick, it does need to be a lifestyle change. If our diet and exercise (etc.) cause our health to degrade over the long term, then we probably need to change our habits in a way that avoids that. That is, normal for us should be what provides continued health, rather than something we have to “fix” now and again with special diets. Also, I’m not the person you asked, but to answer your specific question, I changed my lifestyle about five years ago, and — although I needed to make adjustments based on whether I was looking to lose weight or gain muscle or whatever — the overall idea going in was that this would be permanent. And that’s worked for me.

techrich 7y ago

what sites and books did you read?

GeekyBear 7y ago

I have found that getting rid of the sugar and refined carbs from my diet is an effective way to lose weight and keep that weight off (for over a decade now). I've made no effort to exercise more, control portions or avoid fat and dairy. I did switch over to cooking all my meals from scratch.

swsieber 7y ago

> Also, there is no calorie reduction... I eat as much as I like in my 8-hour feeding window Maybe no deliberate calorie reduction, but I'd bet you you're consuming less calories.

notus 7y ago

Cool story, but this has nothing to do with the article.

PerfectElement 7y ago

Bioaccumulation is a big issue with fish. Have you tried getting omegas from algae supplements?

icu 7y ago
Exactly, that is why I limit the fish to only once per week. As for Omega replacement, chia seeds are high in Omega-3 fatty acids (as well as other good stuff), but I haven't looked at algae supplements. It really is an area I need to do more research on.

stjohnswarts 7y ago

I've had a similar experience but with low carb. I eat two meals, one extremely low carb, and one "normal" meal for lunch and dinner and do the 16/8 plan. Have dropped 42lbs in 4 months. I have much better mental clarity and more energy, and cut way back on caffeine as a result. I could never do a vegan diet because it goes against my personal research as to what humans should be eating, but I think that IF can be used for any reasonable diet (caloric restriction) plan.

asdkhadsj 7y ago

Your coffee / awake levels have me interesting. How much coffee do you find wanting?