17 ms·

The #1 Office Perk? Natural Light

591 points by Ianvdl 8y ago

3rdAccount 8y ago
Our old office looked like a cave and the new one has bright lighting and windows everywhere. I vastly prefer the old one, but most people prefer the new.
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
  Bright lights I don’t care for. But natural light I like.
maxxxxx 8y ago
Totally agree. I have been at my current job for 5 years now and I feel that the lack of light is impacting my mental and physical health. This is the number one reason I am starting to look for another job. Any job where I can just have a window looks really good to me now.
Aaargh20318 8y ago
We just moved into a new office and one of the best things about it is that we now have small offices and I can keep the curtains closed and the lights off all day. Why would you want more light, especially natural light ? I never open my curtains at home either.
- escapologybb 8y ago
  ^ This: I don't know how people do it, I'm using my computer in the dark at the moment with the screen being projected onto the ceiling. I can't think of another way I would rather use my computer really.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    In a work environment? I find it hard to believe you spend 8 hours every day lying on your back staring at the ceiling. If you do, it absolutely can't be healthy.
    - escapologybb 8y ago
      My bad, forgot a probably pertinent piece of information. I am quadriplegic. Whilst technically yes I am in a work environment because I run my own company from home, you are quite correct that I am not in a work environment with other people. Mea culpa, Mea maxima culpa.
      - amanzi 8y ago
        "probably pertinent piece of information" - lol, quite the understatement!
        escapologybb 8y ago
        I know, right? But I really, truly do forget sometimes. It's been over 10 years since I became quadriplegic, and I am old now so I'm allowed to forget things I think. :-)
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >If you do, it absolutely can't be healthy. Compared to what, sitting? We already spend 8 hours "lying on our back" every day -- sleeping, and we have evolved for it. It also puts little pressure in our body compared to sitting for hours on end.
      - escapologybb 8y ago
        It actually quite a hard thing to quantify, if I sit up in my wheelchair for too long you end up with pressure sores but on the other side lying down for too long can affect lung function and muscle tone which can make it difficult to eat which leads to all sorts of terrible ickyness.* I think once you become quadriplegic you have bigger problems than your position when using your computer, but overall user on your back is definitely better for me than sitting up in my chair. * Yes, that is the correct medical term.
- hvidgaard 8y ago
  Using a computer screen in a lit room is far better for your eyes than using it in dark room. Natural light is a necessity for preventing myopia in developing eyes.
  - phirschybar 8y ago
    Not sure about the science here, but I have found the opposite to be true for me. I love natural light and crave it while I work. However, I have found that if the room is just a little too bright I will end up with severe eye strain and headaches after a day of work. Ambient light is the unfortunate cause.
- matwood 8y ago
  And I can't get enough natural light. I hate artificial light, and require windows anywhere I work. When the temperature is right, I even sit on my back porch to work. For me, sitting in the dark is depressing.
  - Aaargh20318 8y ago
    > For me, sitting in the dark is depressing. I feel much better in a dimly lit room. Not pitch black but a twilight kind of darkness. However, I am autistic so that may have something to do with it. I only recently realised this. Ever since I've lived on my own I kept my curtains closed and my room dimly lit, but I never made the link to my autism or sensory issues. It seems kind of obvious in hindsight. For some reason things that make 'normal' people happy have the opposite effect on me, and vice versa. For example, socialising makes me feel depressed while the more time I spend alone the happier I am. I don't think I've ever felt lonely either.
    - wrong_variable 8y ago
      I understand how you feel, I do the same thing but most of my friends think someday I am going to shoot up a school or something. To many people NOT socializing doesn't compute.
deleted 8y ago
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Tor3 8y ago
In some civilized countries natural light is actually a requirement, by law. Not in the server closet etc, but in your office it is. You can, of course, adjust the curtains or whatever to get the exact amount you prefer (which typically changes throughout the day, as the sun passes)
- sarabande 8y ago
  Which countries?
  - pivo 8y ago
    The Netherlands for one.
    - the-dude 8y ago
      Nee hoor : https://www.mkbservicedesk.nl/1075/is-daglicht-werkplek-verplicht.htm https://www.mkbservicedesk.nl/1075/is-daglicht-werkplek-verp...
  - ciaron 8y ago
    Germany too.
  - narag 8y ago
    In Spain there is some regulation, but I don't know the details. I remember an inspector paid us a visit and made some recommendations.
  - mrweasel 8y ago
    It has been illegal to stuff people into room with no natural light in Denmark for at least 40 years. It can just be a skylight if you're in warehouse or factory. I believe that office workers are required to have actual windows and honestly I don't think even the employers think it's right to have windowless offices
    - Kalroth 8y ago
scotty79 8y ago
That's a great excuse to keep open space floor plan. "This way all 100 of you can have windows."
- jessaustin 8y ago
  Whatever it takes for the architect to be able to sleep at night. Then during construction, the client can tell the builder to obscure the whole wall of windows with conference rooms and managers' offices.
montenegrohugo 8y ago
Natural light or artificial light that recreates the natural light spectrum is good. Everything else is bad. There is an overabundance of sharp blue light in most modern light sources. I highly recommend either using tinted computer glasses when working or something like f.lux Even worse are flickering lights. Even at a high (nearly imperceptible) frequency, I have seen so many colleagues(myself included) suffer from headaches due to them. What should be done? Either invest in better smoother lighting for your workers or let plenty of natural light inside.
Legogris 8y ago
Am I the only one here who actually likes it dark? It might be healthier with natural light, but my personal preferences has always been darkness. I wonder if it is related to coming from a northern country (Scandinavia) where ~1/4 of the year is really dark.
- mrweasel 8y ago
  You may be the minority at least, but you also have to see it as having options. There's a big difference between having a room with a window and opting to close the curtains, and have no window at all. Most likely you also don't get depressed by working in a bright room, while others actually suffer if they have to little light. I would guess that all Scandinavia countries have similar rules, and there's actually a minimum amount of light you're legally allowed to have in a room. The law in Denmark for instance actually require a room to be insanely bright.
- wingerlang 8y ago
  As a counter point, I guess, I'm also from there and I don't like dark offices.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  My preference is nearly a dark cave and people think I'm odd. I also use a plugin to make FF have dark backgrounds and light text. I don't enjoy squinting all the time. In at least one case, it wasn't just me. I used to work editing photos on California's central coast and after we moved to a building with loads and loads of skylights, and got a bunch of new glossy-screen iMacs, it was really hard to get color accuracy if you wore anything but a black or white shirt. It was like staring at a mirror all day long. Eventually we got umbrellas to blot out the sun and that helped.
  - EricLemieux 8y ago
    What plugin are you using in firefox? I have just been using stylus and using dark themes for sites I use often, but would love a more automated approach, especially for sites I don't use that often.
dasmoth 8y ago
Natural light is good, but the office isn't the place I crave it the most. And as other have alluded to, I'd much rather have a dingy personal cave than a bright but shared space. So #1 perk for me: enough schedule flexibility that I can ensure I can have some outdoor time during daylight hours every day, even in winter.
- juanuys 8y ago
  Yes, this is why I try and get WFH gigs over winter so I can do a lunch-time run. Getting up at 6AM in winter for a run isn't going to happen ;-)
williamlucas 8y ago
You know we human should use more natural light in our office but their is no hard and fast rule for the same. People are so busy in their rut routine that they cant even handle a day off outside with family. https://www.assignmenthelp4me.com/my-assignment-help.html https://www.assignmenthelp4me.com/my-assignment-help.html
yitchelle 8y ago
Is this really considered a perk? It is a bit like getting paid is a perk. I work in Germany where direct access to natural sunlight is part of our OH&S policies.
- myspy 8y ago
  Thank you, I wanted to point this out too. Awkward how other countries think about work environments.
- baby 8y ago
  I’ve worked in an office without windows, really takes a toll on you.
  - tomkat0789 8y ago
    Yep, I've never worked in a room with windows. It leads to what I call coal miner syndrome: go in before the sun rises, leave after it sets. Bums me out, particularly during the winter. :( Luckily, where I work now, we're getting a new office, and when the manager presented the plans, one of the first questions was, "Who gets the window seats!?"
  - executesorder66 8y ago
    I think their point was it's so obvious that it shouln't be considered a perk. "I've worked in an office without getting paid, really takes a toll on you." Sounds ridiculous. Why would you work without getting paid? Same for natural light.
  - ehnto 8y ago
    Likewise. It's insidious if you don't realise that's what's causing you to feel horrible. You start to think you hate your job, but it's just the workspace that's causing you to feel trapped and anxious. Like some other people have mentioned, you start wondering if you might prefer to work construction or in a food truck or just anything so long as it's outside. But really you can get most of the way outside with a good office space and you may find you enjoy your job a whole lot more.
  - 8y ago
invalidusernam3 8y ago
For me, it's aircon
- adwww 8y ago
  I hate office aircon. There always seems to be a lag between hot weather starting and the ac getting ramped up, and the other way around, hot weather over, AC still on full blast. I keep 2 different jackets in my office locker to wear at my desk in the middle of summer, because I don't know how hot or not it will be at my desk. At least in offices without it, I know to dress appropiately based on the weather outside.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  Have you tried open windows + a light breeze + background sound from outside + natural light with the inside lights dimmed a bit? That's the good stuff, whether it's 60 or 90F.
mlthoughts2018 8y ago
Every day I am the first to show up at my company, and I get maybe ~ 1 hour of nice, quiet work time with low lighting from the windows with overhead lights off. Then the second person who comes in every day shows up and flips all the overhead lights on every god damn day. When I’m working and the lights flip, I get a sense of rage and depression. I think it will be the reason why I quit this job.
- sleepychu 8y ago
  I don't want to condescend but have you tried talking to the person switching on the lights? Maybe you could come to a compromise.
  - Jach 8y ago
    It'll just be the third or fourth person then. Talk to the office manager if you want to enforce a natural light time from the top.
  - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    Then I’m just the whiny asshole or primadonna or something. It’s not possible to have these preferences treated in an adult way in modern corporations, and anyone the issue got escalated to will just see it as whining. You have to keep your head down and act like it’s Candide: whatever your company currently does is the best possible thing they could ever do.
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      "Then I’m just the whiny asshole or primadonna or something." The way you approach doing this goes a long, long way toward how you're perceived. "It’s not possible to have these preferences treated in an adult way in modern corporations, and anyone the issue got escalated to will just see it as whining." I imagine you think this is the case because you see others asking for similar types of things as also being "whining". All you have to do is ask politely and calmly, and things should be fine. You might not get your way, but asking for something isn't automatically seen as "whining" by most people.
Kiro 8y ago
I always have all the blinds closed in my apartment and I work from home. I get very little natural light. Any reason I should force myself to get more?
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Just the health benefits, I suppose.
- coldtea 8y ago
  If you don't care for your health, no. In any case, the ill effects will only show up after decades of such a habit (and they wouldn't be directly and easily attributed to it), so no need to be concerned with it now.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    OK I guess I'll stop brushing my teeth too...
    - coldtea 8y ago
      That was sarcasm! I thought the "If you don't care for your health, no." part made it obvious
      - jessaustin 8y ago
        I don't seriously suggest that anyone not brush her teeth. However, it's a fact that many people don't take care of their teeth for decades before suffering the consequences. If one lost one tooth every three years, one would probably improve one's oral care. However, with periodontal problems, the teeth often hang on for a really long time, before all failing at pretty much the same time. Since lots of people don't take care of their teeth even though they know they should, some people will avoid all sunlight.
adiusmus 8y ago
Not a perk. I fired an employer for failing to provide natural sunlight for a reasonable amount of time throughout the day. I’ve also rejected offers involving lack of sunlight. One place adjusted to this requirement quite well. Apparently I was the first candidate to even bring this up when I asked about the working environment. The cost to my health is measurable.
- wackro 8y ago
  > I fired an employer I like your attitude. I'm currently gazing down a glass-ceilinged atrium so will not be firing anybody for the time being.
- em-bee 8y ago
  when our teams office got moved from another city into the basement of the main office, i threatened to quit unless i got a desk by the window. the building was on a hill, so the basement did have an open side out to the back with windows by the entrance. space was a bit small but they managed to custom-fit a desk so that i could sit there. greetings, eMBee.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  You're my hero. I'd like to hear about what else you consider essential before hiring an employer.
  - adiusmus 8y ago
    Well it’s called a job interview for a reason. Inter+view. Prepare for interviews as if you’re hiring them and you’ll have plenty of questions. Your employer needs to deliver as much as you do. Negotiate! I know it’s a different mindset. Do it long enough and you realise you might as well work for yourself. Or work on contracts and sub out what you can’t directly do but are willing to manage. My old mindset when I started out was that employers know everything and are all powerful. In reality they had better have more experience than you in multiple ways or they’re going to be fired either by the market or when you have to quit (which is obviously you firing them).
pdpi 8y ago
At some point I the worst of both worlds — a desk directly underneath a corner frosted glass skylight/window combination, meaning impossibly bright light in the early afternoon (making my display quite hard to read), and no effective nearby artificial lighting when it started getting darker. Took me maybe a month to find another job after my boss insisted I couldn't move my desk elsewhere.
jccalhoun 8y ago
I thought the article was talking about Natural Light https://www.naturallight.com/ https://www.naturallight.com/
rdl 8y ago
Maybe natural light is a perk because it is nice to have (sometimes), but a door/actual office with a lock and soundproofing would then be a minimum baseline requirement. (I’d honestly prefer windowless to a window I couldn’t control, too. Windows with effective shades are nice, particularly if they can be opened for fresh air, but I’d be completely fine with a windowless office with a substantial door, great artificial full spectrum lighting, and HVAC under my control 24x7. Especially if my door and lock had a security rating.
ourmandave 8y ago
I also read you can't fake it with a picture of a sunny day or whatever. I have no windows so I make sure to at least walk past one on the way to the printer and back.
gambiting 8y ago
Oh yes please. I work as a games programmer at a massive studio and it looks like 90% of people here prefer complete darkness during the day, to the point where they have these umbrella-like covers above their desks to cover any light from the lamps that somehow miraculously are still on. Me and few other people occupy a little corner next to a window that we stubbornly refuse to close the blinds on, despite bi-weekly requests to do so from our artists. If I had to work in the darkness I'd genuinely consider leaving - it gives me a headache.
- taneq 8y ago
  I think it's interesting that the comments here seem almost universally in favour of bright natural lighting, when clearly there are plenty of people (at least in gamedev) who feel otherwise. I tend to prefer a dimly lit room and am perfectly happy with the only light being from my monitors. Then again as an ex-gamedev troglodyte I'm also happiest working from 3pm-1am...
  - nilkn 8y ago
    One fairly universal current I've observed though is a dislike for strong artificial lighting, particularly overhead lighting. I can work very productively in an abundance of natural light or in a basically dark room lit only by the glow of monitors and RGB accessories, but put me in a room without windows and with supermarket-style lighting and I'll be miserable. In my home office, I'm fortunate to have both a large window and a simple IKEA floor lamp (something like this: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10394129/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10394129/). I alternate between the two, but never turn on the overhead lighting on the ceiling fan.
    - gh02t 8y ago
      Part of that might be the harsh nature of fluorescent lighting used in a lot of offices. Natural light is broad spectrum, but typical fluorescent lighting is a few sharp peaks. Combined with the 120 Hz flicker common in many I find them pretty unpleasant, especially for long periods of time. I find I don't mind higher CRI and higher frequency lighting nearly as much. You can get that in fluorescent lights and they're not as bad as they used to be, but the really good ones are expensive.
k__ 8y ago
lol, the anti-remote propaganda gets more ridiculous every day.
- Jach 8y ago
  And the health nuts. Or just anti-night propaganda. I love working at night when it's super dark regardless of windows and the only light is from my screens.
perseusprime11 8y ago
Isn’t having a good boss the #1 office perk?
- lghh 8y ago
  That's not a perk, it's a requirement.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
I really wish it was possible to somehow use my laptop outside when it's sunny. It's a shame to spend the prime hours of the day inside, and then spend all your spare time in the dark at night. I get really jealous of the construction workers when it's a nice sunny day outside. I've worked a few different outdoor jobs, and there's nothing quite like working on a sunny day, it really lifts the spirit.
- inawarminister 8y ago
  I've bought an Amazon Kindle Paperwhite recently, and spent a few hours under the mid day sun in the riverside reading some books. It's worth it just for that! Shame there is no e-ink laptop sometimes soon, most likely...
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    If they could make a 11" or larger e-ink display with a 24 Hz refresh rate, I'd buy it in an instant.
- crehn 8y ago
  When it's really bright outside, switch to a monochrome, black on white terminal theme with a huge font. You'll be able to work anywhere without noticing dust or greasy fingerprints on your screen. Plus it's an exercise in minimalism.
- egypturnash 8y ago
  I have a shade for my laptop I made out of black illustration board and tape. It sticks to the magnets in my Mac’s lid. I have done a lot of work outside in the park. There are commercially made shades too. Look around.
another-cuppa 8y ago
I think some comments are missing the point. I used to work in an office that definitely had "natural light" because it did have windows, but the view from the windows was basically just other grey buildings about 10 metres away. I now work in an office where I can look out and see grass, trees, and the sky, and it's much nicer.
- ehnto 8y ago
  Trees and greenery in general take a space from "concrete wasteland" to "human living space" for me. I have no idea why we build plazas as big concrete slabs. Who thought that was what people wanted? Who has every thought to themselves, gee, I sure wish there was more flat concrete to look at.
  - jrockway 8y ago
    > Who thought that was what people wanted? You don't have to pay someone to mow the concrete slab, I guess. (And in the winter, don't shovel the snow, just make a sign that says: "warning, slippery!")
    - monocasa 8y ago
      It's supposedly so that events are easier to setup as "it's a more free form space". IMO it doesn't really make it all that much easier, and looks like shit when an event isn't going on.
  - betterworldb 8y ago
    It's modernist design. And it sucks.
    - gjhicks 8y ago
      Maybe bad modernist design or the out-of-favor brutalist design. Modernist design does not favor large slabs of flat concrete. Really, no form of design does. So, it's really just bad design.
syntaxing 8y ago
I luckily currently work in a place with a good view and natural light (though the ceiling light is on all the time too). I worked at many places where the engineers worked next to a clean room so everything was surrounded by closed off walls. I like to call it the dungeon. It really sucked during the winter since we do not notice how much snow accumulated until we left.
p2t2p 8y ago
+1. I sit next to a window and enjoy it very much. I used to sit in a middle of the hall and it was so freaking depressing - no daylight at all, always lamps that I needed to ask a guy who didn't care to swap with me.
srge 8y ago
Very often on TV when I see office spaces in the US, I see rarely natural lights. They often seem to be underground or inside some refurbished industrial buildings. Here in France we all have well lit offices with natural lights and windows. Well not all but the vast majority. To me it seems punitive to work in a blind/artificially lit office.
- rplnt 8y ago
  I'd guess the number one reason is it's easier (cheaper) to film if you don't have to fake natural light.
  - srge 8y ago
    Not only films but documentaries or YouTube videos. Seems like a lot of workers in the US are working in such environments.
tdehollain 8y ago
I sometimes wonder how light fixtures that mimic natural light are not a thing yet. They exist, but somehow they remained a niche product.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  Even if they were used, nothing beats a window.
- aaron695 8y ago
  > They exist Not so sure they do. I came here to see if that was the case. If they exist they are very expensive! Here's an example that cost $$$$ and I'm still not sure of the quality. http://www.coelux.com/ http://www.coelux.com/ This has been a know problem for decades (longer?) the elusive light bulbs that create real light. Billion $ invention if you can solve it.
- JackMorgan 8y ago
  Oh they do, but they are expensive and rare. http://www.coelux.com/en/products/index http://www.coelux.com/en/products/index I have been trying to figure out how to make my own, but it's tricky.
  - tdehollain 8y ago
    I initially thought "it must be pretty expensive, like $1,500"...but no, it's actually $30,000!! No wonder you're trying to build it yourself.
martinwww 8y ago
or CO2 concentration under 1000 ... in our building they somehow trying to save money on air conditioning so we don't consider air in the office to be 'fresh' as there's usually ~1500ppm - 2000ppm CO2 concentration.
- LeifCarrotson 8y ago
  For others who may be curious, outdoor mean CO2 concentration is currently 410 ppm. CO2 concentrations under 1000 ppm are described as having 'good air exchange'. CO2 between 1500-2000 is unpleasant, causes drowsiness and feels stale and gross. 5000 ppm is the typical workplace health limit. Some guidelines are based on 1950s air quality, which had 250-350 ppm CO2. Today, you need more circulation to maintain acceptable CO2 levels than you did 50 years ago because the outdoor air has a higher concentration.
Invictus0 8y ago
I'm a mechanical engineer. Engineering workplaces are notorious for poor sunlight exposure. Even the big tech companies develop their products in windowless rooms. And forget it if you have to go anywhere near a factory floor, it feels like you're in a cave.
hakkoru 8y ago
I work in a SCIF. The most natural light I get at my desk is the sun peeking out of the blinds in the morning. In addition, we keep most of the lights off, for that underground bunker aesthetic I'm assuming. One of the SCIFs here doesn't even have windows. I don't mind it that much, and I usually leave work while the sun is still out. I can see some people having an issue with it, however.
- laythea 8y ago
  Although I could easily google it, I am surely not the only one who has no idea what a SCIF is, and would have appreciated it to be broken out. Otherwise I have no idea what your talking about.
- hindsightbias 8y ago
  Why would a SCIF have outside windows?
  - hakkoru 8y ago
    It can be hard to avoid if you're renting a space and you can't afford to be picky.
l33tbro 8y ago
Currently working alone in my own windowless office in an almost completely windowless building. Compared to the previous 'open-plan' gig where I sat opposite opposite Jill-from-Comms and Sales-bro Bryan, it rules so hard. So yeah,"the #1 office perk" for me is not getting interrupted with inane shit every ten minutes.
- Sileni 8y ago
  I will never work in an open plan building again. It left me absolutely brain dead and begging the clock to go faster because I couldn't think at work anyway.
  - dijit 8y ago
    I'm with you, it's like my brain turns off when I'm there, no amount of noise-cancelling headphones can stop me noticing movements in my periphery or the feeling of possible immediate jarring interruptions if I have my back to the room. I get all my day-work done in the evening, when I'm in the office I just browse reddit or read HN because; unless I'm in a meeting or talking to a colleague- I cannot possibly be productive. (I _really_ did try to avoid Reddit/HN but after 2 years of doing basically nothing above a 10 minute task I couldn't do it anymore, I was bored.) And my company still trucks on with an open office policy. :(
    - Timmah 8y ago
      > no amount of noise-cancelling headphones can stop me noticing movements in my periphery Or the shaking of the floor. I worked in a "modern" high-rise of a well known company with open offices and the floor felt like it was made of Ikea particle board skin of an under-floor giant African drum.
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      People have different priorities. Having worked in both environments, if I had to choose between a private windowless cave with no sunlight and an open bullpen fishbowl with ample natural light, I’m picking the fishbowl every time. You can wear headphones to block out the noise, but it doesn’t work to just hang a picture of the sun on your wall.
rootbear 8y ago
This is amusing to me, because when I was at Pixar, many of the shader writers and lighting TDs wanted an internal office, where they could control exactly the amount and type of light in their workspace. Many had nearly pitch black offices, so they could better see subtle differences in changes to their lighting and shading code.
crehn 8y ago
I love natural light, and our office has huge windows and is at the top floor, but unfortunately many developers prefer working in the dark. It's a bit depressing sometimes.
ptero 8y ago
I am curious whether it is the light or the view that makes the difference. If it is the light I wonder if a technical fix is possible: a short waveguide and/or a few mirrors into a "micro sun" diffuser in the room instead of a light bulb? It should be relatively cheap if the benefits are as big as claimed.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  I think it's the view - we have blinds you can see out of but darken the space by a ton, and everyone keeps em down all the time.
hatsubai 8y ago
The interesting thing is that too much light can take its toll on productivity as well. When I was working at another company, it was inside an essentially "all glass, modern" building on the top floor overseeing a creek which led to the Bay. Between about 10 am until 3 pm, everyone would always scramble to find whatever random objects they could to block the light because management never paid for any blinds. We'd grab task boards, company banners, and anything else we could get our hands on so we could block the sun and work. We'd have to constantly shift them, or ourselves, as the sun changed positions, which created some awkward situations when half the team began to huddle in one small, shady area in the building at peak times. Needless to say, as someone who prefers darker environments, my productivity wasn't quite as high as I would have personally liked.
- H1Supreme 8y ago
  My desk gets the full force of the sun after noon. I have blinds, and still build a makeshift sun-blocker out of an old box. Too much light can definitely be a negative.
ishikawa 8y ago
Natural or not, the most important for me is not to get on my eyes or reflecting on the screen.
deleted 8y ago
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jghjg 8y ago
Our office has lots of natural light, that would be enough and perfect, and also lots of fresh mountain air. Of course, artificial light and freaking air coinditioner is on the whole day.. sigh.. I am the only one that feels like a chicken who is forced to make eggs with all those artificial lights above you? because that is the same strategy they do with chickens, tricking them into thinking is a new day with artificial lights A few times I disconnected the light bulbs around my area, but this trick only works for few days until the first alienated worker comes
flr03 8y ago
I you doubt the benefits of natural light, here is a story from a good friend of mine. Few years back when he was in college, he took an appointment with a doctor because started to feel depressed with no obvious reason (no family drama, health issues whatsoever...). Very quickly the doc asked him where he was spending most of his time, answer: in a classroom with tiny windows, curtain closed and artificial lights.
- nine_k 8y ago
  Bright full-spectrum lamps help. There are some sold as therapeutic devices.
  - PascLeRasc 8y ago
    Can you attest to that personally? I looked into them for treating SAD and none of the Amazon top-reviewed ones seemed consistent, and I couldn't find much well-regarded literature either.
    - nine_k 8y ago
      I never had a SAD but I put full-spectrum lamps around my apartment, and my entire family approved of that. I think I feel better under that light than under the typical yellow-glow "warm" CFL light, I fell less tired. The lamps are CRI 90-95, a mix of 5500K and 4000K; they produce pretty bright light (4500 lumen in smaller rooms, 6000 lumen in the bigger room, 3000+ lumen in the bathroom), and it's pretty comparable with the light from the window in the summer. Note that I live in a NYC apartment which is not exactly spacious; in a typical house, I'd use 1.5 to 2x the amount of light. One of my friends who happens to have particularly large rooms uses 4 to 6 T8 tubes to light them; the tubes are full-spectrum ones used to light movie sets, something like KinoFlo.
nfriedly 8y ago
I work remote and I lease a private office. I looked at 3 different options and ended up choosing the smallest one because it had the most natural light.
pleasecalllater 8y ago
This is so sad.
chrxr 8y ago
Several people in my team (sysadmins) go to reasonably extreme lengths to eliminate natural light from their working environment...
resters 8y ago
I think this is a testament to how bad flourescent and much LED and Halogen lighting actually is. This is not a limit of engineering, it's a consequence of trying to save money on lighting and energy without any consideration for the ergonomics of the light output. Staring at flicker all day is highly unpleasant (but so is trying to see a screen when natural sunlight glare is shining on it).
cphoover 8y ago
https://products0.imgix.drizly.com/ci-natural-light-4e47720c32369068.png?auto=format%2Ccompress&fm=jpeg&q=20 https://products0.imgix.drizly.com/ci-natural-light-4e47720c...
- smudgymcscmudge 8y ago
  Is it really surprising that free beer is a popular perk?
INTPenis 8y ago
#1 Office perk: Not being required to be in the office.
- betterworldb 8y ago
  +1
- dboreham 8y ago
  Wouldn't that be #0 ?
microcolonel 8y ago
Get some high quality LEDs, like those produced by Yuji[0] (not associated/sponsored), it's the next best thing. Bad LEDs are the worst, fluorescents are second, then incandescents, then good LEDs, then natural light (when it's not too gloomy outside). [0]: https://www.yujiintl.com/ https://www.yujiintl.com/
neonIcon 8y ago
For the most part I agree with the sentiment of this article. However, I am currently in my office with sunglasses on because of the abundance of 'natural light'.. It can definitely be a hindrance at certain times, but overall it is a perk.
kawfey 8y ago
This wasn't the "natural light" I was expecting. I thought this was going to be about a office with free cheap beer. I know of a few workplaces in the US that do feature free alcohol at work, but many times out of 10 someone gets way too drunk and ruins the fun for everyone.
dboreham 8y ago
#2 : a door.
WhompingWindows 8y ago
While my room in the office (with 7 cubes in it) does have 4 windows, they are blocked with strong black metal mesh for security reasons. Also, most of the desks in the room face away from the window, so none of us are actually looking towards windows. It's not ideal, but I use breaks and lunch to just quickly walk around the block and get some perspective on obstacles I'm facing.
TheCapn 8y ago
My personal experience/preference is merely that a "change of scenery" is a highly favorable perk. I have a private office with a window, and after struggling against code for long enough it is so nice to turn my gaze outside and watch the dog park next door. But I say scenery change, because one of my favorite things about my job is that I work off site frequently at industrial plants, agricultural facilities and the like. Its like a moderate vacation to just be away from a desk, even though my laptop is attached to me the entire time. Working in a dingy concrete bunker can be as much of a perk as it is to look out my window. Mostly just monotonous environments tend to be what bothers me most I think. My last job was at a business attached to a mall (you could walk out the doors into the mall food court on the second level). Coffee breaks were often just walking around the downtown core or through the attached public buildings over walkways. Changing your environment is such a massive thing for me to help the day/week/month/years not feel like one long slog
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  There was a tweet going around yesterday with around 500k likes about how we all secretly love to rearrange our rooms to get a "new me" feeling. I think a constant change of scenery is really important for us to not get stuck in negative mindsets.
- el_benhameen 8y ago
  I've always thought it would be cool to be a dev who goes onsite or at least has a job that's physical in some capacity. How'd you end up in your role, if you don't mind me asking?
peterwwillis 8y ago
If a plant can't grow there, I don't wanna work there. (Grow lights & hydroponics are just The Matrix for plants)
DenisM 8y ago
Rarely discussed is the fact that professional phography lighting has high CRI and is not that expensive. There are plenty of LED panels on Amazon that can be rigged to work as desk lights. Also, you can buy a professinal CRI meter so that you can get an idea of what you’re buying here. Outside LED there are also high-CRI CFL lights which are easier to fit into overhead lights compared to LED. Still they need to be measured.
- thekingofh 8y ago
  Can you explain what you mean? Is this similar to natural lighting somehow?
  - DenisM 8y ago
    Photographers like their lighting to be as close to natural as possible for best pictures. They can tell the effect when taking pictures, they have measuring tools to understand the light before taking pictures, and they have equipment (bulbs, panels, etc) made to satisfy their use cases which they can actually evaluate for quality. Light quality is generally measured in CRI (color rendering index), with 100 being sunlight. Best professional photo lights give you up to 97 CRI. I don't know how closely CRI reflects the biological effect of the sun light, but we sort of can judge it by proxy - CRI reflects photography requirements, which correlates with closeness to sun light spectrum, which correlates with biologically positive effects. Even being a proxy, this measuring ability is still vastly better anything we have for the "health" light which you can't really measure except in a control group study which none of us can do. In practice I suggest going to Amazon and shopping for high-CRI lights, such as photography LED panels, about $100-$200 a pop. They're not big enough to light up a room, but they can light up your desk or maybe cubicle. I bought a few and the light is very, very pleasant. Alternatively shop for high-CRI CFL lights to replace the ceiling lights, those can light up the room. I haven't tried that yet though. It might also be useful to buy a CRI meter so that you know where you stand. Expensive as they are, might be still worth it considering the benefits. Also maybe pool money with friends on this - you're not going to use it a whole lot.
AnnoyingSwede 8y ago
Working in a beautiful glass building with very much natural light i still have to claim our bar/free booze is what gets me to work every day.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
wallflower 8y ago
This is an unpopular opinion. You can train yourself to work in relatively noisy environments. The mind is plastic and adaptable. It is not going to happen right away. The first step is to not plug in your headphones when you go to a coffee shop. Enjoy the ambient chatter. Don't try to do any work. After a while, you may try reading a book or a newspaper. It is my belief that headphones can breed dependency on them to focus. Kind of like you may be anchoring your flow state to the simple act of donning your headphones. It might not work for you. Especially if you pre-decide it won't work. Remember the mind is a powerful tool. It may work for you if you start trying out life without headphones.
tdsamardzhiev 8y ago
Ugh, no. My eyes ask for a place as dark as possible, so I can use a white-on-black theme and lower my monitor's brightness all the way down. The #1 office perk for me is silence. Game sudios are so noisy, holly cow!
jay-anderson 8y ago
I was at a company once where they were out of cubical space. There was an available office that had windows so they put some people in there and boarded up the windows.
kisstheblade 8y ago
Haha, where I live we have no natural light even outside half of the year (near the arctic circle). And we are most productive during the dark season because there isn't anything else to do, or any distractions nagging on your mind (like going to the beach etc) :)
jedberg 8y ago
Every place I worked, I optimized for a window seat. I would volunteer to sit next to the loudest and stinkiest people if that's what it took, because those things didn't bother me (noise cancelling headphones and my nose doesn't really work anyway). I would sit far away from all the other amenities, or close to them, whichever was worse, just to get a window. Somehow I got really lucky, and in 16 years of working in offices, I spent about 12 of them near a window (thanks in part to large suburban offices of Silicon Valley that offered lots of window seats). And for the most part I didn't have to deal with loud or stinky people or being far/close to other amenities. Now I work from home, where I can see trees out my window. Sadly, Apple cut some of them down to make room for the offramp to their spaceship, so now I also see lights and power lines, but still tree too.
- TomK32 8y ago
  Time to put some apple seeds in the ground :)
  - jedberg 8y ago
    Ironically, apple trees don't grow all that well near Apple. What they cut down were 80 year old redwoods.
- mooze 8y ago
  My office recently knocked down a dorm room so that the team sitting in the corner could get some sunlight. Made the area so much more pleasant to work in.
rconti 8y ago
I have my first-ever desk by a window. Naturally, other coworkers jockeyed to also sit near the windows, so they could promptly complain it's too bright and insist on lowering the shades.
markc 8y ago
I highly value a good view, and lucked into a lovely space on the 8th floor in a corner with large picture windows on 2 sides, and views of MIT and East Kendall Square nearby, and Central and Harvard square in the distance. The bottom half of my view is very green, mostly trees, with a few buildings nestled among them. The top half is blue sky, white clouds. I watch the slow progress of several buildings under construction. A huge tower near Central has appeared, the stairway core apparently. Two big projects to the north also, near the cinema and Donnelly field. Soon I'll see the first yellows, reds and oranges of fall. I enjoy the view so much that I brought in binoculars to see more detail. I have a sort of hobby of identifying landmarks visually and then finding them on google maps. This can be surprisingly difficult to do. The relative scale of things is surprising. Things that loom large in my view don't look big on the map, and vice versa. I can visually trace a good portion of my bike path to work, as I live near the top of a distant hill. I identify the landmarks on that route. Despite these treasures I only remember to look up at the view a few times a week. I sometimes forget to open the blinds for days at a time. Very sad! I'm happy that this article reminded me of this great pleasure. It's trite, but life is short; enjoy the view.
silverdrake11 8y ago
I used to sit in a cubicle next to a window in a high rise. I would always get sun shining in my eyes and my face would get red sometimes. I usually ended up with strained eyes and later found out the uvb radiation can cause skin cancer. So I'm not convinced.
ConceptJunkie 8y ago
Natural Light is a big thing, but the #1 Office Perk is not working in an open office. I would trade the open office I work in, which has a ton of windows and natural light, for a regular office, even just cubicles in a heartbeat. I love the natural light, but I hate the noise and visual distraction 10 times more than I love natural light.
zxia31 8y ago
another first world problem
purplezooey 8y ago
no. The #1 office perk is a real freaking office. Not a worn spot on a table and an ikea chair.
tempodox 8y ago
Natural light is overrated. We programmers are olms, sitting in the cellar with the mushrooms.
forapurpose 8y ago
I very much prefer natural light to artificial light. I've wondered, regarding lighting windowless areas: Why don't buildings put natural light collectors ("windows") on exterior surfaces, and use light redirectors ("mirrors" and maybe "fiber") to shunt the light to places that otherwise lack it. The light could be output through the same fixtures that host artificial light sources. (Sensors and dimmers on artificial light sources could compensate for variations in natural light.) It would be much more pleasant than artificial light and it would save energy. Perhaps the ROI isn't high enough.

591 points by Ianvdl 8y ago

Our old office looked like a cave and the new one has bright lighting and windows everywhere. I vastly prefer the old one, but most people prefer the new.

2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
Bright lights I don’t care for. But natural light I like.

maxxxxx 8y ago

Totally agree. I have been at my current job for 5 years now and I feel that the lack of light is impacting my mental and physical health. This is the number one reason I am starting to look for another job. Any job where I can just have a window looks really good to me now.

Aaargh20318 8y ago

We just moved into a new office and one of the best things about it is that we now have small offices and I can keep the curtains closed and the lights off all day. Why would you want more light, especially natural light ? I never open my curtains at home either.

escapologybb 8y ago
^ This: I don't know how people do it, I'm using my computer in the dark at the moment with the screen being projected onto the ceiling. I can't think of another way I would rather use my computer really.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  In a work environment? I find it hard to believe you spend 8 hours every day lying on your back staring at the ceiling. If you do, it absolutely can't be healthy.
  - escapologybb 8y ago
    My bad, forgot a probably pertinent piece of information. I am quadriplegic. Whilst technically yes I am in a work environment because I run my own company from home, you are quite correct that I am not in a work environment with other people. Mea culpa, Mea maxima culpa.
    - amanzi 8y ago
      "probably pertinent piece of information" - lol, quite the understatement!
      - escapologybb 8y ago
        I know, right? But I really, truly do forget sometimes. It's been over 10 years since I became quadriplegic, and I am old now so I'm allowed to forget things I think. :-)
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >If you do, it absolutely can't be healthy. Compared to what, sitting? We already spend 8 hours "lying on our back" every day -- sleeping, and we have evolved for it. It also puts little pressure in our body compared to sitting for hours on end.
    - escapologybb 8y ago
      It actually quite a hard thing to quantify, if I sit up in my wheelchair for too long you end up with pressure sores but on the other side lying down for too long can affect lung function and muscle tone which can make it difficult to eat which leads to all sorts of terrible ickyness.* I think once you become quadriplegic you have bigger problems than your position when using your computer, but overall user on your back is definitely better for me than sitting up in my chair. * Yes, that is the correct medical term.
hvidgaard 8y ago
Using a computer screen in a lit room is far better for your eyes than using it in dark room. Natural light is a necessity for preventing myopia in developing eyes.
- phirschybar 8y ago
  Not sure about the science here, but I have found the opposite to be true for me. I love natural light and crave it while I work. However, I have found that if the room is just a little too bright I will end up with severe eye strain and headaches after a day of work. Ambient light is the unfortunate cause.
matwood 8y ago
And I can't get enough natural light. I hate artificial light, and require windows anywhere I work. When the temperature is right, I even sit on my back porch to work. For me, sitting in the dark is depressing.
- Aaargh20318 8y ago
  > For me, sitting in the dark is depressing. I feel much better in a dimly lit room. Not pitch black but a twilight kind of darkness. However, I am autistic so that may have something to do with it. I only recently realised this. Ever since I've lived on my own I kept my curtains closed and my room dimly lit, but I never made the link to my autism or sensory issues. It seems kind of obvious in hindsight. For some reason things that make 'normal' people happy have the opposite effect on me, and vice versa. For example, socialising makes me feel depressed while the more time I spend alone the happier I am. I don't think I've ever felt lonely either.
  - wrong_variable 8y ago
    I understand how you feel, I do the same thing but most of my friends think someday I am going to shoot up a school or something. To many people NOT socializing doesn't compute.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Tor3 8y ago

In some civilized countries natural light is actually a requirement, by law. Not in the server closet etc, but in your office it is. You can, of course, adjust the curtains or whatever to get the exact amount you prefer (which typically changes throughout the day, as the sun passes)

sarabande 8y ago
Which countries?
- pivo 8y ago
  The Netherlands for one.
  - the-dude 8y ago
    Nee hoor : https://www.mkbservicedesk.nl/1075/is-daglicht-werkplek-verplicht.htm https://www.mkbservicedesk.nl/1075/is-daglicht-werkplek-verp...
- ciaron 8y ago
  Germany too.
- narag 8y ago
  In Spain there is some regulation, but I don't know the details. I remember an inspector paid us a visit and made some recommendations.
- mrweasel 8y ago
  It has been illegal to stuff people into room with no natural light in Denmark for at least 40 years. It can just be a skylight if you're in warehouse or factory. I believe that office workers are required to have actual windows and honestly I don't think even the employers think it's right to have windowless offices
  - Kalroth 8y ago

scotty79 8y ago

That's a great excuse to keep open space floor plan. "This way all 100 of you can have windows."

jessaustin 8y ago
Whatever it takes for the architect to be able to sleep at night. Then during construction, the client can tell the builder to obscure the whole wall of windows with conference rooms and managers' offices.

montenegrohugo 8y ago

Natural light or artificial light that recreates the natural light spectrum is good. Everything else is bad. There is an overabundance of sharp blue light in most modern light sources. I highly recommend either using tinted computer glasses when working or something like f.lux Even worse are flickering lights. Even at a high (nearly imperceptible) frequency, I have seen so many colleagues(myself included) suffer from headaches due to them. What should be done? Either invest in better smoother lighting for your workers or let plenty of natural light inside.

Legogris 8y ago

Am I the only one here who actually likes it dark? It might be healthier with natural light, but my personal preferences has always been darkness. I wonder if it is related to coming from a northern country (Scandinavia) where ~1/4 of the year is really dark.

mrweasel 8y ago
You may be the minority at least, but you also have to see it as having options. There's a big difference between having a room with a window and opting to close the curtains, and have no window at all. Most likely you also don't get depressed by working in a bright room, while others actually suffer if they have to little light. I would guess that all Scandinavia countries have similar rules, and there's actually a minimum amount of light you're legally allowed to have in a room. The law in Denmark for instance actually require a room to be insanely bright.
wingerlang 8y ago
As a counter point, I guess, I'm also from there and I don't like dark offices.
CalRobert 8y ago
My preference is nearly a dark cave and people think I'm odd. I also use a plugin to make FF have dark backgrounds and light text. I don't enjoy squinting all the time. In at least one case, it wasn't just me. I used to work editing photos on California's central coast and after we moved to a building with loads and loads of skylights, and got a bunch of new glossy-screen iMacs, it was really hard to get color accuracy if you wore anything but a black or white shirt. It was like staring at a mirror all day long. Eventually we got umbrellas to blot out the sun and that helped.
- EricLemieux 8y ago
  What plugin are you using in firefox? I have just been using stylus and using dark themes for sites I use often, but would love a more automated approach, especially for sites I don't use that often.

dasmoth 8y ago

Natural light is good, but the office isn't the place I crave it the most. And as other have alluded to, I'd much rather have a dingy personal cave than a bright but shared space. So #1 perk for me: enough schedule flexibility that I can ensure I can have some outdoor time during daylight hours every day, even in winter.

juanuys 8y ago
Yes, this is why I try and get WFH gigs over winter so I can do a lunch-time run. Getting up at 6AM in winter for a run isn't going to happen ;-)

williamlucas 8y ago

You know we human should use more natural light in our office but their is no hard and fast rule for the same. People are so busy in their rut routine that they cant even handle a day off outside with family. https://www.assignmenthelp4me.com/my-assignment-help.html https://www.assignmenthelp4me.com/my-assignment-help.html

yitchelle 8y ago

Is this really considered a perk? It is a bit like getting paid is a perk. I work in Germany where direct access to natural sunlight is part of our OH&S policies.

myspy 8y ago
Thank you, I wanted to point this out too. Awkward how other countries think about work environments.
baby 8y ago
I’ve worked in an office without windows, really takes a toll on you.
- tomkat0789 8y ago
  Yep, I've never worked in a room with windows. It leads to what I call coal miner syndrome: go in before the sun rises, leave after it sets. Bums me out, particularly during the winter. :( Luckily, where I work now, we're getting a new office, and when the manager presented the plans, one of the first questions was, "Who gets the window seats!?"
- executesorder66 8y ago
  I think their point was it's so obvious that it shouln't be considered a perk. "I've worked in an office without getting paid, really takes a toll on you." Sounds ridiculous. Why would you work without getting paid? Same for natural light.
- ehnto 8y ago
  Likewise. It's insidious if you don't realise that's what's causing you to feel horrible. You start to think you hate your job, but it's just the workspace that's causing you to feel trapped and anxious. Like some other people have mentioned, you start wondering if you might prefer to work construction or in a food truck or just anything so long as it's outside. But really you can get most of the way outside with a good office space and you may find you enjoy your job a whole lot more.
- 8y ago

invalidusernam3 8y ago

For me, it's aircon

adwww 8y ago
I hate office aircon. There always seems to be a lag between hot weather starting and the ac getting ramped up, and the other way around, hot weather over, AC still on full blast. I keep 2 different jackets in my office locker to wear at my desk in the middle of summer, because I don't know how hot or not it will be at my desk. At least in offices without it, I know to dress appropiately based on the weather outside.
PascLeRasc 8y ago
Have you tried open windows + a light breeze + background sound from outside + natural light with the inside lights dimmed a bit? That's the good stuff, whether it's 60 or 90F.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago

Every day I am the first to show up at my company, and I get maybe ~ 1 hour of nice, quiet work time with low lighting from the windows with overhead lights off. Then the second person who comes in every day shows up and flips all the overhead lights on every god damn day. When I’m working and the lights flip, I get a sense of rage and depression. I think it will be the reason why I quit this job.

sleepychu 8y ago
I don't want to condescend but have you tried talking to the person switching on the lights? Maybe you could come to a compromise.
- Jach 8y ago
  It'll just be the third or fourth person then. Talk to the office manager if you want to enforce a natural light time from the top.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  Then I’m just the whiny asshole or primadonna or something. It’s not possible to have these preferences treated in an adult way in modern corporations, and anyone the issue got escalated to will just see it as whining. You have to keep your head down and act like it’s Candide: whatever your company currently does is the best possible thing they could ever do.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    "Then I’m just the whiny asshole or primadonna or something." The way you approach doing this goes a long, long way toward how you're perceived. "It’s not possible to have these preferences treated in an adult way in modern corporations, and anyone the issue got escalated to will just see it as whining." I imagine you think this is the case because you see others asking for similar types of things as also being "whining". All you have to do is ask politely and calmly, and things should be fine. You might not get your way, but asking for something isn't automatically seen as "whining" by most people.

Kiro 8y ago

I always have all the blinds closed in my apartment and I work from home. I get very little natural light. Any reason I should force myself to get more?

EliRivers 8y ago
Just the health benefits, I suppose.
coldtea 8y ago
If you don't care for your health, no. In any case, the ill effects will only show up after decades of such a habit (and they wouldn't be directly and easily attributed to it), so no need to be concerned with it now.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  OK I guess I'll stop brushing my teeth too...
  - coldtea 8y ago
    That was sarcasm! I thought the "If you don't care for your health, no." part made it obvious
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      I don't seriously suggest that anyone not brush her teeth. However, it's a fact that many people don't take care of their teeth for decades before suffering the consequences. If one lost one tooth every three years, one would probably improve one's oral care. However, with periodontal problems, the teeth often hang on for a really long time, before all failing at pretty much the same time. Since lots of people don't take care of their teeth even though they know they should, some people will avoid all sunlight.

adiusmus 8y ago

Not a perk. I fired an employer for failing to provide natural sunlight for a reasonable amount of time throughout the day. I’ve also rejected offers involving lack of sunlight. One place adjusted to this requirement quite well. Apparently I was the first candidate to even bring this up when I asked about the working environment. The cost to my health is measurable.

wackro 8y ago
> I fired an employer I like your attitude. I'm currently gazing down a glass-ceilinged atrium so will not be firing anybody for the time being.
em-bee 8y ago
when our teams office got moved from another city into the basement of the main office, i threatened to quit unless i got a desk by the window. the building was on a hill, so the basement did have an open side out to the back with windows by the entrance. space was a bit small but they managed to custom-fit a desk so that i could sit there. greetings, eMBee.
PascLeRasc 8y ago
You're my hero. I'd like to hear about what else you consider essential before hiring an employer.
- adiusmus 8y ago
  Well it’s called a job interview for a reason. Inter+view. Prepare for interviews as if you’re hiring them and you’ll have plenty of questions. Your employer needs to deliver as much as you do. Negotiate! I know it’s a different mindset. Do it long enough and you realise you might as well work for yourself. Or work on contracts and sub out what you can’t directly do but are willing to manage. My old mindset when I started out was that employers know everything and are all powerful. In reality they had better have more experience than you in multiple ways or they’re going to be fired either by the market or when you have to quit (which is obviously you firing them).

pdpi 8y ago

At some point I the worst of both worlds — a desk directly underneath a corner frosted glass skylight/window combination, meaning impossibly bright light in the early afternoon (making my display quite hard to read), and no effective nearby artificial lighting when it started getting darker. Took me maybe a month to find another job after my boss insisted I couldn't move my desk elsewhere.

jccalhoun 8y ago

I thought the article was talking about Natural Light https://www.naturallight.com/ https://www.naturallight.com/

rdl 8y ago

Maybe natural light is a perk because it is nice to have (sometimes), but a door/actual office with a lock and soundproofing would then be a minimum baseline requirement. (I’d honestly prefer windowless to a window I couldn’t control, too. Windows with effective shades are nice, particularly if they can be opened for fresh air, but I’d be completely fine with a windowless office with a substantial door, great artificial full spectrum lighting, and HVAC under my control 24x7. Especially if my door and lock had a security rating.

ourmandave 8y ago

I also read you can't fake it with a picture of a sunny day or whatever. I have no windows so I make sure to at least walk past one on the way to the printer and back.

gambiting 8y ago

Oh yes please. I work as a games programmer at a massive studio and it looks like 90% of people here prefer complete darkness during the day, to the point where they have these umbrella-like covers above their desks to cover any light from the lamps that somehow miraculously are still on. Me and few other people occupy a little corner next to a window that we stubbornly refuse to close the blinds on, despite bi-weekly requests to do so from our artists. If I had to work in the darkness I'd genuinely consider leaving - it gives me a headache.

taneq 8y ago
I think it's interesting that the comments here seem almost universally in favour of bright natural lighting, when clearly there are plenty of people (at least in gamedev) who feel otherwise. I tend to prefer a dimly lit room and am perfectly happy with the only light being from my monitors. Then again as an ex-gamedev troglodyte I'm also happiest working from 3pm-1am...
- nilkn 8y ago
  One fairly universal current I've observed though is a dislike for strong artificial lighting, particularly overhead lighting. I can work very productively in an abundance of natural light or in a basically dark room lit only by the glow of monitors and RGB accessories, but put me in a room without windows and with supermarket-style lighting and I'll be miserable. In my home office, I'm fortunate to have both a large window and a simple IKEA floor lamp (something like this: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10394129/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10394129/). I alternate between the two, but never turn on the overhead lighting on the ceiling fan.
  - gh02t 8y ago
    Part of that might be the harsh nature of fluorescent lighting used in a lot of offices. Natural light is broad spectrum, but typical fluorescent lighting is a few sharp peaks. Combined with the 120 Hz flicker common in many I find them pretty unpleasant, especially for long periods of time. I find I don't mind higher CRI and higher frequency lighting nearly as much. You can get that in fluorescent lights and they're not as bad as they used to be, but the really good ones are expensive.

k__ 8y ago

lol, the anti-remote propaganda gets more ridiculous every day.

Jach 8y ago
And the health nuts. Or just anti-night propaganda. I love working at night when it's super dark regardless of windows and the only light is from my screens.

perseusprime11 8y ago

Isn’t having a good boss the #1 office perk?

lghh 8y ago
That's not a perk, it's a requirement.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

I really wish it was possible to somehow use my laptop outside when it's sunny. It's a shame to spend the prime hours of the day inside, and then spend all your spare time in the dark at night. I get really jealous of the construction workers when it's a nice sunny day outside. I've worked a few different outdoor jobs, and there's nothing quite like working on a sunny day, it really lifts the spirit.

inawarminister 8y ago
I've bought an Amazon Kindle Paperwhite recently, and spent a few hours under the mid day sun in the riverside reading some books. It's worth it just for that! Shame there is no e-ink laptop sometimes soon, most likely...
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  If they could make a 11" or larger e-ink display with a 24 Hz refresh rate, I'd buy it in an instant.
crehn 8y ago
When it's really bright outside, switch to a monochrome, black on white terminal theme with a huge font. You'll be able to work anywhere without noticing dust or greasy fingerprints on your screen. Plus it's an exercise in minimalism.
egypturnash 8y ago
I have a shade for my laptop I made out of black illustration board and tape. It sticks to the magnets in my Mac’s lid. I have done a lot of work outside in the park. There are commercially made shades too. Look around.

another-cuppa 8y ago

I think some comments are missing the point. I used to work in an office that definitely had "natural light" because it did have windows, but the view from the windows was basically just other grey buildings about 10 metres away. I now work in an office where I can look out and see grass, trees, and the sky, and it's much nicer.

ehnto 8y ago
Trees and greenery in general take a space from "concrete wasteland" to "human living space" for me. I have no idea why we build plazas as big concrete slabs. Who thought that was what people wanted? Who has every thought to themselves, gee, I sure wish there was more flat concrete to look at.
- jrockway 8y ago
  > Who thought that was what people wanted? You don't have to pay someone to mow the concrete slab, I guess. (And in the winter, don't shovel the snow, just make a sign that says: "warning, slippery!")
  - monocasa 8y ago
    It's supposedly so that events are easier to setup as "it's a more free form space". IMO it doesn't really make it all that much easier, and looks like shit when an event isn't going on.
- betterworldb 8y ago
  It's modernist design. And it sucks.
  - gjhicks 8y ago
    Maybe bad modernist design or the out-of-favor brutalist design. Modernist design does not favor large slabs of flat concrete. Really, no form of design does. So, it's really just bad design.

syntaxing 8y ago

I luckily currently work in a place with a good view and natural light (though the ceiling light is on all the time too). I worked at many places where the engineers worked next to a clean room so everything was surrounded by closed off walls. I like to call it the dungeon. It really sucked during the winter since we do not notice how much snow accumulated until we left.

p2t2p 8y ago

+1. I sit next to a window and enjoy it very much. I used to sit in a middle of the hall and it was so freaking depressing - no daylight at all, always lamps that I needed to ask a guy who didn't care to swap with me.

srge 8y ago

Very often on TV when I see office spaces in the US, I see rarely natural lights. They often seem to be underground or inside some refurbished industrial buildings. Here in France we all have well lit offices with natural lights and windows. Well not all but the vast majority. To me it seems punitive to work in a blind/artificially lit office.

rplnt 8y ago
I'd guess the number one reason is it's easier (cheaper) to film if you don't have to fake natural light.
- srge 8y ago
  Not only films but documentaries or YouTube videos. Seems like a lot of workers in the US are working in such environments.

tdehollain 8y ago

I sometimes wonder how light fixtures that mimic natural light are not a thing yet. They exist, but somehow they remained a niche product.

Aeolun 8y ago
Even if they were used, nothing beats a window.
aaron695 8y ago
> They exist Not so sure they do. I came here to see if that was the case. If they exist they are very expensive! Here's an example that cost $$$$ and I'm still not sure of the quality. http://www.coelux.com/ http://www.coelux.com/ This has been a know problem for decades (longer?) the elusive light bulbs that create real light. Billion $ invention if you can solve it.
JackMorgan 8y ago
Oh they do, but they are expensive and rare. http://www.coelux.com/en/products/index http://www.coelux.com/en/products/index I have been trying to figure out how to make my own, but it's tricky.
- tdehollain 8y ago
  I initially thought "it must be pretty expensive, like $1,500"...but no, it's actually $30,000!! No wonder you're trying to build it yourself.

martinwww 8y ago

or CO2 concentration under 1000 ... in our building they somehow trying to save money on air conditioning so we don't consider air in the office to be 'fresh' as there's usually ~1500ppm - 2000ppm CO2 concentration.

LeifCarrotson 8y ago
For others who may be curious, outdoor mean CO2 concentration is currently 410 ppm. CO2 concentrations under 1000 ppm are described as having 'good air exchange'. CO2 between 1500-2000 is unpleasant, causes drowsiness and feels stale and gross. 5000 ppm is the typical workplace health limit. Some guidelines are based on 1950s air quality, which had 250-350 ppm CO2. Today, you need more circulation to maintain acceptable CO2 levels than you did 50 years ago because the outdoor air has a higher concentration.

Invictus0 8y ago

I'm a mechanical engineer. Engineering workplaces are notorious for poor sunlight exposure. Even the big tech companies develop their products in windowless rooms. And forget it if you have to go anywhere near a factory floor, it feels like you're in a cave.

hakkoru 8y ago

I work in a SCIF. The most natural light I get at my desk is the sun peeking out of the blinds in the morning. In addition, we keep most of the lights off, for that underground bunker aesthetic I'm assuming. One of the SCIFs here doesn't even have windows. I don't mind it that much, and I usually leave work while the sun is still out. I can see some people having an issue with it, however.

laythea 8y ago
Although I could easily google it, I am surely not the only one who has no idea what a SCIF is, and would have appreciated it to be broken out. Otherwise I have no idea what your talking about.
hindsightbias 8y ago
Why would a SCIF have outside windows?
- hakkoru 8y ago
  It can be hard to avoid if you're renting a space and you can't afford to be picky.

l33tbro 8y ago

Currently working alone in my own windowless office in an almost completely windowless building. Compared to the previous 'open-plan' gig where I sat opposite opposite Jill-from-Comms and Sales-bro Bryan, it rules so hard. So yeah,"the #1 office perk" for me is not getting interrupted with inane shit every ten minutes.

Sileni 8y ago
I will never work in an open plan building again. It left me absolutely brain dead and begging the clock to go faster because I couldn't think at work anyway.
- dijit 8y ago
  I'm with you, it's like my brain turns off when I'm there, no amount of noise-cancelling headphones can stop me noticing movements in my periphery or the feeling of possible immediate jarring interruptions if I have my back to the room. I get all my day-work done in the evening, when I'm in the office I just browse reddit or read HN because; unless I'm in a meeting or talking to a colleague- I cannot possibly be productive. (I _really_ did try to avoid Reddit/HN but after 2 years of doing basically nothing above a 10 minute task I couldn't do it anymore, I was bored.) And my company still trucks on with an open office policy. :(
  - Timmah 8y ago
    > no amount of noise-cancelling headphones can stop me noticing movements in my periphery Or the shaking of the floor. I worked in a "modern" high-rise of a well known company with open offices and the floor felt like it was made of Ikea particle board skin of an under-floor giant African drum.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    People have different priorities. Having worked in both environments, if I had to choose between a private windowless cave with no sunlight and an open bullpen fishbowl with ample natural light, I’m picking the fishbowl every time. You can wear headphones to block out the noise, but it doesn’t work to just hang a picture of the sun on your wall.

rootbear 8y ago

This is amusing to me, because when I was at Pixar, many of the shader writers and lighting TDs wanted an internal office, where they could control exactly the amount and type of light in their workspace. Many had nearly pitch black offices, so they could better see subtle differences in changes to their lighting and shading code.

crehn 8y ago

I love natural light, and our office has huge windows and is at the top floor, but unfortunately many developers prefer working in the dark. It's a bit depressing sometimes.

ptero 8y ago

I am curious whether it is the light or the view that makes the difference. If it is the light I wonder if a technical fix is possible: a short waveguide and/or a few mirrors into a "micro sun" diffuser in the room instead of a light bulb? It should be relatively cheap if the benefits are as big as claimed.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
I think it's the view - we have blinds you can see out of but darken the space by a ton, and everyone keeps em down all the time.

hatsubai 8y ago

The interesting thing is that too much light can take its toll on productivity as well. When I was working at another company, it was inside an essentially "all glass, modern" building on the top floor overseeing a creek which led to the Bay. Between about 10 am until 3 pm, everyone would always scramble to find whatever random objects they could to block the light because management never paid for any blinds. We'd grab task boards, company banners, and anything else we could get our hands on so we could block the sun and work. We'd have to constantly shift them, or ourselves, as the sun changed positions, which created some awkward situations when half the team began to huddle in one small, shady area in the building at peak times. Needless to say, as someone who prefers darker environments, my productivity wasn't quite as high as I would have personally liked.

H1Supreme 8y ago
My desk gets the full force of the sun after noon. I have blinds, and still build a makeshift sun-blocker out of an old box. Too much light can definitely be a negative.

ishikawa 8y ago

Natural or not, the most important for me is not to get on my eyes or reflecting on the screen.

deleted 8y ago

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jghjg 8y ago

Our office has lots of natural light, that would be enough and perfect, and also lots of fresh mountain air. Of course, artificial light and freaking air coinditioner is on the whole day.. sigh.. I am the only one that feels like a chicken who is forced to make eggs with all those artificial lights above you? because that is the same strategy they do with chickens, tricking them into thinking is a new day with artificial lights A few times I disconnected the light bulbs around my area, but this trick only works for few days until the first alienated worker comes

flr03 8y ago

I you doubt the benefits of natural light, here is a story from a good friend of mine. Few years back when he was in college, he took an appointment with a doctor because started to feel depressed with no obvious reason (no family drama, health issues whatsoever...). Very quickly the doc asked him where he was spending most of his time, answer: in a classroom with tiny windows, curtain closed and artificial lights.

nine_k 8y ago
Bright full-spectrum lamps help. There are some sold as therapeutic devices.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  Can you attest to that personally? I looked into them for treating SAD and none of the Amazon top-reviewed ones seemed consistent, and I couldn't find much well-regarded literature either.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    I never had a SAD but I put full-spectrum lamps around my apartment, and my entire family approved of that. I think I feel better under that light than under the typical yellow-glow "warm" CFL light, I fell less tired. The lamps are CRI 90-95, a mix of 5500K and 4000K; they produce pretty bright light (4500 lumen in smaller rooms, 6000 lumen in the bigger room, 3000+ lumen in the bathroom), and it's pretty comparable with the light from the window in the summer. Note that I live in a NYC apartment which is not exactly spacious; in a typical house, I'd use 1.5 to 2x the amount of light. One of my friends who happens to have particularly large rooms uses 4 to 6 T8 tubes to light them; the tubes are full-spectrum ones used to light movie sets, something like KinoFlo.

nfriedly 8y ago

I work remote and I lease a private office. I looked at 3 different options and ended up choosing the smallest one because it had the most natural light.

pleasecalllater 8y ago

This is so sad.

chrxr 8y ago

Several people in my team (sysadmins) go to reasonably extreme lengths to eliminate natural light from their working environment...

resters 8y ago

I think this is a testament to how bad flourescent and much LED and Halogen lighting actually is. This is not a limit of engineering, it's a consequence of trying to save money on lighting and energy without any consideration for the ergonomics of the light output. Staring at flicker all day is highly unpleasant (but so is trying to see a screen when natural sunlight glare is shining on it).

cphoover 8y ago

https://products0.imgix.drizly.com/ci-natural-light-4e47720c32369068.png?auto=format%2Ccompress&fm=jpeg&q=20 https://products0.imgix.drizly.com/ci-natural-light-4e47720c...

smudgymcscmudge 8y ago
Is it really surprising that free beer is a popular perk?

INTPenis 8y ago

#1 Office perk: Not being required to be in the office.

betterworldb 8y ago
+1
dboreham 8y ago
Wouldn't that be #0 ?

microcolonel 8y ago

Get some high quality LEDs, like those produced by Yuji[0] (not associated/sponsored), it's the next best thing. Bad LEDs are the worst, fluorescents are second, then incandescents, then good LEDs, then natural light (when it's not too gloomy outside). [0]: https://www.yujiintl.com/ https://www.yujiintl.com/

neonIcon 8y ago

For the most part I agree with the sentiment of this article. However, I am currently in my office with sunglasses on because of the abundance of 'natural light'.. It can definitely be a hindrance at certain times, but overall it is a perk.

kawfey 8y ago

This wasn't the "natural light" I was expecting. I thought this was going to be about a office with free cheap beer. I know of a few workplaces in the US that do feature free alcohol at work, but many times out of 10 someone gets way too drunk and ruins the fun for everyone.

dboreham 8y ago

#2 : a door.

WhompingWindows 8y ago

While my room in the office (with 7 cubes in it) does have 4 windows, they are blocked with strong black metal mesh for security reasons. Also, most of the desks in the room face away from the window, so none of us are actually looking towards windows. It's not ideal, but I use breaks and lunch to just quickly walk around the block and get some perspective on obstacles I'm facing.

TheCapn 8y ago

My personal experience/preference is merely that a "change of scenery" is a highly favorable perk. I have a private office with a window, and after struggling against code for long enough it is so nice to turn my gaze outside and watch the dog park next door. But I say scenery change, because one of my favorite things about my job is that I work off site frequently at industrial plants, agricultural facilities and the like. Its like a moderate vacation to just be away from a desk, even though my laptop is attached to me the entire time. Working in a dingy concrete bunker can be as much of a perk as it is to look out my window. Mostly just monotonous environments tend to be what bothers me most I think. My last job was at a business attached to a mall (you could walk out the doors into the mall food court on the second level). Coffee breaks were often just walking around the downtown core or through the attached public buildings over walkways. Changing your environment is such a massive thing for me to help the day/week/month/years not feel like one long slog

PascLeRasc 8y ago
There was a tweet going around yesterday with around 500k likes about how we all secretly love to rearrange our rooms to get a "new me" feeling. I think a constant change of scenery is really important for us to not get stuck in negative mindsets.
el_benhameen 8y ago
I've always thought it would be cool to be a dev who goes onsite or at least has a job that's physical in some capacity. How'd you end up in your role, if you don't mind me asking?

peterwwillis 8y ago

If a plant can't grow there, I don't wanna work there. (Grow lights & hydroponics are just The Matrix for plants)

DenisM 8y ago

Rarely discussed is the fact that professional phography lighting has high CRI and is not that expensive. There are plenty of LED panels on Amazon that can be rigged to work as desk lights. Also, you can buy a professinal CRI meter so that you can get an idea of what you’re buying here. Outside LED there are also high-CRI CFL lights which are easier to fit into overhead lights compared to LED. Still they need to be measured.

thekingofh 8y ago
Can you explain what you mean? Is this similar to natural lighting somehow?
- DenisM 8y ago
  Photographers like their lighting to be as close to natural as possible for best pictures. They can tell the effect when taking pictures, they have measuring tools to understand the light before taking pictures, and they have equipment (bulbs, panels, etc) made to satisfy their use cases which they can actually evaluate for quality. Light quality is generally measured in CRI (color rendering index), with 100 being sunlight. Best professional photo lights give you up to 97 CRI. I don't know how closely CRI reflects the biological effect of the sun light, but we sort of can judge it by proxy - CRI reflects photography requirements, which correlates with closeness to sun light spectrum, which correlates with biologically positive effects. Even being a proxy, this measuring ability is still vastly better anything we have for the "health" light which you can't really measure except in a control group study which none of us can do. In practice I suggest going to Amazon and shopping for high-CRI lights, such as photography LED panels, about $100-$200 a pop. They're not big enough to light up a room, but they can light up your desk or maybe cubicle. I bought a few and the light is very, very pleasant. Alternatively shop for high-CRI CFL lights to replace the ceiling lights, those can light up the room. I haven't tried that yet though. It might also be useful to buy a CRI meter so that you know where you stand. Expensive as they are, might be still worth it considering the benefits. Also maybe pool money with friends on this - you're not going to use it a whole lot.

AnnoyingSwede 8y ago

Working in a beautiful glass building with very much natural light i still have to claim our bar/free booze is what gets me to work every day.

deleted 8y ago

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wallflower 8y ago

This is an unpopular opinion. You can train yourself to work in relatively noisy environments. The mind is plastic and adaptable. It is not going to happen right away. The first step is to not plug in your headphones when you go to a coffee shop. Enjoy the ambient chatter. Don't try to do any work. After a while, you may try reading a book or a newspaper. It is my belief that headphones can breed dependency on them to focus. Kind of like you may be anchoring your flow state to the simple act of donning your headphones. It might not work for you. Especially if you pre-decide it won't work. Remember the mind is a powerful tool. It may work for you if you start trying out life without headphones.

tdsamardzhiev 8y ago

Ugh, no. My eyes ask for a place as dark as possible, so I can use a white-on-black theme and lower my monitor's brightness all the way down. The #1 office perk for me is silence. Game sudios are so noisy, holly cow!

jay-anderson 8y ago

I was at a company once where they were out of cubical space. There was an available office that had windows so they put some people in there and boarded up the windows.

kisstheblade 8y ago

Haha, where I live we have no natural light even outside half of the year (near the arctic circle). And we are most productive during the dark season because there isn't anything else to do, or any distractions nagging on your mind (like going to the beach etc) :)

jedberg 8y ago

Every place I worked, I optimized for a window seat. I would volunteer to sit next to the loudest and stinkiest people if that's what it took, because those things didn't bother me (noise cancelling headphones and my nose doesn't really work anyway). I would sit far away from all the other amenities, or close to them, whichever was worse, just to get a window. Somehow I got really lucky, and in 16 years of working in offices, I spent about 12 of them near a window (thanks in part to large suburban offices of Silicon Valley that offered lots of window seats). And for the most part I didn't have to deal with loud or stinky people or being far/close to other amenities. Now I work from home, where I can see trees out my window. Sadly, Apple cut some of them down to make room for the offramp to their spaceship, so now I also see lights and power lines, but still tree too.

TomK32 8y ago
Time to put some apple seeds in the ground :)
- jedberg 8y ago
  Ironically, apple trees don't grow all that well near Apple. What they cut down were 80 year old redwoods.
mooze 8y ago
My office recently knocked down a dorm room so that the team sitting in the corner could get some sunlight. Made the area so much more pleasant to work in.

rconti 8y ago

I have my first-ever desk by a window. Naturally, other coworkers jockeyed to also sit near the windows, so they could promptly complain it's too bright and insist on lowering the shades.

markc 8y ago

I highly value a good view, and lucked into a lovely space on the 8th floor in a corner with large picture windows on 2 sides, and views of MIT and East Kendall Square nearby, and Central and Harvard square in the distance. The bottom half of my view is very green, mostly trees, with a few buildings nestled among them. The top half is blue sky, white clouds. I watch the slow progress of several buildings under construction. A huge tower near Central has appeared, the stairway core apparently. Two big projects to the north also, near the cinema and Donnelly field. Soon I'll see the first yellows, reds and oranges of fall. I enjoy the view so much that I brought in binoculars to see more detail. I have a sort of hobby of identifying landmarks visually and then finding them on google maps. This can be surprisingly difficult to do. The relative scale of things is surprising. Things that loom large in my view don't look big on the map, and vice versa. I can visually trace a good portion of my bike path to work, as I live near the top of a distant hill. I identify the landmarks on that route. Despite these treasures I only remember to look up at the view a few times a week. I sometimes forget to open the blinds for days at a time. Very sad! I'm happy that this article reminded me of this great pleasure. It's trite, but life is short; enjoy the view.

silverdrake11 8y ago

I used to sit in a cubicle next to a window in a high rise. I would always get sun shining in my eyes and my face would get red sometimes. I usually ended up with strained eyes and later found out the uvb radiation can cause skin cancer. So I'm not convinced.

ConceptJunkie 8y ago

Natural Light is a big thing, but the #1 Office Perk is not working in an open office. I would trade the open office I work in, which has a ton of windows and natural light, for a regular office, even just cubicles in a heartbeat. I love the natural light, but I hate the noise and visual distraction 10 times more than I love natural light.

zxia31 8y ago

another first world problem

purplezooey 8y ago

no. The #1 office perk is a real freaking office. Not a worn spot on a table and an ikea chair.

tempodox 8y ago

Natural light is overrated. We programmers are olms, sitting in the cellar with the mushrooms.

forapurpose 8y ago

I very much prefer natural light to artificial light. I've wondered, regarding lighting windowless areas: Why don't buildings put natural light collectors ("windows") on exterior surfaces, and use light redirectors ("mirrors" and maybe "fiber") to shunt the light to places that otherwise lack it. The light could be output through the same fixtures that host artificial light sources. (Sensors and dimmers on artificial light sources could compensate for variations in natural light.) It would be much more pleasant than artificial light and it would save energy. Perhaps the ROI isn't high enough.