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White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

• azurezyq 8y ago
  Not sure how long this can last. But factories need time to be built. If the tariff got repealed in less than a year, it's just net negative for US economy and nothing will be really changed. I think generally trade war makes sense as a short time lever for something else, but may be a bad idea for long term growth .
  • nerfhammer 8y ago
    lol you would need 800% tariffs for it to be worth it to build US factories to make these things
• deleted 8y ago
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• luma 8y ago
  As a basement hacker selling goods on Tindie this tariff schedule covers nearly every tool, consumable, and component parts I use in everything I do. My cost of business just went up by 25% today across the board. The full schedule: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig... Example items of interest to people designing electronic goods in the US: ------------------------------------------------ 8532.10.00 Fixed electrical capacitors designed for use in 50/60 Hz circuits and having a reactive power handling capacity of not less than 0.5 kvar 8532.21.00 Tantalum fixed capacitors 8532.22.00 Aluminum electrolytic fixed capacitors 8532.23.00 Ceramic dielectric fixed capacitors, single layer 8532.24.00 Ceramic dielectric fixed capacitors, multilayer 8532.25.00 Dielectric fixed capacitors of paper or plastics 8532.29.00 Fixed electrical capacitors, nesoi 8532.30.00 Variable or adjustable (pre-set) electrical capacitors 8532.90.00 Parts of electrical capacitors, fixed, variable or adjustable (pre-set) 8533.10.00 Electrical fixed carbon resistors, composition or film types 8533.21.00 Electrical fixed resistors, other than composition or film type carbon resistors, for a power handling capacity not exceeding 20 W 8533.29.00 Electrical fixed resistors, other than composition or film type carbon resistors, for a power handling capacity exceeding 20 W 8533.31.00 Electrical wirewound variable resistors, including rheostats and potentiometers, for a power handling capacity not exceeding 20 W 8533.40.40 Metal oxide resistors 8533.40.80 Electrical variable resistors, other than wirewound, including rheostats and potentiometers 8533.90.80 Other parts of electrical resistors, including rheostats and potentiometers, nesoi 8535.10.00 Fuses, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V 8535.21.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage of less than 72.5 kV, but exceeding 1,000 V 8535.29.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage of 72.5 kV or more 8535.30.00 Isolating switches and make-and-break switches, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V 8535.90.40 Electrical motor starters and electrical motor overload protector, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V 8535.90.80 Electrical apparatus nesoi for switching, protecting, or making connections for electrical circuits, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V, nesoi 8536.10.00 Fuses, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V 8536.20.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V 8536.30.40 Electrical motor overload protectors, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V, nesoi 8536.41.00 Relays for switching, protecting or making connections to or in electrical circuits, for a voltage not exceeding 60 V 8536.49.00 Relays for switching, protecting or making connections to or in electrical circuits, for a voltage exceeding 60 but not exceeding 1,000 V 8536.50.40 Electrical motor starters (which are switches), for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V 8536.50.90 Switches nesoi, for switching or making connections to or in electrical circuits, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V 8536.69.40 Connectors: coaxial, cylindrical multicontact, rack and panel, printed circuit, ribbon or flat cable, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V 8536.90.40 Electrical terminals, electrical splicers and electrical couplings, wafer probers, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V 8541.21.00 Transistors, other than photosensitive transistors, with a dissipation rating of less than 1 W 8541.29.00 Transistors, other than photosensitive transistors, with a dissipation rating of 1 W or more 8541.30.00 Thyristors, diacs and triacs, other than photosensitive devices 8541.40.20 Light-emitting diodes (LED's) 8541.40.70 Photosensitive transistors 8541.40.80 Photosensitive semiconductor devices nesoi, optical coupled isolators 8541.40.95 Photosensitive semiconductor devices nesoi, other 8541.50.00 Semiconductor devices other than photosensitive semiconductor devices, nesoi 8541.60.00 Mounted piezoelectric crystals 8541.90.00 Parts of diodes, transistors, similar semiconductor devices, photosensitive semiconductor devices, LED's and mounted piezoelectric crystals 8543.20.00 Electrical signal generators 8543.70.60 Electrical machines and apparatus nesoi, designed for connection to telegraphic or telephonic apparatus, instruments or networks 8543.70.80 Microwave amplifiers 8543.70.95 Touch screens without display capabilities for incorporation in apparatus having a display 8543.90.65 Printed circuit assemblies of flat panel displays other than for reception apparatus for television of heading 8528 8543.90.68 Printed circuit assemblies of electrical machines and apparatus, having individual functions, nesoi 8544.11.00 Insulated (including enameled or anodized) winding wire, of copper 8544.19.00 Insulated (including enameled or anodized) winding wire, other than of copper 8544.30.00 Insulated ignition wiring sets and other wiring sets of a kind used in vehicles, aircraft or ships 8544.49.30 Insulated electric conductors nesoi, of copper, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000V, not fitted with connectors 8544.49.90 Insulated electric conductors nesoi, not of copper, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000V, not fitted with connectors 8544.60.20 Insulated electric conductors nesoi, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V, fitted with connectors 8544.60.40 Insulated electric conductors nesoi, of copper, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V, not fitted with connectors 8544.70.00 Optical fiber cables made up of individually sheathed fibers 9011.10.40 Stereoscopic microscopes, provided with a means for photographing the image 9011.10.80 Stereoscopic microscopes, other than those provided with a means for photographing the image 9013.20.00 Lasers, other than laser diodes 9013.80.70 Liquid crystal and other optical flat panel displays other than for articles of heading 8528, nesoi 9014.10.70 Electrical direction finding compasses 9026.10.20 Electrical instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking the flow or level of liquids 9026.20.40 Electrical instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking the pressure of liquids or gases 9026.80.20 Electrical instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking variables of liquids or gases, nesoi 9026.90.20 Parts and accessories of electrical instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking variables of liquids or gases 9030.20.05 Oscilloscopes and oscillographs, specially designed for telecommunications 9030.33.34 Resistance measuring instruments 9030.33.38 Other instruments and apparatus, nesoi, for measuring or checking electrical voltage, current, resistance or power, without a recording device 9030.39.01 Instruments and apparatus, nesoi, for measuring or checking electrical voltage, current, resistance or power, with a recording device 9030.40.00 Instruments and apparatus specially designed for telecommunications 9030.90.68 Printed circuit assemblies, NESOI 9031.90.54 Parts & accessories of measuring & checking optical instruments & appliances of subheading 9031.41 or 9031.49.70 9031.90.59 Parts & accessories of measuring & checking optical instruments & appliances, other than test benches or profile projectors, nesoi 9031.90.91 Parts and accessories of measuring or checking instruments, appliances and machines, nesoi 9032.10.00 Automatic thermostats 9032.89.20 Automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators, designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system 9032.89.40 Automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators, not designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system 9032.89.60 Automatic regulating or controlling instruments and apparatus, nesoi 9032.90.21 Parts and accessories of automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system, nesoi 9032.90.41 Parts and accessories of automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators, not designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system, nesoi 9032.90.61 Parts and accessories for automatic regulating or controlling instruments and apparatus, nesoi 9033.00.20 LEDs for backlighting of LCDs 9033.00.30 Touch screens without display capabilities for incorporation in apparatus having a display
  • LUmBULtERA 8y ago
    Your cost of business does not include any labor, payments for property, taxes, etc?
    • duncan-donuts 8y ago
      His bottom line just went up in proportion to the cost of his materials. Clearly all of those things still affect his bottom line. On a relevant note -- I hope that consumers are still willing to buy his products now that his prices must go up. It's a bummer that this is really going to stifle the small business innovation from tinkerers like the OP.
  • sctb 8y ago
    Too many examples.
    • luma 8y ago
      It's a small fraction of the overall list. I only included those things which might be of interest to a hobbyist/startup designing and manufacturing electronics for consumer use. The point here is that the list is far-reaching and all-inclusive. If you're looking to start a business making hardware, there is almost nothing that you'd use in the design, prototyping, or manufacture of your device that _isn't_ on this list.
  • maccio92 8y ago
    You can't buy these parts from US companies?
    • sokoloff 8y ago
      You can, but at a substantially higher multiple than 1.25x that the post-tariff rate represents. The electronics supply chain in China is hard to comprehend how strong it is in terms of price and availability.
    • jpindar 8y ago
• natvert 8y ago
  This is insane. The ppl it is going to hurt the most are the tinkerers and innovators. As long as you assemble your completed phone / tv in China it doesn't matter. But for hackers trying to build cool stuff or develop ideas into products, they have to pay 125% more...
  • overcast 8y ago
    25% more, 125% total.
    • natvert 8y ago
      sure... price * 1.25 :) still... crazy.
      • Jyaif 8y ago
        You said "125% more", which is incorrect. If you had said "125% of the price", then that would have been correct.
        • natvert 8y ago
          yes, i don't disagree. this is all beside the point though -- the tariffs will have the opposite of the desired effect though: pushing more assembly to China and making it harder for innovators in the US.
          • dqpb 8y ago
            It's important to be accurate.
          • seatdrummer 8y ago
            The entire point of the reply was to correct the statement, not to dispute your opinion.
  • deleted 8y ago
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• NeonVice 8y ago
  I wish that congress would stop delegating authority to the executive.
  • craftyguy 8y ago
    I wish countries would sanction Trump's companies.
    • ceejayoz 8y ago
      Canada appears to be considering it. http://thehill.com/policy/international/392281-canadian-foreign-minister-wont-rule-out-sanctions-targeting-trump http://thehill.com/policy/international/392281-canadian-fore...
      • gremlinsinc 8y ago
        That would be awesome. I'd love for other countries to not blame ALL of us, for the actions of 1 individual...and would be nice to see him throw a huge hissy fit about it on twitter.
        • tyfon 8y ago
          The 1 individual was democratically elected though so I guess it's just not 1 individual. Now, I wouldn't mind if the rest of the world gave him the stick, but like it or not he does represents and is the figurehead of US so it is your responsibility to deal with his actions.
          • craftyguy 8y ago
            He was directly elected by 304 individuals. You're confusing a democracy with a republic.
          • gremlinsinc 8y ago
            Democratically is a stretch, republic-ly is more accurate. True democracy, everyone could simply vote by a handheld device, without registering to vote, all citizens regardless of criminal background would be allowed, and they'd be given an entire month to do so. Then the popular vote would say who's elected or not. No gerrymandering, technically in a true democracy we wouldn't have a president, though. We'd vote on issues that people bring up and we'd be the policy makers, and electorate at the same time. Personally I like the liquid-democracy prototypes where we can 'delegate' our votes to others on matters when we don't have an opinion or we trust someone else's opinion, but can take that back at any moment if they fuck up. Though, one way to more 'democratize' current elections by simply changing one thing would be having run-off voting. That alone could make elections way more fair, and especially more fair for 3rd parties. We're far from living in a democratic nation though. It's a Republic (at best), but the elitist control, it's really an Oligarchy disguised as a Republic, pretending to be a Democracy.
• mcbits 8y ago
  Does this apply to small quantities imported for personal use?
  • kayfox 8y ago
    Yes.
    • mcbits 8y ago
      Where can I verify this? As I understand it, we already have a bunch of tariffs in the 5% range that only apply to commercial/industrial imports.
  • deleted 8y ago
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• vtange 8y ago
  A lot of argument against tariffs seems to assume that prices in the US will rise and stay increased permanently assuming production stays in China. Wouldn't the downsides of tariffs actually only remain until production moves to say, Vietnam, etc.?
  • ceejayoz 8y ago
    Wouldn't that lead to the same trade deficit Trump decries, and thus new sanctions? A production move would be expensive, and presumably hasn't already happened because of cost differences between China and, say, Vietnam. You might be able to keep the cost increase down, but not non-existent.
  • hangonhn 8y ago
    No. It's not that easy to move. Factories don't work in isolation. One of the major advantages of China is that all the suppliers are located very close to each other so you can get very fast turn arounds. Some people have the mistaken notion that it's only because of cheaper labor, which is only partly true. But in the area where a lot of the manufacturing is happening, Shenzhen, labor cost isn't that cheap because the cost of living has skyrocketed. This is an old but really insightful article on why manufacturing happens in China: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=1&ref=charlesduhigg&pagewanted=all https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-an... It's similar to why tech startups largely start in or move to Silicon Valley. It's the ecosystem of VC, pool of talent (Stanford, Berkeley, the other UCs, and tech companies), and existing large tech companies. This all can change but not overnight. Wendover Productions did a nice video on manufacturing in Shenzhen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Jfrzkmzyc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Jfrzkmzyc (Highly relevant to the big picture and issues around the tariffs)
    • dv_dt 8y ago
      This is similar to the the original dynamic that allowed Silicon Valley to be Silicon Valley and produce ICs, then computers, home computers and game consoles, etc.
  • 8y ago
• kayfox 8y ago
  So, to encourage manufacturers in the US to build more stuff in the US, they will increase tariffs on components so that it will cost even more to build something in the US than to build it in China. Good plan, hello Canada!
  • nodesocket 8y ago
    You realize that Democrats are supporting these tarrifs on China as well. China has already won the trade war by dumping steel and aluminum and stealing intellectual property for decades. This isn't even controversal.
    • uniacid 8y ago
      Who said anything about Democrats? also last time I checked the majority of the US Government is controlled by Republicans.
      • sremani 8y ago
        I think he wanted to highlight the bi-partisan support for the action.
        • nodesocket 8y ago
          Thank you, I'm glad you were able to deconstruct the sentences critically instead of emotionally triggering.
          • atomi 8y ago
            Maybe, but both sides aren't the exact same.
            • ianai 8y ago
              I don’t think I’ve heard any Democrats voice support for the tarrifs. Got any sources for that?
• forkLding 8y ago
  Wonder how Apple is taking this EDIT: Interesting, didn't know Apple manufacturing policies until now.
  • kayfox 8y ago
    They don't manufacture devices in the US, so they should be fine.
    • maxwell 8y ago
      They partnered with Flextronics to assemble the Mac Pro in Texas.
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  • mreome 8y ago
    Apple doesn't assemble their devices domestily. This tariff does not include complete phones. I'm sure they are perfectly fine with these tarrifs, they are a barrier for potential competitors who don't already have established supply and assembly facilities in China/Tiwaian.
    • maxwell 8y ago
      Mac Pro is assembled in Fort Worth.
    • rsynnott 8y ago
      They assemble Mac Pros in the US. They've also apparently been considering assembling some other stuff in the US; I assume those plans have come to a screeching halt.
      • mreome 8y ago
        Thanks for the clarification. As you say though, this will likely stop further domestic assembly operations from being established. It will be business as usual for the big players who do assembly in China, the rest will be encouraged to move them back there. In no way does this seem like it could have the intended effect.
• rsynnott 8y ago
  > It includes a broad range of components used in electronics manufacturing, specifically naming touchscreens, batteries, and electric motors. General components like transistors are also named on the list as well as more specific components used in televisions, cameras, and radio receivers. [..] Notably, the list does not include cellphones or completed televisions. So, this will, er, serve to discourage companies from making consumer goods in the US, with buying consumer goods from China becoming relatively more attractive? Doesn't seem very well thought out.
  • kevin_b_er 8y ago
    Made in USA electronics goods are now more expensive via tariffs because the equipment and the components are now more expensive. Brilliant.
    • rsynnott 8y ago
      Well, more likely the companies making them will just move production elsewhere or go out of business. Components are big part of the cost of your average consumer device, and margins mostly aren't high.
      • projectileboy 8y ago
        It depends a lot on exactly what kind of production facilities we’re talking about moving. Simple plastic injection mold shops? Sure, maybe. Multi-billion dollar chip fab plants? Not so much.
        • freehunter 8y ago
          Right. It is extraordinarily difficult to just pack up a high-tech factory and move it to another country. Actually moving the plant and machines is the easiest part, the hard part is the people. Training people to be experts at high tech jobs takes a lot of time, and even then you're losing the decades of experience and the high concentration of likewise experienced and well-trained suppliers nearby. Of course we could just move the people here too, but our current immigration policy doesn't seem too fond of that approach either.
• luma 8y ago
  I guess my earlier comment was too long, so let me provide a shorter version: this action actively harms anyone attempting to design, prototype, and manufacture electronic devices in the US. There isn't a single component in the projects I'm currently working on which isn't impacted by this. My cost of goods just went up by 25% across the board today in an effort to help "protect" American businesses. I don't feel like I've been protected by this. The full list: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig... Earlier comment (now hidden) with a list pertinent to hardware developers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17320653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17320653
  • deleted 8y ago
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  • YesThatTom2 8y ago
    NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to see fail. By the way... this strategy will work as long as the entire rest of the world doesn't figure it out, keep their tariffs low, and have the supply chain move to them instead. So PLEASE don't let anyone in the EU, Africa, South America, Canada, Central America, or Indonesia see this comment! We only have to keep this secret for another 49.9 years! P.S. I'm not joking. That's is the strategy he's following.
    • atomi 8y ago
      But isn't the reason these products are made in China because it's inherently both more efficient and cost-effective? You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?
• anon23423532 8y ago
  It's punishment for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP, illegally subsidizing businesses to steal market share, and general national security by not outsourcing knowledge and infrastructure critical to national security to save a few bucks. It's easy to let someone push you back inch by inch instead of fighting back, but eventually you're on the edge of a cliff and have nowhere else to go. I'd take short term pain over one day waking up and realizing that China has total control over manufacturing for everything essential for modern life and in exchange we got cheap consumer goods for a few years.
  • EpicEng 8y ago
    I don't know why you're being downvoted; China absolutely does all of those things. They are not playing fair in the global market and never have. One can debate whether or not the tariff is the right approach, but let's not pretend that China is a victim.
    • tehbeard 8y ago
      GP never said China was a victim, just that a tariff screws over US companies, not China.
      • anon23423532 8y ago
        If manufacturing moves elsewhere and a few million already disgruntled Chinese are out of jobs, Chinese government has big problems. Their impotent threat towards the US ag industry is also laughable when we produce 40-50% of the worlds soybeans and corn. Increasing food prices for the millions of unemployed workers is surely a winning strategy Cheap labor is plentiful, there's only one US consumer market. China has no leverage here.
        • elago 8y ago
          I'm curious how are you coming up with these economic projections? Are you running simulations? Reading reports? Are you an economist? What if China just sells to other customers? What is China subsidizes it's manufacturers, so they get paid and keep their production capacity whether or not they're actually producing? Exactly like soybean and corn farmers in the US are btw. The whole thing seems incredibly complex, and most of the economic opinions I read about don't say "markets are better when the goverment skims 25% off of all transactions". So I'm curious how you immediately come to the conclusion "USA Wins, China has no leverage, game over".
• delbel 8y ago
  Here is the list https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig... Tractors, fork lifts, agricultural equipment Lathes Milling Machines LED's Lithium batteries Touch screen Not a lot of electrical "tech" goods besides these three above, maybe PCB and GPS equipment. About the tractors, milling machines, and lathe. I like this, because the new products that are available ... are chinese crap. But they are so cheaply made, and impossible to fix. Every small farmer knows you want an old one, and rebuilt. They built the Massey Ferguson 35 , which came out I think in 1955, made up until 2002 a great small 44hp tractor. You want a new small tractor, it'll come from India or China and it'll break down fast with electrical issues. Maybe not a Japanese one, however. I was asking my mechanic why we don't just start building the old ones here, they said they just can't compete. It would be great if we started making them here again. The same goes for Lathe and Milling machine, if you want a good one, you need to find "old iron" and rebuild it (if it needs it). It doesn't appear that CNC parts are on this list, so you can still buy cheap chinese CNC parts to upgrade it. The other stuff on the list, coincidentally, I am very interested in. Basically I am getting into hemp products and wanted to, at a hobbist level, build some of these machines for personal use. Now I want to investigate if there is a market for american made agricultural machines for hemp. I don't see a lot of "tech" on this list, might be overblown. These are things we need to make here, make them right, and of high quality.
  • kingosticks 8y ago
    That list is full of electronic components towards the end. I hear transistors are in quite a lot of things these days.
  • megaman22 8y ago
    Even with the US-manufactured heavy equipment, it's a little bit of a poison pill to buy anything new. It's excessively digital, which is a big problem when you are out in the shit and break down, besides being less reliable in general. Older equipment is overwhelmingly hydraulic and relatively simple, and there's a strong market of aftermarket parts because this stuff has been around a long time and is virtually indestructible if maintained. Equipment from the 80s or 90s, and even earlier, is holding its value very well because of this. Not unlike the situation we see with previous generation MacBook Pros.
• stusmall 8y ago
  I used to do a lot more embedded systems work. I've been 100% software lately and, looking at this list, I'm glad I started on that transition. I don't know what the exact BOM impact would have been on past projects, but it would have been rough. I can't get over this Don Quixote-esque crusade. This just hurts American competitiveness.
  • Spooky23 8y ago
    That is Putin’s point. That’s why there is a lot of investment in influence of the awful sources of information used by the President. Hopefully, when this guy is gone we look at reigning in the power of POTUS, which is clearly too strong now.
    • stusmall 8y ago
      We'll see. The reason why the president has this power is congress also abused it. The ideal countermeasure for this is an educated electorate who doesn't fall for the false promises of trade barriers. As long as people buy into the lie of protectionism, there will be someone selling it.
• hugh4life 8y ago
  https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/fact-sheets/2018/june/section-301-product-list-fact-sheet https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/fact-s... "The 284 product lines being proposed will now undergo further review in a public notice and comment process, including a hearing. After completion of this process, USTR will issue a final determination on the products that would be subject to the additional duties. USTR will provide an opportunity for the public to request exclusion of a particular product from the additional 25 percent duty. USTR will publish the details of this product exclusion process in a subsequent Federal Register notice."
• oliwarner 8y ago
  The idea is to get the US making their own stuff. If you can tip the scales to the point it's cheaper to make it locally, somebody will... ... Eventually. That takes a lot of time, and raises prices across the board leading to inflation and unemployment. It's a very risky roll that could easily backfire in the most spectacular way.
• noonespecial 8y ago
  Sure does smack of tossing ol' Briar Rabbit into the briar patch. "Punishing" them by making their finished goods a ton more competitive by kneecapping our own industry? Wha?! Forget Russia, should we maybe be looking into what China may have done to get this guy elected?
  • chrisjc 8y ago
    > Forget Russia, should we maybe be looking into what China may have done to get this guy elected? You don't think they could be related?
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• mrobot 8y ago
  Can anyone speculate as to how this changes the landscape with respect to Foxconn and their new electronics manufacturing presence in the United States? They do manufacture a lot of technology. What might be different after the tariff vs before for this new United States presence? Will it work just like other United States corporations or is it different because it is international with a Chinese presence?
• yohann305 8y ago
  Is there a list of which American companies directly benefit from this?
  • noobermin 8y ago
    Trump's ego.
• will_brown 8y ago
  Since my prior comment was downvoted into obscurity, I’ll jump on yours and reiterate my point and ask... What do you manufacture? Would you be interested in a startup that offered you a waiver of these tariffs? My prior point was you will start seeing start ups pop up left and right offering “tariff free imports/importing for US manufacturers as a service”. Somehow that is controversial enough to be downvoted without a reply I’m not sure why.
  • kec 8y ago
    How on earth could a startup provide that service legally?
    • jerkstate 8y ago
      by manufacturing in the US, perhaps
      • slavik81 8y ago
        How is that "importing"?
      • odorousrex 8y ago
        How does that dodge the tariffs? (Legally) Let's say I'm Apple. I make MacPro's in Ft. Worth, Texas. The parts come from China. I now have to pay 25% more on those parts. However, since I'm Apple, I have manufactures making iPhones in China. So rationally, my best bet is to shut down my US based plant in Texas and move MacPro manufacturing to one of my factories in China. That way I legally dodge the tariffs since the finished MacPros are NOT taxed. While this is good for China, and a net zero for Apple, it kind of sucks for the poor American workers in Texas who are now out of a job.
        • will_brown 8y ago
          Say you are Apple... You create a Foreign Trade Zone, ship your components there and manufacture there...you don’t pay tariffs on those Chinese components. Now the idea with political cronies/tech start ups that can raise SV funding, they will create one and turn around and offer manufacturers the opportunity to use the zone for their manufacturing (a la the Uber of Foreign Trade Zone/Free Trade Zone) Edit: Just checked, and as one might expect Apple already operates out of Foreign Trade Zones
• triviatise 8y ago
  The strategy he is following is hitting them hard and making them come to the table to actually negotiate. The chinese have abused us for quite a long time.
• keo93ndn 8y ago
  You’re considered a consumer of the things this targets Their real concern is protecting the supply side folks. Basically themselves You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down Because no one in this admin has a damn clue Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this The ignorant are shooting themselves in the foot as the ignorant do
  • kinsomo 8y ago
    > You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down > Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this If you wanted to reverse the trend of all the American suppliers getting shut down, and re-build the American manufacturing base, what actions would you take to accomplish that?
    • s73v3r_ 8y ago
      What's with this "rebuild the American manufacturing base" part? The US is already one of the top manufacturers in the world.
      • kinsomo 8y ago
        > What's with this "rebuild the American manufacturing base" part? The US is already one of the top manufacturers in the world. Maybe so, but the US's manufacturing currently isn't strong enough to balance its massive trade deficits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa...
      • sheepmullet 8y ago
        Then why are people in this thread so convinced they can't compete with China on components even with 25% tariffs?
        • 8y ago
• oneshot908 8y ago
  On the bright side, at least MAGA hats are made domestically... https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-made-in-america_us_596f9be6e4b01696c6a24918 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-made-in-america_u...
• randyrand 8y ago
  This is the thing I was least looking forward to with trump. So disappointing.
  • kadenshep 8y ago
    I thought the normalization of Nazi principles while debasing the U.S. government was pretty bad. But electronics costing more does really suck.
• canjobear 8y ago
  For the anti-protectionists: Can you direct me to extensive empirical evidence that protectionist policies are harmful in the medium to long term? I often hear that Asian countries have followed protectionist policies for decades, and they seem to be doing well. Norway is also highly protectionist at least with regard to agriculture and as far as I know they have achieved their desired results. When does it work and when does it not work?
  • schmichael 8y ago
    Wikipedia is always a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism#Impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism#Impact Edit: It's also worth mentioning that it is unlikely these tariffs are meant to last in the medium-to-long term. This is a trade war so knowing what's a long term strategy vs a short term tactical maneuver is intentionally obfuscated in order to maximize leverage against the opponent. Each side is just trying to rack up bargaining chips before sitting down and coming up with comprehensive trade agreements. Or... that's how things could work. You can never know anymore.
    • Buetol 8y ago
      This wikipedia article is a lot more biased than the french version. Here, it’s clearly anti-protectionism by defending the age-old myth of "comparative advantage".
      • et2o 8y ago
        Comparative advantage is the fundamental principal of economics. It is not a myth.
      • aoeusnth1 8y ago
        Wait, I didn't realize the basic principal of comparative advantage was in doubt. I'm a bit confused by your worldview - do you think that every person should produce exactly what only they need and never trade with others? What is the purpose of trade between individuals or groups?
• paloaltokid 8y ago
  A family member who's been an electrical engineer for many decades made an interesting observation: the United States industrialized China. When labor got too expensive in the US, manufacturing moved overseas. Capital became available in China to build and build and build because they knew that American business wouldn't be able to resist the competitive pricing. I still remember overhearing my engineer family member on the phone with an American supplier 15 years ago and the supplier saying "all my factories are in China - the last competitive place left!"
  • watertom 8y ago
    It's even worse. In order to do business U.S. companies had to partner with a Chinese company, and U.S. compnay willingly transfered their IP to their Chinese partner, their Chinese partner then transferred that IP to their partner. the Chinese Government, who then transferred the IP to any other Chinese company that could benefit from the IP. That's how the U.S. supercharged China'a manufacturing while simultaneously destroying the USA's manufacturing. Also the U.S. companies never got the access to the Chinese market they sold their souls to get.
    • adamiscool8 8y ago
      And now the same people responsible are extremely upset that someone's trying to reverse the damage.
    • mistermann 8y ago
      It's absolutely bizarre how almost no one seems to realize this.
• csense 8y ago
  Americans have been told that globalization was the key to prosperity. And yes, today we have wondrous cheap smartphones and all manner of goods made overseas. But if you ever visit the Rust Belt, you'll quickly realize that entire local and regional economies have been shattered by the decline of US manufacturing and haven't yet recovered. Donald Trump won the election in part by recognizing and promising to address this economic problem. This move is an attempt to do exactly that: Fix things by reversing the free trade policies that got us into this mess. Almost everyone here seems united in saying that this attempt by Trump to cure our economic problems will only make the situation worse. If you were the PoTuS, you want to help the Rust Belt become economically viable again, and you have both houses of Congress and the American people behind you, what would you do? Bashing Trump's solution is all well and good, but what's the alternative? Do nothing and let the American heartland's economy rot for another 30 years?
  • krapp 8y ago
    >If you were the PoTuS, you want to help the Rust Belt, and you have both houses of Congress and the American people behind you, what would you do? I wouldn't lie and tell people we can force the world to give a damn about American cars like it was the 1950s all over again, because the world has moved on from that economy, and thanks to automation, even if we brought the factories back, there would be few if any jobs for human beings. We can't look back, we have to look forward, and prepare for the actual future. The coal mines aren't going to open, the days of lifetime employment at the steel mill or auto plant, two cars in every garage and a chicken in every pot are dead. Beyond that, I don't know. It's a complex problem, but failing to recognize complexity, as the President seems to, doesn't actually make it simpler.
  • bontaq 8y ago
    I'm from Pittsburgh. We're doing extremely well focusing on new industries, like healthcare and technology. No one is going to re-open a steel mill.
• jessaustin 8y ago
  If we assume that this sort of thing is of short-term detriment and long-term benefit, isn't now the best possible time for it? Admitted unemployment is lower than it has been in a long time and admitted inflation is still quite low. Complaining about protectionism now and calling for it when the economy is in the crapper would be reminiscent of the Arkansas Traveler... Of course we don't have to make those two assumptions, but they're built into common arguments for protectionism.
  • XJOKOLAT 8y ago
    Bollox.
• sheeshkebab 8y ago
  Great list - industrial, mechanical, electronic equipment and finished products - they frankly should have put 100% tariffs on that or require manufacturing in US.
• jaimex2 8y ago
  Can someone explain the motive behind something like this?
• growlist 8y ago
  Surely this will just encourage closer ties between those outside the tariff area?
• R_haterade 8y ago
  Surprisingly, I'm okay with this.
• Fjolsvith 8y ago
  So what happens with the tariff when it is collected? Does it go to subsidize the industries hit adversely by this?
• Aloha 8y ago
  I guess its harder to make a rationale that a tariff on TV's is for national security - that said, you need to return the assembly work, before you can return the component lines.
• jeffdavis 8y ago
  Question: What effect does domestic tax policy have on international trade, and is it a bigger or smaller factor than tariffs? For instance, if you have very high taxes on things required for production (e.g. wages, etc.) and low taxes on consumption (e.g. sales tax, etc.) then it seems to make sense to try to produce elsewhere and import even if there is no comparative advantage and you have to pay a tariff. Does that explain the U.S. trade deficit at all?
• joncrane 8y ago
  What's more likely: - other countries ramp up their cheap, robust manufacturing capacity to compete with China - design and prototyping moves to other high knowledge worker, high innovation countries without a 25% import tariff on Chinese tech goods
  • et2o 8y ago
    Now items will be completely assembled in China before they are imported. This will just shift even more production to China.
• 089723645897236 8y ago
  If your company relied on some sort of margin related to commodity electronic components: congratulations you were doomed anyway, this just hastens it. Let's face it, hardware is not where the money is. Hardware is a tool of software now and forever. If you can't figure out how to make the money with software to pay for the hardware then forget it! I hear Amazon is hiring again.
• tfolbrecht 8y ago
  Try to understand it strategically. If there's a 25% tariff on Chinese components, it makes Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean, developing-economy players more competitive. If the tariff is projected to last it will cause a sizable diffusion toward other players. Consider also that tech goods growth is projected to continue and China wants to start fabbing silicon. China doesn't want the brakes pumped on that exponential curve.
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• ggg9990 8y ago
  A Chinese tariff would have been great policy 40 years ago. Now it is just stupid.
• fallingfrog 8y ago
  I'm by no means a trump supporter, but let's play devil's advocate here. Suppose that China's leadership had a long term plan to build up their manufacturing base while wrecking ours. So they set up a monetary policy to keep their own wages suppressed and their goods cheap and they heavily subsidize the industries that they want to establish. American corporations go along with this since in the short term it allows them to bust their unions and reduce labor costs. And it's still US companies that own many of the Chinese factories, so from the CEO's point of view they haven't lost anything. Then years later when the job is done and the industries in question have been captured, the Chinese government kindly informs the us companies that they no long own the plants, they have been nationalized. How else could the us respond other than by its own protectionist policies?
• thewileyone 8y ago
  Just wait until China imposes tariffs to services from US headquartered companies.