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How to get rich without getting lucky
- Mononokay 8y agoNaval's always sounded a bit like a Facebook quote bot to me. He reiterates common knowledge in less concise ways than normally said while using the persona of a monk. ...Actually, that can sum up a lot of Tech Twitter.
- madmax108 8y agoHonestly, I think that's true for a lot of VCs. They have to sound like they are smart and know the secrets of the industry so that entrepreneurs reach out to them (and many times on extremely skewed terms). But truth be told, a lot of VCs have been incredibly lucky with 1-2 bets they've made. Just a couple days ago was an article on front page of HN by Sam Altman about how to run a company, whereas he himself has had one failed startup. Softbank exists more or less because of a huuuuge bet on Alibaba which paid off. In the end, I doubt any of these "How to" articles hold up the test of perseverence. But survivor bias aside, it's still interesting to see how VCs think, and helps gain insight into their inner monologue.
- jacquesm 8y agoNot all VCs are created equal. We work for quite a few of them and the range of knowledge, connections, personalities, founder friendliness and ethics is quite broad. As a result of that there are VCs that you really don't want to have anything to do with and VCs that it is a pleasure to work with and that go to bat for the founders of the portfolio companies they've invested in with great regularity.
- Mononokay 8y agoI don't have any particular experience with VCs, but personality-wise the guys at SUSA(Susa? Capitalisation is annoying when it comes to logo vs Twitter) and Homebrew are miles ahead of 99% of the others I've seen, so my first impression is to agree with you.
- seehafer 8y agoI don’t have experience to say beyond seed stage, but at seed stage, especially given the explosion in funds, this is most definitely true. Even as a YC startup, VC interactions I’ve had have ranged from “I could give two shits about you” to “I’m a mensch even when I have to say no”. Founders remember who belongs in what camp and talk to each other about such things a lot.
- madmax108 8y agoInteresting. I wonder, is there something like a Yelp/Glassdoor for VCs? A site where people can post about their experiences with VCs, how they were helpful (Like you mentioned, some VC may be great for retail tech while others for moonshot ventures), where they were unhelpful. How hands on or hands off the approach they took was, how much they look at investing as a culture of growth rather than a business (both are valid options IMHO) and so on. Would really help entrepreneurs make the right choice when it comes to approaching investors right. Of course, this can further boil up or down to investment firms rather than individual investors, based on seried of funding etc.
- jacquesm 8y agoWe do this informally for EU VCs, we have a pretty good idea which start-up will match which VC in our network but we have to be careful to maintain our independence so VCs do not start to feel we are pressuring them to make an investment or that we are seen as a 'stamp of approval'. ("we", me and the team of people that I work with). Because it is a very small world and we're not the (by far) the strongest party in it a negative advice is something I would not do unless there is public evidence that a VC can not be trusted or is unethical.
- irq11 8y agoA former coworker of mine said this years ago, and it stuck with me: ”Silicon valley is full of people who stepped in shit once, and are therefore now experts on horses.”
- madmax108 8y agoHaha... this really needs to be framed somewhere
- tomhoward 8y agoI once heard PG say something like "It's crazy, but the YC startups that succeeded are the ones who followed our advice. The ones who failed, didn't". He's never claimed there's anything particularly brilliant about his advice. Indeed he's joked that his presence in office hours sessions could be replaced by a 3-line shell script. "Make something people want", "talk to your users", "spend less money than you make"... that's pretty much it. I think most of the really good VCs would be similarly modest about the value of their advice. The principles are really simple and easy to convey. The hard part is actually doing it.
- maxerickson 8y agoThe interesting test is whether anyone can usefully predict "Make something people want". If no one is predicting that then the biggest thing YC is doing is making lots and lots of deals.
- tomhoward 8y agoWhat YC tries to predict is whether the founders are capable of making something people want, not whether the product they pitch in the application process is already something people want. They are just looking for founders who can follow the build+release+test+repeat cycle as quickly and effectively as possible, and their claim is that if founders can do that really well in a large, valuable market, they will find success.
- Mononokay 8y agoAt the same time, PG doesn't have this whole "I am righteous and the most intelligent guy around," sort of thing Naval has the impression he is.
- tomhoward 8y agoPeople have accused PG of that. I don't see it in Naval. He's neither excessively/falsely modest, nor an egomaniac blowhard like plenty of others in that sphere. He just shares the concepts he thinks have been beneficial to himself and others in achieving success. His success speaks for itself, so it can't be dismissed as shallow.
- HugoDaniel 8y agoop forgot the "have rich parents","go to an elite school", "be born in a rich country" and some others similar to these.
- jstanley 8y agoThis article was "how to get rich without getting lucky", of course those things weren't in it.
- HugoDaniel 8y agoThat is the premise behind those points and the ones raised by the op: Luck is never part of the equation, just ask your average rich guy from rich families.
- jstanley 8y agoIf you're asking how to get rich without luck, then of course luck is not part of the equation. If you're asking how to get rich at all, then getting lucky is a valid strategy. This article is about the former.
- HugoDaniel 8y agoThat is not how luck works. How do you "strategize" luck ?
- jstanley 8y agoReplace "strategy" with "explanation" if you prefer. If you're starting from a position where you're rich, and you're trying to explain why, luck is a valid explanation. If you're starting from a position where you're not rich, and you want to get rich, you're best concentrating on the things you can control rather than complaining about things you can't control.
- ryanwaggoner 8y agoWhat’s your definition of rich here? Because earlier you said “born in a rich country”, so I guess about a billion of us qualify? Assuming you meant something else, most rich people in America are first generation rich. Of course, growing up here in a middle class or upper middle class household didn’t hurt, but they’re not rich because someone dumped $5mm in their bank account when they turned 18.
- Patient0 8y agoI would recommend reading "How to get rich" by Felix Dennis. He had a sense of a humour, but was quite wise too.
- Singletoned 8y agoHe's also a really good poet.
- tim333 8y agoWas, sadly. Throat cancer got him.
- jacquesm 8y agoIt's a hilarious book but it's not too thick on good advice, the most actionable bits boil down to 'be ruthless'. Felix Dennis rode a wave and rode it well, there are more Felix Dennises in the world (every European country had their own it seems), so it was more a matter of place and time than anything in particular about Felix Dennis. I found his take on being wealthy very refreshing, for that reason alone it is a good book to read. But do pirate it, wasting money on books with titles such as 'How to get rich' is counter to the writers wishes ;)
- jacquesm 8y agoI know very few people that got rich without getting lucky and none of them would have been rich if they had followed this list. The majority of them simply went into finance, consulting or real estate at a young age and invested their income smartly (retrospectively!). After the first million rolls in if you're young enough compound returns will take care of the rest if you can postpone altering your life-style.
- tomaha 8y agoBut one important part of their success was to invest their income. I know too many people that use their money to consume. Investing early in your life is what makes the difference. It's very easy to spend it on little things and claim to not have anything to invest.
- plop_ 8y agoDo you have advices for young people in long term investments ?
- jacquesm 8y agoGo read mr money Mustache (but take it with a grain of salt and ignore the cult bits) and 'the millionaire next door' https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ (the older stuff is better, he's making bank through the blog so caveat emptor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door
- falcolas 8y agoKeep in mind MMM started with a sizable inheritance to kickstart his nest egg and currently works full time talking about living frugally. Take from that what you will.
- jogjayr 8y ago> Keep in mind MMM started with a sizable inheritance to kickstart his nest egg Please provide proof of this. He's never mentioned it anywhere on his blog. > currently works full time talking about living frugally. This he has talked about: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-vs-the-internet-retirement-police/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-... The tl;dr for others is basically, what's someone who is hardworking and driven enough to retire at age 31 actually supposed to do with the rest of their life? Sit in front of the TV? Of course he's going to do some things he enjoys (writing, working on houses, hiking, skiing), and maybe some of those activities will make him money - but he doesn't need the money to maintain his current lifestyle.
- orcdork 8y agoThese read like cold-reading for money - broad generalisations that apply mostly because of their broadness.
- pavlov 8y ago”If you secretly despise wealth, it will elude you.” How to be a Silicon Valley thought leader: talk like a Catholic’s handbook but replace “God’s mercy” with “wealth”.
- zeth___ 8y agoI despise money and I have more than I know what to do with. When the only bargaining chip for a company is one you don't value much negotiations become interesting. I'd rather sit in a dark room and masturbate. Since I can't do that and still have food I have to work. Since it takes so long to not look like I crawled out of the sewer I need to work full time. Since I have to work full time and apparently I have valuable skills (other than masturbating) they have to pay me ridiculous amounts of money to keep me interested. The people who are passionate about their work sound like they are convincing themselves very hard why getting paid so little is good for them. This includes pretty much all 'founders' I've known.
- jerguismi 8y agolol
- zeth___ 8y agoI disagree with everything that guy says and as of two months ago I am a millionaire before I turn 30. Pessimism is what keeps you from following the herd of lemmings over the cliff.
- ericjang 8y agocan you elaborate on what you disagree about?
- zeth___ 8y agoHow much is it worth to you?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- 55555 8y agoHow did you make your money?
- zeth___ 8y agoChange jobs every 6 months or less, insist on a raise between each one. I'm earning just shy of 300k now. I don't see it stopping in the next decade either.
- mmcconnell1618 8y agoThere is an inverse relationship between salary and the number of jobs available at that rate. I think you will find it harder to continue raising your income just by job hopping. You’re going to need to demonstrate you can deliver increasingly higher value to organizations in order to demand higher wages.
- zeth___ 8y ago
- jacknews 8y ago"Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep." If you are earning wealth while you sleep, it must be coming from somewhere. Either it is illusory (eg interest, which is cancelled by inflation), or it is being generated by other people working. "Understand that ethical wealth creation is possible." Thus, this statement is dubious in the context of "wealth while you sleep".
- dirktheman 8y agoWould you consider people who work for you unethical, then?
- Aaargh20318 8y agoLooks to me that in his view the people who work for others are the victims.
- nopinsight 8y agoYou can create software/automation system that works/creates value for users. As a creator, you can ethically derive wealth from that value even when you are asleep. Added as part of a reply: Certain systems create value in excess of individual components you put into it. (That system may include a variety of resources that you pay market costs for, not only just your personal labor.) The creator of the system can earn that excess value because it wouldn't otherwise exist. There is a term for this in an Intro to Economics textbook I read a long time ago, but I can't recall.
- jacknews 8y agotechnically, yes, but you had to work to create it, and probably have to continue to work to maintain it in the face of competition. If you have created some kind of lock-in which allows you to extract rent indefinitely from some initial effort, then you have some degree of monopoly, which would be ethically questionable.
- nopinsight 8y ago
- iicc 8y ago> The Internet has massively broadened the possible space of careers. What does "space of careers" mean?
- v3gas 8y agoSpace is a concept from math which basically means dimensions. It's just a fancy way of saying "there are more career opportunities now because of internet".
- tylerhou 8y agoOr, probably more accurately, mathematicians borrowed the analogy of space to describe sets.
- lustig 8y agoThis was funny! I recognize these conflicting views. The first is the view that math is a fundamental force governing nature. The second is that math is simply a way to describe the forces of nature. I tend to agree with the second view and are often dragged into arguments which has the roots in this difference of viewpoints.
- tylerhou 8y agoI'm not sure if either of your arguments applies in this case; the argument I was trying to make is that the colloquial usage of the word "space" predates the mathematical usage, so claiming that the word "space" in a colloquial context comes from the mathematical context is inaccurate. (This is a purely historical argument and not one of philosophy.)
- peter_retief 8y agoGreat ideas on power, money and influence but you really need to be lucky as well ;)
- Cthulhu_ 8y agoLucky to have the personality and intelligence to do the things he mentions, for example.
- hyperpallium 8y agoIf we define rich as not having to work, it could be achieved with a low income, but low expenses. At an extreme, perhaps, self-sufficiency, using knowledge and technology (even robots?) instead of back-breaking stope subsistence farming. You would be rich, but also poor.
- voctor 8y agoYes, someone can be considered poor because the only thing he/she got is money.
- jerguismi 8y agoHow do you define being poor? My definition: having to think about money or surviving all the time. With stable low-income job or even with small savings without job, you can live quite stress-free life if you keep your living expenses low. Meaning that you just have routines and hobbies that are inexpensive - cook home, live in cheap area, commute with bicycle, etc.
- anoncoward111 8y agoThis is basically my life right now and I am loving every single second of it. Another tip here is to surround yourself with people who also love having low expenses and are adventurous and open minded. My gf originally wanted to plan a vacation that involved a flight, hotel, and nights out on the city. When I took her car camping on the beach 45 mins away from our job and cooked her dinner on the beach, for an all in budget (gas parking food etc) of like $27, she never looked back from her newfound hobby XDD
- gnode 8y agoI think a better term is financially independent. I would say a better definition of being rich is having plentiful wealth such that you enjoy freedoms well above what's typical of the general population, or ones personal expectations. Being poor is the opposite; having wealth that limits your freedoms below your expectations. This is of course relative, but rightfully so.
- keiferski 8y agoI’m going to take a contrarian view and say: figure out why you want to be rich, first. For most people, money is a proxy for respect, status, power, security, social skills, romantic attraction from others, free time, or otherwise. If you can ignore the constant “only rich people are meaningful human beings” message that is blared 24/7 from western culture, you might find that it’s easier to just go after what you want, directly.
- pavlov 8y ago> ... the constant “only rich people are meaningful human beings” message that is blared 24/7 from western culture ... I don't think it's only Western culture that is to blame. Middle Eastern, Indian and Chinese cultures seem to have even more ingrained versions of this core assumption.
- maehwasu 8y agoCorrect. Western culture is probably the least materialistic of all major cultures (500M+ people).
- stochastic_monk 8y agoIt seems to have taken on a literal narcissism in the Snap era.
- akanet 8y agoNarcissism and materialism can be very different things
- stochastic_monk 8y agoI agree. You could even call this flavor a sort of immaterialism, a preoccupation with what isn't actually real.
- shove 8y ago
- xstartup 8y agoWhile he certainly knows how to sound like a guru. There is a far easier way to create wealth out of thin air than reading these tips.
- parf02 8y agoplease enlighten us.
- hguhghuff 8y agoIs Naval rich? I think the most valuable advice in getting rich is from people who are moderately rich. Advice from people who aren’t rich is stupid. Advice from billionaires seems irrelevant because their circumstances are so exceptional. How did the friend of a friend make $20million ... there’s an interesting question. I could give you advice on how to not get rich.... just make what are in hindsight a constant flow of wrong decisions about things that could have led to financial gain. I’m an expert at that.
- ryanwaggoner 8y agoMy guess: looking at his investment track record, Naval is probably quite rich (8-9 figures) and he spends a lot of his time dealing with other pretty rich people, both successful founders and other rich investors. Just a guess though. Edit: https://angel.co/naval https://angel.co/naval Investor in Uber, Twitter, Postmates, Yammer, and about 60 others. Wouldn’t surprise me if that’s a fraction of the total. Not to mention cofounding AngelList. I doubt he’s scraping by :)
- paulsutter 8y agoSurely at least 10 figures (early investment in Uber has returned 10,000x)
- mrnobody_67 8y ago$100m+ for sure with that portfolio. And he got liquidity on his Uber investment with the recent deal that was offered to shareholders.
- jacobush 8y agoWe are just helping out our fellow millionaire friends, by reallocating wealth to them. :)
- tomhoward 8y agoHe was pushed out of the startup he co-founded (Epinions) and walked away with very little. He then sued the the VCs [1], leading to an out-of-court settlement, and used that settlement money to start AngelList. So he went from being not-rich 10 years ago, to being very rich now due to his success with AngelList and related investments. I think the advice he shares in this post is consistent with how he's built his own success. Both Naval and his brother, Kamal, have long been writing and speaking about concepts like stoicism, mindfulness and other techniques for developing good judgement and emotional health, so it's likely these ideas were imparted via their family and have influenced their thinking for a long time. [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/02/06/naval-ravikant-of-angellist-went-from-dot-com-pariah-to-silicon-valley-power-broker/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/02/06/naval-ravikant-of-ang...
- siberianbear 8y agoI got rich in Silicon Valley from my equity compensation. I bounced around various companies and startups. Two of them were successful and had public offerings. Of those two, one was spectacularly successful. Sure, luck played a role. But my pure grit and tenacity also played a role. Taking on hard bugs and solving them played a role: I solved a lot of hard bugs that others couldn't solve. Spending Saturday afternoons at the library reading books on topics like software program management and phase locked loops played a role. Having some talent at hiring and managing people helped. Spending my teenage years writing clever little programs in 6502 assembly language on my Commodore 64 instead of smoking weed and partying helped. Having a strong knack for math and computer science helped. Living simply and reinvesting my profits helped. In my 20s, I couldn't understand why people at my same wealth level in Silicon Valley were often driving $100K cars and engaging in other types of ostentatious spending displays. I was constantly surprised by the people making lots of money who didn't really have any clue how money works. Wall Street has its own game to separate you from your wealth, and they'll do it if you don't understand how the Warren Buffets of the world value equities and read balance sheets. You have to get up and out and play the game to win. If you play, you'll lose a lot of games. When you lose, don't lose the lesson. There is a secret message embedded in every failure. Figure out the message, get up and go at it again. Sometimes, you'll suffer a humiliating failure a few more times before you get the lesson. Of course, someone who is too lazy to go play the game will ascribe success to "luck." And the person who just can't "get" the secret messages embedded in their failures will ascribe success to "luck." I've been dirt poor. For a whole year at the university, I slept on a camping pad on the floor because I couldn't even afford a real mattress, much less a bed. I've also been middle class, and now I'm rich. It's clear that being rich is better than being middle class, and being middle class is better than being poor, but being rich has its own problems. Even if you don't advertise your wealth, malicious actors smell it on you and try to separate you from it. Rich people sometimes say things like, "My only real friends are the ones who were my friends before I got rich." I get that mindset completely. Money lubricates a lot of things in life, but it doesn't completely solve very many issues. The one single thing that I appreciate the most about money is that I'm no longer obliged to sell my own time just to survive. I spent my afternoon today, a weekday, taking a walk in the park, meeting a friend for a late lunch, going to the gym and then reading a book. In my previous life, I would have been stuck at work and wouldn't have done any of those things. I read through the list and agreed with every item. Some are very broad, and I'd add some caveats if I were discussing them in detail. The one that made me think the hardest was "Ignore people playing status games. They gain status by attacking people playing wealth creation games." That's true, but sizing people up and figuring out what "game" they're playing is part of being successful.
- indescions_2018 8y ago>>> Study game theory And you start seeing mini prisoners dilemmas in all interactions. Maybe dated, but still loads of fun: Game of Life John Conway's Winning Ways For Your Mathematical Plays https://annarchive.com/files/Winning%20Ways%20for%20Your%20Mathematical%20Plays%20V1.pdf https://annarchive.com/files/Winning%20Ways%20for%20Your%20M... I'd add probability theory to the mix. Computer Age Statistical Inference is a modern classic https://web.stanford.edu/~hastie/CASI/ https://web.stanford.edu/~hastie/CASI/
- RickJWagner 8y agoThere's a lot of great advice in that post, but too much to digest in one pass. The author is right-- anyone can become rich, if they simply spend less than they earn and invest it for the long run. It's been proven over and over again.
- zer0faith 8y agoMoney is dumb but it is a necessity to move forward in life. Without it we can't provide for our family, possibly not have a family or have the basic every day needs. We become bound to this society that is so focused on money and status that we forget about the little things. Little things like memories, friends who are always there, pride in something you've created, or things you feel at your core. Those things are true wealth and not "having assets that earn while you sleep".
- s-shellfish 8y agoBeing poor reminds me of PTSD honestly, though. You get caught up with wealth and status because every new decision brings you back to a past where your existence was chaotic. It's like the chaos of the past maps onto how you interpret the present. Reminders are everywhere in culture, and I think people get caught up in these games of dominance because the experience of poverty is traumatizing. Even if everything in your life is perfect and functioning optimally, there's still that fear - can't delete memories, and honestly, I think that's the primary motivator for those who hoard wealth in a completely unreasonable, counterproductive fashion. Tragedy and anger, these things push us in directions we do not have perfect control over. These things are hard to heal from, but it can be done.
- ataturk 8y ago"Pick an industry where you can play long term games with long term people." Show me an industry not already over-saturated with rent seekers? "You’re not going to get rich renting out your time. You must own equity - a piece of a business - to gain your financial freedom." Okay, but this is essentially what having a job means, it's just not the same kind of "equity" as the owners have, which is the basis for the age-old struggle between owners and labor. I don't know how it looks in the part of the world where the author lives, but in my part of the world, the "booming economy" doesn't seem so booming. I don't really think the developer job market is even that hot in the midwest, and although I have plenty of capital, going out on my own to do _something_ seems like a great way to just end up broke. I thus have no way of applying what resources I have to anything that is going to build more. I'm thinking of leaving software development completely because of it. I just think the world of "write code, make bucks" is saturated in kind of the same way that the market for any electronic gadget is completely saturated. And I beat myself up over this every day: "Why am I not succeeding with such great resources at hand? Am I just a really shitty entrepreneur?" Perhaps.
- zeusk 8y ago> The most accountable people have singular, public, and risky brands: Oprah, Trump, Kanye, Elon. These are some of the least accountable people I know.
- frockington 8y agoI had the same thought, all 4 of these people have F you money and publicly do whatever they want with zero reprecussions
- 11thEarlOfMar 8y agoThe highest probability for success for the 'everyday person': - Earn as much as you can from your own work. Take a 2nd job, change to a higher paying job, ask for more responsibility and a raise at your current job, go back to school for a more lucrative degree, ... - Spend much less than you earn. Economize, share an apartment, buy an inexpensive car, shop at Trader Joe's and Costco, .... - Learn how to invest. This is really important. The most deliberate and highest probability of ultimate success is likely mutual funds. Individual stocks can goose it, but should only a small portion of your wealth, as they start to bring a luck factor into the mix ... - Protect your investments. Health insurance is really a must in the US, might be a must elsewhere. Work for a company that offers health insurance. Car insurance is a must. Other insurance is probably wise. - Be patient. The compounding effect of investing takes a long time, but once it gets rolling, it's pretty much unstoppable.
- nojvek 8y agoHealth insurance is a must in US because the entire country systematically doesn’t give a shit about how inefficient it is. I guess some people make fat bucks at the expense of people’s lives. My pay + company benefit == $650/month to Anthem. I still end up paying $5000 for all pre-pregnancy costs out of pocket and the baby isn’t even here yet. In Australia it would be 10% of that, purely because they got their shit together a long time ago.
- Someone1234 8y agoIn the US insurance companies themselves are meant to fight to keep prices down, but right now due to a miscalculation during the creation of Obamacare ("Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act") they're incentivized to INCREASE medical costs... Why? The 80/20 Rule ("Medical Loss Ratio" rule). > The 80/20 Rule generally requires insurance companies to spend at least 80% of the money they take in from premiums on health care costs and quality improvement activities. The other 20% can go to administrative, overhead, and marketing costs. Meaning insurance company executive wages can only come out of 20% of your premium, so if the CEO wants that pay increase they have to increase overall healthcare expenditure, premiums, and by extension their 20% cut. While the 80/20 rule was a fantastic idea on paper, it changed insurance company's incentives in such a way so that premium increases are good for them. You might be thinking "but in a competitive landscape people would just switch!" but there's nothing competitive about health insurance, people cannot even pick their own (their employer does) and most employers only offer two of the larger ones from that state.
- erjjones 8y agoIf you were to take a random room of people. Reset all of their incomes to square one. In a few years the same people that were rich to start would emerge "rich" again. Some people are willing to be disciplined and motivated to change. While others talk without the walk.
- heegemcgee 8y agoWhat makes you so sure? Has a study like this ever been attempted?
- k__ 8y agoFunny thing is, most people who talk about how they got rich had some luck in the first place. They got a good paying job or they got a big lump (>50k) of money somehow (heritage, insurance, lottery) Then they talk about how they invested it in real estate or something. The hard part is getting to the baseline needed for profitable investments...
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y agoNo they wouldn't. Most rich people aren't particularly disciplined or motivated to change. They're just lucky.
- u90g4u8904 8y agoFalse. Donald Trump is rich because his dad left him an inheritance. His businesses were fraught with turmoil. If he just kept the money in an index fund, he would be richer than he was today. http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/ http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/ So reset everything to square one, and there's one person who's not going to make it on their wits. Need more examples? How about Bill Gates? No doubt, a very smart guy. But he would not be where he is today without that fateful meeting with IBM, where MS negotiated providing DOS for the PC. How did he get that meeting? His mom worked for the United Way, and knew IBM's CEO. https://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/software/286148-the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-contract https://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/software/286148-the-rise-o... Then consider everything else that led to that day. He grew up in a fairly well-off family which could afford to send him to MIT. He was in the right place at the right time when Gary Killdall dropped the ball. He had the benefit of excellent timing, as the window for establishing OS dominance on the PC was very small. I'm sure Gates would even tell you - his success is, in large part, a product of luck. What I'm saying is, to become rich, it's not enough to be talented. You have to get the right opportunities and seize those opportunities when they come to you. In my experience, there are more people with talent then there are opportunities. So that random room of people is always going to turn out different.
- ikeboy 8y ago>There are no get rich quick schemes. That's just someone else getting rich off you. Eh. There are a handful, they're just unethical and sometimes illegal. E.g. https://www.aqr.com/cliffs-perspective/virtue-is-its-own-reward-or-one-mans-ceiling-is-another-mans-floor https://www.aqr.com/cliffs-perspective/virtue-is-its-own-rew... explains how you can easily beat the market by investing in sin stocks. Similarly, you can make money really quickly if you mess around with grey market goods, shady affiliate networking products, "health" products, etc. But every so often some of those guys get busted.
- tim333 8y agoThe term "rich quick scheme" generally implies a con but some schemes to get rich work out such as ViaWeb which led to indirectly to this website. "Paul : E-commerce was not my life’s work. I didn’t actually want to spend my life working on this. I did it to get money and make that money."
- thisisit 8y agoI really doubt you can get rich by not being lucky. I was like Naval and thought many of my achievements were due to sheer hard work. And then I read this article about luck: http://nautil.us/blog/-the-key-to-good-luck-is-an-open-mind http://nautil.us/blog/-the-key-to-good-luck-is-an-open-mind And I got the book mentioned in the article - The Luck Factor by Richard Wiseman. One of the exercises in the book is to think over how things have unfolded in your life - what would have happened if you took left inside of right when you met your partner or got a great job? And when I thought it over, there has been some element of luck involved. At my first job I wasn't supposed to be there for an interview but went along with a roommate as I had nothing better to do. Now I believe sure you can work hard and do most of the work in Naval's list but all of it will ensure you are lucky when you run into one of the long term people in a long term industry. And everything will fall in place.
- erichate 8y agoWhat is luck really? Determination + Opportunity = Luck
- shams93 8y agoWe have all these ideals about hard work but in reality the economy is largely a casino. With crippling student debt most young people have been hamstrung from the gate. Milleneals don't generate wealth like boomers because most milleneals were effectively born into indentured servitude with the exploitation over education. Sure you could try to go without a degree in 2017 but good luck getting your foot in the door to anything today without education.
- Animats 8y agoWhat's the author's net worth? Ask a group of rich people if they made their money in real estate, and most of them will say yes.
- internetman55 8y agoI don't know why people can't be normal and just have a reasonable career plan with reasonable savings & investment plan for retirement. Seems like people who write on websites don't give a shit or want to work 80hours a week so they can retire at 38
- cryptozeus 8y agoYes what's wrong with that
- cryptozeus 8y agoI have already reached this but still not rich "When you're finally wealthy, you'll realize that it wasn't what you were seeking in the first place. But that's for another day."
- Mc_Big_G 8y agoFrom the article: The most accountable people have singular, public, and risky brands: Oprah, Trump, Kanye, Elon Trump is one of the "most accountable people"? This sentence threatens to invalidate the entire article.
- pitt1980 8y agoWhole article seems like a bunch of koans, that would be interesting to see fleshed out, or argued one way or the other. I'd be interested in reading why those four people strike someone as the most accountable people. But at my current level of worldly enlightenment, its not evident on its face to me.
- mcguire 8y ago...then get lucky. Reality: there are millions of people out there doing exactly the things listed. And they are not rich. BTW, does anyone really think Oprah, Trump, Kanye, and Elon are "accountable?" And then: "Don't partner with cynics and pessimists. Their beliefs are self-fulfilling." I see this a lot in these sorts of "pro tips", and it always makes me check to see if my pocket is being picked. Somebody needs to point out the holes in your grand scheme. But then, I'm a bitter, albeit moderately wealthy, cynic.
- hoechst 8y agowhy aspire to "have way more money than you need"? cause that's what this "how to get rich" bullshit is about. set your focus on what you love to do, not on acquiring more than you need. that probably won't make you happy anyway. if you chose to work in IT because you enjoy it, you're already super fucking lucky anyway. you're sought after and money's good (generally speaking). if you feel like you need more, do the actual work to make it happen. don't listen to generic one-liners by some pretentious investment guru.
- kpennell 8y agoYou have good points. But I think you'd also probably enjoy Naval's thoughts as well. There's a great moment in an interview with him where he says that he watched multiple friends get rich and not become happier.
- tim333 8y agoGetting rich is often a result of providing value to other people and so can be a positive for society. You can always give the spare to charity if you want.
- lcfcjs 8y agoSome interesting points, other points make absolutely no sense. "Reading is faster than listening." Really?
- known 8y agoBuy a lottery ticket every month; Within 80 months you'll hit the jackpot;
- oliwarner 8y agoIsn't this the tenth how-to-get-rich post today? I guess that's fairly standard, and I ignore them, but they're getting votes today. I'm a little surprised that —since every other thread on HN is about hacking your diet/wardrobe/matress to counteract the crushing depression you get from your job— nobody is putting one and one together. There is more to life than money. I don't want to sound too hippy but there is. There is value in relaxing with friends and taking time out to raise your family, and living with clean air outside a big, machine-like-city. The struggle to become rich is an immense burden with its own serious costs. You might make it, but I'd suggest you ignore "aspirational" money posts on HN and learn to be happy with what you have. Just strive to be good at what you do. It's not the American Dream™ but you'll get a hell of a lot more from life.
- iamwil 8y agoYou didn't read his last sentence.
- sfoley 8y agoFor the lazy: > When you're finally wealthy, you'll realize that it wasn't what you were seeking in the first place. But that's for another day.
- oliwarner 8y agoI had, it's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying that prioritising money makes you unhappy. It's a toxic culture where only a few make it. Author is saying those few still aren't happy. Subtle distinction but I think I'm going much further.
- sjosji 8y agoWhat is it with HN that so often people comment without having read the full article? And then complain about other HN threads while doing so.. Sigh ..
- melling 8y agoNo one said that money was the most important thing. You added that. Then you proceeded to tell everyone else how they should live their lives. Understanding how to effectively generate wealth, build companies, etc is something that has certain advantages. For instance, this will allow for more time to appreciate the other things in life. Warren Buffett spends most of his day reading, which he loves to do, for example. He’ll be donating 99% of his wealth. Your life is your choices but, quite honestly, you’re adding noise to the conversation that people were trying to have.
- sebleon 8y agoGetting rich is a quasi zero sum game. By definition, only 1-5% of the population can be in the “financial elite.” While this advice piece might be correct, it will be useless for >95% of its readers.
- shanecleveland 8y agoI've been listening the entire back catalog of NPR's "How I Built This" blog. The interviewer always asks if their success is due to hard work, skill, intelligence, etc. or luck. All of them acknowledge some luck is always involved. But the best quote I recall, but don't remember he interviewee, was "The harder I worked the more luck I found I had." Highly recommend the podcast. At first I cherry-picked the interviews I thought I would be interested in, but they are all good, regardless of the company or industry.
- vannevar 8y agoThis list of aphorisms is riddled with advice where luck probably plays a dominant role, so the headline is misleading. There are reliable ways of getting rich without needing (much) luck, but they take a long time if you're starting with very little capital. But they are proven, they do work, and they generally involve a lot of saving and investing throughout your primary earning years, in real estate or other stable assets. They generally don't involve serial entrepreneurship, which this article seems to advocate.
- jgalt212 8y agopassive income is not a good way to get rich. It's taxed a much higher rate than capital gains. probably should amended to create vehicle that gives off passive income, then sell the vehicle's future cashflows for better tax treatment.
- stcredzero 8y agoSpecific knowledge is knowledge that you cannot be trained for. If society can train you, it can train someone else, and replace you. If there is market value in a skill or knowledge, the market will find the people who can be trained in it, then train them. Perhaps a talent is required to be competitive. Corollary: Beware of fields which have artificial gatekeeping. They are in a disadvantageous market. Become the best in the world at what you do. Keep redefining what you do until this is true. Borrowed from Scott Adams: It's hard to become a top 5% in a given field. It's easy to get to the top 20%. So find two synergistic fields where you can get to top 20%. This makes you a top 5% cross-disciplinary expert. There are no get rich quick schemes. That's just someone else getting rich off you. Often, it's other people getting rich off of the efforts of a huge mob, while making a small sliver of that mob fantastically rich.
- ConfusedDog 8y agoWhich fields have artificial gatekeeping? Do you have any examples? I'm not familiar with the term and couldn't find it online...
- stcredzero 8y agoWhich fields have artificial gatekeeping? Massage Therapy is one. This varies state to state in the US, but you have to have a license.
- ConfusedDog 8y agoThanks!
- fnbr 8y agoInvestment banking is one, another is corporate law. It's incredibly difficult to get a job in either field without a degree from a top school, with top grades. Google hires lots of people with degrees from state schools (or without degrees!). That's not the case at, say, McKinsey. Neither job inherently requires a degree from a top school, but it's almost a prerequisite to get the job.
- simonebrunozzi 8y agoIf you have a decent chance of getting rich (read: well-paying job or income source), then the biggest impact on your "wealth" is going to come from two things: your ability to invest wisely, and your ability to optimize your taxes. (that's my two cents, of course - happy to be challenged on these two assumptions). Most investing relates to Real Estate. I've been involved and knee-deep into real estate investments for most of my life, as someone who had always wanted to "get rich" (not obsessively, but still with a strong focus). I am not rich now, but I can't really complain. Most real estate investments are made in a silly way. Most of the people I gave advice to showed me countless mistakes on the way up. They could be way richer if only they spent a few dozen hours more on understanding investing or specifically real estate investing. The most common mistake involves the usual "rent vs buy" dilemma. It's a hot debate every time it comes up. There are plenty of "online calculators" that are supposed to help you figure out what's the best decision. However, most people ignore important factors that go beyond the financials. I believe this is important, and in fact I wrote an extensive blog post trying to list a dozen important questions to ask yourself when you are considering whether you want to buy a house or not [0]. I don't mean to self-promote here, that blog post was the result of a few hours of work, prompted by the N-th discussion on the subject, and I believed there was a need to put something clear in writing. Now, when someone asks me for financial advice that relates to real estate, I point them to the blog post first, and then I'm happy to discuss more if they need to. [0]: https://medium.com/fabrica/the-rent-versus-buy-dilemma-12-important-questions-5f5a7d1815f https://medium.com/fabrica/the-rent-versus-buy-dilemma-12-im...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mrlala 8y agoWho cares about being "rich"? What you want is to be comfortable, and ENJOY YOUR FREAKING LIFE.
- danenania 8y agoIn poker, the fastest way to climb the ladder in stakes is to play a tight-aggressive style and be conservative with your bankroll (make sure you have plenty to cover the variance of the stakes you’re playing), but also occasionally take ‘shots’ at higher levels with a small portion of your bankroll. If you run good during your shot, you stay at the higher level. Otherwise, you move back down to rebuild. In short, you take frequent calculated risks when the downside of failure is low. I think a similar strategy can be very effective in life.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- test6554 8y agoOne of my most lucrative life decisions is to not play poker.
- perfmode 8y agopoker has made me a better thinker and risk taker. and i haven’t really played poker in the past 12 years.
- rubicon33 8y agoThis gets broken down and fails against skilled players who are adept at noticing conservative play styles just like this. It's quickly punished by small pots on what should be big wins. The trick isn't just conservative play, but deceptive and difficult to track play with an underlying trend of conservatism.
- danenania 8y agoI didn't say you should play conservatively, but that you should (generally) manage your bankroll conservatively. These are very different things.
- antisthenes 8y agoPlaying against skilled players is not how money in poker is made. If you're playing against 9 other skilled players, money will mostly move around the table, and the only winner will end up being the casino due to rake. The easiest way to increase profitability in poker is to play against people significantly worse than you are. Not unlike life, where the biggest factor of success is being born in the right country to the right parents.
- ggm 8y agoWhen it comes down to it, rich is a very odd concept. I sometimes wonder if the overarching desire to get "rich" should be in the DSM
- carapace 8y ago"The Art of Money Getting" by P.T. Barnum https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8581 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8581 (audio book) https://archive.org/details/art_of_money_getting_librivox https://archive.org/details/art_of_money_getting_librivox > In the United States, where we have more land than people, it is not at all difficult for persons in good health to make money. In this comparatively new field there are so many avenues of success open, so many vocations which are not crowded, that any person of either sex who is willing, at least for the time being, to engage in any respectable occupation that offers, may find lucrative employment. > Those who really desire to attain an independence, have only to set their minds upon it, and adopt the proper means, as they do in regard to any other object which they wish to accomplish, and the thing is easily done. But however easy it may be found to make money, I have no doubt many of my hearers will agree it is the most difficult thing in the world to keep it. The road to wealth is, as Dr. Franklin truly says, "as plain as the road to the mill." It consists simply in expending less than we earn; that seems to be a very simple problem. Mr. Micawber, one of those happy creations of the genial Dickens, puts the case in a strong light when he says that to have annual income of twenty pounds per annum, and spend twenty pounds and sixpence, is to be the most miserable of men; whereas, to have an income of only twenty pounds, and spend but nineteen pounds and sixpence is to be the happiest of mortals. Many of my readers may say, "we understand this: this is economy, and we know economy is wealth; we know we can't eat our cake and keep it also." Yet I beg to say that perhaps more cases of failure arise from mistakes on this point than almost any other. The fact is, many people think they understand economy when they really do not.
- pascalxus 8y agoI love how succinct this article is. It's densely packed with great content, without all the filler material most authors try to add in books. but, i don't really agree with this part: "When you're finally wealthy, you'll realize that it wasn't what you were seeking in the first place"
- superjisan 8y agoThis ignores most poor people who are too busy trying to feed their family in the short term and our society's inability to properly give them a safety net for them to learn new skills/ get ahead in life.
- rich-and-poor 8y agoSociety is a privelege and not a right, without "our society" and it's shortcomings you're back to hunting for food and succeeding, or perishing
- liftdd 8y agoCannot agree more.
- jksmith 8y agoI blew so much money on this young girl in 15,16,17 it put me in a hole and we aren't together anymore. Was making close to 300k/yr in an area where that's a shitload of money. I could have paid off a bunch of debt, IRS, put a chunk in retirement, lots of stuff. Would I do it again? Oh hell yes because it was an incredible experience. Money ain't shit unless it facilitates an experience you'd never, ever get otherwise. There's different motivators for making money. I've definitely found mine. Writing a new revenue generator right now and I've written so much code I definitely wouldn't have the energy to do this much work unless I had experienced what I did.
- mmaunder 8y ago"When you're finally wealthy, you'll realize that it wasn't what you were seeking in the first place. But that's for another day." Freedom is what you were seeking all along.
- pascalxus 8y agomy last response didn't post, so here's the link of an ordinary person doing it: It's the invest a little and wait a long time approach: 96-Year-Old Secretary Quietly Amasses Fortune, Then Donates $8.2 Million https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/06/nyregion/secretary-fortune-donates.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/06/nyregion/secretary-fortun...
- magice 8y agoMan, I disagree with about everything from this opinion. And I hate that I have this urge to write out the point-to-point rebuking: + "Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep." : Really? Are we playing the "let's redefine everything so that it works out like I say" game now? + "You’re not going to get rich renting out your time." : the top 1% of Americans are dominated with doctors and lawyers who, guess what, rent out their time. + "You will get rich by giving society what it wants but does not yet know how to get." : The concept of "first-mover disadvantage" should really solve this. Look, Palm produced a smartphone, and Apple also produces smartphone; Apple make trillions, Palm died. The society clearly want smartphone. Why did Apple succeed but Palm failed? + "Specific knowledge is knowledge that you cannot be trained for. If society can train you, it can train someone else, and replace you." : please see above for doctors and lawyers, whom are all trained by the society. Plus, if other humans (i.e. the society) can't train you, who does? God sends angels to you? + "Specific knowledge is found by pursuing your genuine curiosity and passion rather than whatever is hot right now." : And if you are interested in, says, building rafts (or horse-drawn carriage, or any of these things), you will get rich so fast that your stomach will starve. + "Building specific knowledge will feel like play to you but will look like work to others." : sigh. Right. + "The most accountable people have singular, public, and risky brands: Oprah, Trump, Kanye, Elon." : Ummm. One, Trump brand and accountability have adverse relationship. Two, some of the most rewarded people on earth don't do business in their names. Bill Gates used Microsoft, in case you forget. Corporations exist for a reason. + "Become the best in the world at what you do. Keep redefining what you do until this is true." : Yes, and the best vendors always win! And Windows is the greatest OS on earth! And Facebook is the best social network! You get my sarcasm. So, conclusion? My father taught me this, which I believe to be true: small wealth is by hardwork, great wealth is by Heaven. If you want to be affluent, be industrious at work, be acceptable to society, be prudent in finance; and you will eventually get there. If you want to get richie rich rich, well, pray (plus all of the things for little wealth). This kind of "I get lucky now I will give stupid advices" things really should go away.
- contingencies 8y agoIMHO there is a lot of terrible advice here. "Go slow and you'll make it" puts a cap on success and is not very stimulating. If your idea of life is sitting in a room under a roof you nominally own watching TV with an up-with-the-Jones' car, you've already lost. In youth while time rich invest in yourself to develop skills and experience, focusing if possible on areas others miss and cannot learn effectively through formal educational programs (eg. R&D, deep science, extensive practical knowledge in a trade, languages, travel and worldliness, etc.). Never allow rigid formal education to destroy your innate curiosity - cherish it: it is the most powerful force for learning and achievement that you have. Be a talented generalist, not a specialist. High value and high growth opportunities do not emerge consistently from one area but rather general industries. A capacity to absorb and manage cross-disciplinary knowledge rapidly and effectively is worth ten times more than extreme specialization, 99 times out of 100. Don't over-skill in areas that age fast (eg. programming frameworks, design fads, many formal qualifications, etc.). In young adulthood invest in a partner, they will be your strongest asset in times of need and provide strength, a sounding board and risk-hedging as an alternate actor for all future ventures. If you can, find one from another culture and continent with a different passport, perspective and language... this will give you and any children half a world more options in the future. Take risky career path moves. Following a crowd might help you to survive, but never to thrive. Just make sure you accrue some capital so that you have options. Finally, invest in high leverage opportunities in potentially high growth businesses in which you hold substantial equity. If you can't find one, start one. By the time you've done a couple (ideally in a couple of sectors or markets) you'll be worth funding by deeper pockets (read: superpower obtained - partially outsource venture risk) and quite capable at executing. Your first successful exit will place you ahead of your peers, who you will feel empathy and pity for realising they have wasted decades conservatively limiting their own life experience.
- vikkijaat 8y agohttps://youtu.be/MHP3jzcYlVU https://youtu.be/MHP3jzcYlVU
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- RandomCSGeek 8y agoI think a better strategy than trying to be rich is, 1. First decide what is the median lifestyle that you want to live. Then decide how much it costs. 2. Next decide what are the tasks which make you most satisfied. Consider doing those tasks that would earn you at least what is required as per above criteria. As a rule of thumb, the most satisfying tasks(ex: world tour with your spouse) will earn the least. 3. Invest, so that you could switch to doing more satisfying tasks, as your threshold of money to be earned via job will go on decreasing. There's no point in working hard, doing a job you don't like, to earn millions/billions, when you won't be spending most of it. After all, you might get hit by a car today, and you'll never know how those millions of yours got spent by your kids.