16 ms·
How Strenuous Exercise Affects Our Immune System
- Bartweiss 8y agoThe standout quote for me: "[immune cells] moved elsewhere, migrating to the animals’ guts or lungs, portions of the body that might be expected to need extra immune help after hard exercise". Rapidly producing immune cells during exercise, then letting them (and more) die off would be a baffling response. But pumping them into the lungs (because you've been breathing hard through your mouth) and gut (for when you make up lost energy, and maybe eat some raw meat you've been hunting)? That makes a great deal of sense. That effect is unconfirmed in humans, but it would ground our observations in an evolutionarily-sane outcome.
- Retric 8y agoExercise pushes stuff around in your gut which is probably more directly related to the immune response than the possibility of eating raw meat.
- boris 8y agoWhy would you go run (hunt) if there is still stuff (food) in your gut.
- DamnYuppie 8y agoBest to hunt when you are loaded up on fuel. Don't want to be hunting when energy is low as you will most likely be less successful as your focus, patience, and response times will all be lower. Hunting isn't like going to the store, success isn't guaranteed.
- bluGill 8y agoThat is why you hunt when you are "out of fuel": you can try to hunt just after you eat, but when you fail you get to try again while "out of fuel". (Out of fuel in quotes - presumably the body has enough energy stores for a few more hunts even when it didn't find anything to eat the day before.)
- DamnYuppie 8y agoMy comment was definitely taken out of context, I didn't mean to eat and run out the door. The intent was you need to be well fueled and not depleted.
- donovanh 8y agoI think the opposite. People that fast for a period (> 16 hours) report improved energy levels. This may be because after a while the body enters a ketogenic state where it burns body fat, which is a great source of energy and perfect for when on the hunt.
- Retric 8y agoDepending on food type it can easily take over 2 days to digest food. https://www.mayoclinic.org/digestive-system/expert-answers/faq-20058340 https://www.mayoclinic.org/digestive-system/expert-answers/f...
- naasking 8y ago> I think the opposite. People that fast for a period (> 16 hours) report improved energy levels. This may be because after a while the body enters a ketogenic state where it burns body fat, which is a great source of energy and perfect for when on the hunt. Ketogenesis requires over a week of carb restriction IIRC. I think fasting yields energy because the body increases various stress hormones to push you to find food so you don't starve.
- dorfsmay 8y agoNo, it has to do with insulin levels. Google "Jason Fung insulin".
- dorfsmay 8y agoHave you ever tried fasting? One of the biggest issue while fasting is too much energy and difficulty to fall asleep. Have you ever tried to focus on a hard problem at work after a big lunch?
- Retric 8y agoIt generally takes 40+ hours from the time you eat to the time you poo. So, humans always have stuff in their gut. https://www.mayoclinic.org/digestive-system/expert-answers/faq-20058340 https://www.mayoclinic.org/digestive-system/expert-answers/f...
- naasking 8y agoAre fed hunters statistically more likely to successfully hunt than unfed hunters? It seems plausible, so hunters that took advantage of their fed state would have had an adaptive advantage.
- DrScump 8y agoAs far as we know, humans' originally competitive advantage in hunting was long-distance running. Game could out-sprint humans but not out-distance human hunters. So, after successfully running down game, they must have had enough in the tank to complete the kill. This practice is still evident in some African tribes.
- naasking 8y agoI've heard of persistence hunting, but I've never seen it suggested that was our primary competitive hunting advantage. Do you have a citation of some sort?
- she11c0de 8y agoAlso: "Statistically, their [marathon runners] odds of becoming sick were about the same as for anyone else in the race’s host city."
- Bartweiss 8y agoYep - wasn't mentioned in the article, but I'd imagine the reason post-race marathoners are more likely to mistake coughs for colds is that marathons are also demanding. If your muscles ache and you're lethargic and coughing, that looks a lot like a cold.
- mkirklions 8y agoThis article doesnt make mention of my workout where I lift something heavy 1 time. I had the idea that I wanted to reduce time in the gym, so I used the potential energy equation PE= Mgh I'm not getting any taller, so the only thing I could change was either the reps or mass of weight moved. I made it my goal to lift heavy weights so I'd only need to deadlift 1 time and be able to pig out. TBH, it works, I lose 1 lb a week eating 3,000 calories a day. We lift 2 times a week. Warm up, then do 2+ reps of a heavy set. I dont really sweat after a workout, but I look pretty big and I'm still deadlifting 450lbs. But I only deadlift that weight 1 time a week. Is that 'Strenuous'?
- send_computers 8y agoHmmm can't tell if serious or crazy
- gthtjtkt 8y agoCrazy, guaranteed. People always overstate their level of fitness by several orders of magnitude on anonymous internet forums.
- danmg 8y agoA 450lb deadlift is not crazy.
- bluGill 8y agoOne order of magnitude is a mere 45 lbs deadlift. Thus the poster must be horrifically weak. He must have wrote that from the nursing home, I'm sure the nurses love it that he spends his days quietly posting nonsense on the internet instead of bothering them.
- mkirklions 8y agoYeah 450lb deadlift isnt even respectable among lifters. 450 is almost the expectation for anyone casually lifting for a few years.
- jerf 8y agoI gotta stash this one away. I often refer to the disaster of 20th century health science as scientists repeatedly gathering a single point of data and then drawing a line (or hyperplane) though it, but this is a great article clearly demonstrating an example of that, and how plausible it all seemed at the time. (Not that it's a trend limited to the 20th century. But it seems to me to have been extremely bad in the health area in that time frame. Not uniquely so necessarily, but quite bad.)
- knice 8y agoI imagine the 20th century was the worst time for it because we had more sophisticated data collection and analysis methods, but failed to recognize our own inadequacies when using those tools to draw conclusions. Kind of like social media algorithms today.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ekr 8y agoMy personal experience with long (100miles+) cross-country mtb riding (with lots of climbing) is that in fact, catching a cold after such a strenuous ride is way more common than the base rate. This is also the experience reported by most professional cyclists (check TdF reports). My under-researched model of how this happens, is that there is a lot of tear-and-wear in the muscles where the effort is happening, which leads to inflammation, and that's where the white-blood cells might end up.
- chiefalchemist 8y agoWhile my (running) experience is similar, I alao believe it's possible to over-train. That is, it wasn't a single event that did the wearing down. The single big event is what finalized the lowering of the immunity threshold. So that looks like the fault of the ends (read: the event) was actually led by the means (training).
- mistrial9 8y agorunners and other endurance athletes I have met over the years, show noted skin aging after 40 years old..
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- stevenwoo 8y agoThat may be more due to inadequate preventative sunscreen/protective clothing per outdoor time, every one who spends time outdoors without it shows signs of skin aging like the a/b test in one, truck drivers, with the side closest to window showing significantly more wear and tear versus the interior facing side. In addition to sunscreen, there are nowadays a lot of arm/leg covering just for SPF protection even in hotter temperatures - I always wear the arm protection/eyewear when outside.
- vba 8y agoEyewear? Like sun glasses. Do the eyes age from natural light?
- will_c03 8y agoSo this is very interesting to me as a swimmer. I find that at the peak of my curve (where I train harder for the regional meet) I often get sick more often, and for far longer. In swimming, this is catastrophic to your performance for the meet, so we try at all costs to prevent illness, but it always happens to one or two of us. The question I pose, does this just apply to shot term exercise, or does intense training (5 hrs a day) for about a month have the same effect.
- amorphous 8y agoI have one rule: I only ever do sports if I have rested well the night before. It took me until I reached my 40s to realise that lack of sleep + heavy exercise = high chance of catching a cold. Other sure ways how I can get sick: overdo sauna after exercising and, by far the worst, overdoing cold showers (Jim Hoff anyone? - I got seriously sick experimenting with that) I guess the overall strength of my immune system is below average :-(
- crististm 8y agoThere is a high correlation between insufficient sleep and catching cold. It kind of made sense but I've looked it up and found several studies supporting this. This winter I've tried only cold showers after running outside. Cold showers as in (sometimes) my neck hurt if I did it too long. Did not catch a cold until this spring and I think this is more correlated to insufficient rest/sleep (on top of exercising) than to water temperature. My takeaway is enough rest is not optional and cold showers are doable even in very cold water. I have no idea how hard would be a bath in water + ice.
- WillPostForFood 8y agoWhat’s the theory behind the cold shower?
- kristerv 8y agofor me it wakes me the f up. It's strong like having drunk coffee or something. Results may vary of course, but works wonders for me and my focus during the day. I know of an old woman who's beed ice-cold bucketing for years and looks great and hasn't been sick in a long time. Does this with -20C outside too. Yet I find I may get sick easier if it's too cold outside and I go all out freezing shower.
- PuffinBlue 8y agoI believe there is research into anti-depressive effects of cold water exercise too. It seems to be helpful when treating stubborn depression that doesn't respond to other treatments. The topic was covered in a BBC programme: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p047z13f https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p047z13f
- sternocleidom 8y agoThis article could not be more wrong, and anyone who has been a truly serious athlete will agree with me. There are perhaps a dozen times in my life when I was training with abnormally high intensity even for a very competitive endurance athlete and fell ill immediately afterward. These range from 2 hr brutal races to 3-4 days of 5-7 hrs daily intense training or race efforts. I very rarely catch a cold, but it's more often than not after an effort that stands out to me as memorably difficult. Any serious cyclist will agree with me. Even competitive high school athletes know that you are most likely to get sick right before taper. This is an example of misinterpretation of scientific experiment, most likely by the journalists but possibly by the scientists themselves. EDIT: I don't take issue with "immune response is heightened after exercise". I'm sure it is. I take issue with this quote: "But it is unlikely to have made you vulnerable to colds or other illnesses afterward, according to a myth-busting new review of the latest science about immunity and endurance exercise".
- jxcl 8y agoThis is all anecdotal evidence that's pretty well countered by this statement: > Their first conclusion was that athletes are lousy at identifying whether and why they are sniffling. The original 1980s studies had relied on runners’ self-reports of illness. But newer experiments that actually tested saliva showed that less than a third of marathon runners who thought they had caught a cold actually had. Statistically, their odds of becoming sick were about the same as for anyone else in the race’s host city.
- sternocleidom 8y agoThe anecdotes of hundreds of national and world class athletes I have trained, raced, and interacted with over the years is worth more than any study you can paste here, my friend. I suppose you are unlikely to see anyone here back me up since HackerNews isn't exactly an athletic demographic. Fever, red eyes, overflowing mucus, extreme soreness and raw throat for days or over a week - are you trying to tell me that this isn't sick? Maybe that's your normal state, but I've seen hundreds of cases of amateur and professional athletes reduced to this shortly after performing national caliber efforts.
- wallace_f 8y ago>athletes are lousy at identifying whether and why they are sniffling. Not an expert, but wonder if this is caused by a hangover from the endorphin dump from the marathon. I felt that way afterwards.
- nimbius 8y agoAs a machinist and building maintenance engineer, I can almost guarantee any ill feeling you're experiencing after a trip to your local gym is due to the air quality. Gyms are rarely purpose built facilities. Rather, theyre rented and renovated spaces. In turn, airflow in the structure is planned for light industrial or office space. Almost no thought goes into the fact that gyms are sometimes hundreds of occupants moving the air at two to three times what the OSHA or planning documents indicate. Paints with VoC's, sealants, and even offgassing plastics from gym mats or new equipment can turn the air quality from decent to garbage in a few hours. I was once contracted to fix an air handler issue at a fitness center. The root cause was a set of 6 un-ventilated panini presses that were placed near the front desk as part of an effort to sell snacks and sandwiches. The added smoke and particulate had decreased the filter life and burned out a blower motor. The solution was either get rid of the electric grills, or start replacing 30 day filters every week.
- awakeasleep 8y agoYou’re not even mentioning CO2 concentration. I work in a large, open office with seemingly sufficient airflow, but after buying a CO2 detector on a whim I’ve seen that it frequently reaches 1200ppm, and you actually can tell that you feel like crap when that happens. I can’t imagine if the whole office was filled with people exercising.
- wjnc 8y agoOur office has those installed as a regular feature in all meeting rooms. Main takeaway lesson: never fit more people in a room than was designed for. Air quality is a balance of inflow (equals outflow) and usage. Fit 9 in a room for 6? PPM way above 1000.
- mrfusion 8y agoWhat does it feel like as it starts getting higher?
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
- atomical 8y agoI guess this research is wrong then? https://nutritionfacts.org/video/preserving-immune-function-in-athletes-with-nutritional-yeast/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/preserving-immune-function-...
- marban 8y agoI've been running for twenty years and am currently on a half-year streak with around 15km / day. In all those years I've been sick for about two weeks all in all. Before working out, that was like the average over half a year. Conclusion: Figure out what works for you, have a daily routine, add a bit of obsession and stop reading stories about the pros and cons of exercising.
- matthewwiese 8y agoSame with me during my peak running period last year; even when I was feeling ill or off, a run, albeit grueling at the time, always seemed to aid in my recovery (if only for the placebo of getting myself out of bed). I really need to start doing it on the regular again...
- marban 8y agoTrue that. All those pace yourself arguments are usually coming from those who're just trying to justify their own laziness. Fact is, if you want to increase or even keep your performance those two days/w a 30min followed by a protein shake won't change anything other than making you fat because you think you just burned two pizzas.
- orbitur 8y agoPrior to my knee injury I was a happy runner, and I definitely found that just going for longer than 15 minutes would completely clear out my nose if I was at the congestion stage of a cold. Of course, my nose would be congested again a few hours later, but it was still a decent motivator since I hate taking medicine. Wish my knee would stop being shitty.
- evo_9 8y agoStarted doing Tabata sprints a couple years ago. Amazing how much more effective they are versus running at a slower pace for 40 minutes (my old routine). Also, never knew this, they make self-powered treadmills which are really ideal for sprinting on. I just bought a ASUNA Hi-Performance Cardio Trainer Self Powered Manual Treadmill, it's pretty much ideal for Tabata/sprinting for a home-gym.
- paulcole 8y agoEffective at what?
- smnplk 8y agoAt lowering bad cholesterol and more after burn effect.
- evo_9 8y agoEffective at maintaining aerobic conditioning. I wanted to get away from having to run 40 minutes 3 times a week. Doing sprints for 2-4 minutes 3 times a week is essentially the same. Also has the added benefit over my old 40 minute jog routine of increasing my quickness. I play hockey so it was noticeable how much quicker my first 3 strides have become the past 2 years. Pretty good read regarding all this: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-17177251 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-17177251
- paulcole 8y agoYeah it's not surprising that slow speed jogging wouldn't improve quickness. Fast twitch vs. slow twitch and all.
- jmcphers 8y agoAnecdotally my own experience matches that of the rodents in the experiment. I've found that when I'm getting regular strenuous exercise (I bike up a steep hill as part of my commute) I almost never get sick, and can go > 1 year without so much as a sore throat. Conversely, when I'm more sedentary for months at a go, I'm more likely to become ill.
- agumonkey 8y agoI have asthma and many allergies, whenever I have a cold, 80% chances it's gonna end up as a long and tiresome bronchitis. In HS, I decided to give no fuck, went to my 2h winter soccer practice (+ 1h total mudtrail bike to go there). That cold didnt last long and didnt end up causing bronchitis. That was surely half luck, but I always have a feeling that, to an extent, keeping your system active helps. More blood flow ? maybe trigger a more rapid and global immune response .. dunno
- jhayward 8y agoAnecdotally: when I was a bike racer I noted that if I was so exhausted after a hard training ride (usually 5+ hours, >100 miles) that I was involuntarily falling asleep afterward that I would inevitably come down with a sore throat leading to a cold within 12-24 hours. 100% of the time. I've had maybe 2-3 colds in the decades since I quit racing.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- smnplk 8y agoAnyone else noticed that endurance athletes look 10 years older ?
- itaysk 8y agoKudus to NYT for stating the TL;DR right at the top, instead of exhausting the reader with meaningless paragraphs. > The review concludes that, contrary to widespread belief, a long, tiring workout or race can amplify immune responses, not suppress them. Would be even better if that was reflected in the title, but alas, my expectations from a modern website are not so high.
- csours 8y agoI have asthma, and I think strenuous exercise is good for my lung capacity long term, but makes me feel terrible the next day or 2 days after. It's really difficult to figure out what causes my symptoms and what makes me feel better. I wish there was a chip that monitored hormones and immune system factors, etc.
- jaequery 8y agoi think its not the exercise but the rest that follows after a strenuous activity that makes you prone to get sick. its been my theory that if you rest like you are on your last breath, your immune system stops being active. but if you stay active and keep moving your body like you have to survive, your immune system is boosted. ive tested this theory time and time and seems to be on point. there have been a number of times when i was feeling sick and instead of resting, id go out in the cold freezing and walk outside for hours. next day i would be completely healed. but when im just home bed ridden that sickness can linger for days or even weeks. im also a huge fan of taking cold shower the moment you feel like you are carching a cold. it works way too often to be a coincidence.