43 ms·

Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

• robbiemitchell 9y ago
  NYT walked through a process of elimination and concluded it will be Denver. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/09/upshot/where-should-amazon-new-headquarters-be.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/09/upshot/where-...
  • Grasshoppeh 9y ago
    Interesting, I would have still guessed Massachusetts due to the education system. If there goal is to make high paying jobs an educated population makes it much easier to find talent.
    • ghaff 9y ago
      Amazon is already building a pretty big facility (about 5K employees as I recall). The upside is certainly the universities and the fact that Massachusetts is already a significant tech hub, albeit in a somewhat different vein from Silicon Valley. The downside is land and CoL in the city is very expensive and traffic/transit congestion is already pretty bad.
  • fetus8 9y ago
    As a Colorado resident, I'd love for them to pick anywhere BUT Denver. We already have major issues with homelessness, and rapidly rising cost of living. Our highways and infrastructure are beyond congested already, and our public transit is pretty half assed. If Amazon is going to build HQ2 here, they better help contribute to improving public transit, creating affordable housing, and help improve the highways to handle the influx of more new people, which I doubt they'll do. So please, pick somewhere else.
    • Erik816 9y ago
      Considering that's a very accurate description of Seattle, I'd say your doubts are well founded.
      • fetus8 9y ago
        Thank you, and I'm sorry, if you're a Seattle resident.
    • JPKab 9y ago
      If only there was a system in place where the money paid to the 50K employees could be taxed by the state and city..... We could call it an income tax. Perhaps these people could even spend their money in their new home with local businesses too? Then this income tax could further apply to the people that paid. Just imagine the possibilities. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I'm routinely shocked by the lack of basic economic knowledge on HN.
    • dillondoyle 9y ago
      I live in Denver and don't drive. I would love more infill and higher density! Perhaps if the campus took over the Elitch Garden's space I would hope that a lot of the new workers would stay downtown and hopefully many would be without car.
  • nosequel 9y ago
    I was happy to see that Denver pitched Amazon with talent and not tax incentives [1]. I think most in Colorado would be perfectly happy if Denver didn't win and would be very unhappy if Denver won by giving tax breaks. - [1] https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/18/amazon-headquarters-colorado-pitch/ https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/18/amazon-headquarters-co...
    • illegalsmile 9y ago
      I live in CO but not front range and the front range population impacts the entire state from natural resources to transportation and recreation. When it comes down to it I would be OK if Denver didn't win though at the same time feel as if that's squandering growth and cool things for my own personal gains. Ultimately if Amazon adds 25-50K population to the front range that's a drop in the bucket of the already ~4.4M citizens living there. When you deliberately choose not to live in a city and that city has impacts both near and far that affect you it's tough to want them to grow much especially considering their already large problems.
      • gizmo385 9y ago
        > Ultimately if Amazon adds 25-50K population to the front range I think that if Amazon moved out here, the ultimate increase in population would be a lot more than the 50k potential hires that Amazon is advertising on the tin. That also creates a ton of jobs in the surrounding areas for the various amenities that people working at Amazon can afford, and you need people to work those jobs.
    • blackaspen 9y ago
      I live inbetween Boulder and Denver -- that's my sentiment. I really don't want Amazon to move in, and I'd be even more unhappy with it if we do ultimately give some terrible incentives (terrible for CO residents).
    • Nelson69 9y ago
      Which is exactly why I think that we're a front-runner. Just like the winter Olympics all over again... The south Denver/Tech Center area was imagined with something like this in mind, maybe a big chunk of land out east along the southern part of e-470.. It's really all the other stuff that kind of stinks, all the extra traffic, all the extra people on the ski slopes, etc..
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
• rpiguy 9y ago
  It seems interesting that Amazon is not terribly concerned with the cost of labor. Several cities and states on that list have very high labor costs (Boston, New Jersey, etc.) Good to see they are more concerned with talent and infrastructure rather than just bottom line costs.
  • dominotw 9y ago
    Maybe there are just there as a bluff to create arms race among the rest.
  • s73ver_ 9y ago
    It's already known what Amazon pays. I don't care where I'm located, they had better be paying me at least that well.
    • rpiguy 9y ago
      That’s not how labor markets work. Amazon engineers in Boston and Seattle will certainly be paid more on average than engineers from Pittsburgh or Atlanta.
      • s73ver_ 9y ago
        Why not? I mean, if they can't get people to work for less wages, they have to offer higher ones.
        • rpiguy 9y ago
          There is less competition for talent in smaller markets like Pittsburg, so they get paid less. Also an engineer in Pittsburg, for example, would usually be okay getting paid less, because housing is cheaper by a factor of 5 than Silicon Valley and his or her overall cost of living will be much lower. It is supply and demand. People in highly competitive labor markets like Silicon Valley or Seattle will get a geographic differential. People in less competitive markets will get paid, but also enjoy a lower cost of living. If you live in one of those less competitive areas and asked to be paid like someone in Silicon Valley, you better be rock star, nine times out of ten it will not happen.
• techwizrd 9y ago
  I'm hoping it'll be northern Virginia or Washington, D.C. We already have Amazon stuff here and plenty of tech companies in Tysons Corner, Reston, Herndon, etc. and plenty of universities in close proximity so it wouldn't be a huge stretch.
  • JPKab 9y ago
    Used to live there. Inflated salaries courtesy of Federal govt and contractors, and talent pool looks bigger on paper than reality. Govt contracting incentivizes overstaffed projects with slow pace and awful tech. Who wants to work at Amazon for 90k when you can have an easy govt contracting job for 150k that is strictly 9 to 5? Plus, northern VA has awful traffic and high cost of living. Traffic jam on Saturday morning is a thing in the burbs there.
• m3kw9 9y ago
  if it is a tech HQ they want to at least move to the east coast so they don’t compete in talent.
• EADGBE 9y ago
  I'm so glad Kansas City wasted all that time pandering [1] to them. I bet Sly really thought he'd make a dent. Absolutely not surprised though. Oh well, same old same old. Look at all the dots on the edges. [1] http://www.kansascity.com/news/business/article180878701.html http://www.kansascity.com/news/business/article180878701.htm...
  • jessaustin 9y ago
    Oooh... the cringe is strong. (EDIT: this refers to Mayor Sly's actions in your link, not to your comment!) Realistically, KC doesn't have an international airport. It's a fine national airport, because it's easy to get close to your gate really quickly, and there's a pretty complete set of connections to the West and many parts of the East. To fly internationally, however, requires a layover at O'Hare. One doesn't see KC competing for something like this without being a bit more connected to the world.
    • EADGBE 9y ago
      Hey, but we've got some deal in the works for nonstops to Iceland! (tongue-in-cheek). [1] I really didn't intend to get high and mighty on my Midwest horse. Also, I don't know how well you know the airport situation, but they're really, really trying to work on it. [2] Honestly I'm not sure where they're at in the process though, there's been some hiccups. [1] https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2018/01/09/kansas-city-international-airport-iceland-flight.html https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2018/01/09/kansa... [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/11/08/they-voted-yes-kansas-city-get-new-1-billion-airport-terminal/844622001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/...
      • optimuspaul 9y ago
        I'm disappointed how few midwest cities there were. Minneapolis and St Louis would be excellent cities that have great tech scenes and plenty of room for growth. I do think that Austin and Nashville are great choices as well, but most of the rest seem silly to me.
      • 9y ago
• southphillyman 9y ago
  > Amazon will work with each of the candidate locations to dive deeper into their proposals Breaking the process into stages like this will create a bidding war where Amazon can then go to each city government and extract more benefits. I'm usually against tax payers funding things like this (ie:stadiums) but I still selfishly want the location to be somewhere in the NYC/Philly/DC corridor.
• dustinmoorenet 9y ago
  Please don't come to Austin. There are enough of us new people here.
  • chrisco255 9y ago
    Would love to have Amazon here but Austin badly needs infrastructure.
    • tbirrell 9y ago
      I would hate to have amazon here. I don't need my rent to go up or my commute to get longer.
  • kodablah 9y ago
    Same for the northern Dallas suburb area, we don't need more people and company HQs. Now Fort Worth? That's another story...
    • Cshelton 9y ago
      It would go downtown Dallas if it came to Dallas. Either the Victory Park proposal or the area just south of city hall/Cedars. Plenty of land, plenty of infrastructure to support it, and plenty of tech talent there already/accessible by light rail to major suburbs. I think it'll be Dallas or Atlanta though.
• linkmotif 9y ago
  Take a look at what’s happened to Seattle and you’re liable to say “no, thank you.” The gentrification, the homelessness. The overall wealth inequality. I mean, sure, Amazon invested billions in Seattle, but those billions went to people who lead end of days capitalist lifestyles oriented around giving that money right back megacorporations like... Amazon. Suggesting the Amazon’s investment will be meaningfully local is kind of comical. It’s a multinational, and the people who get that money will give it right back to multinationals. That’s how those people spend their income. Amazon isn’t trying to promote ways of life that don’t revolve around cheap foreign goods, soul crushing work, and an isolated, lonely existence. The lucky place that lands HQ2 will have more of all these things, and a lot less humanity. It’s good for business.
  • keyboardhitter 9y ago
    Some days I feel disgusted by even participating in the job market for those reasons. I feel there's a very superficial aspect to some lifestyles in Seattle (including my own) that I didn't expect to become so... unavoidable My stomach feels sick reading the HQ2 updates. It seems so good on paper, and surely it would create jobs and promote infrastructure growth, but... there is something very dystopian about it that makes me want to run away.
• gshakir 9y ago
  Three candidate cities are in the same metro area (DC). * Montgomery county, MD * Northern Virginia * Washington DC
  • rando444 9y ago
    Same metro area.. totally different politics, rules, and regulations.
    • blueatlas 9y ago
      And there you have it. Northern Virginia will win this hands down if it's up against neighboring Montgomery County (which is where I live). Northern VA wins in infrastructure, existing tech culture, housing, and transportation options. But, the primary reason is that Montgomery County politics will never bend to accommodate Amazon in a competitive situation like this, and it's been that way for 30 years.
      • gshakir 9y ago
        I live in Rockville, MD and I couldn't agree more with the county politics.
  • rdtsc 9y ago
    I don't see DC happening though. Not enough land to build. Traffic is a mess. But wouldn't be surprised if they pick NoVA. Not sure much about MD, I think VA traditionally had a more favorable tax structure.
  • bhouston 9y ago
    I believe that one of these is the most likely winner.
  • rmrfrmrf 9y ago
    If they’re strategically trying to eat IBM’s and Oracle’s lunch, then a DC presence would be a good choice.
  • 9y ago
• onychomys 9y ago
  I'm surprised to see Miami make the list, since they're going to have so much work to do over the next 50 years to deal with rising sea levels. I'm not at all sure that the city will still exist in its modern form in 2050, and surely Amazon is planning that far out too.
  • rainbowmverse 9y ago
    Maybe they see an opportunity to be the first major tech company with a headquarters powered by tidal generation.
  • rb808 9y ago
    Miami I think is going to have a big future. At current growth rates it will be #6 biggest city by population, still cheap, nice quality of life. Also as far away as you can get from Seattle in every way, so probably not a great pick for HQ2, but we'll hear more from this city I think.
  • rileyphone 9y ago
    Unfortunately, Miami's tech scene is really small, especially for it's size. Ft. Lauderdale has a bigger one, but still not very impressive. Amazon would be hard pressed to find enough qualified engineers here that I think it's not viable. I could see a smaller office opening for Latin America though, as we have communities from essentially every country in the region.
  • 0xJRS 9y ago
    I'm surprised to see it as well, and assume it will be one of the first to get crossed off. I worked near Ft Lauderdale/Miami for awhile and its just too small of an area and very expensive already.
• draw_down 9y ago
  Boy, they are really milking this damn thing. Woof.
• chollida1 9y ago
  Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest that we're only here because having a Canadian Candidate has the potential to have all 3 levels of government involved rather than just state and city. I'm not really sure how to go about handicapping the finalists. Given the current political climate, Toronto is interesting because it's the only city that gives Amazon some escape form the US government. You'd want: - an international airport so you can get to Beijing, London, etc on a single flight. This might eliminate the smaller cities. - a strong existing tech workforce and universities. - land in the downtown core to build on, this might eliminate New York? - perhaps you'd preference the cities that already have an amazon campus in them. Toronto has all of these.. Ah, who am I kidding. its going to come down to which government gives them the most money and that eliminates Toronto. Would be fun for someone in each city to make a list of what makes your city a good choice for the headquarters!!
  • walterbell 9y ago
    Hasn't Google already planted their flag in NYC and Toronto for their "smart city" kiosk surveillance & advertising network? https://www.wired.com/story/google-sidewalk-labs-toronto-quayside/ https://www.wired.com/story/google-sidewalk-labs-toronto-qua... https://gizmodo.com/nycs-free-wifi-service-is-turning-into-a-privacy-nightm-1765474061 https://gizmodo.com/nycs-free-wifi-service-is-turning-into-a...
    • tootie 9y ago
      They already have a few thousand people working in NYC offices
    • notatoad 9y ago
      NYC, yes. But counting Sidewalk Labs' project as Google "planting their flag" in Toronto seems like a stretch.
  • bryanlarsen 9y ago
    If Canadian cities were in serious competition I think there'd be more than one of them on the list. There are a good number of American cities smaller than Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg and Ottawa/Gatineau on the list, let alone Montreal and Vancouver. I suspect that Toronto is the token Canadian city and won't get serious consideration. I don't blame them, in this era of Trump hyper-nationalism there'd be a huge blow-back for choosing a Canadian city.
• rb808 9y ago
  Its basically most of the major metro areas in North America >500 miles away from Seattle. Doesn't seem to be cutting it down much.
  • jasode 9y ago
    My guess is that Amazon isn't _seriously_ considering all 20 cities equally. Instead, they privately already have 2 or 3 particular cities in mind and the other 18 cities are just there for negotiating leverage for the 2 they really want. The problem is that the cities themselves don't know if they're "really in contention" or just "disposable chess pieces". Again, that's just my guess.
    • phkahler 9y ago
      Yeah, there's funny concentration of options right by - and including - Washington D.C.
      • joekrill 9y ago
        That's just because the DC area is so spread out. You don't really have to be in DC "proper" to get the benefits of the area. Which I think is different than a lot of other major metro areas. You see the same thing with New York paired with Newark.
        • apcragg 9y ago
          An Amazon HQ2 in Northern Virginia would cripple the already strained road infrastructure, especially given Metro's existing difficulties. Dulles seems like an obvious choice given the tech corridor and proximity to IA but 28 and the toll road are incredibly crowded as it is.
          • deleted 9y ago
            [deleted]
      • awinder 9y ago
• rcchen 9y ago
  Oof unfortunate that Detroit missed the cut, wonder why that happened; they seemed reasonably competitive from an outsider's perspective.
  • wafflesraccoon 9y ago
    I assume Detroit has a lot of the same problems that St Louis has, they are both great little cities with an up and coming tech industry but hiring skilled talent and conniving them to move to the area is a nightmare.
    • maxerickson 9y ago
      Oakland county to the north of Detroit and Washtenaw county to the west of Detroit are two of the wealthiest, most highly educated counties in the country. And the cities surrounding Detroit have a lot less problems than the city itself.
      • ghaff 9y ago
        I think the parent's point still probably stands. Wherever they end up, assuming there really is a 50K HQ2 in the end, they have to convince a lot of people to relocate. And a lot of people would be: 1.) Detroit, no thanks or 2.) I can live with Detroit but when I end up leaving Amazon after 2 years like so many people do, I'd have to find a job in a different location. I imagine the talent question at least factored in--schools in the general area notwithstanding.
        • maxerickson 9y ago
          My point is that the problem is largely one of perception. The hundreds of thousands of people in the area with technical educations aren't working at McDonald's.
          • s73ver_ 9y ago
            "My point is that the problem is largely one of perception." That very well might be true, but that's Detroit's problem to fix, not Amazon's. Amazon doesn't want to have to deal with that; they want a place that they can get people to come to day 1.
• soared 9y ago
  The page keeps crashing on iOS about 80% of the way through, can someone post the actual list?
  • runwerks 9y ago
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/hero-1500900-hq2candidates.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything...
  • uptown 9y ago
    Atlanta Austin, Tex. Boston Chicago Columbus, Ohio Dallas Denver Indianapolis Los Angeles Miami Montgomery County, Md. Nashville Newark New York Northern Virginia Phladelphia Pittsburgh Raleigh, N.C. Toronto, Canada Washington, D.C.
• maxfurman 9y ago
  No big surprises here, but I'm glad to see Philly is still in the running.
• nsx147 9y ago
  Ask for Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area to build better transportation, and that's the pick
  • chairmanwow 9y ago
    100% agree with you here.
  • michaelmarion 9y ago
    +1. Proximity to Duke/UNC/NCSU/WFU means there are plenty of local new grads, MBAs, and Ph.D's. Already a pipeline of foreign talent immigrating to the Research Triangle. Good weather. Beach is three hours one way and the mountains are three hours the other. Local government will throw themselves at Amazon.
  • bradleyjg 9y ago
    That's a multi-decade project. They should get started now and will be competitive for whatever the Amazon of 2040 is. The first step is a backbone rail line that starts in Chapel Hill, runs up to Duke, then through Durham to RTP, to the Airport, and from there to and through Raleigh. Then add spurs and spokes to cover the region and funnel people to the backbone. Good luck getting the legislature to authorize, much less fund that.
    • noahl 9y ago
      The Chapel Hill-Durham section of that is already in planning: http://ourtransitfuture.com/projects/lrt/ http://ourtransitfuture.com/projects/lrt/
    • tamcap 9y ago
      The current airport authority will sadly fight rail at the airport tooth and nail. I believe they make more money off parking fees than the flight ops. Moreover, the strongest / largest municipality in the region (Wake/Raleigh) seems to be the least interested in serious non-road public transport projects, as they just withdrew from their chunk of the light rail connection with Durham / CH.
    • 9y ago
• nerdponx 9y ago
  What a circus.
  • briankelly 9y ago
    They missed a great opportunity to do this as a game show. Pit the mayors against each other Survivor-style and vote one off each week - they could've even staged it in the Amazon. But yeah in all seriousness this is obnoxious.
    • dx034 9y ago
      Oh yeah, but as a new season of Takeshi's castle! That would be amazing! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeshi's_Castle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeshi's_Castle
• muninn_ 9y ago
  Nothing new here. I think the list is really down to 17, since I don't see Amazon putting a new HQ in NYC, DC, or LA. We already knew the top 20 or so areas, probably top 15. The interesting news is that now some of these periphery cities have an opportunity to further state their case; I'm looking at you Columbus, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Miami.
• ihsw2 9y ago
  No Ottawa, very disappointing.
• hprotagonist 9y ago
  on realpolitik grounds, Indianapolis would be a fascinating choice.
  • holtalanm 9y ago
    I was going to say that Indianapolis is probably a good choice simply because its airport is an international freight hub, as well. Proximity to an international airport that can easily handle Amazon's shipments has got to count for something, right?
    • freehunter 9y ago
      Depends on if they're building a tech headquarters or a distribution center. For an office building, freight isn't nearly as much of a concern.
    • hylianwarrior 9y ago
      Amazon already has a couple warehouses here as well!
  • jonlucc 9y ago
    Why would that be? I live in Indy, and it just seems like the only thing we have going for us is an abundance of Amazon warehouses.
    • hylianwarrior 9y ago
      Cost of living / housing prices, available space for new buildings, tax incentives, etc, etc.
  • opportune 9y ago
    The main problem with some of these cities, Indianapolis in particular, is that it might be hard to attract software developers to go live there. Even though the dollar goes farther in Indianapolis, after adjusting for cost of living, you would still need to add a bonus to entice developers to live there rather than Seattle. I grew up near Indianapolis and I certainly would not live there over Seattle, for political/cultural preferences that in my experience most developers share with me
• rbcgerard 9y ago
  Newark?
  • rpiguy 9y ago
    Easy access to three airports, the Turnpike, New York City, lots of college educated people from surrounding areas and tons of universities within a thirty mile radius. They also already have offices there for Audible, and a huge distribution center in southern, NJ. It is possible, but I think unlikely. For all those good points, you can get them in other cities with lower cost of labor, lower taxes, etc. Though taxes might not count for much given the wheeling and dealing states are willing to do to get the business.
• holydude 9y ago
  I wish i could live in North America. You guys have it so exciting out there ;). Hopefully it goes to a region that kinda needs it and can grow further.
  • freehunter 9y ago
    I guarantee someone in North America has said the exact same thing about your country :) Everyone wants to be somewhere else.
    • dominotw 9y ago
      <deleted>
      • freehunter 9y ago
        Mmmm, you might be surprised. Much like there's a romantic view of the US from other countries, there's a romantic view of India for some Americans. India is an absolutely massive, diverse country with a lot to offer. The Beatles spent a lot of time in India and came back very different people. That's enough to draw some level of interest from folks looking for a spiritual journey, not to mention the history of their (to many Americans) mysterious, exotic, and ancient religions. But from that guy's post history, I'm guessing he's from Central or Eastern Europe, which does hold a far more massive draw for many Americans.
  • meri_dian 9y ago
    I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted, North America (America and Canada at least) is a world class economic dynamo.
• frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  What's the point of announcing your candidate cities? Seems like it's only there so that the two or three cities they're really considering have to throw loads of tax breaks at them.
  • pyrophane 9y ago
    That is probably the entire point of making it a competition. Make the cities compete against one another. Perhaps once a city is a finalist it’s leaders get together and say “we’ve made it this far. What can we do to close the deal?”
  • rplnt 9y ago
    Well, yes. Your answer to your question is correct I think, and a good reason to do it this way.
  • EADGBE 9y ago
    Probably a "Dear John" letter.
  • crispyambulance 9y ago
    So the leadership in all the cities falls over themselves to bend over the most for Amazon? Amazon will play them off each other use the offers to leverage the city or cities they "really" want. I think folks are expecting too much from Amazon. The cities are hoping for an influx of taxpayers with big incomes, but what will really happen is that Amazon will simply build a campus, the bulk of the "tech workers" will live in a wide swath of exburbs around the city. The commuters will stress the transportation infrastructure of the city and the "tax breaks" will greatly limit the actual benefits the cities see. Of course even that is contingent on the whims of Amazon. They're soliciting solemn proposals that fork over a lot of benefits and promises. Whereas on the Amazon side, they could change their minds before even building the facility-- or just build a much smaller facility, or build several much much smaller facilities in several cities, all of which leverage the "highest bidder" benefits. I don't believe them and I don't believe the "50000" jobs number. It is too round a number that seems like it was dreamed up by a PR goon. And what is the point of an HQ2 anyway? Isn't ONE HQ enough? How many HQ's does a company need in one country?
• gshakir 9y ago
  The whole west coast seems to be ruled out, so clearly geography is coming into play.
  • aaronarduino 9y ago
    Except for Los Angeles, that is.
    • sjg007 9y ago
      Bezos has a house there. So we should rank these by where the CEO has a house.
      • joveian 9y ago
        Wow, he has way more houses than I imagined. Two each in Medina, Wa and Beverly Hills, Ca. 30000 acres in Van Horn, Tx (not actually anywhere near Austin or Dallas despite being in Texas). Also, the single largest house in DC and a mere three condos in New York City (right next to Central Park). http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-owns-five-massive-homes-across-the-united-states-2017-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-owns-five-massive-...
    • kenhwang 9y ago
      I can't imagine Los Angeles being a serious contender. - Land is expensive and not particularly abundant. Mid-Wilshire is relatively cheap has great proximity to everything (airport, downtown, west LA, Hollywood) if Amazon is willing to invest in the gentrification of the area. - Labor cost is within 10% of Bay/Seattle/NYC - Mass transit is currently effectively non-existent. - One of the highest taxed cities in the nation. On the plus side, there's: + A very well connected international airport + A lot of top tier universities nearby (CalTech, UCLA, USC, UCSB, UCSD, UCI, Pepperdine); any one of which can single handedly supply a workforce comparable to the other candidate cities. It's a lot easier moving people and airplanes to the other cities than it is creating cheap well connected land in LA.
      • 9y ago
• empath75 9y ago
  If it doesn’t end up somewhere on the silver line in northern Virginia, I’ll eat my hat. Plenty of housing, transit straight to the city or an international airport, convenient access to the nations capital for lobbying, in the middle of us-east-1, a large population of tech workers, lots of local universities, right in the middle of the east coast...
  • SAS24 9y ago
    I wonder if this is more or less likely to make that a reality. Amazon Web Services to set up East Coast corporate campus in Fairfax County https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2017/06/08/amazon-web-services-to-set-up-corporate-campus.html https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2017/06/08/amazo...
  • harryh 9y ago
    And Jeff Bezos recently bought a $23M home in DC. CEO residence location is a strong predictor of where businesses set up shop. I also think it's telling that 3 of the 20 listed cities are DC + DC suburbs.
  • corpMaverick 9y ago
    TIL about the Silver Line. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(Washington_Metro) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(Washington_Metro)
• tabeth 9y ago
  I feel as though there are too many cities. I'd be curious to know what the top 5 are. My picks, in no particular order: - Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - Chicago - Denver In all likelihood it'll be Boston or Denver.
  • rmrfrmrf 9y ago
    Are these dev jobs? If so, time zone coverage = less hours on call
    • tabeth 9y ago
      Are what dev jobs? HQ2 should have a pretty large mix of roles, similar to HQ1.
      • rmrfrmrf 9y ago
        Rephrased: will this new HQ be hiring primarily developers? I’m not familiar with HQ1.
        • tabeth 9y ago
          My understanding is that it's literally another HQ. So they'd be hiring all roles -- developers, marketing professionals, sales, etc.
  • dhimes 9y ago
    <please not Boston> <please not Boston> <please not Boston>
  • Thriptic 9y ago
    I'd love Amazon to come to Boston, although admittedly it would not help our existing transportation and housing problems. Maybe Bezos could strong arm the state into actually fixing the T XD
  • cbHXBY1D 9y ago
    These are 5 of the most likely but who is giving the biggest tax breaks? Knowing how Bezos works, I guarantee he has a team who are creating spreadsheet after spreadsheet, and the winning city will be chosen by some algorithm which saves them the most money over time.
• thisisit 9y ago
  This whole shtick reminds me of a time when one of employers was getting a new office. Lot of places were proposed so that people had to travel less. But it all came down to BCP or business continuity plan. The plan stated both offices needed to be at least 9.5 miles or 15 kms apart. In case of service disruption atleast one office should be up and running.
• codeonfire 9y ago
  HQ2 will not work. Amazon grew in Seattle because of its access to H1B labor from Asia, liberalism, and attitudes towards business and work. Much of the rest of the country is North Korea business-wise. There is no way Seattle management will allow half the revenue to flow to another office. I'm sure the board thinks the two HQ's will compete, producing incredible productivity. Workers compete, management destroys. Two executive management sets competing for control of Amazon's hundreds of billions in revenue will just destroy each other.
  • freehunter 9y ago
    Yep, it's completely impossible for businesses to exist outside of Seattle, which is why the rest of the country is such a desolate wasteland of economic strife.
    • deleted 9y ago
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    • codeonfire 9y ago
      It is a desolate wasteland of economic strife. Why do you think 240 cities threw billions at Amazon? The culture has to be replicated, which most of America is not willing to do.
      • freehunter 9y ago
        All those poor, broke cities like New York, Chicago, Denver, Miami, Pittsburgh, Austin, Los Angeles, man they look to Seattle like a shining beacon of economic prosperity and liberal ideas. If only New York had the kind of money that Seattle does, then things would be different.
        • codeonfire 9y ago
          Yeah there is a lot of money in New York. It is all dead money sitting in accounts and low risk investments. There is no new money being generated. Amazon feeds off of growth, not having wealth. Growth wise, those areas are doing...what exactly? Trying to get their politicians to get Amazon to put an HQ there. Having money is not a business.
• saalweachter 9y ago
  I wonder if New York is just New York City, or New York Metropolitan region. I guess including Newark makes the latter unlikely, but with IBM shuttering a chunk of its operations here, the Hudson Valley is full of empty IBM office parks and desperate local governments, while close to infrastructure.
  • bradleyjg 9y ago
    It's pretty far from a decent airport. HPN and SWF have flights to only a few destinations and the only mass transit that services them are buses. Poughkeepsie to EWR is no less than 2.5 hours on public transportation and 1.5 hours by car. About the same for JFK. Newburgh and Fishkill are even worse.
    • saalweachter 9y ago
      Yeah, I'm real curious how much that factors into things. I think the "no mass transit" problem isn't really a real problem; most American cities don't have mass transit that is good enough for people visiting from another office to use. I've tried visiting Mountain View with and without renting a car, and it's technically possible, but I gave up on not. Buses are perfectly cromulent forms of mass transit, but tend to be too scary for visitors to use (buses can go anywhere, and it is very confusing/stressful to try to figure out if you are at the right stop and if the bus that just stopped is the right bus, when you are unfamiliar with the system). I can see the objection to not being a hub airport from both ends. As a normal traveler, SWF is great: easy to get to, park, and navigate, not too expensive, and pretty much anywhere I'm going is one connection away. From the perspective of a company, yeah, I can see it being a bigger negative. The VPs may not personally want to take non-direct flights, the costs might be more noticeable, and if your destinations are also second-tier airports, you're now talking probably two connections. Especially for what's supposed to be their #2 office, a hub airport may just be a hard constraint. The upper Hudson Valley probably is too far from New York to really mooch off of its infrastructure, but the lower Hudson Valley (Peekskill, Croton Harmon) probably isn't; however, not coincidentally, you've got a lot more empty office parks in the upper HV cities you mentioned.
  • 9y ago
• rblion 9y ago
  knowing my luck, it'll be Atlanta
• CodeSheikh 9y ago
  My money is on Vriginia particularly Loudoun county. Amazon AWS data centers are already there. Many other data center vendors are moving in hords. Land is cheap and in abundance there. VA allows easy access to eastern and southern states. People who want to work for Amazon would move eventually. Major metro-city is not going to happen. UPDATE: Spelling mistake
• rainbowmverse 9y ago
  Atlanta is right in the middle of many of the world's flight paths (there's a city outside the airport!), has lots of fiber, and the state already showed a willingness to work at all levels to get a big, logistics-dependent business with the Caterpillar plant. The latter point is probably the most important.
  • freehunter 9y ago
    >(there's a city outside the airport!) You say that, but my experience is that there's a traffic jam outside the airport, and then an hour and a half later you get to Alpharetta ;)
    • ebragg09 9y ago
      The proposed locations are on MARTA (the main one is 15 minutes from the airport by direct rail), and certainly not all the way up in Alpharetta.
• indescions_2018 9y ago
  Just visited Pittsburgh. There is indeed a renaissance happing in that town. The restaurant scene alone is phenomenal. And the addition of a FANG level HQ could cement its burgeoning international reputation as a destination. The idea is that CMU spits out about 200+ world class CS grads a year. If even 5% decide to stay in the area to start their own ventures. There would be potential for massive growth. the other data points that shocked me is that the population of Greater Austin, Texas is now 2.5M souls! I still think of it as a sleepy southern college town like Athens, GA ;) And that Denver is experiencing a net influx of 10K people per day!
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  • planteen 9y ago
    Denver isn't gaining 10K people a day - that would be insane! This article says 13K people in a year to Denver city & county: https://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/28/denvers-growth-spurt-slows-down/ https://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/28/denvers-growth-spurt-s... It looks like Colorado's population is around 5.7 million with an annual growth rate of 1.4% - so about 80K people per year for the state. http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/colorado-population/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/colorado-population/
    • corpMaverick 9y ago
      Do you know why is housing in Denver so expensive ? It seems to have good density. Even small towns in Colorado look expensive.
      • planteen 9y ago
        Nice small mountain towns, especially those near ski areas, are expensive. But towns and cities on the plains (e.g., Ft. Morgan) are pretty inexpensive. And southern Colorado cities like Pueblo and Colorado Springs are also a lot more inexpensive. Denver and Boulder are quite expensive.
• tfolbrecht 9y ago
  I think Miami would be good strategically for Amazons future warm-water port. Joking aside, What sort of hoops do they expect these city and state governments jump through?
  • astrodust 9y ago
    Given how southern Florida is at risk of going under-water, this is a strange thing to see on the list.
• jedanbik 9y ago
  Direct connection from RDU to SEA as of 2015: https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2015/10/01/alaska-airlines-seattle-rdu-flight-russell-wilson.html https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2015/10/01/alaska-... For Amazon's decision, NC politics probably take points away, but right to work probably adds points in favor.
• scioto 9y ago
  Please, not Austin. Austin is full. Not enough water for the current population. At least one local park requires a waiting list to get in, and you can only spend a half day there. Mass transit is a joke. Commutes are terrible. Go away.
• runevault 9y ago
  With how bad traffic/congestion is right now (in spite of our light rail/bus infrastructure) I'm surprised Denver is in the top 20. Especially since last by my understanding the city was offering a less rich incentive package than a lot of the other cities.
  • planteen 9y ago
    I'd say the congestion in Denver is less than Atlanta, DC, and Boston. Those cities are all front runners as well.
    • runevault 9y ago
      Having not lived in those areas I can't say. The important question is how capable are they of alleviating the issues? Denver right now has a massive problem where they can't really seem to do much to lower congestion.
• british_india 9y ago
  Indianapolis will win.
• corpMaverick 9y ago
  For the companies/individuals that hold the keys to the real state in the winning city, it is like winning the lottery. Even if they have no knowledge whatsoever of software or technology.
• markstos 9y ago
  My money is on the three targets clustered around Washington, DC. If there are three cities that are so promising so close together, it seems like a good place to land.
  • dhimes 9y ago
    Since Bezos owns the Post it would also be convenient.
• tinduck 9y ago
  No New Orleans, Detroit, or Memphis. I really wished they considered a majority African American community that has the capacity to grow. This is just going to increase inequality. Sad really. Let's hope for Atlanta.
  • Omniusaspirer 9y ago
    They can always move for work just like most people already do if they end up working for Amazon now in Seattle. There's also likely going to a serious spike in living costs within any reasonable commute around the headquarters, so the net impact on the statistically poorer African Americans population in these cities would be pretty unlikely to be a positive one.
  • RKearney 9y ago
    No Laredo, Brownsville, or El Paso. I really wished they considered a majority Hispanic community that has the capacity to grow. This is just going to increase in-quality. Sad really. Let's hope for Miami. Or maybe let's not turn every corporate decision into a race war.
  • southphillyman 9y ago
    >I really wished they considered a majority African American community that has the capacity to grow Philadelphia and Newark are on the list
• dmode 9y ago
  Please please pick Toronto. My immigrant future in the US is still uncertain after being here for 12 years. Would be great if Canadian tech ecosystem gets a boost so that I and countless others in my position have options
  • muninn_ 9y ago
    Are the U.S. and Canada your only options? What about China or India? Maybe Brasil or somewhere like France?
  • jamestimmins 9y ago
    This could also be great for immigration in the US, as it is an obvious economic argument for the importance of reform.
• DiNovi 9y ago
  this is still so bizarre
• wyattk 9y ago
  Something about this just makes my stomach sick... A massive corporation is pitting governments against each other for its own gain, often to no benefit of the local population. I'm scared to see the numbers of "incentives" that local politicians try and hand out to Amazon. There's little evidence that the public money used/lost will ever be recouped. One of the worst cases of this happening so far is the Foxconn deal in Wisconsin that will cost taxpayers around $4.5B [1], and I feel that numbers for Amazon will dwarf those Foxconn numbers. The US is far removed from the days of trust busting [2], and keeping massive corporations (monopolies and oligopolies) and their market distorting effects in check, for the long-term benefit of the entire economy and the people. There seems to be a lot of similarities between now and the late 1800s and early 1900s. We live in a strange time. I get the feeling there will be a strong resurgence of antitrust cases and similar progressive policies. I'm curious to see where the near future takes us. 1: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/memo-foxconn-cost-to-public-nearing-billion/article_83a3ab6e-6c7e-553e-ba97-976c9c32fe76.html http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/mem... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Theodore_Roosevelt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Theodore_Rooseve...
  • sweetishfish 9y ago
    With regards to your first point - it's not really costing taxpayers in Wisconsin $4.5B . At least for the tax credits portion, those are taxes that would not have been paid in Wisconsin otherwise.
    • dtauzell 9y ago
      They are refundable tax credits so WI could be paying money they wouldn't have.
    • drcode 9y ago
      I guess I also don't need to pay taxes anymore, because if I don't pay taxes those are just taxes that wouldn't have been paid otherwise.
      • 9y ago
• lurker10000 9y ago
  If you haven't seen this yet, this gambling site has Atlanta, GA / Boston, MA / Austin, TX as the top three choices for HQ2. http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&ev_type_id=22711 http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&ev_type_id=2271...
  • nsnick 9y ago
    It also has Portland and Cleveland as the next most likely and they have been eliminated. Gambling sites are not useful for decisions like this which are made by a small group of people. Gambling sites are useful for things like elections where you want to sample a small part of the large population.
    • ghaff 9y ago
      >not useful for decisions like this which are made by a small group of people I'm not sure that's quite true. For example, a Wisdom of the Crowds consensus approach can do really well in picking Academy Awards winners for example. It's not immediately obvious that you can't take the same approach here. The bigger issue is probably that, while with the Academy Awards experienced pickers can bring a fair amount of historical perspective about the types of things that win, precursor awards, etc. in this case: - There's no track record to look at - No one outside of the people involved know what's going on behind the scenes - No one knows how Bezos & company are really thinking about this, what they really value, etc. So in the end, the crowd has so little real information to go on, any Wisdom of the crowds is going to be incredibly noisy. The wisdom of the crowds assumes everyone is not just throwing a random dart at a map.
  • BoiledCabbage 9y ago
    The cumulative odds on this site add up to larger than 100%. Austin (3:1) - 25% | Boston (3:1) - 25% | Atlanta (3:1)- 25% | DC (10:1) - 9% | Pitt (10:1) - 9% | Nyc (12:1) - 7.5% | Toronto ( 14:1) - 6% We're already at greater than 100% (106.5%). And there are 13 more cities with >= ~5% chance. It's pretty tough to have any faith in this site or their odds. Could've been an interesting data point to look at though.
• sideband 9y ago
  Amazon could only benefit from having multiple state and municipal governments in competition within any general metro area that they are seriously considering. I think it's a bit telling that Washington, D.C., Montgomery County in Maryland and "Northern Virginia" are all on the list, as well as both Newark and New York City.
• DeepYogurt 9y ago
  They really should just go to Honolulu. Who wouldn't want to work there?
  • seansmccullough 9y ago
    Cost of living is bad, and it takes an entire day to get back to the mainland.
• cephaslr 9y ago
  After reading these comments it makes me realize just how limiting transportation is and how big of a drag it is. Austin/Boston/DC/Atlanta/Denver/others are all great locations with transportation issues. Even some of the more rural locations such as RDU would quickly fill up with 50k new tech workers join the existing the two-lane highways. It seems like the best solution currently is the Apple/Google wifi buse with 90 minute 1-way commute part of your workday. The highway system itself is an innovation from the 50's and (In My Humble Opinion) lack of continued innovation on the US transport system since has significantly contributed to the loss of US technical/economic leadership since then.
  • cannonedhamster 9y ago
    This is why I'm hoping it doesn't end up in Boston proper. Traffic is already unbearable for a large chunk of the state during rush hours.
    • ghaff 9y ago
      Even for driving in for the evening, i.e. a reverse commute, Boston/Cambridge traffic has gotten sufficiently worse that I don't go in as much any longer. And the commuter rail I take on the sometimes occasions that I go in for a work day was standing room only starting at Waltham, 30 minutes outside the city, the last time I took it. There's already the GE Headquarters and a large Amazon building going into the Seaport and building continues in Kendall Square. And this is a city that has a relatively good public transit system.
    • leggomylibro 9y ago
      I'm not even sure how Boston wound up in the running. I love the city, but it's experiencing a biotech boom and already has crazy expensive real estate, issues with crowding/traffic, all that jazz. The city would HATE it, even more than Seattle did. And let me tell you, the ostracization in Seattle is extremely painful. I don't think it would turn out to be a good working environment. I guess it has a lot of educational institutions, but honestly, in its position, I'd sort of expect a company like Amazon to want to start getting more involved in educational outreach themselves.
• megaman22 9y ago
  I'm kind of surprised none of the old upstate NY tech cities are on this list. Syracuse or Rochester, maybe?
  • tchock23 9y ago
    Yeah - I was bummed/surprised about this. Untapped pools of well educated (and loyal) tech workers, low cost of living, no significant infrastructure issues, easy driving access to major cities - there is a lot Amazon could have taken advantage of here...
• arcaster 9y ago
  If they come to Boston, I'll be leaving ASAP. Please don't ruin Austin either...
  • nkassis 9y ago
    I highly doubt they could ruin boston, the city is big enough to absorb this.
    • EamonnMR 9y ago
      Maybe they could get Amazon to rig up a new signaling system for the T. The current one has really mediocre uptime at peak hours.
• tartuffe78 9y ago
  All the Mayors of these cities will now engage in a hunger games style competition at Jeff Bezos' estate for the privilege.
  • Pokepokalypse 9y ago
    If Amazon were streaming that show, I'd pay for it. Hell, I'd pay $29.99 to see it in HD!
  • dang 9y ago
    Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
• md2be 9y ago
  Imagine if Amazon single handedly turned Staten Island into Brooklyn
• korzun 9y ago
  I'm betting it will be Miami. Short flight to both of their HQ's, great weather, a lot of space, and tons of new developments.
• hinkley 9y ago
  It amuses me to think of what will happen to Amazon’s neurotic overworking culture if their other HQ in Miami or Denver. I can’t see amazon casting a big enough cultural shadow to change those cities instead of those cities changing them.
  • briankelly 9y ago
    Seattle has (had?) to be similar enough to Denver in that regard and everything I've heard about Miami is work hard play hard so I guess I don't see why they'd have a problem fitting in either of those.
  • hbosch 9y ago
    Hm. I have always thought of Seattle and Denver having equally blue-leaning, outdoorsy, marijuana-legalizing, progressively-led cities. What are the cultural differences between them that you're thinking of?
    • zbobet2012 9y ago
      Colorado has a more laid back lifestyle than Seattle in my experience. When people say "work life balance" here, they actually mean it. When I go to coffee or happy hour in Seattle people seem to be just talking more shop. In Colorado we talk about skiing, biking, etc. Everyone.
    • pdelbarba 9y ago
      The outdoors are extremely accessible here in Denver. The culture here is very strongly in favor work/life balance since everyone hauls ass out into the mountains every Friday afternoon.
      • BookmarkSaver 9y ago
        That's basically how it is in Seattle.
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
• dude01 9y ago
  I could swear I read that the EU does not allow this kind of bidding war for tax reduction by companies, but I can't find it online. The US certainly allows it, which I think is a bad idea.
  • lolsal 9y ago
    Why?
    • dude01 9y ago
      Assuming Amazon is going to create an HQ somewhere in America, consider the two situations: 1) Current situation, they will eventually get a very large tax cut from wherever they select. 2) Hypothetical situation: local tax breaks are not allowed, Amazon selects a location and pays the local taxes that it avoided in situation #1.
      • noetic_techy 9y ago
        Only looking at tax revenue and not the overall impact of 50,000 new non-McJobs and a potential new techhub catalyst is pretty myopic.
      • lolsal 9y ago
        You think small governments (states, or cities being 'small') having autonomy over how they tax themselves is a bad thing? There are more than two situations, or you're over-simplifying the effect of a massive company like Amazon moving to a city. A 'tax cut' does not mean they are contributing $0 to the local economy. I would guess (I'm not a city planner or anything like that) the overall economic impact of such a move vastly offsets any tax breaks offered (even if that means there are less taxes being given directly to those governing bodies).
        • meddlepal 9y ago
          The European mindset to everything seems to be regulate, regulate and regulate some more.
• sjg007 9y ago
  I was hoping the Twin cities would get a nod. Maybe it could still happen if Amazon buys Target. Denver makes a lot of sense. It's a nice place for executives to live, not far from ski resorts which makes the winter bearable. Los Angeles would be great too but traffic is a nightmare. It might make sense for them to be close to Hollywood as well. You'd want to be in the South bay since anyone with money will want to live near the beach.
  • ellisv 9y ago
    > Maybe it could still happen if Amazon buys Target. I was going to say that I could never see that happening but then I remembered they bought Whole Foods.
• bhewes 9y ago
  Oh so every large city that is business friendly and that is a decision?
• JoeDaDude 9y ago
  Philadelphia made the list, but they also pitched three separate locations [1] within the city. It is not clear if all 3 are under consideration or if one or more of the locations has been ruled out. [1] http://www.philly.com/philly/business/real_estate/commercial/the-three-sites-philly-is-pitching-to-amazon-20170915.html http://www.philly.com/philly/business/real_estate/commercial...
  • gist 9y ago
    Navy Yard makes sense since then there is also property that is cheap across the river in Camden and Southern NJ. Easy to get there over the bridge as well and there is public transit should people decide to live across the river.
• asciimo 9y ago
  I'm disappointed that Detroit isn't on the list. My money is on Nashville or Denver. Hm... I wonder if how hard it would be to set up a decentralized blockchain pool to wager on the winner...
  • brohoolio 9y ago
    The Metro-Detroit area voted down a public transit system a year or two ago. Public transit was one of the requirements that Amazon laid out.
    • ryangallen 9y ago
      I'm already not disappointed that we didn't get Amazon's HQ but I'm still disappointed about the Regional Transit vote. Luckily it might be on the ballot again in 2018.
    • astrodust 9y ago
      A more progressive Amazon would build public transit. The robber-baron companies used to wholesale reshape society to fit their vision. It's almost disappointing Amazon doesn't try.
  • ubiquitysc 9y ago
    As a resident, I think Nashville would be a really interesting choice. Nashville only recently approved a big transit plan though and it would destroy commute times in the city if the HQ was built here before the new transit system was completed. Traffic is already at unacceptable levels as is.
• patrickxb 9y ago
  I think travel between HQ and HQ2 has to be a nonstop flight for it to be viable. The cities sorted by number of nonstops to Seattle per day: Los Angeles 23 Denver 18 Chicago 14 Dallas 12 Washington, D.C. 7 Atlanta 6 Newark 6 New York 6 Boston 5 Austin 3 Nashville 2 Philadelphia 2 Raleigh, N.C. 2 Indianapolis 1 Toronto, Canada 1 Miami 1 Columbus 0 Pittsburgh 0 Montgomery County, Md. ? Northern Virginia ?
  • nsnick 9y ago
    Pittsburgh has flights to Seattle. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/11/15/alaska-airlines-adds-pittsburgh-its-route-map/867625001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/... Also, Northern Virginia is the location of Dulles. Montgomery county would also use Dulles or BWI which has 3 flights per day. Interestingly, with traffic, Washington D.C. is not within 45 minutes of Dulles so Washington D.C. is probably just looking at Reagan which has 1 flight per day to Seattle.
    • apcragg 9y ago
      The silver line will to IAD will be open by the time HQ2 is being built. That puts it ~35mins by Metro when leaving the city. IAD is a huge international airport as well and has much smoother infrastructure than National Airport.
  • phildougherty 9y ago
    There may be some chances for an improvement at Pittsburgh airport with the announcement of $1.1bn in major renovations being funded: http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/09/12/Pittsburgh-International-Airport-Allegheny-County-Authority-board-vote-plan-new-landside-terminal/stories/201709120131 http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2017/09/12/... I could see Southwest adding a PIT -> Seattle non-stop in a hurry if needed.
  • jrs95 9y ago
    If this were true, why would cities that don’t have this even be on the list?
• bob_theslob646 9y ago
  Kind of funny most of them have airports. Really makes you realize how much the traveling salesmen problem(route optimization) is embedded in everything they do.
• ForrestN 9y ago
  It's interesting how little culture figures in to this conversation. It seems to me that the North and the South (Canada aside) are drastically different in ways that will really matter to a lot of people. I don't work at Amazon, but my family and I would not feel fully safe or comfortable living in Texas, Tennessee, Georgia or North Carolina.
  • gizmo385 9y ago
    > my family and I would not feel fully safe or comfortable living in Texas, Tennessee, Georgia or North Carolina I'm a little surprised by this. You wouldn't feel safe? Why not?
    • biohax2015 9y ago
      They are probably a minority. There is rampant racism in these states and many don’t even try to hide their discrimination.
      • lolsal 9y ago
        > rampant: flourishing or spreading unchecked. I have lived in the south for 33 years (in particular, one of these states mentioned) - if you think that racism is flourishing or spreading unchecked you are misinformed. It exists, but it's dying. Please stop spreading hyperbole like this.
        • welcome_dragon 9y ago
          Having lived in the South for the past 8 years and the North for ... Well many more ... I 100% agree with your statement. I've learned that people here (the South) are far more accepting and far less racist than up north.
        • tallanvor 9y ago
          Racism is still alive in the south, though, even if it's not as bad as people from more liberal areas think. However, I can certainly tell you that as a gay man, I do not expect that I will feel comfortable living in any southern state during my lifetime. I lasted 3 years in Raleigh before I had to get out (and that was long before the bathroom bill).
• drumttocs8 9y ago
  Amazon would have the greatest impact in Atlanta. You could argue that Atlanta is the economic, cultural, and geographical center of the Southeastern United States. It has the busiest airport in the world and is a major rail hub. There are already dozens of major corporations headquaratered in Atlanta. There is no shortage of talent, with a top-5 engineering school in Georgia Tech. Yet there are things missing which are preventing Atlanta from becoming a modern powerhouse; strong mass transit is probably the most obvious, and progressive policies another. This kind of investment by Amazon could be exactly what Atlanta needs to bring it back to the world stage. The only other city I could possibly see as being close would be Raleigh, for similar reasons.
  • ovrdrv3 9y ago
    I remember the initial thread[1] with the announcement had many good things to say about Atlanta too. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15192930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15192930
  • epmatsw 9y ago
    From what I’ve heard, there’s a bunch of mostly unused land south of the football stadium that has been slowly being bought up over the last year or so. Obvious speculation is that it’s either Amazon or someone betting that Amazon will want to buy a big chunk of land near downtown...
    • echelon 9y ago
      The "Gulch": http://www.myajc.com/business/new-filings-for-huge-project-atlanta-gulch-possible-amazon-site/oKsh5igs5r8cNkfCkVF9CL/ http://www.myajc.com/business/new-filings-for-huge-project-a... http://atlantaintownpaper.com/2017/11/gulch-become-amazons-new-headquarters/ http://atlantaintownpaper.com/2017/11/gulch-become-amazons-n...
    • paxy 9y ago
      Would be a pretty big slap in the face for all other "contestants" if it turns out that Amazon intended to move to Atlanta all along and this whole thing was only for publicity and leverage.
• Infernal 9y ago
  I was surprised at the goofy map they used here - the bottom third of the country seems vertically compressed (see the angle of Florida's peninsula, or how squashed the bottom of Texas is). Also... Raleigh is south of Nashville (not north the way their map has it) and Nashville is 100 + miles east of where they've got it (based on Louisiana). Just surprising that so little time apparently went into it, maybe maps are harder than I think?
• codeonfire 9y ago
  My post explaining why I thought other cities would not be able to replicate the growth that Amazon achieved in Seattle was removed due to censorship. Some people didn't like that idea. What a crock of shit. So goodbye "hacker" news, lol.
• Rotor 9y ago
  Los Angeles (i.e. Hollywood) could be a strategic move given Amazon's massive push in original series and programming via Amazon Studios. Also, shares a coast with Seattle.
  • kenhwang 9y ago
    I'm thinking more mid-city/mid-Wilshire area. Still close to Hollywood/WestLA/DTLA but much much cheaper and less dense.
  • tallanvor 9y ago
    And LAX has good flights to Asia, which is important for sourcing goods.
  • codekilla 9y ago
    El Segundo would probably make the most sense....exact proximity to LAX, friendly business climate, lot's of warehouse space being converted into offices already.
  • JAFTEM 9y ago
    They would also have a monopoly on CS grads in the LA area ([0] among the highest number of grads in the country) which is experiencing a serious brain drain of talent to the Bay Area, NYC, and Seattle. [0] https://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/24/is-southern-california-suffering-a-tech-brain-drain/ https://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/24/is-southern-california...
    • stevenwoo 9y ago
      I'm surprised that LA is experiencing such a brain drain, anecdotally, it seemed there were quite a few LA/SD area jobs in last month's job listing.
      • JAFTEM 9y ago
        My gut tells me the job market is worst for junior devs in SoCal. Junior level openings aren't growing nearly as fast as the number of students trying to break into the workforce. A total of 0 of my friends at USC who were CS grads stayed in LA.
• Bhilai 9y ago
  I totally support this move by Amazon and Apple. My hope is Microsoft/Google/Facebook would follow. There is a desperate need for larger tech companies to move away from Bay Area/Seattle and expand into other cities which actually may have cheaper housing and where life may not feel such a challenge, specially for folks with dependents and families.
  • jamestimmins 9y ago
    That's why I hope they don't go to the obvious cities that already have high rents (New York, Austin, Chicago). They could make an enormous, positive impact on many smaller cities, or could do damage to already expensive ones.
    • quacker 9y ago
      > cities that already have high rents (New York, Austin, Chicago) I was curious about this. I live in Austin, and don't think the rent is particularly high there. I just wanted some data. Looking at rent prices on one website in particular (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Austin https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Austin) and using Austin as the baseline: Less expensive candidate cities: - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 43.54% higher than in Columbus, OH - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 40.87% higher than in Indianapolis, IN - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 34.51% higher than in Raleigh, NC - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 26.93% higher than in Pittsburgh, PA - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 24.66% higher than in Newark, NJ - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 18.86% higher than in Dallas, TX - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 9.24% higher than in Atlanta, GA - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 7.51% higher than in Toronto - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 5.29% higher than in Nashville, TN - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 4.49% higher than in Philadelphia, PA More expensive candidate cities: - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 6.64% lower than in Denver, CO - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 10.82% lower than in Chicago, IL - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 20.41% lower than in Miami, FL - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 26.91% lower than in Los Angeles, CA - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 31.45% lower than in Washington, DC - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 36.17% lower than in Boston, MA - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 49.78% lower than in New York, NY - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 56.44% lower than in San Francisco, CA Here's a sortable table of various indexes: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_rankings.jsp?title=2018&region=021 https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_rankings.jsp?ti...
• hosh 9y ago
  I remember reading an article earlier in the year talking about how (1) No city is going to have every characteristic Amazon was asking for so (2) this is really about how much the city is willing to work with Amazon in long-term development plans. From that perspective, some of the cities isn't surprising. For example, I grew up in Columbus, OH and I know that one of the AWS regions is located in the greater Columbus area. The airport is international but it is is not a major hub like Atlanta. When I lived in Seattle, I remember locals there complaining about the transit system -- yet it is way better than what Columbus has. I do know that, Columbus is probably willing to change things about its city to accomodate Amazon. Not just in terms of tax credits, but likely extending all the way out to municipal and regional planning. The same could be said about the other cities -- Austin, Newark, etc.
  • stevenwoo 9y ago
    Austin has one rail line and buses - what solution could they come up for mass transit?
    • hosh 9y ago
      Columbus has zero rail lines and busing is anemic. It is a rust-belt metropolis with some world-class research facilities, (OSU, Ohio Supercomputing Center, Battelle, Chemical Abstracts), a lot of banking (Bank One had its headquarters there before Chicago First bought them out, and there is still a huge IT presence). Columbus is often a test market to try new product lines -- it is large enough and _boring_ enough. Amazon coming in with an HQ would inflect the whole metropolitan area. Everything in Columbus right now pivots around the Ohio State University and the network of research centers, but that center of gravity will probably shift to Amazon if they come in. That is, Amazon would have a huge say in how they want the city to be developed. As for rail: One thing from Atlanta's playbook: create greenspaces out of old rail right-of-way. Some of those may be converted into light rail. Columbus's High St. (the central corridor running down the spine of the city) used to host a trolley line. It's been the target of gentrification, from the Downtown core, through the Short North, and into the OSU campus area. Restoring a light rail line there is not out of the picture, particularly if it is extended to the airport. I only know all of this because I grew up there, and my 6th grade social studies course was on Ohio history. That is local knowledge. I don't know whether Austin can do anything, but I'm pretty sure there are some unique local features that can be just as much of an advantage, things that the locals know but is not so apparent for anyone else. I still think it has a lot more to do with how willing the city is to have their development plan influenced by Amazon more than anything.
• jrs95 9y ago
  Columbus definitely seems like an underdog here but it could be one of the best options on this list. Great talent pool coming out of Ohio State, young people are already moving here, the local economy is doing great, and real estate is still very cheap compared to the national average and many other cities on this list. It seems like the lack of nonstop flights to Seattle is the only real downside to it. But that's something I would think could almost certainly be fixed before the new campus was even finished.
  • theandrewbailey 9y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon has accounts with every major airline. If Amazon wants a daily flight between Seattle and wherever, I'd imagine that some airlines would trip over themselves. I think flights are among the easiest issues to fix.
• ashelmire 9y ago
  Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire people who are not currently residents, while increasing their expenses and utilizing the public services that their taxes have paid for, while receiving little to no tax revenue or services in return.
  • ComradeTaco 9y ago
    I believe that it's completely reasonable for governments to invest massively into public infrastructure to facilitate the success of Amazon HQ. Things like new transit lines, complete streets, public parks etc. It should be a catalyst to invest into parts of the city that have seen substantial urban decay. It irks me however when huge tax credits are handed out to already profitable companies to move in. It's just giving free services at the expense of everyone else.
    • conanbatt 9y ago
      I'd see it as cities charging more taxes than they are actually willing to collect. I.e. the city is happy collecting less % of taxes already, just that most dont have bargaining power.
      • dingo_bat 9y ago
        In other words, they are able to bully individuals, but not corporations.
        • conanbatt 9y ago
          Correct.
  • dghughes 9y ago
    Your comment reminds me sports stadiums being built millions spent for rich professional sports teams. I'm not into sports at all it seems unusual to build what to me seems like a church for worshippers of team X. I'm all for being active but professional sports these days seems like they are a religion.
• femto113 9y ago
  My money is on one of Nashville, Indianapolis or Columbus with Pittsburgh as a dark horse. Amazon is going to be looking to build a major campus (say 5-10 big buildings) right in the center of town (as they've done here in Seattle) and that's just not feasible in expensive cities like LA, Boston, NYC, Chicago or DC. Denver is too far west, Miami, Atlanta and Raleigh too far southeast. Newark and Philadelphia don't have a sufficiently developed tech scene and as satellites of NYC have a price premium. There's no way Seattle and Dallas are going to form a family, Austin looks great on paper but I doubt they're hungry enough to offer sufficient incentives. Don't know why Montgomery County or Northern Virginia are even on this list.
  • jacek 9y ago
    Nashville does not stand a chance. It is growing rapidly, but the infrastructure is not keeping up. It is a car-centric city with almost nonexistent public transportation. As a result there is a citywide gridlock twice a day during rush hours. And not a single alternative. "It's a village that grew too big" is what my SO says about Nashville.
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  • chao- 9y ago
    >There's no way Seattle and Dallas are going to form a family What does that mean? My top five (unordered) guesses are Raleigh, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Toronto and Columbus.
    • Cshelton 9y ago
      I also am curious what he meant by that? I have 4 friends in Dallas from Seattle, they love it and have no intention of moving back.
    • femto113 9y ago
      Boeing contemplated it but decided on Chicago instead. I think it's a cultural thing, the cities have very different and not particularly compatible personalities. Anecdotally in I've never known anyone choose to leave Seattle for Dallas, and Amazon is going to have to convince hundreds if not thousands to do just that.
• frugalmail 9y ago
  Los Angeles would probably service it best with Silicon Beach, great airport connections, great diversity
• WalterBright 9y ago
  Interesting that they're all far from Seattle.
• jpeeler 9y ago
  Anyone else think Amazon released a list of twenty cities to create a substantially higher buzz factor, rather than a much shorter list would?
• bearcobra 9y ago
  I feel like Columbus is going to be a strong contender based on Amazon's plans to use CVG as their hub for Amazon Air and wanting to have some proximity to that.
• Madmallard 9y ago
  Thank god my city is not on this list. Amazon will kill the culture where they go and raise cost of living.
• swerling 9y ago
  From wsj.com: "...some site-selection experts to speculate Mr. Bezos may choose a location where an influx of workers could help promote political change..." Playing with that notion. Premise: 50k tech workers would have more impact on US politics if: 1) added to U.S. cities; 2) added to cities in states with smaller populations. (Debatable premise(s), but just go with it). Below is trimmed down version of the original list of 20 with that in mind, sorted by lowest population. Cities in states where 50k would be < 0.40% of the population were cut (eg. 50k in florida would only be 0.25%). Place: 50k/State Pop (as %) ------------------------------------------ Denver: 1.00% Nashville: 0.77% Northern Virginia: 0.63% Atlanta: 0.50% Raleigh: 0.50% Columbus: 0.45% (50k would be about 7.35% of Washington DC, which I edited out, but put back in after seeing a reply to this post) (list of cities and quote above from https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-narrows-choices-for-second-headquarters-to-20-1516284607 https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-narrows-choices-for-seco...)
  • maxerickson 9y ago
    Electorally DC is less relevant to national politics than any house district (I was replying as you trimmed DC from your list). Which would be the next unit to analyze, as the statewide population doesn't impact house elections all that much.
    • swerling 9y ago
      Sorry about that. Put it back in the post under the list.
      • maxerickson 9y ago
        I wasn't bothered about it, your comment was new still, adding that was the laziest way of making the sentence still make sense.
• daveroberts 9y ago
  > William Whyte‘s rule: Virtually all corporate relocations involve a move to a location which is closer to the CEO’s home than the old location. Of course, it's hard to pick any location farther than Seattle from DC.
• bayfunnyguy 9y ago
  I'm just glad the Bay Area isn't on that list.
• kbos87 9y ago
  Please Amazon, stay away from Boston. We don’t need or want you here.
• deleted 9y ago
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• dingo_bat 9y ago
  This shows how unsuitable most American cities are for opening a large high-tech office. Ideally, Amazon should be searching for a city according to their existing tax laws. Exceptions should not be needed. In fact, if a city gives breaks to Amazon, they should amend their laws so that the same deal is available to every citizen.
• cuhaos 9y ago
  Bombardier is selling 152 hectare Aircraft manufacturing facility [1] in Toronto with a brand new transit station adjacent to the property. Amazon could build quite the campus on that much land. [1] http://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/bombardier-puts-toronto-aerospace-facility-in-downsview-up-for-sale http://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/bombardie...
• perseusprime11 9y ago
  I dont see the list of 20 HQ2 candidates. Does anyone know?