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Tesla Semi
- oent32ntoerc 9y agoWTF? It's just a countdown and a place to enter an email. Why would I want to give my email to Tesla without having any idea what this is about?
- gpm 9y agoWhat it's about isn't exactly secret. Tesla has built an electric semi (truck). This is them unveiling it... in 15 minutes. Presumably the email is to get a notification... Edit: Turns out you actually have to enter a email... thankfully it doesn't verify anything.
- tyingq 9y agoSupposedly with a 300 mile range versus ~1400 miles for a typical semi truck. I'm sure there are niche uses, but it isn't any sort of enormous breakthrough. Edit: Product page says 300/500 range, so some option I guess: https://www.tesla.com/semi/?new https://www.tesla.com/semi/?new
- alexdumitru 9y agoAre you sure about that range? It seems really really bad.
- tyingq 9y agoGot it from here: https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/16/16657580/tesla-live-stream-semi-truck-event-start-time-2017 https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/16/16657580/tesla-live-stre... No idea what their source is though.
- LyndsySimon 9y agoShouldn't be an issue - not all trucks are long haul, lots of trucks do pickup & delivery and never leave the city they're in.
- tyingq 9y agoThat seems reasonable for a box truck or similar. I'm skeptical about a semi though. I'm sure there are some use cases, just not convinced it's a significant percentage. It also rules out consecutive/night shifts with a second driver. Edit: Product page says 300 miles standard, but a 500 mile option: https://www.tesla.com/semi/?new https://www.tesla.com/semi/?new
- zardo 9y agoA truck is a tractor without a fifth-wheel, and some weight distribution differences. They aren't really completely different products. Regional haul tractors are decent market, but much smaller than long haul. Utility and refuse better play to the strengths of electric vehicles, but I suppose garbage trucks aren't sexy enough for Tesla.
- awalton 9y ago> It also rules out consecutive/night shifts with a second driver. One of the things we're learning about electrical vehicles is that they do lead to a culture change in the way people operate them. Trucker culture currently... blows. They often eat bad food, subsist on caffeine and often other stimulants, work excruciatingly long hours, and often have or cause accidents due to those long hours. They're away from home and their families for weeks of a month. They sit in unergonomic conditions and often sleep in cramped quarters aboard their trucks. Truck drivers in India are often seen as very low class people because of this kind of living situation. One of the biggest cultural changes happening in truck driving in India are companies switching to relaying cargo - a driver may only go 100-300 miles from home, dropping off or switching their trailer for one heading back the opposite direction, and hauling back home for the night, where the next person goes the next distance, and so on. That allows the driver to have a somewhat normal home life outside of trucking. And as it happens, relay trucking is perfect for an electrically powered system, as it forces truckers to adopt the saner living situation by having to recharge after a run. So, not only healthier, it's safer for everyone on the road and better for the environment.
- runesoerensen 9y ago"It can transform into a robot, fight aliens and make one hell of a latte" https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/930875739397791744 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/930875739397791744
- karmapolic 9y agois this a video game? paranoid elon.
- Jtsummers 9y agoThey're unveiling a semi(truck). I agree about the sign-up, I'd rather not (and won't). But it's quite clear what is being revealed.
- jaggederest 9y agoThe form is not checked, you can enter any arbitrary nonsense and it will let you through. I recommend using an @example.com address which won't be routed.
- kartD 9y agoI prefer to put elon@tesla.com. Hopefully it'll incentivize them to stop this crap
- maxander 9y agoI predict that when the Semi Unveil happens, they’ll only unveil half of the actual vehicle.
- karmapolic 9y agoand produce 1/2/2/2/2 of the promised count in a given quarter.
- daguava 9y agoThe page source seems to include all prices, and links to at least one pdf with details on semi reservation.
- daguava 9y ago"formattedDeposit" : "$1,000", "hamsterDeposit" : "$5,000", "hamsterFullDeposit": "$50,000", "hamsterTotal1" : "$200,000", "hamsterTotal2" : "$250,000", Is the listed US prices
- alexdumitru 9y agoWeird. This is what I'm getting: "formattedDeposit" : "$1,500", "hamsterDeposit" : "$7,000", "hamsterFullDeposit": "$50,000", "hamsterTotal1" : "$261,000", "hamsterTotal2" : "$326,000",
- daguava 9y agolooks like that's for en_AU, or Australia.
- alexdumitru 9y agoYep, you're right :)
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- tyingq 9y agoCurious what "hamster" means in this context.
- dwaltrip 9y agoCodename for venomous bats?!
- alexdumitru 9y agoI'm really curious if it comes with big differences compared to modern trucks (except for being all-electric). I also wonder why they try to push multiple models and niches when they can't even build enough Model 3s as they had expected.
- mrep 9y agoThey have always known that the first few months of production were going to be "production hell" for the model 3. While the model 3 production has been worse than they hoped for (elon musk always underestimates timelines so if you know how his companies normally operate, it's normal) but a 3 month delay for a massive hardware engineering project is not end of the world.
- alexdumitru 9y agoIt seems like it will require a $5000 deposit (with a $50,000 "full deposit") and the truck will cost between $200,000 and $250,000, according to the page source.
- jordache 9y agowow.. why would that be in the JS? synchronized onscreen graphics?
- jordache 9y agodown vote without a strong opinion why it would be in the source code? weak
- pythonaut_16 9y agoWell shoot, if they can deliver full self driving capabilities, can I just buy one of these to live in instead of a house, cruising the freeways endlessly?
- psergeant 9y agoHuh, that’s pretty interesting. I guess if it’s smooth enough, doesn’t even need to spend all night cruising, can just get you to a campsite an hour out of town.
- bluthru 9y agoTop of the line Winnebagos are $500k. You might be on to something: https://winnebagoind.com/products/class-a-diesel/2017/grand-tour/overview https://winnebagoind.com/products/class-a-diesel/2017/grand-... Someone pair up with a tiny house company or a prefab design/build architecture company and start making some housing trailers for Tesla Semis.
- Smushman 9y agoKickstarter!
- 9y ago
- tsomctl 9y agoUnlike their cars, if they want to be successful they will need to release factory service manuals and sell parts to repair them. It's not going to be acceptable to send it to some far away service center to be repaired, at least for small outfits that heavily use all their equipment. When a critical piece of equipment is down, the mechanic is going to be working through the night hacking it together, possibly waiting on parts that are being overnighted. Diesel mechanics tend to be ridiculously intelligent and very resourceful.
- ktta 9y agoI mean, with Semi's isn't a big thing going to be about self driving, therefore not needing such experienced drivers? I'm not saying have a kid on there, but what angle do they have if not for self-driving? Poor range, unrepairability?
- giarc 9y agoThe comment you are replying to is about repair, not about the drivers. Did you maybe mean to reply to a different comment?
- ktta 9y ago>Diesel mechanics tend to be ridiculously intelligent and very resourceful. I was just saying about maybe the driver being in the picture isn't something Tesla is going for. A prime argument Tesla has was about eventually eliminating the need for so many drivers. "If not that, then what else?" was what I wanted to say. EDIT: They seem to have a range of 500 miles. Which is 1/3 the range of normal diesel semi's.
- qntty 9y agoA mechanic isn't a driver
- RoboTeddy 9y ago> Diesel mechanics tend to be ridiculously intelligent and very resourceful Cooool! Can we have a story about this?
- andrewksl 9y agoThe site is showing in Chinese for me. It really irks me when sites don't respect the browser's language. Surely this is a solved problem?
- psergeant 9y agoThis is 1,000% an unsolved problem, with an extra helping of fuck you Google and Facebook. I browser without cookies and generally from Asian VPNs, and as far as I can tell, nobody is remotely respecting the browser’s language. Google have also recently started showing English language search results in Thailand with archaic Thai-language dates, which is also insane.
- Geojim 9y agoLooks like a re-run of Knight Rider...
- tim-- 9y agoThe poor guys are self-DDoS'ing themselves. They keep requesting https://livestream.tesla.com/haveReservationsStarted https://livestream.tesla.com/haveReservationsStarted every 30 seconds. Most of the requests are failing with 502 HTTP errors.
- acchow 9y agoWhy are they hosting their own streaming service instead of using YouTube?
- azhenley 9y agoElon plans to go to Mars, surely he can handle video streaming...
- aphextron 9y agoIt's Drupal...
- xiphias 9y agoThat's the only thing that never works when the first stage is landing on the ship
- mandeepj 9y agoThese are two very different things
- username223 9y agoYes. One requires attention to a huge number of details, to be certain that many systems work together flawlessly. The other, you can just reload if it screws up.
- sangnoir 9y agoI don't think you can reload a rocket ;)
- kenhwang 9y agoGetting a 502 response. Also Tesla should probably update nginx since v1.10.2 is at EOL with an outstanding CVE.
- mds 9y agoReally happy not to be the Tesla DevOps group right now.
- nodesocket 9y agoI bet they outsource these live event streams.
- MoBattah 9y agoUSTREAM
- coding123 9y agoSince I can't see anything except a spinning wheel on the button and "Event in progress" here are my questions for others: What is the payload (tongue) capacity? What is the tow (pull) capacity? Is there any mention of being able to pull a fifth wheel?
- nodesocket 9y agoYikes. NGINX throwing 502 errors. No bueno from a company with a market cap of 52 billion. Plus they seem to be running over 10 minutes late.
- Xcelerate 9y agoThe video is livestreaming for me, but it's stuck on "Standby for the Tesla semi unveil". Anyone else seeing this?
- stochastic_monk 9y agoI've had this techno on repeat for about fifteen minutes now.
- RoboTeddy 9y agoYep same here. Don't reload -- I tried opening the stream in a second window, and couldn't get in at all (stuck on submitting the "watch event" form)
- austenallred 9y agoI love Tesla, but there’s something poetic about even the livestream being delayed by 10 minutes
- mandeepj 9y agoTheir events are always delayed
- jwilliams 9y agoEr. So is this actually on? I'm getting hold music that feels straight out of Knight Rider.
- MoBattah 9y agoI'm liking the music. Can anyone identify it? Would love to use this during work.
- jwilliams 9y agoShazam giving me zip, sadly.
- Daneel_ 9y agoI wonder if it'll come round on SpaceX FM? http://www.spacexfm.com/ http://www.spacexfm.com/ They have a lot of custom audio for bits and pieces like this. It's a neat little loop though, and I want it.
- namuol 9y agoShazam/Soundhound aren't giving me anything. Given it's short loop I'd guess it's either a royalty-free piece they purchased or it was commissioned. That said, if you like the style, give Ronald Jenkees a try: https://ronaldjenkees.bandcamp.com/ https://ronaldjenkees.bandcamp.com/
- skwog 9y agoShazam says: Set Free (Kris McTwain Remix Edit) by The Project 7
- gridscomputing 9y agostill playing the "standby" slide at 2012 PST. i assume this to mean the event was scheduled to begin at 1900 PST?
- gpm 9y agoI believe it was meant to launch at 2000 PST, that's when it was counting down to.
- mrep 9y agoyoutube stream for those getting errors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFN4BfbqlbA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFN4BfbqlbA
- cameronhowe 9y ago<nevermind>
- azhenley 9y agoClicking the play button just takes me to the (down) Tesla page.
- cameronhowe 9y agoyeah, my bad, I guess it's not a shortcut
- hateful 9y agoThis is only a semi-reveal. Maybe the stream will work after they do the complete reveal?
- karmapolic 9y agowhen is it starting? waiting for 30 minutes now. just like there cars. everything is delayed.
- jordache 9y agoHow are they doing this without triggering a browser prompt to allow my location to be sent by browser? The result for me was very accurate. Why wouldn't all the ecommerce sites use this method? I keep denying their prompts to access my location otherwise. https://location.teslamotors.com/geoip/v1.0.3/city/ https://location.teslamotors.com/geoip/v1.0.3/city/
- alexdumitru 9y agoThey probably use an IP database, like MaxMind.
- tim-- 9y agoThat just looks like Maxmind's GeoIP. https://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/geoip2/whats-new-in-geoip2/ https://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/geoip2/whats-new-in-geoip2/
- voltagex_ 9y agoYour ISP sold your location.
- riantogo 9y agoProbably the same technology all the singles in your area are using to target you.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- chrismorgan 9y agoThis live stream consistently causes the first crash I’ve noticed in ages: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1418059 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1418059. Yes, when you use Firefox Nightly as your browser it does just occasionally cause trouble. But mostly it’s just awesome.
- asimpletune 9y agoCan we talk about that music?
- chickenbane 9y agoCan't get anything from tesla.com, but this livestream works! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvJV1AqRd8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvJV1AqRd8g
- Gustomaximus 9y agoAsking for an email to watch? For something like this? Are they planning to spam people after to try and sell product? Some marketing manager is being a bit old company on this one.
- alexdumitru 9y agoIt's got a 500 mile range, which is pretty decent, compared to the rumored 300 mile range.
- tyingq 9y agoIt shows both on the product page. 300 standard, the 500 is an extra cost option: https://www.tesla.com/semi/?new https://www.tesla.com/semi/?new
- runesoerensen 9y agoProduct page up now: https://www.tesla.com/semi/?new https://www.tesla.com/semi/?new
- sdenton4 9y agoNice! Fun to imagine this with bog standard random shipping container in the back... Or will everything have to switch to shiny silver tesla shipping containers?
- karmapolic 9y agoit just crashed. elon will be pissed
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- untilHellbanned 9y agoJack of all trades master of none. What is Musk doing? This guy is all over the map.
- bobsil1 9y agoMethodically going after sources of anthropogenic climate change
- soheil 9y agoworking youtube stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFN4BfbqlbA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFN4BfbqlbA
- austenallred 9y agoCan someone with more experience in the field talk about the pricing of the Tesla semi relative to other semis? Musk said it was cheaper to operate from day one, is that not amortizing purchase price into each mile? Seems a little too good to be true.
- karlshea 9y agoPlus surprise supercar announcement?
- un_montagnard 9y agoNew car as well!
- jjcm 9y agoDetails for those that couldn't watch the live stream: -500 mile range on a full charge. On empty 30 min of charging will get you 400 miles. -Lower drag coefficient than a bugatti veyron -They're claiming cost per mile is less than rail for shipping goods. -2019 availability -Lane centering + other features (jack knife prevention) -1,000,000 mile guarantee ---------------- Also they surprised announced a new roadster: -New plaid mode (beyond ludicrous) 0-60 in 1.9s. -620 mile range
- namuol 9y ago> They're claiming cost per mile is less than rail for shipping goods. Note: This only applies to "Convoy mode" where 3 or more vehicles draft off each other.
- gpm 9y agoAlso not clear to me if they assumed they could get away with only 1 driver in that mode...
- greglindahl 9y agoThat is the point of convoy mode, elsewise it would cost about the same as 3 trucks minus a little drafting.
- taneq 9y agoEven if each truck is manned, the increased safety from having rear trucks tied in with the front truck might reduce insurance premiums enough to make it viable. Especially if you can give the front truck a "pilot and co-pilot" setup (or good enough AI to simulate that with human pilot and AI co-pilot).
- greglindahl 9y agoI don't think insurance is nearly expensive enough for that scenario.
- shrewduser 9y agomodel S, 3, X, then the D, now a semi... what's elon trying to tell us.
- tyingq 9y agoThe live stream is moving on to the roadster now. Says 1/4 mile is 8.9 seconds, which is just nuts for a car you can buy off the lot. I'm guessing insurance might be high on that car.
- perilunar 9y agohttps://www.tesla.com/roadster/ https://www.tesla.com/roadster/
- gnarcoregrizz 9y ago1.9s 0-60. 250mph+ top speed. holy*!
- mrep 9y agosomeone has already updated the fastest cars with the roadster blowing out the competition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_cars_by_acceleration#By_0.E2.80.93100.C2.A0km.2Fh_time_or_0.E2.80.9360_mph_.280.E2.80.9397.C2.A0km.2Fh.29_.283.0_seconds_or_less.29.5Bi.5D_.5Bii.5D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_car... Edit: someone else removed it
- grondilu 9y agoI've just checked. 0-60 in 1.9s is only 0.3s slower than F1 record, and it seems to be below the typical one. "Formula One race cars have been recorded to reach 0-60 as fast as 1.6 seconds, however the typical range for modern day F1 cars is between 2.1 to 2.7 seconds." https://www.zeroto60times.com/formula-one-f1-0-60-times/ https://www.zeroto60times.com/formula-one-f1-0-60-times/
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- aeleos 9y agoWow not just a semi truck but a new super car? I always wondered what they could do if there weren't trying to make the cars affordable to most of the population, I guess this is it. 620 mile range is disgustingly insane, I wonder how they were able to pull it off. I can't imagine cramming more batteries would help weight and speed, maybe it uses some kind of different battery technology to get that kind of power storage.
- petre 9y agoTesla isn't really that affordable. It's more like the iPhone of electric cars: they're trying to make the best electric car everybody wants. Renault/Nissan are the ones trying to make it affordable. I read the Zoe is a best seller, although in rather too low volumes compared to ICE cars.
- bkeroack 9y agoWhen you have hundreds of thousands of customers with paid reservations waiting for Model 3s, why on Earth would you spend resources launching another product line? It’s madness.
- notatoad 9y agoBecause the "make a new product" teams and the "fix the battery manufacturing process" teams are mostly different teams. Engineers are not entirely fungible.
- bkeroack 9y agoIt's not just battery manufacturing, it's everything manufacturing. It's clear that Musk (therefore Tesla) is addicted to the rush of developing and releasing new products but are loathe to dedicate time towards the boring, iterative process of manufacturing optimization. To the point of farming out as much manufacturing as possible to third parties (Panasonic, China). It's clear they want to be a design shop in the vein of an Apple, as opposed to an industrial manufacturer like GM/Ford/GE. I would not be surprised to see them offshore manufacturing more and more in the future (see their recent China deal).
- mastax 9y agoBecause you can use the deposits to keep the lights on until you start getting model 3s out the door.
- nwmcsween 9y agoOk as a mechanic a few million questions: * What happens when a wheel seal goes? Do I have to remove all that ridiculous plastic on #2,3 axels?? * What happens when a tire blows? Is it going to destroy all that plastic and take out a few more tires in the process? * Why all the glass? I've spend entire days replacing windshields for a 12 or so truck shop which generally come in two (drivers and passengers), the Tesla semi would require a crane and expensive replacements. * Why is there no bumper or frame attachment points? Bumpers save the truck from damage, no one wants to buy $xxxxx front end, lights, etc when a deer in the bushes jumps into the middle of the road. Honestly from my point of view it seems Tesla tried to apply personal EV to a semi. Did they do any research from tractor shops or mechanics? There is a HUGE reason tractor/trailers are easy to service.
- RoboTeddy 9y agoRe: Glass: Elon Musk demonstrated that the glass is armored (it's unclear, but that might mean it just won't break under normal trucking conditions)
- greglindahl 9y agoHe showed a video of it in action. Note that Tesla is already pretty good at glass due to their huge glass windshield-roofs on the X and 3, and the solar roof.
- colordrops 9y agoBecause likely in a few years (less than 5 maybe?) these things will be driving themselves and if they get non-operational damage they'll just drive themselves to the nearest tesla maintenance center to get repaired.
- nwmcsween 9y agoThen it's dead out of the gate, almost every trucking company in existence does in house repairs due to cost.
- thecompilr 9y agoWhat I would really like to see is a smaller version of the truck, and a collaboration with U-Haul. Now that has market value.
- colek42 9y agoHe mentions that the mega chargers will all be solar powered. I don't know how this will be possible as the user base grows. The amount of energy needed for even a small fleet will be huge.
- petre 9y agoSo a charging station will need what, 10 hectares of land for the solar? Either that or 10 kW of grid interactive solar for marketing purposes, while absorbing the bulk of the electricity from the grid.
- mkempe 9y agoIn the year to 2017-Aug, total US solar generation was 72.1 TWh, amounting to 1.80% of total US electricity (predicted to reach 5% by 2022; in 2016 US solar capacity almost doubled from the year before). Tesla semi consumption: < 2 kWh/mi One charge: 500 miles => < 1 MWh There are about 2 million semi trucks in the US (tractor trailers). Assume that each semi fully charges once a day, 300 days a year. The conversion of all of the country's semis to Tesla vehicles powered with solar generation requires under 600 TWh a year, eight times current US solar level; still only 15% of current total US electricity generation. Likely within 10 years, or sooner.
- rand77763 9y agoThere’s a lot of surface area on top of a trailer, just saying.
- kmonsen 9y agoIt will be stationary similar to supercharger
- aerovistae 9y agoWhat? He meant you could put solar panels on top of a trailer.
- 9y ago
- dchuk 9y agoI'm a product manager at a telematics company. I've talked to a lot of folks in the long haul trucking space, from drivers to back office folks to service managers. I'll be surprised if this truck catches on. The trucking industry has a huge urge to do everything themselves, all the big guys have full service garages in their many yards across the country. This truck seems essentially unserviceable by anyone other than Tesla, which will be a showstopper for many of the big guys at least for a while. I will say that I'm impressed by their charging numbers if they can hit them though. Fuel is a huge concern for carriers, they reroute to save a cent on the gallon constantly. Getting enough super chargers in place will be key for these things. Also, as a side thought: they could have had a much more impactful reveal by having one of the big carrier's trailers hitched to that thing. Makes me wonder how much they even went and talked to their potential customers, especially drivers, who are very...particular...about their machines.
- ehnto 9y agoI wouldn't be surprised if there is a lobbying battle that ensues after these types of vehicles become available. With transport and shipping being such large targets in regards to emissions, banning or phasing out fossil fuels will make electric semis inevitable. I guess the question then would be how quickly the current manufacturers can supply an offering. Manufacturers with existing business relationships and greater domain knowledge would be in a much better market position than Tesla. Being first may not help them here. Tesla has to design and develop an entire truck, existing manufacturers just have to develop the drivetrain and plonk it in established product lines with the kinks of semi transport already ironed out.
- hobofan 9y ago> I wouldn't be surprised if there is a lobbying battle that ensues after these types of vehicles become available. With transport and shipping being such large targets in regards to emissions, banning or phasing out fossil fuels will make electric semis inevitable. In Europe maybe, but the USA are still their main market, and the way things are going right now, regulations probably won't develop in their favor in the important timeframe.
- 9y ago
- austenallred 9y agoThe new Tesla Roadster "Founders Edition" costs $250k, paid up-front, and only 1,000 are made. In other words Tesla just put $250 million in the bank by rubbing rich peoples' egos.
- taneq 9y agoAnd making a really really nice limited-edition car, apparently.
- austenallred 9y agoOf course, but they effectively get three years at zero interest to make good on that.
- taneq 9y agoKickstarter for the 1%.
- rich-w-big-ego 9y agoYou can't create value by just rubbing my ego, that's ridiculous.
- jonknee 9y agoFun fact: $250m will cover ~16 days of their current free cash flow losses.
- tzm 9y agoI want to buy a Tesla Semi and convert it to a land yacht.
- bra-ket 9y agoyuck, what a soulless piece of crap
- abtinf 9y agoIs a center seating position common for truck drivers? It looks amazing, but it is different enough from my normal consumer driving experience as to make the entire product a non-starter if it were in a consumer car. I've developed decades of training and muscle memory sitting on the left side of the car. I wonder if there will be a measurable impact on accident rates.
- paulsutter 9y agoMclaren is a consumer car with a center seat: https://www.google.com/search?q=mclaren+center+seat&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=mclaren+center+seat&tbm=isch
- tribaal 9y agoI doubt accident rates will be impacted that much. When you fly to a country that drives on the other side of the road from you and then rent a car, you are sitting on the other side of the car entirely. It takes a couple of hours at worse to get used to it for a manual transmission, automatics are even easier.
- XorNot 9y agoI live in Australia. It took about 2 days to get totally comfortable driving on the opposite side when I visited the US. I don't think it'll matter that much.
- jabretti 9y ago
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- ksec 9y agoI wonder how does Frozen Container works with this? I would be a huge drain to battery.
- beagleman 9y agoAre those normally run off of the prime mover's engine? I'd never even thought about that.
- josephagoss 9y agoEvery refrigerated container I've seen has its own cooling unit and does not use the trucks power.
- rkangel 9y agoI've always wondered about this. Do they have their own fuel tank and engine to run the compressor for refrigeration?
- PuffinBlue 9y agoYes. And they have electrical hook up point for times when they are stationary. If you think it through, the time a refridgerated container spends actually connected to the truck is not all that big. It will spend more time in a port or on a ship, or even stationary at the departure point or destination. All of the reefers I've seen have electrical hookups to power them when on ship/land and they have their own diesel powered generators to power them whilst attached to a truck. There a a couple main reasons they have the diesel powered generator whilst attached to the truck: 1. Efficiency of the generator (truck companies don't want to spend more on fuel) 2. The truck is often stopped with the engine off (rest periods etc) So in the short term attaching a refridgerated container to a Tesla semi wouldn't need and change in operation. In the longer term I guess it's possible that these containers will replace generators with battery pack to remove that emmission source, but they're likely to still be built into the container for the same reason outline above.
- tlrobinson 9y agoHow does the mileage and recharge time compare to a traditional semi-truck? And are there enough charging stations along trucking routes?
- joelthelion 9y agoI suppose it would be quite easy to equip a few of the most important routes. Also I suspect that this will also be used for the last, urban part of the trip.
- ZeroGravitas 9y agoIn the presentation they suggest they are targetting customers who can get from A-B in one charge, and then charge while they are unloading/reloading the truck. Those customers actually save time on fueling.
- loceng 9y agoOtherwise he states 400 miles charge in 30 minutes. So with assumed breaks every 5-6 hours for food and bathroom, and with apparently legal requirements for drivers to take breaks - it seems like it won't be an issue (so long as there are charging stations at enough locations).
- Voyage_wanderer 9y agoIn US a solo driver can drive 11 hours before mandatory 10 hours break. Which, depending on route and traffic, puts you in 500-600 miles/day. Rules around the world are about the same. There are not enough simple parking spots around. So taking up on charging station problem is a bigger task than the truck itself.
- Shivetya 9y agomileage, how well will it be in hilly country? the run down 75 from Cincinnati, that whole route to Atlanta or nearby is one nightmare of hills till you get past Knoxville. are their range calculations going to hold up, most truckers don't have the luxury of running across the plains or the equivalent all day. throw in they run in all weather so how much will those range numbers drop?
- micheljansen 9y ago"The quickest acceleration—from zero to 60 mph in 20 seconds, fully loaded." sound of cargo falling over :P But serious question: how important is acceleration for trucks?
- Voyage_wanderer 9y agoMerging into freeways is always a problem and a hazard to everyone involved. Quick acceleration makes highway safer. More pulling power also means less slow trucks on grades and less jams around them. It is of course irrelevant for the bright future where are no human drivers.
- rqs 9y agoWow, I hope they put a description like this onto their web page. Because when I saw that word "acceleration", the first thing up in my head was a buffed bald man doing a car race with that truck. LOL. Oh, I watch too many movies.
- cm2187 9y agoAlso doesn't that torque helps when going uphill?
- larkeith 9y agoIt definitely sounds like it, considering they advertise the speed on a grade.
- JabavuAdams 9y agoFor quantifying discrete objects, you should use "fewer", not "less". "Less" is used for aggregates, continuous media, and numeric values. So, "fewer people", but "less water".
- Voyage_wanderer 9y agoThanks for the clarification. However I’m a truck driver, I passed my English requirements for CDl. :)
- vincnetas 9y agoEU will like these huge windshields, because of the pedestrian safety. "Contrary to passenger cars, there are currently no direct vision requirements for trucks. Direct vision – what you can see with your own eyes – has a number of benefits compared to indirect vision (mirrors and camera’s). To measure direct vision the Commission should use a standardised methodology." Very nice summary on truck blindspots : https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2016_07_Trucks_direct_vision_briefing_FINAL_0.pdf https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publicat...
- Diederich 9y agoHuge windshields are good for pedestrian safety, enhanced autopilot with every truck sold is fantastic for pedestrian safety.
- alkonaut 9y agoWhat's the axle pressure compared to traditional semis? Semis are going to be less and less popular in the EU when more countries add fees for distance driven which is proportional to wear, which is twice for a semi compared to a non-semi.
- wayanon 9y agoI wonder if the strong glass is the same material used in the solar roof tiles.
- anonu 9y agoThe fact that diesel semis have a 1000+ mile range was conspicuously left out of the unveil. I had to do a bit of research. I suppose it's all marketing in the end and Elon cherry picked the facts that would suit him. Yes, I understand 80% of trips are under 250 miles. But is an almost 50% reduction in range that easily shrugged off?
- Tepix 9y agoSince you're legally required to take a 30 minute break every couple of hours, does it really matter?
- pasta 9y agoEven if they sell 5 of them it will be a success I think. Tesla will gather a lot of (electric) truck data no one has. And at the time countries decide to ban polluting trucks Tesla will release an upgraded model.
- SigmundA 9y agoAnyone else find it odd they don't talk about the battery? 500 miles of range at 2kwh a mile is a 1000kwh battery which is 10 model S batteries. Model S battery weighs 1,200 lbs lets assume they somehow improved on that by 20-30% so this is a 10,000 lb battery. Not sure how much the motors weigh, the Tesla motor and inverter are about 350lbs so lets say another 1000lbs. A Diesel engine, transmission and fuel for 500 miles is about 5,000 lbs. So I guess they made up 6,000 lbs in lightwieght materials? Or does it have less carry capacity since the trucks can't weigh more than 80k total? Then there is the cost of the battery. Tesla is currently saying thier cost are below $190/kwh. At $180 that battery is $180,000 dollars cost! They must be counting on the Gigafactory getting it down to $100 kwh, still $100k cost just for the battery. The battery cost is as much as a new Semi's price. The Megacharger is 400 miles in 30 minutes, that would be a 1.6 megawatt charger. They have to be built out across the country. I am pretty impressed, I honestly didn't think they would do a megawatt battery. 500 miles is what you need minimum for "long haul" or a solid days driving even though most diesel semis have 1000 mile+ ranges. Just not sure how the economics work out, but I hope it does.
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- bognition 9y agoI think your price estimate for the battery isn't too far off. If you scoll down on the page they estimate annual fuel savings to be $200,000. They then mention a two year payback period. This seems to imply a sticker price of around $400K.
- SigmundA 9y agoI am trying to figure out how they get 2 year payback. "On a 100-mile route, the Tesla Semi will average $1.26 per mile when operating costs are factored in to $1.51 for diesel trucks." That 25 cents a mile savings, average trucker does 45,000 miles a year, 100,000 on the top end for long haul. Even at 100k a year that's an 8 year payback right?
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- MistahKoala 9y agoSo we've had the Model 'S', 'E' (or '3') and 'X', and now the 'Semi'?
- yohann305 9y agothey should have used this line: "it's a beauty and a beast"
- awjr 9y agoI've been making the point that fuel duty and car taxes (if your country has them) need to be removed and road pricing brought in. Price per litre of diesel in the USA is about $0.75 vs $1.64 in the UK. Given that Tesla stated that the truck would pay for itself within 2 years ($200,000 in diesel savings), we're talking 11 months in the UK. The implication is that eHGVs will radically reduce the tax revenue of countries that have focused on fuel duty creating a significant problem for road maintenance. Dynamic road pricing, based not only on time of day, but also vehicle type, is probably the only way forward.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago>Dynamic road pricing, based not only on time of day, but also vehicle type, is probably the only way forward. Wouldn't want to let poor people with inflexible work hours go un-screwed... /s I don't know why everyone sees reduced tax revenue as a problems. Less money to spend means more critical evaluation of how it gets spent.
- berbec 9y agoLike what happened after every American "big tax cut". Reduction in income instantly exposed massive waste in government, and the tax cuts were found to be deficit-neutral! /s
- philjohn 9y agoOne downside to the centre driving position - what about if you want to take a companion with you on the road?
- bryanlarsen 9y agoThere's a jump seat behind and to the right of the driver. Large agricultural vehicles have always had a central driving position.
- mncolinlee 9y agoIt's bizarre that the Semi has way less attention than the Roadster on HN. The Roadster is a $250k car for people with money to burn. It doesn't seem to drastically change the equation from a Rimac Concept One with six-year newer battery and motor tech and savings from volume and automation. The Roadster is the shiny thing that sells less sexy vehicles. The Semi has the potential to change an entire industry if executed right. They don't need to be perfect if the cost savings are real and reliability is high. We'll see if they get practical details correct and whether production models arrive within 2-3 years of target-- a common Tesla worry. But I feel this has more margin potential than the Model 3 at this stage in Tesla's development.
- rvshchwl 9y agoIt may possibly be because the Roadster was a surprise reveal, while the Semi was expected to arrive this year anyways. Regardless, I am really looking forward to seeing the Semi's on Highways, although I believe that a main roadblock to it will be the lack of Tesla charging stations across the country. Semi trucks drive throughout the US on all major highways, and they have to coordinate their routes according to where the Weighing stations are in each state. Having to add super-charging stations to their routes will certainly complicate their routes, so it should be a bigger priority for Tesla to address those first.
- EADGBE 9y agoSex(y) sells.
- Sohcahtoa82 9y ago> $250k Correction: It is a $200k car. The $250k is for a "Founder's Series" which is really just one of the first 1,000 cars out of the factory. Still a car for people with money to burn, though. I was hoping to be able to get one, but the price is slightly over my budget. I might be settling with a Nissan GT-R.
- vanderZwan 9y agoI was wondering if the best early markets to target might be in the European Union. First of all, at least on the PR-side of things we seem to be a bit more into sustainability; more companies might want to get these just to get a good public reputation. But aside from that it might make more economic sense too. So I tried a rough estimation. TL;DR: I made a very, very rough estimation which suggests that if Tesla's original cost per mile number is accurate, it could be very successful in a handful of European countries, for companies that do not transport cargo internationally. Making worst-case assumptions about the average costs at each step, switching to the Tesla Semi would be a net increase in costs of 19¢/mile on average. Making slightly-more-lenient assumptions about electricity costs, switching would give a 28¢/mile savings on average (compared to their claimed 25¢/mile in the USA). The best-case scenario for Tesla would be a trucking company in Norway that only delivers inside Norway, because then that number improves to somewhere between 59¢/mile to 80¢/mile. Also, they need to give more context for the $200k+ fuel savings claim, because it seems a bit suspicious: they claim a savings of 25¢/mile, but fuel cost is only a fraction of that. So you would need to travel like a million miles before you reach that amount, which would take over two to three decades at the average distance covered by a truck each year. I'm not an economist, and a lot of ridiculous assumptions were made in these calculation, so don't take it too seriously. Still reading? Down the rabbit hole we go... In the reveal video Tesla claims a cost of $1.51/mile for diesel vs $1.26/mile for their semi[0], so a 25¢/mile savings (I'm going to ignore the convoy savings for now). This assumes fuel costs of $2.50/gallon and 7¢/kwH. Oh, BTW: the estimated average miles per year is 45k in the US[1]. So at 25¢/mile that would be $11.25k saved per truck in the US on average - which presumably includes costs saved on repairs. Again: where does that $200k+ fuel savings number come from? Now, in Europe gas prices are (on average) much higher than the USA. What would be the price per mile here? Well, to estimate that that we must also look at how the price of electricity compares between Europe and the USA. For diesel, I looked at globalpetrolprices.com[1][2]. It does not provide an average for all of the EU (nor prices per US state, for that matter). Truckers will often plan in such a way that they fill up in the countries on their route with lower gas prices, so let's err on the side of caution and make it $5/mile. To compare the relative difference I'll take the current average US price, which is $2.83/mile. So gas is 1.8x more expensive at the moment, on average. Now, we do not know the MPG Tesla assumed for diesel trucks. Lets go with the worst-case comparison again, which would be 8 MPG. Increasing $2.83/gallon to $5.00/gallon, that mean be an increase of 27.12¢/mile. Making the improbably assumption that all other costs relevant to this calculation are equal, we can just add that to Tesla's number of $1.51/mile, and end up with $1.78/mile for diesel in Europe. For electricity I looked up the official governmental statistics provided for electricity USA and European Union[3][4]. Taking the provided national averages, and converting the Euro to US dollars at the current rate of 1.00 to 1.18, I get these numbers: EU: 15.51¢/kWh domestic, 8.01¢/kWh industrial (second half 2016) USA: 12.90¢/kWh residential, 9.89¢/kWh transportation, 7.23¢/kWh industrial (August 2016 - more recent statistics exist but I figure we should compare the same time period) Note that these numbers make Tesla's claim seem a bit fishy, since they assumed 7¢/kWh for the USA, which you don't even get with industrial scale costs. Europe does not distinguish transportation from other sectors yet, but the worst-case scenario would be using their domestic prices compared to the USA's transportation prices. That would be about 1.5x more expensive, still not as much as diesel. (I added industrial electricity prices because perhaps a large transportation company with a fleet of electric vehicles and their own charging stations would use so much electricity that they would need industrial energy contracts. At that point the comparison obviously gets a whole lot rosier) We don't know how much of a factor fuel price is in the price per mile calculation of the Tesla Semi. If we take their claim of lower maintenance costs at face value, it should be a bigger portion of the total. Now, the even-worse-that-worst case scenario would be assuming it's all of it, since that would give the biggest adjustment, and that the relative difference is equal to the domestic price difference: $1.26/mile * (15.51¢/kWh / 9.89¢/kWh) = $1.97/mile, for a net increase of 19¢/mile. If we take the relative difference between domestic prices as our starting point, it becomes better again: $1.26/mile * (15.51¢/kWh / 12.90¢/kWh) = $1.51/mile, for a net savings of 28¢/mile. So, using the worst possible adjustment for diesel and electricity prices, worst MPG, and worse-than-worse price-per-mile adjustment for Tesla, the economic benefits of switching to these will still be bigger in Europe. Now lets look at the country with (probably) the best numbers for Tesla: Norway. Despite being an oil-exporting country, it has the highest price per gallon (except Iceland), and lower price per kWh than the USA: Diesel: $6.99/gallon, electricity: 11.30¢/kWh domestic, 6.28¢/kWh industrial Keeping everything else worst-case-scenario for Tesla as before: (6.99-2.83 $/gallon) / 8 MPG = 0.52¢/mile, for a total of $2.03/mile for diesel $1.26 * 11.30 / 9.89 = $1.44/mile for Tesla, or 59¢/mile saved. If we assume domestic-to-domestic, the ratio becomes 11.30/12.90. The worst case scenario here would be assuming equal percentage of price per mile as diesel: $2.5/gallon / 8 MPG = 31.25¢/mile, or 31.25/1.51 = 20.7% of total price per mile (($1.26 * 79.3) + ($1.26 * 20.7) * 11.30 / 12.90) / 100 = $1.23/mile, for a total of 80¢/mile saved. ... for a total of 80¢/mile saved. Of course, a proper cost calculation would be much more complicated, since it would depend on the routes your transport company takes, where you are located, how big the company is, etc. With so many countries I can only assume it requires more red tape to get their semi through all the required tests in Europe (even with EU-wide standards simplifying things there), but it would probably worth it for Tesla to target specific countries with higher fuel costs and lower electricity costs. Tangent: in the process of looking this up, I discovered that fueleconomy.gov does not have a section for semi-trucks[5]. I wonder if that was blocked by the automotive industry on purpose. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONx_dgr55I&t=14m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONx_dgr55I&t=14m [1] https://hdstruckdrivinginstitute.com/semi-trucks-numbers/ https://hdstruckdrivinginstitute.com/semi-trucks-numbers/ [1] http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/diesel_prices/North-America/ http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/diesel_prices/North-Americ... [2] http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/diesel_prices/Europe/ http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/diesel_prices/Europe/ [3] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... [4] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_price_statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/..., http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/product?code=nrg_pc_204&language=en&mode=view http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/product?code=nrg_pc_204&languag..., http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/product?code=nrg_pc_205&language=en&mode=view http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/product?code=nrg_pc_205&languag... [5] http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/search.shtml?words=semi http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/search.shtml?words=semi
- kraig911 9y agoIt's cute. No trucking company is going to add it to it's fleet though... after thinking about SigmundA's research and coming from a family of Truckers - I can't see how this will help/work. It's just a cool thing to see and boost company image. Trucker's don't want to drive a lone. Trucker's usually have people along for a ride or a sleeper cab. Sitting in the middle would suck. I sincerely doubt this thing can haul loads of more than 12.5tons.
- flurdy 9y ago:/ The centre driving location, not sure if that is a terrible idea for pedestrian and bicycle safety. Or the opposite as closer to the other side. Guess time will tell if a lot gets squashed against fences like bikers often do in London.
- seveneightn9ne 9y agoTesla's navigation system will definitely let you know if there's something close to your side.
- slouch 9y agoThe driver is probably 8 feet closer to the front of the vehicle, though.
- rvshchwl 9y agoAlso don't like that there aren't passenger seats, or at least they don't show in the interior pictures.
- JeffL 9y agoOn a YouTube stream we were watching, I saw at least one fold down passenger seat in the truck cabin. Not sure how comfortable it would be, though.
- rhinoceraptor 9y agoCyclists are on the opposite side of the driver in traditional seating, I would think this makes it safer for cyclists.
- theWatcher37 9y agoLondon already has a terrible problem with extremely narrow (and often jagged) roads. As an American many of the streets were hell to navigate, and I understood why tiny cars are valued there
- orsenthil 9y agoI like Elon Musk's presentation. It is nothing like Steve Jobs or any other CEO presentation. It seems like an enthusiast telling other the features and how cool it is. Also enjoyed the part that he told the audience to break the barriers and come and see it.
- maelito 9y agoIs the next release a bus ?
- rvshchwl 9y agoDoubt it. Busses are most often used by local governments than by businesses, and most cities are less likely to spend that much money on a more expensive form of transportation.
- kerbalspacepro 9y agoMicrobuses
- Voyage_wanderer 9y agoThere is also issue of highway funds. Tax on fuel goes into roads maintanence. There is no current mechanism in US to tax electric vehicles. I wonder if Tesla culculated non-yet-existing taxes into operational casts.
- gallerdude 9y agoI'll be really curious about how this pans out. It seems like they vastly over-engineered it, but maybe I'm wrong.
- Robotbeat 9y agoThey need a huge battery to make long-haul feasible (both from a range standpoint and a charging speed standpoint) and to make the battery last longer even on short trips. And you have less resistive losses if you use multiple motors (or, say, one large motor) than one motor (or a small motor) for the same load due to: Power loss from resistance = I^2*R (resistance increases, but current decreases proportionally for the same load, so your power loss reduces). So if you're going for efficiency and long-haul battery life, you already need a big battery and lots of electric motor power. You can leverage that for really strong regenerative braking, which translates to extremely long brake life and further efficiency (as well as being quieter). This also means you can go faster up AND down hills (speed down hills for trucks is limited by brake heating... if you're doing regenerative braking, very little heat is generated). Also, by using multiple model 3 motors, they can get access to economies of scale that a small-run truck usually can't, which means you can afford to spend more on putting more motor in there. So you end up with a truck that can do 0-60 in 20s with full load due mostly to other engineering considerations.
- balozi 9y agoProbably not a popular opinion but this Tesla business feels like what I imagine being cult or Ponzi scheme would feel like.
- bonestamp2 9y agoI hope Tesla builds the next gen USPS delivery trucks to replace all of those loud little trucks that sound like a space shuttle launch between each mailbox.
- 0xfeba 9y agoAw, you don't like the LLV[1]? 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV A hybrid would well-suit the replacement of these. Something like the Chevy Volt that relies more on electricity for heavy stop/start type driving. It would also address your concerns. The engine could just run when needed to charge, and not be a constant oscillation through the RPM range through the neighborhood.
- ttepasse 9y agoGermany's biggest postal service, the Deutsche Post (ex state monopolist) searched for an electric delivery van and couldn't find one. So they bought a startup and developed their own: * https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-24/even-germany-s-post-office-is-building-an-electric-car https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-24/even-germ... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter
- splouk 9y agoDoes anyone with some technical knowledge of batteries and solar panels know whether it would be possible to put solar panels on top of the trailer and charge the battery that way?
- rainbowmverse 9y agoHere's a discussion I found on the subject: https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/comments/4h7gd1/solar_panels_on_18_wheelers_or_large_trucks/ https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/comments/4h7gd1/solar_panels_...
- smoyer 9y agoThis would have been a great product to announce on April Fools day - then continuing to announce it as real afterwards.