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The new £1 Coin

• talha123 10y ago
  britcoin
• himlion 10y ago
  Is counterfeiting coins very lucrative?
  • moomin 10y ago
    Hard to know, but what I do know is it tends to be done in bulk. You need someone with a job that handles a lot of cash e.g. a sandwich shop. Then they are given 1,000 coins to mix in with the float. What I don't know is the going rate for 1,000 fakes.
    • _delirium 10y ago
      Bulk shipments of as many as 500,000 have been intercepted in the past, although that was further up the distribution chain than someone trying to actually pass them off in retail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-33650317 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-33650317
  • bigbugbag 10y ago
    Lucrative for sure as one can tell from the number of fake in circulation. Very lucrative maybe not, I doubt one can become a billionaire unless maybe if the manufacturer if he was the only one making the fakes.
  • chippy 10y ago
    From my other comment above: We know 1 in 30 £1 coins are counterfeit. Take the amount of £1 coins in circulation. Sum the value. Divide by 30. Equals the market in counterfeit coins. From http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-figures http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-... £1 are 1,671.328 £m / 30 = 55.71 £m The market in counterfeit coins is therefore over 55 million pounds. This is, however the cumulative, total value of the market and not per year.
    • Already__Taken 10y ago
      I was curious how much the penny costs to mint as to put your number into context. Only to find the Royal Mint won't release per coin detail since they mint other coins not for the UK it's classed as a commercial secret. Which means for all the effort put into our currency we might actually be turning a profit on the capability. ref: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/costs_per_unit_of_minting_each_b#comment-54330 https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/costs_per_unit_of_min...
    • refurb 10y ago
      That doesn't really answer the question though. Is all the effort to create a fake 1 GBP coin worth it? Unless you have access to the right equipment, I can't imagine it is based on the effort to make each coin. If you can make 8x1 GBP coins a hour, then you clear a cool 64 GBP each day. Better than nothing (and tax free!), but there are a lot of jobs that pay better than that.
      • falsedan 10y ago
        Well yeah, you'd buy a stamping press and mint 10k/day. I fear HN underestimates the amount of work people will do to avoid getting a boring (legal) job.
  • logfromblammo 10y ago
    Yes. That's why the government doesn't want amateurs cutting in on their business.~ Some people--though not many--survive that can remember when newly-minted coins still had silver in them. Then governments all over the world got greedy and debased their coinage, upping the seigniorage to obscene levels to turn their mints into profit centers instead of cost centers. So whenever I see governments complaining about counterfeit currency, I feel that they are hoist on their own petard. They learned it by watching you. I am honestly impressed that a system run almost entirely on public confidence can get away with so much chronic, endemic chicanery. I was really hoping that India's little experiment in destroying its economy by removing larger-denomination cash would have resulted in a tiny bit of blood in the streets, pour encourager les autres. Without pushback, the trend will continue. So the world really, really needs a currency system that no one can effectively manipulate. Bitcoin gave me hope, but so far no cryptocurrency is anywhere near ready for universal adoption.
• oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
  As a UK citizen, it stuns me that one-in-thirty pound coins is a fake because a) i can't imagine how it's possibly worth it b) out of the thousands of pound coins i must have handled, I've never spotted a fake - they must be very good. Still, the new coin certainly looks nice!
  • tspiteri 10y ago
    I've had machines refuse one pound coins, which then looked slightly off on closer inspection when comparing to other coins.
  • gmac 10y ago
    I'm pretty sure I've seen some — rather crude detailing (especially around the edges), sometimes a slightly funny colour, and consistently rejected by vending machines.
    • dx034 10y ago
      But there are also a lot of £1 coins in circulation that are more than a decade old. I sometimes get coin bags from banks and even from those, some are rejected by vending machines and look crude.
      • gmac 10y ago
        I wonder whether banks test every £1 coin that passes through their hands. Either way, being rejected by vending machines is probably neither a sufficient nor necessary condition for being a fake, but it's almost certainly correlated.
  • pja 10y ago
    Nah, the fakes are fairly obvious once you know what to look for. It doesn’t really matter so long as they circulate like other currency though. Money is weird.
    • nicky0 10y ago
• anothercomment 10y ago
  For a moment I thought/hoped the UK would introduce an official cryptocurrency...
  • mattcoles 10y ago
    As if. Our goverment is currently on the warpath against evil cryptography.
  • tonyonodi 10y ago
    Yesterday our home secretary said that WhatsApp's end-to-end encryption is "completely unacceptable". So we're a long way away from that.
    • bigbugbag 10y ago
      Hasn't UK been fighting encryption since at least the 90's ?
      • ollie87 10y ago
        Aye. We should just go back to using the Royal Mail.
        • UweSchmidt 10y ago
          Wouldn't be surprised if the surveillance infrastructure for physical mail started deteriorating already and a beautiful handcrafted, scented letter with calligraphy could fly under the radar.
      • Noughmad 10y ago
        To be honest, they have been fighting encryption since the 30's.
        • arethuza 10y ago
          Public key encryption was actually first thought of at GCHQ - but was you would expect they kept it secret: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography#Classified_discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography#Classi...
• d--b 10y ago
  Just curious, has anyone any insight into what that "hidden high security feature is"?
  • chrisseaton 10y ago
    I think it's some kind of radio signal transceiver, because I saw a video where they talk about detecting it at high speed from a small distance as coins pass through a system.
    • TorKlingberg 10y ago
      That seems expensive, and easy to find by cutting one apart. I suspect it's something about the metal composition, detected with spectroscopy.
      • JorgeGT 10y ago
        It could be a passive radio device, maybe just a loop of ferromagnetic material that gives a particularly noticeable electromagnetic response when excited at a certain radiofrequency.
        • VLM 10y ago
          A 1 uCi radioactive source is exempt in the USA yet quite easily detectable. I suspect sooner or later someone is going to try radioactive currency. I'm so old that when I went to uni we did a neutron activation of silver experiment in physics class because the half life of whatever isotope of silver was about a minute, so after an hour of lab you could put the coin back in your pocket. I don't know if they'd let college kids play with either a solid silver quarter from a few decades ago (probably worth a couple bucks today) OR a low level neutron source today. I could see picking some very obscure isotope of some obscure metal and dissolving it into the metal of the coin and if your xray metal analysis machine that scrapyards have (a kilobuck ish cost in a hand held device) detects the proper amount of iridium or whatever or a simple neutron activation followed by gamma spectrometer shows the right isotope in there... Aside from spontaneous emissions and activation reactions, there are some weird cross sections out there. Whatever's irresistable to thermal neutrons thats used in reactors, probably a cadmium alloy, could be the core of a coin, and then blasting boring thermal neutrons that are semi-transparent to fakes but the cadmium core coins would look pitch black from eating all the neutrons. Or play the opposite game and make the coins out of pure neutron-transparent zirconium and only the neutron transparent coins are legit.
• smcl 10y ago
  "The pound won’t be round for much longer" is a pretty awful tagline, I'm not sure they realised what this sounds like...
  • chrismorgan 10y ago
    I read it with the meaning “the pound won’t be in use for long” at first which seemed rather incongruous. I was wondering whether there was something I had missed about happenings with respect to brexit (I’m Australian, never been to the UK). It took me a while to interpret it as “the shape of the pound is changing from a circle to a dodecahedron”.
    • tfgg 10y ago
      If it meant that, I'd expect it to be: "The pound won’t be around for much longer" so the original sentence is sort of a pun. Maybe "around" is a local use of English.
      • chrismorgan 10y ago
        Just like “until” is commonly shortened “till”, “around” is commonly shortened as “round”.
        • callumlocke 10y ago
          I know this doesn't affect your point, but it's interesting: "till" is older than "until". http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=until http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=until
        • philh 10y ago
          Thanks to the "you see what you expect to see" effect, it took me until someone pointed out the pun before I realized the word was "round" and not "around".
    • tfm 10y ago
      Fortunately the domain name is rather less ambiguous and primed me for the weak pun. I'm ... glad(?) that the wordplay survived the marketeering sessions and civil service vetting. BTW: dodecahedron is the solid object, dodecagon is the 12-sided polygon. D&D style dice as currency would be pretty awesome but it might make it difficult to resolve dilemmas using pocket change.
• blue1 10y ago
  > Hidden high security feature – a high security feature is built into the coin to protect it from counterfeiting in the future. "security through obscurity" as a feature?
  • kgabis 10y ago
    It would be quite amusing if this feature didn't actually exist and it was only an attempt to confuse potential counterfeiters.
    • lb1lf 10y ago
      -It would definitely be amusing, but given the current state of affairs - basically, the public is ignorant and vending machines are used to weed out the fakes - I don't think your average counterfeiter would care. After all, your fakes don't need to be perfect; they just need to be good enough to enter the system without you getting caught every time. (Which leads me to wonder - how do counterfeiters insert their fake coins in the monetary system? Where can you spend a lot of coin without arousing suspicion?) -Coins sold at a discount to people who, perfectly aware they are fakes, use them for small purchases? -Perhaps more likely - the customer is your friendly neighbourhood cigarette shop, which then mixes them in the change they give? -Are some vending machines so bad at detecting fakes that you can use those (preferably ones with no security camera watching, which can be a challenge in the UK nowadays) to launder your fakes? -Other? Off to google I go. I really wonder how one can make a viable business model from getting fake coins into circulation. I just looked over the £1 coins in my desk drawer (22!) - I found two dodgies. Perhaps I should bring them to the UK next time and ask in a bank - they may be just worn...
      • dx034 10y ago
        Don't vending machines only check weight, size and if it's magnetic? Should be easier to fake for a vending machine than for customers then.
        • desas 10y ago
• doktrin 10y ago
  > "Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit." That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market in counterfeit coins? The profit margins just seem so modest relative to counterfeit bills.
  • creshal 10y ago
    They have a relatively high value and are easily faked (currently no bimetal design like the £2 coin or 1/2 Euro coins) – and nobody looks for counterfeit coins.
  • bigbugbag 10y ago
    Due to the lower value the risk is also much lower, apart from vending machines who actually checks coins for fake and refuse them ? For a merchant the cost of annoying a potentially unaware customer is more than the value of the coin that he will probably simply give back to another customer as change. Try using an actual real 500€ bill anywhere else than Germany.
    • lordnacho 10y ago
      > Try using an actual real 500€ bill anywhere else than Germany. I paid for a 17K CHF car with 17 notes once. The Swiss trust their money completely.
  • mootothemax 10y ago
    > That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market in counterfeit coins? The profit margins just seem so modest relative to counterfeit bills. If no one's checking for counterfeit coins, and the users themselves don't know they exist, it sounds like a pretty awesome opportunity for the counterfeiters. Just take a look at the number of comments here saying the same thing as you - from a counterfeiter's perspective, it sounds pretty ideal.
    • TillE 10y ago
      But, what do you do with your counterfeit coins? You've invested all this money and effort in minting equipment, but it would look extremely weird to spend more than like 20 at once. Unless they can fool machines, it seems very inefficient.
• sklivvz1971 10y ago
  Funnily, the new "most secure" pound will be introduced one day before a pretty big event, Mrs. May's Article 50 invocation, which widely predicted to devalue the pound significantly. You might buy new pounds as "secure" coins, but you'll probably some percentage of their value the next day...
  • tveita 10y ago
    From all the big ForEx investors who will only learn about Brexit when they read in the papers that it has happened?
    • vidarh 10y ago
      There is a strong emotional effect at play, so it's hard to say what will happen. I know someone currently buying a house, and the question of what will happen when Article 50 is invoked has been a persistent theme. E.g. in London, thousands of banking jobs may hang in the balance, with at least one bank having made it very clear internally that once Article 50 is invoked they will start planning which jobs to move - something that for that bank alone will start to shift massive amounts in salaries out of London (hundreds of millions at least) On one hand finally getting clarity might be good news in that some people who have held back might spend more once the uncertainty of the immediate reaction is out of the way. On the other hand for a lot of people it makes things definite and will cause more cautious spending patterns, and there's still plenty of other uncertainty. It also starts the clock, which will make people speculate about the timing. I haven't the faintest clue how that will make traders respond. What I do know is that because I don't have the faintest clue how it will make people respond, I'm acting accordingly cautiously, and have cut my spending considerably since the referendum, and I know many others in the same situation, and indeed the UK has a whole has seen consumer debt levels drop substantially. All this to say that it is foolish to assume that it boils down to whether or not the actual event itself is expected or not.
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• DonaldFisk 10y ago
  It reminds me of the old threepenny (prounounced "thrupny") bit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threepence_%28British_coin%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threepence_%28British_coin%29
  • arthurfm 10y ago
    The Royal Mint are actually selling a commemorative set that includes the new £1 along with a old Threepence coin. http://www.royalmint.com/shop/h/hisoneth http://www.royalmint.com/shop/h/hisoneth
    • loader 10y ago
      Because of the increase in traffic to this page I was actually put into a queue before I could view the page, how very British.
  • robert_tweed 10y ago
    Interestingly, taking inflation into account, the value of 3 pence in 1949 is exactly equivalent to £1 in 2017. Unfortunately it doesn't work as well for the commemorative coin dated 1937, which is worth closer to £2.
• comice 10y ago
  The website for the most secure coin in the world only gets a B rating from ssllabs: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.thenewpoundcoin.com https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.thenewpou...
  • imron 10y ago
    It's ok, the coin will only connect to websites over an ethernet connection, and will only load a particular site if it can validate the full certificate chain.
    • kregasaurusrex 10y ago
      A sufficiently crafted coin would be an interesting attack vector against a vending machine, for example. I'm interested to see how counterfeiters would be able to use a passive/active security device within the coin for potential gain.
  • xiphias 10y ago
    I just checked bitcoin.org as a comparision (A+): https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=bitcoin.org https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=bitcoin.org
    • ForHackernews 10y ago
      If only bitcoin exchanges were actually secure...
    • corobo 10y ago
      Big surprise the downloads-provided primarily online currency has better online security than the single page landing site of a primarily physical currency.
  • corney91 10y ago
    It looks like the only problem is they've missed off the GoDaddy intermediate certificate (which presumably most users will have cached from other sites). Funny how all the more complicated things like ciphers are considered well-configured but something simple like this is missed, but I guess it's an easy mistake to make (if you're not checking ssllabs) depending on how the certificates have been supplied by the vendor.
• legulere 10y ago
  Another possible recent security feature is a polymer ring: http://news.coinupdate.com/germany-introduces-next-generation-polymer-ring-circulation-coin-for-2016/ http://news.coinupdate.com/germany-introduces-next-generatio...
  • jo909 10y ago
    It's super cool, but this coin is not used in general circulation and is more or less only a collectors item.
    • nicky0 10y ago
      That seems weird. Why would they spend 10 years of research to produce a one-off collectors item?
      • masklinn 10y ago
        To demonstrate feasibility and estimate costs. The tech could then eventually be rolled out but since Germany is part of the EU for EU-wide legal tender all mints need to switch: "standard" euro coins have a common design and reverse, and a national obverse (with some restrictions).
        • TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
          Nitpick, but you mean the Eurozone specifically.
          • masklinn 10y ago
            Guilty as charged.
      • jo909 10y ago
        My guess it's because the production cost is too high, and counterfeit euro coins aren't a big enough problem to warrant them. Also having a germany-only euro coin in wide circulation would be a bit backwards and impractical, so they would have to implement them in all 19 euro countries.
• bigbugbag 10y ago
  How is this claim substantiated ? I fail to see any difference from the coins that are widely available around the world.
• mirekrusin 10y ago
  After two pints it won't be distinguishable from € coin, many people have both in pockets, it's already hard for < 1 €/£ :(
  • throwanem 10y ago
    Two pints of what? Tequila? What in God's name do you have on tap over there, that a mere two pints gets you so blind you can't tell coins apart?
    • mirekrusin 10y ago
      Poor sight from programming probably.
• im3w1l 10y ago
  From my understanding, all money is created as debt. Counterfeits would be an exception. What is the impact of this?
  • branchless 10y ago
    Only 3% of "money" is cash.
  • dx034 10y ago
    If you do it on a large enough scale you'd get inflation as you have more money supply for the same amount of goods so that the money loses value. This would then lead the central bank to raise rates to counteract inflation. This in turn is bad for the economy (more expensive to take out a loan leads to less investment) so you could get a recession. I doubt that you'd be able to inject enough counterfeit money for that, though. However, most central banks do that on a much larger scale at the moment to get that inflation and it doesn't really work (the Bank of England has stopped that though).
    • Already__Taken 10y ago
      This sounds like one of those things that's not a problem but becomes unfixable when it is a problem. Like you say it's the scale required.
• rbanffy 10y ago
  What happens if they have to remove the thistle and the shamrock after Brexit?
  • Chris2048 10y ago
    Why Brexit? Do you mean Scottish Independence?
    • rbanffy 10y ago
      If they decide to become independent now, it'll be because of Brexit. Same goes for Northern Ireland (which will take some time).
      • Chris2048 10y ago
        Not so sure about NI. Do you think the economy could survive without UK membership? Don't you think NI-independence would be seen as an attempt at re-uniting Ireland, and hence bring back the troubles?
    • Daviey 10y ago
      Some would say those two are linked.
      • Chris2048 10y ago
        If that was the intent, why not just mention SI directly?
  • Fifer82 10y ago
    It isn't really a problem because Scotland will keep the pound, and very little will change in that regard.
    • DaiPlusPlus 10y ago
      Scotland could certainly use the pound (like how Cuba and Zimbabwe use USD), but England (and Wales) wouldn't like it and might move to make it difficult for them if they so wish. If Scotland votes to leave it will be to remain in the EU debate after Indyref1 led me to conclude that Scotland would have to petition the EU to join as a new member instead of inheriting the UK's membership, and the EU requires new members to adopt the Euro... so if Indyref2 passes then they'll have the Euro.
• nailer 10y ago
  So is the 'hidden high security feature' NFC? Something similar?
• DINKDINK 10y ago
  Many commenters in this thread are speculating on how counterfeiters are inserting the, apparently large volume of, counterfeit coins. Maybe one source is actually unrepudible /merchants/. In dispensing change to customers, market participants it would seem be less likely to scrutinize the coinage.
  • mootothemax 10y ago
    > Many commenters in this thread are speculating on how counterfeiters are inserting the, apparently large volume of, counterfeit coins I've written elsewhere that I reckon other criminal channels might be in use. If you offer your street level drug dealers a choice of 1,000 pounds in "real" money or 2,000 in "fake," (or a mixture of them both) that'd probably do the job. I'm working off the assumption that there's the exact same problem with distributing drugs. Like, what would you do with a kilo or two of cocaine just lying around? Get many smaller dealers to handle the problem for you instead and make their money along the way. If you also have some fake money lying around, I can't see any reason why you wound't try to combine the two.
    • dmurray 10y ago
      This doesn't work because "your street level drug dealers" pay you, not the other way around. They get paid by keeping a portion of the proceeds, or of the drugs. It works if you need to employ petty criminals for jobs other than sales, though.
• enthdegree 10y ago
  Is it a curve of constant width like the 20p and 50p? If its sides are straight it cannot be. Also from wiki: > The new design is intended to make counterfeiting more difficult, via an undisclosed hidden security feature, called 'iSIS' (Integrated Secure Identification Systems). [1] Huh. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_pound_(British_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_pound_(British_coin)
  • _archon_ 10y ago
    The coin does appear to be a Reuleaux solid, which was a relief to me. British coins are some of the most common Reuleaux solids in the world. The sides are not straight; they are curved outwards. The curve is defined by an arc of a circle whose center is the opposite corner on the coin. It's a neat class of shapes! My dive into them came while researching the rotary Wankel engine (rotors are roughly Reuleaux triangles)
    • chiph 10y ago
      But with an even number of sides (12 in the new coin), can that work?
      • _archon_ 10y ago
        It can not. Reuleaux solids must have an odd number of vertices, or they indeed don't work. It would appear that I didn't have my brain fully on this morning. To apply the principle of Reuleaux geometry to a regular shape with an even number of vertices, you'd make arcs tangent to the point in question, extending in a curve that increases the coin's diameter as the arc gets longer. The arc would come to an end in a point midway to the next point, where it would intersect with that point's arc. You'd have a star-shaped solid where all geometry external to the inscribed circle are tapered triangles. Kind of neat, but it would be tough to put through a vending machine.
      • deleted 10y ago
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    • grkvlt 10y ago
• zeristor 10y ago
  Coins? How much longer will we be using coins for?
  • iand 10y ago
    Hopefully a long time, unless you are happy with your spending being mediated and controlled by a third party.
• koolba 10y ago
  > Hidden high security feature – a high security feature is built into the coin to protect it from counterfeiting in the future. I bet there's an RFID in each coin that uniquely identifies each one. If true, it'd also let them (or a thief!) identify the total value of the coins jingling in your pocket. > Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit. That seems incredibly high! Anyone have comparable stats for US dollar bills or 1 Euro coins? > The legal tender status of the round £1 coin will be withdrawn on 15th October 2017. From this date shops will no longer accept these coins, but you will still be able to take them to your bank. We would encourage you to use your coins or return them to your bank before 15th October. Six-months is a pretty short window for something like this. What prevents a shop from accepting the coins after Oct 15th and then they take it to the bank? Also, how does the 1/30 fraud number impact the returns of the current pound notes?
  • askvictor 10y ago
    How would the RF get past the metal casing?
    • koolba 10y ago
      Could be a ring on the outside between the two layers.
  • falsedan 10y ago
    > What prevents a shop from accepting the coins after Oct 15th and then they take it to the bank? The law, which only allows individuals to exchange the old coins after that date. Yes, shopkeepers could change their bills for old pounds and then deposit them in person to their current accounts at the local branch, but if I'm a shopkeeper then I probably have better things to do with my time.
• noja 10y ago
  dot com? Why?
  • robin_reala 10y ago
    The Royal Mint is a state-owned enterprise and not a government department. For a start, they produce currency for other countries directly, which is not something the government would want to do.
    • noja 10y ago
      This coin is being produced for the UK.
      • robin_reala 10y ago
        Yes, but they also produced coins and notes for 39 other countries in 2015-16: http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Files/AnnualReports/ar_2015_2016.pdf http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Files/AnnualReports/ar_2015...
        • noja 10y ago
          The website is not for the Royal Mint, which of course needs a dot com address, this website is for the new UK pound coin. Why does the new UK pound coin, with a UK audience, not use a UK domain?
          • robin_reala 10y ago
            Oh, oops, hadn’t realised what you meant. Presumably seeing as it’s not a company though a .info would be more appropriate though?
            • noja 10y ago
              .info would also be non-uk. There is the .uk domain in the uk, so www.newpoundcoin.uk would work.
• wonderous 10y ago
  For any interested in the related costs: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/19/cost-new-pound-coin-business https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/19/cost-new-pound... Seems like there are £45m worth of counterfeit coins in circulation, but the switch may cost over £100 million. ____ EDIT: The percent of fake coins in circulation appears to be in flux, which makes me wonder what methods they use to estimate the fakes in circulation, if they use controls like injecting known fakes into the count to see if they are spotted, if the sample is truly random, the maths is correct, etc.: 1% 2004 [1] 3.03% May 2014 [2] 2.55% May 2015 [2] Of note is that the Royal Mint states in the 2016 annual report that the last survey for fakes was in May 2015, but the report was issued in July 2016, which means at least as of that date they failed to do the annual survey; or at least publish the results.[3] [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10707540/How-can-I-spot-a-fake-1-coin.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10707540/... [2] http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-pound-coins http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-p... [3] http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Files/AnnualReports/ar_2015_2016.pdf http://www.royalmint.com/~/media/Files/AnnualReports/ar_2015...
  • andy_ppp 10y ago
    So there was no point in doing it? This seems super weird for a financial institution that should be looking at hard data; maybe they did some analysis about the increasing ease of forgery?
    • robjan 10y ago
      The main reason for doing it is that they don't want the public to lose faith in the "value" of the pound, which will eventually happen if forgeries become more abundant.
    • nraynaud 10y ago
      There is some kind of psychological cost too, since the money is only valued as much as people want to value it. Too much fakes might damage the brand more than the face value of the fake coins.
• tehabe 10y ago
  It looks like a nicer version of the 1 euro coin. I like that the coin isn't round but 12-sided, which will certainly help visually impaired people use the coin. I wonder if they will introduce a new 6-sided 50p coin.
  • anentropic 10y ago
    the 50p and 20p coins already have polygonal shapes, following this principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curve_of_constant_width https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curve_of_constant_width
  • SaltySolomon 10y ago
    Euro Coins are actually designed to be distiguishable by blind people, they have different edges and sizes. I once was at a blindness awareness workshop and it is just one of those things you usually don't think about it.
    • Symbiote 10y ago
      So are the British coins, and personally, I think they're a lot better -- the seven-sided 20p and 50p are much easier to 'feel' than the 20¢ and 50¢.
• Asooka 10y ago
  Made to look like the 1Euro coin to ease the transition to Euro currency in the future, I'm sure.
• flexie 10y ago
  Isn't it 14 sides?
  • Operyl 10y ago
    Hahahah. I guess technically it is, nice catch.
• bambax 10y ago
  Why not make the new £1 coin Euro compatible? Despite Brexit and all, it would make so much sense to share the same dimensions for the pound and the Euro. Old pound: diameter 22.5 mm, thickness 3.15 mm. New pound: diameter 22.63 - 23.43mm [1], thickness 2.8 mm. Euro: diameter 23.25 mm, thickness 2.33 mm. So close and yet so different! Why??!? Edit: Okay, I'm not sure why I saw "so much sense" in having the pound and the Euro the same size. I go to the UK often and hate having different coin sizes in my pockets, but obviously the pound and the Euro aren't the same value, so there's no real reason they should be of the same size... [1] Since the new pound isn't round but dodecagonal, the diameter isn't constant; the smallest value is the diameter of the incircle and the other value, the diameter of the circumcircle.
  • willvarfar 10y ago
    Vending machines have to detect the difference.
  • adaml_623 10y ago
    Because then vending machines would accept Euro coins as well as pound coins and you would be able to obtain goods for 60%(?) of the asking price??
    • Belphemur 10y ago
      False. The vending machine use setup of electromagnet to recognize the coin, not their size. [1] [1] http://someinterestingfacts.net/how-do-vending-machines-work/ http://someinterestingfacts.net/how-do-vending-machines-work...
    • martinclayton 10y ago
      Modern vending machines are not so easily fooled. But, the old UK 5 pence and German 1 mark coins had quite similar dimensions, and were made from the same material, so vending machines at that time were fooled by the 5p, which was worth much less than the mark. I understand that truckloads of coins were sent back to Britain as a result.
    • falsedan 10y ago
• muse900 10y ago
  What I don't get is why we need coins anymore? Can't they just make £1 pound note same to the £5 one? I am always annoyed when I got coins on me and I never pay attention to them. Why not make £1 worth more by making it a note? Why not move away from notes nowadays? Is there any specific reason to that? Is there just too much metal sitting around that they thought that would be an ok use of it?
  • morsch 10y ago
    A quick look suggests that one reason is that coins last a lot longer than paper currency.
  • pjc50 10y ago
    We used to have pound notes, and they're still technically in circulation in Scotland (although I've never seen one). According to wikipedia they were withdrawn because: "Part of the reason for this change was that notes, on average, lasted only nine months in general circulation, while coins could last forty years or more. The government also believed that the growing vending industry would benefit from the introduction of a one pound coin." Maybe the economics have changed with polymer notes. But the BoE inflation calculator tells me that the £1 notes withdrawn (in 1984 money) would be worth about £3 today. So maybe the fiver is next. Then there's the lunatics that want to abolish physical money altogether...
    • kuschku 10y ago
      > So maybe the fiver is next. Something like that is already being discussed on the continent. The memorial 5€ coin recently (which is legal tender) wasn’t just that, but it was also a test if a 5€ coin would be accepted, and doable.
      • RugnirViking 10y ago
        We do also have memorial £5 coins here in the UK although I don't know if they are a test for anything, as there have been quite a few over the years. A common gift for people as they are quite large with nice designs on
• oblio 10y ago
  I see by the design that they're already planning for Br-re-entry.
• talha123 10y ago
  Love that coin
• tyingq 10y ago
  Looks a bit like the failed US Susan B Anthony $1 coin. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/etats-unis/g1288.jpg https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/etats-unis/g1288.jpg
  • ars 10y ago
    That failed because people don't like to carry coins, they prefer bills. In the UK they don't have a 1 pound bill, forcing people to only use coins. Coins are cheaper for the government since they last much longer. So if you were a government, which would you pick: What your people want, or what's cheaper for you?
    • dragonwriter 10y ago
      Note that the people often may directly want one thing, but also want indirectly what is cheaper for government, since they also usually don't want to pay more taxes, and do want government to do things.ib other domains that are constrained if it spends more than necessary in the domain under immediate consideration. Government officials really have no other reason to care about "cheaper for government", since it's not their money anyway.
    • tyingq 10y ago
      I wasn't implying that because it failed, that the £1 Coin would fail. I mentioned "failed" so that non-US readers would know it's not popular.
• Keverw 10y ago
  That looks neat. Never seen a coin before that changes based on how you look at it. I kinda want one, even though I'm in the US.
  • cjg 10y ago
    I'll post you one if you like.
• sergior 10y ago
  Coin has WiFi and a microphone and sends data to the nearest surveillance spot if it is in range.
  • marcosdumay 10y ago
    If they weren't metallic, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put some RFID in them, or even set some secret handshake to automatically detect false coins.
    • cat199 10y ago
      There is likely an embedded known hash/serial number/other identifier in the U/V signature for exactly this.
• TheArcane 10y ago
  > a high security feature is built into the coin to protect it from counterfeiting in the future. Reminds me of the Indian Rupee 2000 'gps feature'
• itaysk 10y ago
  Watching the video - I was waiting for John Ive voice at the end saying "it's the best coin we've ever made"
• fiatjaf 10y ago
  Containing 1 pound of silver in it? No, so it's fake.
• fiatjaf 10y ago
  What is the difference between counterfeit and "original" coins? Unless they have 1 pound of silver in them they're all fake money. I think everybody should just accept and use counterfeit coins, if they look like the coins issued by the central bank.
• billpg 10y ago
  I don't like it. http://www.thesunsetlounge.co.uk/Images/PoundedPound.jpg http://www.thesunsetlounge.co.uk/Images/PoundedPound.jpg
• wonderous 10y ago
  How the "hidden high security feature"* in the new £1 coin works is covered here: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-the-authentication-in-the-new-uk-£1-coin-work https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-... * Royal Mint’s new anti-counterfeiting technology, which can be authenticated by high-speed automated detection, was called Integrated Secure Identification Systems (ISIS) - but for obvious reasons, they've stopped using that name.
  • eumoria 10y ago
    K, damn.
    • deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    • katerberg 10y ago
      Per the article, one in thirty of these coins are counterfeit.
      • kawsper 10y ago
        Just adding another source: > The Royal Mint regularly conducts surveys to estimate the level of counterfeit £1 coins in the UK. A survey undertaken in May 2015 found that the rate of counterfeit UK £1 coins in circulation at the time was 2.55%, compared to 3.03% in May 2014. http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-pound-coins http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-p...
        • Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
          This link first loaded the page, then unloaded it and put me in a queue! I was told how many people were ahead of me and an estimate on when I would get to read the page, complete with elevator music. Why would anyone even make that?
          • 10y ago
• beloch 10y ago
  Canada has an 11-sided 1 dollar coin (the loonie) and a bimetallic 2 dollar coin (the toonie). This new £1 coin is basically a mash-up of the two. Fair warning: People are going to put these things in pneumatic presses, hit them with sledge-hammers, etc. and then claim their brand new £1 coins are defective and "just fell apart". You should probably ignore these people. I'd be very surprised if the Royal Mint hadn't talked to the Canadian Mint and made sure they know how to make these things absolutely bomber.
  • mrec 10y ago
    The UK already has a bimetallic £2 coin. I don't see anything radically new here.
  • dan1234 10y ago
    The UK has been using bimetallic coins (£2 coin) since 1998. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_pounds_(British_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_pounds_(British_coin)
    • huxley 10y ago
      The bimetallic Toonie from Canada came out in 1996, but Italy beat everyone with their 500 Lire in 1982
• jyoung789 10y ago
  I wonder how many people are going to try to push out the middle the way they do to the toonie.
• berberous 10y ago
  How much lighter is the new coin? I have to say, the old £1 coin is my favorite I have ever seen in the world. It had a great heft/weight/size to it.
• gaspoweredcat 10y ago
  i like how they on longer mention the name of the technology inside it which when it was first announced was to be called "ISIS"
• ajarmst 10y ago
  I like the optimism of keeping symbols of Ireland and Scotland on the coin. Of course, those could become ironic in the not-to-distant. The leek seems safe, though.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• bhauer 10y ago
  That coin is a beauty. It looks like it would be a denomination much higher than £1. As someone who collected coins a child, I've been a tad disappointed by some of the newer designs coming out of the US Mint. Some are classy, others seem a bit goofy. But this new pound coin is very tasteful. Well done, Royal Mint!
  • cat199 10y ago
    US Mint's seeming priority is cost cutting in metals rather than counterfeit coins, since our paper money is so simple I think counterfeiters are focused on that in the lower denominations.. UK notes are much more sophisticated even for the lower denominations, so probably there is more focus is on coins..
• clamprecht 10y ago
  It's interesting that they chose .com versus .co.uk for their domain.
• Graham24 10y ago
  I'll be glad to see the back of the old Thatcher.
• miguelrochefort 10y ago
  Is my business ready? Why wouldn't it?
  • Patrick_Devine 10y ago
    Many reasons. - You have vending machines which only take the old coins - You haven't sat down with your retail employees to make certain they can identify the security features of the new coins - You don't have sorting machines which can handle the new coins so that you can have an accurate inventory of your coinage - You don't have a policy in place for removing the old coins from circulation Those are just off the top of my head.
• tomovo 10y ago
  At first I thought this was some Euro-related prank.
• ryanmarsh 10y ago
  > Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit. That's staggering.
• wtvanhest 10y ago
  They probably should have continued using the letters. The more things called ISIS the less important those letters are to any one thing, including the terrorist org.
  • shitgoose 10y ago
    Sure. NSA has plenty of resources to process and store all of them.
  • rhcom2 10y ago
    The name of the spy agency in the cartoon Archer, the International Secret Intelligence Service, also fell victim to this.
    • smcl 10y ago
      They handled that extremely well though - I can't recall the exact timing but ISIS was seemingly always on the verge of crumbling or being bought so they just sort of let it happen and the group made a seamless (if not painless) transition into ineffective drug dealers and bungling private investigators ("The Figgis Agency") Anyone stumbling across this comment and wondering WTF we're talking about - definitely check out Archer, it's pretty great
  • ajross 10y ago
    The "terrorist org" never used those letters in the first place. The acronym in Arabic is "Daesh". ISIS is an English-language acronym formed from a (bad[1]) translation of the group's name. Think about it: why would a decidedly muslim organization name itself in a foreign language after a forgotten infidel goddess? [1] Most western journalists rapidly moved off onto ISIL, which is a better translation (the name never referred to Syria the nation, but the geographical area better captured by "Levant"). Really only the right-wing sources continue to use "ISIS", presumably because it sounds more like a Bond villain's outfit.
    • ino 10y ago
      It is normal to translate acronyms. USA is EEUU in Spanish or EUA in Portuguese, for example. I'm not contradicting you, just clarifying.
• countryqt30 10y ago
  So how high are the total production costs of 1 coin?
• ChuckMcM 10y ago
  Wow: "Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit." I have about a dozen £1 coins in my informal 'collection of currency from other places' bag and it looks like 2 of them are probably counterfeit (at least by the standards of the Royal Mint) one clearly is, the date and back picture don't match, the other has fairly poor milling around it.
• peterbraden 10y ago
  Will they have to replace it as soon as the Queen dies? Seems wasteful.
• udev 10y ago
  Designed in California. /s
• sengork 10y ago
  Some of the dual metal build coins suffer from faults when they are exposed to cold environments. Once can test for this by placing the coin inside a freezer and observing one of the metals shrink to the point where it disconnects from the other part of the coin. There are much older examples of latent image technology on coins, for example Russian 10 ruble circa year 2000 (look at the middle area of the '0' character): https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/coin-rubles-russian-commemorative-edition-31451612.jpg https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/coin-rubles-russian-commemor...
• krick 10y ago
  It's really pretty. I wish euros would be designed that well.
• deavmi 10y ago
  I like it.