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Welcome, ACLU
- hvass 10y agoGreat job! I am Canadian and donated to ACLU this weekend. Fantastic decision, guys.
- minimaxir 10y agoWas this association in the works before the events of last weekend?
- matchagaucho 10y agoNope. Just riding the bandwagon.
- bduerst 10y agoDoes it make a difference? It seems more relevant now, not last week.
- wtvanhest 10y agoI remember when HN did not have a political agenda. Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups. Now its become a highly political message board
- dang 10y agoNo, it hasn't. The rule has been the same for years: most politics are off topic. Check it out: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. The difference between "most" and "all" is significant. HN can't be immune to what's going on in the outside world and we've learned from years of experience that it doesn't make sense to try. At the same time, we're not going to let politics overwhelm the site, since that would kill it. The concern about HN becoming too political or not political enough is as old as HN. There are at least as many users complaining that we're suppressing all the political stories and what not. I wrote more about this at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13516969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13516969 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13522433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13522433 if anyone's interested.
- rubidium 10y agoI wish I had the time to gather the data. Someone please do this. Make sure to normalize against total activity. I'm a hn user since at least 9.8 years ago (my first HN handle was different than current, which is 7 years old). To my impression as a relatively apolitical person, the site has become MUCH more political in the past year. I may be wrong in that though.
- pgodzin 10y agoThe issues affecting the tech community seem to have gotten a lot more political in the past year as well. Immigration issues, net neutrality, surveillance, women and diversity issues have all been particularly politicized recently.
- jacquesm 10y ago> To my impression as a relatively apolitical person, the site has become MUCH more political in the past year. I may be wrong in that though. It's an election year. Some of the policies and statements on display are extremely divisive. Divisiveness breeds discontent at all levels, discussion, intimidation, outright violence.
- marcosdumay 10y agoThe entire world became much more political in the past year. Looks like 2017 will increase it even more.
- chillacy 10y agoHN comments are available as a public dataset in Google Bigquery, so you're perhaps 30 minutes away from an answer.
- wtvanhest 10y agoI used the word 'mainly' because I understand that HN has always had some political conversation in the background. I have personally learned about immigration issues, digital privacy, etc. etc. on HN. Those are valuable things to understand, and I enjoyed reading about them. Now, it is clear that YC leadership has taken a highly liberal stand. I won't make a judgement on liberal or republican, but it feels more and more extreme. When an organization leans either direction too hard, it loses its purity. YC is becoming the liberal version of the Koche Brothers. HN is reflecting that in YC's movement. I'm sure that Sam Altman and the rest of your team feel that it is worth it, but in my opinion, overt political support by an organization feels like a losing long-term strategy. I guess we will see
- dentemple 10y agoThe travel ban disproportionally impacts the tech community, including "startups." From the hundreds of Big 4 employees who now can't return home or travel overseas, to the 110,000 answers submitted to StackOverflow from the now banned countries, this affects the industry.
- cpburns2009 10y agoI would like to know how many people in the tech community are actually impacted by this. A temporary ban on immigration from a few unstable counties is not an embargo.
- ProAm 10y agoIt really doesn't. It has a monetary agenda, which is not bad or good but they are doing things for the best interest of YC.
- jacquesm 10y ago> I remember when HN did not have a political agenda. Discussing politics is not the same as having an agenda. > Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups. I don't recall such a time and I've been here quite long. > Now its become a highly political message board This is most likely a reaction to real world developments involving a large number of HN participants. Just like HN isn't a San Francisco local affair and yet when BART has issues you can expect it to be upvoted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7774764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7774764
- maxerickson 10y agoIt's also the case that not wanting to have political discussions is itself a political agenda. It might not be a secret or pernicious agenda, but it seems people forget what agenda means.
- jacquesm 10y ago> It's also the case that not wanting to have political discussions is itself a political agenda. Yes, that's an excellent point. It amounts to a denial of service attack on informed discourse.
- wtvanhest 10y agoYes, that is true, but there are many, many channels for that type of discussion. I don't want politics to be in my face 100% of the day.
- gtaylor 10y agoBeing indifferent and taking our (US) liberties for granted have landed us in a tough spot. While it isn't ideal for YC to have to get involved, it's going to be a knock-down-drag-out to prevent as much damage as we can. This is probably going to be annoying to a subset of the users here that don't care or who support the current administration. There is no pleasing everyone. But YC is an org in the US, and will be affected by what is happening. I was very happy to see YC do their part in what will be a 4-8 year (at least) battle of attrition and will. The ACLU is one of the best advocates for the people, in a country where corporate and religious lobbying trumps most.
- stephancoral 10y agoPolitics are involved in everything. Each business decision made by a company the size and scale of YC has political ramifications. Even something 'innocuous' as funding Scribd is a political move - why? Think about copyrights, the lawyers needed to handle trademark laws and to challenge them. Or Soylent - they circumvent the FDA and do direct food testing on people, resulting in contamination outbreaks. Are these not political moves, this policy of 'disruption' i.e. grey-area skirting of existing so-called 'burdensome' regulation(s)? There are no vacuums anymore, if there ever were (which I doubt). If something is 'about' startups then it is by necessity also about the politics those companies are involved in, especially considering in the US companies are persons with certain rights of expression. Thanks to the intertwining of capitalism with our representative democracy by way of lobbying, our everyday lives are politicized. Should we suppress these notions or engage with them?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ebbv 10y agoThis is great news. The ACLU has always been important, and is even more important right now as the disregard for civil liberties continues to grow in our government (at all levels including federal, state and local.) I set up a monthly donation to the ACLU last year, and encourage everyone who can afford to do so to join in. EDIT: Clarify wording.
- sjcsjc 10y ago503 Service Temporarily Unavailable
- sjcsjc 10y agoAnd now a 500 error. Still haven't managed to read it.
- jasondrowley 10y agoI keep getting an error message when I load the page.
- Maarius 10y agoCached: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Wr9fuAQM4bcJ:https://blog.ycombinator.com/welcome-aclu/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Wr9fuA...
- lorenzhs 10y agohttp://archive.is/8Liu7 http://archive.is/8Liu7 for anyone having trouble loading the page
- savagej 10y agoI thought the "A" in ACLU stood for American.
- CydeWeys 10y agoAnd where do you think Silicon Valley is, or where YCombinator is based?
- geofft 10y agoThe future nation of California, whose independence campaign is supported by part-time YC partner and New Zealand citizen Peter Thiel.
- maxerickson 10y agoI believe they may be making an oblique reference to the ACLU acting on behalf of immigrants this past weekend. Of course, it's perfectly consistent to believe that the government of the United States of America does not sufficiently respect the civil liberties of non citizens.
- CydeWeys 10y agoHuh, what a weird point to make. If he were to actually look at the ACLU's mission, though, he'd see that there's nothing in it about only working to protect the rights of American citizens.
- mcphage 10y agoIt does. American Civil Liberties Union.
- eddieroger 10y agoIt does. What do you mean by your comment?
- savagej 10y agoPeople who have never been to America are not Americans.
- tabeth 10y agoAny word on whether or not this was planned, or is this a reaction to recent events? If the latter, then I can't help but feel that this is just politically conveninent. The alternative is worse (not giving any funding), but hey, I feel what I feel.
- CydeWeys 10y agoIt's not that it's politically convenient right now, it's that it is necessary. No need to be cynical. The executive orders that made this necessary only started happening within the last two weeks.
- ubercore 10y agoMy view would be more that it was unclear _how necessary_ this was before January. I think a lot of people, pundits and politicians included, expected a certain amount of moderation, which hasn't really happened. I'd put this move as an ounce of prevention, personally. And what's the alternative, not to do this? I don't see how that could be counterproductive.
- tabeth 10y agoThere must be a misunderstanding. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do this. I'm just hoping that Ycombinator isn't simply being reactive. Even if they are, it's better than nothing, but generally speaking, for things like this, they're done far in advance, no?
- rory096 10y agoSite's intermittent. Here's a copy: We are delighted to be funding the ACLU as a non-profit[0] in our Winter 2017 batch. The ACLU has always been important, but has a particularly important role[1] right now. We are honored to be able to help, and we will send some of our team to New York for the rest of the batch to assist. The ACLU will have full access to the Y Combinator network and community, and they will present at Demo Day in March. We are hopeful that the YC community will join us in supporting this important work. In particular, if you’re an engineer and want to spend some time helping them out, let us know.[2] We’ll keep you updated on opportunities. Also, please consider donating to the ACLU.[3] [0] http://www.ycombinator.com/nonprofits/ http://www.ycombinator.com/nonprofits/ [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/president-trumps-first-week-aclu-hands-him-first-stinging-rebuke https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/president-trumps-firs... [2] https://ycombinatorevents.wufoo.com/forms/q42uszl19i1mu6/ https://ycombinatorevents.wufoo.com/forms/q42uszl19i1mu6/ [3] https://action.aclu.org/secure/donate-to-aclu https://action.aclu.org/secure/donate-to-aclu
- Swizec 10y agoWait, news.ycombinator.com can hug of death ycombinator.com? That's insane. Also I'm happy that this is happening and did not realize such a thing was possible. Does ACLU count as an early stage startup? PS: no need to downvote, jeez, I'm just pointing out a curious observation
- rjbwork 10y agoThey* introduced non-profit funding a while ago.
- CydeWeys 10y agoI don't know exactly what this means, as the implementation details are hazy, but if this entails substantial support to the ACLU (in terms of lawyers, money, or both), then that is awesome. I donated to the ACLU yesterday and I'm encouraging everyone I know to do the same.
- sandworm101 10y agoIm taking this as a statement, that progress for traditional ycombinator startups is under threat from things the ACLU deals with. It isnt a startup, far from it, but the ACLU is someone that you want on speeddial these days.
- TorKlingberg 10y agoFor people outside the US, I believe it is perfectly fine to donate to ACLU, but do check if there is an equivalent organization in your country. For example in the UK there is Liberty (https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/ https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/). Threats to human rights are a global problem after all.
- treehau5 10y agoI don't donate to the ACLU because I believe in the civil rights for all people, outside the womb, and inside. Is there a similar organization I can donate to?
- m3rc 10y agoOh, yeah there is, and you can donate here: https://action.aclu.org/secure/donate-to-aclu https://action.aclu.org/secure/donate-to-aclu
- beat 10y agoConsider the EFF. They're more narrowly focused, and unlikely to come in conflict with your beliefs. And, with a battle over Net Neutrality being almost inevitable, they could use our help, too.
- coldpie 10y ago
- ErikVandeWater 10y agoDoes the ACLU have any new product/entrepreneurial goals for the future? Without, it would seem this is a somewhat unusual association.
- actsasbuffoon 10y agoThe new product is called "civil liberties." I signed up for their mailing list. I hope I get invited to the beta!
- spacemanmatt 10y agoI have been using mine for decades and they're truly excellent. 10/10, would recommend. I really hope they continue to kick out more good products.
- JoblessWonder 10y agoI was lucky enough to inherit some so I try and help the ACLU spread the love to others who might not.
- gepoch 10y agoI got some when I launched, but I haven't really found a use for them. Sad to see so many products sharing the fate of the Apple watch.
- RileyKyeden 10y agoMost people's civil liberties work so smoothly they don't even notice.
- joshmarlow 10y agoI think this makes sense strategically for multiple reasons: - YC would undoubtedly like to ensure there are no barriers to immigrant founded startups that they would like to invest in - ensuring that there are fewer barriers to employment by immigrants in invested startups - generally trying to build a better more open world (which is in line with the UBI initiative [0] as well as the stated interest in investigating new concepts for city design [1]) [0] - https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/31/y-combinator-announces-basic-income-pilot-experiment-in-oakland/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/31/y-combinator-announces-bas... [1] - https://www.wired.com/2016/07/y-combinators-plan-build-new-city-not-actually-crazy/ https://www.wired.com/2016/07/y-combinators-plan-build-new-c...
- emperorcezar 10y agoHow long till Peter Thiel breaks ties with y-combinator?
- w00tw00tw00t 10y agoNot soon enough.
- CydeWeys 10y agoHopefully it happens the other way around, no?
- deskamess 10y agoHopefully not... YC needs to retain the inclusiveness. It should have the ability to disagree with civility. If PT is acting in a way that hurts YC's investments then I expect YC to have a civil discussion with him.
- har777 10y agoTrue. But how much is too much ? If someone is say racist do you still not kick him out for the sake of inclusiveness ?
- diyorgasms 10y agoHistory shows that collaboration with fascists is without virtue. Fascist collaborators should not benefit from inclusiveness while trying to eliminate it.
- wnevets 10y agoIs this the first time ycombinator.com has funded a group involved in politics?
- CydeWeys 10y agoThe ACLU is involved in protecting civil liberties, not politics.
- wnevets 10y agoOne man's "protecting civil liberties" is another man's politics.
- afandian 10y agoAnd another man's "funding startups" is another man's politics.
- justin66 10y agoIn fairness, they are an advocacy group whose activities include political lobbying. No idea how accurate these figures are, but: https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000031473 https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D00003147...
- sp332 10y agoThis confuses me, but "only donations to the 501(c)(3) foundation are tax deductible, and only the 501(c)(4) group can engage in unlimited political lobbying. The two organizations share office space and employees." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union
- chimeracoder 10y agoAn organization can be simultaneously a 501(c)3 and a 501(c)4 - often this is managed by having two separate legal entities with a mutual relationship, but it's possible for the same organization to be classified both ways. Separately, a 501(c)3 is allowed to engage in lobbying - they are just subject to restrictions on how much time and money than can spend (last I checked, it's up to 10% of time and 10% of money).
- chickenfries 10y agoPeter Thiel insists that the immigration EO is does not constitute a religious ban [1], but Rudy Giuliani says this is exactly what the President asked for [2] (Also, we heard him say as much many, many times). [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2017/01/28/peter-thiel-says-immigration-order-does-not-constitute-a-religious-test/#41bb68a63795 http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2017/01/28/peter-thiel-s... [2] http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-t...
- arkitaip 10y agoThiel is sycophant and a liar and if he wasn't close friends with Sam and the others he would have been throw out of Y Combinator.
- phreeza 10y agoHonest question: are you sure you mean sycophant? He strikes me as a kind of abrasive character, not what I would associate with a sycophant.
- ihsw 10y agoIt's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration ban have been either failed states or antagonistic to the US for the past 30 years, it is quite plain to say that it makes sense for Trump's companies -- and various other companies across a wide swath of industries -- to refrain from conducting business there. To say that other Muslim-majority countries aren't on the list due to conflict of interest is to deny this simple logic. Plenty of other Muslim-majority countries have kept a lid on their populace by maintaining adequate internal security within their borders and providing valuable counter-terrorism intelligence to to the US, meanwhile the seven "countries of concern" have not.
- pinewurst 10y ago"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." - F. Scott Fitzgerald So between Peter Thiel and the ACLU, I think we have some 1st rate minds at YC.
- labster 10y agoHeh, sick burn.
- w00tw00tw00t 10y agoSigned up to help. If you are serious about helping, I urge you to do so as well.
- rexreed 10y agoDoes YC have a page of their particular positions on various political matters which guides their decisions on which non-profits to support and which ones not to? I'm genuinely interested in reading a "platform" as it were on what YC believes and is willing to support.
- ErikVandeWater 10y agoYes this is somewhat dangerous for YC. I would like to see that this was planned before November and their support was not determined by who the president turned out to be. Combined with the outspoken politics of Paul Graham1, I get the feeling people who identify as conservatives may not feel welcome at YC. 1 http://twitter.com/paulg http://twitter.com/paulg EDIT: I changed "conservatives" to "people who identify as conservatives" to clarify. Some replies below referred to the philosophical conservatism, which is somewhat different.
- JCzynski 10y agoAuthoritarians are very possibly not welcome. Non-authoritarian members of the religious right, cultural conservatives, etc. are very likely welcome. (And of course any variety of libertarian.)
- joshred 10y agoCultural conservatives are authoritarian. They argue for restricted social liberty.
- beaconstudios 10y agoI think that depends, and the issue is more complicated than you make out. To play devil's advocate, consider the conflict between freedom of association (or religious freedom) and anti-discrimination laws. You could argue that valuing either is a pro-liberty stance. The notion of liberty is kind of difficult to pin down when you're talking about interactions between free individuals.
- 10y ago
- hopeandchange 10y ago.
- CydeWeys 10y agoThey defend the KKK's rights to free speech, not their abhorrent views. Protecting freedom of speech and the press is increasingly necessary in today's world, given how vocal Trump and his staffers are about shutting down dissenting views. Also, I see that you are a new account. You should read up on the standards for discussion here on Hackernews.
- hopeandchange 10y ago.
- ppod 10y agoYou have a right to free speech, and these websites have a right to publish whatever they want. You are free to type things or to say things, there's no obligation for anyone else to host them or transmit them for you.
- eva1984 10y agoFree speech, not free from other people's disagreement. The color of your previous comment pretty much speaks for itself.
- lowmagnet 10y agoMembers of the KKK, as citizens, have civil liberties whether one likes them or not.
- mcphage 10y agoLOL at all the liberals giving money to a group that defends the constitution, how silly is that amirite?
- cloakandswagger 10y ago
- monochromatic 10y agoThe ACLU sometimes supports a worthy cause, but it's basically just a left-leaning political organization. I understand that's particularly trendy right now, and anyone who supports Trump is a pariah in Silicon Valley... but come on. Would YC be donating directly to the Democratic party if that got the same favorable tax treatment?
- vermontdevil 10y agoleft-leaning? Supporting the Constitution is left-leaning? Sign me up! And yes they don't defend the 2nd amendment because there are already two large organizations focused on that.
- justin66 10y ago> And yes they don't defend the 2nd amendment because there are already two large organizations focused on that. I think it's accurate to say that the lawyers at ACLU have a position on the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment (viewable on their website) which is not consistent with the views commonly offered by the NRA. The ACLU would only go to court to help fight a 2nd Amendment violation where they believed one existed, so that's part of the difference.
- monochromatic 10y agoIt's also not consistent with binding caselaw offered by the Supreme Court. But whatever.
- justin66 10y agoI'd argue that today neither organization has a view of the 2nd consistent with current case law, which is interesting. They're both advocacy organizations, among other things, so it isn't a shocking situation.
- monochromatic 10y agoThey don't defend the 2nd amendment because they're left-leaning. Like I said.
- muninn_ 10y agoAlthough I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Why weren't we funding the ACLU to help these people? I haven't seen Google talk about this, or AirBnB offer support to widows of veterans whose spouse commits suicide and has left them with nothing. I feel for immigrants from war-torn countries, especially having been there myself. Maybe I'm too cynical and look at these moves (AirBnB, Uber, Google, etc...) as marketing moves. I wish we cared more about homeless people, people in West Virginia and Kentucky who have lost their jobs and got drenched in opiates without any protests from anybody, or veterans who can't pay their VA bills. Idk. I know this comment will be unpopular, and that's ok. I tend to care more about those who I feel (whether true or not) are being left behind because that's who I am.
- ucha 10y agoI am disappointed by these kind of comments. Being contrarian just for the sake of it doesn't get us anywhere. We cannot anytime someone does something good ask why something we consider better wasn't previously done.
- enitihas 10y agoI don't think he is being contrarian just for the sake of it. He is just using the platform to raise awareness about issues which are serious but don't make the same impact into public discussions and don't get similar levels of support. There is nothing bad in bringing more issues to light, and now seems the perfect time for this when the public appetite is ready for such issues.
- ucha 10y agoI see your point but isn't easy to understand that the reason tech companies and YC try to help the ACLU is because charity begins at home? Preventing engineers from working at these companies because of their national origin affects them more than police violence against black people. There surely are other causes more worthy of support outside the US that he did not mention.
- hannob 10y agoI see an error message. But it's actually interesting enough: "Apache/2.2.24 (Unix) mod_hive/5.5 mod_ssl/2.2.24 OpenSSL/1.0.0-fips mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 mod_fcgid/2.3.6 Server at blog.ycombinator.com Port 443" This is all widely outdated. OpenSSL 1.0.0 support has ended in 2014. Running mod_fcgid and mod_fastcgi in the same server process doesn't seem to make any sense (as they are basically competitioners for the same functionality).
- edoceo 10y agoDefaults on old boxen, that is still running, wow! Frontpage!
- andres 10y agoSam - I'm very proud of you and your team.
- llccbb 10y agoPeople who want to use their tech and coding skills to enable and enact progressive change should consider getting involved in the ProgressiveCodersNetwork (Progcode)[0]. They are a dedicated organization that is all about facilitating and organizing efforts, not dictating projects. [0] http://progcode.co http://progcode.co
- nayuki 10y ago500 Internal Server Error
- Maarius 10y agoCached: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Wr9fuAQM4bcJ:https://blog.ycombinator.com/welcome-aclu/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Wr9fuA...
- deadcast 10y agoHappy to hear this! I just became an ACLU member yesterday and I'm grateful to have an organization like them around in our current frightening times. The amount of support they've been getting is pretty awesome! :)
- tdkl 10y agoITT : A circle-jerk of wishful utopic hippie community with freedom for everyone - except the corporations and individuals who bankroll them and diminishing middle class who pay the bill.
- andy_ppp 10y agoThere are quite a few comments by presumably more right wing people marked as dead here. Excluding these people from debate this way makes hacker news less useful IMO. Why not make constructive criticism instead of downvoting, I realise it's easier...
- maxerickson 10y agoIt's flags that kill comments, not downvotes. None of the flagged comments (at the moment) are constructive. There's one other dead comment that hit another filter, it hasn't been flagged.
- freehunter 10y agoHow do you flag comments? I can flag posts, but with over 11k karma I don't see an option to flag comments, only downvote. Or can only the admins flag a comment?
- maxerickson 10y agoThe threshold for flagging is lower than for downvotes. The flag button only appears on the individual comment page, accessed by clicking the timestamp (the same page shows a "vouch" button, to support a comment you think is unfairly dead). I guess it is turned off for some people if their flags don't seem to be useful or whatever. (I am not a mod or admin, just a user)
- tim333 10y agoClick the bit that says "1 hour ago" or similar. Then you should see "flag" above the comment.
- forgetsusername 10y agoHackerNews loves to pat itself on the back about what a great community it is, but when it comes to politics (and other specific topics) the bullying and one-sidedness is as bad as anywhere on the internet. But this is exactly why half of America is in utter shock about what's happening: their discussion circles involve one "side", and the other isn't acceptable.
- jonstewart 10y agoThank you, YC! Hopefully your contribution outweighs the money Peter Thiel has made from his investments at YC so that there's a net gain for human rights and civil liberties.
- matt_wulfeck 10y agoI used to be an ACLU supporter, but stopped after their main objectives switched to more of what I describe as matters of feelings, E.g., whether a man who identifies as a women can use a women's bathroom in Georgia, or whether the term man or women can ever be used at all. In my opinion most the ACLU LGBT agenda has been a useless war on words, yet it's taking on a greater and greater importance in the organization. Meanwhile constitutionally-guaranteed personal liberties, such as protection against unreasonable search and seizure, seemed to be getting less and less important. Instead I've switched to funding the EFF, which really does seem at the forefront of constitutional freedoms because it's operating in an area where they are seriously under attack. In the grand scheme of things the EFF seems to be doing much more important and historically relevant work.
- tghw 10y agoThat's hardly their main focus. Go to https://www.aclu.org/ https://www.aclu.org/ and click Issues. LGBT Rights are just one of 18 top level issues (many broken down into many more related issues). I love the EFF, but they don't cover voting rights, disability rights, immigration rights, racial justice, etc.
- matt_wulfeck 10y agoThey have a lot of pokers in the civil liberty fire, and I really do wish them success in all of them. However as you (and probably many others here) are now supporters you'll start receiving the newsletter which outlines your local chapters focus, recent successes, and new battles. You can make a decision to continue supporting the organization or switch to something you believe personally is more important.
- cabalamat 10y ago> racial justice According to https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/affirmative-action https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/affirmative-actio... they support discrimination against white people: > Affirmative action is one of the most effective tools for redressing the injustices caused by our nation’s historic discrimination against people of color and women, and for leveling what has long been an uneven playing field. This is bad for two reasons 1. is is immoral in principle 2. it is bad politics; attitudes like this make it more likely that Trump will win a 2nd term
- gthtjtkt 10y agoSo when we were dropping bombs on them it wasn't worth making an official statement, but now that they get held up at the border for a few hours it's suddenly worth talking about? I can't think of a case where the term "Virtue Signaling" is more apt.
- beaconstudios 10y agowell, it's been reported on quite heavily that we're constantly being bombarded with fake news. Some just don't recognise that it's an issue across the political spectrum.
- l8again 10y agoCombined with the blanket ban that includes even GC holders, and a clause that due preference is given to one religion over another, along with the way its being implemented (grandmothers detained for 13 - 24 hours on valid visas) with the dark context of the candidate's campaign promise and his administration admission that they "made it legal", yes it is a Muslim ban.
- boboyo 10y agoNo, it's not but good job reciting the talking points. There are 46 other Muslim majority countries not affected. GC holders are not affected as has been clearly stated by WH.
- l8again 10y agoGC holders were included, then they weren't, and now they are on a "case by case basis". But good job prettying up the pig, though the stink is strong on this one.
- jlgaddis 10y agoDid a bunch of people just learn the term "virtue signaling" in the last few days? I don't recall seeing it spoken on here in ages but it seems I've read it 20 times in just the last few days. It reminds me of a child who learns a new, big word and then porceeds to use it in conversation (to "show off") as often as possible.
- yeukhon 10y ago> Apache/2.2.24 (Unix) mod_hive/5.5 mod_ssl/2.2.24 OpenSSL/1.0.0-fips mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 mod_fcgid/2.3.6 Server at blog.ycombinator.com Port 443 Should probably hide this...
- mjmsmith 10y agoThis is very welcome news, even if it won't go over well with the large number of authoritarians here.
- forgetsusername 10y ago>the large number of authoritarians here. Everybody who has a different viewpoint than me is a <insert label>!
- MagnumOpus 10y agoHow would you label people who are for reducing civil liberties then?
- forgetsusername 10y agoI think you should provide a bit of evidence for the "large numbers" of people in favour of "reducing civil liberties" on these boards.
- freehunter 10y agoWell for one, take a look at all the comments complaining that this is too political, or complaining about the dirty liberals on this site. Nearly all (not all, but nearly all) the people who are against the ACLU are the people that you're looking for.
- lol214365 10y agoWhat civil liberties? You think it is a civil liberty that foreign nationals may enter the United States?
- dragonwriter 10y agoIt's a civil liberty that the privilege of entry is not granted in manner which amounts to state favor to, or disfavor to, a particular religion. Entry of aliens itself is not a civil liberty.
- koolba 10y agoSo when did YC decide to do this? Was it in the works for a while or purely knee jerk response to the past week?
- 6stringmerc 10y agoAs a wise man was once rumored to say, "In the Start Up World, be nimble and never miss a bandwagon that fits in your vertical."
- griffinmichl 10y agoSam Altman and Paul Graham have clearly been pissed off for quite a while if you follow them on Twitter.
- angry-hacker 10y agoWhen ever it's beneficial to them and makes them more money. If you believe otherwise, you're a fool. Too bad they didn't step up when Obama started to wiretap the whole world what is much bigger issue. They and their companies should have cut all the ties with the fascist government, but most likely knowingly let their companies to participate. I don't support Trump, but Altman and PG lack balls, are cowards and hypocrites.
- adgasf 10y agoThe ACLU was founded in 1920. It seems wierd to include it in a YC batch.
- koolba 10y agoHow much money do non-profits get?
- tim333 10y agoI think $120k the same as for profits. Dunno if the ACLU will be more.
- samuelbrin 10y agoThank you YC. Thank you all so much. On this particular issue, I do not think it is worth engaging with people about its merit or timing. This is a critical moment in history and you are doing something. The velocity of decision-making in the oval office means we literally don't have time to sit down with the cynics right now.
- pcl 10y agoTechnical issue with the Wufoo form [0]: on iOS Chrome, the input fields somehow end up triggering autofill with first name / last name. The second field is for email address, not last name, however. Looking at the source, the best I can come up with is that the email field's 'id' attribute is set to 'title2', and maybe that's used elsewhere on the internet in a context where I've entered a last name? Also, when I hit 'back' and corrected the name, the submit button became a (clickable) no-op. Reloading the form and re-submitting worked fine. [0] https://ycombinatorevents.wufoo.com/forms/q42uszl19i1mu6/ https://ycombinatorevents.wufoo.com/forms/q42uszl19i1mu6/
- aashaykumar92 10y ago"This is awesome, good luck!" or something similarly supportive should be the bulk of comments in here. Cynicism for something like this, especially given the time we're in, is not helpful.
- irrational 10y agoI appreciate the ACLU. They make it easy for me to vote. Every election I go through the voting booklet to see how the ACLU recommends I vote on candidates and issues, then I vote the opposite.
- codezero 10y agoWhy? How can you be sure your beliefs/convictions anti-correlate with the ACLU every election? How do you calibrate it?
- pcl 10y agoThis is very timely. In particular, I was happy to see the appeal for help from engineers. I've been brainstorming for the last couple of days about what more I can do to defend the America I want to live in, now that it seems clear that such defense will be necessary. But as a programmer, it's not obvious to me what is the best way for me to do so in the immediate term. One of the things that's appealing to me about the ACLU in particular is the bipartisan nature of their mission. I'm sure that there are other such organizations out there looking for engineers to help out. Does anyone have such a list? EDIT: here are some, from brandonb's response elsewhere in this comment thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13532281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13532281
- nickparker 10y agoIt isn't bipartisan, but ProgCode was mentioned elsewhere in the thread. They build open-source tools for progressive political organizations. If you aren't a progressive, you might still consider getting involved and employing those same tools to help your preferred party/organizations. The ideal of higher political involvement through digital tools is very bipartisan in my opinion - notwithstanding disenfranchisement efforts by the right, which I like to view separately from conservatism itself. http://www.progcode.co/#about http://www.progcode.co/#about
- johngalt 10y agoI applaud anyone supporting the ACLU, but perhaps it would send a less partisan message if the YC also supported the NRA. Of course, YC may intend to send a partisan message. In that case I guess it's better to only defend the rights that <ingroup> are interested in defending.
- zitterbewegung 10y agoThe article is short of details and I am curious what ycombinator will contribute to the ACLU other than capital (networking? , constructive criticism ) ? It doesn't fit the previous nonprofits since it is well established.
- jrowley 10y agoYC will teach them how to spend all that money they just raised! Jokes aside I think YC should be able to help them utilize technology to connect people and advance their message.
- jaypaulynice 10y agoCome on YC, glad you're funding the ACLU and it's much needed, but where is the response to the homelessness in San Francisco for example? We care more about refugees than people who already live here?! Too many companies are taking advantage of a bad situation for PR and marketing!
- boboyo 10y agosad this is flagged to the bottom yet it's a valid concern
- anigbrowl 10y agoI have posted stories about homelessness and the unsustainability of economic inequality here for years and have had many productive discussions with the HN community in general and YC members in particular on these topics. Just because people are activated over refugees does not mean they're indifferent to domestic political issues.
- chillacy 10y agoProbably because you could make a comment like this about any social issue, and the substance basically amounts to "my cause is more important than your cause". I've seen it attached to space exploration (why bother with space when our environment is in danger?) and victims of natural disasters (but what about <local natural disaster>).
- RainManDetroit 10y agoI wish the union had a refund policy, though I would be litigated and defamed for eternity
- RainManDetroit 10y agoI wish the union had a refund policy, though I would be litigated and defamed for eternity
- oneshoe 10y agoSimply, Thank You!
- johndevor 10y agoWhy is Ycombinator involved in politics now? This didn't used to be the case.
- int_19h 10y agoI think it's more of a case of politics affecting the industry significantly. You can't really fully isolate business from politics, because politics, by definition, affects business. Businesses can tolerate that to some degree, but when the disruption becomes too severe, straightforward pragmatic business decisions start being inherently political.
- blablabla123 10y agoYeah but there's kind of the idea to keep both as separate as possible. When Hitler came to power he was very well connected with the big industrialists at that time. The years before Germany was a really chaotic and highly polarized nation. Reading the US news daily (CNN and Fox) I also see large polarization. I wonder if this move is bridging the gap between left and right or widening it.
- int_19h 10y agoKeeping them separate in this sense can actually encourage cooperation, like the infamous case of IBM. They didn't collaborate with the government of the Third Reich because they were ideologically in lockstep - no, they kept their business separate from their politics, and collaborated because it was profitable.
- blablabla123 10y ago...because they had no ethics. Ethics is surely a thing that should be omnipresent.
- int_19h 10y agoA lot of politics - in fact, I would argue that it's all politics, ultimately - is about ethics. This ranges from obviously related stuff like "it's unethical to abort babies", to more indirect like "it's unethical to let people starve or die from diseases when they can be helped, so we need taxes to maintain a welfare system preventing that".
- dirkdk 10y agoI feel the pain of the underprivileged americans, in particular our African-American brothers and sisters. However, there is a difference however between the top leadership of our country making explicit decisions to pass legislation to exclude groups of people that is at odds with the constitution and established legislation, and local government and law enforcement running cities in an unfair way. ACLU is valuable in both situations, but in particular to fight the current executive branch that requires massive manpower, knowledge and dedication.
- joshfraser 10y agoI've been a long time supporter of the ACLU. While they're being politicized right now as being anti-Trump, the thing I admire most about them is their consistency in fighting for the rights of everyone. They stick to their principles of free speech and human equality no matter how unpopular the issue or unsavory their client. A good example is back in the 1930s when the ACLU simultaneously defended the rights of blacks on behalf of the NAACP at the same time as they were fighting for the rights of the Klu Klux Klan to hold rallies calling for the abolition of those rights. The strength of your convictions are only tested at the extremes. Do you still believe in free speech when it's coming from neo-Nazis? The ACLU do and I deeply respect them for that.
- Pigo 10y agoI would really like to see if a moral position like that could still stand tall. I'd be surprised if they could defend Milo Yiannopoulos's Twitter account without massive protests and everyone losing their job.
- CPLX 10y agoThere are literally zero constitutional issues raised by the nature of his relationship with Twitter.
- lol214365 10y agoThere are no constitutional issues raised by the border wall, and yet the ACLU is opposed to that.
- cowsandmilk 10y agoThe parts of the border wall built by President Bush seized property from private citizens. Infamously, there is now a golf course in Texas that is now on the wrong side of the border. So, you have to subject yourself to search by CBP in order to go play golf despite not leaving your country. Bush tackled the easiest parts of the wall. Expanding will only present more seizing of property from citizens and subjecting citizens to search and seizure solely due to their proximity to the border, despite them having no desire to cross the border. Whether being searched for wanting to play golf is unreasonable is a constitutional issue.
- soheil 10y agoHow do startups already part of YC feel about this? What are the ramifications of having your name tied with and being part of an organization that backed something that has as much to do, if not more, with politics than technology?
- justinlaster 10y agoPolitics is intertwined with everything. Not sure why you're trying to draw a line here. Start ups are extremely "people" based entities. If you think the ACLU doesn't fit in with the YCombinator landscape -- given recent events -- then I'm not sure what I can really say to paint a more vivid picture to make you understand.
- soheil 10y agoMy point is not that startups are not "people" based entities, but simply that this is a clear aversion from the norm on the part of YC and that ACLU is as much a political organization, if not more, than a technological one.
- anigbrowl 10y agoTechnology has political ramifications, like what to do with a population that has been economically displaced by robots, physical or virtual; or how much nformation government and powerful corporations should be able to harvest about individuals; or whether you have the right to use encryption or not, or....
- philip1209 10y agoPolitics aside, the ACLU is experiencing hyper growth. They received the equivalent of six years of donations in 48 hours. I'm interested in seeing how YC helps them.
- pkd 10y agoI am sure this is a good thing, but I can't help but feel that YC is overcompensating for the fact that one of their partners played a pivotal role in Trump's victory and they did nothing to oppose it. But then again, maybe I am just cynical.
- aestetix 10y agoThis would be a lot easier for me to digest if YC could ask their companies going forward to pledge to treat all user data as PII.
- tlb 10y agoI'm interested in this idea, but I'm not sure exactly what to suggest that companies do. Can you recommend some guidelines on how to treat user data that will reduce the harm caused by the way startups currently treat user data?
- aestetix 10y agoTwo immediate suggestions: 1. Use a Ulysses pact[1] explaining how data is and will be used. Assure users that the company won't turn into a data broker[2]. 2. Either lobby local/state/federal government to create legal data protections, or publicly support existing efforts. Europe is not perfect, but the ECHR and German data protection laws are a fantastic model to follow. There are a lot of more technical suggestions involving data sanitizing and security, but for a startup that just needs to get up to speed quickly, those are two suggestions that would go a long way. Leading by example might bring the entire industry forward in a positive way. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_pact [2]https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601506/23andme-sells-data-for-drug-search/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601506/23andme-sells-data...
- lpolovets 10y agoIt upsets me to read negative comments about initiatives like this. My assumption is that most people agree that it'd be good for the ACLU to have more funding and to operate in a more efficient, higher leverage manner. If YC can help with that, great! They could be backing other areas instead, or they could be backing nothing. I, for one, am glad they're backing something good. I don't understand why people often bring up other areas where private money and resources could have gone. When someone says "I support X" (e.g. X = ACLU), they are not saying "I don't support anything that's not X." They are just saying they care about X. If you would prefer to donate your time and resources to another cause, that's great! I'm sure you'd be disappointed if you dedicated yourself to curing diabetes and someone complained because they thought cancer research should be higher priority, or if you offered to hire 10k refugees around the world and people suggested a boycott because they preferred that you hire Americans instead. Let's not discourage people from trying to make the world better.
- mememachine 10y agoThe discouragement is not about making the world better
- rz2k 10y agoMaybe a little glib, but this came up on Reddit from Twitter: > The left protest about Trump, but they're strangely silent about King Raedwald's invasion of Northumbria in AD 616[1] It's a bizarre way to argue in favor of being politically detached. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/5r6zw0/the_left_protest_about_trump_but_theyre_strangely/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/5r6zw0/the_left...
- tinalumfoil 10y agoI never supported Trump, but I can't find it in myself to join the opposition specifically because I don't understand them. When someone says "Why are you protesting Trump doing X, but not Obama doing X?" it's not a valid argument, and it's not a convincing argument, but that's not the point. If your answer is "well, when Obama did X he mitigated the negative effects by also doing Y, and did X in political climate where it made more sense and yadda yadda" then I have something tangible to understand your motives. I can feel like I'm donating to an organization or protesting alongside people I understand the motives of. But by treating it as an insider secret only the smarter half of Americans will figure out, regardless of the issue or question, I'm left in the dark alongside the unenlightened Republicans. Worse, Republicans, who will soon control 3 branches of government, get to say people are just predisposed to hating Trump and have no incentive to listen to protesters. My personal take has been the left has been thrown into chaos by Trump's unexpected victory and don't have a unified voice or reasoning. People won't speak because their afraid their reasoning might step on the toes of someone else's, so everyone just pretends its obvious and gathers immense support without saying anything.
- Illniyar 10y agoWhat will they present at Demo Day? Not that I'm against helping the ACLU (or any non-profit for that matter), but they don't seem like a good fit, as an organization, to an accelerator of tech startups - it's not entrepreneurial, not technology oriented, far older then YC and doesn't seek (and can't really accept) VC funding.
- ansible 10y agoYeah, I was wondering about that too. They're not a startup... they've been around way longer that YC. I'm fine with YC supporting the ACLU in some way (financially or whatever), but... are they going to release an app or service? What's the angle here?
- asveikau 10y agoPre-inauguration, discussion of Trump's immigration policies and their logical conclusion would have been shut down under the "no politics" rule. Seems it only takes ~10 days of this stuff being real for folks here to admit that politics affects everybody and is a valid topic of discussion.
- tim333 10y agoGuidelines: "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon." I think this counts as an interesting new phenomenon.
- asveikau 10y agoIs it new if they've been promising to do this for ~1 year? This is exactly my point, that people on here flame you into the ground if you talk about "politics", but it could be that some of us 1 year ago would have been legitimately trying to talk about what was to come.
- freehunter 10y agoSome day we're going to have flying cars. There, now when we actually get flying cars, no one is allowed to talk about it. You see the point there? Lots of crazy people run for president and say crazy things, that doesn't mean you panic about it right then, because the odds of them getting elected is so slim. And lots of people say crazy things to get elected, then never do those things because those things would be crazy. What we have here is a crazy person who got elected by promising crazy things, and is now following through on those crazy things. That's why this is novel even though he's been saying these things for over a year.
- asveikau 10y agoSounds to me like you didn't accurately analyze the threat and now you are making excuses about how nobody could see it. People saw it. PS: I have followed US elections before, I am a DC native and followed them since I was a kid (now in my thirties) - I have observed differences between campaign promises and execution/governance, but this one was still pretty easy to predict based on what we knew before. The bigger shock is that he won in the first place.
- krylon 10y agoHeads-up: This going to be a long-ish, semi-OT rant: To be honest, I feel kind of dumb these days. How I hate admitting that. I read all the outrageous things Trump said during the Primaries and his election campaign, and I did not really take them seriously, or him. Otto von Bismarck, a German politician once said (or at least I've seen the quote attributed to him, but it seems like something he would say): "People never lie as much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt." I was hoping that if he got elected, Trump would turn it down a notch. I mean, damn, for once a politician does as she/he promised to, and it's gotta be this guy. What makes me feel dumb is that I could have seen it coming. There's enough people that said so. Smart people, smarter than me, certainly. I hate pulling a Godwin, but I fear lots of people in Germany must have felt like this after you-know-who rose to power. It's scary. And I am a German, living in Germany. Let me point out, as an example, that guy in Hungary, whose name I keep forgetting. Hungary is much closer than any US territory (unless you count the military bases in Germany), and quite frankly, I don't really give a damn who is president of Hungary. Or prime minister or whatever. With the USA, it is different. They are the most powerful country on earth, for better or worse. The risk of a military confrontation with Russia is going to be a lot lower than with Hillary, I think. But that seems to be about the only glimmer of hope[1]. Besides that, Trump turns out to be even more disgusting than I would have expected. Y Combinator got quite a bit of flak when Peter Thiel donated more money to Trump's campaign than some people make in a lifetime, and with good reason, IMHO. So at least it's good to read about this. I hope the ACLU makes the best of this and makes life as uncomfortable for Trump and his circle of "advisors" as they are able to within the boundaries laid down in the US constitution. The world has seen much worse people than Trump come and go, and in the long run it's all water under the bridge. But in the short run, people have suffered and died in quantities that boggle the mind. Let's hope the world gets lucky this time. [1] 'bout the only other positive aspect I can make out right now is that reading the news is not going to get boring anytime soon.
- santoshalper 10y agoThe idea that there was a significant risk of military confrontation with Russia under Hillary was pure propaganda. Russia is absolutely in no position to engage the United States militarily, and are resorting to manipulating US politics because they know this.
- acqq 10y agoAnybody who wants to have a balanced view of ACLU should try to investigate for himself about the connections between the Muslim Brotherhood, an organization with a published goal to dismantle democracy once it democratically gains enough power, and ACLU.
- hvo 10y agoA standing ovation for Ycombinator.May the grace and bless of God be with you all.Keep up the good work.
- rhizome 10y agoI have to wonder what YC's exit strategy is here, exits not always benefiting the funded company.
- tim333 10y agoI don't think there's an exit strategy or taking of equity. They've funded non profits like that for a couple of years now. "money we’re putting into the nonprofits will be a charitable donation" https://www.ycombinator.com/nonprofits/ https://www.ycombinator.com/nonprofits/
- kafkaesq 10y agoIt's not that kind of an "investment". It's more less obviously a charitable donation.
- rhizome 10y agoWhy leave it to interpretation?
- kafkaesq 10y agoTone and message. Which are quite significant, in gestures like these. To call it a "donation" would carry a connotation of pity, or do-gooderism ("We know this is money down the toilet; but we're doing it anyway because it's the right thing.") Calling it an "investment" suggests that in fact they earnestly expect a substantial return on that investment -- which they do, though not a directly financial return, of course. But rather in safeguarding the very fabric of society in these perilous times we find ourselves in (which, indirectly, also safeguards their ability to keep doing what they're doing).
- brlewis 10y agoI hope they build their startup into a large independent entity and don't just accept the first acquisition offer they get from Google or Facebook.
- Hydraulix989 10y agoI'll have more to say after work, but the timeline itself of tech companies' actions is telling. First/day one (and same day as Muslim ban): The companies and people that actually cared stood up (Google) Day Two+: Transition Period (when Lyft rushed in to capitalize on Uber's bad PR) mid-this week (after Muslim ban): The companies that are pressured into doing so or are solely after PR karma stand up (Bezos, YC)
- endswapper 10y agoThe combination of relationships with Thiel and the ACLU sets a great example and creates tremendous potential for significant progress on issues. Great mention for Watsi, I'm a fan.
- giardini 10y agoWhy, oh why, has this been posted here? Is there possibly a single institution that serves as more of a lightning rod for anger in the USA, in any political direction, than the ACLU? Would a similar article be posted about the NRA, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, or Southern Poverty Law Center (all which, along with ACLU, do excellent work for their contributors/supporters)? From the ycombinator Hacker News Guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon." What part of "politics" is this not? This topic now is yet another gathering point for all unhappy with the election results. Perhaps this forum will allow those discontents to vent to sufficient degree to restore themselves to adulthood and return to their work, home and friends with a more balanced attitude required of a citizen in a republic. But I fear it will simply be another place for them to reinforce their anger and distrust. It's probably a good thing that liberals, in general, avoid firearms, otherwise there might be fighting in the streets already.
- kafkaesq 10y agoWhy has this been posted here? Because it relates to the public doings of YC, which are always on-topic (overriding the "no politics per se" rule).
- giardini 10y agoIndeed? The logic of your well-thought out and ponderous argument is utterly overwhelming. Might have as well said "Because we can!"
- kafkaesq 10y agoThe logic of your well-thought out and ponderous argument is utterly overwhelming. Actually it's a pretty straightforward consequence of the HN guidelines, which clearly do not forbid all political discussion; just "politics for its own sake", i.e. political talk not strongly anchored in some other intrinsically legitimate topic.
- KVFinn 10y agoThe ACLU defended a Republican city councilor in my parent's small home town for having his signs taken down by the Democratic mayor. You wouldn't think they'd even notice such a tiny thing, but they were there, and they won.
- makomk 10y agoI have a feeling that in the current political climate, a lot of the ACLU's traditional activities will come under hostile scrutiny from their newfound supporters soon.
- joering2 10y ago> Also, please consider donating to the ACLU. Am I the only one seeing irony that a billionaires VC firm is asking for donations to organization they are funding?
- mmckelvy 10y agoI see SV and its ilk are doubling down on the actions and ideas that lost them the election. Perhaps something beyond a knee-jerk reaction is in order. Great article along these lines: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/nine-questions-protesting-donald-trumps-immigration-ban-must-answer/ http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/nine-questions-protesti... Particularly salient quote: "If you decide that border restrictions are fascist then you are declaring the views of most people to be fascist, because most people believe in border security." Food for thought.
- morgante 10y agoNobody is saying that "border restrictions" are fascist. It's jeopardizing rule of law which reeks of fascism. This weekend, the rule of law was jeopardized though the: - surprise invalidation and revocation of visas; people who had followed every law were still being detained and deported - detention of permanent residents - refusal to follow court orders We could instigate far more stringent border restrictions (maybe no new visas to anywhere) and I wouldn't call it fascist. It's the implementation (without warning or judicial oversight) which is fascist. We're supposed to have 3 branches of government, not a dictator.
- mmckelvy 10y agoThe majority of the reactions I have seen focus almost exclusively on the restrictions themselves rather than the way they were implemented. Among SV, the media, Hollywood, and elites in general, any call for immigration / entry restrictions almost immediately results in the usual "you are a bigot", "you are a fascist" "we are a nation of immigrants" etc. visceral reactions NOT the kind of more nuanced response you provided above. That's the point of the article to which I referred. Maybe it's time to stop calling people names and organizing against them for having completely legitimate concerns and instead debate the actual issues at hand in a reasonable manner.
- morgante 10y ago> The majority of the reactions I have seen focus almost exclusively on the restrictions themselves rather than the way they were implemented. That's because the problem is with the restrictions themselves. Banning people, en masse, including existing lawful visa holders and permanent residents is a huge problem. The fact that you haven't seen this information or reaction before says more about you than the facts of the case. If you follow the NYT, Atlantic, or even the Twitter feeds of many people reacting to this (including from YC) you'll see that much of the consternation is about how broad this ban is—not with the specific idea of tightening immigration rules. In a democracy, we don't ban thousands of people from our country overnight. Changes like this, regardless of their merits, should be debated and approved by the legislature—not made by executive fiat.
- whoeffingcares 10y ago> They are an unqualified, categorically "good" organization hahahahaha someone doesn't know their history.
- rafikicoln 10y agoEspecially now, it is very important to voice our concerns to our representatives. I've found https://www.mailyourrep.io/ https://www.mailyourrep.io/ to be really good at letting me do just that.
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- chx 10y agoI have debated myself but did not donate the ACLU this weekend. (I did donate to the Victoria Islamic Center Rebuilding though.) I hate to be right. Working with an organization where Peter Thiel is a partner is a betrayal of everything the ACLU stands for.
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- calimac 10y agoYour brains are so deep in cognitive dissonance that your funding the ACLU in yc. Look back at the psych warfarin of the HRC Campaign and ask yourself if you are being rational or eating the red meat of the left tech media? Pull out of it man!!! A decade forward your going to look back and see what donkeys asses you look like right now
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- cbhl 10y agosama, I hope you will consider temporarily withdrawing YC's involvement (as an entity) with the ACLU. I know that you mean well, and that you want to help. Your work on voteplz, and your blog posts during the election (and since) all demonstrate that. However, this announcement -- especially now, with the ACLU raising $24 million over the weekend -- feels like "whitewashing" to me. The announcement lacks a number for the amount funded, so it must not have been big enough to be material (probably $XX,000). I am not comfortable with Peter Thiel's involvement with the Trump campaign. And, by extension, I am not comfortable with sama's and YC's position to continue working with Thiel. I don't feel safe, given the current political environment. I feel like this announcement sounds like a way to "make up" for not cutting ties with Thiel. Basically, it looks like a PR move in YC's interest instead of the ACLU's interest -- something like the Ronald McDonald charity, or Google donating Chromebooks to schools, or an oil company donating to a charity that replants the rainforest. I worry that many others (especially immigrants, women, and people of color) may feel the same way. I don't expect sama or YC to cut ties with Thiel -- sama has already given reasons why he doesn't wish to: https://twitter.com/sama/status/787834428064083968 https://twitter.com/sama/status/787834428064083968 But I believe that, so long as Thiel continues to be involved with YC, that YC being associated with the ACLU will harm the ACLU, its brand, and its ability to fundraise. And -- even with the brightest minds in SV -- I'm not confident in YC's ability to help the ACLU enough to offset that harm. I really wish that I didn't feel this way about the announcement. We really need to be working together to fight to protect our democracy. (Edit: Rewrote they -> I in Paragraph 4.)