26 ms·

This event was by far the most disappointing Mac event in the history. A lot of the time was wasted in: - Mildly funny jokes and comparison with 90's technolog

This event was by far the most disappointing Mac event in the history. A lot of the time was wasted in: - Mildly funny jokes and comparison with 90's technology. - 90% of the talk was about the touch bar. - Awful demos of Photoshop & some cringy DJ. I was hoping we would see: - A new MacBook with all day battery life and touch bar, even thinner design. Ok, I understand that they are trying to consolidate their product line but the category of a web-browsing machine that is 12", super small design and an adequate processor is left without any update. - A MacBook pro with some real innovation. They could just copy Microsoft with a detachable screen (oh but they would cannibalize iPad market), pen input, touch screen. But, instead we get this touchbar thing which is great but I am just disappointed that it is the only thing they have innovated here. - Killed Macbook Air. - No iMac update (!!!). - No monitor announcement. Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday. Apple's entire presentation felt like they are trying to fill the 1.5 hours of time with bullshit. Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate and knowledgeable whereas Jony Ive sounds like an Evangelical designer who feels "fake". I don't know how to explain it.

FireBeyond 10y ago
16GB max. No iMac update. No Mac Pro update. Buyer's Guide on MacRumors now: "iMac: Might as well buy. Nothing on the horizon." "Mac Pro: Buy. If you like paying 2013 prices for 2013 hardware."
- yuhong 10y ago
  Looks like they still use LPDDR3, with no 32GB option even in the 15-inch. I wonder if they want to go to LPDDR4 when Intel supports it.
  - op00to 10y ago
    What do you need 32GB for? Not saying you don't, but what's the use case vs. using someone else's cloud machine in a datacenter?
    - walterbell 10y ago
      Virtual machines Edit: for comparison, Lenovo T460p can be configured with quad-core i7, Nvidia GPU, 32GB RAM, 1 SSD + 1 HD/SSD, replaceable battery, 1.9mm key travel, base starts at $800 with many components user-replaceable, http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t460p/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t460p...
      - sliverstorm 10y ago
        Has much work been done on truly memory-light virtual machines? It seems like a really big opportunity, even if it's really hard.
        tonylemesmer 10y ago
        Yeah if someone worked out how to use less memory in a VM we could use it in normal machines too ;)
        walterbell 10y ago
        Unikernels are one area of research, http://unikernel.org http://unikernel.org
        _joel 10y ago
        It's not that it's hard, it's just the logistics of running the virtual machines(s) and the applications they contain. You could use a minimal linux distro like Alpine or Tiny Core, but you still need to run applications on top of that if you're testing or developing. Spinning up a basic devstack instance (for example) take a minimum of 6GB and that's before you even deploy any test vms inside that infrastructure. Another example, if you're doing config management development you may need several VMs running which in turn may have (say) large java apps with heavy memory requirements even when fairly unladen. So, I guess the answer is, it depends on what you're doing and what the memory requirements of the thing you're running on VMs is.
        Sanddancer 10y ago
        Hyper-V has dynamic memory, so memory resources can be reallocated as needed, and has driver hooks so that linux vms can be resized too. There's also Intel's clear containers push which virtualizes for linux but shares a lot of kernel structures between the host and the VM.
  - vegabook 10y ago
    No 32gb? Is this true? Someone please tell me that's not true. I was (against all odds), hoping for 64! If this is true, consider me disgusted. I had 16GB in my (long lost, loved) 17-inch Macbook Pro, in 2009! I really cannot fathom what this company is thinking. I'm bewildered, disappointed, angry, in equal measure. I've been waiting for a killer Macbook Pro for literally 18 months! Sorry. I'm going Lenovo/Dell or why not, Surface Studio. For the first time in 20 years. I'm going Windows. I will not support a company which insults me with this. If this is Jony Ive's work, if they are so self-confident in their "design" that they cannot put a decent hardware spec together, then these people need to be retired. Or maybe I just haven't cottoned on? They just don't care about high end users? Or are they completely out of touch? I don't understand.
    - gommm 10y ago
      Yep that's the one thing that pisses me off to no end.
      - vegabook 10y ago
        I just don't understand. The chips have been available for 12 months. It's almost like they're doing it on purpose.
        yuhong 10y ago
        Hence why I mention that they are still using LPDDR3, which they even left out of the keynote. The major alternative would be using DDR4 I think.
        vegabook 10y ago
        It's basically an insult.
    - ghshephard 10y ago
      Given that 99% of users don't require more than 8GB in a MacLaptop, it's hard to justify increasing the maximum ram beyond 16 GB for that fraction of 1% of users who do. Not impossible, mind you - because there is always value in chasing after the 1%, but to some degree, Apple's efficiency at running their operating system and applications on small memory footprints makes it less valuable to increase their maximum ram footprint.
- talmand 10y ago
  >> 16GB max. I was going to say you were wrong because it was stated "starts at 16GB" near the end of the event. Checked the store and sure enough, I see no way to increase the RAM. That's just stupid.
  - yuhong 10y ago
    They even left the fact that it is still LPDDR3 out of the keynote. It was the first question I was thinking of. I wonder when Intel will support LPDDR4.
    - shrewduser 10y ago
      holy hell :|
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      LPDDR4 is supported by some Intel CPU's but overall memory support across intel CPU's is pretty inconsistent for no apparent reason since they are all based on the same core design. That said you won't see any difference in performance between LPDDR3 @ 2133 mhz and LPDDR4 at 2000-2400mhz.
      - yuhong 10y ago
        I was thinking of for example https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-rolls-out-industrys-first-8gb-lpddr4-dram-package https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-rolls-out-industrys-...
        dogma1138 10y ago
        It's likely not even in full production since the roll out was announced a week ago. Also no where does it says the speed and bandwidth they'll support, overall there isn't much performance difference between LPDDR3 or 4, or between DDR3 and 4 when the frequencies are off by only a few 100's of mhz. That said I'm actually disappointed that the memory on the MBP especially the 15" is LPDDR, no reason to degrade memory performance on a machine which already has a pretty big battery, DDR4 is pretty darn power efficient as it is. This to me looks more like another cost cutting decision set by Apple to simplify board design and the supply chain. No 7th gen CPU's, low power memory for no reason, dumping of ports, and a pretty steep price hike. I'm glad I bought my mid 2015 pretty fully upgraded MBP 15 with a dedicated GPU for 1480 GBP on sale last holiday season, this one is not even meh, it's a full on pass, the only feature I like is the touch ID, I still don't understand why Apple doesn't allow you to unlock your Mac with your phone, but now I know why.
- wineisfine 10y ago
  What I absolutely do not comprehend: is it so difficult to upgrade the Mac Pro's? Isn't it a matter of just adding more powerful hardware to it? Like I did myself back in the days, when I built my own PCs. But then in mass production? It just feels lazy from Apple.
  - sangnoir 10y ago
    The answer in one word: margins. Adding expensive hardware (or as you call it, more powerful hardware) to your BOM will cut into your margins.
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  > Mac Pro: Buy. If you like paying 2013 prices for 2013 hardware. It's even worse than that, if you're in the UK: the price of the 2013 Mac Pro has gone up by £500. Yes yes, Brexit and currency adjustment, and if it were new hardware I'd clench my teeth and bear it. But a £500 increase for hardware that's almost three years old is highway robbery.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    The hardware is technically 7-9 years old since the Mac Pro was outdated when it came out. The newest Mac Pro used a Bloomfield CPU (2008) or a Westmere one (2010) and a circa 2009 GPU.
  - drcross 10y ago
    One word- hackintosh.
    - tspike 10y ago
      How well does that work in practice? I've heard so-so things.
      - x0x0 10y ago
        I was looking into it, and the answer seems to be fine if you (1) don't reuse hardware -- just buy exactly the components on tonymacx86; (2) don't install OS updates on release but wait until people have figured out how well they work and tweaked the hackintosh software; (3) are willing to suffer some pain around making imessage work. edit: the key to a good experience seemed to be finding a working configuration then leaving it alone. If you want to update the OS regularly, you'll probably be unhappy.
      - kybernetyk 10y ago
        Turned my gaming PC into a Hackintosh because games became boring. I'm amazed at how easy that went down. Installing OS X took only a little longer than on my native Macs. I just had to tick a few checkmarks in the Hackintosh post-install software to customize for my setup. OS X 10.11 updates I could install as soon as they were available from Apple. No problems at all. (I of course checked the appropriate forums for compatibility notes but there never were any problems reported). Haven't installed 10.12 yet (as I'm not too thrilled by the OS on my MBP anyways) but I heard it works just fine on Hackintoshes. Now the caveats: I disabled the onboard audio and attached external USB speakers instead. Because onboard audio seems to be more broken than not and USB audio "just works". I'm also connecting the machine via ethernet and don't have a WiFi adapter attached. Oh, and I got lucky in the first place by choosing OS X compatible hardware (Intel CPU, ASRock mainboard, AMD GPU). Things that doen't work: Browser DRM with Safari. I can't watch Netflix on the machine. iMessage support is cumbersome. And I can't submit binaries to the app store from the machine. But otherwise for work it's a beast (compile times are great compared to my MBP) :) As long as you use Intel CPU/AMD GPU you're golden. Intel's HD GPUs work, too. Nvidia GPUs need 3rd party drivers from Nvidia.
- znpy 10y ago
  > 16GB max You can have 16 GB ram on a 2011 ThinkPad X220. Just saying.
  - adamors 10y ago
    I think a W500 could already handle 16GB.
rayiner 10y ago
> Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday. Did we watch the same event? Microsoft introduced a $3,000 desktop PC in an era when nobody uses desktops anymore. It introduced a minor update to the Surface Book that starts at $2,300 with dual-core CPU, only 8GB of RAM, and last-gen graphics hardware. For the same price as the new Surface Book i7, I can get an MBP 15" with bigger screen, twice the RAM, and a quad-core CPU, and it's Microsoft that hit it out of the park?!
- gxs 10y ago
  Welcome to the world - a place where perception matters more than reality. This is why every single company has giant marketing departments and this perception informs so many of our decisions both consciously and unconsciously. This is the real danger that apple is in - that how it's perceived is changing even if its products continue to be superior.
- untog 10y ago
  The Surface Studio isn't really just a desktop PC - the whole swivel stand and touch-screen thing makes it a really interesting proposition for people who do a lot of creative and design work. No, it's not mass market, but it is a lot more interesting than anything we saw today.
- gambiting 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure our office of 300 people only has desktops in, so saying that no one uses desktops is a bit much,no? Also, all of our artists(~80) have the CintiQ 24" Tablets, which can now be replaced by the Surface Desktop. It's a fantastic device, if you have a use case for it.
- lloyd-christmas 10y ago
  > in an era when nobody uses desktops anymore. A lot of people have desktops, myself included. I'm not really sure where you got such an impression.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> A lot of people have desktops, myself included. I'm not really sure where you got such an impression. Not just that... If nobody uses desktops, why would Apple waste so much engineering and design resources on something like the iMac if there's no market?
ryaneager 10y ago
-No Mac Mini Update. I was hoping to get one that supported multiple 4k displays. With the title of "Mac Event" I was anticipating at least 2 Macs updated, not just the MBP.
- walterbell 10y ago
  Try Lenovo m900 Tiny, 32GB, up to 3 displays, http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-tiny/m900/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-t... & http://psref.lenovo.com/syspool%5CSys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkCentre%20M900%20Tiny/ThinkCentre%20M900%20Tiny.pdf http://psref.lenovo.com/syspool%5CSys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkC...
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> With the title of "Mac Event" I was anticipating at least 2 Macs updated, not just the MBP. That the first 25 minutes of the event were non-Mac preamble adds salt to that wound.
- 3chelon 10y ago
  They killed the Mac Mini when they stopped making it upgradeable. They can kind of get away with that with the Macbooks because of the form factor, but there's no excuse with a Mini. I'm hanging on to my late 2012 model. Specced out to the max and with a hybrid drive, it still boots faster than my more recent rMBP.
- nicky0 10y ago
  The title was "hello again", it being a Mac event was purely speculation.
grub5000 10y ago
I cringed when Apple's event started with a video claiming how great their products are for disabled people, just the same as Microsoft did the day before. I don't recall either of them then going on to build on that with any product/feature announcements...
- DerekL 10y ago
  What exactly are you looking for that they aren't making? I don't know about Windows, but Macintosh and iOS have all sorts of software features for accessibility, and they've had for years.
  - eric_h 10y ago
    > Macintosh and iOS have all sorts of software features for accessibility, and they've had for years Yup, I remember seeing a blind guy on the subway using voiceover on an iPhone 3g (that would be the second iPhone ever) - totally blew my mind at how adeptly he was able to use the thing.
- tedmiston 10y ago
  The accessibility features in iOS go very deep. Without a doubt they are one of the best computer manufacturers in that market.
- SysArchitect 10y ago
  I had a friend in uni that was blind. He used a Mac for all of his work because he said, and I quote "It's the most beautiful OS I have seen". He wasn't just legally blind, he had absolutely no vision what so ever... but with the voiceover technology and the accessibility built in to OS X 10.4 at the time it was already amazing to him. Apple has worked very hard to make iOS and OS X accessible to not just those with perfect vision or perfect control, but also those with various disabilities.
  - toyg 10y ago
    And now, they make a huge step back by launching an unaccessible touchbar that removes real keys, hence removing options for your friend. Yay, progress.
crooked-v 10y ago
The overlap between the Macbook, Macbook Air, and old and new Macbook Pro lines now is painfully weird. https://gist.github.com/icopp/29f225279a39ba9e3ea0d1f596e97cea https://gist.github.com/icopp/29f225279a39ba9e3ea0d1f596e97c... I'm getting serious shades of "IBM clone vendor throwing darts at a board to try to appeal to every possible price point" instead of coherent product lines here.
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  My guess is it's a transitional period. The new low-end 13″ MacBook Pro, the new 12″ MacBook, and the outdated 11″ and 13″ MacBook Air probably ought not to coexist. But the MacBook Air is important to Apple as their entry-level (i.e. cheapest) laptop, and the MacBook is still too expensive and not quite featureful enough to replace it. I think Apple would like to drop the MacBook Air in favour of a cheaper MacBook at some point, but they can't right now.
- yuhong 10y ago
  I was wondering what would happen if Intel bought Compaq back in 1991 (when Rod Canion and Jim Harris was still at Compaq) for a while now. Intel has a high profit margin too, and Compaq had higher profit margin back in 1991. Even back in the late 1990s laptops still had a higher profit margin, and laptop theft was more common in these days. Anyone remember the Apple price increases in 1988? Particularly for the Mac II it was worse.
- jimbokun 10y ago
  You could just as well have said: "Apple throwing darts at a board to try to appeal to every possible price point just before Steve Jobs returned"
  - yuhong 10y ago
    I was for a while thinking of the case where Apple bought NeXT, but Gil Amelio and later Ellen Hancock stayed as CEO. While PC margins was declining, I was thinking that Apple could mostly focus on the higher-end PC and workstation markets. I wonder how this would have compared to Tim Cook today.
IMcD23 10y ago
> No monitor announcement They announced a 5k monitor that they developed with LG which charges the MBP. You can attach devices to that and it's like a "hub".
- tedmiston 10y ago
  Perusing their website makes it appear that they have killed off the Apple Thunderbolt Display.
  - jeffmould 10y ago
    Apple discontinued Thunderbolt displays sometime beginning to early part of the year.
- Roritharr 10y ago
  I really would like to know if a XPS 13 can drive it.
debt 10y ago
idk seems very impressive to me. engineering is v hard so much respect to the teams at apple for continually pushing consumer electronics to the state of the art. i think it's pretty obvious the macbooks aren't the big money makers at apple. that lil apple pay button is there to subsidize and justify continued development of the mac. apple probably wants to kill the mac. but some guy at apple's like what if we put a lil thumb scanner on it and apple pay then can we keep it pls and then the cfo was like sure okay fine the mac can stay only if you add an apply pay button. also pretty sure all-day battery life isn't innovation and thus probably not what they're working on. how about eternal battery life wherein a solar panel so efficient is able to pull light even in the darkest of situations. how about remote charging. i'm sick of charging shit. that's what's next, no charging.
jorts 10y ago
Having personally met Panos Panay as a fellow groomsman at a friend's wedding, I can tell you that guy is full of energy and passion. He's the type of person that brightens up a room given he's so fun and enthusiastic.
pfg 10y ago
> - No iMac update (!!!). iMacs were refreshed in late 2015. It's typically ~3 years between new generations, often with a hardware refresh somewhere in between. Nothing new here. > - No monitor announcement. They partnered with LG (I think?) on a 5k monitor. Sounds like a reasonable replacement for the Thunderbolt Display.
- acdha 10y ago
  > iMacs were refreshed in late 2015. It's typically ~3 years between new generations, often with a hardware refresh somewhere in between. Nothing new here. http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac shows the days between releases in the past: 147 May 2015 215 Oct 2014 387 Sep 2013 298 Nov 2012 577 May 2011 280 Jul 2010 We're currently 380 days since the last release, which is on the long side other than the one 2010-2011 outlier. I don't think anyone expects Apple to ship radically different hardware designs every year but they desperately need a tick-tock strategy which ships identical cases with non-obsolete components if they expect anyone outside of the die-hard Mac fans to keep buying.
  - pfg 10y ago
    This might have made sense a couple of years ago, but I don't think desktop hardware is advancing at a rate where yearly updates are a must. This seems even more true for typical Mac use-cases where users don't quite care as much about gaming performance. Intel deprecated tick-tock for a reason, so I don't think it would make sense for Apple to adopt that strategy now.
    - acdha 10y ago
      I don't think it needs to be a rigid update every year but they should have a policy of not staying more than one generation behind. The 5K iMac jumped to Skylake, so that's fine, but the rest of the iMac line is stuck on Broadwell, the Mac Mini is Haswell, and the Mac Pro is Ivy Bridge. The solid industrial design, long service life, etc. are worth something but probably not 3-4 hardware generations, especially for the premium market Apple wants to be in. The PC market hasn't been completely stagnant and while nobody is buying a Mac for super hard-core gaming they really don't want to be in a position where someone drops a fair amount of cash and their new computer struggles with a game which came out a year or two back, 4K video playback, etc.
oldmanjay 10y ago
> Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate and knowledgeable whereas Jony Ive sounds like an Evangelical designer who feels "fake". I don't know how to explain it. It's called "bias"
TheRealDunkirk 10y ago
> Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate and knowledgeable He was definitely the best part of the production. They should use him for a lot more in the future.
bitmapbrother 10y ago
>Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday Hmmm, you make it sound as if the Microsoft event was a home run - it wasn't. The Surface Studio was interesting, but it's clearly aimed for graphic professionals and its stratospheric pricing put it out of reach for a lot of people. As for the Surface Book, well, considering all of the issues they've had with the previous version I'm not sure people will be so inclined to even upgrade. And let's not even get into the ridiculous pricing for the Surface Book. >Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate You're right about that one. I've never seen anyone so passionate about creating documents and highlighting them.
- Spivak 10y ago
  > stratospheric pricing put it out of reach for a lot of people Look I'm not exactly a fan of MS but $3000 isn't stratospheric in an era where 'budget' gaming builds are $1000 for just the tower and people are regularly spending $1500 - $2000 for a laptop. The equivalent artist setup with a MacBook Pro, a high end external 4k monitor, and a Wacom drawing tablet will easily set you back $3k.
  - majewsky 10y ago
    Budget gaming builds start at 300-400$. http://www.logicalincrements.com/ http://www.logicalincrements.com/
  - bitmapbrother 10y ago
    Keep in mind, that $3000 price was for the low end model with a mid range CPU and GPU.
Osmium 10y ago
> This event was by far the most disappointing Mac event in the history. I very rarely respond with such a glib comment, but: really? Isn't that slightly hyperbolic? This is very emotive language to describe a completely reasonable and innovative update to a laptop. It was never going to satisfy everyone's needs or wants, especially when some of those wants are not currently physically realistic ("all day battery life" and "even thinner design"?). For myself, as a 2012 rMBP owner, this is a really solid upgrade that I would be delighted to use.
- EugeneOZ 10y ago
  Really? Isn't your response slightly hyperbolic? How much more powerful processor you'll get in 2016 MBPr? Maybe more RAM?
  - Osmium 10y ago
    These things are always personal... for my use case, I do need a quad core CPU and portability, but these CPUs seem like they're the best compromise for speed and TDP that Intel currently offer, so I don't see what else Apple could do there. I also really value the larger track pad, the better screen, and the reduction in weight. So for me it would be a nice upgrade. I can completely see how it wouldn't be suitable for someone else though.
    - EugeneOZ 10y ago
      Ok, now from my point of view: slower CPU (I don't edit video, I don't need 4 cores), new keyboard layout (I don't have any issues with current trackpad), same screen (100% brightness level? never), no USB-A port, no HDMI port (and I hate adapters hell). And 15" version is not even an option because it doesn't have Esc button and F-buttons - I use them every 5 minutes in IDE.
      - EugeneOZ 10y ago
        and I forgot to mention magnetic charger port...
andrepd 10y ago
>A new MacBook with all day battery life and even thinner design. And I want a 700hp car that does 80mpg. Pick one.
- joenathan 10y ago
  You can actually have both, Tesla Model S P100D http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38172 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38172
  - gm-conspiracy 10y ago
    It's funny cuz' it's true.
  - andrepd 10y ago
    You understood my point...
    - joenathan 10y ago
      You understand that your point is flawed? Compromise isn't always necessary! The OP was looking for innovation in this space, similar to say what Tesla did for autos.
      - andrepd 10y ago
        -.- but it is. You can't make thinner devices with more battery. The way battery tech is right now is that to make it thinner you need to sacrifice battery volume and consequently capacity. Nothing short of a major technological breakthrough will change this, and nobody on earth has shown even the slightest signs of having managed to produce a better battery technology, let alone it being ready for consumer tech. So no, my point is not in the least bit flawed.
        PostOnce 10y ago
        20% smaller battery on a device that consumes 50% less power = thinner device and longer battery life.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
2muchcoffeeman 10y ago
I haven't really wanted a new laptop design in a long time. A better announcement would have been "we've consolidated the Mac line and now all models will get their specs bumped regularly". That's all I really want the same laptop or desktop but faster.
Shivetya 10y ago
I think the touch bar is just horrid, its a step backwards if not simply a declaration of being out of touch. Who looks at their keyboard anymore? For a company with so many touch oriented devices the last thing they needed is an extension of the keyboard
- yabatopia 10y ago
  I don't think it's that bad. I can definitely see the benefits for different applications. However, watching the presentation at times the touch bar felt like an elaborate workaround for a full-blown touchscreen. Especially during the dj demo. And with the Microsoft Puck for the Surface Studio still in the back of your head, the touch bar for Photoshop or video editing looked a bit outdated.
- jsz0 10y ago
  I look at my keyboard when I use function keys (no muscle memory) and some symbols I rarely use. Does that make me a bad person? Sorry.
627467 10y ago
The "most disappointing mac event" really? Too young to remember 2006 special event where Mac minis with new intel cpu and the exciting Apple HiFi?
Analemma_ 10y ago
Without taking a side, can I just say that this entire thread is bringing a little tear of nostalgia to my eye? I love that even in 2016-- with all the new companies and platforms and wars, and desktops arguably being the least important battleground-- we can still have an old-fashioned bitter Mac-vs-PC argument thread once in a while, with all the swearing and name-calling, just like when I was on Slashdot in 2003. I love it.
- toyg 10y ago
  Meh, I don't think this is the same. Back then, the PC mainstream looked at Apple buyers like a rabble of fanboys who didn't know what they were buying. And indeed a lot of them were exactly that: artists, musicians and schoolteachers overpaying for hardware in order to get the superior MacOS experience. Today, the mainstream in tech circles is a mob of disgruntled Apple buyers that Cupertino spent decades courting and accumulating with bold moves (like the MBA and the MBPR), who now don't see a reason to stick around. It's a bad trend for Apple.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  Not just Slashdot in 2003. Also Slashdot in 1998, Hacker News in 2008, Usenet in 1988, and all throughout the intervening years and back to the very dawn of recorded history. Sumerians were exchanging angry commentary written on their clay tablets about the virtues of Microsoft, IBM, and Apple computers in the Euphrates swamps six thousand years ago.
- mturmon 10y ago
  I'm glad someone made this comment, although I confess I stopped reading the whole thread after the comment count went above 700 or so, so for all I know there is another like it in the dogpile here. There is something about this topic that really gets the comments going, and I wonder what it is. It's not just Apple vs. Microsoft. It is also Apple vs. what Apple should have done, or Microsoft vs. what its competitors are doing. I propose that a simple A vs. B discussion isn't enough to provoke all this. Today's Apple announcement is being taken as a kind of indirect referendum on the future of nerd-friendly high-end computing hardware as a whole. As you point out, the waning significance of this question (with the rise of phones and tablets) has caused a lot of anxiety out there!
stcredzero 10y ago
- A MacBook pro with some real innovation. They could just copy Microsoft with a detachable screen (oh but they would cannibalize iPad market), pen input, touch screen. But, instead we get this touchbar thing which is great but I am just disappointed that it is the only thing they have innovated here. You know, laptops with a pen input have been around for a long while. Even the convertible kind. I don't think that form factor is fully baked yet. In fact, I have a couple of HP tc1100s from the year 2000. You can still get good use out of them. But as a mass consumer device, they were not a runaway hit. I suspect that Apple has a roadmap for conservatively rolling out more digitally configurable/reactive/touch interfaces on their laptop form factor. They will do this while working off the of strengths of each input device. My bet is that they will come out with e-ink keyboards and some kind of display built into the touchpad, perhaps with a stylus. I would concur with you that this was a disappointing Mac event, however.
- rocky1138 10y ago
  I have a TC1100, too, and loved it. Unfortunately, it broke at the weakest point, where it connects to the keyboard. Any suggestions on fixing it? I feel like it might be a hairline crack in the board.
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    Can you make a good home for mine?
    - rocky1138 10y ago
      Ha! An unexpected response. Thanks, but I've already got enough hardware laying around. I should probably just recycle mine, come to think of it.
drieddust 10y ago
It is being years since Apple did anything innovative yet they are gaining users. Status conscious Chinese and Indians is their new Market and all they want is Apple in their homes and pockets.
- maurycy 10y ago
  This is simply not true: Apple said on Tuesday it saw a nearly 30 percent decline in its China revenue in the quarter ending September, the highest fall among all regions, due to tepid demand for its iconic iPhones. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/tech/2016-10/27/content_27185568.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/tech/2016-10/27/conten...
IgorPartola 10y ago
I don't know about Microsoft, but Apple now has two product launches in a row that failed to introduce anything really new. Especially when it comes to MacBooks, Apple's chief competition isn't even Microsoft. It's their own 1-3 year old products. Why should I upgrade do this new MacBook? It doesn't levitate or make me coffee. With phones it's a little less clear cut because phones getting faster is still worth paying for, but that will slow down at some point. It seems to me that Apple has finally hit their post-Jobs point where the radical innovation is outpaced by the comfort of not changing much and just printing money. Of course it's quite possible that iPhone 7S will in fact hover and make coffee, and they are just having an off year, but somehow I am pessimistic about it.
altern8 10y ago
I've been looking at Dell and Lenovo laptops the whole night after watching the keynote. It's obvious that their priorities and mine are too far off that it doesn't make sense for me to keep waiting for something that I'd like. Their stuff is overpriced compared to other brands, and they keep neglecting most of their product line. The Mac Pro hasn't been updated in 3 years. For this technology, it's an eternity. Buyer's guid has 5 don't buy, 1 buy, 1 neutral. What a joke.
kristianp 10y ago
- Killed Macbook Air. No, only the 11 inch one has been discontinued. The $1000 13 inch Air is still on sale[1], and so popular that I would predict it won't be killed off until the cheapest pro becomes sustantially cheaper than $1500. [1] http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air
- sushiwarrior 10y ago
  1440x900. $1000. Yeah, it's dead.
greggman 10y ago
Was prepared to buy one if it was 2.5lbs for the 15" (or maybe even 3 lbs). Instead it's still 4lbs LG makes a 2 lbs 15 inch. (Not saying I'd buy the LG. Only pointing out Apple has room to do better) I agree it was a very disappointing announcement . Basically more of the same. Nothing new or innovative.
wyclif 10y ago
FWIW, I really, really don't want a detachable screen. Other users might, but if you're a programmer using your MBP as a work machine you just want something that opens and closes with a strong hinge, great battery life, and bulletproof wifi.
tmaly 10y ago
I was still hoping for more than 16GB max memory limit on the MacBook Pro. I still cannot understand in this day and age why they cannot offer more memory than this.
Eridrus 10y ago
I think Microsoft has sensed their weaknesses and has made a change in strategy from focussing on what works for "ordinary people" and segmented their market and is now trying to win over people one segment at a time, developers, gamers, artists. Not sure if they will find more good segments to target, but this is certainly a good strategy for winning over those segments. They obviously have a path to travel, but it seems like a good one to be on.
davidf18 10y ago
Regarding the 15" version, I have the 15" 256 GB Intel Graphics 2015 Model and I really, really, was expecting the same unit with the Skylake processor version of the quad core with the Intel graphics that has the on-board graphics RAM. I was hoping it would be lighter weight and longer battery life. Instead we have the discrete GPUs that undoubtedly will need more battery life than the Intel internal GPU.
cnnx 10y ago
Here's your monitor announcement: https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/28/apple-standalone-displays/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/28/apple-standalone-displays/ It has been written about many times (about Apple's TV business and a rumored Apple TV with an actual screen) that screens, whether monitor or TV are actually very dumb, it makes no sense whatsoever for today's Apple to be in the business of making dumb screens, while their main business is value-added products. So, they passed on the opportunity to make the 'Apple monitor' to their main supplier of LCD screens, LG. Fair enough.

FireBeyond 10y ago

16GB max. No iMac update. No Mac Pro update. Buyer's Guide on MacRumors now: "iMac: Might as well buy. Nothing on the horizon." "Mac Pro: Buy. If you like paying 2013 prices for 2013 hardware."

yuhong 10y ago
Looks like they still use LPDDR3, with no 32GB option even in the 15-inch. I wonder if they want to go to LPDDR4 when Intel supports it.
- op00to 10y ago
  What do you need 32GB for? Not saying you don't, but what's the use case vs. using someone else's cloud machine in a datacenter?
  - walterbell 10y ago
    Virtual machines Edit: for comparison, Lenovo T460p can be configured with quad-core i7, Nvidia GPU, 32GB RAM, 1 SSD + 1 HD/SSD, replaceable battery, 1.9mm key travel, base starts at $800 with many components user-replaceable, http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t460p/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t460p...
    - sliverstorm 10y ago
      Has much work been done on truly memory-light virtual machines? It seems like a really big opportunity, even if it's really hard.
      - tonylemesmer 10y ago
        Yeah if someone worked out how to use less memory in a VM we could use it in normal machines too ;)
      - walterbell 10y ago
        Unikernels are one area of research, http://unikernel.org http://unikernel.org
      - _joel 10y ago
        It's not that it's hard, it's just the logistics of running the virtual machines(s) and the applications they contain. You could use a minimal linux distro like Alpine or Tiny Core, but you still need to run applications on top of that if you're testing or developing. Spinning up a basic devstack instance (for example) take a minimum of 6GB and that's before you even deploy any test vms inside that infrastructure. Another example, if you're doing config management development you may need several VMs running which in turn may have (say) large java apps with heavy memory requirements even when fairly unladen. So, I guess the answer is, it depends on what you're doing and what the memory requirements of the thing you're running on VMs is.
      - Sanddancer 10y ago
        Hyper-V has dynamic memory, so memory resources can be reallocated as needed, and has driver hooks so that linux vms can be resized too. There's also Intel's clear containers push which virtualizes for linux but shares a lot of kernel structures between the host and the VM.
- vegabook 10y ago
  No 32gb? Is this true? Someone please tell me that's not true. I was (against all odds), hoping for 64! If this is true, consider me disgusted. I had 16GB in my (long lost, loved) 17-inch Macbook Pro, in 2009! I really cannot fathom what this company is thinking. I'm bewildered, disappointed, angry, in equal measure. I've been waiting for a killer Macbook Pro for literally 18 months! Sorry. I'm going Lenovo/Dell or why not, Surface Studio. For the first time in 20 years. I'm going Windows. I will not support a company which insults me with this. If this is Jony Ive's work, if they are so self-confident in their "design" that they cannot put a decent hardware spec together, then these people need to be retired. Or maybe I just haven't cottoned on? They just don't care about high end users? Or are they completely out of touch? I don't understand.
  - gommm 10y ago
    Yep that's the one thing that pisses me off to no end.
    - vegabook 10y ago
      I just don't understand. The chips have been available for 12 months. It's almost like they're doing it on purpose.
      - yuhong 10y ago
        Hence why I mention that they are still using LPDDR3, which they even left out of the keynote. The major alternative would be using DDR4 I think.
        vegabook 10y ago
        It's basically an insult.
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    Given that 99% of users don't require more than 8GB in a MacLaptop, it's hard to justify increasing the maximum ram beyond 16 GB for that fraction of 1% of users who do. Not impossible, mind you - because there is always value in chasing after the 1%, but to some degree, Apple's efficiency at running their operating system and applications on small memory footprints makes it less valuable to increase their maximum ram footprint.
talmand 10y ago
>> 16GB max. I was going to say you were wrong because it was stated "starts at 16GB" near the end of the event. Checked the store and sure enough, I see no way to increase the RAM. That's just stupid.
- yuhong 10y ago
  They even left the fact that it is still LPDDR3 out of the keynote. It was the first question I was thinking of. I wonder when Intel will support LPDDR4.
  - shrewduser 10y ago
    holy hell :|
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    LPDDR4 is supported by some Intel CPU's but overall memory support across intel CPU's is pretty inconsistent for no apparent reason since they are all based on the same core design. That said you won't see any difference in performance between LPDDR3 @ 2133 mhz and LPDDR4 at 2000-2400mhz.
    - yuhong 10y ago
      I was thinking of for example https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-rolls-out-industrys-first-8gb-lpddr4-dram-package https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-rolls-out-industrys-...
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        It's likely not even in full production since the roll out was announced a week ago. Also no where does it says the speed and bandwidth they'll support, overall there isn't much performance difference between LPDDR3 or 4, or between DDR3 and 4 when the frequencies are off by only a few 100's of mhz. That said I'm actually disappointed that the memory on the MBP especially the 15" is LPDDR, no reason to degrade memory performance on a machine which already has a pretty big battery, DDR4 is pretty darn power efficient as it is. This to me looks more like another cost cutting decision set by Apple to simplify board design and the supply chain. No 7th gen CPU's, low power memory for no reason, dumping of ports, and a pretty steep price hike. I'm glad I bought my mid 2015 pretty fully upgraded MBP 15 with a dedicated GPU for 1480 GBP on sale last holiday season, this one is not even meh, it's a full on pass, the only feature I like is the touch ID, I still don't understand why Apple doesn't allow you to unlock your Mac with your phone, but now I know why.
wineisfine 10y ago
What I absolutely do not comprehend: is it so difficult to upgrade the Mac Pro's? Isn't it a matter of just adding more powerful hardware to it? Like I did myself back in the days, when I built my own PCs. But then in mass production? It just feels lazy from Apple.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  The answer in one word: margins. Adding expensive hardware (or as you call it, more powerful hardware) to your BOM will cut into your margins.
Analemma_ 10y ago
> Mac Pro: Buy. If you like paying 2013 prices for 2013 hardware. It's even worse than that, if you're in the UK: the price of the 2013 Mac Pro has gone up by £500. Yes yes, Brexit and currency adjustment, and if it were new hardware I'd clench my teeth and bear it. But a £500 increase for hardware that's almost three years old is highway robbery.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dogma1138 10y ago
  The hardware is technically 7-9 years old since the Mac Pro was outdated when it came out. The newest Mac Pro used a Bloomfield CPU (2008) or a Westmere one (2010) and a circa 2009 GPU.
- drcross 10y ago
  One word- hackintosh.
  - tspike 10y ago
    How well does that work in practice? I've heard so-so things.
    - x0x0 10y ago
      I was looking into it, and the answer seems to be fine if you (1) don't reuse hardware -- just buy exactly the components on tonymacx86; (2) don't install OS updates on release but wait until people have figured out how well they work and tweaked the hackintosh software; (3) are willing to suffer some pain around making imessage work. edit: the key to a good experience seemed to be finding a working configuration then leaving it alone. If you want to update the OS regularly, you'll probably be unhappy.
    - kybernetyk 10y ago
      Turned my gaming PC into a Hackintosh because games became boring. I'm amazed at how easy that went down. Installing OS X took only a little longer than on my native Macs. I just had to tick a few checkmarks in the Hackintosh post-install software to customize for my setup. OS X 10.11 updates I could install as soon as they were available from Apple. No problems at all. (I of course checked the appropriate forums for compatibility notes but there never were any problems reported). Haven't installed 10.12 yet (as I'm not too thrilled by the OS on my MBP anyways) but I heard it works just fine on Hackintoshes. Now the caveats: I disabled the onboard audio and attached external USB speakers instead. Because onboard audio seems to be more broken than not and USB audio "just works". I'm also connecting the machine via ethernet and don't have a WiFi adapter attached. Oh, and I got lucky in the first place by choosing OS X compatible hardware (Intel CPU, ASRock mainboard, AMD GPU). Things that doen't work: Browser DRM with Safari. I can't watch Netflix on the machine. iMessage support is cumbersome. And I can't submit binaries to the app store from the machine. But otherwise for work it's a beast (compile times are great compared to my MBP) :) As long as you use Intel CPU/AMD GPU you're golden. Intel's HD GPUs work, too. Nvidia GPUs need 3rd party drivers from Nvidia.
znpy 10y ago
> 16GB max You can have 16 GB ram on a 2011 ThinkPad X220. Just saying.
- adamors 10y ago
  I think a W500 could already handle 16GB.

rayiner 10y ago

> Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday. Did we watch the same event? Microsoft introduced a $3,000 desktop PC in an era when nobody uses desktops anymore. It introduced a minor update to the Surface Book that starts at $2,300 with dual-core CPU, only 8GB of RAM, and last-gen graphics hardware. For the same price as the new Surface Book i7, I can get an MBP 15" with bigger screen, twice the RAM, and a quad-core CPU, and it's Microsoft that hit it out of the park?!

gxs 10y ago
Welcome to the world - a place where perception matters more than reality. This is why every single company has giant marketing departments and this perception informs so many of our decisions both consciously and unconsciously. This is the real danger that apple is in - that how it's perceived is changing even if its products continue to be superior.
untog 10y ago
The Surface Studio isn't really just a desktop PC - the whole swivel stand and touch-screen thing makes it a really interesting proposition for people who do a lot of creative and design work. No, it's not mass market, but it is a lot more interesting than anything we saw today.
gambiting 10y ago
I'm pretty sure our office of 300 people only has desktops in, so saying that no one uses desktops is a bit much,no? Also, all of our artists(~80) have the CintiQ 24" Tablets, which can now be replaced by the Surface Desktop. It's a fantastic device, if you have a use case for it.
lloyd-christmas 10y ago
> in an era when nobody uses desktops anymore. A lot of people have desktops, myself included. I'm not really sure where you got such an impression.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> A lot of people have desktops, myself included. I'm not really sure where you got such an impression. Not just that... If nobody uses desktops, why would Apple waste so much engineering and design resources on something like the iMac if there's no market?

ryaneager 10y ago

-No Mac Mini Update. I was hoping to get one that supported multiple 4k displays. With the title of "Mac Event" I was anticipating at least 2 Macs updated, not just the MBP.

walterbell 10y ago
Try Lenovo m900 Tiny, 32GB, up to 3 displays, http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-tiny/m900/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-t... & http://psref.lenovo.com/syspool%5CSys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkCentre%20M900%20Tiny/ThinkCentre%20M900%20Tiny.pdf http://psref.lenovo.com/syspool%5CSys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkC...
slantyyz 10y ago
>> With the title of "Mac Event" I was anticipating at least 2 Macs updated, not just the MBP. That the first 25 minutes of the event were non-Mac preamble adds salt to that wound.
3chelon 10y ago
They killed the Mac Mini when they stopped making it upgradeable. They can kind of get away with that with the Macbooks because of the form factor, but there's no excuse with a Mini. I'm hanging on to my late 2012 model. Specced out to the max and with a hybrid drive, it still boots faster than my more recent rMBP.
nicky0 10y ago
The title was "hello again", it being a Mac event was purely speculation.

grub5000 10y ago

I cringed when Apple's event started with a video claiming how great their products are for disabled people, just the same as Microsoft did the day before. I don't recall either of them then going on to build on that with any product/feature announcements...

DerekL 10y ago
What exactly are you looking for that they aren't making? I don't know about Windows, but Macintosh and iOS have all sorts of software features for accessibility, and they've had for years.
- eric_h 10y ago
  > Macintosh and iOS have all sorts of software features for accessibility, and they've had for years Yup, I remember seeing a blind guy on the subway using voiceover on an iPhone 3g (that would be the second iPhone ever) - totally blew my mind at how adeptly he was able to use the thing.
tedmiston 10y ago
The accessibility features in iOS go very deep. Without a doubt they are one of the best computer manufacturers in that market.
SysArchitect 10y ago
I had a friend in uni that was blind. He used a Mac for all of his work because he said, and I quote "It's the most beautiful OS I have seen". He wasn't just legally blind, he had absolutely no vision what so ever... but with the voiceover technology and the accessibility built in to OS X 10.4 at the time it was already amazing to him. Apple has worked very hard to make iOS and OS X accessible to not just those with perfect vision or perfect control, but also those with various disabilities.
- toyg 10y ago
  And now, they make a huge step back by launching an unaccessible touchbar that removes real keys, hence removing options for your friend. Yay, progress.

crooked-v 10y ago

The overlap between the Macbook, Macbook Air, and old and new Macbook Pro lines now is painfully weird. https://gist.github.com/icopp/29f225279a39ba9e3ea0d1f596e97cea https://gist.github.com/icopp/29f225279a39ba9e3ea0d1f596e97c... I'm getting serious shades of "IBM clone vendor throwing darts at a board to try to appeal to every possible price point" instead of coherent product lines here.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
My guess is it's a transitional period. The new low-end 13″ MacBook Pro, the new 12″ MacBook, and the outdated 11″ and 13″ MacBook Air probably ought not to coexist. But the MacBook Air is important to Apple as their entry-level (i.e. cheapest) laptop, and the MacBook is still too expensive and not quite featureful enough to replace it. I think Apple would like to drop the MacBook Air in favour of a cheaper MacBook at some point, but they can't right now.
yuhong 10y ago
I was wondering what would happen if Intel bought Compaq back in 1991 (when Rod Canion and Jim Harris was still at Compaq) for a while now. Intel has a high profit margin too, and Compaq had higher profit margin back in 1991. Even back in the late 1990s laptops still had a higher profit margin, and laptop theft was more common in these days. Anyone remember the Apple price increases in 1988? Particularly for the Mac II it was worse.
jimbokun 10y ago
You could just as well have said: "Apple throwing darts at a board to try to appeal to every possible price point just before Steve Jobs returned"
- yuhong 10y ago
  I was for a while thinking of the case where Apple bought NeXT, but Gil Amelio and later Ellen Hancock stayed as CEO. While PC margins was declining, I was thinking that Apple could mostly focus on the higher-end PC and workstation markets. I wonder how this would have compared to Tim Cook today.

IMcD23 10y ago

> No monitor announcement They announced a 5k monitor that they developed with LG which charges the MBP. You can attach devices to that and it's like a "hub".

tedmiston 10y ago
Perusing their website makes it appear that they have killed off the Apple Thunderbolt Display.
- jeffmould 10y ago
  Apple discontinued Thunderbolt displays sometime beginning to early part of the year.
Roritharr 10y ago
I really would like to know if a XPS 13 can drive it.

debt 10y ago

idk seems very impressive to me. engineering is v hard so much respect to the teams at apple for continually pushing consumer electronics to the state of the art. i think it's pretty obvious the macbooks aren't the big money makers at apple. that lil apple pay button is there to subsidize and justify continued development of the mac. apple probably wants to kill the mac. but some guy at apple's like what if we put a lil thumb scanner on it and apple pay then can we keep it pls and then the cfo was like sure okay fine the mac can stay only if you add an apply pay button. also pretty sure all-day battery life isn't innovation and thus probably not what they're working on. how about eternal battery life wherein a solar panel so efficient is able to pull light even in the darkest of situations. how about remote charging. i'm sick of charging shit. that's what's next, no charging.

jorts 10y ago

Having personally met Panos Panay as a fellow groomsman at a friend's wedding, I can tell you that guy is full of energy and passion. He's the type of person that brightens up a room given he's so fun and enthusiastic.

pfg 10y ago

> - No iMac update (!!!). iMacs were refreshed in late 2015. It's typically ~3 years between new generations, often with a hardware refresh somewhere in between. Nothing new here. > - No monitor announcement. They partnered with LG (I think?) on a 5k monitor. Sounds like a reasonable replacement for the Thunderbolt Display.

acdha 10y ago
> iMacs were refreshed in late 2015. It's typically ~3 years between new generations, often with a hardware refresh somewhere in between. Nothing new here. http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac shows the days between releases in the past: 147 May 2015 215 Oct 2014 387 Sep 2013 298 Nov 2012 577 May 2011 280 Jul 2010 We're currently 380 days since the last release, which is on the long side other than the one 2010-2011 outlier. I don't think anyone expects Apple to ship radically different hardware designs every year but they desperately need a tick-tock strategy which ships identical cases with non-obsolete components if they expect anyone outside of the die-hard Mac fans to keep buying.
- pfg 10y ago
  This might have made sense a couple of years ago, but I don't think desktop hardware is advancing at a rate where yearly updates are a must. This seems even more true for typical Mac use-cases where users don't quite care as much about gaming performance. Intel deprecated tick-tock for a reason, so I don't think it would make sense for Apple to adopt that strategy now.
  - acdha 10y ago
    I don't think it needs to be a rigid update every year but they should have a policy of not staying more than one generation behind. The 5K iMac jumped to Skylake, so that's fine, but the rest of the iMac line is stuck on Broadwell, the Mac Mini is Haswell, and the Mac Pro is Ivy Bridge. The solid industrial design, long service life, etc. are worth something but probably not 3-4 hardware generations, especially for the premium market Apple wants to be in. The PC market hasn't been completely stagnant and while nobody is buying a Mac for super hard-core gaming they really don't want to be in a position where someone drops a fair amount of cash and their new computer struggles with a game which came out a year or two back, 4K video playback, etc.

oldmanjay 10y ago

> Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate and knowledgeable whereas Jony Ive sounds like an Evangelical designer who feels "fake". I don't know how to explain it. It's called "bias"

TheRealDunkirk 10y ago

> Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate and knowledgeable He was definitely the best part of the production. They should use him for a lot more in the future.

bitmapbrother 10y ago

>Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday Hmmm, you make it sound as if the Microsoft event was a home run - it wasn't. The Surface Studio was interesting, but it's clearly aimed for graphic professionals and its stratospheric pricing put it out of reach for a lot of people. As for the Surface Book, well, considering all of the issues they've had with the previous version I'm not sure people will be so inclined to even upgrade. And let's not even get into the ridiculous pricing for the Surface Book. >Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate You're right about that one. I've never seen anyone so passionate about creating documents and highlighting them.

Spivak 10y ago
> stratospheric pricing put it out of reach for a lot of people Look I'm not exactly a fan of MS but $3000 isn't stratospheric in an era where 'budget' gaming builds are $1000 for just the tower and people are regularly spending $1500 - $2000 for a laptop. The equivalent artist setup with a MacBook Pro, a high end external 4k monitor, and a Wacom drawing tablet will easily set you back $3k.
- majewsky 10y ago
  Budget gaming builds start at 300-400$. http://www.logicalincrements.com/ http://www.logicalincrements.com/
- bitmapbrother 10y ago
  Keep in mind, that $3000 price was for the low end model with a mid range CPU and GPU.

Osmium 10y ago

> This event was by far the most disappointing Mac event in the history. I very rarely respond with such a glib comment, but: really? Isn't that slightly hyperbolic? This is very emotive language to describe a completely reasonable and innovative update to a laptop. It was never going to satisfy everyone's needs or wants, especially when some of those wants are not currently physically realistic ("all day battery life" and "even thinner design"?). For myself, as a 2012 rMBP owner, this is a really solid upgrade that I would be delighted to use.

EugeneOZ 10y ago
Really? Isn't your response slightly hyperbolic? How much more powerful processor you'll get in 2016 MBPr? Maybe more RAM?
- Osmium 10y ago
  These things are always personal... for my use case, I do need a quad core CPU and portability, but these CPUs seem like they're the best compromise for speed and TDP that Intel currently offer, so I don't see what else Apple could do there. I also really value the larger track pad, the better screen, and the reduction in weight. So for me it would be a nice upgrade. I can completely see how it wouldn't be suitable for someone else though.
  - EugeneOZ 10y ago
    Ok, now from my point of view: slower CPU (I don't edit video, I don't need 4 cores), new keyboard layout (I don't have any issues with current trackpad), same screen (100% brightness level? never), no USB-A port, no HDMI port (and I hate adapters hell). And 15" version is not even an option because it doesn't have Esc button and F-buttons - I use them every 5 minutes in IDE.
    - EugeneOZ 10y ago
      and I forgot to mention magnetic charger port...

andrepd 10y ago

>A new MacBook with all day battery life and even thinner design. And I want a 700hp car that does 80mpg. Pick one.

joenathan 10y ago
You can actually have both, Tesla Model S P100D http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38172 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38172
- gm-conspiracy 10y ago
  It's funny cuz' it's true.
- andrepd 10y ago
  You understood my point...
  - joenathan 10y ago
    You understand that your point is flawed? Compromise isn't always necessary! The OP was looking for innovation in this space, similar to say what Tesla did for autos.
    - andrepd 10y ago
      -.- but it is. You can't make thinner devices with more battery. The way battery tech is right now is that to make it thinner you need to sacrifice battery volume and consequently capacity. Nothing short of a major technological breakthrough will change this, and nobody on earth has shown even the slightest signs of having managed to produce a better battery technology, let alone it being ready for consumer tech. So no, my point is not in the least bit flawed.
      - PostOnce 10y ago
        20% smaller battery on a device that consumes 50% less power = thinner device and longer battery life.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

2muchcoffeeman 10y ago

I haven't really wanted a new laptop design in a long time. A better announcement would have been "we've consolidated the Mac line and now all models will get their specs bumped regularly". That's all I really want the same laptop or desktop but faster.

Shivetya 10y ago

I think the touch bar is just horrid, its a step backwards if not simply a declaration of being out of touch. Who looks at their keyboard anymore? For a company with so many touch oriented devices the last thing they needed is an extension of the keyboard

yabatopia 10y ago
I don't think it's that bad. I can definitely see the benefits for different applications. However, watching the presentation at times the touch bar felt like an elaborate workaround for a full-blown touchscreen. Especially during the dj demo. And with the Microsoft Puck for the Surface Studio still in the back of your head, the touch bar for Photoshop or video editing looked a bit outdated.
jsz0 10y ago
I look at my keyboard when I use function keys (no muscle memory) and some symbols I rarely use. Does that make me a bad person? Sorry.

627467 10y ago

The "most disappointing mac event" really? Too young to remember 2006 special event where Mac minis with new intel cpu and the exciting Apple HiFi?

Analemma_ 10y ago

Without taking a side, can I just say that this entire thread is bringing a little tear of nostalgia to my eye? I love that even in 2016-- with all the new companies and platforms and wars, and desktops arguably being the least important battleground-- we can still have an old-fashioned bitter Mac-vs-PC argument thread once in a while, with all the swearing and name-calling, just like when I was on Slashdot in 2003. I love it.

toyg 10y ago
Meh, I don't think this is the same. Back then, the PC mainstream looked at Apple buyers like a rabble of fanboys who didn't know what they were buying. And indeed a lot of them were exactly that: artists, musicians and schoolteachers overpaying for hardware in order to get the superior MacOS experience. Today, the mainstream in tech circles is a mob of disgruntled Apple buyers that Cupertino spent decades courting and accumulating with bold moves (like the MBA and the MBPR), who now don't see a reason to stick around. It's a bad trend for Apple.
WildUtah 10y ago
Not just Slashdot in 2003. Also Slashdot in 1998, Hacker News in 2008, Usenet in 1988, and all throughout the intervening years and back to the very dawn of recorded history. Sumerians were exchanging angry commentary written on their clay tablets about the virtues of Microsoft, IBM, and Apple computers in the Euphrates swamps six thousand years ago.
mturmon 10y ago
I'm glad someone made this comment, although I confess I stopped reading the whole thread after the comment count went above 700 or so, so for all I know there is another like it in the dogpile here. There is something about this topic that really gets the comments going, and I wonder what it is. It's not just Apple vs. Microsoft. It is also Apple vs. what Apple should have done, or Microsoft vs. what its competitors are doing. I propose that a simple A vs. B discussion isn't enough to provoke all this. Today's Apple announcement is being taken as a kind of indirect referendum on the future of nerd-friendly high-end computing hardware as a whole. As you point out, the waning significance of this question (with the rise of phones and tablets) has caused a lot of anxiety out there!

stcredzero 10y ago

- A MacBook pro with some real innovation. They could just copy Microsoft with a detachable screen (oh but they would cannibalize iPad market), pen input, touch screen. But, instead we get this touchbar thing which is great but I am just disappointed that it is the only thing they have innovated here. You know, laptops with a pen input have been around for a long while. Even the convertible kind. I don't think that form factor is fully baked yet. In fact, I have a couple of HP tc1100s from the year 2000. You can still get good use out of them. But as a mass consumer device, they were not a runaway hit. I suspect that Apple has a roadmap for conservatively rolling out more digitally configurable/reactive/touch interfaces on their laptop form factor. They will do this while working off the of strengths of each input device. My bet is that they will come out with e-ink keyboards and some kind of display built into the touchpad, perhaps with a stylus. I would concur with you that this was a disappointing Mac event, however.

rocky1138 10y ago
I have a TC1100, too, and loved it. Unfortunately, it broke at the weakest point, where it connects to the keyboard. Any suggestions on fixing it? I feel like it might be a hairline crack in the board.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  Can you make a good home for mine?
  - rocky1138 10y ago
    Ha! An unexpected response. Thanks, but I've already got enough hardware laying around. I should probably just recycle mine, come to think of it.

drieddust 10y ago

It is being years since Apple did anything innovative yet they are gaining users. Status conscious Chinese and Indians is their new Market and all they want is Apple in their homes and pockets.

maurycy 10y ago
This is simply not true: Apple said on Tuesday it saw a nearly 30 percent decline in its China revenue in the quarter ending September, the highest fall among all regions, due to tepid demand for its iconic iPhones. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/tech/2016-10/27/content_27185568.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/tech/2016-10/27/conten...

IgorPartola 10y ago

I don't know about Microsoft, but Apple now has two product launches in a row that failed to introduce anything really new. Especially when it comes to MacBooks, Apple's chief competition isn't even Microsoft. It's their own 1-3 year old products. Why should I upgrade do this new MacBook? It doesn't levitate or make me coffee. With phones it's a little less clear cut because phones getting faster is still worth paying for, but that will slow down at some point. It seems to me that Apple has finally hit their post-Jobs point where the radical innovation is outpaced by the comfort of not changing much and just printing money. Of course it's quite possible that iPhone 7S will in fact hover and make coffee, and they are just having an off year, but somehow I am pessimistic about it.

altern8 10y ago

I've been looking at Dell and Lenovo laptops the whole night after watching the keynote. It's obvious that their priorities and mine are too far off that it doesn't make sense for me to keep waiting for something that I'd like. Their stuff is overpriced compared to other brands, and they keep neglecting most of their product line. The Mac Pro hasn't been updated in 3 years. For this technology, it's an eternity. Buyer's guid has 5 don't buy, 1 buy, 1 neutral. What a joke.

kristianp 10y ago

- Killed Macbook Air. No, only the 11 inch one has been discontinued. The $1000 13 inch Air is still on sale[1], and so popular that I would predict it won't be killed off until the cheapest pro becomes sustantially cheaper than $1500. [1] http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air

sushiwarrior 10y ago
1440x900. $1000. Yeah, it's dead.

greggman 10y ago

Was prepared to buy one if it was 2.5lbs for the 15" (or maybe even 3 lbs). Instead it's still 4lbs LG makes a 2 lbs 15 inch. (Not saying I'd buy the LG. Only pointing out Apple has room to do better) I agree it was a very disappointing announcement . Basically more of the same. Nothing new or innovative.

wyclif 10y ago

FWIW, I really, really don't want a detachable screen. Other users might, but if you're a programmer using your MBP as a work machine you just want something that opens and closes with a strong hinge, great battery life, and bulletproof wifi.

tmaly 10y ago

I was still hoping for more than 16GB max memory limit on the MacBook Pro. I still cannot understand in this day and age why they cannot offer more memory than this.

Eridrus 10y ago

I think Microsoft has sensed their weaknesses and has made a change in strategy from focussing on what works for "ordinary people" and segmented their market and is now trying to win over people one segment at a time, developers, gamers, artists. Not sure if they will find more good segments to target, but this is certainly a good strategy for winning over those segments. They obviously have a path to travel, but it seems like a good one to be on.

davidf18 10y ago

Regarding the 15" version, I have the 15" 256 GB Intel Graphics 2015 Model and I really, really, was expecting the same unit with the Skylake processor version of the quad core with the Intel graphics that has the on-board graphics RAM. I was hoping it would be lighter weight and longer battery life. Instead we have the discrete GPUs that undoubtedly will need more battery life than the Intel internal GPU.

cnnx 10y ago

Here's your monitor announcement: https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/28/apple-standalone-displays/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/28/apple-standalone-displays/ It has been written about many times (about Apple's TV business and a rumored Apple TV with an actual screen) that screens, whether monitor or TV are actually very dumb, it makes no sense whatsoever for today's Apple to be in the business of making dumb screens, while their main business is value-added products. So, they passed on the opportunity to make the 'Apple monitor' to their main supplier of LCD screens, LG. Fair enough.