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That's why EU people are protesting against TTIP. We're worried that the lower standards that are common in USA, will prevail, and any resistance will be trampl

That's why EU people are protesting against TTIP. We're worried that the lower standards that are common in USA, will prevail, and any resistance will be trampled in private arbitrage courts.

foota 10y ago
Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me, why would the quality of food there decrease?
- gambiting 10y ago
  Because in the EU there are laws that say that if something is labeled as virgin olive oil, it has to be olive oil and nothing else. Greek Yoghurt has to be made in Greece and nowhere else. Lobster meat has to be lobster meat, and Kobe beef absolutely has to be Kobe beef. TTIP basically(in extreme simplification) says that if something is allowed in US it should be allowed in any other signatory country - which would obviously lower our standards as they are much higher than those in US.
  - culturestate 10y ago
    This is a great argument to whip people into a frenzy, but it's a little bit of a straw man. The US has labeling laws as well - it's not that the government doesn't care, it's that they're nearly impossible to enforce at scale. Without genetic analysis of literally every shipment, how is a regulatory authority to know what's what if the paperwork is otherwise "in order?"
    - DasIch 10y ago
      If you can't increase the number of tests, increase the punishment and let it affect the entire chain from supermarket to producer. You want being found guilty of a violation to be a nightmare scenario that will end people's careers and entire companies.
    - zzen 10y ago
      Look, as somebody that's lived many years in Europe and in US, the situation is incomparable. I don't know why - either you have crappy laws, or you have crappy enforcement. If you read the article, it claims both. The FDA has super-low requirements to do anything - and manages to do even less than required to. The european market is significantly bigger than US one (380m people) but manages to have much better labeling standards.
      - culturestate 10y ago
        The reality, as in so many other areas with regard to the US, is crappy enforcement. If inspection authority was enforced at the state level (while still being funded by the federal government) I suspect you'd see much greater results.
    - kbart 10y ago
      EU does enforce food safety and labeling laws quite well. That might be because every EU country has its own FDA equivalent that provisions much smaller market. Sure, incidents happen, but fake food is nowhere such widespread in EU than USA.
      - thaumasiotes 10y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal
        kbart 10y ago
        As I said - incidents happen. And if the last scandal you have found is dated back to 2013, that only confirms my point.
        thaumasiotes 10y ago
        Sorry, I thought you were claiming that fake food was not widespread. ("because every EU country has its own FDA equivalent that provisions much smaller market") > if the last scandal you have found is dated back to 2013, that only confirms my point. Words fail me at your reasoning. How closely do you think I follow foreign food purity issues?
        chappi42 10y ago
        Well if you don't follow foreign food purity issues (closely) then, please, try to comment a little bit more humble. Maybe asking instead of definitive statements?
        anexprogrammer 10y ago
        The point is, which many commenters seem to be missing, is UK Trading Standards and equivalent EU bodies regularly test to see that foods meet claimed ingredients and are not adulterated. Prosecutions, sanctions and bans are frequent. The periodic outrages are relatively rare and become front page news. If you claim on the label that your product is 52% tuna it can be (and frequently is) randomly tested and if it's not tuna, or 52% you can be open to prosecution. By the sounds of the US system you're probably eating horse regularly, but no one ever tests to establish this. In the case of the UK, austerity has resulted in Trading Standards being stretched to breaking point or beyond as funding has sunk way below actual need. Presumably the Tories will soon point to this as proof that a state owned system cannot work so let's privatise it. Brexit leaves me deeply concerned the UK will resemble the US more.
    - Dolores12 10y ago
      In USA you need not label GMO food as GMO. [1] Because "The FDA has determined that the fish is as safe and nutritious as nongenetically modified fish, and will therefore not require the company or retailers to label the fish as genetically engineered." [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/19/fda-approves-genetically-modified-fish-no-label-needed.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/19/fda-approves-genetically-modi...
      - ptaipale 10y ago
        Which is fine (I say as European). Requiring GMO labeling is is about as sensible as requiring DHMO labeling - it's scaremongering not based on science.
        Dolores12 10y ago
        No, it is not fine with me. I have to have ability to make informed decision.
        mickronome 10y ago
        While I tend to agree that the actual food is probably safe , there are several valid ideological justifications for such labeling. I would also support seed variety labeling wherever it is reasomably practical, as consumer choice can only be choice if fact are available. The history should also have taught us that if the industry tries to avoid labeling, they should generally be required labeling. They are likely not afraid of ink expenditures, rather they want to sell me one thing and tell me it is something slightly different, for profit.
        CalRobert 10y ago
        Perhaps I choose not to buy GMO's because I find the notion of patenting the mechanics of life philosophically troubling. We're not all a bunch of anti-science luddites, you know.
        sampo 10y ago
        If you think only GMO varieties are patented, you are very ill informed. For example, google 'BASF clearfield'.
  - foota 10y ago
    Okay, thank you. I'll have to read a summary of the thing so that I know more.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    > Greek Yoghurt has to be made in Greece and nowhere else. This is a really stupid regulation though. It's just protectionism for Greece, like the regulation that you can't call it "champagne" unless the grapes were grown in Champagne, France. There is no reason to expect this; consider Cheddar cheese, Peking duck, French toast, and Hamburgers.
    - gambiting 10y ago
      I don't see it as stupid at all! To me, Greek Yoghurt has to come from greece, that's what I expect as a customer. Any non-Greek Greek yoghurt is simply labeled as "Greek-style Yoghurt" and that's easy enough, when I go to the shop I know exactly what I'm getting.
      - thaumasiotes 10y ago
        > To me, Greek Yoghurt has to come from greece, that's what I expect as a customer. Why do you expect that? It can't be based on the name, since virtually all foods with an origin name were not actually made there. I'm pretty sure you don't expect Cheddar cheese to have come from Cheddar? Would you accept ordinary yoghurt that was imported from Greece being sold as "Greek Yoghurt"? If I imported Camembert cheese from Cheddar, it would still be Camembert. If I imported Cheddar cheese from Hong Kong, it would be Cheddar. French toast sold at a Denny's in New Mexico was made in New Mexico, not France. Peking duck is duck prepared in a style characteristic of Peking, not any duck prepared in whatever style but sold in Peking. And Greek yoghurt is yoghurt prepared in a style characteristic of a Greek company that decided to sell thickened, sweetened yoghurt.
        DasIch 10y ago
        You can expect that because EU regulation requires it to be that way.
        thaumasiotes 10y ago
        If that's the reason you expect it, the regulation is the sole justification for its own existence. I feel quite comfortable calling that "stupid".
  - nitwit005 10y ago
    It's generally suggested here in the US that you buy olive oil labeled as being from California, as the Italian labels are often adulterated or mislabeled. The periodic scandals out of Italy seem to support that view: http://www.eater.com/2016/6/30/12070668/olive-oil-fraud-italy-fines-bertolli http://www.eater.com/2016/6/30/12070668/olive-oil-fraud-ital...
    - pcrh 10y ago
      Isn't that a problem with US regulations and enforcement, rather than EU ones?
      - evgen 10y ago
        It is a problem with US regulators assuming that EU regulations are something more than scams to bid up the price of olive oils by claiming they came from a particular region (usually one that makes some bogus terrior claim) when in fact they do not. If the EU cannot enforce its own vaunted food regulations then I suppose the US should just stop accepting any claims regarding food provenance and dispense with any DOP compliance whatsoever...
        pcrh 10y ago
        Most likely the oil is shipped in large containers and bottled in the US. So the labeling will fall under US jurisdiction, not EU.
  - adrr 10y ago
    EU laws aren't being enforced. All the fake olive oil is coming out of Italy. If you want real virgin olive oil in the US, you have to buy the California ones. It was also reported that Kobe beef was being sold at European restaurants even when Europe had a ban on Japanese meats during the Mad Cow Scare. Those are things just off the top of my head, i bet if you actually dug in, Europe has many examples of where fake products are sold. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/#740295075e0c http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-...
    - ricksplat 10y ago
      I don't think you can say that just because rules are being broken, that is a case for them being repealed.
      - stephenr 10y ago
        It's the default American approach to assume that a failed implementation equals a failure of a concept.
        ricksplat 10y ago
        To be fair to our American friends it's not solely their bias; a lot of the pro-Brexit voters have a similar feeling about the EU.
        tremon 10y ago
        You don't really know how many of the voters voted against the implementation, and how many voted against the concept, do you?
        ricksplat 10y ago
        No, but going by the commentary, and voxpops, I can safely assume "a lot", which is what I said and meant.
- DasIch 10y ago
  Free trade requires harmonized regulation. If the EU adopts the less strict US regulations, the quality of food decreases.
- misja111 10y ago
  Because TTIP is heavily influenced by the lobbying of big multinationals, the Monsanto's and the likes. As a result it favors the big food companies over small local producers. Eventually TTIP will lead to less local variety of food products and more food that is imported and therefore less fresh.
  - sampo 10y ago
    > the Monsanto's and the likes Monsanto is an agrichemical and seeds company. It is not in the food business. I know 'Monsanto' is sometimes used as a general synonym for 'evil company', but this is somewhat inappropriate.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      1. Monsanto wants the food grown with its seeds to be sold more. 2. TTIP is enormously encompassing, about far more than food. 3. A cursory search will show lobbying by Monsanto for TTIP.
    - ricksplat 10y ago
      and the like Currently under EU regulations it is a requirement that GM be declared, so it is wholly appropriate.
- zzen 10y ago
  Because currently the USDA and FDA equivalents in EU actually work, and the laws that require food inspections are stricter. The worry is that TTIP market access policies will force uniform, lowest-common-denominator rules, eliminating european food QA policies.
  - ricksplat 10y ago
    Here is a really good example of food differences between USA and Europe. Something as simple as eggs: http://www.thejournal.ie/refrigerate-eggs-usa-europe-1809120-Dec2014/ http://www.thejournal.ie/refrigerate-eggs-usa-europe-1809120... TLDR: European regulations force more stringent regulations on producers of eggs; therefore eggs are cleaner and you can store them for weeks without refrigeration. IMHO they've also got a much nicer colour.
    - true_religion 10y ago
      This is why eggs in Denmark (as of my last visit) cost approximately 1.5x to 2.0x as much as eggs in the USA. There is a cost to having free-range eggs. There's a cost to controlling egg-quality so they can remain unwashed, and unrefrigerated for days. Now in the US, you can choose if you want to pay that cost and thus shop at different supermarkets that cater to your tastes. In the EU countries, you must pay the cost because its mandated by the government. If you'd prefer blander food, that requires more refrigeration, and deeper cooking because its inexpensive... you can't make that choice. It's taken away from you by the government.
      - ricksplat 10y ago
        Denmark isn't a great comparison because it's one of the places in Europe with the highest cost of living. Also these regulations aren't just to do with free range eggs but any battery farming facility. You might be on to something, that you should have the right to cheaper food, even if it notionally means poisoning yourself. The problem is though that you are not always in a situation where you can make an informed choice. Even if all the necessary information is provided at the point of sale (an exhaustive list of the details of the production of the food). You don't always consume at the point of sale: You may be buying sandwiches or be in a restaurant. Perhaps you could have regulations about the point of consumption having to declare all details there. I can imagine that becoming quite tiresome in Starbucks. If you have that, how do you enforce it? How much do you spend? How much time do you spend updating these rules to cover all the new permutations that an evolving market produces every day. Effectively this has what has happened with eggs in USA by transferring the cost of producing clean eggs onto stores and consumers who must now bear the cost of refrigeration. There is an environmental cost to all this energy used as well, in storage and transportation. Then there is food wastage because these eggs spoil more easily. So it's not even all about "your" choice any more ... By enforcing standards at point of production it drastically reduces the amount of red tape required to ensure consumers get a certain quality product.
- teekert 10y ago
  TTIP will also force us europeans to allow import of food sprayed with more pesticides (than currently allowed) linked to, among others, infertility. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/22/eu-dropped-pesticide-laws-due-to-us-pressure-over-ttip-documents-reveal https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/22/eu-dropp...
- polskibus 10y ago
  TTIP mandates use of private arbitrage courts, which in theory could be influenced by the stronger (not on merit) of two parties, against regulations already present in the EU. For example, if EU requires the use of substance X to be no more than Y% in 1 kg of apples, but such regulation is absent in USA, an American producer could sue EU for anticompetitivenes and win.
Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago
Yes, this is a huge worry for me. The quality of food in the US is atrocious. When I was there, almost nothing tasted as it should, everything tasted bland and mildly sweet. The only way I found to get decent meat was to buy ultra-posh organic stuff at ridiculous prices, and then it would be no more than on par with the cheapest meat I could buy in Spain. Even chocolate is affected! TTIP is one of the worst things that could happen to quality of life in Europe.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  For what it's worth, I live Ireland and moved here after 30 years in the US. I agree that the TTIP is a terrible idea (and feels a bit like imperialism chasing after me as I exit). Food on the continent is a sheer delight for the senses. However, if you visit this fine emerald isle, you will find the US has no monopoly on bland, mildly sweet food. (To be fair, we _do_ have some pretty great cheese)
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >However, if you visit this fine emerald isle, you will find the US has no monopoly on bland, mildly sweet food. Well, apart from whisky, nobody ever considered Ireland a place for good food. For UK of course it's even worse, they're actively known for the bad taste and cuisine.
    - orf 10y ago
      > For UK of course it's even worse, they're actively known for the bad taste and cuisine. As someone from the UK I take offense at that, sure we might not be on the same level as Italy or France (but really, who is?) but we have some great traditional food. Pies of all kinds, fish 'n' chips, traditional sausages, good old roast dinners, chicken tikka masala and of course the healthiest breakfast in the world. Tasty stuff. And lets not forget our mayonnaise and ketchup beats all others, hands down.
      - TorKlingberg 10y ago
tremon 10y ago
Indeed. For a different angle, see a recent publication by TNI: they argue that TTIP flies directly in the face of the Paris climate agreement. This text looks like it has been drafted with the main purpose of safeguarding the interests of industry, and the producers and consumers of fossil fuels. Instead of including text that would help to ensure that climate targets can be met, as we had hoped, this text will only make it more difficult to reach the needed energy transition https://www.tni.org/en/article/ttip-leaked-eu-trade-proposal-would-prevent-paris-climate-promise-to-end-fossil-fuel-era https://www.tni.org/en/article/ttip-leaked-eu-trade-proposal...
thedlade 10y ago
This is one of my biggest worries,bathe EU has been great so far with food regulations, no high fructose, gmo's or any nonsense. Hopefully they can keep it up for a while.
facepalm 10y ago
EU has many of the same problems that are mentioned in the article, though. Here in Germany efforts to enforce proper food labeling so far have failed. The olive oil scam is a thing here, too (so I have heard). Sea food - it comes from the same places as the sea food in the US. I suspect the differences are minor, and some things people fear are maybe even not so bad. Here they fear "chlorine chicken" from the US, but who knows, maybe it actually is better to soak chickens in chlorine before selling them. Maybe you should be afraid of chlorine free chicken in the US if TTIP goes through...

That's why EU people are protesting against TTIP. We're worried that the lower standards that are common in USA, will prevail, and any resistance will be trampled in private arbitrage courts.

foota 10y ago

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me, why would the quality of food there decrease?

gambiting 10y ago
Because in the EU there are laws that say that if something is labeled as virgin olive oil, it has to be olive oil and nothing else. Greek Yoghurt has to be made in Greece and nowhere else. Lobster meat has to be lobster meat, and Kobe beef absolutely has to be Kobe beef. TTIP basically(in extreme simplification) says that if something is allowed in US it should be allowed in any other signatory country - which would obviously lower our standards as they are much higher than those in US.
- culturestate 10y ago
  This is a great argument to whip people into a frenzy, but it's a little bit of a straw man. The US has labeling laws as well - it's not that the government doesn't care, it's that they're nearly impossible to enforce at scale. Without genetic analysis of literally every shipment, how is a regulatory authority to know what's what if the paperwork is otherwise "in order?"
  - DasIch 10y ago
    If you can't increase the number of tests, increase the punishment and let it affect the entire chain from supermarket to producer. You want being found guilty of a violation to be a nightmare scenario that will end people's careers and entire companies.
  - zzen 10y ago
    Look, as somebody that's lived many years in Europe and in US, the situation is incomparable. I don't know why - either you have crappy laws, or you have crappy enforcement. If you read the article, it claims both. The FDA has super-low requirements to do anything - and manages to do even less than required to. The european market is significantly bigger than US one (380m people) but manages to have much better labeling standards.
    - culturestate 10y ago
      The reality, as in so many other areas with regard to the US, is crappy enforcement. If inspection authority was enforced at the state level (while still being funded by the federal government) I suspect you'd see much greater results.
  - kbart 10y ago
    EU does enforce food safety and labeling laws quite well. That might be because every EU country has its own FDA equivalent that provisions much smaller market. Sure, incidents happen, but fake food is nowhere such widespread in EU than USA.
    - thaumasiotes 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal
      - kbart 10y ago
        As I said - incidents happen. And if the last scandal you have found is dated back to 2013, that only confirms my point.
        thaumasiotes 10y ago
        Sorry, I thought you were claiming that fake food was not widespread. ("because every EU country has its own FDA equivalent that provisions much smaller market") > if the last scandal you have found is dated back to 2013, that only confirms my point. Words fail me at your reasoning. How closely do you think I follow foreign food purity issues?
        chappi42 10y ago
        Well if you don't follow foreign food purity issues (closely) then, please, try to comment a little bit more humble. Maybe asking instead of definitive statements?
      - anexprogrammer 10y ago
        The point is, which many commenters seem to be missing, is UK Trading Standards and equivalent EU bodies regularly test to see that foods meet claimed ingredients and are not adulterated. Prosecutions, sanctions and bans are frequent. The periodic outrages are relatively rare and become front page news. If you claim on the label that your product is 52% tuna it can be (and frequently is) randomly tested and if it's not tuna, or 52% you can be open to prosecution. By the sounds of the US system you're probably eating horse regularly, but no one ever tests to establish this. In the case of the UK, austerity has resulted in Trading Standards being stretched to breaking point or beyond as funding has sunk way below actual need. Presumably the Tories will soon point to this as proof that a state owned system cannot work so let's privatise it. Brexit leaves me deeply concerned the UK will resemble the US more.
  - Dolores12 10y ago
    In USA you need not label GMO food as GMO. [1] Because "The FDA has determined that the fish is as safe and nutritious as nongenetically modified fish, and will therefore not require the company or retailers to label the fish as genetically engineered." [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/19/fda-approves-genetically-modified-fish-no-label-needed.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/19/fda-approves-genetically-modi...
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      Which is fine (I say as European). Requiring GMO labeling is is about as sensible as requiring DHMO labeling - it's scaremongering not based on science.
      - Dolores12 10y ago
        No, it is not fine with me. I have to have ability to make informed decision.
      - mickronome 10y ago
        While I tend to agree that the actual food is probably safe , there are several valid ideological justifications for such labeling. I would also support seed variety labeling wherever it is reasomably practical, as consumer choice can only be choice if fact are available. The history should also have taught us that if the industry tries to avoid labeling, they should generally be required labeling. They are likely not afraid of ink expenditures, rather they want to sell me one thing and tell me it is something slightly different, for profit.
      - CalRobert 10y ago
        Perhaps I choose not to buy GMO's because I find the notion of patenting the mechanics of life philosophically troubling. We're not all a bunch of anti-science luddites, you know.
        sampo 10y ago
        If you think only GMO varieties are patented, you are very ill informed. For example, google 'BASF clearfield'.
- foota 10y ago
  Okay, thank you. I'll have to read a summary of the thing so that I know more.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  > Greek Yoghurt has to be made in Greece and nowhere else. This is a really stupid regulation though. It's just protectionism for Greece, like the regulation that you can't call it "champagne" unless the grapes were grown in Champagne, France. There is no reason to expect this; consider Cheddar cheese, Peking duck, French toast, and Hamburgers.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    I don't see it as stupid at all! To me, Greek Yoghurt has to come from greece, that's what I expect as a customer. Any non-Greek Greek yoghurt is simply labeled as "Greek-style Yoghurt" and that's easy enough, when I go to the shop I know exactly what I'm getting.
    - thaumasiotes 10y ago
      > To me, Greek Yoghurt has to come from greece, that's what I expect as a customer. Why do you expect that? It can't be based on the name, since virtually all foods with an origin name were not actually made there. I'm pretty sure you don't expect Cheddar cheese to have come from Cheddar? Would you accept ordinary yoghurt that was imported from Greece being sold as "Greek Yoghurt"? If I imported Camembert cheese from Cheddar, it would still be Camembert. If I imported Cheddar cheese from Hong Kong, it would be Cheddar. French toast sold at a Denny's in New Mexico was made in New Mexico, not France. Peking duck is duck prepared in a style characteristic of Peking, not any duck prepared in whatever style but sold in Peking. And Greek yoghurt is yoghurt prepared in a style characteristic of a Greek company that decided to sell thickened, sweetened yoghurt.
      - DasIch 10y ago
        You can expect that because EU regulation requires it to be that way.
        thaumasiotes 10y ago
        If that's the reason you expect it, the regulation is the sole justification for its own existence. I feel quite comfortable calling that "stupid".
- nitwit005 10y ago
  It's generally suggested here in the US that you buy olive oil labeled as being from California, as the Italian labels are often adulterated or mislabeled. The periodic scandals out of Italy seem to support that view: http://www.eater.com/2016/6/30/12070668/olive-oil-fraud-italy-fines-bertolli http://www.eater.com/2016/6/30/12070668/olive-oil-fraud-ital...
  - pcrh 10y ago
    Isn't that a problem with US regulations and enforcement, rather than EU ones?
    - evgen 10y ago
      It is a problem with US regulators assuming that EU regulations are something more than scams to bid up the price of olive oils by claiming they came from a particular region (usually one that makes some bogus terrior claim) when in fact they do not. If the EU cannot enforce its own vaunted food regulations then I suppose the US should just stop accepting any claims regarding food provenance and dispense with any DOP compliance whatsoever...
      - pcrh 10y ago
        Most likely the oil is shipped in large containers and bottled in the US. So the labeling will fall under US jurisdiction, not EU.
- adrr 10y ago
  EU laws aren't being enforced. All the fake olive oil is coming out of Italy. If you want real virgin olive oil in the US, you have to buy the California ones. It was also reported that Kobe beef was being sold at European restaurants even when Europe had a ban on Japanese meats during the Mad Cow Scare. Those are things just off the top of my head, i bet if you actually dug in, Europe has many examples of where fake products are sold. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/#740295075e0c http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-...
  - ricksplat 10y ago
    I don't think you can say that just because rules are being broken, that is a case for them being repealed.
    - stephenr 10y ago
      It's the default American approach to assume that a failed implementation equals a failure of a concept.
      - ricksplat 10y ago
        To be fair to our American friends it's not solely their bias; a lot of the pro-Brexit voters have a similar feeling about the EU.
        tremon 10y ago
        You don't really know how many of the voters voted against the implementation, and how many voted against the concept, do you?
        ricksplat 10y ago
        No, but going by the commentary, and voxpops, I can safely assume "a lot", which is what I said and meant.
DasIch 10y ago
Free trade requires harmonized regulation. If the EU adopts the less strict US regulations, the quality of food decreases.
misja111 10y ago
Because TTIP is heavily influenced by the lobbying of big multinationals, the Monsanto's and the likes. As a result it favors the big food companies over small local producers. Eventually TTIP will lead to less local variety of food products and more food that is imported and therefore less fresh.
- sampo 10y ago
  > the Monsanto's and the likes Monsanto is an agrichemical and seeds company. It is not in the food business. I know 'Monsanto' is sometimes used as a general synonym for 'evil company', but this is somewhat inappropriate.
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    1. Monsanto wants the food grown with its seeds to be sold more. 2. TTIP is enormously encompassing, about far more than food. 3. A cursory search will show lobbying by Monsanto for TTIP.
  - ricksplat 10y ago
    and the like Currently under EU regulations it is a requirement that GM be declared, so it is wholly appropriate.
zzen 10y ago
Because currently the USDA and FDA equivalents in EU actually work, and the laws that require food inspections are stricter. The worry is that TTIP market access policies will force uniform, lowest-common-denominator rules, eliminating european food QA policies.
- ricksplat 10y ago
  Here is a really good example of food differences between USA and Europe. Something as simple as eggs: http://www.thejournal.ie/refrigerate-eggs-usa-europe-1809120-Dec2014/ http://www.thejournal.ie/refrigerate-eggs-usa-europe-1809120... TLDR: European regulations force more stringent regulations on producers of eggs; therefore eggs are cleaner and you can store them for weeks without refrigeration. IMHO they've also got a much nicer colour.
  - true_religion 10y ago
    This is why eggs in Denmark (as of my last visit) cost approximately 1.5x to 2.0x as much as eggs in the USA. There is a cost to having free-range eggs. There's a cost to controlling egg-quality so they can remain unwashed, and unrefrigerated for days. Now in the US, you can choose if you want to pay that cost and thus shop at different supermarkets that cater to your tastes. In the EU countries, you must pay the cost because its mandated by the government. If you'd prefer blander food, that requires more refrigeration, and deeper cooking because its inexpensive... you can't make that choice. It's taken away from you by the government.
    - ricksplat 10y ago
      Denmark isn't a great comparison because it's one of the places in Europe with the highest cost of living. Also these regulations aren't just to do with free range eggs but any battery farming facility. You might be on to something, that you should have the right to cheaper food, even if it notionally means poisoning yourself. The problem is though that you are not always in a situation where you can make an informed choice. Even if all the necessary information is provided at the point of sale (an exhaustive list of the details of the production of the food). You don't always consume at the point of sale: You may be buying sandwiches or be in a restaurant. Perhaps you could have regulations about the point of consumption having to declare all details there. I can imagine that becoming quite tiresome in Starbucks. If you have that, how do you enforce it? How much do you spend? How much time do you spend updating these rules to cover all the new permutations that an evolving market produces every day. Effectively this has what has happened with eggs in USA by transferring the cost of producing clean eggs onto stores and consumers who must now bear the cost of refrigeration. There is an environmental cost to all this energy used as well, in storage and transportation. Then there is food wastage because these eggs spoil more easily. So it's not even all about "your" choice any more ... By enforcing standards at point of production it drastically reduces the amount of red tape required to ensure consumers get a certain quality product.
teekert 10y ago
TTIP will also force us europeans to allow import of food sprayed with more pesticides (than currently allowed) linked to, among others, infertility. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/22/eu-dropped-pesticide-laws-due-to-us-pressure-over-ttip-documents-reveal https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/22/eu-dropp...
polskibus 10y ago
TTIP mandates use of private arbitrage courts, which in theory could be influenced by the stronger (not on merit) of two parties, against regulations already present in the EU. For example, if EU requires the use of substance X to be no more than Y% in 1 kg of apples, but such regulation is absent in USA, an American producer could sue EU for anticompetitivenes and win.

Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago

Yes, this is a huge worry for me. The quality of food in the US is atrocious. When I was there, almost nothing tasted as it should, everything tasted bland and mildly sweet. The only way I found to get decent meat was to buy ultra-posh organic stuff at ridiculous prices, and then it would be no more than on par with the cheapest meat I could buy in Spain. Even chocolate is affected! TTIP is one of the worst things that could happen to quality of life in Europe.

CalRobert 10y ago
For what it's worth, I live Ireland and moved here after 30 years in the US. I agree that the TTIP is a terrible idea (and feels a bit like imperialism chasing after me as I exit). Food on the continent is a sheer delight for the senses. However, if you visit this fine emerald isle, you will find the US has no monopoly on bland, mildly sweet food. (To be fair, we _do_ have some pretty great cheese)
- coldtea 10y ago
  >However, if you visit this fine emerald isle, you will find the US has no monopoly on bland, mildly sweet food. Well, apart from whisky, nobody ever considered Ireland a place for good food. For UK of course it's even worse, they're actively known for the bad taste and cuisine.
  - orf 10y ago
    > For UK of course it's even worse, they're actively known for the bad taste and cuisine. As someone from the UK I take offense at that, sure we might not be on the same level as Italy or France (but really, who is?) but we have some great traditional food. Pies of all kinds, fish 'n' chips, traditional sausages, good old roast dinners, chicken tikka masala and of course the healthiest breakfast in the world. Tasty stuff. And lets not forget our mayonnaise and ketchup beats all others, hands down.
    - TorKlingberg 10y ago

tremon 10y ago

Indeed. For a different angle, see a recent publication by TNI: they argue that TTIP flies directly in the face of the Paris climate agreement. This text looks like it has been drafted with the main purpose of safeguarding the interests of industry, and the producers and consumers of fossil fuels. Instead of including text that would help to ensure that climate targets can be met, as we had hoped, this text will only make it more difficult to reach the needed energy transition https://www.tni.org/en/article/ttip-leaked-eu-trade-proposal-would-prevent-paris-climate-promise-to-end-fossil-fuel-era https://www.tni.org/en/article/ttip-leaked-eu-trade-proposal...

thedlade 10y ago

This is one of my biggest worries,bathe EU has been great so far with food regulations, no high fructose, gmo's or any nonsense. Hopefully they can keep it up for a while.

facepalm 10y ago

EU has many of the same problems that are mentioned in the article, though. Here in Germany efforts to enforce proper food labeling so far have failed. The olive oil scam is a thing here, too (so I have heard). Sea food - it comes from the same places as the sea food in the US. I suspect the differences are minor, and some things people fear are maybe even not so bad. Here they fear "chlorine chicken" from the US, but who knows, maybe it actually is better to soak chickens in chlorine before selling them. Maybe you should be afraid of chlorine free chicken in the US if TTIP goes through...