16 ms·

Wire – Modern Communications Network

498 points by jkaljundi 12y ago

a3_nm 12y ago
Sadly, it seems as proprietary and centralized as Skype is.
hfmurdoc 12y ago
Top video is broken on Firefox. This has been happening more and more these days; entire, diverse development teams and they're all on Chrome.
lumberjack 12y ago
I recently discovered SIP-based softphone software (ex. Ekiga). I works great, is easy to use and completely free of charge and registration is minimal (you just need a SIP account). I really don't get why people would pay for Skype when there are better alternatives around.
ponyous 12y ago
Oh its everywhere! Except... Windows, Linux, BlackBerry, Windows Phone, Web... iOS, OS X and Android is far from everywhere.
- iamtew 12y ago
  And no love for Sailfish OS as usual :-(
  - claudius 12y ago
    On the other hand, if it’s any good, there’ll be an open Sailfish-only app for it soon?
    - iamtew 12y ago
      I doubt it. The problems with apps in Sailfish is that their appstore doesn't seem to support any payment for apps, so all the apps need to be free. I think this is maybe not giving incentive for people to actively develop on that platform unfortunately. But perhaps someone comes up with a free app, you never know...
- LukaD 12y ago
  I can understand why they wouldn't support Linux/Blackberry/WP. As a Linux user I'm used to that. But not having windows support? Really?
  - lmedinas 12y ago
    For Windows probably will be the Browser extension/addon which according to other comments will be using WebRTC.
    - locusm 12y ago
      They are releasing a full Windows client soon.
- Sarkie 12y ago
  #1 issue.
- Khao 12y ago
  I don't get why they decided an OS X app was more important to release than a browser app... A browser app reaches a way bigger market share than an OS X one.
  - jonalmeida 12y ago
    The Mac app is also pretty awkward on non-Yosemite computers; a very broken UI.
hudo 12y ago
If they put "win client coming soon, sign up for updates" to get how many people even want it, that would be at least something. But this "only ios and android" philosophy, i just don't get it. What kind of smart business decision has to be to rule out 80-90% of users!?
warcode 12y ago
"Skype-killers" without end-to-end encryption are useless.
- tmikaeld 12y ago
  My first thought as well, why change when nothing have changed.
- beaner 12y ago
  This is really all I want as well. There's tons of pretty messaging apps. Style isn't enough to sway me anymore - I want privacy. How hard is it to make a messaging app that makes encryption its #1 priority?
  - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
    I've been following Tox with some interest. It's fairly new but fully open source, decentralized, end-to-end encryption, no account needed (people added via their unique bytestring). https://tox.im/ https://tox.im/
    - Xylemon 12y ago
      Tox has interested me more since it's inception, mainly because it's open source and completely relies on peer to peer connections. I've seen some other open source alternatives that aren't as light weight and still centralized to some degree. Wire, if it really wants to be a "Skype killer" in my opinion, should go open source and be more reassuring about how they are protecting our privacy.
    - corobo 12y ago
      I wish this one would market itself as a really good chat application first and privacy second. Privacy etc is of course important but it all feels far too tinfoil hat for myself and too technical I'd imagine for anyone else I know to bother with
  - column 12y ago
    Pretty hard, but it's coming. See http://labs.bittorrent.com/bleep http://labs.bittorrent.com/bleep
NullReference 12y ago
"What we need is another messaging app" said nobody, ever. It looks pretty, but this is yet another app in the long list of "Skype killers" or "Voice/video/text" messaging. It seems like it's the default goto for anyone that can't think of something more interesting these days.
- fizx 12y ago
  We didn't need yet another IRC clone, and yet Slack seems to be cleaning up. The core value prop of the internet is easy communication. Don't be surprised when people continue to iterate on it.
  - wamatt 12y ago
    To be fair, Slack is much more than simply an IRC clone
    - hueving 12y ago
      Right, because most IRC clones are free
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      Well, it apparently is a poor man's IRC clone with awesome UI bolted on top. I think a properly made modern IRC client would blow it out of the water.
  - hackerboos 12y ago
    Slack was doing it for me until recently. I could paste code and it would format it correctly. It looked great although a bit sluggish at times. Then I tried to share a Pages document...
    - coldtea 12y ago
      So? Even if it turned out badly, that's one bug for a rather obscure use case that can be fixed anyway...
rattray 12y ago
Unless I'm missing something, this seems to be voice, IM, and multimedia only - no video chat.
- akurilin 12y ago
  I was going to say, I was expecting an app with a significantly better video chat experience, since that's what most people associate the word "Skype" with, not instant messaging.
ozcanesen 12y ago
Privacy agreements just a word without cryptographic technology background as supporter. Also "everwhere" not means "ios, osx, android". where is windows and linux desktop clients, even skype supports linux desktops today.
- acqq 12y ago
  And it's only iOS8. That also leaves out iPhone 4 and iPad 2. Skype works on both.
  - trounce 12y ago
    I'm running iOS8 on an old iPad 2 just fine
    - Maarten88 12y ago
      > just fine How did you overclock it?
    - acqq 12y ago
      Please explain how.
    - smw 12y ago
      Agreed. Put 8.1.1 on iPad 2 last night. It's quite snappy. I'm not sure where this legend comes from?
- phillc73 12y ago
  I'm most surprised to see a new application launch without a Windows client. Is this a conscious marketing decision to not target the Windows user market? Is the market share of iOS, Android and OSx enough for these guys to succeed without a Windows client? The website notes that a browser client is coming soon, but nothing for native Windows.
  - jarin 12y ago
    I'm pretty sure it just means that the developers at the company primarily use Macs.
nemasu 12y ago
Hmm, no Linux client ... and you 'have' to set a picture when you register? Really? I'm out.
- aurora72 12y ago
  No OSX Lion compatibility too. And they've put it on App Store as if it's the only way to distribute it. Looks like a BS.
  - josh64 12y ago
    Not many people seem to use Lion these days though. An app that I work on has less than 6% (of the 13,000 users who have opted in to providing system stats) on Lion.
  - aurora72 12y ago
    >> Not many people seem to use Lion these days though. An app that I work on has less than 6% (of the 13,000 users who have opted in to providing system stats) on Lion. Locking an app to a version of OS is still a bad practice, particularly for an app aiming to network effect. I have Viber and it works on my Lion! Btw, I think that Viber blows away the competition by having everything: VoIP, Pic,Video, Message all for free!
  - jawngee 12y ago
    It doesn't run on GS/OS either. Unbelievable.
flexie 12y ago
Skype has video chat. So far Wire only has audio. Skype can call a regular phone or receive calls from a regular phone. It seems like Wire can't, yet. Skype has all my contacts, Wire has none, yet. Let's call it a Skype killer if it kills Skype. Not yet.
- sjimdickens 12y ago
  +1 totally agreed
- return0 12y ago
  even my browser has video chat , basically a lot more than that (e.g. https://github.com/muaz-khan/WebRTC-Experiment https://github.com/muaz-khan/WebRTC-Experiment)
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  Of course this is early. OTOH, when Skype launched, it had a sub-standard feature set, and even kept it's shitty UI around. Messenger was dominating, supported video/audio/etc. (As did NetMeeting). Yet MS fucked that one up and just let Skype and FB takeover. So it's not inconceivable that MS could repeat the same thing again.
NKCSS 12y ago
"Wire is everywhere!" - No windows phone client :P
- ethana 12y ago
  Or Windows for that matter.
- jagermo 12y ago
  - or Blackberry client.
mrmondo 12y ago
While I welcome more competition since Skype really gone down hill after being bought by Microsoft, however this applications website doesn't give any useful information on the encryption used - it would be good to see if it supports OTR style encryption.
nikolak 12y ago
It's not everywhere, it has no video chat, and nobody uses it. If it somehow manages to "kill" anything it definitely won't be Skype.
jagermo 12y ago
No Windows-version? No killer.
rcarmo 12y ago
sigh it seems I'll eventually have to update this: http://the.taoofmac.com/space/blog/2014/11/13/0830#the-instant-mess-we-re-in http://the.taoofmac.com/space/blog/2014/11/13/0830#the-insta...
scalayer 12y ago
Does anyone else feel like we're in the midst of another 1990's instant messaging war? Except now with smartphones!
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- cJ0th 12y ago
  Yeah and this implies that people by and large still aren't tech savvy (enough). This is very unfortunate as we have to use the software most people are wiling to tolerate. Ironically, in most of my use cases e-mail is the best solution for communication. It is based on widely accepted protocols [there is an abundance of e-mail clients you can choose from without fearing compatibility issues], delivery is (most of the time) almost instant and it is up to you which provider you use (or you can even host an e-mail server yourself). It's also good concerning encryption in that you can agree with each of your contacts whether or not you want to use some form of it. In contrast, messenger like Facebook don't give you a choice and OTR is not something everyone is willing to learn about.
alandarev 12y ago
Skype killer? Granted most Skype users are Windows PC users, how an application not available for Windows can threaten Skype?
- vog 12y ago
  While I agree that "Skype killer" is a hyperbole, I guess the idea is that the "Windows PC" people will switch to using their smart phone instead. Also, there is a "Browser - coming soon" button, indicating that they do target larger computers in a portable way.
deleted 12y ago
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hagsteel 12y ago
This was probably a big effort from the people who developed Wire. I'm sure lots of development time has gone in to the product with many difficult problems to solve, so to all the developers of Wire: Good work! It probably feels a bit defeating to spend all that time developing something only to have people slating it. That said: I do not think this app is for me. I wish it had a more compact interface (like old Skype for OSX), before Skype became this large take-over-the-screen app, and reading that it might not have video chat kind of kills it for me.
liotier 12y ago
Documented open protocol or GTFO !
jbb555 12y ago
Horrible website
- zl4000 12y ago
  Yeah, I can't believe this crap has become de-facto web design.
  - diminish 12y ago
    I am also stunned by the horrible usability of the web site. Who really inspires those people to make many UX mistake on one simple page?
zecg 12y ago
Marketing, marketing everywhere. Is the protocol open?
jkaljundi 12y ago
Some background: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/03/wire-communications-skype-janus-friis-app http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/03/wire-commu...
salimmadjd 12y ago
The UI is beautiful. However, differentiating on UI for an app that's about communication can only take you so far. I think some users will be initially wowed by all the nice colors etc. but the app is about chatting, sending images, text and taking, and no amount of beautiful color is going to impact that. I know how long it takes to make things pretty, I'm wondering if this was a right decision vs. investing their time on something else that is more core to their value (communication). I think there is a lot of room to innovate around ease of communication, texting, chatting, etc. on the mobile space and we'll see more apps and probably another $Billon exit. edit: typo
dzhiurgis 12y ago
Skype is the most resource hungry app on my Mac. It deserves to die. Unfortunately I am forced to resort using it whenever FaceTime fails. And that happens approx. every 15nth call.
- super_mario 12y ago
  Really? I use it on variety of Macs (2008 Mac Pro, 2011 27'' iMac, 2007 24'' iMac, 2008 Aluminum Macbook, 2011 17'' Macbook Pro) and it runs smoothly and doesn't use much CPU at all on any of them. During video calls it will use more CPU but that's somewhat expected (Factime video calls do too).
  - dzhiurgis 12y ago
    It beats Safari and Chrome by CPU time and packets sent by orders of magnitude. Of course Chrome and Safari processes are separated nowadays, but still they do have some central stuff.
ape4 12y ago
I like how Wire and Telegram are referencing old tech. I prediction the next Skype killer will be called Morse or Flip Phone.
warrenmiller 12y ago
Could they not get any more Hipsters on that page?
- sergiotapia 12y ago
  I know right. I guess that's their target demo.
imron 12y ago
I'll sure it'll be great... just like the original Skype - and then they'll sell it again and it will get worse.
huslage 12y ago
Talko? Blah blah.
deleted 12y ago
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incidence 12y ago
On Linux google hangouts voice call quality is much better than Skype's
crystaln 12y ago
The most compelling feature of Skype was end-to-end encryption - that is before Microsoft centralized the service, subjected it to man-in-the-middle attacks, and partnered with the Chinese government to produce a back-doored version Tom-Skype. The app page says "Wire interactions are secure and we comply with European privacy laws and regulations." That's just not enough.
- AhtiK 12y ago
  Skype still has end-to-end encryption. But Skype also has the private keys for every user which renders end-to-end encryption "less useful". Sadly they have always had the keys, from the beginning. Tom skype just made content more accessible to the "interested parties".
johnchristopher 12y ago
A `Skype killer` not available on Windows computer ? That's not going to kill Skype.
julianpye 12y ago
What Skype has and what any of the newcomer will struggle to get is my extended family. My mum and dad, lots of uncles and aunts, some of which over 80 year old all use Skype every day. It is a big challenge to move any of these people to new technology, even if it would offer a real advantage for them, which no real newcomer does at the moment.
deanclatworthy 12y ago
> Wire interactions are secure and we comply with European privacy laws and regulations. Which basically means as soon as a warrant is sent from pretty much any European government they'll hand over all your conversations. The support article doesn't give any detail whatsoever on how they encrypt your conversations: https://support.wire.com/hc/en-us/articles/203122500-Are-messages-and-calls-encrypted- https://support.wire.com/hc/en-us/articles/203122500-Are-mes... It's a shame companies can't be held accountable for advertising their services as secure, for false advertising.
- blumkvist 12y ago
  Huh? Which company will not give records if subpoenaed? PS: Of course companies can be held accountable for false advertising. You can take them to court yourself.
  - netheril96 12y ago
    The company that does not have records to begin with, when the encryption is truly end-to-end.
- psykovsky 12y ago
  > Wire interactions are secure and we comply with European privacy laws and regulations. Marketing double-speak.
skc 12y ago
I'm a little curious. I use Skype semi regularly and it seems to work just fine for me. But it seems everyone here hates it. Are there some "power user" features that don't work well or something?
- gurkendoktor 12y ago
  - Impossible to grok as a network admin, as it aggressively tries to work on EVERY network (even when only port 80 is available etc.) - The transition from P2P to centralised means that we enjoy all the downsides of a centralised system (hello NSA) AND all the downsides of P2P (no reliable offline messages, esp. with multiple devices) - The iPhone version is 100% custom UI, looks and acts like a Windows Phone app, and has dropped several features (App Store reviews have not been very favourable) - Closed source, non-sandboxed and from a surveillance-friendly company - A resource hog That said, Wire looks like a complete non-starter to me.
13 12y ago
Doesn't require a mobile number to sign up, that's new. Privacy policy is predictably gritty though.
sanketbajoria 12y ago
I will definitely try this
ps4fanboy 12y ago
Not surprised this is from ex-Skype people, no desktop. Quality isnt something I have attached to the skype brand.
skratlo 12y ago
They won't use a standard protocol even if it makes lots of sense for the users. For them, they fear being commoditized as a result of using a standard. Same reason why Hangouts will stop being available through XMPP anytime soon. It's very sad that these companies are so short-sighted, and can only think of small profit for themselves.
vjvj 12y ago
We should all just get over our prejudices and download BBM which is the closest app to a Skype killer that I've used. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
ulfw 12y ago
Why does Skype needs to be 'killed' by ex-Skype people again and how does that benefit consumers exactly?
noelwelsh 12y ago
Skype has kinda been the hot potato company that everyone wanted to buy but, once acquired, no-one could figure out how to actually make money from. Will Wire be any different? One argument is that is doesn't matter. Messaging is such an attractive market that people just continue to invest in it. Telecos certainly didn't have any problems making money back in their hay-day, and there is the "get all the eyeballs and monetize later" argument that is still popular. Perhaps as consumers we're just doomed to switch platforms every 5-10 yrs as companies rise and then fizzle out. Perhaps churn is the price we pay for free messaging? FWIW I did pay for Skype for a short while, as I needed some features, but then their billing structure changed and other free products became popular so I stopped.
secfirstmd 12y ago
So in the age of Edward Snowden this is all they say about encryption... "Are Messages And Calls Encrypted? Yes. Wire uses industry-standard encryption on all of your Wire messages and calls." "WHAT SECURITY MEASURES DO WE TAKE TO SAFEGUARD YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION? We are concerned about safeguarding the confidentiality of your information. We provide physical, electronic, and procedural safeguards to protect information we process and maintain. In addition, we restrict access to personal information to Company employees who need to know this information in order to develop, operate and maintain the Service." Come on guys...how can anything this vague be trusted? And by European they mean Swiss, so not specifically EU. One of the typical evasive phrases... From the Guardian Article: "Locating its head office in Switzerland was Wire’s first decision taken on security grounds. “If someone is interested in accessing our user data, there’s a formal and well-regulated process in Switzerland for that. They’re very mindful of privacy, and the same is true in Germany." Swiss naturally implies safety for many people (which is deceptive...real, verifiable, audited, end to end encryption is safety), for anyone unsure about the reality of "Swiss" cooperation with NSA since the 70s, read about Crypto AG http://mediafilter.org/caq/cryptogate/ http://mediafilter.org/caq/cryptogate/ For those wondering about "Swiss privacy laws," if you are a foreign national you are effectively fair game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx_%28interception_system%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx_%28interception_system%29 http://www.iclg.co.uk/practice-areas/telecoms-media-and-internet-laws/telecoms,-media-and-internet-laws-and-regulations/switzerland http://www.iclg.co.uk/practice-areas/telecoms-media-and-inte...
- tomp 12y ago
  Exactly. Complying with "all messages encrypted" is equivalent to simply using HTTPS (and equivalent for voice). But this doesn't make it safe against MITM attacks, side-channel attacks and government subpoenas!
- bndr 12y ago
  You should consider that most other messengers offer no such promises, even vague ones.
  - vog 12y ago
pearjuice 12y ago
More fragmentation, great. I cannot help but think how this time I will again convince my contacts to migrate to yet another messaging app. I should probably ask the contacts on WhatsApp first. Or rather Telegram? I think some people are still on Viber, too. My friends on Kik have just migrated from Whatsapp so I will approach them last. The app who can actually solve _this_ problem will be the next big thing. And if doesn't work, we have yet another messaging app.
dang 12y ago
Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692427 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692140.
AhtiK 12y ago
Anyone who is interested in OTR (off the record) and peer to peer encryption, Wire is not for you. Please see https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/software.php https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/software.php for suggestions which might be reliable as of today. Everyone else who feels good about keeping their messages safely stored for later inspection, use Wire or any other chat client that "looks beautiful", "is pure" and blends yt videos nicely into your feed. EDIT: Do not take my comment as a critique or sarcasm against Wire. There are different audiences for messaging apps and it's important to understand if you are the one before being negative about privacy policy and encryption.
- kashif 12y ago
  For off the record try - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.hushes https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.hushes
spiritplumber 12y ago
Are they going to have some kind of API? I loved being able to programmatically send and read Skype messages on Android, until it stopped working. Also, will it work with Linphone?
- michaelmior 12y ago
  I sure hope so. No decent API is my biggest gripe about Skype. We found Skype to be a great team chat tool although it was frustrating not being able to connect external services.
steffandroid 12y ago
Strange decision to solely target Android 4.4 and above, that means it's only compatible with about 34% of Android devices.
- Istof 12y ago
  I wonder which feature that they need that is only present in 4.4+
ugdev 12y ago
Actually it is not that hard to create a better product than Skype. Skype sucks in so many ways that i wouldn't know where to beginn. Exchange developers, exchange the designer and the UI team. Hate it - but use it every single day.
joeyspn 12y ago
No, the Skype killer has another name: WebRTC. And Wire seems like yet another closed-source GUI making use of the WebRTC stack. I honestly prefer FOSS solutions: Tox, oTalk, Jitsi, etc... oTalk looks really promising
- jkaljundi 12y ago
  Have not heard mainstream users or kids or grannys using any of those? Are they popular?
  - amandine 12y ago
    IMO the ideal world is one where everyone can use their preferred app and still be able to chat and VoIP with everyone else... Like email basically...
- lmedinas 12y ago
  I'm surprised nobody here mentioned Firefox Hello, which seems also to be using WebRTC. Of course it's not fully cross-platform but afaik you can do connections between Firefox and other browsers using WebRTC.
- amandine 12y ago
  What about matrix.org who's trying to fix the fragmentation by providing an open standardized signalling layer for WebRTC? Might interest you too! We've been working on integrating with Jitsi, although not finished yet
  - joeyspn 12y ago
    Nice project. Have you hear about OpenPeer? They're doing a similar thing... providing an open standardized signalling (P2P) layer for WebRTC... http://openpeer.org/ http://openpeer.org/
    - amandine 12y ago
      Yes we're in touch with them. Matrix and Open Peer are complementary technologies - Matrix is focused entirely on the client/server use-case for messaging between always-on persistent federated messaging stores. Open Peer is obviously focused on adhoc p2p messaging without much persistent serverside history.
csomar 12y ago
I signed up and downloaded the app (android). 1. The App uses different non-standard patterns. It's really a pain to use and navigate. 2. The design is cool and I like it. 3. I should be able to find users by ID or similar. Who wants to test this thing can add me (contact -at- omarabid.com )
- sly010 12y ago
  4. You can't seem to actually call phones, which is why everyone uses Skype. Or did I miss something? Notably, all videochat apps makes desktops super hot while their mobile equivalent works fine. My humble guess is because on iOS/Android they are using the hardware accelerated codecs (due to the lack of other options), while on desktop they just assume the CPU can do everything. I will be interested to see how Wire performs in that regard. I am doing a lot telecommuting and have a frequently remote relationship, so I try a bunch of these apps. Here is the thing: I don't care about beautiful interfaces when it comes to full screen videochat. So far the best experience I had was with oovoo, which was simultaneously the ugliest software at the time. Perhaps Wire will be successful for the same reason Slack is: it just works (I have yet to see).
pisarzp 12y ago
The UI may look pretty, but its totally unusable for me. It took me ages to figure out how to make a call.
gurkendoktor 12y ago
Am I such an outlier if I use Skype for business, not for leisure? I have clients on three continents and every single one used Skype to communicate about the project. Skype was generally running on every machine as a "watercooler chat"/IRC replacement. Just open groups, give them names and pin them to the sidebar. Done. So I really expected this to be more secure, more portable and LESS designer-driven. Who is even narcissistic enough to use a sidebar that is a giant, high-res portrait of oneself?! Maybe a Slack/HipChat/... killer for boutique agencies?
- gcb0 12y ago
  i like to joke there are two types of tech companies, mutually exclusive. - profit driven - investor money driven skype is a profit company. wire is clearly investor money driven. So while your example is valid, i don't think they want to displace the corporate consumer that creates the bulky of skype profit. It probably wants to go after the users that uses snapchat/wasup/etc for free, with little revenue besides what is necessary for a "revenue" round A/B/C/IPO deck, and get investor money/get acquired. PS: while skype is a consumer product, its job is not to drive revenue, but to advertise the corporate solution: Lync. Lync gets microsoft 2bi/yr, while skype peak at 600m/yr in a good year. 600m sounds good, but not when you paid over 8bi for it.
  - rplnt 12y ago
    Sadly, we mostly hear about those investor money driven companies.
    - gregpilling 12y ago
      They have money to hire staff to do PR. Bootstrapped companies are often cash strapped for a long time before they can afford PR people. Founders are told to do it, but reality of running a company gets in the way.
  - danyork 12y ago
    And curiously, Microsoft is replacing "Lync" with "Skype for Business".... although I'm not sure if that is a simple renaming of the existing client.
Macha 12y ago
To contact everyone I know I need: * Skype * XMPP * Hangouts * AIM * YIM * SMS * Facebook * IRC * Viber (which I don't use, because yet another client was too much when all these people had other clients anyway). Another client is just a no go at this stage. I'm still annoyed at Skype blocking both multiple network IM clients I used (imo first, then when they dropped the whole "multiple network" part, IM+).
- sly010 12y ago
  If Skype allowed that (without having to run the original client), they wouldn't make any money. On a related note, is there any multi network app that supports video?
  - hjst 12y ago
    > On a related note, is there any multi network app that supports video? Yes, both Pidgin and Empathy support voice and video calling via XMPP. I suspect you'd need to use a "standard" XMPP server though - it wouldn't work over gtalk or facebook chat for instance.
- NKCSS 12y ago
  No WhatsApp? :)
  - Macha 12y ago
    Not big in my country, actually. (That said, neither is AIM, but generally people I know abroad don't ask about Whatsapp. Yet anyway.)
- e12e 12y ago
  Wow, AIM's not dead? With the stuff happening at Yahoo, one would think they might just go ahead and move to XMPP (and enable server federation for good measure...). BTW: If you have XMPP anyway, you can use that for chat.facebook.com. Shame with Hangouts. But everyone wants their golden silo, I guess.
anon4 12y ago
A skype killer... that doesn't run on windows or linux.
- hactually 12y ago
  I read the blurb, liked the look and thought "why not?". I clicked download and don't see Linux, or even a browser option. It's not a skype killer - it's more prettier Whatsapp alternative without the market share. Honestly, if whatsapp did a browser/desktop client I'd be on that before this even got a second look
Smrchy 12y ago
Nice first impression. Some issues though: No video chat. That's the main thing i use skype for. Sound goes through my Macs default settings. I can change the microphone to my headset but not the output. If i change the output to headset it will also change this for my music which is annoying.
JulianMorrison 12y ago
"This app is incompatible with all your devices" Well, then.
algorithm_dk 12y ago
From my initial investigation they have some <bad> code behind, race conditions and I think I found a place where it's leaking the IP of the guy you're calling. I'll post my findings later. Messages are sent over SSL but not encrypted in any other way, so they can read them :)
sly010 12y ago
Am I the only one who realised there is no videochat in Wire?
mrtimuk 12y ago
..and please let there be decent keyboard shortcuts (I'm looking at you, Skype)
Aardwolf 12y ago
Why no download for Linux? Why is this always still happening? If you want to make this thing really everywhere, then imho priority numbero 1 should be to rely on libraries that work everywhere - not just the latest version of a select few OSes. It'll be easier to maintain in the future as well.
- feld 12y ago
  It's not year of Linux on the desktop yet, and never will be. Sorry.
dzohrob 12y ago
Can anyone explain to me what "full democracy" means in this context? From the page: "It’s on. Wire is perfect for staying connected with any group. Create a conversation, name it as you wish, and add people — your groups will be taking off whether they’re about work, family or fun. Oh, and Wire groups are full democracy."
lesingerouge 12y ago
Having some slight experience in the publishing and content industry, any title that contains the word "killer" is for me a big fat sign for "bulls#$t". I will still pick trusted recommendations[1] over advertising any day. [1] https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard
Nanjingguy 12y ago
So many colors....and so much text. Are there any pictures at all? Or is my Chinese internet just too slow?
chdir 12y ago
That domain name would have been one expensive purchase. I wonder if there's any significant correlation between buying an expensive domain upfront & success rate. That aside, It has spent most of it's life being parked with ads. https://web.archive.org/web/*/wire.com https://web.archive.org/web/*/wire.com
- johnward 12y ago
  I often wonder about price when I see great domain names like this. Sometimes they seem to boost the product and many times it doesn't matter. I saw a post on reddit about examine.com. I think the guy said he paid like 40k for the domain and he believes it was a big part of why they were growing. He basically said that he had money from previous business selling and he figured even if the site didn't work out the domain name would get him back most of that money if not more if he had to resell it.
  - SoloX5 12y ago
    That's me!
    - johnward 12y ago
      oh hai. So was what I said correct? When I had money I used to scarf up domain names for any idea I had. Some of them were decent but I don't think I've ever sold a single one. Eventually just let them all expire after holding them for like 6 years.
      - SoloX5 12y ago
        Yup 100%. Worst case, I could have still turned it around and immediately sold it for 25k. If I was more patient, likely 35k. To me, ignoring the opportunity cost of the cash itself, it was a ~10k risk. Worth it.
krick 12y ago
I understand it's their business and all, but I don't see why we need one more not-opensource messenger app. As we don't have enough. Sure, somebody will use it, but it's all about marketing now and I only can hope they'll fail. Nothing interesting here.
locusm 12y ago
https://twitter.com/wire/status/540139385660772352 https://twitter.com/wire/status/540139385660772352 "Thank you for the good feedback on Wire. For Windows users — a full featured version will be available soon."
thechut 12y ago
Wondering why the Android app is 'incompatible' with my Nexus 6. Where can I get the APK?
- mawburn 12y ago
  Probably just their settings. I installed on a Nexus 5 with Lollipop just fine.
hyperliner 12y ago
iPad only? I am out.
espitia 12y ago
I'm glad. Skype for iOS has so many bugs it is incredible.
Tepix 12y ago
Is it just a coincidence that Skype changed their AUP last week, requesting a license to all content transmitted via Skype (point 5.7 of their legalese)? That ought to scare some people away. To Wire?
- mdda 12y ago
  I don't see that Skype get a license to the content, only that you should have the rights to distribute it (http://www.skype.com/en/legal/tou-usa/#5 http://www.skype.com/en/legal/tou-usa/#5), and that they have the right to "take it down" if they feel like it.
pretz 12y ago
When showing off a brand new app with no existing userbase, please show or tell what your app does before waxing poetic about its beauty. If it hadn't been for the HN headline, I wouldn't have stayed on this page long enough to see what the app did. CORRECTION: I missed the intro animation when I opened the link in a background tab, and somehow got left with a masthead image with just three icons on a blank phone, not even the download link it showed after I refreshed.
VieElm 12y ago
This site looks broken with EFF's HTTPS everywhere.
mrsaint 12y ago
Something here I don't understand. First, the terms state that there are two kinds of governing laws: One for those using the service outside the US, and one for those from the US. This is the first time I see a supposedly non-US company applying two different laws. Also, if you go through the terms, you see that basically any legal aspect is governed by the County of San Francisco, California. Why not Switzerland where the company was supposedly formed and is located in? Second, as of right now, there is no mentioning of a "Wire Swiss GmbH" in the Swiss commercial registry. That's quite severe because under Swiss law, you are not allowed to represent to the outside a juristic person as long as it is not in the official registry. Here is the link to the registry: http://zefix.ch/zfx-cgi/hrform.cgi/hraPage?alle_eintr=on&pers_sort=original&pers_num=0&language=4&col_width=366&amt=007 http://zefix.ch/zfx-cgi/hrform.cgi/hraPage?alle_eintr=on&per...
- AhtiK 12y ago
  The Mac App Store app [1] is submitted by "Zeta Project Swiss GmbH" which does exist in the registry [2]. [1] https://itunes.apple.com/app/wire/id931134707?mt=12 https://itunes.apple.com/app/wire/id931134707?mt=12 [2] http://www.hrazg.ch/webservices/inet/HRG/HRG.asmx/getHRGHTML?chnr=1704011490&amt=170&toBeModified=0&validOnly=0&lang=4&sort=0 http://www.hrazg.ch/webservices/inet/HRG/HRG.asmx/getHRGHTML...
  - mrsaint 12y ago
    Interesting. Judging from this LinkedIn page [1], Wire Swiss GmbH has been around since at least March 2014, and has between 50-200 employees [2]. My guess: they renamed Zeta Project to Wire, but didn't want to wait with the announcement until it's updated in the registry? Still not sure what's up with the two governing laws. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/pub/pierrine-auberson/5a/70a/537 https://www.linkedin.com/pub/pierrine-auberson/5a/70a/537 [2] https://www.linkedin.com/company/4836762 https://www.linkedin.com/company/4836762
- Schweigi 12y ago
  Based on the address I would guess its only a mailbox anyway.
TheMagicHorsey 12y ago
The title of this article is hipster-bait. Someone claims something is a Skype-killer while not supporting 95% of Skype users (who are on PCs). Its ridiculous on the face of it.
aet 12y ago
Where is the pricing?
- jkaljundi 12y ago
  It's free.
skrowl 12y ago
Skype Killer... No Windows client. Oh Hacker News, you do realize that very few people actually use Macs in the business world, right?
rip747 12y ago
how is this a Skype killer? Not for nothing, but for $2.99 a month I can anywhere with Skype. There is no information on the site about pricing, coverage or restrictions. Maybe I'm not the majority of Skype users, but I use Skype as a replacement for a second phone in my office. I'm not using it as a messager, picture/video uploader or whatever else this thing does, again, I'm using it as a low cost phone line. From what I see on the website, I can see this competing with SnapChat, Instagram or whatever other messaging client, but not Skype.
tobych 12y ago
This sentence on the App Store page needs fixing: "Wire works on iOS and OS X, it is inspired by and developed for the latest in hardware."
lowlevel 12y ago
No video and no win32/64. Skype wins by default.
mrkris 12y ago
I'd love to replace my company Skype with a client/service that has an API, that I can script bots for, and has great support for both mobile and desktop.
espadrine 12y ago
Two things of interest: - They use Scala on Android[1] - They plan on a full-browser version[2]; I assume it'll rely on WebRTC. The fact that they don't indicate plans on a specific browser makes me happy. [1]: http://jobdb.softgarden.de/jobdb/public/jobdb/posting/126982/0/0/Scala+on+Android+Software+Developer.html http://jobdb.softgarden.de/jobdb/public/jobdb/posting/126982... [2]: https://www.wire.com/download/ https://www.wire.com/download/
shapeshed 12y ago
Good luck but I'm not really sure how this product is differentiating from other bundled voip and messaging products other than better UX/UI. Where is the revenue model and where are the open APIs into the service? Messaging is becoming really saturated now. User experience might get you some of the way there but interoperability with things outside your walled garden is also important for success IMHO.
Zaheer 12y ago
Anyone know the stack they're running?
72deluxe 12y ago
All the comments on here are very witty. This Wire app is only available for iOS and recent versions of Android (no joy for me on 4.1 on my obviously ANCIENT Xperia S that still functions fine), and only available for OSX. Great for me on OSX but not for my chums on Windows. Buying a Mac makes for an expensive application price, no? But in all seriousness I recall having great IM with MSN Messenger about 15 years ago, and despite the incessant barrage of replacement apps, there is still no one leader. Sure, we now have Facetime so I can irritate my mum at all times of the day but that's no good for my brother on Windows. And I find Skype to be a massive battery hog on my laptop, and an advert-infested mess on Windows. Is anyone else like me, and just sticking to SMS and emails? The other day on a BBC News article it mentioned "if you're a bit old fashioned and use email"... but I think email is great because you can archive it offline (I have useful emails from years ago) and it can also be used in court I think. IM logs - are they evidence in court? All the old chat logs get tidied up from all the IM systems I come across, so there is no referring back to old messages, or a paper trail. EDIT: I'm getting downvoted, not sure why? In all seriousness is email really broken that we need another IM system? Obviously the lack of video calling is a big problem....
deleted 12y ago
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EwanG 12y ago
Amusing, given their past history with Skype, that this is not available for Windows Phone. Which is too bad as my SO carries a Lumia 1020 and if she can't use it I can't really use it either.
deleted 12y ago
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egrepnix 12y ago
Personally I'll wait for Hemlis (http://heml.is http://heml.is) to be released (even if it doesn't do everything Wire does).
jhonnycano 12y ago
seems buggy to me when you can't even register to the platform :(
errordeveloper 12y ago
Terrific.
schnable 12y ago
The first selling point is "it's beautiful?" That's not selling anything.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > The first selling point is "it's beautiful?" That's not selling anything. Its selling aesthetics rather than function, which may not be important to you, but it may be important to the customer they think they want to target.
yitchelle 12y ago
Have anyone read more marketing speak than this website? "It’s pure. With Wire you can easily move from messages and pictures to HD voice. Wire’s pristine audio quality makes it feel as if the people you are speaking to are right there with you." I don't even know what this means? I mean, will quality still be "right there with you" if the latency on the network is large? or if you phone is loaded doing some task in the background? So much of this kind of stuff is hard to guarantee because it is outside of your control.
phmagic 12y ago
Good case of veneer design vs functional design.
dcre 12y ago
Weird that no one here is talking about voice quality, which was what stood out to me as most interesting about the product. I've wondered for a while why, if we can handle something as high-bandwidth as video chat, we can't do higher-fidelity audio chat over data. But I just tried it and it sounded more or less the same as a normal cell voice call. Also the UI is pretty but slow-feeling on Android. I have a feeling it's smoother on iOS. Disappointing.
- melq 12y ago
  Could the quality of the phone's microphone be the reason for the low-fi voice audio?
  - dcre 12y ago
    It's possible, but I doubt it. The person on the other end was using a Nexus 6. I don't know first-hand how its microphone is, but I know my (high-end Android) phone can record voice memos with much higher sound quality than I typically hear from a phone call.
- jonalmeida 12y ago
  That may be because when you install it, you realize you don't have any one you know using the app. Your first action on any new social product, is to spam every action possible against one close friend to see what they all do. I'd like to try voice calling since some of the Android reviews say the same thing about the quality, but I've yet the chance to do so..
fit2rule 12y ago
Anyone know why it won't run on a Nexus 7 tablet?
andrew_clapham 12y ago
Installed on Android. I went to invite a friend to try it out, there is no invite or share feature. Hope this helps!

498 points by jkaljundi 12y ago

a3_nm 12y ago

Sadly, it seems as proprietary and centralized as Skype is.

Top video is broken on Firefox. This has been happening more and more these days; entire, diverse development teams and they're all on Chrome.

lumberjack 12y ago

I recently discovered SIP-based softphone software (ex. Ekiga). I works great, is easy to use and completely free of charge and registration is minimal (you just need a SIP account). I really don't get why people would pay for Skype when there are better alternatives around.

ponyous 12y ago

Oh its everywhere! Except... Windows, Linux, BlackBerry, Windows Phone, Web... iOS, OS X and Android is far from everywhere.

iamtew 12y ago
And no love for Sailfish OS as usual :-(
- claudius 12y ago
  On the other hand, if it’s any good, there’ll be an open Sailfish-only app for it soon?
  - iamtew 12y ago
    I doubt it. The problems with apps in Sailfish is that their appstore doesn't seem to support any payment for apps, so all the apps need to be free. I think this is maybe not giving incentive for people to actively develop on that platform unfortunately. But perhaps someone comes up with a free app, you never know...
LukaD 12y ago
I can understand why they wouldn't support Linux/Blackberry/WP. As a Linux user I'm used to that. But not having windows support? Really?
- lmedinas 12y ago
  For Windows probably will be the Browser extension/addon which according to other comments will be using WebRTC.
  - locusm 12y ago
    They are releasing a full Windows client soon.
Sarkie 12y ago
#1 issue.
Khao 12y ago
I don't get why they decided an OS X app was more important to release than a browser app... A browser app reaches a way bigger market share than an OS X one.
- jonalmeida 12y ago
  The Mac app is also pretty awkward on non-Yosemite computers; a very broken UI.

hudo 12y ago

If they put "win client coming soon, sign up for updates" to get how many people even want it, that would be at least something. But this "only ios and android" philosophy, i just don't get it. What kind of smart business decision has to be to rule out 80-90% of users!?

warcode 12y ago

"Skype-killers" without end-to-end encryption are useless.

tmikaeld 12y ago
My first thought as well, why change when nothing have changed.
beaner 12y ago
This is really all I want as well. There's tons of pretty messaging apps. Style isn't enough to sway me anymore - I want privacy. How hard is it to make a messaging app that makes encryption its #1 priority?
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  I've been following Tox with some interest. It's fairly new but fully open source, decentralized, end-to-end encryption, no account needed (people added via their unique bytestring). https://tox.im/ https://tox.im/
  - Xylemon 12y ago
    Tox has interested me more since it's inception, mainly because it's open source and completely relies on peer to peer connections. I've seen some other open source alternatives that aren't as light weight and still centralized to some degree. Wire, if it really wants to be a "Skype killer" in my opinion, should go open source and be more reassuring about how they are protecting our privacy.
  - corobo 12y ago
    I wish this one would market itself as a really good chat application first and privacy second. Privacy etc is of course important but it all feels far too tinfoil hat for myself and too technical I'd imagine for anyone else I know to bother with
- column 12y ago
  Pretty hard, but it's coming. See http://labs.bittorrent.com/bleep http://labs.bittorrent.com/bleep

NullReference 12y ago

"What we need is another messaging app" said nobody, ever. It looks pretty, but this is yet another app in the long list of "Skype killers" or "Voice/video/text" messaging. It seems like it's the default goto for anyone that can't think of something more interesting these days.

fizx 12y ago
We didn't need yet another IRC clone, and yet Slack seems to be cleaning up. The core value prop of the internet is easy communication. Don't be surprised when people continue to iterate on it.
- wamatt 12y ago
  To be fair, Slack is much more than simply an IRC clone
  - hueving 12y ago
    Right, because most IRC clones are free
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    Well, it apparently is a poor man's IRC clone with awesome UI bolted on top. I think a properly made modern IRC client would blow it out of the water.
- hackerboos 12y ago
  Slack was doing it for me until recently. I could paste code and it would format it correctly. It looked great although a bit sluggish at times. Then I tried to share a Pages document...
  - coldtea 12y ago
    So? Even if it turned out badly, that's one bug for a rather obscure use case that can be fixed anyway...

rattray 12y ago

Unless I'm missing something, this seems to be voice, IM, and multimedia only - no video chat.

akurilin 12y ago
I was going to say, I was expecting an app with a significantly better video chat experience, since that's what most people associate the word "Skype" with, not instant messaging.

ozcanesen 12y ago

Privacy agreements just a word without cryptographic technology background as supporter. Also "everwhere" not means "ios, osx, android". where is windows and linux desktop clients, even skype supports linux desktops today.

acqq 12y ago
And it's only iOS8. That also leaves out iPhone 4 and iPad 2. Skype works on both.
- trounce 12y ago
  I'm running iOS8 on an old iPad 2 just fine
  - Maarten88 12y ago
    > just fine How did you overclock it?
  - acqq 12y ago
    Please explain how.
  - smw 12y ago
    Agreed. Put 8.1.1 on iPad 2 last night. It's quite snappy. I'm not sure where this legend comes from?
phillc73 12y ago
I'm most surprised to see a new application launch without a Windows client. Is this a conscious marketing decision to not target the Windows user market? Is the market share of iOS, Android and OSx enough for these guys to succeed without a Windows client? The website notes that a browser client is coming soon, but nothing for native Windows.
- jarin 12y ago
  I'm pretty sure it just means that the developers at the company primarily use Macs.

nemasu 12y ago

Hmm, no Linux client ... and you 'have' to set a picture when you register? Really? I'm out.

aurora72 12y ago
No OSX Lion compatibility too. And they've put it on App Store as if it's the only way to distribute it. Looks like a BS.
- josh64 12y ago
  Not many people seem to use Lion these days though. An app that I work on has less than 6% (of the 13,000 users who have opted in to providing system stats) on Lion.
- aurora72 12y ago
  >> Not many people seem to use Lion these days though. An app that I work on has less than 6% (of the 13,000 users who have opted in to providing system stats) on Lion. Locking an app to a version of OS is still a bad practice, particularly for an app aiming to network effect. I have Viber and it works on my Lion! Btw, I think that Viber blows away the competition by having everything: VoIP, Pic,Video, Message all for free!
- jawngee 12y ago
  It doesn't run on GS/OS either. Unbelievable.

flexie 12y ago

Skype has video chat. So far Wire only has audio. Skype can call a regular phone or receive calls from a regular phone. It seems like Wire can't, yet. Skype has all my contacts, Wire has none, yet. Let's call it a Skype killer if it kills Skype. Not yet.

sjimdickens 12y ago
+1 totally agreed
return0 12y ago
even my browser has video chat , basically a lot more than that (e.g. https://github.com/muaz-khan/WebRTC-Experiment https://github.com/muaz-khan/WebRTC-Experiment)
MichaelGG 12y ago
Of course this is early. OTOH, when Skype launched, it had a sub-standard feature set, and even kept it's shitty UI around. Messenger was dominating, supported video/audio/etc. (As did NetMeeting). Yet MS fucked that one up and just let Skype and FB takeover. So it's not inconceivable that MS could repeat the same thing again.

NKCSS 12y ago

"Wire is everywhere!" - No windows phone client :P

ethana 12y ago
Or Windows for that matter.
jagermo 12y ago
- or Blackberry client.

mrmondo 12y ago

While I welcome more competition since Skype really gone down hill after being bought by Microsoft, however this applications website doesn't give any useful information on the encryption used - it would be good to see if it supports OTR style encryption.

nikolak 12y ago

It's not everywhere, it has no video chat, and nobody uses it. If it somehow manages to "kill" anything it definitely won't be Skype.

jagermo 12y ago

No Windows-version? No killer.

rcarmo 12y ago

sigh it seems I'll eventually have to update this: http://the.taoofmac.com/space/blog/2014/11/13/0830#the-instant-mess-we-re-in http://the.taoofmac.com/space/blog/2014/11/13/0830#the-insta...

scalayer 12y ago

Does anyone else feel like we're in the midst of another 1990's instant messaging war? Except now with smartphones!

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
cJ0th 12y ago
Yeah and this implies that people by and large still aren't tech savvy (enough). This is very unfortunate as we have to use the software most people are wiling to tolerate. Ironically, in most of my use cases e-mail is the best solution for communication. It is based on widely accepted protocols [there is an abundance of e-mail clients you can choose from without fearing compatibility issues], delivery is (most of the time) almost instant and it is up to you which provider you use (or you can even host an e-mail server yourself). It's also good concerning encryption in that you can agree with each of your contacts whether or not you want to use some form of it. In contrast, messenger like Facebook don't give you a choice and OTR is not something everyone is willing to learn about.

alandarev 12y ago

Skype killer? Granted most Skype users are Windows PC users, how an application not available for Windows can threaten Skype?

vog 12y ago
While I agree that "Skype killer" is a hyperbole, I guess the idea is that the "Windows PC" people will switch to using their smart phone instead. Also, there is a "Browser - coming soon" button, indicating that they do target larger computers in a portable way.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

hagsteel 12y ago

This was probably a big effort from the people who developed Wire. I'm sure lots of development time has gone in to the product with many difficult problems to solve, so to all the developers of Wire: Good work! It probably feels a bit defeating to spend all that time developing something only to have people slating it. That said: I do not think this app is for me. I wish it had a more compact interface (like old Skype for OSX), before Skype became this large take-over-the-screen app, and reading that it might not have video chat kind of kills it for me.

liotier 12y ago

Documented open protocol or GTFO !

jbb555 12y ago

Horrible website

zl4000 12y ago
Yeah, I can't believe this crap has become de-facto web design.
- diminish 12y ago
  I am also stunned by the horrible usability of the web site. Who really inspires those people to make many UX mistake on one simple page?

zecg 12y ago

Marketing, marketing everywhere. Is the protocol open?

jkaljundi 12y ago

Some background: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/03/wire-communications-skype-janus-friis-app http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/03/wire-commu...

salimmadjd 12y ago

The UI is beautiful. However, differentiating on UI for an app that's about communication can only take you so far. I think some users will be initially wowed by all the nice colors etc. but the app is about chatting, sending images, text and taking, and no amount of beautiful color is going to impact that. I know how long it takes to make things pretty, I'm wondering if this was a right decision vs. investing their time on something else that is more core to their value (communication). I think there is a lot of room to innovate around ease of communication, texting, chatting, etc. on the mobile space and we'll see more apps and probably another $Billon exit. edit: typo

dzhiurgis 12y ago

Skype is the most resource hungry app on my Mac. It deserves to die. Unfortunately I am forced to resort using it whenever FaceTime fails. And that happens approx. every 15nth call.

super_mario 12y ago
Really? I use it on variety of Macs (2008 Mac Pro, 2011 27'' iMac, 2007 24'' iMac, 2008 Aluminum Macbook, 2011 17'' Macbook Pro) and it runs smoothly and doesn't use much CPU at all on any of them. During video calls it will use more CPU but that's somewhat expected (Factime video calls do too).
- dzhiurgis 12y ago
  It beats Safari and Chrome by CPU time and packets sent by orders of magnitude. Of course Chrome and Safari processes are separated nowadays, but still they do have some central stuff.

ape4 12y ago

I like how Wire and Telegram are referencing old tech. I prediction the next Skype killer will be called Morse or Flip Phone.

warrenmiller 12y ago

Could they not get any more Hipsters on that page?

sergiotapia 12y ago
I know right. I guess that's their target demo.

imron 12y ago

I'll sure it'll be great... just like the original Skype - and then they'll sell it again and it will get worse.

huslage 12y ago

Talko? Blah blah.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

incidence 12y ago

On Linux google hangouts voice call quality is much better than Skype's

crystaln 12y ago

The most compelling feature of Skype was end-to-end encryption - that is before Microsoft centralized the service, subjected it to man-in-the-middle attacks, and partnered with the Chinese government to produce a back-doored version Tom-Skype. The app page says "Wire interactions are secure and we comply with European privacy laws and regulations." That's just not enough.

AhtiK 12y ago
Skype still has end-to-end encryption. But Skype also has the private keys for every user which renders end-to-end encryption "less useful". Sadly they have always had the keys, from the beginning. Tom skype just made content more accessible to the "interested parties".

johnchristopher 12y ago

A `Skype killer` not available on Windows computer ? That's not going to kill Skype.

julianpye 12y ago

What Skype has and what any of the newcomer will struggle to get is my extended family. My mum and dad, lots of uncles and aunts, some of which over 80 year old all use Skype every day. It is a big challenge to move any of these people to new technology, even if it would offer a real advantage for them, which no real newcomer does at the moment.

deanclatworthy 12y ago

> Wire interactions are secure and we comply with European privacy laws and regulations. Which basically means as soon as a warrant is sent from pretty much any European government they'll hand over all your conversations. The support article doesn't give any detail whatsoever on how they encrypt your conversations: https://support.wire.com/hc/en-us/articles/203122500-Are-messages-and-calls-encrypted- https://support.wire.com/hc/en-us/articles/203122500-Are-mes... It's a shame companies can't be held accountable for advertising their services as secure, for false advertising.

blumkvist 12y ago
Huh? Which company will not give records if subpoenaed? PS: Of course companies can be held accountable for false advertising. You can take them to court yourself.
- netheril96 12y ago
  The company that does not have records to begin with, when the encryption is truly end-to-end.
psykovsky 12y ago
> Wire interactions are secure and we comply with European privacy laws and regulations. Marketing double-speak.

skc 12y ago

I'm a little curious. I use Skype semi regularly and it seems to work just fine for me. But it seems everyone here hates it. Are there some "power user" features that don't work well or something?

gurkendoktor 12y ago
- Impossible to grok as a network admin, as it aggressively tries to work on EVERY network (even when only port 80 is available etc.) - The transition from P2P to centralised means that we enjoy all the downsides of a centralised system (hello NSA) AND all the downsides of P2P (no reliable offline messages, esp. with multiple devices) - The iPhone version is 100% custom UI, looks and acts like a Windows Phone app, and has dropped several features (App Store reviews have not been very favourable) - Closed source, non-sandboxed and from a surveillance-friendly company - A resource hog That said, Wire looks like a complete non-starter to me.

13 12y ago

Doesn't require a mobile number to sign up, that's new. Privacy policy is predictably gritty though.

sanketbajoria 12y ago

I will definitely try this

ps4fanboy 12y ago

Not surprised this is from ex-Skype people, no desktop. Quality isnt something I have attached to the skype brand.

skratlo 12y ago

They won't use a standard protocol even if it makes lots of sense for the users. For them, they fear being commoditized as a result of using a standard. Same reason why Hangouts will stop being available through XMPP anytime soon. It's very sad that these companies are so short-sighted, and can only think of small profit for themselves.

vjvj 12y ago

We should all just get over our prejudices and download BBM which is the closest app to a Skype killer that I've used. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

ulfw 12y ago

Why does Skype needs to be 'killed' by ex-Skype people again and how does that benefit consumers exactly?

noelwelsh 12y ago

Skype has kinda been the hot potato company that everyone wanted to buy but, once acquired, no-one could figure out how to actually make money from. Will Wire be any different? One argument is that is doesn't matter. Messaging is such an attractive market that people just continue to invest in it. Telecos certainly didn't have any problems making money back in their hay-day, and there is the "get all the eyeballs and monetize later" argument that is still popular. Perhaps as consumers we're just doomed to switch platforms every 5-10 yrs as companies rise and then fizzle out. Perhaps churn is the price we pay for free messaging? FWIW I did pay for Skype for a short while, as I needed some features, but then their billing structure changed and other free products became popular so I stopped.

secfirstmd 12y ago

So in the age of Edward Snowden this is all they say about encryption... "Are Messages And Calls Encrypted? Yes. Wire uses industry-standard encryption on all of your Wire messages and calls." "WHAT SECURITY MEASURES DO WE TAKE TO SAFEGUARD YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION? We are concerned about safeguarding the confidentiality of your information. We provide physical, electronic, and procedural safeguards to protect information we process and maintain. In addition, we restrict access to personal information to Company employees who need to know this information in order to develop, operate and maintain the Service." Come on guys...how can anything this vague be trusted? And by European they mean Swiss, so not specifically EU. One of the typical evasive phrases... From the Guardian Article: "Locating its head office in Switzerland was Wire’s first decision taken on security grounds. “If someone is interested in accessing our user data, there’s a formal and well-regulated process in Switzerland for that. They’re very mindful of privacy, and the same is true in Germany." Swiss naturally implies safety for many people (which is deceptive...real, verifiable, audited, end to end encryption is safety), for anyone unsure about the reality of "Swiss" cooperation with NSA since the 70s, read about Crypto AG http://mediafilter.org/caq/cryptogate/ http://mediafilter.org/caq/cryptogate/ For those wondering about "Swiss privacy laws," if you are a foreign national you are effectively fair game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx_%28interception_system%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx_%28interception_system%29 http://www.iclg.co.uk/practice-areas/telecoms-media-and-internet-laws/telecoms,-media-and-internet-laws-and-regulations/switzerland http://www.iclg.co.uk/practice-areas/telecoms-media-and-inte...

tomp 12y ago
Exactly. Complying with "all messages encrypted" is equivalent to simply using HTTPS (and equivalent for voice). But this doesn't make it safe against MITM attacks, side-channel attacks and government subpoenas!
bndr 12y ago
You should consider that most other messengers offer no such promises, even vague ones.
- vog 12y ago

pearjuice 12y ago

More fragmentation, great. I cannot help but think how this time I will again convince my contacts to migrate to yet another messaging app. I should probably ask the contacts on WhatsApp first. Or rather Telegram? I think some people are still on Viber, too. My friends on Kik have just migrated from Whatsapp so I will approach them last. The app who can actually solve _this_ problem will be the next big thing. And if doesn't work, we have yet another messaging app.

dang 12y ago

Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692427 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8692140.

AhtiK 12y ago

Anyone who is interested in OTR (off the record) and peer to peer encryption, Wire is not for you. Please see https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/software.php https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/software.php for suggestions which might be reliable as of today. Everyone else who feels good about keeping their messages safely stored for later inspection, use Wire or any other chat client that "looks beautiful", "is pure" and blends yt videos nicely into your feed. EDIT: Do not take my comment as a critique or sarcasm against Wire. There are different audiences for messaging apps and it's important to understand if you are the one before being negative about privacy policy and encryption.

kashif 12y ago
For off the record try - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.hushes https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.hushes

spiritplumber 12y ago

Are they going to have some kind of API? I loved being able to programmatically send and read Skype messages on Android, until it stopped working. Also, will it work with Linphone?

michaelmior 12y ago
I sure hope so. No decent API is my biggest gripe about Skype. We found Skype to be a great team chat tool although it was frustrating not being able to connect external services.

steffandroid 12y ago

Strange decision to solely target Android 4.4 and above, that means it's only compatible with about 34% of Android devices.

Istof 12y ago
I wonder which feature that they need that is only present in 4.4+

ugdev 12y ago

Actually it is not that hard to create a better product than Skype. Skype sucks in so many ways that i wouldn't know where to beginn. Exchange developers, exchange the designer and the UI team. Hate it - but use it every single day.

joeyspn 12y ago

No, the Skype killer has another name: WebRTC. And Wire seems like yet another closed-source GUI making use of the WebRTC stack. I honestly prefer FOSS solutions: Tox, oTalk, Jitsi, etc... oTalk looks really promising

jkaljundi 12y ago
Have not heard mainstream users or kids or grannys using any of those? Are they popular?
- amandine 12y ago
  IMO the ideal world is one where everyone can use their preferred app and still be able to chat and VoIP with everyone else... Like email basically...
lmedinas 12y ago
I'm surprised nobody here mentioned Firefox Hello, which seems also to be using WebRTC. Of course it's not fully cross-platform but afaik you can do connections between Firefox and other browsers using WebRTC.
amandine 12y ago
What about matrix.org who's trying to fix the fragmentation by providing an open standardized signalling layer for WebRTC? Might interest you too! We've been working on integrating with Jitsi, although not finished yet
- joeyspn 12y ago
  Nice project. Have you hear about OpenPeer? They're doing a similar thing... providing an open standardized signalling (P2P) layer for WebRTC... http://openpeer.org/ http://openpeer.org/
  - amandine 12y ago
    Yes we're in touch with them. Matrix and Open Peer are complementary technologies - Matrix is focused entirely on the client/server use-case for messaging between always-on persistent federated messaging stores. Open Peer is obviously focused on adhoc p2p messaging without much persistent serverside history.

csomar 12y ago

I signed up and downloaded the app (android). 1. The App uses different non-standard patterns. It's really a pain to use and navigate. 2. The design is cool and I like it. 3. I should be able to find users by ID or similar. Who wants to test this thing can add me (contact -at- omarabid.com )

sly010 12y ago
4. You can't seem to actually call phones, which is why everyone uses Skype. Or did I miss something? Notably, all videochat apps makes desktops super hot while their mobile equivalent works fine. My humble guess is because on iOS/Android they are using the hardware accelerated codecs (due to the lack of other options), while on desktop they just assume the CPU can do everything. I will be interested to see how Wire performs in that regard. I am doing a lot telecommuting and have a frequently remote relationship, so I try a bunch of these apps. Here is the thing: I don't care about beautiful interfaces when it comes to full screen videochat. So far the best experience I had was with oovoo, which was simultaneously the ugliest software at the time. Perhaps Wire will be successful for the same reason Slack is: it just works (I have yet to see).

pisarzp 12y ago

The UI may look pretty, but its totally unusable for me. It took me ages to figure out how to make a call.

gurkendoktor 12y ago

Am I such an outlier if I use Skype for business, not for leisure? I have clients on three continents and every single one used Skype to communicate about the project. Skype was generally running on every machine as a "watercooler chat"/IRC replacement. Just open groups, give them names and pin them to the sidebar. Done. So I really expected this to be more secure, more portable and LESS designer-driven. Who is even narcissistic enough to use a sidebar that is a giant, high-res portrait of oneself?! Maybe a Slack/HipChat/... killer for boutique agencies?

gcb0 12y ago
i like to joke there are two types of tech companies, mutually exclusive. - profit driven - investor money driven skype is a profit company. wire is clearly investor money driven. So while your example is valid, i don't think they want to displace the corporate consumer that creates the bulky of skype profit. It probably wants to go after the users that uses snapchat/wasup/etc for free, with little revenue besides what is necessary for a "revenue" round A/B/C/IPO deck, and get investor money/get acquired. PS: while skype is a consumer product, its job is not to drive revenue, but to advertise the corporate solution: Lync. Lync gets microsoft 2bi/yr, while skype peak at 600m/yr in a good year. 600m sounds good, but not when you paid over 8bi for it.
- rplnt 12y ago
  Sadly, we mostly hear about those investor money driven companies.
  - gregpilling 12y ago
    They have money to hire staff to do PR. Bootstrapped companies are often cash strapped for a long time before they can afford PR people. Founders are told to do it, but reality of running a company gets in the way.
- danyork 12y ago
  And curiously, Microsoft is replacing "Lync" with "Skype for Business".... although I'm not sure if that is a simple renaming of the existing client.

Macha 12y ago

To contact everyone I know I need: * Skype * XMPP * Hangouts * AIM * YIM * SMS * Facebook * IRC * Viber (which I don't use, because yet another client was too much when all these people had other clients anyway). Another client is just a no go at this stage. I'm still annoyed at Skype blocking both multiple network IM clients I used (imo first, then when they dropped the whole "multiple network" part, IM+).

sly010 12y ago
If Skype allowed that (without having to run the original client), they wouldn't make any money. On a related note, is there any multi network app that supports video?
- hjst 12y ago
  > On a related note, is there any multi network app that supports video? Yes, both Pidgin and Empathy support voice and video calling via XMPP. I suspect you'd need to use a "standard" XMPP server though - it wouldn't work over gtalk or facebook chat for instance.
NKCSS 12y ago
No WhatsApp? :)
- Macha 12y ago
  Not big in my country, actually. (That said, neither is AIM, but generally people I know abroad don't ask about Whatsapp. Yet anyway.)
e12e 12y ago
Wow, AIM's not dead? With the stuff happening at Yahoo, one would think they might just go ahead and move to XMPP (and enable server federation for good measure...). BTW: If you have XMPP anyway, you can use that for chat.facebook.com. Shame with Hangouts. But everyone wants their golden silo, I guess.

anon4 12y ago

A skype killer... that doesn't run on windows or linux.

hactually 12y ago
I read the blurb, liked the look and thought "why not?". I clicked download and don't see Linux, or even a browser option. It's not a skype killer - it's more prettier Whatsapp alternative without the market share. Honestly, if whatsapp did a browser/desktop client I'd be on that before this even got a second look

Smrchy 12y ago

Nice first impression. Some issues though: No video chat. That's the main thing i use skype for. Sound goes through my Macs default settings. I can change the microphone to my headset but not the output. If i change the output to headset it will also change this for my music which is annoying.

JulianMorrison 12y ago

"This app is incompatible with all your devices" Well, then.

algorithm_dk 12y ago

From my initial investigation they have some <bad> code behind, race conditions and I think I found a place where it's leaking the IP of the guy you're calling. I'll post my findings later. Messages are sent over SSL but not encrypted in any other way, so they can read them :)

sly010 12y ago

Am I the only one who realised there is no videochat in Wire?

mrtimuk 12y ago

..and please let there be decent keyboard shortcuts (I'm looking at you, Skype)

Aardwolf 12y ago

Why no download for Linux? Why is this always still happening? If you want to make this thing really everywhere, then imho priority numbero 1 should be to rely on libraries that work everywhere - not just the latest version of a select few OSes. It'll be easier to maintain in the future as well.

feld 12y ago
It's not year of Linux on the desktop yet, and never will be. Sorry.

dzohrob 12y ago

Can anyone explain to me what "full democracy" means in this context? From the page: "It’s on. Wire is perfect for staying connected with any group. Create a conversation, name it as you wish, and add people — your groups will be taking off whether they’re about work, family or fun. Oh, and Wire groups are full democracy."

lesingerouge 12y ago

Having some slight experience in the publishing and content industry, any title that contains the word "killer" is for me a big fat sign for "bulls#$t". I will still pick trusted recommendations[1] over advertising any day. [1] https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard

Nanjingguy 12y ago

So many colors....and so much text. Are there any pictures at all? Or is my Chinese internet just too slow?

chdir 12y ago

That domain name would have been one expensive purchase. I wonder if there's any significant correlation between buying an expensive domain upfront & success rate. That aside, It has spent most of it's life being parked with ads. https://web.archive.org/web/*/wire.com https://web.archive.org/web/*/wire.com

johnward 12y ago
I often wonder about price when I see great domain names like this. Sometimes they seem to boost the product and many times it doesn't matter. I saw a post on reddit about examine.com. I think the guy said he paid like 40k for the domain and he believes it was a big part of why they were growing. He basically said that he had money from previous business selling and he figured even if the site didn't work out the domain name would get him back most of that money if not more if he had to resell it.
- SoloX5 12y ago
  That's me!
  - johnward 12y ago
    oh hai. So was what I said correct? When I had money I used to scarf up domain names for any idea I had. Some of them were decent but I don't think I've ever sold a single one. Eventually just let them all expire after holding them for like 6 years.
    - SoloX5 12y ago
      Yup 100%. Worst case, I could have still turned it around and immediately sold it for 25k. If I was more patient, likely 35k. To me, ignoring the opportunity cost of the cash itself, it was a ~10k risk. Worth it.

krick 12y ago

I understand it's their business and all, but I don't see why we need one more not-opensource messenger app. As we don't have enough. Sure, somebody will use it, but it's all about marketing now and I only can hope they'll fail. Nothing interesting here.

locusm 12y ago

https://twitter.com/wire/status/540139385660772352 https://twitter.com/wire/status/540139385660772352 "Thank you for the good feedback on Wire. For Windows users — a full featured version will be available soon."

thechut 12y ago

Wondering why the Android app is 'incompatible' with my Nexus 6. Where can I get the APK?

mawburn 12y ago
Probably just their settings. I installed on a Nexus 5 with Lollipop just fine.

hyperliner 12y ago

iPad only? I am out.

espitia 12y ago

I'm glad. Skype for iOS has so many bugs it is incredible.

Tepix 12y ago

Is it just a coincidence that Skype changed their AUP last week, requesting a license to all content transmitted via Skype (point 5.7 of their legalese)? That ought to scare some people away. To Wire?

mdda 12y ago
I don't see that Skype get a license to the content, only that you should have the rights to distribute it (http://www.skype.com/en/legal/tou-usa/#5 http://www.skype.com/en/legal/tou-usa/#5), and that they have the right to "take it down" if they feel like it.

pretz 12y ago

When showing off a brand new app with no existing userbase, please show or tell what your app does before waxing poetic about its beauty. If it hadn't been for the HN headline, I wouldn't have stayed on this page long enough to see what the app did. CORRECTION: I missed the intro animation when I opened the link in a background tab, and somehow got left with a masthead image with just three icons on a blank phone, not even the download link it showed after I refreshed.

VieElm 12y ago

This site looks broken with EFF's HTTPS everywhere.

mrsaint 12y ago

Something here I don't understand. First, the terms state that there are two kinds of governing laws: One for those using the service outside the US, and one for those from the US. This is the first time I see a supposedly non-US company applying two different laws. Also, if you go through the terms, you see that basically any legal aspect is governed by the County of San Francisco, California. Why not Switzerland where the company was supposedly formed and is located in? Second, as of right now, there is no mentioning of a "Wire Swiss GmbH" in the Swiss commercial registry. That's quite severe because under Swiss law, you are not allowed to represent to the outside a juristic person as long as it is not in the official registry. Here is the link to the registry: http://zefix.ch/zfx-cgi/hrform.cgi/hraPage?alle_eintr=on&pers_sort=original&pers_num=0&language=4&col_width=366&amt=007 http://zefix.ch/zfx-cgi/hrform.cgi/hraPage?alle_eintr=on&per...

AhtiK 12y ago
The Mac App Store app [1] is submitted by "Zeta Project Swiss GmbH" which does exist in the registry [2]. [1] https://itunes.apple.com/app/wire/id931134707?mt=12 https://itunes.apple.com/app/wire/id931134707?mt=12 [2] http://www.hrazg.ch/webservices/inet/HRG/HRG.asmx/getHRGHTML?chnr=1704011490&amt=170&toBeModified=0&validOnly=0&lang=4&sort=0 http://www.hrazg.ch/webservices/inet/HRG/HRG.asmx/getHRGHTML...
- mrsaint 12y ago
  Interesting. Judging from this LinkedIn page [1], Wire Swiss GmbH has been around since at least March 2014, and has between 50-200 employees [2]. My guess: they renamed Zeta Project to Wire, but didn't want to wait with the announcement until it's updated in the registry? Still not sure what's up with the two governing laws. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/pub/pierrine-auberson/5a/70a/537 https://www.linkedin.com/pub/pierrine-auberson/5a/70a/537 [2] https://www.linkedin.com/company/4836762 https://www.linkedin.com/company/4836762
Schweigi 12y ago
Based on the address I would guess its only a mailbox anyway.

TheMagicHorsey 12y ago

The title of this article is hipster-bait. Someone claims something is a Skype-killer while not supporting 95% of Skype users (who are on PCs). Its ridiculous on the face of it.

aet 12y ago

Where is the pricing?

jkaljundi 12y ago
It's free.

skrowl 12y ago

Skype Killer... No Windows client. Oh Hacker News, you do realize that very few people actually use Macs in the business world, right?

rip747 12y ago

how is this a Skype killer? Not for nothing, but for $2.99 a month I can anywhere with Skype. There is no information on the site about pricing, coverage or restrictions. Maybe I'm not the majority of Skype users, but I use Skype as a replacement for a second phone in my office. I'm not using it as a messager, picture/video uploader or whatever else this thing does, again, I'm using it as a low cost phone line. From what I see on the website, I can see this competing with SnapChat, Instagram or whatever other messaging client, but not Skype.

tobych 12y ago

This sentence on the App Store page needs fixing: "Wire works on iOS and OS X, it is inspired by and developed for the latest in hardware."

lowlevel 12y ago

No video and no win32/64. Skype wins by default.

mrkris 12y ago

I'd love to replace my company Skype with a client/service that has an API, that I can script bots for, and has great support for both mobile and desktop.

espadrine 12y ago

Two things of interest: - They use Scala on Android[1] - They plan on a full-browser version[2]; I assume it'll rely on WebRTC. The fact that they don't indicate plans on a specific browser makes me happy. [1]: http://jobdb.softgarden.de/jobdb/public/jobdb/posting/126982/0/0/Scala+on+Android+Software+Developer.html http://jobdb.softgarden.de/jobdb/public/jobdb/posting/126982... [2]: https://www.wire.com/download/ https://www.wire.com/download/

shapeshed 12y ago

Good luck but I'm not really sure how this product is differentiating from other bundled voip and messaging products other than better UX/UI. Where is the revenue model and where are the open APIs into the service? Messaging is becoming really saturated now. User experience might get you some of the way there but interoperability with things outside your walled garden is also important for success IMHO.

Zaheer 12y ago

Anyone know the stack they're running?

72deluxe 12y ago

All the comments on here are very witty. This Wire app is only available for iOS and recent versions of Android (no joy for me on 4.1 on my obviously ANCIENT Xperia S that still functions fine), and only available for OSX. Great for me on OSX but not for my chums on Windows. Buying a Mac makes for an expensive application price, no? But in all seriousness I recall having great IM with MSN Messenger about 15 years ago, and despite the incessant barrage of replacement apps, there is still no one leader. Sure, we now have Facetime so I can irritate my mum at all times of the day but that's no good for my brother on Windows. And I find Skype to be a massive battery hog on my laptop, and an advert-infested mess on Windows. Is anyone else like me, and just sticking to SMS and emails? The other day on a BBC News article it mentioned "if you're a bit old fashioned and use email"... but I think email is great because you can archive it offline (I have useful emails from years ago) and it can also be used in court I think. IM logs - are they evidence in court? All the old chat logs get tidied up from all the IM systems I come across, so there is no referring back to old messages, or a paper trail. EDIT: I'm getting downvoted, not sure why? In all seriousness is email really broken that we need another IM system? Obviously the lack of video calling is a big problem....

deleted 12y ago

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EwanG 12y ago

Amusing, given their past history with Skype, that this is not available for Windows Phone. Which is too bad as my SO carries a Lumia 1020 and if she can't use it I can't really use it either.

deleted 12y ago

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egrepnix 12y ago

Personally I'll wait for Hemlis (http://heml.is http://heml.is) to be released (even if it doesn't do everything Wire does).

jhonnycano 12y ago

seems buggy to me when you can't even register to the platform :(

errordeveloper 12y ago

Terrific.

schnable 12y ago

The first selling point is "it's beautiful?" That's not selling anything.

dragonwriter 12y ago
> The first selling point is "it's beautiful?" That's not selling anything. Its selling aesthetics rather than function, which may not be important to you, but it may be important to the customer they think they want to target.

yitchelle 12y ago

Have anyone read more marketing speak than this website? "It’s pure. With Wire you can easily move from messages and pictures to HD voice. Wire’s pristine audio quality makes it feel as if the people you are speaking to are right there with you." I don't even know what this means? I mean, will quality still be "right there with you" if the latency on the network is large? or if you phone is loaded doing some task in the background? So much of this kind of stuff is hard to guarantee because it is outside of your control.

phmagic 12y ago

Good case of veneer design vs functional design.

dcre 12y ago

Weird that no one here is talking about voice quality, which was what stood out to me as most interesting about the product. I've wondered for a while why, if we can handle something as high-bandwidth as video chat, we can't do higher-fidelity audio chat over data. But I just tried it and it sounded more or less the same as a normal cell voice call. Also the UI is pretty but slow-feeling on Android. I have a feeling it's smoother on iOS. Disappointing.

melq 12y ago
Could the quality of the phone's microphone be the reason for the low-fi voice audio?
- dcre 12y ago
  It's possible, but I doubt it. The person on the other end was using a Nexus 6. I don't know first-hand how its microphone is, but I know my (high-end Android) phone can record voice memos with much higher sound quality than I typically hear from a phone call.
jonalmeida 12y ago
That may be because when you install it, you realize you don't have any one you know using the app. Your first action on any new social product, is to spam every action possible against one close friend to see what they all do. I'd like to try voice calling since some of the Android reviews say the same thing about the quality, but I've yet the chance to do so..

fit2rule 12y ago

Anyone know why it won't run on a Nexus 7 tablet?

andrew_clapham 12y ago

Installed on Android. I went to invite a friend to try it out, there is no invite or share feature. Hope this helps!