25 ms·

Tesla Adds Titanium Underbody Shield and Aluminum Deflector Plates to Model S

631 points by austenallred 13y ago

crusso 13y ago
"This happened after the vehicle impacted a roundabout at 110 mph" My pity meter regarding the resulting vehicle fire doesn't seem to be moving.
- pistle 13y ago
  Let me send you an over the air update to your geek control unit. You're supposed to be cackling with joy along with Elon.
userbinator 13y ago
Very, very good idea. Personally I think the ground clearance is still a bit on the low side. It looks like it lost a bolt or something in the first impact image... oops.
- timdorr 13y ago
  Lost bolt versus a lost $40k battery pack? I'll take the bolt option, please :)
- smoyer 13y ago
  I noticed that too but can't tell whether it's a plastic "rivet". If you look at the plastic fairings on your car, you'll see that many are held to the body with a snap-fit plastic connector. These are also used as blind fittings on many interior panels (such as door panels). They break and detach often enough that my local hardware store carries the more common ones.
  - a1k0n 13y ago
    Definitely a plastic rivet. It's too pointy to be a bolt, and you can see the thin 'head' separated from the flange which releases it.
    - DEinspanjer 13y ago
      Yep, I can confirm, there are hundreds of those throughout the car to connect pieces that are either cosmetic or not tied to the safety or performance of the car. For instance, the plastic shell inside the frunk is connected to the car with them.
  - kordless 13y ago
    It's probably a plastic rivet holding the plastic aeroshield Elon mentions as the first line of impact absorption.
- jplur 13y ago
  I assumed that was part of the trailer hitch that was being run over.
- Varcht 13y ago
  You can never be too low! #flush
- twic 13y ago
  He's making cars which are implausibly high-tech, ridiculously well armoured, have inexplicably low ground clearance, and look rad. Elon Musk is Batman, and i claim my five pounds.
sz4kerto 13y ago
"However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds" I know this is not specific to Tesla, but it's still really cool. :)
- crusso 13y ago
  I realize that the suspension isn't unique to Tesla, but over-the-air software updates seem to be. It irks me to no end that I'm told that my Infiniti can't be updated to even work properly with my iPhone, much less the fact that they want to charge for gps map updates that are essentially free from Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.
  - iancarroll 13y ago
    I'm pretty sure map data is expensive and those companies license it.
    - crusso 13y ago
      I realize that they license it. I dispute that it's anything but a cash cow for those companies that charge $100-$300 for map updates that many other companies make available for free. I've purchased licenses for multiple software packages and at the scales that these car distributors work at, it's ridiculous to think that their actual gps data costs aren't nominal (ie, pennies) per vehicle.
    - maguay 13y ago
      They license it and give it away with several hundred dollar gadgets. Seems surprising that an auto manufacturer wouldn't do the same with their tens-or-hundreds-of-thousand dollars products.
    - twistedpair 13y ago
      The long term contracts with M2M interfaces for OTA updates are generally low bandwidth. Carriers are willing to sell these long term contracts because it consumes very little of their network capacity. If you started pushing out constant multi-gig map updates across them, then the price to operate their OTA infrastructure (their vendor) would massively increase. That's the point we're they'd probably have you download the update online and usb stick it to your car, assuming they were willing to eat the cost of new maps licenses.
utefan001 13y ago
Almost got the wording perfect! (under shield vs underbody shield) 1 point by utefan001 175 days ago | link I am sure it is easier said than done, but it seems like the batteries simply need to be better protected. Something like a carbon fiber or titanium under shield.
- freehunter 13y ago
  Wouldn't carbon fiber shatter in an impact though? It's light, but it doesn't seem like a good material for a skid plate.
zacharycohn 13y ago
"We believe these changes will also help prevent a fire resulting from an extremely high speed impact that tears the wheels off the car, like the other Model S impact fire, which occurred last year in Mexico. This happened after the vehicle impacted a roundabout at 110 mph, shearing off 15 feet of concrete curbwall and tearing off the left front wheel, then smashing through an eight foot tall buttressed concrete wall on the other side of the road and tearing off the right front wheel, before crashing into a tree. The driver stepped out and walked away with no permanent injuries and a fire, again limited to the front section of the vehicle, started several minutes later. The underbody shields will help prevent a fire even in such a scenario." This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
- unphasable 13y ago
  This is written in a semi-sarcastic/ passive aggressive tone to get across the point of how safe their vehicles already are. Very cheeky of Elon and his team.
  - lkmz 13y ago
    Let's not forget that Tesla recently issued a recall for 29,000 charging adapters because they would overheat and catch on fire. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/automobiles/citing-charging-concerns-tesla-issues-a-recall.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/automobiles/citing-chargin...
    - cykod 13y ago
      Come on dude, you make it sound like these things we're catching on fire all over the place - "... the number of incidents remains small, and Tesla’s review to date points to the building receptacle or wiring as the primary cause of failed NEMA 14-50 adapters, the company has determined that a voluntary recall is appropriate as a precautionary measure.”
    - MPetitt 13y ago
      And lets not forget how astonishing that is in light of what many other car manufacturers[0] do when they find issues that effect millions of their cars in a much more dangerous way. The fact that even with that issue, their safety numbers are through the roof and their number of incidents are way under the national average, and they still willingly and transparently issues a recall, I count that as nothing but a plus for Tesla. [0]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324669104578203440990704994 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142412788732466910...
martin_bech 13y ago
Always impressed in the companys ability to push things further. They will do to some of the current manufactures what Apple did to Blackberry and Nokia.
- Gustomaximus 13y ago
  I kinda feel Nokia self destructed more than it was destroyed by Apple. It was a sad journey to watch right up the the sale. But reminds me I should see what's the latest with Sailfish and Ubuntu Touch.
doe88 13y ago
Why would Elon choose to post on Medium and not on the blog of Tesla? It would definitively bring more credence to post it on their official website. Until reading near the end I wasn't sure it was a Tesla employee/official or a third party story (and I use the term story here and not article on purpose because usually on Medium it is more stories than facts).
- basicallydan 13y ago
  I was wondering the same thing, perhaps they're just giving it a go to see if it's a better platform for getting people to read their blog?
- corresation 13y ago
  Add that to Julie Zhuo (Designer @ Facebook) doing the same thing just a few hours ago and it makes for a very curious confluence, in both cases diminishing the immediate credibility of the articles.
  - steve_benjamins 13y ago
    Julie has been posting on Medium for a while though- this is I believe Elons first post on Medium.
- 001sky 13y ago
  Maybe Medium's new business plan is to compete with PR Newswire. Seriously. Its a nice little niche.
- whizzkid 13y ago
  Kimbal Musk is CEO of Medium and his brother. I guess that is enough to explain why :)
  - nbouscal 13y ago
    You're thinking of Me.dium, which turned into OneRiot and was then acquired by WalmartLabs. No relationship with Ev Williams's Medium. Also, Kimbal is on Tesla's board, so it's not just a family relationship.
eiji 13y ago
I'm sorry but my first reaction is "What a waste". Titanium is ridiculously expensive for various reasons. The best these engineers could come up with is to put a sheet of metal under the car? You got to be kidding me. I see why they have to use Titanium for it, anything else doesn't work, but it shows how far away this car is from reality and from true mass production.
- Varcht 13y ago
  Titanium alloy sheets are not that expensive. Something like what is shown in the video is probably less than $500. Seems like a pretty good value if it protects the batteries from damage on a $60,000 car.
  - Varcht 13y ago
    Also metal under shields are quite common as vehicle upgrades and not as novel as you might think.
- kordless 13y ago
  Your statements are in conflict with each other and are glued together with an ad hominem argument. You should focus on why you think increasing safety of a car beyond anything we've known thus far is a 'waste' instead of trying to use a simple bias to devalue the work they've put into it.
- Theodores 13y ago
  My feelings too. However, as much as I like steel, I find it incredible that most cars use very heavy materials, e.g. steel, instead of aluminium, plastic, carbon fibre and titanium. Such materials are common on bicycles and planes. Moving a tonne or two of steel around is a real waste, particularly when it rusts. At least with this wondercar the bottom is flat and aerodynamically sound, unlike all of those legacy vehicles out there.
  - johnward 13y ago
    Well, it's not like they can just redesign the entire platform at this point. Slapping some titanium on is probably the best move they can make right now. It should satisfy any government and customer concerns for a problem that was pretty rare to begin with. As for the other materials we've been using them sparingly in vehicles. The new Ford F150 is using much more aluminum, enough to bring the weight down by about 900 pounds. Yet people are still criticizing aluminum as a material choice. It's not hard to see that aluminum, carbon fiber and other light weight materials are the future of vehicles. Yet some people are still afraid because they associate heavy steal with strength. That aluminum hood is the only part on my old truck that is not rusting through. Lighters, stronger, no rust. Where is the negative?
ghshephard 13y ago
Are there any other car manufacturers that have similar levels of clearance? I'd be intrigued to see how they perform in the same test scenarios that the Teslas were run against.
- vermontdevil 13y ago
  The problem is the expectations for other car manufacturers are much lower in terms of safety. So these companies do not try to push the safety envelope any higher. The exception would be Volvo.
  - johnward 13y ago
    Yep. Imagine there are plenty of gasoline cars that have the potential for the gas tank to be punctured, and well that seems like it could turn out much worse. The problem is that electric vehicles are scrutinized to the point that Tesla actually has to defend the one of chance that something punctures the battery pack. A lot of gas tanks are visible under a car with a thin layer of steel protecting them. The straps holding the tank in my Ford truck rusted through. I had the optional off road package that includes a skid plat for the gas tank. Without that plate it certainly would have dropped and I can only guess what might happen. However, that recall got nowhere near the media coverage Tesla gets for anything. GM left bad ignition switches in the cobalt for something like 8 years. People died when the switched locked up.
    - DEinspanjer 13y ago
      Actually, in the particular case of an object such as the trailer hitch that can easily pike into the body of the car when struck, it is less likely that it would damage the fuel tank of an ICE than the battery compartment of the Model S because the gas tank on an ICE is at the rear, and the object would likely pike well before getting all the way back there. Since the battery of the Model S extends all the way to the front axle, there is a greater risk. All that said, there is still the risk of the object striking some critical component in the engine of an ICE which is typically in the front. And the strike could easily damage something like a fuel line which could possibly start a fire.
kzahel 13y ago
"With a track record of zero deaths or serious, permanent injuries since our vehicles went into production six years ago, there is no safer car on the road than a Tesla." I recall one Tesla caused death[1], and I'm sure there have been more. Not that I really think Tesla is any more dangerous than any other car in this regard though. [1] http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2014/02/07/tesla-driver-blames-fatal-crash-on-new-car-smell/ http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2014/02/07/tesla-driver-blames...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- damon_c 13y ago
  Just checking... did you read that article? It says the car's "new car smell" caused the driver to suddenly fall asleep and kill a cyclist. Not sure if the car was actually at fault there...
  - empoman 13y ago
    It actually says that the driver claimed that it was the reason. "He told officers that the car had a strong, new-car smell that prompted him to use a baking soda car freshener in it. Jain told authorities that the smell caused him to fall asleep and there were no mechanical problems with the car..." But you're probably correct that the car was not at fault, the driver was probably just grasping for straws.
- Gustomaximus 13y ago
  For those that don't follow the link, this death was a cyclist hit by a Tesla driver. Not a car occupant so I feel the claim is valid as someone hitting a cyclist is largely out of their control until/if they move to driverless models.
- DEinspanjer 13y ago
  It is a sad truth that there has been at least one traffic accident involving a Tesla Model S that caused two deaths, and I suspect probably several others. The obvious difference is that the deaths weren't people in the Tesla but rather the people in the other vehicles. The Model S is a frightening concept in a major collision. It has crumple zones and all those wonderful safety features like air bags and such that make it considerably safer on the inside, but on the outside, it is significantly heavier than many other cars on the road, it has a very low center of gravity and a very evenly distributed mass which means no matter what angle of impact, the other car is likely to end up a crumpled heap. :/ If you look at some of the photos on the forums or the web, you can't help but wince and hope that the people in the other car survived, let alone walked away.
Theodores 13y ago
People want to test this car to extremes, it is as if they are subjecting it it the coding equivalent of DDOS attack with some sql injection payload of a Stuxnet virus. Let's see what else the media find wrong with this car, e.g.: 'After flying into a cloud of paint and superglue the windscreen wipers failed to work resulting in a dangerous collision'. (As if that happens every day and as if any other car would do better.) If the naysayers keep up their petulant trolling then this car will be good for a road trip in Afghanistan some time soon.
symmetricsaurus 13y ago
"With a track record of zero deaths or serious, permanent injuries since our vehicles went into production six years ago, there is no safer car on the road than a Tesla." I don't doubt that the Tesla Model S is a very safe car as tests have shown. With that said, how many deaths and serious injuries would have been expected considering the same number of miles driven with normal cars? Are Teslas actually substantially safer than other cars or are there just few enough out there that no serious injuries have happened?
- unphasable 13y ago
  food for thought: http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rating-any-car-ever-tested http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-...
- veidr 13y ago
  Yes, they actually are in the 99th percentile of safety among all cars ever tested in the USA (per the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). So it's not just that most ppl 2 po'.
  - symmetricsaurus 13y ago
    What I actually want to know is if you had the same number of other average cars driving the same distance as the Teslas, how many people could you expect to be killed in these cars. Here is my crude estimation. If we consider that there are 3.2 * 10^-4 people killed in traffic per car per year[1] and that there are 20000 Tesla Model S on the road[2], then we get that there should have been about 6 deaths. Now most of the Teslas have not been on the road for a whole year probably so I'm not sure how valid this estimation is. This seems to be some indication that zero deaths is very low for this number of cars but to be sure I think one would need to make a more detailed estimate. Doing some statistical analysis would also be good. [1] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=traffic+deaths+per+car+in+the+us https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=traffic+deaths+per+car... [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S
kordless 13y ago
As soon as I have funds to do so, I'm buying a Tesla Model S. I'm amazed at the dedication to the process of building a superior product.
fidotron 13y ago
I'm guessing the actual titanium shield is relatively small, but either way I hope it's welded to the car well, as that stuff is valuable.
- colechristensen 13y ago
  Titanium is more expensive than it is valuable. Most of the high cost of titanium products comes from the relatively very expensive purification process and difficulty machining.
  - kristofferR 13y ago
    "is more expensive than it is valuable" does not makes sense, since the value of something is what people are willing to pay for it. If it is expensive then it has a high value.
    - mnw21cam 13y ago
      Not so. Expensive - how much it costs to make it. Valuable - how much someone else would pay for it. So, if I was to spent loads on parts to make a relatively useless widget that fills a particular niche in my daily life, it would be expensive, but I wouldn't view it as valuable. It's only as valuable as it is expensive if there are lots of people who want it, which is not the case for custom work.
      - njharman 13y ago
        To expand further with example; a titanium under plate may cost $2000 to install(amort design, testing, manufacturing, etc.). But unless you happen to own a Telsa with a missing under plate it's value is less than $100 as scrap recycling.
adamrneary 13y ago
Cause and effect: A statistically insignificant number of fires in Teslas caused a disproportionate amount of news coverage (there was much less news coverage about Tesla's best-ever safety rating). This perception needs to be overcome, even if it means informed consumers having to pay for titanium underneath otherwise safe cars. Tesla is doing their part, but it's a shame to see so many outside factors driving up the cost.
- cpwright 13y ago
  I worry about the effects of this overdoing it on the eventual Gen 3 vehicle. Clearly, at least in general a luxury vehicle that costs $70-100K is going to have more wizbang safety features than a $35K mid-range car. However, if Tesla is advocating this shielding to make electric batteries less likely to catch on fire, and then the Gen 3 skimps on electric-specific safety features they could definitely get PR flak for it. On the other hand, if they want to maintain this super-safe image, it is going to push the price up (and my guess the timeout out) for the more general appeal vehicle. I'm hoping that my current vehicle lasts just long enough (both in terms of mechanically, and my patience with it getting older) for Tesla to come out with something in my price range.
- twoodfin 13y ago
  (there was much less news coverage about Tesla's best-ever safety rating) Probably because NHTSA told them to cut it out.[1] [1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/23/5135258/nhtsa-tesla-star-safety-advertising-guidelines http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/23/5135258/nhtsa-tesla-star-...
001sky 13y ago
Kudos for an engineering led solution. I have no idea what "ballistics grade aluminum" is (since nobody uses ALU for ballistics armour##), but Ti has more inherent toughness# and seems a better fit as a skid-plate. # elongation and tensile strength. ## The ballistic standard for armour (RHA) is a 1/4 steel plate. Ballistic Alu is roughly 1/2 inch or double the thickness used here, in most applications.
- ghc 13y ago
  It's probably a reference to the increasingly common use of aluminum plate armor in military vehicles. Aluminum has some distinct weight advantages that make it ideal for light armor.
- Retric 13y ago
  Think tanks not people. Aluminum is far cheaper than what you would put in armor vests but still light and strong. Ceramics are arguably better overall, but combining the two is a net win. Anyway, ballistic grade aluminum actually does refer to something and is probably better for cars which don't have to deal with anti tank rounds. EX: http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html
  - 001sky 13y ago
    Yeah, I hear you but 1/4 inch is not bulletproof. Its like saying "ballistics grade sand". Which in sufficient thicknesses, is bulletproof =D. "MIL-DTL-46027 is supplied as a 5083-H131 product. Ballistic reports are supplied for thicknesses over 0.499" per specification. Our stock range is 0.250" thru 3". Typical stock size is 72" wide x 144" long." Similar qualification for MIL-DTL-46063 REV H OR LATEST http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html
    - 001sky 13y ago
      For more reference on mil-spec ballistic tests, see http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a481408.pdf http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a481408.pdf Section 4, figure 4 (p.7)
jusben1369 13y ago
"An ode to passive/aggressive and hyper defensive writing" Did this remind anyone else of when the smartest kid in the room was forced to apologize for something and you got the classic non apology apology? Keep building great cars Elon and changing the world. Understand that we understand that there will be (I almost said bumps in the road) and that no one expected you to be perfect in every way from the very beginning. Trust someone close to you to help write these things. "When you're doing something as new as we are with Tesla you're going to draw an outsized amount of scrutiny. Even though these fires were both in extreme circumstances, and that fires are sadly a regular occurrence for all vehicle makers, as a brand new concept it's not good enough for us to say 'We're as safe as any other comparable high end vehicle' We have to go a step further. And so today I'm announcing......" I mean I'm just throwing something together quickly but I'm trying to put some substance here vs sounding randomly snarky.
- veidr 13y ago
  But really, yours doesn't sound as good as his. His made me kinda want to buy a Tesla.
  - jusben1369 13y ago
    He is one heck of a car salesman.
- threeseed 13y ago
  Yes which is childish and pathetic. Car safety should never, ever be joked about. People's lives are at stake.
  - moron4hire 13y ago
    John Cleese doesn't agree: “Too many people confuse being serious with being solemn.” He expands: Now I suggest to you that a group of us could be sitting around after dinner, discussing matters that were extremely serious like the education of our chil- dren, or our marriages, or the meaning of life (and I’m not talking about the film), and we could be laughing, and that would not make what we were discuss- ing one bit less serious. Solemnity, on the other hand, I honestly don’t know what it’s for. I mean, what is the point of it? The two most beautiful memorial services that I’ve ever attended both had a lot of humor and it freed us all and made the ser- vices inspiring and cathartic. But solemnity, it serves pomposity and the self- important always know, at some level of their consciousness, that their egotism is going to be punctured by humor. That’s why they see it as a threat. and as an example: “Graham Chapman, co-author of the "Parrot Sketch", is no more. He has ceased to be. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. He's kicked the bucket, hopped the twig, bit the dust, snuffed it, breathed his last, and gone to meet the great Head of Light Entertainment in the sky. And I guess that we're all thinking how sad it is that a man of such talent, of such capability for kindness, of such unusual intelligence, should now so suddenly be spirited away at the age of only forty-eight, before he'd achieved many of the things of which he was capable, and before he'd had enough fun. Well, I feel that I should say: non- sense. Good riddance to him, the freeloading bastard, I hope he fries. And the reason I feel I should say this is he would never forgive me if I didn't, if I threw away this glorious opportunity to shock you all on his behalf. Any- thing for him but mindless good taste. (He paused, then claimed that Chapman had whispered in his ear while he was writing the speech): All right, Cleese. You say you're very proud of being the very first person ever to say 'shit' on British television. If this service is really for me, just for starters, I want you to become the first person ever at a British memorial service to say 'fuck'.”
chromaton 13y ago
The post doesn't mention the titanium alloy or thickness of the shield, both of which make a significant difference. Pure titanium (Grade 2) isn't especially strong compared to aluminum or steel, but it is less expensive. Heat treated 6Al-4V alloy, AKA Grade 5 on the other hand, is the stuff used in military aircraft and the like.
jlebrech 13y ago
sounds more like a tank
JohnBooty 13y ago
In a sense, Teslas are the least safe cars on the road, because I'd kill every single one of you in order to own one.
- johnward 13y ago
  I would really love to drive a Model S. I'm not sure if all of the Californians on HN realize how special CA is for seeing awesome cars. I saw cars that I never thought I would see in person (in my lifetime) when I was in CA. Not only that but you would see them a handful at a time. I know of 4-5 Model S' in the Pittsburgh area but rarely see exotics.
  - DEinspanjer 13y ago
    Check out the teslamotorsclub.com forums, become part of the community, make some friends, crash^H^H^H^H^H drop in on one of their outings or get-togethers. While it isn't every single owner, a surprising number of them are very happy to give detailed tours of their cars and even test drives. In that aspect, it is a very very different population from other luxury or high-performance vehicle owners.
  - steveklabnik 13y ago
    Pittsburgh has more interesting cars than I'd expected: I've seen an orange lambo or two, and an Enzo... Not to mention all the cool stuff that comes out during the Vintage Grand Prix.
    - johnward 13y ago
      Hey Steve, not sure if you remember me from Vivisimo/PGH.RB but nice to see you drop here. I have yet to see an Enzo, I actually can't remember the last Ferrari I saw in the area. There is a GTR parked in front of the building every now and then and that is exciting in PA. In CA that's just an every day sight.
      - steveklabnik 13y ago
squigs25 13y ago
It's really difficult to emphasize how excessive this is. As a mechanical engineer, I knew just by reading the title that this is really excessive, because the titanium alloy used is definitely a marketing stunt. Titanium has unbelievable tensile strength for its weight, but there's no good reason to make an "underbody shield" out of titanium except for publicity. It would make way more sense to use steel (and maybe you could make a case for something ultra light weight, like carbon fiber, but probably not).
- blisterpeanuts 13y ago
  But titanium is less dense than steel, hence preferred when weight is important. For an electric car, weight is paramount, I would think.
  - squigs25 13y ago
    Actually, nope! While it requires more initial force, that extra energy due to added mass is stored in kinetic energy, and contrary to popular belief, it does not affect efficiency. There was actually a myth busters episode about this. Electric cars would store this added energy in their regenerative breaking, so it shouldn't affect energy consumption. Also, the added weight of steel over titanium would be negligible, maybe 100 lbs tops.
    - DEinspanjer 13y ago
      I didn't see the Myth Busters episode, but isn't there still a loss due to the inherent inefficiency of the motor and regen breaking?
    - blisterpeanuts 13y ago
      I would think that 100 extra pounds, coupled with the inherent energy loss from inefficiency, would be a significant factor in the car's range. That's 75% of one extra passenger. This site (http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/ http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/) lets you plot a course for several EV models and set up some parameters such as weight. Adding a passenger to a Tesla knocks 9 Km off the range, according to them.
eumenides1 13y ago
Dear Internet, please make a tumblr of Tesla car gifs running over things. Thanks!
arikrak 13y ago
Nice move on their part. I think while the Tesla may be less fire-prone than other cars, Musk exaggerates it: "The odds of fire in a Model S, at roughly 1 in 8,000 vehicles, are five times lower than those of an average gasoline car..." What matters is the miles driven by cars, not the number of cars on the roads. It seems likely that other cars are driven longer distances, and Tesla cars are probably used by many owners as a second car.
- blisterpeanuts 13y ago
  Exaggeration, perhaps, but the majority of collisions occur on local roads rather than on highways, and as you say, the Tesla is more likely to be used locally than on long highway trips, hence more exposed to drunks running stop signs and so forth.
  - SeanLuke 13y ago
    None of which has anything to do with vehicle fires, which is the topic at hand.
    - blisterpeanuts 13y ago
      Vehicle fires are a potential result of collisions, no? They don't just occur spontaneously.
      - SeanLuke 13y ago
        Sure they do. Vehicle fires occur spontaneously, due to sabotage (the most common reason), due to various acts of god, due to road debris, and due to collisions. Anyway, two of the three Tesla fires were on freeways, not local roads. The third was under somewhat mysterious circumstances (Mexico).
- pja 13y ago
  What matters is making the appropriate comparison. Which in this case would be with a population of high-end gasoline driven cars of equivalent age. The population of extant cars contains vehicles that are decades old. It's ought to be unsurprising that they have a higher rate of vehicle fires than the Teslas do. How to the Teslas compare with (say) BMW 5-series cars less than three years old?
olssy 13y ago
Did anyone else notice a screw coming detached from the titanium underbody shield after the impact of the three ball tow hitch, you can also see the shield bend on the impact of the concrete block and the hole where the screw was. It would be kind of ironic if this actually made the car less safe.
- Varcht 13y ago
  As posted elsewhere it is a plastic snap fastener. Likely a secondary attachment for fit and vibration. No way is it structural or it's absence compromise the structural integrity. Do you honestly think they might have overlooked it if it was critical?
- thescrewdriver 13y ago
  If my car went over a concrete block with nothing more than a dent in the underside I'd be very happy.
- jccooper 13y ago
  Plastic rivet, used to hold other plastic pieces to the underside of the car. Probably in this case it's holding on a plastic splash/aero shield, which is what bent. No big deal. Damn things fall off all the time. Go look under yours, I bet you're missing a few. And you haven't crushed any alternators in the process. I was actually pretty disappointed to see that--because I hate those things. I guess it was too much to believe that Tesla wouldn't have any of those damned plastic clips. I guess once I get my (rather unlikely) Model S I'll still have a reason to go to AutoZone.
rikf 13y ago
The biggest take away from that article for me is that they are offering the fix for free to current owners. How many other car companies would do that? Unless they where required to by law which is clearly not the case here.
pistle 13y ago
Elon is revealing too much hubris in his messaging. You can treat people around you like that, but lining up too many people against you is foolish. His intent is to PR+burnish the added safety feature. Instead of selling it as an objective demonstration of the leadership tact that Tesla takes in ensuring driver security, he gets passive-aggressive. Instead of laying out a tremendous history of safety as a foundation for a vision of the future of driving, he lords it as an accomplished achievement... which means the first time someone gets stuck inside the car and is burned alive, all these statements will bite him in the ass. It doesn't matter if that happened 100 times in gas cars the same year. Those manufacturers weren't overselling it. In aggressively projecting strength, it expresses weakness.
- _zen 13y ago
  So the first death Tesla ever had will nullify their safety record? Ok. All the first death will do is have media go nuts, then Musk will make another blog post calling them idiots for making a big deal of 1 death in the history of Tesla, compared to the thousands of every other car manufacturer.
- andrewtbham 13y ago
  tesla is weak. they are a huge underdog against the other car companies. they are david versus goliath. they are being cocky. that's what the small dog does :-) there is a risk of a bad accident that could be bad pr. that risk exists with or without the arrogance. elon musk has a high tolerance for calculated risk. that's why he's a billionaire and you and i are 2nd guessing him on hacker news.
  - larrys 13y ago
    "elon musk has a high tolerance for calculated risk" And perhaps he will be the survivor that is referred to when stories about survivorship bias are passed around. Or maybe he will crash and burn with that calculated risk. "that's why he's a billionaire and you and i are 2nd guessing him on hacker news." There are billionaires (or close to it) on hacker news btw. Of course if one of those "billionaires" went out and said something like that that wouldn't go over to well would it? Would you like a commenter on HN to say something like "well that's why you are driving a used Yugo and I am driving a brand new Lamborghini that I paid cash for?" as justification for why they know something or are somehow better than you are?
nathanvanfleet 13y ago
"In short, if you ever run over a human head the car is designed to complete decimate it and break it into several pieces." Wow that's harsh.
srg0 13y ago
Assuming the underbody plate is only 2mm thick, the Model S is suddenly accelerating 5% slower. To put it otherwise, every acceleration now takes at least 4% more energy (> 0.01 kWh for an acceleration from from 0 to 65 mph). Sounds great for city driving.
- deletes 13y ago
  Can we see your calculation and reasoning or did you make the numbers up?
  - srg0 13y ago
    Footprint is 2×5 m. Sheet volume is 2×5×0.002 = 0.02 m³. Titanium density is 4507 kg/m³. That gives 90 kg. Without the aluminium deflector. Normal Tesla Model S curb weight is 2108 kg according to Wikipedia. Extra 90 kg is 4.2% mass increase => 4.2% more kinetic energy at the same speed => more energy consumption to accelerate. It also means, that the same force applied to the heavier Model S will accelerate it slower (a = F/m).
    - deletes 13y ago
      I appreciate the response. I'm still skeptical about the actual energy usage. If the % more kinetic energy applies equally to battery energy usage.
bsdetector 13y ago
Curious that it doesn't mention battery swaps. Since this is a PR piece I'm assuming from lack of mention that you can no longer swap batteries after having the extra battery shield added. Battery swap was always a gimmick -- you had to return to the same swap station later to get your same battery back or pay a huge fee. Come on. It looks like they decided fires are worse PR than this gimmick is good PR.
- pistle 13y ago
  Stop. You're harshing my myopautopia with all your fact checking. Please reaquire a position within the jerculus circulus.
pc86 13y ago
> we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds Let's just think about how awesome that is for a moment.
- marcamillion 13y ago
  I was just about to write this....it's like Gran Turismo in real life! This is one of those moments when we need to just stop, take a breath, and realize how truly epic and breakthrough this is. Especially as someone that lives in a developing country...where the vast majority of the cars on the road are at least 10-years old....this is just mind-blowingly-awesome!
harichinnan 13y ago
I just had a thought that Elon Musk owning both Tesla and SpaceX, the next logical step would be an electric powered airplane or a chopper. It could be an airplane/chopper that would glide down to safety in case of a mechanical failure, or crash land on rough terrain without fear of catching fire. That would disrupt aviation industry like never before.
- Already__Taken 13y ago
  Musk has spoken about electric aircraft. It's inevitable and just a question of batteries.
andrewtbham 13y ago
The risk of fire from collision was significantly higher that from conventional ICE. The figures Elon used included fires from electrical and mechanical failures, and even arson. Raising the car mitigated the risks in the short term. This is a long term solution. Kudos. Here is full statistical analysis of why it was a real problem. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24190-Discussion-of-statistical-analysis-of-vehicle-fires-as-it-relates-to-Model-S?p=503252&viewfull=1#post503252 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24190-Discussi...
notastartup 13y ago
Elon Musk is the heartthrob of our generation, producing electric cars, space rockets, wish I was as successful.
malandrew 13y ago
"However, to improve things further, we provided an over- the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody impact." How can a software update impact ground clearance at highway speeds? Is this some special capability of the suspension in a Tesla or are more cars capable of this type of adjustment?
- msandford 13y ago
  The ground clearance is controlled in software. I'm not sure if it's pneumatic or something else, but it's definitely under the control of some computer system somewhere in the car.
pocketstar 13y ago
On the website: "Welcome! We noticed that you are in Canada . Would you like to view the Canadian version of the site? Visit the Canadian Site" as a small unobtrusive banner along the bottom of the screen that disappears if I continue to scroll through the article. This is the BEST implementation of this geothing I have ever seen. Especially compared to Newegg's massive grey screen banner that asks me every fucking time and never remembers my answer.
mkhalil 13y ago
Tesla will need to continue to fight this PR with the truth and improvements like this; for the big 3, the oil companies, and dealership organizations will continue to try to put them down. They need us to help spread the truth, as much as we need significant improvements in the automotive/transportation industry.
sgy 13y ago
There's another side for the story.. Car Dealers Could be “Napsterized” http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2014/03/24/tesla-raises-fears-that-car-dealers-could-be-napsterized/ http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2014/03/24/tesla-raises-fears-that-...
leccine 13y ago
Long live Tesla and Elon Musk! People like him are the hope of humanity that we actually going forward (rather slowly but hey)...
deleted 13y ago
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rkalla 13y ago
This is what you get when a company/group/effort/community is lead by a "benevolent dictator" - someone with an absolutely pure vision of what they want their output to look like and the autonomy and strength to make it so no matter what. I love this... I actually love that it probably pissed off Musk to no end the amount of attention the fires got and out of spite he went totally over the top and added ballistic plating to the bottom of the car as a super-constructive "fuck you" to everyone that bitched about it. I am picturing this same thing happening at Chrysler or GM and I think 9 out of 10 CEOs would just let the whole non-issue blow over and go back to business - and the 1 CEO that would try and push for a ridiculous over-engineering solution like this would probably get shot down by the board. That's why I like this, it's going way above and beyond because he can and because he believes in the vision he is selling so firmly that there is no wiggle room: "My cars are the best and goddamnit, I'm going to make them the best." <standard disclaimers about personal viewpoints and preferences> Just want to focus on the pursuit of perfection that I find so energizing - to put another way, if you had someone this passionate running each of the major airlines, I wonder what air travel would be like instead of the race-to-the-bottom experience it is now.
- aunty_helen 13y ago
  It will be interesting to see how this approach changes when the money is a bit tighter ie the model c. You can't just go and add titanium reinforcing to a 30k$ car whenever something bad happens. I think something to moderate Musk's thin skin wouldn't be a bad thing but I certainly agree that the absolute power to do what ever he wants coupled to his technical depth has and will continue to see him changing the transport industry.
  - sukuriant 13y ago
    It won't be as low to the ground most likely, so that won't be as much of a problem is my guess. If you've seen a Tesla, they're very low to the ground
- the_rightwayz 13y ago
  This is a great fix - they will blow apart the competition, fire past the doubters, burn the naysayers and smoke the market!
curiousDog 13y ago
An OTA update to increase the ground clearance at highway speeds. Wow. Just wow. I for one welcome the future and please give this man all the money he wants.
trhway 13y ago
until somebody drives Model S in Iraq and hits IED ...
hyp0 13y ago
love Musk's posts, esp "peace of mind", free retrofit, and that amazing crash that was walked away from. but although there's "ballistic" grade alumimium, titanium that's usually found in "military" applications, and the steel "spear" braced in asphalt test, will it survive assault rifle fire? or anti-tank weapons? how about a tactical nuclear strike? i mean, is it really safe?
- lispylol 13y ago
  Yeah I can already see the headlines. > "Model S catches fire due to direct impact from nuclear missile". Media goes apeshit and Musk responds by equipping Model S with anti-missile defense system.
po 13y ago
However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody impact. This is the most crazy thing about the press release and I feel like it went largely unnoticed. Not that it is a bad thing at all but it really illustrates that we're totally living in a different world than what I grew up with. Cars are now largely defined by software.
trekky1700 13y ago
"However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody impact." That is just so cool.
tschlossmacher 13y ago
You know what I love about Tesla? They continue to innovate and create change in the auto industry, most of all as a company they are powered by transparency. Similar to other luxury auto companies they facilitate innovation. While luxury car companies strive to create beautiful, seamless and future-forward vehicles at a high cost, they can afford (similar to startups) to bring in new ideas to not only rule out competition but give them a market advantage. For example - recently McLaren came up with a way to introduce sound waves, instead of windshield wipers, wipers are a pain! (Not to say that the device generating the waves wouldn't be) Can you imagine toyota, chrysler, or ford doing something of the sort? Of Course not - it takes probably 20 hours for them to build one of theirs, where it might take Rolls Royce 6-7 months. However there are different profit margins and reputable name sake. I like to think Elon has engineered his company nicely in between :), he surely got pissed off by the media and had fun adding that ballistic plate to the bottom
vive 13y ago
Definitely the amount of effort Tesla is devoting to ensure the safety of passengers is highly appreciated. I was awaiting for their Cars to be launched in my country. Definitely I would buy one :) Keep rocking Tesla!

631 points by austenallred 13y ago

"This happened after the vehicle impacted a roundabout at 110 mph" My pity meter regarding the resulting vehicle fire doesn't seem to be moving.

pistle 13y ago
Let me send you an over the air update to your geek control unit. You're supposed to be cackling with joy along with Elon.

userbinator 13y ago

Very, very good idea. Personally I think the ground clearance is still a bit on the low side. It looks like it lost a bolt or something in the first impact image... oops.

timdorr 13y ago
Lost bolt versus a lost $40k battery pack? I'll take the bolt option, please :)
smoyer 13y ago
I noticed that too but can't tell whether it's a plastic "rivet". If you look at the plastic fairings on your car, you'll see that many are held to the body with a snap-fit plastic connector. These are also used as blind fittings on many interior panels (such as door panels). They break and detach often enough that my local hardware store carries the more common ones.
- a1k0n 13y ago
  Definitely a plastic rivet. It's too pointy to be a bolt, and you can see the thin 'head' separated from the flange which releases it.
  - DEinspanjer 13y ago
    Yep, I can confirm, there are hundreds of those throughout the car to connect pieces that are either cosmetic or not tied to the safety or performance of the car. For instance, the plastic shell inside the frunk is connected to the car with them.
- kordless 13y ago
  It's probably a plastic rivet holding the plastic aeroshield Elon mentions as the first line of impact absorption.
jplur 13y ago
I assumed that was part of the trailer hitch that was being run over.
Varcht 13y ago
You can never be too low! #flush
twic 13y ago
He's making cars which are implausibly high-tech, ridiculously well armoured, have inexplicably low ground clearance, and look rad. Elon Musk is Batman, and i claim my five pounds.

sz4kerto 13y ago

"However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds" I know this is not specific to Tesla, but it's still really cool. :)

crusso 13y ago
I realize that the suspension isn't unique to Tesla, but over-the-air software updates seem to be. It irks me to no end that I'm told that my Infiniti can't be updated to even work properly with my iPhone, much less the fact that they want to charge for gps map updates that are essentially free from Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.
- iancarroll 13y ago
  I'm pretty sure map data is expensive and those companies license it.
  - crusso 13y ago
    I realize that they license it. I dispute that it's anything but a cash cow for those companies that charge $100-$300 for map updates that many other companies make available for free. I've purchased licenses for multiple software packages and at the scales that these car distributors work at, it's ridiculous to think that their actual gps data costs aren't nominal (ie, pennies) per vehicle.
  - maguay 13y ago
    They license it and give it away with several hundred dollar gadgets. Seems surprising that an auto manufacturer wouldn't do the same with their tens-or-hundreds-of-thousand dollars products.
  - twistedpair 13y ago
    The long term contracts with M2M interfaces for OTA updates are generally low bandwidth. Carriers are willing to sell these long term contracts because it consumes very little of their network capacity. If you started pushing out constant multi-gig map updates across them, then the price to operate their OTA infrastructure (their vendor) would massively increase. That's the point we're they'd probably have you download the update online and usb stick it to your car, assuming they were willing to eat the cost of new maps licenses.

utefan001 13y ago

Almost got the wording perfect! (under shield vs underbody shield) 1 point by utefan001 175 days ago | link I am sure it is easier said than done, but it seems like the batteries simply need to be better protected. Something like a carbon fiber or titanium under shield.

freehunter 13y ago
Wouldn't carbon fiber shatter in an impact though? It's light, but it doesn't seem like a good material for a skid plate.

zacharycohn 13y ago

"We believe these changes will also help prevent a fire resulting from an extremely high speed impact that tears the wheels off the car, like the other Model S impact fire, which occurred last year in Mexico. This happened after the vehicle impacted a roundabout at 110 mph, shearing off 15 feet of concrete curbwall and tearing off the left front wheel, then smashing through an eight foot tall buttressed concrete wall on the other side of the road and tearing off the right front wheel, before crashing into a tree. The driver stepped out and walked away with no permanent injuries and a fire, again limited to the front section of the vehicle, started several minutes later. The underbody shields will help prevent a fire even in such a scenario." This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

unphasable 13y ago
This is written in a semi-sarcastic/ passive aggressive tone to get across the point of how safe their vehicles already are. Very cheeky of Elon and his team.
- lkmz 13y ago
  Let's not forget that Tesla recently issued a recall for 29,000 charging adapters because they would overheat and catch on fire. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/automobiles/citing-charging-concerns-tesla-issues-a-recall.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/automobiles/citing-chargin...
  - cykod 13y ago
    Come on dude, you make it sound like these things we're catching on fire all over the place - "... the number of incidents remains small, and Tesla’s review to date points to the building receptacle or wiring as the primary cause of failed NEMA 14-50 adapters, the company has determined that a voluntary recall is appropriate as a precautionary measure.”
  - MPetitt 13y ago
    And lets not forget how astonishing that is in light of what many other car manufacturers[0] do when they find issues that effect millions of their cars in a much more dangerous way. The fact that even with that issue, their safety numbers are through the roof and their number of incidents are way under the national average, and they still willingly and transparently issues a recall, I count that as nothing but a plus for Tesla. [0]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324669104578203440990704994 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142412788732466910...

martin_bech 13y ago

Always impressed in the companys ability to push things further. They will do to some of the current manufactures what Apple did to Blackberry and Nokia.

Gustomaximus 13y ago
I kinda feel Nokia self destructed more than it was destroyed by Apple. It was a sad journey to watch right up the the sale. But reminds me I should see what's the latest with Sailfish and Ubuntu Touch.

doe88 13y ago

Why would Elon choose to post on Medium and not on the blog of Tesla? It would definitively bring more credence to post it on their official website. Until reading near the end I wasn't sure it was a Tesla employee/official or a third party story (and I use the term story here and not article on purpose because usually on Medium it is more stories than facts).

basicallydan 13y ago
I was wondering the same thing, perhaps they're just giving it a go to see if it's a better platform for getting people to read their blog?
corresation 13y ago
Add that to Julie Zhuo (Designer @ Facebook) doing the same thing just a few hours ago and it makes for a very curious confluence, in both cases diminishing the immediate credibility of the articles.
- steve_benjamins 13y ago
  Julie has been posting on Medium for a while though- this is I believe Elons first post on Medium.
001sky 13y ago
Maybe Medium's new business plan is to compete with PR Newswire. Seriously. Its a nice little niche.
whizzkid 13y ago
Kimbal Musk is CEO of Medium and his brother. I guess that is enough to explain why :)
- nbouscal 13y ago
  You're thinking of Me.dium, which turned into OneRiot and was then acquired by WalmartLabs. No relationship with Ev Williams's Medium. Also, Kimbal is on Tesla's board, so it's not just a family relationship.

eiji 13y ago

I'm sorry but my first reaction is "What a waste". Titanium is ridiculously expensive for various reasons. The best these engineers could come up with is to put a sheet of metal under the car? You got to be kidding me. I see why they have to use Titanium for it, anything else doesn't work, but it shows how far away this car is from reality and from true mass production.

Varcht 13y ago
Titanium alloy sheets are not that expensive. Something like what is shown in the video is probably less than $500. Seems like a pretty good value if it protects the batteries from damage on a $60,000 car.
- Varcht 13y ago
  Also metal under shields are quite common as vehicle upgrades and not as novel as you might think.
kordless 13y ago
Your statements are in conflict with each other and are glued together with an ad hominem argument. You should focus on why you think increasing safety of a car beyond anything we've known thus far is a 'waste' instead of trying to use a simple bias to devalue the work they've put into it.
Theodores 13y ago
My feelings too. However, as much as I like steel, I find it incredible that most cars use very heavy materials, e.g. steel, instead of aluminium, plastic, carbon fibre and titanium. Such materials are common on bicycles and planes. Moving a tonne or two of steel around is a real waste, particularly when it rusts. At least with this wondercar the bottom is flat and aerodynamically sound, unlike all of those legacy vehicles out there.
- johnward 13y ago
  Well, it's not like they can just redesign the entire platform at this point. Slapping some titanium on is probably the best move they can make right now. It should satisfy any government and customer concerns for a problem that was pretty rare to begin with. As for the other materials we've been using them sparingly in vehicles. The new Ford F150 is using much more aluminum, enough to bring the weight down by about 900 pounds. Yet people are still criticizing aluminum as a material choice. It's not hard to see that aluminum, carbon fiber and other light weight materials are the future of vehicles. Yet some people are still afraid because they associate heavy steal with strength. That aluminum hood is the only part on my old truck that is not rusting through. Lighters, stronger, no rust. Where is the negative?

ghshephard 13y ago

Are there any other car manufacturers that have similar levels of clearance? I'd be intrigued to see how they perform in the same test scenarios that the Teslas were run against.

vermontdevil 13y ago
The problem is the expectations for other car manufacturers are much lower in terms of safety. So these companies do not try to push the safety envelope any higher. The exception would be Volvo.
- johnward 13y ago
  Yep. Imagine there are plenty of gasoline cars that have the potential for the gas tank to be punctured, and well that seems like it could turn out much worse. The problem is that electric vehicles are scrutinized to the point that Tesla actually has to defend the one of chance that something punctures the battery pack. A lot of gas tanks are visible under a car with a thin layer of steel protecting them. The straps holding the tank in my Ford truck rusted through. I had the optional off road package that includes a skid plat for the gas tank. Without that plate it certainly would have dropped and I can only guess what might happen. However, that recall got nowhere near the media coverage Tesla gets for anything. GM left bad ignition switches in the cobalt for something like 8 years. People died when the switched locked up.
  - DEinspanjer 13y ago
    Actually, in the particular case of an object such as the trailer hitch that can easily pike into the body of the car when struck, it is less likely that it would damage the fuel tank of an ICE than the battery compartment of the Model S because the gas tank on an ICE is at the rear, and the object would likely pike well before getting all the way back there. Since the battery of the Model S extends all the way to the front axle, there is a greater risk. All that said, there is still the risk of the object striking some critical component in the engine of an ICE which is typically in the front. And the strike could easily damage something like a fuel line which could possibly start a fire.

kzahel 13y ago

"With a track record of zero deaths or serious, permanent injuries since our vehicles went into production six years ago, there is no safer car on the road than a Tesla." I recall one Tesla caused death[1], and I'm sure there have been more. Not that I really think Tesla is any more dangerous than any other car in this regard though. [1] http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2014/02/07/tesla-driver-blames-fatal-crash-on-new-car-smell/ http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2014/02/07/tesla-driver-blames...

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
damon_c 13y ago
Just checking... did you read that article? It says the car's "new car smell" caused the driver to suddenly fall asleep and kill a cyclist. Not sure if the car was actually at fault there...
- empoman 13y ago
  It actually says that the driver claimed that it was the reason. "He told officers that the car had a strong, new-car smell that prompted him to use a baking soda car freshener in it. Jain told authorities that the smell caused him to fall asleep and there were no mechanical problems with the car..." But you're probably correct that the car was not at fault, the driver was probably just grasping for straws.
Gustomaximus 13y ago
For those that don't follow the link, this death was a cyclist hit by a Tesla driver. Not a car occupant so I feel the claim is valid as someone hitting a cyclist is largely out of their control until/if they move to driverless models.
DEinspanjer 13y ago
It is a sad truth that there has been at least one traffic accident involving a Tesla Model S that caused two deaths, and I suspect probably several others. The obvious difference is that the deaths weren't people in the Tesla but rather the people in the other vehicles. The Model S is a frightening concept in a major collision. It has crumple zones and all those wonderful safety features like air bags and such that make it considerably safer on the inside, but on the outside, it is significantly heavier than many other cars on the road, it has a very low center of gravity and a very evenly distributed mass which means no matter what angle of impact, the other car is likely to end up a crumpled heap. :/ If you look at some of the photos on the forums or the web, you can't help but wince and hope that the people in the other car survived, let alone walked away.

Theodores 13y ago

People want to test this car to extremes, it is as if they are subjecting it it the coding equivalent of DDOS attack with some sql injection payload of a Stuxnet virus. Let's see what else the media find wrong with this car, e.g.: 'After flying into a cloud of paint and superglue the windscreen wipers failed to work resulting in a dangerous collision'. (As if that happens every day and as if any other car would do better.) If the naysayers keep up their petulant trolling then this car will be good for a road trip in Afghanistan some time soon.

symmetricsaurus 13y ago

"With a track record of zero deaths or serious, permanent injuries since our vehicles went into production six years ago, there is no safer car on the road than a Tesla." I don't doubt that the Tesla Model S is a very safe car as tests have shown. With that said, how many deaths and serious injuries would have been expected considering the same number of miles driven with normal cars? Are Teslas actually substantially safer than other cars or are there just few enough out there that no serious injuries have happened?

unphasable 13y ago
food for thought: http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rating-any-car-ever-tested http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-...
veidr 13y ago
Yes, they actually are in the 99th percentile of safety among all cars ever tested in the USA (per the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). So it's not just that most ppl 2 po'.
- symmetricsaurus 13y ago
  What I actually want to know is if you had the same number of other average cars driving the same distance as the Teslas, how many people could you expect to be killed in these cars. Here is my crude estimation. If we consider that there are 3.2 * 10^-4 people killed in traffic per car per year[1] and that there are 20000 Tesla Model S on the road[2], then we get that there should have been about 6 deaths. Now most of the Teslas have not been on the road for a whole year probably so I'm not sure how valid this estimation is. This seems to be some indication that zero deaths is very low for this number of cars but to be sure I think one would need to make a more detailed estimate. Doing some statistical analysis would also be good. [1] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=traffic+deaths+per+car+in+the+us https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=traffic+deaths+per+car... [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

kordless 13y ago

As soon as I have funds to do so, I'm buying a Tesla Model S. I'm amazed at the dedication to the process of building a superior product.

fidotron 13y ago

I'm guessing the actual titanium shield is relatively small, but either way I hope it's welded to the car well, as that stuff is valuable.

colechristensen 13y ago
Titanium is more expensive than it is valuable. Most of the high cost of titanium products comes from the relatively very expensive purification process and difficulty machining.
- kristofferR 13y ago
  "is more expensive than it is valuable" does not makes sense, since the value of something is what people are willing to pay for it. If it is expensive then it has a high value.
  - mnw21cam 13y ago
    Not so. Expensive - how much it costs to make it. Valuable - how much someone else would pay for it. So, if I was to spent loads on parts to make a relatively useless widget that fills a particular niche in my daily life, it would be expensive, but I wouldn't view it as valuable. It's only as valuable as it is expensive if there are lots of people who want it, which is not the case for custom work.
    - njharman 13y ago
      To expand further with example; a titanium under plate may cost $2000 to install(amort design, testing, manufacturing, etc.). But unless you happen to own a Telsa with a missing under plate it's value is less than $100 as scrap recycling.

adamrneary 13y ago

Cause and effect: A statistically insignificant number of fires in Teslas caused a disproportionate amount of news coverage (there was much less news coverage about Tesla's best-ever safety rating). This perception needs to be overcome, even if it means informed consumers having to pay for titanium underneath otherwise safe cars. Tesla is doing their part, but it's a shame to see so many outside factors driving up the cost.

cpwright 13y ago
I worry about the effects of this overdoing it on the eventual Gen 3 vehicle. Clearly, at least in general a luxury vehicle that costs $70-100K is going to have more wizbang safety features than a $35K mid-range car. However, if Tesla is advocating this shielding to make electric batteries less likely to catch on fire, and then the Gen 3 skimps on electric-specific safety features they could definitely get PR flak for it. On the other hand, if they want to maintain this super-safe image, it is going to push the price up (and my guess the timeout out) for the more general appeal vehicle. I'm hoping that my current vehicle lasts just long enough (both in terms of mechanically, and my patience with it getting older) for Tesla to come out with something in my price range.
twoodfin 13y ago
(there was much less news coverage about Tesla's best-ever safety rating) Probably because NHTSA told them to cut it out.[1] [1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/23/5135258/nhtsa-tesla-star-safety-advertising-guidelines http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/23/5135258/nhtsa-tesla-star-...

001sky 13y ago

Kudos for an engineering led solution. I have no idea what "ballistics grade aluminum" is (since nobody uses ALU for ballistics armour##), but Ti has more inherent toughness# and seems a better fit as a skid-plate. # elongation and tensile strength. ## The ballistic standard for armour (RHA) is a 1/4 steel plate. Ballistic Alu is roughly 1/2 inch or double the thickness used here, in most applications.

ghc 13y ago
It's probably a reference to the increasingly common use of aluminum plate armor in military vehicles. Aluminum has some distinct weight advantages that make it ideal for light armor.
Retric 13y ago
Think tanks not people. Aluminum is far cheaper than what you would put in armor vests but still light and strong. Ceramics are arguably better overall, but combining the two is a net win. Anyway, ballistic grade aluminum actually does refer to something and is probably better for cars which don't have to deal with anti tank rounds. EX: http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html
- 001sky 13y ago
  Yeah, I hear you but 1/4 inch is not bulletproof. Its like saying "ballistics grade sand". Which in sufficient thicknesses, is bulletproof =D. "MIL-DTL-46027 is supplied as a 5083-H131 product. Ballistic reports are supplied for thicknesses over 0.499" per specification. Our stock range is 0.250" thru 3". Typical stock size is 72" wide x 144" long." Similar qualification for MIL-DTL-46063 REV H OR LATEST http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html http://www.cliftonsteel.com/aluminum-armor-plate.html
  - 001sky 13y ago
    For more reference on mil-spec ballistic tests, see http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a481408.pdf http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a481408.pdf Section 4, figure 4 (p.7)

jusben1369 13y ago

"An ode to passive/aggressive and hyper defensive writing" Did this remind anyone else of when the smartest kid in the room was forced to apologize for something and you got the classic non apology apology? Keep building great cars Elon and changing the world. Understand that we understand that there will be (I almost said bumps in the road) and that no one expected you to be perfect in every way from the very beginning. Trust someone close to you to help write these things. "When you're doing something as new as we are with Tesla you're going to draw an outsized amount of scrutiny. Even though these fires were both in extreme circumstances, and that fires are sadly a regular occurrence for all vehicle makers, as a brand new concept it's not good enough for us to say 'We're as safe as any other comparable high end vehicle' We have to go a step further. And so today I'm announcing......" I mean I'm just throwing something together quickly but I'm trying to put some substance here vs sounding randomly snarky.

veidr 13y ago
But really, yours doesn't sound as good as his. His made me kinda want to buy a Tesla.
- jusben1369 13y ago
  He is one heck of a car salesman.
threeseed 13y ago
Yes which is childish and pathetic. Car safety should never, ever be joked about. People's lives are at stake.
- moron4hire 13y ago
  John Cleese doesn't agree: “Too many people confuse being serious with being solemn.” He expands: Now I suggest to you that a group of us could be sitting around after dinner, discussing matters that were extremely serious like the education of our chil- dren, or our marriages, or the meaning of life (and I’m not talking about the film), and we could be laughing, and that would not make what we were discuss- ing one bit less serious. Solemnity, on the other hand, I honestly don’t know what it’s for. I mean, what is the point of it? The two most beautiful memorial services that I’ve ever attended both had a lot of humor and it freed us all and made the ser- vices inspiring and cathartic. But solemnity, it serves pomposity and the self- important always know, at some level of their consciousness, that their egotism is going to be punctured by humor. That’s why they see it as a threat. and as an example: “Graham Chapman, co-author of the "Parrot Sketch", is no more. He has ceased to be. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. He's kicked the bucket, hopped the twig, bit the dust, snuffed it, breathed his last, and gone to meet the great Head of Light Entertainment in the sky. And I guess that we're all thinking how sad it is that a man of such talent, of such capability for kindness, of such unusual intelligence, should now so suddenly be spirited away at the age of only forty-eight, before he'd achieved many of the things of which he was capable, and before he'd had enough fun. Well, I feel that I should say: non- sense. Good riddance to him, the freeloading bastard, I hope he fries. And the reason I feel I should say this is he would never forgive me if I didn't, if I threw away this glorious opportunity to shock you all on his behalf. Any- thing for him but mindless good taste. (He paused, then claimed that Chapman had whispered in his ear while he was writing the speech): All right, Cleese. You say you're very proud of being the very first person ever to say 'shit' on British television. If this service is really for me, just for starters, I want you to become the first person ever at a British memorial service to say 'fuck'.”

chromaton 13y ago

The post doesn't mention the titanium alloy or thickness of the shield, both of which make a significant difference. Pure titanium (Grade 2) isn't especially strong compared to aluminum or steel, but it is less expensive. Heat treated 6Al-4V alloy, AKA Grade 5 on the other hand, is the stuff used in military aircraft and the like.

jlebrech 13y ago

sounds more like a tank

JohnBooty 13y ago

In a sense, Teslas are the least safe cars on the road, because I'd kill every single one of you in order to own one.

johnward 13y ago
I would really love to drive a Model S. I'm not sure if all of the Californians on HN realize how special CA is for seeing awesome cars. I saw cars that I never thought I would see in person (in my lifetime) when I was in CA. Not only that but you would see them a handful at a time. I know of 4-5 Model S' in the Pittsburgh area but rarely see exotics.
- DEinspanjer 13y ago
  Check out the teslamotorsclub.com forums, become part of the community, make some friends, crash^H^H^H^H^H drop in on one of their outings or get-togethers. While it isn't every single owner, a surprising number of them are very happy to give detailed tours of their cars and even test drives. In that aspect, it is a very very different population from other luxury or high-performance vehicle owners.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  Pittsburgh has more interesting cars than I'd expected: I've seen an orange lambo or two, and an Enzo... Not to mention all the cool stuff that comes out during the Vintage Grand Prix.
  - johnward 13y ago
    Hey Steve, not sure if you remember me from Vivisimo/PGH.RB but nice to see you drop here. I have yet to see an Enzo, I actually can't remember the last Ferrari I saw in the area. There is a GTR parked in front of the building every now and then and that is exciting in PA. In CA that's just an every day sight.
    - steveklabnik 13y ago

squigs25 13y ago

It's really difficult to emphasize how excessive this is. As a mechanical engineer, I knew just by reading the title that this is really excessive, because the titanium alloy used is definitely a marketing stunt. Titanium has unbelievable tensile strength for its weight, but there's no good reason to make an "underbody shield" out of titanium except for publicity. It would make way more sense to use steel (and maybe you could make a case for something ultra light weight, like carbon fiber, but probably not).

blisterpeanuts 13y ago
But titanium is less dense than steel, hence preferred when weight is important. For an electric car, weight is paramount, I would think.
- squigs25 13y ago
  Actually, nope! While it requires more initial force, that extra energy due to added mass is stored in kinetic energy, and contrary to popular belief, it does not affect efficiency. There was actually a myth busters episode about this. Electric cars would store this added energy in their regenerative breaking, so it shouldn't affect energy consumption. Also, the added weight of steel over titanium would be negligible, maybe 100 lbs tops.
  - DEinspanjer 13y ago
    I didn't see the Myth Busters episode, but isn't there still a loss due to the inherent inefficiency of the motor and regen breaking?
  - blisterpeanuts 13y ago
    I would think that 100 extra pounds, coupled with the inherent energy loss from inefficiency, would be a significant factor in the car's range. That's 75% of one extra passenger. This site (http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/ http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/) lets you plot a course for several EV models and set up some parameters such as weight. Adding a passenger to a Tesla knocks 9 Km off the range, according to them.

eumenides1 13y ago

Dear Internet, please make a tumblr of Tesla car gifs running over things. Thanks!

arikrak 13y ago

Nice move on their part. I think while the Tesla may be less fire-prone than other cars, Musk exaggerates it: "The odds of fire in a Model S, at roughly 1 in 8,000 vehicles, are five times lower than those of an average gasoline car..." What matters is the miles driven by cars, not the number of cars on the roads. It seems likely that other cars are driven longer distances, and Tesla cars are probably used by many owners as a second car.

blisterpeanuts 13y ago
Exaggeration, perhaps, but the majority of collisions occur on local roads rather than on highways, and as you say, the Tesla is more likely to be used locally than on long highway trips, hence more exposed to drunks running stop signs and so forth.
- SeanLuke 13y ago
  None of which has anything to do with vehicle fires, which is the topic at hand.
  - blisterpeanuts 13y ago
    Vehicle fires are a potential result of collisions, no? They don't just occur spontaneously.
    - SeanLuke 13y ago
      Sure they do. Vehicle fires occur spontaneously, due to sabotage (the most common reason), due to various acts of god, due to road debris, and due to collisions. Anyway, two of the three Tesla fires were on freeways, not local roads. The third was under somewhat mysterious circumstances (Mexico).
pja 13y ago
What matters is making the appropriate comparison. Which in this case would be with a population of high-end gasoline driven cars of equivalent age. The population of extant cars contains vehicles that are decades old. It's ought to be unsurprising that they have a higher rate of vehicle fires than the Teslas do. How to the Teslas compare with (say) BMW 5-series cars less than three years old?

olssy 13y ago

Did anyone else notice a screw coming detached from the titanium underbody shield after the impact of the three ball tow hitch, you can also see the shield bend on the impact of the concrete block and the hole where the screw was. It would be kind of ironic if this actually made the car less safe.

Varcht 13y ago
As posted elsewhere it is a plastic snap fastener. Likely a secondary attachment for fit and vibration. No way is it structural or it's absence compromise the structural integrity. Do you honestly think they might have overlooked it if it was critical?
thescrewdriver 13y ago
If my car went over a concrete block with nothing more than a dent in the underside I'd be very happy.
jccooper 13y ago
Plastic rivet, used to hold other plastic pieces to the underside of the car. Probably in this case it's holding on a plastic splash/aero shield, which is what bent. No big deal. Damn things fall off all the time. Go look under yours, I bet you're missing a few. And you haven't crushed any alternators in the process. I was actually pretty disappointed to see that--because I hate those things. I guess it was too much to believe that Tesla wouldn't have any of those damned plastic clips. I guess once I get my (rather unlikely) Model S I'll still have a reason to go to AutoZone.

rikf 13y ago

The biggest take away from that article for me is that they are offering the fix for free to current owners. How many other car companies would do that? Unless they where required to by law which is clearly not the case here.

pistle 13y ago

Elon is revealing too much hubris in his messaging. You can treat people around you like that, but lining up too many people against you is foolish. His intent is to PR+burnish the added safety feature. Instead of selling it as an objective demonstration of the leadership tact that Tesla takes in ensuring driver security, he gets passive-aggressive. Instead of laying out a tremendous history of safety as a foundation for a vision of the future of driving, he lords it as an accomplished achievement... which means the first time someone gets stuck inside the car and is burned alive, all these statements will bite him in the ass. It doesn't matter if that happened 100 times in gas cars the same year. Those manufacturers weren't overselling it. In aggressively projecting strength, it expresses weakness.

_zen 13y ago
So the first death Tesla ever had will nullify their safety record? Ok. All the first death will do is have media go nuts, then Musk will make another blog post calling them idiots for making a big deal of 1 death in the history of Tesla, compared to the thousands of every other car manufacturer.
andrewtbham 13y ago
tesla is weak. they are a huge underdog against the other car companies. they are david versus goliath. they are being cocky. that's what the small dog does :-) there is a risk of a bad accident that could be bad pr. that risk exists with or without the arrogance. elon musk has a high tolerance for calculated risk. that's why he's a billionaire and you and i are 2nd guessing him on hacker news.
- larrys 13y ago
  "elon musk has a high tolerance for calculated risk" And perhaps he will be the survivor that is referred to when stories about survivorship bias are passed around. Or maybe he will crash and burn with that calculated risk. "that's why he's a billionaire and you and i are 2nd guessing him on hacker news." There are billionaires (or close to it) on hacker news btw. Of course if one of those "billionaires" went out and said something like that that wouldn't go over to well would it? Would you like a commenter on HN to say something like "well that's why you are driving a used Yugo and I am driving a brand new Lamborghini that I paid cash for?" as justification for why they know something or are somehow better than you are?

nathanvanfleet 13y ago

"In short, if you ever run over a human head the car is designed to complete decimate it and break it into several pieces." Wow that's harsh.

srg0 13y ago

Assuming the underbody plate is only 2mm thick, the Model S is suddenly accelerating 5% slower. To put it otherwise, every acceleration now takes at least 4% more energy (> 0.01 kWh for an acceleration from from 0 to 65 mph). Sounds great for city driving.

deletes 13y ago
Can we see your calculation and reasoning or did you make the numbers up?
- srg0 13y ago
  Footprint is 2×5 m. Sheet volume is 2×5×0.002 = 0.02 m³. Titanium density is 4507 kg/m³. That gives 90 kg. Without the aluminium deflector. Normal Tesla Model S curb weight is 2108 kg according to Wikipedia. Extra 90 kg is 4.2% mass increase => 4.2% more kinetic energy at the same speed => more energy consumption to accelerate. It also means, that the same force applied to the heavier Model S will accelerate it slower (a = F/m).
  - deletes 13y ago
    I appreciate the response. I'm still skeptical about the actual energy usage. If the % more kinetic energy applies equally to battery energy usage.

bsdetector 13y ago

Curious that it doesn't mention battery swaps. Since this is a PR piece I'm assuming from lack of mention that you can no longer swap batteries after having the extra battery shield added. Battery swap was always a gimmick -- you had to return to the same swap station later to get your same battery back or pay a huge fee. Come on. It looks like they decided fires are worse PR than this gimmick is good PR.

pistle 13y ago
Stop. You're harshing my myopautopia with all your fact checking. Please reaquire a position within the jerculus circulus.

pc86 13y ago

> we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds Let's just think about how awesome that is for a moment.

marcamillion 13y ago
I was just about to write this....it's like Gran Turismo in real life! This is one of those moments when we need to just stop, take a breath, and realize how truly epic and breakthrough this is. Especially as someone that lives in a developing country...where the vast majority of the cars on the road are at least 10-years old....this is just mind-blowingly-awesome!

harichinnan 13y ago

I just had a thought that Elon Musk owning both Tesla and SpaceX, the next logical step would be an electric powered airplane or a chopper. It could be an airplane/chopper that would glide down to safety in case of a mechanical failure, or crash land on rough terrain without fear of catching fire. That would disrupt aviation industry like never before.

Already__Taken 13y ago
Musk has spoken about electric aircraft. It's inevitable and just a question of batteries.

andrewtbham 13y ago

The risk of fire from collision was significantly higher that from conventional ICE. The figures Elon used included fires from electrical and mechanical failures, and even arson. Raising the car mitigated the risks in the short term. This is a long term solution. Kudos. Here is full statistical analysis of why it was a real problem. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24190-Discussion-of-statistical-analysis-of-vehicle-fires-as-it-relates-to-Model-S?p=503252&viewfull=1#post503252 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24190-Discussi...

notastartup 13y ago

Elon Musk is the heartthrob of our generation, producing electric cars, space rockets, wish I was as successful.

malandrew 13y ago

"However, to improve things further, we provided an over- the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody impact." How can a software update impact ground clearance at highway speeds? Is this some special capability of the suspension in a Tesla or are more cars capable of this type of adjustment?

msandford 13y ago
The ground clearance is controlled in software. I'm not sure if it's pneumatic or something else, but it's definitely under the control of some computer system somewhere in the car.

pocketstar 13y ago

On the website: "Welcome! We noticed that you are in Canada . Would you like to view the Canadian version of the site? Visit the Canadian Site" as a small unobtrusive banner along the bottom of the screen that disappears if I continue to scroll through the article. This is the BEST implementation of this geothing I have ever seen. Especially compared to Newegg's massive grey screen banner that asks me every fucking time and never remembers my answer.

mkhalil 13y ago

Tesla will need to continue to fight this PR with the truth and improvements like this; for the big 3, the oil companies, and dealership organizations will continue to try to put them down. They need us to help spread the truth, as much as we need significant improvements in the automotive/transportation industry.

sgy 13y ago

There's another side for the story.. Car Dealers Could be “Napsterized” http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2014/03/24/tesla-raises-fears-that-car-dealers-could-be-napsterized/ http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2014/03/24/tesla-raises-fears-that-...

leccine 13y ago

Long live Tesla and Elon Musk! People like him are the hope of humanity that we actually going forward (rather slowly but hey)...

deleted 13y ago

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rkalla 13y ago

This is what you get when a company/group/effort/community is lead by a "benevolent dictator" - someone with an absolutely pure vision of what they want their output to look like and the autonomy and strength to make it so no matter what. I love this... I actually love that it probably pissed off Musk to no end the amount of attention the fires got and out of spite he went totally over the top and added ballistic plating to the bottom of the car as a super-constructive "fuck you" to everyone that bitched about it. I am picturing this same thing happening at Chrysler or GM and I think 9 out of 10 CEOs would just let the whole non-issue blow over and go back to business - and the 1 CEO that would try and push for a ridiculous over-engineering solution like this would probably get shot down by the board. That's why I like this, it's going way above and beyond because he can and because he believes in the vision he is selling so firmly that there is no wiggle room: "My cars are the best and goddamnit, I'm going to make them the best." <standard disclaimers about personal viewpoints and preferences> Just want to focus on the pursuit of perfection that I find so energizing - to put another way, if you had someone this passionate running each of the major airlines, I wonder what air travel would be like instead of the race-to-the-bottom experience it is now.

aunty_helen 13y ago
It will be interesting to see how this approach changes when the money is a bit tighter ie the model c. You can't just go and add titanium reinforcing to a 30k$ car whenever something bad happens. I think something to moderate Musk's thin skin wouldn't be a bad thing but I certainly agree that the absolute power to do what ever he wants coupled to his technical depth has and will continue to see him changing the transport industry.
- sukuriant 13y ago
  It won't be as low to the ground most likely, so that won't be as much of a problem is my guess. If you've seen a Tesla, they're very low to the ground
the_rightwayz 13y ago
This is a great fix - they will blow apart the competition, fire past the doubters, burn the naysayers and smoke the market!

curiousDog 13y ago

An OTA update to increase the ground clearance at highway speeds. Wow. Just wow. I for one welcome the future and please give this man all the money he wants.

trhway 13y ago

until somebody drives Model S in Iraq and hits IED ...

hyp0 13y ago

love Musk's posts, esp "peace of mind", free retrofit, and that amazing crash that was walked away from. but although there's "ballistic" grade alumimium, titanium that's usually found in "military" applications, and the steel "spear" braced in asphalt test, will it survive assault rifle fire? or anti-tank weapons? how about a tactical nuclear strike? i mean, is it really safe?

lispylol 13y ago
Yeah I can already see the headlines. > "Model S catches fire due to direct impact from nuclear missile". Media goes apeshit and Musk responds by equipping Model S with anti-missile defense system.

po 13y ago

However, to improve things further, we provided an over-the-air software update a few months ago to increase the default ground clearance of the Model S at highway speeds, substantially reducing the odds of a severe underbody impact. This is the most crazy thing about the press release and I feel like it went largely unnoticed. Not that it is a bad thing at all but it really illustrates that we're totally living in a different world than what I grew up with. Cars are now largely defined by software.

trekky1700 13y ago

tschlossmacher 13y ago

You know what I love about Tesla? They continue to innovate and create change in the auto industry, most of all as a company they are powered by transparency. Similar to other luxury auto companies they facilitate innovation. While luxury car companies strive to create beautiful, seamless and future-forward vehicles at a high cost, they can afford (similar to startups) to bring in new ideas to not only rule out competition but give them a market advantage. For example - recently McLaren came up with a way to introduce sound waves, instead of windshield wipers, wipers are a pain! (Not to say that the device generating the waves wouldn't be) Can you imagine toyota, chrysler, or ford doing something of the sort? Of Course not - it takes probably 20 hours for them to build one of theirs, where it might take Rolls Royce 6-7 months. However there are different profit margins and reputable name sake. I like to think Elon has engineered his company nicely in between :), he surely got pissed off by the media and had fun adding that ballistic plate to the bottom

vive 13y ago

Definitely the amount of effort Tesla is devoting to ensure the safety of passengers is highly appreciated. I was awaiting for their Cars to be launched in my country. Definitely I would buy one :) Keep rocking Tesla!