15 ms·

I Spent A Month Living In A Romanian Sexcam Studio

203 points by tchalla 13y ago

ajiang 13y ago
Non-mobile link for those not on a phone http://www.vice.com/read/bucharest-webcam-studios-america-outsourcing-sex-trade http://www.vice.com/read/bucharest-webcam-studios-america-ou...
- cheapsteak 13y ago
  In this case the mobile one is actually the better viewing experience.
wehadfun 13y ago
Well I could comment but I'm at work
- buckbova 13y ago
  Hard at work in a sexcam studio? Honestly is this SFW and is it a video or article?
  - troygoode 13y ago
    It is SFW and is in article format.
    - buckbova 13y ago
      Whoops: "Not allowed to browse Adult/Mature Content category". Foiled again.
      - mschuster91 13y ago
        Probably a keyword filter in the URL... lol
dangrossman 13y ago
There are "sex cam studios" in every country, including America. There are several in Arizona and Nevada. They're just like the coworking spaces us devs/designers have available to us -- space to work in, a solid internet connection, and a network of people in the same industry as you, some of whom will pair up to serve "clients" whose needs are too much for one "contractor".
- LukeWalsh 13y ago
  While this is technically true, I disagree with the undertone. I think the industry is fundamentally different and in its most extreme realizations has been shown to cause severe emotional harm to exploited workers.
  - sbov 13y ago
    Extreme realizations and exploiting workers is a problem in any industry. People have died farming gold in video games. Its why we have labor laws.
    - sillysaurus2 13y ago
      People have died farming gold in video games. What.. really? Died farming gold?
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - pallandt 13y ago
        I think it's possible it might've happened although I don't know a specific case. I have read about several instances of gamers having died as a result of prolonged sitting and developing deep vein thrombosis though. Here is an example: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/xbox-addict-chris-staniforth-killed-blood-clot-marathon-gaming-session-england-article-1.162095 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/xbox-addict-chris-stan...
      - 13y ago
DanBC 13y ago
Many people would pay for non-sexual fully clothed friendship services. Get the price right, get the training right, make sure there is strong blocking to protect against creeps (and set expectations from the start) and I think you'd get considerable business.
- mountaineer 13y ago
  Here is some evidence of that - http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/professional_cuddler_samantha.html http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/profess...
  - jaredsohn 13y ago
    Interestingly, the Cuddle House in Madison, WI (mentioned in the article) was reported as shut down today. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wisconsin-snuggle-shack-shuttered-article-1.1542295 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wisconsin-snuggle-s... They had panic buttons and security cameras in each room and offered to let city officials watch the raw footage.
    - DanBC 13y ago
      What the hell? > “There’s no way that (sexual assault) will not happen,” assistant city attorney Jennifer Zilavy said. “No offense to men, but I don’t know any man who wants to just snuggle.”
      - enraged_camel 13y ago
        Says a lot about the types of boyfriends this Jennifer Zilavy has had in her life!
      - girvo 13y ago
        Jesus. that's a bit depressing
      - Dylan16807 13y ago
adventured 13y ago
The people getting rich off of this industry are the cam sites, such as MyFreeCams or LiveJasmin, typically taking half of the earnings brought in (models get the other half, often split down to a quarter if a studio is involved). Several of them are generating tens of millions in revenue at this point, and are among the top 500 sites globally in traffic. The founder of MyFreeCams runs a VC business in the US with his cam wealth. I wouldn't be surprised if in another five years the cam business is larger than the traditional porn industry, including the large porn sites.
- calvinwest 13y ago
  It's probably already bigger, but they guard their numbers. Tube sites are just portals to get you to go to a cam site or a dating site. There are fewer regulations with those sites as opposed to professionally produced pornography (2257 regs, condom use laws in LA County, etc.). You also don't have to worry about copyright infringement (executing it or defending yourself from it) with cams and dating sites.
  - pkl2 13y ago
    How do they monetize the adult dating sites? Sign up fees? I would think there's not a lot of repeat business there, once the users find out it's a scam. Whereas cam sites can milk people forever.
    - calvinwest 13y ago
      Membership fees and cross-promotions to other adult properties are the primary means of monetization. Some of them will have virtual goods and tribute/tip systems as well. Most often (male) users cannot communicate with other members unless they pay for access. And, what's more scammy, is that if you receive any messages from women, it's highly likely to be a camgirl or female agent from another part of the company. These girls receive commissions for getting non-paying members to convert. Hookup sites are a volume-based business. A common business practice is to whitelabel a successful hookup site; give it a different skin, but share the same database so it looks populated. Once you're in the database, you'll be spammed for any new whitelabeled version that pops up. Also, the user population is 95% male, so you have better odds of finding a female hookup at a gay bar.
calvinwest 13y ago
Several years ago I worked at an adult entertainment company. They were involved in pretty much every vertical of adult content except perhaps print. When I read articles like this one I'm always amazed at how well the tone of numbness carries through. This is the essential characteristic of the adult industry, as everyone involved in it, top to bottom, is numb or becomes numb.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  Numb in what way? Numb to the mundane in-and-out stuff of the business? I'm sure many people in many industries become numb to things.
  - calvinwest 13y ago
    It's a numbness to being objectified, passed around and drained of value. It's not only the "talent" (as the performers are called) that is treated in that manner. All employees are subject to it - from HR, secretaries, video editors, developers, IT, marketing associates, all the way up to executives. In adult entertainment you are not an individual, but rather a resource to be exploited. I've worked in a few other industries and I've never felt the callousness that I did while working in the adult industry. Because everyone is numb, it ends up creating an environment where there is no support and you'll eagerly step over a fallen comrade and right into the meat grinder yourself. I remember sitting at a pub with a group of 8 coworkers, one of whom had just given his two-weeks notice. He confided in us, over beers, that he was extremely depressed. No one at the table said anything in response; no reassurances, no thoughtful gestures. We sat quietly for a few moments before someone changed the conversation, but we all knew why he felt that way.
    - aeontech 13y ago
      I don't think that's unique to adult industry though... I know plenty of people in programming business who are depressed. Read some stories about gaming company death marches. Financial business is also notorious for numbness and meaninglessness it often engenders in its participants. Let's not fail to mention the innumerable hundreds of thousands who are stuck in menial/warehouse/retail/tech support jobs that offer little to no mental nourishment. "Wage slave" is a common term for a reason. I think pretty much any industry can numb and dehumanize people who are not careful to build and maintain their relationships and social structures. I would not expect to be best friends with all my coworkers, and I would feel my life to be severely one-sided if I only had friends among coworkers.
pvnick 13y ago
That was a fascinating, well-written, and yet incredibly sad read. It's easy to lose touch in the relative comfort of the first world, both geographically as well as virtually. I loved the comparison to the red light district. Desperately lonely divorced Western men spending a fortune on these young foreign girls and boys for companionship and sexual gratification, and the young folks drawn into whoring out their bodies over the internet just to make rent and buy food. Or, evidently, to squander their money "Gangnam Style" on luxuries to feel rich. The whole thing reaches a level of depravity almost to the point of absurdity. Interestingly enough, Romania turns out to have among the fastest average broadband connection speeds in the world [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania#Average_Speed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania#Average_Spe...
- yogo 13y ago
  I see it as basic economics, with a history going back as far as biblical times. The real first world problem is looking at this as depraved when in fact it's a real business, with a real demand, that makes money versus some shitty startup.
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    No. Sex trade is never "basic economics". Sexuality is always a big part of the identity, so much so, that violating sexual self-determination leaves victims scarred for life. And yes, sex-cams count. Some models might enjoy this, or are neutral about it. Others don't have an alternative or are even forced, directly or indirectly to do it. All this "basic economics" talk tries to obscure the exploitation that is necessary to provide sex labor at "acceptable" prices. Rape is rape, whatever you pay the pimp.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      > All this "basic economics" talk tries to obscure the exploitation that is necessary to provide sex labor at "acceptable" prices. Rape is rape, whatever you pay the pimp. Good grief. Good or bad, porn and prostitution are not rape crimes and shouldn't be passed off as such.
tn13 13y ago
Well written article. I spend regularly on the cam sites and find the whole model fascinating. Very few models however actually give any meta details such as those provided in this article.
yarou 13y ago
I actually don't find this story all too surprising. What really irked me was the piece on how Japan commodified various aspects of a relationship (i.e. "cuddle cafes"[0], those bar/club places where people pay top dollar to tell their problems to complete strangers). Maybe this is the logical "next step" of human relationships; however, such a conclusion is thoroughly disheartening. [0]http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-japanese-love-industry http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-japanese-lo...
- saraid216 13y ago
  > Maybe this is the logical "next step" of human relationships It might be a logical one, but it's not one we ought to aim for. There's a weak, but building movement going on trying to push us in a different direction. See stuff like Jeremy Rifkin's RSA talk or Enrique Peñalosa's TED talk. I'm sorry about the vagueness, but I'm having trouble coming up with a way to summarize it usefully. =/
  - jseliger 13y ago
    It might be a logical one, but it's not one we ought to aim for I'm also not convinced, for reasons related to Coase's "The Nature of the Firm" that I describe in more detail here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-economic-model-of-paid-sex-coases-the-nature-of-the-firm-gains-from-trade-and-the-gift-economy/ http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-economic-model-o... . The short version is that people reap efficiency gains from not having to negotiate every interaction, which probably points to ongoing couple / small group formation.
  - yarou 13y ago
    I think fundamentally, people are growing more lonely as we shift from the purely physical realm into the abstract world of the web. You have startups like Grouper trying to solve loneliness, but in reality they may even be exacerbating it. We all get a little lonely sometimes, and I don't think there's a viable substitute to physically meeting someone. Barring a fundamental change in our brain chemistry.
swalsh 13y ago
I didn't realize it was real people, I always thought it was some "AI" with loops, kind of like that viral burger king campaign with the chicken.
- girvo 13y ago
  Some are indeed just video loops. They don't do very well though, it's not just the naked body that's needed, it's the interaction that matters more.
marincounty 13y ago
Wasen't this why the Internet and Cams were invented? I'm being facetious(a word my father abused), but kinda serious. I remember talking to Rick about a way to annonymously talk to chicks in the early ninties. It has gotten disgusting though, and I'm sorry, I don't blame guys completely; girls have changed. They care more about money than ever before. Girls in the eighties and ninties didn't know what power they possessed, and I think they had better morals? As to any masoginistic claims; I used "girl", because you in my time women didn't spread their legs for clicks.
unsigner 13y ago
I'm in Bulgaria, not Romania. We have similarly great residential Internet speeds and I think the article is wrong in attributing them to the sex industry. (I have no idea whether there are a significant number of similar businesses here in Sofia.) I think the net connection speeds are due to a combination of two factors: a very dense population (think 10-20 floor cheap residential towers from the times of socialism) a wildly unregulated market. The result was a zillion of small, very aggressive ISPs wiring up neighbourhoods with LAN cables for 5-10 EUR/month "all our router can handle" speeds (only international traffic is metered, national - where the torrent trackers and other torrent users are - is virtually at wire speed).
- josu 13y ago
  I think that the answer is capitalism: >Total number of active providers[in Romania], as of Dec 31 2007: 1338 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania#Internet_Service_Providers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania#Internet_Se...
thenomad 13y ago
Whilst there are a lot of impassioned statements of position in this thread, I'm not seeing a lot of discussion of the massive body of research on sex work and sex workers, or the many commentaries on the industry from people working inside it. Given this is HN, that seems like a bit of a pity. As usual, evidence produces some conclusions which intuition may not. Here's one study on strippers, for example, from the University of Leeds (Reuters link, can't find the original study, irritatingly): http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/27/us-britain-lapdancing-idUSTRE67Q2YW20100827 http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/27/us-britain-lapdanc...
patrickaljord 13y ago
She says the girls are exploited by the studio and the clients are exploited by the girls. A typical marxist way to view things. I see no one being exploited here. All I see is consenting adults passing contracts with each others and all getting satisfaction out of it. Nobody is being forced to do anything. The studio makes good money, the women and men work willingly and make a great wage even by american standards. And clients, well, they may be lonely indeed but for all I know, the few minutes they spend on the cam may be the the happiest minutes of their days, no one is forcing them to pay for the service and they seem extremely satisfied by what they're paying for. So who here is being exploited? All I see is an exchange of transactions between consenting adults that all seem extremely satisfied with what they get out of each deal. What again is wrong with that? Where is the exploitation? I know it sounds good to say these people are all exploited and maybe we should ban these activities to protect these people from hurting themselves because they're too dumb to make their own decisions. This is generating great business for Romania and client satisfactions. Please, don't call it exploitation and let people live their life. Live and let live. Don't judge, don't prohibit things because they offend you.
- 3pt14159 13y ago
  Eh, I'm libertarian as they come, but some of those men are addicted. It is possible and unethical to exploit an adult.
  - patrickaljord 13y ago
    They are just satisfying the clients needs for their service, the clients know exactly what they're doing. She even told one guy she had a boyfriend and everything and the guy didn't care, he just enjoyed paying for his fantasy.
phowat 13y ago
"Unofficially, someone's put a lot of work into the country’s telecommunication infrastructure, with the result that Romania now has a faster download speed than any G20 nation." So, low cost of living and great internet infrastructure. Seems like a good place to found a "regular" startup also. Anyone knows how hard would be to get a visa? Are they part of EU?
- rsynnott 13y ago
  They're part of the EU, and do have a rapidly growing startup scene.
samsonr 13y ago
As a Romanian web developer working remotely for a Western company active in the adult industry and collaborating with video-chat studios in my hometown (Bucharest), I'd like to add my 2 cents: I'm actually in touch with the studio managers here and I can tell you everything happens 'by the book', we are not a 3rd world country. The girls are not enslaved, abused or forced into anything, instead they are recruited through the usual recruiting methods (media), they even work legally and get their pay-checks in time. They can quit whenever they want, all of this happening in complete discretion. You probably know that the websites they work on are blocked within the same country for obvious reasons. Of course the morality of the girls may come into question, but that is strictly up to them. They are just taking advantage of the economical discrepancy between eastern and western Europe (average monthly wage here is around 400 EUR). Yes, there are people spending massive amounts of money on video-chat and things can degenerate quickly (affecting your private life) but same thing happens with gambling sites and no one bats an eye. As for working within such a company I could never say that I became numb or feeling morally wrong. I've had the opportunity to work with quality people on challenging technical issues and it has been a prolific period for my career. The way I see it is as being strictly business. As for Romania, it really is a good place for startups. There are a lot of competent people here wasting their value and time on jobs and wages that some of you would consider ridiculous. But that's just what history left us with and it may take a while for us to get in line.

203 points by tchalla 13y ago

Non-mobile link for those not on a phone http://www.vice.com/read/bucharest-webcam-studios-america-outsourcing-sex-trade http://www.vice.com/read/bucharest-webcam-studios-america-ou...

cheapsteak 13y ago
In this case the mobile one is actually the better viewing experience.

wehadfun 13y ago

Well I could comment but I'm at work

buckbova 13y ago
Hard at work in a sexcam studio? Honestly is this SFW and is it a video or article?
- troygoode 13y ago
  It is SFW and is in article format.
  - buckbova 13y ago
    Whoops: "Not allowed to browse Adult/Mature Content category". Foiled again.
    - mschuster91 13y ago
      Probably a keyword filter in the URL... lol

dangrossman 13y ago

There are "sex cam studios" in every country, including America. There are several in Arizona and Nevada. They're just like the coworking spaces us devs/designers have available to us -- space to work in, a solid internet connection, and a network of people in the same industry as you, some of whom will pair up to serve "clients" whose needs are too much for one "contractor".

LukeWalsh 13y ago
While this is technically true, I disagree with the undertone. I think the industry is fundamentally different and in its most extreme realizations has been shown to cause severe emotional harm to exploited workers.
- sbov 13y ago
  Extreme realizations and exploiting workers is a problem in any industry. People have died farming gold in video games. Its why we have labor laws.
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    People have died farming gold in video games. What.. really? Died farming gold?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - pallandt 13y ago
      I think it's possible it might've happened although I don't know a specific case. I have read about several instances of gamers having died as a result of prolonged sitting and developing deep vein thrombosis though. Here is an example: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/xbox-addict-chris-staniforth-killed-blood-clot-marathon-gaming-session-england-article-1.162095 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/xbox-addict-chris-stan...
    - 13y ago

DanBC 13y ago

Many people would pay for non-sexual fully clothed friendship services. Get the price right, get the training right, make sure there is strong blocking to protect against creeps (and set expectations from the start) and I think you'd get considerable business.

mountaineer 13y ago
Here is some evidence of that - http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/professional_cuddler_samantha.html http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/profess...
- jaredsohn 13y ago
  Interestingly, the Cuddle House in Madison, WI (mentioned in the article) was reported as shut down today. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wisconsin-snuggle-shack-shuttered-article-1.1542295 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wisconsin-snuggle-s... They had panic buttons and security cameras in each room and offered to let city officials watch the raw footage.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    What the hell? > “There’s no way that (sexual assault) will not happen,” assistant city attorney Jennifer Zilavy said. “No offense to men, but I don’t know any man who wants to just snuggle.”
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      Says a lot about the types of boyfriends this Jennifer Zilavy has had in her life!
    - girvo 13y ago
      Jesus. that's a bit depressing
    - Dylan16807 13y ago

adventured 13y ago

The people getting rich off of this industry are the cam sites, such as MyFreeCams or LiveJasmin, typically taking half of the earnings brought in (models get the other half, often split down to a quarter if a studio is involved). Several of them are generating tens of millions in revenue at this point, and are among the top 500 sites globally in traffic. The founder of MyFreeCams runs a VC business in the US with his cam wealth. I wouldn't be surprised if in another five years the cam business is larger than the traditional porn industry, including the large porn sites.

calvinwest 13y ago
It's probably already bigger, but they guard their numbers. Tube sites are just portals to get you to go to a cam site or a dating site. There are fewer regulations with those sites as opposed to professionally produced pornography (2257 regs, condom use laws in LA County, etc.). You also don't have to worry about copyright infringement (executing it or defending yourself from it) with cams and dating sites.
- pkl2 13y ago
  How do they monetize the adult dating sites? Sign up fees? I would think there's not a lot of repeat business there, once the users find out it's a scam. Whereas cam sites can milk people forever.
  - calvinwest 13y ago
    Membership fees and cross-promotions to other adult properties are the primary means of monetization. Some of them will have virtual goods and tribute/tip systems as well. Most often (male) users cannot communicate with other members unless they pay for access. And, what's more scammy, is that if you receive any messages from women, it's highly likely to be a camgirl or female agent from another part of the company. These girls receive commissions for getting non-paying members to convert. Hookup sites are a volume-based business. A common business practice is to whitelabel a successful hookup site; give it a different skin, but share the same database so it looks populated. Once you're in the database, you'll be spammed for any new whitelabeled version that pops up. Also, the user population is 95% male, so you have better odds of finding a female hookup at a gay bar.

calvinwest 13y ago

Several years ago I worked at an adult entertainment company. They were involved in pretty much every vertical of adult content except perhaps print. When I read articles like this one I'm always amazed at how well the tone of numbness carries through. This is the essential characteristic of the adult industry, as everyone involved in it, top to bottom, is numb or becomes numb.

MichaelGG 13y ago
Numb in what way? Numb to the mundane in-and-out stuff of the business? I'm sure many people in many industries become numb to things.
- calvinwest 13y ago
  It's a numbness to being objectified, passed around and drained of value. It's not only the "talent" (as the performers are called) that is treated in that manner. All employees are subject to it - from HR, secretaries, video editors, developers, IT, marketing associates, all the way up to executives. In adult entertainment you are not an individual, but rather a resource to be exploited. I've worked in a few other industries and I've never felt the callousness that I did while working in the adult industry. Because everyone is numb, it ends up creating an environment where there is no support and you'll eagerly step over a fallen comrade and right into the meat grinder yourself. I remember sitting at a pub with a group of 8 coworkers, one of whom had just given his two-weeks notice. He confided in us, over beers, that he was extremely depressed. No one at the table said anything in response; no reassurances, no thoughtful gestures. We sat quietly for a few moments before someone changed the conversation, but we all knew why he felt that way.
  - aeontech 13y ago
    I don't think that's unique to adult industry though... I know plenty of people in programming business who are depressed. Read some stories about gaming company death marches. Financial business is also notorious for numbness and meaninglessness it often engenders in its participants. Let's not fail to mention the innumerable hundreds of thousands who are stuck in menial/warehouse/retail/tech support jobs that offer little to no mental nourishment. "Wage slave" is a common term for a reason. I think pretty much any industry can numb and dehumanize people who are not careful to build and maintain their relationships and social structures. I would not expect to be best friends with all my coworkers, and I would feel my life to be severely one-sided if I only had friends among coworkers.

pvnick 13y ago

That was a fascinating, well-written, and yet incredibly sad read. It's easy to lose touch in the relative comfort of the first world, both geographically as well as virtually. I loved the comparison to the red light district. Desperately lonely divorced Western men spending a fortune on these young foreign girls and boys for companionship and sexual gratification, and the young folks drawn into whoring out their bodies over the internet just to make rent and buy food. Or, evidently, to squander their money "Gangnam Style" on luxuries to feel rich. The whole thing reaches a level of depravity almost to the point of absurdity. Interestingly enough, Romania turns out to have among the fastest average broadband connection speeds in the world [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania#Average_Speed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania#Average_Spe...

yogo 13y ago
I see it as basic economics, with a history going back as far as biblical times. The real first world problem is looking at this as depraved when in fact it's a real business, with a real demand, that makes money versus some shitty startup.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  No. Sex trade is never "basic economics". Sexuality is always a big part of the identity, so much so, that violating sexual self-determination leaves victims scarred for life. And yes, sex-cams count. Some models might enjoy this, or are neutral about it. Others don't have an alternative or are even forced, directly or indirectly to do it. All this "basic economics" talk tries to obscure the exploitation that is necessary to provide sex labor at "acceptable" prices. Rape is rape, whatever you pay the pimp.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    > All this "basic economics" talk tries to obscure the exploitation that is necessary to provide sex labor at "acceptable" prices. Rape is rape, whatever you pay the pimp. Good grief. Good or bad, porn and prostitution are not rape crimes and shouldn't be passed off as such.

tn13 13y ago

Well written article. I spend regularly on the cam sites and find the whole model fascinating. Very few models however actually give any meta details such as those provided in this article.

yarou 13y ago

I actually don't find this story all too surprising. What really irked me was the piece on how Japan commodified various aspects of a relationship (i.e. "cuddle cafes"[0], those bar/club places where people pay top dollar to tell their problems to complete strangers). Maybe this is the logical "next step" of human relationships; however, such a conclusion is thoroughly disheartening. [0]http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-japanese-love-industry http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-japanese-lo...

saraid216 13y ago
> Maybe this is the logical "next step" of human relationships It might be a logical one, but it's not one we ought to aim for. There's a weak, but building movement going on trying to push us in a different direction. See stuff like Jeremy Rifkin's RSA talk or Enrique Peñalosa's TED talk. I'm sorry about the vagueness, but I'm having trouble coming up with a way to summarize it usefully. =/
- jseliger 13y ago
  It might be a logical one, but it's not one we ought to aim for I'm also not convinced, for reasons related to Coase's "The Nature of the Firm" that I describe in more detail here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-economic-model-of-paid-sex-coases-the-nature-of-the-firm-gains-from-trade-and-the-gift-economy/ http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/an-economic-model-o... . The short version is that people reap efficiency gains from not having to negotiate every interaction, which probably points to ongoing couple / small group formation.
- yarou 13y ago
  I think fundamentally, people are growing more lonely as we shift from the purely physical realm into the abstract world of the web. You have startups like Grouper trying to solve loneliness, but in reality they may even be exacerbating it. We all get a little lonely sometimes, and I don't think there's a viable substitute to physically meeting someone. Barring a fundamental change in our brain chemistry.

swalsh 13y ago

I didn't realize it was real people, I always thought it was some "AI" with loops, kind of like that viral burger king campaign with the chicken.

girvo 13y ago
Some are indeed just video loops. They don't do very well though, it's not just the naked body that's needed, it's the interaction that matters more.

marincounty 13y ago

Wasen't this why the Internet and Cams were invented? I'm being facetious(a word my father abused), but kinda serious. I remember talking to Rick about a way to annonymously talk to chicks in the early ninties. It has gotten disgusting though, and I'm sorry, I don't blame guys completely; girls have changed. They care more about money than ever before. Girls in the eighties and ninties didn't know what power they possessed, and I think they had better morals? As to any masoginistic claims; I used "girl", because you in my time women didn't spread their legs for clicks.

unsigner 13y ago

I'm in Bulgaria, not Romania. We have similarly great residential Internet speeds and I think the article is wrong in attributing them to the sex industry. (I have no idea whether there are a significant number of similar businesses here in Sofia.) I think the net connection speeds are due to a combination of two factors: a very dense population (think 10-20 floor cheap residential towers from the times of socialism) a wildly unregulated market. The result was a zillion of small, very aggressive ISPs wiring up neighbourhoods with LAN cables for 5-10 EUR/month "all our router can handle" speeds (only international traffic is metered, national - where the torrent trackers and other torrent users are - is virtually at wire speed).

josu 13y ago
I think that the answer is capitalism: >Total number of active providers[in Romania], as of Dec 31 2007: 1338 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania#Internet_Service_Providers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania#Internet_Se...

thenomad 13y ago

Whilst there are a lot of impassioned statements of position in this thread, I'm not seeing a lot of discussion of the massive body of research on sex work and sex workers, or the many commentaries on the industry from people working inside it. Given this is HN, that seems like a bit of a pity. As usual, evidence produces some conclusions which intuition may not. Here's one study on strippers, for example, from the University of Leeds (Reuters link, can't find the original study, irritatingly): http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/27/us-britain-lapdancing-idUSTRE67Q2YW20100827 http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/27/us-britain-lapdanc...

patrickaljord 13y ago

She says the girls are exploited by the studio and the clients are exploited by the girls. A typical marxist way to view things. I see no one being exploited here. All I see is consenting adults passing contracts with each others and all getting satisfaction out of it. Nobody is being forced to do anything. The studio makes good money, the women and men work willingly and make a great wage even by american standards. And clients, well, they may be lonely indeed but for all I know, the few minutes they spend on the cam may be the the happiest minutes of their days, no one is forcing them to pay for the service and they seem extremely satisfied by what they're paying for. So who here is being exploited? All I see is an exchange of transactions between consenting adults that all seem extremely satisfied with what they get out of each deal. What again is wrong with that? Where is the exploitation? I know it sounds good to say these people are all exploited and maybe we should ban these activities to protect these people from hurting themselves because they're too dumb to make their own decisions. This is generating great business for Romania and client satisfactions. Please, don't call it exploitation and let people live their life. Live and let live. Don't judge, don't prohibit things because they offend you.

3pt14159 13y ago
Eh, I'm libertarian as they come, but some of those men are addicted. It is possible and unethical to exploit an adult.
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  They are just satisfying the clients needs for their service, the clients know exactly what they're doing. She even told one guy she had a boyfriend and everything and the guy didn't care, he just enjoyed paying for his fantasy.

phowat 13y ago

"Unofficially, someone's put a lot of work into the country’s telecommunication infrastructure, with the result that Romania now has a faster download speed than any G20 nation." So, low cost of living and great internet infrastructure. Seems like a good place to found a "regular" startup also. Anyone knows how hard would be to get a visa? Are they part of EU?

rsynnott 13y ago
They're part of the EU, and do have a rapidly growing startup scene.

samsonr 13y ago

As a Romanian web developer working remotely for a Western company active in the adult industry and collaborating with video-chat studios in my hometown (Bucharest), I'd like to add my 2 cents: I'm actually in touch with the studio managers here and I can tell you everything happens 'by the book', we are not a 3rd world country. The girls are not enslaved, abused or forced into anything, instead they are recruited through the usual recruiting methods (media), they even work legally and get their pay-checks in time. They can quit whenever they want, all of this happening in complete discretion. You probably know that the websites they work on are blocked within the same country for obvious reasons. Of course the morality of the girls may come into question, but that is strictly up to them. They are just taking advantage of the economical discrepancy between eastern and western Europe (average monthly wage here is around 400 EUR). Yes, there are people spending massive amounts of money on video-chat and things can degenerate quickly (affecting your private life) but same thing happens with gambling sites and no one bats an eye. As for working within such a company I could never say that I became numb or feeling morally wrong. I've had the opportunity to work with quality people on challenging technical issues and it has been a prolific period for my career. The way I see it is as being strictly business. As for Romania, it really is a good place for startups. There are a lot of competent people here wasting their value and time on jobs and wages that some of you would consider ridiculous. But that's just what history left us with and it may take a while for us to get in line.