21 ms·

Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

286 points by velodrome 13y ago

ffrryuu 13y ago
Have they added color profile support yet?
- ihuman 13y ago
  What do you mean by color profile? Something like f.lux, where it changes the color of the screen?
  - Samuel_Michon 13y ago
    I think he meant ColorSync[1] or ICC support for color management. An image that uses a color space other than sRGB (like Adobe RGB or CMYK) will look different on iOS than it does on OS X. Apparently, iOS 4 did add ICC support in CoreGraphics for apps to use [2] but it seems to me that Apple’s apps don’t take advantage of it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorsync http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorsync [2] https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/releasenotes/General/WhatsNewIniOS/Articles/iPhoneOS4.html https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/releasenotes/General...
    - ffrryuu 13y ago
      Yeah, I want to calibrate ios screens. Using something like the i1 display pro. It made a huge difference on my computer monitors. I want a system wide color profile support, like what we have in Windows or OSX... Not a per app support.
      - Samuel_Michon 13y ago
        I hear you. I too use the i1 display pro and I would love to review designs on my iPad without having to convert the files to sRGB first.
      - me2i81 13y ago
        Calibrating the screen and supporting embedded profiles in images are two different things. It would be nice if images with embedded profiles rendered correctly to the screen, e.g. with Safari on iPhone, using a canned profile that assumes that Apple has correctly profiled the mean iPhone display and that the variance between particular screens isn't too high. From what I can tell the iPhone doesn't do color management at all and the display resembles sRGB enough to call it good enough for a consumer device. On the other hand I'd assume that the number of people who would want to use an external colorimeter and make a profile for their particular iPhone was not a market big enough for anyone (let alone Apple) to bother with, and since the iPhone has no mechanism to actually use that profile, it's pointless except for the purpose of converting images to iPhone in a desktop app, but in that case why would you care about your particular iPhone?
  - coob 13y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorSync http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorSync
alxbrun 13y ago
When I see Apple putting forward as a key feature the number of bits in their processor in a general public announcement... I'm really feeling the "new" product is not really new. In the past Apple was always laughing at the PC ads boasting processor speed and memory capacity.
- wmf 13y ago
  At least it's running in 64-bit mode, unlike the G5 when it was announced.
- xutopia 13y ago
  That did seem rather bizarre to me as well.
- seiji 13y ago
  In the past Apple was always laughing at the PC ads boasting processor speed and memory capacity. The last occurrence of that would have been almost ten years ago. They've always highlighted their technical superiority in presentations.
- davidcollantes 13y ago
  The leaks contribute to take away some of the awe. Yet, A7, M7, iOS 7, new camera, new flash, Touch ID. It looks new to me.
  - alxbrun 13y ago
    My "is it new?" test works this way: how would I explain what's new to my father (who is 74 years old and knows not much about tech). A7, M7, iOS 7, better camera and flash: not much to say. Touch ID OK that's new, but that's not much.
    - davidcollantes 13y ago
      I am sure you can find a way to explain, it is not that hard. Touch ID is a lot! No more password entering on iTunes. A godsend for someone who has a 26 characters passphrase like me.
ihuman 13y ago
Instead of using the iPhone 5 as the free option, they are discontinuing it and using the 4S as the free one.
- sdoowpilihp 13y ago
  I would surmise that is likely due to the iPhone 5C and iPhone 5 having very similar specs. A free iPhone 5 would cannibalize the 5C sales. Why pay 100 dollars for a color case? Then again, a number of people paid the "black tax" for their macbook a number of years back.
  - rdl 13y ago
    I wonder what this will do to the resale value of iPhone 5 64G Verizon. I'd upgrade from 5 -> 5S if it net cost were <$300, but it appears Priceonomics says it is $320-$450, and a new iPhone 5S 64G is $849.
    - Jtsummers 13y ago
      Verizon iPhone 5 64GB black is listed as $370 on NextWorth so that's a maybe. I've had luck in past years of reducing my upgrade costs to under $100, but AT&T is being less generous on the contract period this time around (or it didn't line up as well as in the past).
      - rdl 13y ago
        Yeah, I'll probably just list my 5 "high" on Amazon, and buy a 5S IFF it sells, or just pay the Apple tax for the year. I'm not sure how Verizon works with upgrades when you have multiple devices on an account (phone, 3 iPads, 2 Mifi); could I just upgrade one of the iPads I brought to an iPhone 5S and shuffle things around?
        Jtsummers 13y ago
        I am not the person to ask about Verizon. I'm with AT&T because of my unlimited data plan and their excellent coverage in this area. That said, I'm considering something similar for upgrading to the 5S, NextWorth was just a place to look at prices to gauge what I should try and sell it for. I also only have the one data plan on AT&T, never got one for my iPad (wifi only).
Heliosmaster 13y ago
About the ID fingerprints? Am I the only one so in constant fear and doubt that thinks this would be a great way of bulk collecting the fingerprints of ANYONE?
- ihuman 13y ago
  They say that applications don't have access to it and it is never uploaded online, but until the device is out there is no way to verify it.
  - charlescearl 13y ago
    Open source the M7 and then we'll trust them. Where's the backdoor at?
  - hershel 13y ago
    Even after the device is out it would be very hard(if not impossible) to verify it doesn't send fingerprint or hash of fingerprint online. There's plenty of places they can hide this.
    - danabramov 13y ago
      Don't you think this would be a huge scandal, if it was revealed? Considering they specifically say it is not uploaded? Just saying. Why would they take such a risk?
      - sdoowpilihp 13y ago
        At the very least, It would open them up to a massive class action lawsuit. The repercussions would likely run much deeper that though.
        GVIrish 13y ago
        The government has given legal immunity to telecoms that collaborated with NSA spying in the past, I'm sure they'd extend that immunity to Apple if need be.
United857 13y ago
Two biggest new things for developers: * OpenGL ES 3.0 support (things like true HDR rendering, etc. will finally be possible) * 64-bit support. For most app developers, this will just be a recompile. The tricky part is that any closed-source 3rd party SDKs/libraries/frameworks used will also have to be rebuilt first by their authors.
- cliveowen 13y ago
  More importantly, what are they talking about when they say 64-bit? The architecture uses 64-bit addresses? The processor uses 64-bit registers? What are the main advantages to current CPUs?
  - klodolph 13y ago
    "64-bit processor" almost universally refers to using a 64-bit word size: 64 bits of virtual memory space (even if only some of it is mappable) and 64-bit ALUs. This was well covered when desktops switched, but the main advantages are that certain operations are faster (e.g. RSA) and the extra address space lets you use mmap() and the page cache for everything, instead of writing your own stupid cache. Disadvantages are that 64-bit code consumes more memory. There are ways around this.
    - MichaelGG 13y ago
      I'm not sure why AMD64 didn't specify a 32-bit memory model mode while providing 64-bit registers and the rest of the improvements. Like X32 for Linux. Then if you're not using all that RAM, you can benefit from smaller pointers and so on while still having 64-bit words.
  - secalex 13y ago
    Almost certainly this means they are supporting ARMv8: http://www.arm.com/files/downloads/ARMv8_Architecture.pdf http://www.arm.com/files/downloads/ARMv8_Architecture.pdf From the deck: -32bit RISC Instructions -64bit GP registers -64bit operands -64bit pointers
josteink 13y ago
I wonder how the people claiming plastic in those Android-phones feels "cheap" is going to react to this.
- kaolinite 13y ago
  The plastic they're using (hard-coated polycarbonate) is, I believe, the same plastic used on many of the Nokia Lumia phones which a lot of people say feel much higher quality than other, regular plastic phones. That said, the 5C is the cheaper option and it isn't going to feel as good as the aluminium of the 5S. I don't however think it will be anywhere near as cheap-feeling as other phones (e.g. the Samsung Galaxy S4 which has been described as feeling "greasy").
  - janlukacs 13y ago
    and that's why Nokia posted this: https://twitter.com/nokia_uk/status/377483408043036672/photo/1 https://twitter.com/nokia_uk/status/377483408043036672/photo...
    - siglesias 13y ago
      Ads of multicolored devices featuring content that matches the enclosure? Who would've thunk it? http://cl.ly/image/1U3i2F2v2r43 http://cl.ly/image/1U3i2F2v2r43
      - janlukacs 13y ago
        I actually played with a 620 for a day or two. Once you will hold them both in your hand it will make sense.
      - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
        Those are all just staged for ads (unless you think you can't listen to the Beatles Red Album on a blue nano and vice versa) except for the latest one, which came out after the Nokia devices. I'm sure someone did it before (I seem to recall IE5 letting you change the interface to match the early iMac colours) but your comment (and a quick glance at the linked image) is misleading as it stands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_Mac#Internet_Explorer_5_for_Mac_distinguishing_features http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_Mac#Inter...
climatewarrior2 13y ago
The NSA now will have a database of everybody's fingerprints!! Great :D
- sdoowpilihp 13y ago
  First of all, this is not a constructive comment. Second, they explicitly said that the fingerprint never leaves the phone (and believe me, people will be looking to verify. It would be a huge boon to a persons career to be the person that caught apple in that lie).
  - aw3c2 13y ago
    How are you going to check? iOS is closed-source. You cannot monitor the traffic 24/7 over the whole lifetime of the device. Maybe the fingerprint delivery can be ordered remotely.
    - awestley 13y ago
      It's a phone... If you are concerned that your fingerprints MIGHT be uploaded you need to consider just not using a smartphone. AKA "a voluntary spy device".
      - mikeash 13y ago
        It's quite odd. Here's a device that can listen to everything you say all day long, that can read all of your e-mail, take pictures of you and your surroundings, sniff all of your passwords, etc. etc. etc., but people are freaking out because it might be stealing your fingerprints, which you leave thousands of on various public surfaces every day anyway? I just don't get it.
        Dirlewanger 13y ago
        Typical initial outrage at something new. The phone already logs your every move yet people have already forgotten about it and clearly don't care.
knodi 13y ago
This is what I don't like about apple the 5s $199 version has 16GB and the 5c $199 version has 32GB. They should have at-lease giving us 24GB for 5s $199. Apple being apple trying to keep margins high. The new colors kind of suck but great for high school girls.
- allsystemsgo 13y ago
  It took quite some time for me to fill up the 16GB. I'm more of a power user now, so I'll be upgrading to the 32GB but, for most 16GB is plenty.
  - pdubbs 13y ago
    I was starting to fill mine up, but I started using iTunes Match and automatic photo uploads to Dropbox and that freed up a good amount of space.
  - jsight 13y ago
    In my experience, power users need less storage than non-power users. How many novices have you seen with 16GB nearly full of photos and videos?
  - mratzloff 13y ago
    My music alone fills up my 64 GB 4S. I am waiting for the 128 GB.
    - randomdata 13y ago
      On the other hand, my 4S has a persistent mobile data connection, so storing music locally is of no great benefit to me. I guess all we can conclude is that 16GB can be huge, or tiny, depending on how you want to use your device.
      - julsonl 13y ago
        Having local storage is good for services like Spotify though, especially for those long road trips where the signal can be a bit spotty.
jetru 13y ago
No one mentioned that stealing an iPhone is much more difficult now. Thieves need to be careful not to touch the sensor!
- mikeash 13y ago
  Or they take your thumb as well as your phone.
amenod 13y ago
Finally! Can't wait for jailbreaks for 4S and 5 to come out now... :)
chrisgd 13y ago
I am still waiting for the same processor and camera in a smaller size with a longer battery life.
- wmf 13y ago
  The iPhone is already "miniature" by Android standards.
  - chrisgd 13y ago
    Comment really applies to any phone's next generation.
janlukacs 13y ago
Wait till you see the iPhone 6 :)
rdl 13y ago
I'm sad it seems most likely the 5S will be fingerprint OR pin/passphrase to unlock. I can imagine situations at borders or in interactions with police where compelling a fingerprint swipe is physically easier than compelling a passphrase entry, and I think it is also legally easier to compel later. The ideal would be a 4-8 digit numeric PIN with strong "10 tries and it dies" plus fingerprint, and as a backup, a full length desktop-style passphrase (iCloud passphrase). And maybe some kind of "only works on pre-authorized devices" enrollment system requiring the passphrase to generate local keys, too.
- danabramov 13y ago
  Tim Carmody's tweet suggests you can still use the numeric code: https://twitter.com/tcarmody/status/377495998727483392 https://twitter.com/tcarmody/status/377495998727483392
  - rdl 13y ago
    That's even worse. I want to be able to set, at my option: 1) PIN-only 2) FPR + PIN (where you must use iCloud to get in if your FPR doesn't read) 3) for morons, FPR only. I currently use a much stronger than 4 digit numeric PIN, but it is honestly a pain. If I could set both the FPR and PIN as required to get in, I could use a shorter PIN. If I'm allowed to bypass the FPR entirely, the PIN has to remain as strong as it is now. (What I'd also like is something better than hardcoded timeouts for requiring the PIN. Like "require FPR every single time you unlock, require PIN+FPR if it has been <30 minutes or <120 minutes but no movement on accelerometer OR connected in my car, require FPR+icloud passphrase otherwise". Fully configurable by the user.)
    - gareim 13y ago
      His tweet doesn't confirm or reject your #2 (just that PIN is available as an option), so just relax and wait to see. I mean, I doubt they'd implement FDR + PIN like you want (cause it seems a minority wish?), but it's still possible.
    - drivers99 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rodedwards 13y ago
Better photos, TouchID, snappier performance -- a traditional incremental Apple upgrade befitting the "S" moniker. I've long been wondering when/if Apple would take on NFC and things like payments more aggressively. I get the feeling that they're going to skip NFC entirely, and that TouchID is going to be a large part of processing transactions without the need for any physical device interaction (swipe/tap/bump). Right now I've got that hazy tip-of-iceberg feeling that Apple is probably in the early phases of executing some grand vision that I can't yet see the entirety of. And that's why Apple continues to be the leading consumer device co: who else out there has "vision?" Google is the closest, but IMHO Android has always felt reactionary, not visionary.
- nutate 13y ago
  The new PayPal Beacon works with bluetooth LE... NFC seems like a step back from that.
  - rodedwards 13y ago
    Hmm - I'm not familiar with Beacon, but will take a look. In my mind, NFC has always sort of felt like a clunky way of imposing a physical constraint on what should be a purely electronic transaction.
    - arrrg 13y ago
      NFC didn’t really break through in the market. Not yet, not ever, I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure that Apple is betting on Bluetooth LE, something their devices already have. I could see that work out.
      - alexcroox 13y ago
        Don't you wonder that the reason it didn't break the market was because iPhones never shipped with it. Same as QR codes, no default app to use them = poor adoption of the technology.
  - blisterpeanuts 13y ago
swamp40 13y ago
I was really hoping for NFC support - sigh. I do love the fingerprint sensor and the intelligent auto-focusing features, though. Blurry smartphone pictures are so ubiquitous these days.
- general_failure 13y ago
  there's airdrop instead of nfc
  - ja27 13y ago
    And Bluetooth 4.0 (low energy). I doubt Apple will ever do NFC.
    - swamp40 13y ago
      Yes, either of those technologies would work as well. I'm still betting it will show up in the iWatch, though. There is just so much NFC-enabled Point-Of-Sale hardware already out there.
- bratsche 13y ago
  Why does everyone keep going on about NFC? It's been on Android for years and it's never been used in any meaningful way. I don't see Apple introducing some new hardware component just for the sake of adding it. They'll introduce something when they have a really solid use for it, which is something that Google seems to have never really had with NFC.
  - hrktb 13y ago
    At one point of the keynote NTT Docomo was specially mentionned. They pioneered mobile NFC in Japan, where it's actually useful, as in you can forget your wallet at home and you might not notice as long as you have your phone. They introduced emoji almost only for the japanese market at first, they could have done the same for NFC as well, that would have been great.
  - swamp40 13y ago
pilif 13y ago
Now that we have to consider the iPhones to be backdoored by the NSA, I wonder whether I really want to give them my fingerprint together with the rest of my data. I'm also not so sure whether a fingerprint can't still be easily faked (like it was possible on that Mythbusters episode for example). Personally, I think I'd rather stay with my passcode. Did you btw know that you can turn off "simple passcode" and then use a purely numeric longer passcode? In that case the iPhone will still show the big easy-to-hit numeric keyboard allowing you to type in the arbitrary length numeric code. Yes. It's not as safe as a long alphanumeric password, but this gets annoying SO quickly, I'd rather type in my 8 digits.
- cwilson 13y ago
  Apple specifically stated that your fingerprint is stored and encrypted only on the A7 chip, and not iCloud or anywhere else. It's mentioned in the video as well: http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch
  - lfuller 13y ago
    I believe that pilif's issue is with potential undisclosed storage of the fingerprint data on Apple's servers.
  - jontas 13y ago
    I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, but if in fact the NSA required copies of all fingerprints, I doubt Apple would be allowed to publicize it.
    - danabramov 13y ago
      But would they still go about implementing it? I mean, it sounds crazy from a business perspective.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
drivebyacct2 13y ago
Why the fuck do people link to TechCrunch? Seriously, pick any other non-Gawker outlet and it's going to be better and higher quality. Just fucking link the Verge and get over it.
Pxtl 13y ago
I'm still weirded out by the idea that Apple has finally split the iPhone line into "premium" and "value" streams. It just seems so... un-Apple. The whole "last-year's-model" discount was a bit of a kludge, but still Apple stood out from the rest of the industry with such a simple product line - device, biannual release, size, that's it.
- rayiner 13y ago
  Apple has had premium and value lines before. Indeed, during the heyday of the Macbook, it was split into a premium aluminum and a cheaper polycarbonate model.
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    Yes, obviously the PC/Laptop side of the business has always had this kind of differentiation (also the pure-Mp3 player business), but the iOS stuff has avoided this since the inception of the iPhone. The iPad, iPod, and iPhone were just "size only". Now that Jobs is gone and competition has heated up, we're seeing Apple back away from that with the iPad mini and the 5s. It feels like a big shift for Apple.
    - danabramov 13y ago
      >Now that Jobs is gone Seriously, what does this have to do with the point you're making?
      - ekanes 13y ago
        Jobs was famous for eliminating SKUs and simplifying.
        danabramov 13y ago
        Then how about that? >But Apple executives, including Mr. Jobs, were seriously considering selling a less-expensive but similar phone as early as 2009, according to former executives involved in the plan. Then, the manufacturing teams were most opposed to it. >Their concerns, which I previously reported on in the Wall Street Journal, were about manufacturing complexity: how could Apple build so many models with so many different components? Apple’s relatively simple supply chain had always been a big competitive advantage. Having relatively few products allowed it to focus, buy parts at scale and keep things secret. http://jessicalessin.com/2013/09/10/what-really-held-up-the-cheap-iphone-for-years/ http://jessicalessin.com/2013/09/10/what-really-held-up-the-... What I want to say is, none of us, I suppose, were in the man's head, or worked at Cupertino. We can only speculate why there is a single iPhone/iPad. (And as you can read from the article, it may be due to operations and not because Jobs was so much about “simplicity“.) Saying “Now that Steve is dead” contributes nothing to discussion unless you work at Apple and really know what you're talking about. (In which case your comments are very valuable.)
wavesounds 13y ago
Edit: Read "on-contract" as "no-contract" and almost threw a party, thanks for pointing out my mistake guys
- awestley 13y ago
  You must have missed the word "starting" ;)
  - iaskwhy 13y ago
    Or "on-contract"?
    - wavesounds 13y ago
      Ah damn dyslexia kicking in, totally read that as "no-contract" thanks
- abraham 13y ago
  "on-contract" vs "without a contract"
ginko 13y ago
Aren't swipe sensors considered more secure than press-on ones? There's all kinds of very simple recipes out there to trick those. A swipe sensor would have needed less space to boot.
- gfodor 13y ago
  Press-on sensor is obvious because it mimics the current home button perfectly.
ffrryuu 13y ago
Fingerprint sensor + NSA chip? Wow, that'd get banned in multiple countries fast. Mark my words.
- thomaslutz 13y ago
  Paranoid much?
meerita 13y ago
I visualize this: husband is sleeping deeply, wife picks up the phone and taps the home button while he's sleeping and unlocks the phone. Release the kraken.
- themstheones 13y ago
  If he doesn't have anything to hide from his wife then he has nothing to worry about.
  - shire 13y ago
    I agree trust and honesty is part of a healthy relationship.
  - Wingman4l7 13y ago
    So this argument is complete crap when it comes to governments but totally okay when it comes to spouses? How about a series of emails joking & griping about your wife's habits to your best friend? Completely harmless but not exactly the kind of thing that you'd want them reading. Our digital selves trail back in time farther and farther these days; would you want your wife reading emails between you and an ex from before you met her?
  - AYBABTME 13y ago
    There's a deeply nested thread, right above, of people arguing against that idea. You just need to replace 'wife' with 'NSA'. I just point it out because I find it's funny.
- kami8845 13y ago
  You don't think the wife would've seen the husband enter his passcode in front of her at least once?
- tedunangst 13y ago
  "Honey my battery is dead. Can I borrow your phone?"
- nir 13y ago
nutate 13y ago
I've been thinking about getting a withings pulse or a misfit shine... now I'll wait to see what the 5S itself can do.
siliconviking 13y ago
Very disappointing that they couldn't get the 5C closer to the rumored $399 or $450 off-contract prices... $549 is very steep for 1-year old technology wrapped in a $2 plastic case. I'd sell my AAPL stock today (if I had any left) before Wall Street crunches their numbers.
- r00fus 13y ago
  If you knew anything about trading in the first place, you'd know that you can always sell short.
  - siliconviking 13y ago
    My statement implies a non-positive outlook for AAPL. Short selling implies a negative outlook. See the difference? PS: No need to lecture me on basic finance, unless you've also been on the management team of a $16bn equity fund.
ececconi 13y ago
The USA already has all 10 of my fingerprints. When I was going through the process of becoming a permanent resident, I had to scan it into a machine. Every time I come back into the USA after coming back from a trip outside the country, I have to scan multiple of my prints.
- jordanthoms 13y ago
  Same boat here. Not exactly keen to start using them for authentication now!
- UnoriginalGuy 13y ago
  Everyone who enters the US has to get their fingerprints scanned (even tourists), it has been that way for many many years.
  - jarek 13y ago
    This is not completely accurate. At the very least, Canadians entering at land crossings are not scanned.
    - ececconi 13y ago
      Through airports it's always happened to me. Through the Canadian border at Niagara Falls it didn't.
  - guelo 13y ago
    Since 9/11.
  - fudged71 13y ago
    I just flew into the US from Canada and have never had my fingerprints scanned.
    - drill_sarge 13y ago
      Fingerprints get scanned when you get a passport here. Maybe they already knew and no need for additional scanning
techaddict009 13y ago
Is 5C inspired by Nokia Lumia ? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=560515223996127&set=a.109142489133405.4548.100686616645659&type=1&ref=nf https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=560515223996127&set=... (Nokia Fanpage)
- rjd 13y ago
  Or you could reverse the question and ask if the Lumia is inspired by a decade of Apple doing colourful iPod ranges...
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    Yeah, but Nokia did it with phones first, so Apple should respect that. The same way Apple claims all sorts of things were unique and patentable because they did them on a phone touchscreen and not a PDA touchscreen (which is so TOTALLY different).
    - rjd 13y ago
      Apple has been doing colorful consumer devices for over a decade... iMacs come to mind... they do the modus operandi and they are suddenly copy someone? you have some serious tunnel vision.
      - JohnTHaller 13y ago
        You missed the obvious sarcasm in the post. Apple did colorful things before Nokia's phones, but Nokia did multi-colored phones before Apple did. And, using Apple's logic that just because it's a phone makes it different (see multiple iPhone patents that folks like Palm and Microsoft did first on PDAs and similar), that means Nokia was new and innovative and Apple copied.
pkrumins 13y ago
disappointing!
mncolinlee 13y ago
Still no NFC. It's an underrated technology for pairing devices. Real investments and more hardware would follow if Apple jumped in the pool with everyone else.
- shurcooL 13y ago
  Chicken and egg.
  - mncolinlee 13y ago
    Does that make Apple the chicken in this metaphor?
    - evan_ 13y ago
      Yes- the chicken produces the egg
      - huwr 13y ago
        But the trouble is we'll need a egg to get a chicken.
- williwu 13y ago
  Bluetooth 4.0 and iBeacon is Apple's plan right now
mmanfrin 13y ago
In most previous Apple iterations, when they release a cheaper/multi-colored version of a flagship product, they also release a new (more premium) product line. This time they didn't. This is disappointing to Americans (hence the drop in share price) but also shows Tim's direction: China. His expertise in the company under Jobs was in supply chains and Asia, and now he is orienting (pun not intended) the company towards Eastern markets. Disappointing shortsighted shareholders, but in my opinion an absolutely perfect time to buy AAPL: they have huge cash reserves and pushing in to the massive Eastern market with the Gold iPhone will only pad further those cash reserves that that low P/E.
- twistedpair 13y ago
  "Gold" has much more of an appeal to many Asian populations than the US given that Asia has been the cause of exploding actual gold demand. In the US I know few people with garish gold widgets. However, in Asia where the Apple product is a status symbol, the gold iPhone 5S (not the lump of coal 5C) will certainly bolster the image of the premium version.
  - therandomguy 13y ago
    As much as Asia loves gold they HATE fake gold.
    - Dylan16807 13y ago
      Which one is the iphone? It would certainly be easy to have some real gold on it.
      - Alterlife 13y ago
        Speaking as an Indian, "real gold" is the kind you can take to a jewelry shop and sell if things get rough... or exchange for other "real gold". ie: 22 Karat.
        Dylan16807 13y ago
onedev 13y ago
Wow not a single intelligent comment in this post. What is it about Apple announcements that lowers everyone's ability to have a decent conversation about it without being snarky or overly eager? All I see is multiple reddit-level circlejerk comments like "Lol NSA will have fingerprints now" or "Wow fingerprint reader AND NSA chip, look at me I'm so witty, I made an NSA joke". Seriously, are we not going to have a conversation about what the fingerprint reader means for the enterprise crowd? Or what effect the lower end iPhone 5C will have on the bottom end of the phone market currently being dominated by cheap and often shitty Android phones? Or even anything about the improvements made to the camera or processors? Really? No intelligent conversation is going to go on here? Ok I guess I'll see myself out then...this was supposed to be my last safe haven for intelligent discourse about this.
edwyn 13y ago
It seems that the 5S and the 5C support China Mobile's LTE bands. Is that what will be announced tomorrow at the Apple event in China? http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/ http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/
- garretruh 13y ago
  The China event was only "tomorrow" so far as Beijing is 15 hours ahead of California. It was just a live stream of the announcement IIRC.
dhughes 13y ago
>According to Apple, half of users don’t set up a passcode on their device. How could they know that?
- bryne 13y ago
  Elementary data collection?
- casesandberg 13y ago
  Cook said: "In our test cases, half of users don’t set up a passcode on their device."
  - dhughes 13y ago
    Ah, didn't see the "test cases" part.
downandout 13y ago
I don't have a problem with the fingerprint scanner, since people can choose to use it or not. The larger problem I see for the 5S is a marketing one: while the A7 processor and internal redesign are significant technical achievements, consumers won't understand that or care. They know that their existing iPhone 5's are relatively fast, and that will be enough for most people. They needed to add features - not necessarily speed - for this phone to have the kind of success that its predecessors have achieved.
- diminoten 13y ago
  This phone takes way better pictures and has a longer battery life. There, features people care about.
  - UnoriginalGuy 13y ago
    But it doesn't have better battery life. It has very similar battery life to the last one according to Apple's own figures.
    - diminoten 13y ago
      It says it has a better battery life, I'm just going by the submission.
- chaz 13y ago
  The new colors are definitely a feature. One of the "problems" with the 4S was that there was no externally distinguishing feature that you had the latest and the greatest. They fixed that this time around.
- rm999 13y ago
  This is typical of the previous 's' updates: 3gs, 4s. Both offered a better camera and faster speed, and not much else. The 4s had siri, which ended up being mostly just a gimmick IMO.
  - 13y ago
VeejayRampay 13y ago
"According to Apple, the processor is more than twice as fast as the A6, with a 40x CPU performance bump. Graphics are said to be 56x faster." What does that even mean? I'm getting tired of claims like these. They're obviously non-sensical and groundless and they should be publicly shamed for it. But that'll never happen I guess.
- bobbles 13y ago
  2x as fast as the A6 for CPU and GPU. the 40x CPU and 56x GPU numbers are referencing the 5S against the original iPhone (as a 'look how far we've come' retrospective)
  - VeejayRampay 13y ago
    Do they mention the baseline being the iPhone 1 in the article? Anyway, thanks for the explanation.
    - samstave 13y ago
      They show it in that one graph. http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/img_8908.jpg?w=1920 http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/img_8908... http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/img_8907.jpg?w=1920 http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/img_8907...
m_mueller 13y ago
I'd like to know whether they're going to use the fingerprint sensor for unlocking the keychain as well. If yes, we could also take advantage of it in app development, no?
- oleganza 13y ago
  It's just like with passcode: you app never has "passcode API", but your keychain items are unlocked when user enters passcode according to the policy you have chosen. Why it should be different when fingerprint is used instead of a passcode?
lars512 13y ago
The M7 chip's an interesting nod to quantified self'ers. I'm certainly sick of the battery drain caused by running Moves, or one of the many Google Latitude clients, over time.
marcuspovey 13y ago
Yeah, 'cos I really want a convenient way to send my fingerprints to the government.
jpinkerton88 13y ago
pretty stoked on fingerprint for apple id
uses 13y ago
At some point you'll be able to pick up your friend's phone or tablet, touch it, and without entering usernames, emails, or passwords, have access to all your "stuff", including the same homescreen / desktop as your own phone / laptop. There will be open source, open standard, secure authentication and identity systems chained together, kind of like an evolution of Persona or OpenID, and when you view a website on your friend's phone, it will recognize you immediately.
- r00fus 13y ago
  I was with you until you mentioned it would be OSS with trust webs like Persona… not that I wouldn't prefer it, but even Google is more about proprietary, cloud-based these days.
- Wingman4l7 13y ago
  A setup like that relies on massive trust in cloud computing services and sanctity of the operating system, software, and hardware which I -- and probably many other curmudgeonly tech-savvy people like me -- are unwilling to give.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Tichy 13y ago
Can't believe they didn't make bigger screens. iPhones seem so tiny these days. Also, just 33 votes on HN atm - made me realize that probasbly people are already using HN votes as input for their stock trading aslgorithms :-)
- dave1619 13y ago
  I agree that Apple is missing out by only making 4" screens on the iPhone 5s/5c. If they really want to keep the 4" screen, they need to add another phone with a bigger screen, ie., 4.7" screen.
- sytelus 13y ago
  I disagree. The iPhone 4 had (and still has) the perfect dimension of any phones for holding in to adult average human hand and carrying it around in average sized pant pockets or strapping it on arms while jogging/hiking. The iPhone 5 ruined it a bit in trying to copy competition and not knowing that it actually had it better. I see people using large android brick sized phones all the time uncomfortably carrying it around in their relatively tiny hands and unable to hold anything else even when they are not using it because it's too big to put in pocket. I know Jobs had obsessed over iPhone dimensions a lot and arrived at the best compromise for a device you can actually live with without being felt lugging it around.
  - acchow 13y ago
    HTC One is my daily carry. I miss the iPhone 4's smaller size... My hands always hurt from stretching to use the "back" button.
  - Tichy 13y ago
    By that logic, Apple should have never published the iPad because it is too big to hold in a human hand. Carrying bigger phones in a pocket isn't really an issue either.
- NamTaf 13y ago
  I can't believe anyone wants a bigger screen. It's a phone, not a computer. I use it to quickly check email/web pages on the go, not write an essay. A bigger screen just means it ties up more room in my pocket.
Vitaly 13y ago
So, WhereTF is my Thunderbolt Display update? 726 days since the last update according to http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/. We just moved to an new office in august, and been waiting with buying displays hoping they'll be updated to the new formfactor of iMacs. too bad ... ;( really disappointed.
- emp_ 13y ago
  No shit. New iMac with thinner display for many months now, yet no new monitor. Considering the 27HM from Dell.
gavinlynch 13y ago
I knew this would immediately devolve into a shit show.
marcamillion 13y ago
How much weight does the claim that the Touch ID not being stored on Apple's servers really matter? They claim it is stored on the A7 chip itself. Is that secure enough for us to believe that the NSA can't get access to it? I am genuinely asking about the security implications. If all the fingerprints were on iCloud, then all the Feds have to do is force Apple to give them access to their servers. Having the fingerprint pushed down to each individual device, that seems to be more secure. But am I just being naive or is that truly more secure?
- Zoepfli 13y ago
  IMHO, Apple's claim doesn't matter at all. If the NSA wants to get inside your iPhone and add some code, it will find some way to do so - either with the help of Apple, through a backdoor or a recent vulnerability. And once it's inside, the NSA is free to install a code snippet that uploads your fingerprint directly to their server.
10dpd 13y ago
The Touch ID is really exciting for accessibility as it enables visually impaired users to access their phone without having to fiddle around with a lock screen, which may reveal their password to those around them. http://www.accessibleresources.com/2013/09/10/apple-announces-new-iphone5c-and-iphone5s-touch-id-fingerprint-sensor/ http://www.accessibleresources.com/2013/09/10/apple-announce...
- Wingman4l7 13y ago
  I assumed that visually impaired users eschewed touchscreen phones altogether for accessibility issues.
evonek 13y ago
yes http://evona.pl http://evona.pl
hardwaresofton 13y ago
Anyone see the "desktop class" bullet point?
shaaaaawn 13y ago
As security enthusiasts, rather than being paranoid about fingerprint scanners shouldn't we rejoice the possibility of two factor authentication (passcode + finger) it can bring to smartphones?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
vankap 13y ago
If I'm using my fingerprint to protect something, it must be way more valuable than the fingerprint itself. It's like using a key made of gold to protect a box full of rocks.
realrocker 13y ago
Why would anyone willingly submit to daily bio-metric validation of one's data is beyond me.
shire 13y ago
This is fantastic, breakthrough, I've long waited fingerprint scanning technology. This could definitely decrease cybercriminals.
goshx 13y ago
Best iPhone commercial I have seen so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIWez9HAbA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIWez9HAbA
Bud 13y ago
Hey, not to break up the bash-the-NSA discussion, which is legit and badly needed, but did anyone notice just how bad the fact-checking is in this article? It's terrible. Error 1: article says the A7 is a "40x CPU performance bump". Wrong; it's 40x over the original iPhone, not over the A6. Error 2: article says graphics are "56x faster". Same error. Error 3: article claims the M7 is a motion sensor; it's not. It's a chip which handles data from the various sensors. Error 4: next paragraph after the first M7 paragraph finally gets it right. Bad editing. Error 5: Apple didn't skirt the megapixel count for the new sensor as claimed. The new sensor has the same MP count, as was stated. Error 6: article mentions a "10-shot burst mode". Wrong again. The burst mode is 10 frames per second, but is not limited to any specific number of frames. Just an incredibly bad job, here.
- hayksaakian 13y ago
  Welcome to techcrunch where the titles are clickbait and the facts don't matter
- eksith 13y ago
  Good catches. This is another classic case of being first (or at least one of the first) out the gate is more important than the rest of the race. They just want to get the traffic up to speed for ad-views before making sure the story is correct.
- ihuman 13y ago
  To be fair, error 1 and 2 came from Apple during the press conference. Edit: I am wrong, ignore this.
  - vvhn 13y ago
    was that a press conference after the event because in the event they were clearly shown (and mentioned) to be over the original iPhone with the added claim that half of the total improvement so far is over the iPhone 5 ( a very roundabout way of saying the performance has doubled as compared to the previous iPhone)
- bobbles 13y ago
bugsbunny4341 13y ago
Is it just me or is it something we don't expect from Apple? http://imgur.com/KYgtVDb http://imgur.com/KYgtVDb
- ulyssesgrant 13y ago
  Exactly right. Something like this seems so easy for them to catch too, I wonder why/how it made it through. Maybe the case was a last-minute addition

286 points by velodrome 13y ago

ffrryuu 13y ago

Have they added color profile support yet?

ihuman 13y ago
What do you mean by color profile? Something like f.lux, where it changes the color of the screen?
- Samuel_Michon 13y ago
  I think he meant ColorSync[1] or ICC support for color management. An image that uses a color space other than sRGB (like Adobe RGB or CMYK) will look different on iOS than it does on OS X. Apparently, iOS 4 did add ICC support in CoreGraphics for apps to use [2] but it seems to me that Apple’s apps don’t take advantage of it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorsync http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorsync [2] https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/releasenotes/General/WhatsNewIniOS/Articles/iPhoneOS4.html https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/releasenotes/General...
  - ffrryuu 13y ago
    Yeah, I want to calibrate ios screens. Using something like the i1 display pro. It made a huge difference on my computer monitors. I want a system wide color profile support, like what we have in Windows or OSX... Not a per app support.
    - Samuel_Michon 13y ago
      I hear you. I too use the i1 display pro and I would love to review designs on my iPad without having to convert the files to sRGB first.
    - me2i81 13y ago
      Calibrating the screen and supporting embedded profiles in images are two different things. It would be nice if images with embedded profiles rendered correctly to the screen, e.g. with Safari on iPhone, using a canned profile that assumes that Apple has correctly profiled the mean iPhone display and that the variance between particular screens isn't too high. From what I can tell the iPhone doesn't do color management at all and the display resembles sRGB enough to call it good enough for a consumer device. On the other hand I'd assume that the number of people who would want to use an external colorimeter and make a profile for their particular iPhone was not a market big enough for anyone (let alone Apple) to bother with, and since the iPhone has no mechanism to actually use that profile, it's pointless except for the purpose of converting images to iPhone in a desktop app, but in that case why would you care about your particular iPhone?
- coob 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorSync http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorSync

alxbrun 13y ago

When I see Apple putting forward as a key feature the number of bits in their processor in a general public announcement... I'm really feeling the "new" product is not really new. In the past Apple was always laughing at the PC ads boasting processor speed and memory capacity.

wmf 13y ago
At least it's running in 64-bit mode, unlike the G5 when it was announced.
xutopia 13y ago
That did seem rather bizarre to me as well.
seiji 13y ago
In the past Apple was always laughing at the PC ads boasting processor speed and memory capacity. The last occurrence of that would have been almost ten years ago. They've always highlighted their technical superiority in presentations.
davidcollantes 13y ago
The leaks contribute to take away some of the awe. Yet, A7, M7, iOS 7, new camera, new flash, Touch ID. It looks new to me.
- alxbrun 13y ago
  My "is it new?" test works this way: how would I explain what's new to my father (who is 74 years old and knows not much about tech). A7, M7, iOS 7, better camera and flash: not much to say. Touch ID OK that's new, but that's not much.
  - davidcollantes 13y ago
    I am sure you can find a way to explain, it is not that hard. Touch ID is a lot! No more password entering on iTunes. A godsend for someone who has a 26 characters passphrase like me.

ihuman 13y ago

Instead of using the iPhone 5 as the free option, they are discontinuing it and using the 4S as the free one.

sdoowpilihp 13y ago
I would surmise that is likely due to the iPhone 5C and iPhone 5 having very similar specs. A free iPhone 5 would cannibalize the 5C sales. Why pay 100 dollars for a color case? Then again, a number of people paid the "black tax" for their macbook a number of years back.
- rdl 13y ago
  I wonder what this will do to the resale value of iPhone 5 64G Verizon. I'd upgrade from 5 -> 5S if it net cost were <$300, but it appears Priceonomics says it is $320-$450, and a new iPhone 5S 64G is $849.
  - Jtsummers 13y ago
    Verizon iPhone 5 64GB black is listed as $370 on NextWorth so that's a maybe. I've had luck in past years of reducing my upgrade costs to under $100, but AT&T is being less generous on the contract period this time around (or it didn't line up as well as in the past).
    - rdl 13y ago
      Yeah, I'll probably just list my 5 "high" on Amazon, and buy a 5S IFF it sells, or just pay the Apple tax for the year. I'm not sure how Verizon works with upgrades when you have multiple devices on an account (phone, 3 iPads, 2 Mifi); could I just upgrade one of the iPads I brought to an iPhone 5S and shuffle things around?
      - Jtsummers 13y ago
        I am not the person to ask about Verizon. I'm with AT&T because of my unlimited data plan and their excellent coverage in this area. That said, I'm considering something similar for upgrading to the 5S, NextWorth was just a place to look at prices to gauge what I should try and sell it for. I also only have the one data plan on AT&T, never got one for my iPad (wifi only).

Heliosmaster 13y ago

About the ID fingerprints? Am I the only one so in constant fear and doubt that thinks this would be a great way of bulk collecting the fingerprints of ANYONE?

ihuman 13y ago
They say that applications don't have access to it and it is never uploaded online, but until the device is out there is no way to verify it.
- charlescearl 13y ago
  Open source the M7 and then we'll trust them. Where's the backdoor at?
- hershel 13y ago
  Even after the device is out it would be very hard(if not impossible) to verify it doesn't send fingerprint or hash of fingerprint online. There's plenty of places they can hide this.
  - danabramov 13y ago
    Don't you think this would be a huge scandal, if it was revealed? Considering they specifically say it is not uploaded? Just saying. Why would they take such a risk?
    - sdoowpilihp 13y ago
      At the very least, It would open them up to a massive class action lawsuit. The repercussions would likely run much deeper that though.
      - GVIrish 13y ago
        The government has given legal immunity to telecoms that collaborated with NSA spying in the past, I'm sure they'd extend that immunity to Apple if need be.

United857 13y ago

Two biggest new things for developers: * OpenGL ES 3.0 support (things like true HDR rendering, etc. will finally be possible) * 64-bit support. For most app developers, this will just be a recompile. The tricky part is that any closed-source 3rd party SDKs/libraries/frameworks used will also have to be rebuilt first by their authors.

cliveowen 13y ago
More importantly, what are they talking about when they say 64-bit? The architecture uses 64-bit addresses? The processor uses 64-bit registers? What are the main advantages to current CPUs?
- klodolph 13y ago
  "64-bit processor" almost universally refers to using a 64-bit word size: 64 bits of virtual memory space (even if only some of it is mappable) and 64-bit ALUs. This was well covered when desktops switched, but the main advantages are that certain operations are faster (e.g. RSA) and the extra address space lets you use mmap() and the page cache for everything, instead of writing your own stupid cache. Disadvantages are that 64-bit code consumes more memory. There are ways around this.
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    I'm not sure why AMD64 didn't specify a 32-bit memory model mode while providing 64-bit registers and the rest of the improvements. Like X32 for Linux. Then if you're not using all that RAM, you can benefit from smaller pointers and so on while still having 64-bit words.
- secalex 13y ago
  Almost certainly this means they are supporting ARMv8: http://www.arm.com/files/downloads/ARMv8_Architecture.pdf http://www.arm.com/files/downloads/ARMv8_Architecture.pdf From the deck: -32bit RISC Instructions -64bit GP registers -64bit operands -64bit pointers

josteink 13y ago

I wonder how the people claiming plastic in those Android-phones feels "cheap" is going to react to this.

kaolinite 13y ago
The plastic they're using (hard-coated polycarbonate) is, I believe, the same plastic used on many of the Nokia Lumia phones which a lot of people say feel much higher quality than other, regular plastic phones. That said, the 5C is the cheaper option and it isn't going to feel as good as the aluminium of the 5S. I don't however think it will be anywhere near as cheap-feeling as other phones (e.g. the Samsung Galaxy S4 which has been described as feeling "greasy").
- janlukacs 13y ago
  and that's why Nokia posted this: https://twitter.com/nokia_uk/status/377483408043036672/photo/1 https://twitter.com/nokia_uk/status/377483408043036672/photo...
  - siglesias 13y ago
    Ads of multicolored devices featuring content that matches the enclosure? Who would've thunk it? http://cl.ly/image/1U3i2F2v2r43 http://cl.ly/image/1U3i2F2v2r43
    - janlukacs 13y ago
      I actually played with a 620 for a day or two. Once you will hold them both in your hand it will make sense.
    - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
      Those are all just staged for ads (unless you think you can't listen to the Beatles Red Album on a blue nano and vice versa) except for the latest one, which came out after the Nokia devices. I'm sure someone did it before (I seem to recall IE5 letting you change the interface to match the early iMac colours) but your comment (and a quick glance at the linked image) is misleading as it stands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_Mac#Internet_Explorer_5_for_Mac_distinguishing_features http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_Mac#Inter...

climatewarrior2 13y ago

The NSA now will have a database of everybody's fingerprints!! Great :D

sdoowpilihp 13y ago
First of all, this is not a constructive comment. Second, they explicitly said that the fingerprint never leaves the phone (and believe me, people will be looking to verify. It would be a huge boon to a persons career to be the person that caught apple in that lie).
- aw3c2 13y ago
  How are you going to check? iOS is closed-source. You cannot monitor the traffic 24/7 over the whole lifetime of the device. Maybe the fingerprint delivery can be ordered remotely.
  - awestley 13y ago
    It's a phone... If you are concerned that your fingerprints MIGHT be uploaded you need to consider just not using a smartphone. AKA "a voluntary spy device".
    - mikeash 13y ago
      It's quite odd. Here's a device that can listen to everything you say all day long, that can read all of your e-mail, take pictures of you and your surroundings, sniff all of your passwords, etc. etc. etc., but people are freaking out because it might be stealing your fingerprints, which you leave thousands of on various public surfaces every day anyway? I just don't get it.
      - Dirlewanger 13y ago
        Typical initial outrage at something new. The phone already logs your every move yet people have already forgotten about it and clearly don't care.

knodi 13y ago

This is what I don't like about apple the 5s $199 version has 16GB and the 5c $199 version has 32GB. They should have at-lease giving us 24GB for 5s $199. Apple being apple trying to keep margins high. The new colors kind of suck but great for high school girls.

allsystemsgo 13y ago
It took quite some time for me to fill up the 16GB. I'm more of a power user now, so I'll be upgrading to the 32GB but, for most 16GB is plenty.
- pdubbs 13y ago
  I was starting to fill mine up, but I started using iTunes Match and automatic photo uploads to Dropbox and that freed up a good amount of space.
- jsight 13y ago
  In my experience, power users need less storage than non-power users. How many novices have you seen with 16GB nearly full of photos and videos?
- mratzloff 13y ago
  My music alone fills up my 64 GB 4S. I am waiting for the 128 GB.
  - randomdata 13y ago
    On the other hand, my 4S has a persistent mobile data connection, so storing music locally is of no great benefit to me. I guess all we can conclude is that 16GB can be huge, or tiny, depending on how you want to use your device.
    - julsonl 13y ago
      Having local storage is good for services like Spotify though, especially for those long road trips where the signal can be a bit spotty.

jetru 13y ago

No one mentioned that stealing an iPhone is much more difficult now. Thieves need to be careful not to touch the sensor!

mikeash 13y ago
Or they take your thumb as well as your phone.

amenod 13y ago

Finally! Can't wait for jailbreaks for 4S and 5 to come out now... :)

chrisgd 13y ago

I am still waiting for the same processor and camera in a smaller size with a longer battery life.

wmf 13y ago
The iPhone is already "miniature" by Android standards.
- chrisgd 13y ago
  Comment really applies to any phone's next generation.

janlukacs 13y ago

Wait till you see the iPhone 6 :)

rdl 13y ago

I'm sad it seems most likely the 5S will be fingerprint OR pin/passphrase to unlock. I can imagine situations at borders or in interactions with police where compelling a fingerprint swipe is physically easier than compelling a passphrase entry, and I think it is also legally easier to compel later. The ideal would be a 4-8 digit numeric PIN with strong "10 tries and it dies" plus fingerprint, and as a backup, a full length desktop-style passphrase (iCloud passphrase). And maybe some kind of "only works on pre-authorized devices" enrollment system requiring the passphrase to generate local keys, too.

danabramov 13y ago
Tim Carmody's tweet suggests you can still use the numeric code: https://twitter.com/tcarmody/status/377495998727483392 https://twitter.com/tcarmody/status/377495998727483392
- rdl 13y ago
  That's even worse. I want to be able to set, at my option: 1) PIN-only 2) FPR + PIN (where you must use iCloud to get in if your FPR doesn't read) 3) for morons, FPR only. I currently use a much stronger than 4 digit numeric PIN, but it is honestly a pain. If I could set both the FPR and PIN as required to get in, I could use a shorter PIN. If I'm allowed to bypass the FPR entirely, the PIN has to remain as strong as it is now. (What I'd also like is something better than hardcoded timeouts for requiring the PIN. Like "require FPR every single time you unlock, require PIN+FPR if it has been <30 minutes or <120 minutes but no movement on accelerometer OR connected in my car, require FPR+icloud passphrase otherwise". Fully configurable by the user.)
  - gareim 13y ago
    His tweet doesn't confirm or reject your #2 (just that PIN is available as an option), so just relax and wait to see. I mean, I doubt they'd implement FDR + PIN like you want (cause it seems a minority wish?), but it's still possible.
  - drivers99 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rodedwards 13y ago

Better photos, TouchID, snappier performance -- a traditional incremental Apple upgrade befitting the "S" moniker. I've long been wondering when/if Apple would take on NFC and things like payments more aggressively. I get the feeling that they're going to skip NFC entirely, and that TouchID is going to be a large part of processing transactions without the need for any physical device interaction (swipe/tap/bump). Right now I've got that hazy tip-of-iceberg feeling that Apple is probably in the early phases of executing some grand vision that I can't yet see the entirety of. And that's why Apple continues to be the leading consumer device co: who else out there has "vision?" Google is the closest, but IMHO Android has always felt reactionary, not visionary.

nutate 13y ago
The new PayPal Beacon works with bluetooth LE... NFC seems like a step back from that.
- rodedwards 13y ago
  Hmm - I'm not familiar with Beacon, but will take a look. In my mind, NFC has always sort of felt like a clunky way of imposing a physical constraint on what should be a purely electronic transaction.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    NFC didn’t really break through in the market. Not yet, not ever, I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure that Apple is betting on Bluetooth LE, something their devices already have. I could see that work out.
    - alexcroox 13y ago
      Don't you wonder that the reason it didn't break the market was because iPhones never shipped with it. Same as QR codes, no default app to use them = poor adoption of the technology.
- blisterpeanuts 13y ago

swamp40 13y ago

I was really hoping for NFC support - sigh. I do love the fingerprint sensor and the intelligent auto-focusing features, though. Blurry smartphone pictures are so ubiquitous these days.

general_failure 13y ago
there's airdrop instead of nfc
- ja27 13y ago
  And Bluetooth 4.0 (low energy). I doubt Apple will ever do NFC.
  - swamp40 13y ago
    Yes, either of those technologies would work as well. I'm still betting it will show up in the iWatch, though. There is just so much NFC-enabled Point-Of-Sale hardware already out there.
bratsche 13y ago
Why does everyone keep going on about NFC? It's been on Android for years and it's never been used in any meaningful way. I don't see Apple introducing some new hardware component just for the sake of adding it. They'll introduce something when they have a really solid use for it, which is something that Google seems to have never really had with NFC.
- hrktb 13y ago
  At one point of the keynote NTT Docomo was specially mentionned. They pioneered mobile NFC in Japan, where it's actually useful, as in you can forget your wallet at home and you might not notice as long as you have your phone. They introduced emoji almost only for the japanese market at first, they could have done the same for NFC as well, that would have been great.
- swamp40 13y ago

pilif 13y ago

Now that we have to consider the iPhones to be backdoored by the NSA, I wonder whether I really want to give them my fingerprint together with the rest of my data. I'm also not so sure whether a fingerprint can't still be easily faked (like it was possible on that Mythbusters episode for example). Personally, I think I'd rather stay with my passcode. Did you btw know that you can turn off "simple passcode" and then use a purely numeric longer passcode? In that case the iPhone will still show the big easy-to-hit numeric keyboard allowing you to type in the arbitrary length numeric code. Yes. It's not as safe as a long alphanumeric password, but this gets annoying SO quickly, I'd rather type in my 8 digits.

cwilson 13y ago
Apple specifically stated that your fingerprint is stored and encrypted only on the A7 chip, and not iCloud or anywhere else. It's mentioned in the video as well: http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch
- lfuller 13y ago
  I believe that pilif's issue is with potential undisclosed storage of the fingerprint data on Apple's servers.
- jontas 13y ago
  I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, but if in fact the NSA required copies of all fingerprints, I doubt Apple would be allowed to publicize it.
  - danabramov 13y ago
    But would they still go about implementing it? I mean, it sounds crazy from a business perspective.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

drivebyacct2 13y ago

Why the fuck do people link to TechCrunch? Seriously, pick any other non-Gawker outlet and it's going to be better and higher quality. Just fucking link the Verge and get over it.

Pxtl 13y ago

I'm still weirded out by the idea that Apple has finally split the iPhone line into "premium" and "value" streams. It just seems so... un-Apple. The whole "last-year's-model" discount was a bit of a kludge, but still Apple stood out from the rest of the industry with such a simple product line - device, biannual release, size, that's it.

rayiner 13y ago
Apple has had premium and value lines before. Indeed, during the heyday of the Macbook, it was split into a premium aluminum and a cheaper polycarbonate model.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  Yes, obviously the PC/Laptop side of the business has always had this kind of differentiation (also the pure-Mp3 player business), but the iOS stuff has avoided this since the inception of the iPhone. The iPad, iPod, and iPhone were just "size only". Now that Jobs is gone and competition has heated up, we're seeing Apple back away from that with the iPad mini and the 5s. It feels like a big shift for Apple.
  - danabramov 13y ago
    >Now that Jobs is gone Seriously, what does this have to do with the point you're making?
    - ekanes 13y ago
      Jobs was famous for eliminating SKUs and simplifying.
      - danabramov 13y ago
        Then how about that? >But Apple executives, including Mr. Jobs, were seriously considering selling a less-expensive but similar phone as early as 2009, according to former executives involved in the plan. Then, the manufacturing teams were most opposed to it. >Their concerns, which I previously reported on in the Wall Street Journal, were about manufacturing complexity: how could Apple build so many models with so many different components? Apple’s relatively simple supply chain had always been a big competitive advantage. Having relatively few products allowed it to focus, buy parts at scale and keep things secret. http://jessicalessin.com/2013/09/10/what-really-held-up-the-cheap-iphone-for-years/ http://jessicalessin.com/2013/09/10/what-really-held-up-the-... What I want to say is, none of us, I suppose, were in the man's head, or worked at Cupertino. We can only speculate why there is a single iPhone/iPad. (And as you can read from the article, it may be due to operations and not because Jobs was so much about “simplicity“.) Saying “Now that Steve is dead” contributes nothing to discussion unless you work at Apple and really know what you're talking about. (In which case your comments are very valuable.)

wavesounds 13y ago

Edit: Read "on-contract" as "no-contract" and almost threw a party, thanks for pointing out my mistake guys

awestley 13y ago
You must have missed the word "starting" ;)
- iaskwhy 13y ago
  Or "on-contract"?
  - wavesounds 13y ago
    Ah damn dyslexia kicking in, totally read that as "no-contract" thanks
abraham 13y ago
"on-contract" vs "without a contract"

ginko 13y ago

Aren't swipe sensors considered more secure than press-on ones? There's all kinds of very simple recipes out there to trick those. A swipe sensor would have needed less space to boot.

gfodor 13y ago
Press-on sensor is obvious because it mimics the current home button perfectly.

ffrryuu 13y ago

Fingerprint sensor + NSA chip? Wow, that'd get banned in multiple countries fast. Mark my words.

thomaslutz 13y ago
Paranoid much?

meerita 13y ago

I visualize this: husband is sleeping deeply, wife picks up the phone and taps the home button while he's sleeping and unlocks the phone. Release the kraken.

themstheones 13y ago
If he doesn't have anything to hide from his wife then he has nothing to worry about.
- shire 13y ago
  I agree trust and honesty is part of a healthy relationship.
- Wingman4l7 13y ago
  So this argument is complete crap when it comes to governments but totally okay when it comes to spouses? How about a series of emails joking & griping about your wife's habits to your best friend? Completely harmless but not exactly the kind of thing that you'd want them reading. Our digital selves trail back in time farther and farther these days; would you want your wife reading emails between you and an ex from before you met her?
- AYBABTME 13y ago
  There's a deeply nested thread, right above, of people arguing against that idea. You just need to replace 'wife' with 'NSA'. I just point it out because I find it's funny.
kami8845 13y ago
You don't think the wife would've seen the husband enter his passcode in front of her at least once?
tedunangst 13y ago
"Honey my battery is dead. Can I borrow your phone?"
nir 13y ago

nutate 13y ago

I've been thinking about getting a withings pulse or a misfit shine... now I'll wait to see what the 5S itself can do.

siliconviking 13y ago

Very disappointing that they couldn't get the 5C closer to the rumored $399 or $450 off-contract prices... $549 is very steep for 1-year old technology wrapped in a $2 plastic case. I'd sell my AAPL stock today (if I had any left) before Wall Street crunches their numbers.

r00fus 13y ago
If you knew anything about trading in the first place, you'd know that you can always sell short.
- siliconviking 13y ago
  My statement implies a non-positive outlook for AAPL. Short selling implies a negative outlook. See the difference? PS: No need to lecture me on basic finance, unless you've also been on the management team of a $16bn equity fund.

ececconi 13y ago

The USA already has all 10 of my fingerprints. When I was going through the process of becoming a permanent resident, I had to scan it into a machine. Every time I come back into the USA after coming back from a trip outside the country, I have to scan multiple of my prints.

jordanthoms 13y ago
Same boat here. Not exactly keen to start using them for authentication now!
UnoriginalGuy 13y ago
Everyone who enters the US has to get their fingerprints scanned (even tourists), it has been that way for many many years.
- jarek 13y ago
  This is not completely accurate. At the very least, Canadians entering at land crossings are not scanned.
  - ececconi 13y ago
    Through airports it's always happened to me. Through the Canadian border at Niagara Falls it didn't.
- guelo 13y ago
  Since 9/11.
- fudged71 13y ago
  I just flew into the US from Canada and have never had my fingerprints scanned.
  - drill_sarge 13y ago
    Fingerprints get scanned when you get a passport here. Maybe they already knew and no need for additional scanning

techaddict009 13y ago

Is 5C inspired by Nokia Lumia ? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=560515223996127&set=a.109142489133405.4548.100686616645659&type=1&ref=nf https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=560515223996127&set=... (Nokia Fanpage)

rjd 13y ago
Or you could reverse the question and ask if the Lumia is inspired by a decade of Apple doing colourful iPod ranges...
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  Yeah, but Nokia did it with phones first, so Apple should respect that. The same way Apple claims all sorts of things were unique and patentable because they did them on a phone touchscreen and not a PDA touchscreen (which is so TOTALLY different).
  - rjd 13y ago
    Apple has been doing colorful consumer devices for over a decade... iMacs come to mind... they do the modus operandi and they are suddenly copy someone? you have some serious tunnel vision.
    - JohnTHaller 13y ago
      You missed the obvious sarcasm in the post. Apple did colorful things before Nokia's phones, but Nokia did multi-colored phones before Apple did. And, using Apple's logic that just because it's a phone makes it different (see multiple iPhone patents that folks like Palm and Microsoft did first on PDAs and similar), that means Nokia was new and innovative and Apple copied.

pkrumins 13y ago

disappointing!

mncolinlee 13y ago

Still no NFC. It's an underrated technology for pairing devices. Real investments and more hardware would follow if Apple jumped in the pool with everyone else.

shurcooL 13y ago
Chicken and egg.
- mncolinlee 13y ago
  Does that make Apple the chicken in this metaphor?
  - evan_ 13y ago
    Yes- the chicken produces the egg
    - huwr 13y ago
      But the trouble is we'll need a egg to get a chicken.
williwu 13y ago
Bluetooth 4.0 and iBeacon is Apple's plan right now

mmanfrin 13y ago

In most previous Apple iterations, when they release a cheaper/multi-colored version of a flagship product, they also release a new (more premium) product line. This time they didn't. This is disappointing to Americans (hence the drop in share price) but also shows Tim's direction: China. His expertise in the company under Jobs was in supply chains and Asia, and now he is orienting (pun not intended) the company towards Eastern markets. Disappointing shortsighted shareholders, but in my opinion an absolutely perfect time to buy AAPL: they have huge cash reserves and pushing in to the massive Eastern market with the Gold iPhone will only pad further those cash reserves that that low P/E.

twistedpair 13y ago
"Gold" has much more of an appeal to many Asian populations than the US given that Asia has been the cause of exploding actual gold demand. In the US I know few people with garish gold widgets. However, in Asia where the Apple product is a status symbol, the gold iPhone 5S (not the lump of coal 5C) will certainly bolster the image of the premium version.
- therandomguy 13y ago
  As much as Asia loves gold they HATE fake gold.
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    Which one is the iphone? It would certainly be easy to have some real gold on it.
    - Alterlife 13y ago
      Speaking as an Indian, "real gold" is the kind you can take to a jewelry shop and sell if things get rough... or exchange for other "real gold". ie: 22 Karat.
      - Dylan16807 13y ago

onedev 13y ago

Wow not a single intelligent comment in this post. What is it about Apple announcements that lowers everyone's ability to have a decent conversation about it without being snarky or overly eager? All I see is multiple reddit-level circlejerk comments like "Lol NSA will have fingerprints now" or "Wow fingerprint reader AND NSA chip, look at me I'm so witty, I made an NSA joke". Seriously, are we not going to have a conversation about what the fingerprint reader means for the enterprise crowd? Or what effect the lower end iPhone 5C will have on the bottom end of the phone market currently being dominated by cheap and often shitty Android phones? Or even anything about the improvements made to the camera or processors? Really? No intelligent conversation is going to go on here? Ok I guess I'll see myself out then...this was supposed to be my last safe haven for intelligent discourse about this.

edwyn 13y ago

It seems that the 5S and the 5C support China Mobile's LTE bands. Is that what will be announced tomorrow at the Apple event in China? http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/ http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

garretruh 13y ago
The China event was only "tomorrow" so far as Beijing is 15 hours ahead of California. It was just a live stream of the announcement IIRC.

dhughes 13y ago

>According to Apple, half of users don’t set up a passcode on their device. How could they know that?

bryne 13y ago
Elementary data collection?
casesandberg 13y ago
Cook said: "In our test cases, half of users don’t set up a passcode on their device."
- dhughes 13y ago
  Ah, didn't see the "test cases" part.

downandout 13y ago

I don't have a problem with the fingerprint scanner, since people can choose to use it or not. The larger problem I see for the 5S is a marketing one: while the A7 processor and internal redesign are significant technical achievements, consumers won't understand that or care. They know that their existing iPhone 5's are relatively fast, and that will be enough for most people. They needed to add features - not necessarily speed - for this phone to have the kind of success that its predecessors have achieved.

diminoten 13y ago
This phone takes way better pictures and has a longer battery life. There, features people care about.
- UnoriginalGuy 13y ago
  But it doesn't have better battery life. It has very similar battery life to the last one according to Apple's own figures.
  - diminoten 13y ago
    It says it has a better battery life, I'm just going by the submission.
chaz 13y ago
The new colors are definitely a feature. One of the "problems" with the 4S was that there was no externally distinguishing feature that you had the latest and the greatest. They fixed that this time around.
rm999 13y ago
This is typical of the previous 's' updates: 3gs, 4s. Both offered a better camera and faster speed, and not much else. The 4s had siri, which ended up being mostly just a gimmick IMO.
- 13y ago

VeejayRampay 13y ago

"According to Apple, the processor is more than twice as fast as the A6, with a 40x CPU performance bump. Graphics are said to be 56x faster." What does that even mean? I'm getting tired of claims like these. They're obviously non-sensical and groundless and they should be publicly shamed for it. But that'll never happen I guess.

bobbles 13y ago
2x as fast as the A6 for CPU and GPU. the 40x CPU and 56x GPU numbers are referencing the 5S against the original iPhone (as a 'look how far we've come' retrospective)
- VeejayRampay 13y ago
  Do they mention the baseline being the iPhone 1 in the article? Anyway, thanks for the explanation.
  - samstave 13y ago
    They show it in that one graph. http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/img_8908.jpg?w=1920 http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/img_8908... http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/img_8907.jpg?w=1920 http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/img_8907...

m_mueller 13y ago

I'd like to know whether they're going to use the fingerprint sensor for unlocking the keychain as well. If yes, we could also take advantage of it in app development, no?

oleganza 13y ago
It's just like with passcode: you app never has "passcode API", but your keychain items are unlocked when user enters passcode according to the policy you have chosen. Why it should be different when fingerprint is used instead of a passcode?

lars512 13y ago

The M7 chip's an interesting nod to quantified self'ers. I'm certainly sick of the battery drain caused by running Moves, or one of the many Google Latitude clients, over time.

marcuspovey 13y ago

Yeah, 'cos I really want a convenient way to send my fingerprints to the government.

jpinkerton88 13y ago

pretty stoked on fingerprint for apple id

uses 13y ago

At some point you'll be able to pick up your friend's phone or tablet, touch it, and without entering usernames, emails, or passwords, have access to all your "stuff", including the same homescreen / desktop as your own phone / laptop. There will be open source, open standard, secure authentication and identity systems chained together, kind of like an evolution of Persona or OpenID, and when you view a website on your friend's phone, it will recognize you immediately.

r00fus 13y ago
I was with you until you mentioned it would be OSS with trust webs like Persona… not that I wouldn't prefer it, but even Google is more about proprietary, cloud-based these days.
Wingman4l7 13y ago
A setup like that relies on massive trust in cloud computing services and sanctity of the operating system, software, and hardware which I -- and probably many other curmudgeonly tech-savvy people like me -- are unwilling to give.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Tichy 13y ago

Can't believe they didn't make bigger screens. iPhones seem so tiny these days. Also, just 33 votes on HN atm - made me realize that probasbly people are already using HN votes as input for their stock trading aslgorithms :-)

dave1619 13y ago
I agree that Apple is missing out by only making 4" screens on the iPhone 5s/5c. If they really want to keep the 4" screen, they need to add another phone with a bigger screen, ie., 4.7" screen.
sytelus 13y ago
I disagree. The iPhone 4 had (and still has) the perfect dimension of any phones for holding in to adult average human hand and carrying it around in average sized pant pockets or strapping it on arms while jogging/hiking. The iPhone 5 ruined it a bit in trying to copy competition and not knowing that it actually had it better. I see people using large android brick sized phones all the time uncomfortably carrying it around in their relatively tiny hands and unable to hold anything else even when they are not using it because it's too big to put in pocket. I know Jobs had obsessed over iPhone dimensions a lot and arrived at the best compromise for a device you can actually live with without being felt lugging it around.
- acchow 13y ago
  HTC One is my daily carry. I miss the iPhone 4's smaller size... My hands always hurt from stretching to use the "back" button.
- Tichy 13y ago
  By that logic, Apple should have never published the iPad because it is too big to hold in a human hand. Carrying bigger phones in a pocket isn't really an issue either.
NamTaf 13y ago
I can't believe anyone wants a bigger screen. It's a phone, not a computer. I use it to quickly check email/web pages on the go, not write an essay. A bigger screen just means it ties up more room in my pocket.

Vitaly 13y ago

So, WhereTF is my Thunderbolt Display update? 726 days since the last update according to http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/. We just moved to an new office in august, and been waiting with buying displays hoping they'll be updated to the new formfactor of iMacs. too bad ... ;( really disappointed.

emp_ 13y ago
No shit. New iMac with thinner display for many months now, yet no new monitor. Considering the 27HM from Dell.

gavinlynch 13y ago

I knew this would immediately devolve into a shit show.

marcamillion 13y ago

How much weight does the claim that the Touch ID not being stored on Apple's servers really matter? They claim it is stored on the A7 chip itself. Is that secure enough for us to believe that the NSA can't get access to it? I am genuinely asking about the security implications. If all the fingerprints were on iCloud, then all the Feds have to do is force Apple to give them access to their servers. Having the fingerprint pushed down to each individual device, that seems to be more secure. But am I just being naive or is that truly more secure?

Zoepfli 13y ago
IMHO, Apple's claim doesn't matter at all. If the NSA wants to get inside your iPhone and add some code, it will find some way to do so - either with the help of Apple, through a backdoor or a recent vulnerability. And once it's inside, the NSA is free to install a code snippet that uploads your fingerprint directly to their server.

10dpd 13y ago

The Touch ID is really exciting for accessibility as it enables visually impaired users to access their phone without having to fiddle around with a lock screen, which may reveal their password to those around them. http://www.accessibleresources.com/2013/09/10/apple-announces-new-iphone5c-and-iphone5s-touch-id-fingerprint-sensor/ http://www.accessibleresources.com/2013/09/10/apple-announce...

Wingman4l7 13y ago
I assumed that visually impaired users eschewed touchscreen phones altogether for accessibility issues.

evonek 13y ago

yes http://evona.pl http://evona.pl

hardwaresofton 13y ago

Anyone see the "desktop class" bullet point?

shaaaaawn 13y ago

As security enthusiasts, rather than being paranoid about fingerprint scanners shouldn't we rejoice the possibility of two factor authentication (passcode + finger) it can bring to smartphones?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

vankap 13y ago

If I'm using my fingerprint to protect something, it must be way more valuable than the fingerprint itself. It's like using a key made of gold to protect a box full of rocks.

realrocker 13y ago

Why would anyone willingly submit to daily bio-metric validation of one's data is beyond me.

shire 13y ago

This is fantastic, breakthrough, I've long waited fingerprint scanning technology. This could definitely decrease cybercriminals.

goshx 13y ago

Best iPhone commercial I have seen so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIWez9HAbA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIWez9HAbA

Bud 13y ago

Hey, not to break up the bash-the-NSA discussion, which is legit and badly needed, but did anyone notice just how bad the fact-checking is in this article? It's terrible. Error 1: article says the A7 is a "40x CPU performance bump". Wrong; it's 40x over the original iPhone, not over the A6. Error 2: article says graphics are "56x faster". Same error. Error 3: article claims the M7 is a motion sensor; it's not. It's a chip which handles data from the various sensors. Error 4: next paragraph after the first M7 paragraph finally gets it right. Bad editing. Error 5: Apple didn't skirt the megapixel count for the new sensor as claimed. The new sensor has the same MP count, as was stated. Error 6: article mentions a "10-shot burst mode". Wrong again. The burst mode is 10 frames per second, but is not limited to any specific number of frames. Just an incredibly bad job, here.

hayksaakian 13y ago
Welcome to techcrunch where the titles are clickbait and the facts don't matter
eksith 13y ago
Good catches. This is another classic case of being first (or at least one of the first) out the gate is more important than the rest of the race. They just want to get the traffic up to speed for ad-views before making sure the story is correct.
ihuman 13y ago
To be fair, error 1 and 2 came from Apple during the press conference. Edit: I am wrong, ignore this.
- vvhn 13y ago
  was that a press conference after the event because in the event they were clearly shown (and mentioned) to be over the original iPhone with the added claim that half of the total improvement so far is over the iPhone 5 ( a very roundabout way of saying the performance has doubled as compared to the previous iPhone)
bobbles 13y ago

bugsbunny4341 13y ago

Is it just me or is it something we don't expect from Apple? http://imgur.com/KYgtVDb http://imgur.com/KYgtVDb

ulyssesgrant 13y ago
Exactly right. Something like this seems so easy for them to catch too, I wonder why/how it made it through. Maybe the case was a last-minute addition