48 ms·
Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport
- vasilipupkin 13y agoSnowden had me until he traveled to Russia with 4 laptops full of NSA secrets. I mean no matter how bad NSA is, Putin is 1000 times worse
- panacea 13y agoMaybe he's worse than the NSA for Russians, but he ain't doing anything to me. As a non-USAsian, the NSA and what they're doing Hoovering up everything they can about me sucks way more.
- vasilipupkin 13y agoI stand by what I said even after the downvote :) I don't like what NSA is doing and I applaud Snowden for exposing their activities. However, people like Putin is why we have to have the NSA in the first place
- markyc 13y ago"people like Putin is why we have to have the NSA in the first place" so the government propaganda does work :)
- vasilipupkin 13y agoI am not defending the NSA or claiming that we should not curtail or better monitor what they are doing. What I am saying is, being a freedom fighter and then seeking asylum in Russia which is the place that heavily curtails personal freedoms of all kinds is kind of ironic don't you think? especially in light of the fact that Snowden allegedly has these 4 laptops with him
- markyc 13y agobeing a freedom fighter and then seeking asylum in Russia which is the place that heavily curtails personal freedoms of all kinds is kind of ironic when the rest of the world bows to US threats and hands over official presidential planes for searching, there's not much choice is there? and yes, the whole situation is very ironic, if you your views on the world come from western media
- peterkelly 13y agoWhere would you seek refuge then, assuming you wanted to remain alive for > 1 week?
- panacea 13y agoDo you really stand behind the 1000% hyperbole?
- vasilipupkin 13y agoyes. Have you followed news out of Russia lately ?
- panacea 13y agoYeah, some shitty news coming out of Russia around the criminalisation of homosexuality. The news coming out of Snowden on the US is very fucking bad too. So what happens if homosexuality is outlawed in the US and the NSA can dragnet every online thing ever?
- vasilipupkin 13y agothis hypothetical if seems irrelevant to our discussion. US and the rest of the western world have a much better track record on supporting individual freedoms than Putin's government, which violates them whenever it sees fit or whenever it's politically expedient. That fact is hard to argue with
- frenger 13y agoWhat do the recent leaks have to do with Putin? What relevance is there in what you're saying? Sometimes it's not a binary 'good guys vs bad guys'.
- vasilipupkin 13y agoDo you honestly believe a trained KGB agent like Putin would give Snowden asylum in Russia without getting something in return ( I mean other than publicity )? Possible, it is also possible he got something in return from Snowden
- frenger 13y agoHas Snowden given you any reason to think that he'd do that? The guy must be principled as shit to have done what he's done in the first place.
- vasilipupkin 13y agoI just think it's naive to believe that Russian regime would not use the information that Snowden has in his possession in exchange for asylum.
- oleganza 13y agoIt's silly to blame Snowden to any degree. He got enough troubles from his employer already. The problem is the reason why he got "4 laptops of NSA secrets". Hint: it is because there are certain people who lie, spy and threaten people.
- vasilipupkin 13y agoI disagree with your logic. If the goal is to further the goals of open society and freedom, the worst way to do it is to deliver US Govt secrets to Putin's KGB ( or FSB as they call it now ). What is the net effect of this action? depending on what's on those laptops, he could have made things worse
- oleganza 13y agoIt's silly to focus on Snowden's actions at all when uncontrolled violent organization forces various groups of people to give up information on millions of people and lie to them about the fact. Imagine, Snowden does not go to Russia, but goes to Finland instead. Did it make your life any better considering what we know?
- vasilipupkin 13y ago"uncontrolled violent organization". That's a bit of an overstatement, don't you think? And the same or worse could be said of the Russian FSB ( former KGB )
- oleganza 13y agoAm I defending Russian government anywhere? Government is not controlled by people. This is easy to prove by trying to peacefully disagree with government's procedures. E.g. not paying taxes or not following regulations when establishing a company or a bank. "Voting" is a suggestion. You are not allowed to "vote" for "leave me alone, I don't hurt anyone".
- 13y ago
- RyanZAG 13y agoThis is not about who is worse.
- vasilipupkin 13y agoI agree with you to a degree, however, it is not entirely fair to view NSA activities in isolation as if they are happening in an idealized world where Putin and the KGB do not exist
- frenger 13y agoYeah you're right, he's an irreconcilable traitor. Though I mean, it's a bit of an assumptive jump from whistleblower to turncloak spy, but I'm totally with you. Although.. he did give the data to journalists, and not to Putin. And he did plan to go further but got his passport cancelled.. But yeah, I'm sure the jump you made there is sound.. there is after all an exhaustive list of alternative places that would have sheltered him. Right?
- nodata 13y agoSo where was Snowden meant to travel to? Russia wasn't his preferred final destination...
- pooriaazimi 13y agoWhen there are no "good" governments left (and the extent of your own country's graciousness is "not seek death penalty" for you), your options are limited. Put yourself in his position. What else could he do? Stay in the US and be subject to the same fate as Manning (possibly even worse)?
- JonnieCache 13y ago>4 laptops full of NSA secrets Source? The man was a sysadmin for the NSA, not some script kiddie.
- acqq 13y agoWhere did you read that he has 4 laptops that are full of NSA secrets? I know only this: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/42127_LA_Times_Contradicts_Guardian_Story_of_Snowdens_Four_Laptops http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/42127_LA_Times_Contr...
- alan_cx 13y agoName the country which is acceptable, possible to travel too, and out of US reach.
- foobarqux 13y agoThere is no reason to believe Snowden gave anything to Russian interests. In fact Snowden has stated that he took precautions so that he couldn't hand over any secrets even under torture. Presumably he can still give up whatever is in his head but there is no evidence to suggest he has done that either.
- peterkelly 13y agoSnowden actually wanted to go to Ecuador - Russia was simply a layover on the flight. It's only because the US demonstrated it wouldn't allow him to leave (by virtue of pressuring European countries to deny airspace permission) that he's still here.
- tovarischsukhov 13y agoCongrats on getting downvoted hardcore. HK fascists from San Fran only like freedom of expression as long as it conforms to their idiotic delusions.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- oleganza 13y agoReminder: the real reason Snowden could not walk out of the airport is not because of some virtual "passport" that US "revoked". It is because there are real armed obedient guys on the border who would not let Snowden go his way. This whole story is not about privacy, spying or politics. It is about your personal inability to choose your phone company, internet provider, or a bank without confronting armed "state" which dictates what is allowed to you. Don't like NSA spying through Verizon? Build your own phone company. Oops, there are feds with an order to "cooperate". Guns and violence are the problem, not all these abstract inventions like "rights" or "privacy".
- nobodyshere 13y agoKind of a useless reminder. Not a single source given for 'real armed obedient guys on the border'. On what border? Where? Besides, his revoked passport is not virtual. It is quite real.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- snitko 13y agoHis revoked passport is real in a sense that it's a real piece of paper that some guys decided should be required for people they rule to travel.
- marcc 13y agoSo... it's real. It's a piece of paper required to travel internationally. It's not virtual. A driver license isn't a virtual document stating you can legally drive a car, it's just a document stating you can legally drive a car.
- oleganza 13y agoLets start with "Reality 101". The documents do not talk and do not act. It's just a piece of paper (real) with some text on it (real). But it becomes a legal thing only when some particular armed dude is looking at it and makes decisions. So: the decisions of the armed dude are real, but "legal statement" is just a virtual abstraction invented to hide the fact that some violence will be applied.
- IvyMike 13y agoIt's kind of amazing that I visited and traversed the entire country by train (St Petersburg to Vladivostok) all while he was in the airport. So when everyone is talking about big political issues, all I can think of is all the mundane stuff he must be putting up with. Like: how much clothing does he have, and how is he doing laundry? And: Who's paying for his expenses? I assume his ATM card and Visa aren't good anymore. Get a blini and some квас at Теремок, Edward. It's pretty tasty.
- arkades 13y agoWhat does Teremok translate as? That was the name of my pre-K.
- ph0rque 13y agoProbably this: http://www.teremok.ru/ http://www.teremok.ru/
- xentronium 13y agoIn common speech, teremok is a small wooden or stone house[1], like the one from a fairy-tale of the same name [2]. Also a name of a fast food chain. Blini = pancakes. Kvas = Russian national non-alcoholic (<1%) beverage. [1] http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC [2] http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BA_(%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BA%D0%B0) http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%...
- elementai 13y agoInitially it was a term for an upper living floor in a rather big medieval russian house. Like a penthouse. After some time it became a synonym for a such house with "terem".
- mkup 13y agoIt's a brand name (restaurant network).
- nwh 13y ago
- pavs 13y agoWhat a strange world we live in, when you have to run from the US government after revealing its illegal and unconstitutional activity and hope for safe haven in Putin's Russia.
- andreypopp 13y agoWhat exactly do you find strange with this?
- pavs 13y agoIts strange because a whistleblower has to run from US government as he is 100% sure (rightfully) that there is no chance of having fair trial or policy change despite the revelations and its implications. And he has to run to Russia, a country that has much much worse human rights records (at least publicly, it is possibly that US government privately is much worse in human rights). I think the people of the USA should ask their government what is the legal way to expose government wrongdoing, _to the extend Snowden did_, without being prosecuted and having to run for his life? I am afraid, currently no such law exist.
- jacquesm 13y agoIt's a fairly typical case of shooting the messenger and this is the generalized fate of whistleblowers the world over, be it in corporations, governments or other institutions. The first response is to squelch the source by any means available. If there is change it usually is much later.
- twoodfin 13y agoas he is 100% sure (rightfully) that there is no chance of having fair trial Why is there no chance of him getting a fair trial? Are you accusing Federal judges of being corrupt puppets of the Obama administration or something?
- pavs 13y agoNot fair in the sense that the current law exists to not protect whistleblowers like snowden. The law is by default against him and there is no legal way to expose the government to the extend snowden did. As to Federal judge's my understanding is that (might be wrong) most of these appointments are political in nature. And at least in case of supreme court the judges tends to align with their ideological bias and their interpretation of laws often wildly differs. Don't quote me on it though, just my understanding.
- 300bps 13y agoAs a U.S. Citizen I support Snowden. Since 1865, there have been 5,031 deaths and 22,125 injuries caused by terrorism in the United States. Source: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html 5,000 deaths in 148 years. In 2011, 32,367 people died in vehicle accidents. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in... There are all kinds of cancers that "only" kill 1,000 or so people per year that are deemed not worthy of research because they are so rare. But for terrorism, we sacrifice nearly inexhaustible supplies of money and time. We sacrifice our liberty, our privacy. None of it makes any sense. Terrorism is nothing but fear mongering to effect an increase in power.
- jarsj 13y agoAm I the only one who find this flawed ? Why won't you take into account the deaths that would have occured both in short/long run if that money/time wasn't spent ? Note that this has kind of a butterfly effect. There is a possible argument for doing it more efficiently or differently, but this extreme comparison makes no sense.
- oleganza 13y agoIt's a very dangerous path to take when discussing statistics. Will it become moral to lie and extract taxation from people if there were 5000000 terrorists? At which amount of terrorists morality of gov lying and spying switches from "bad" to "good"? Or, if morality is not black and white, how can one lie and spy at the half the speed?
- 300bps 13y agoIt's a very dangerous path to take when discussing statistics. Statistics let you evaluate many things, including if the "cure" is worse than the "disease". In this case, terrorism has killed 5,000 people in 148 years. The "war on terror" has killed 4,486 Americans in Iraq and 2,259 Americans in Afghanistan alone. Source: http://icasualties.org/ http://icasualties.org/ That's at least 6,745 Americans killed in a little over a decade to fight something that has killed 5,000 Americans in 148 years. I'm purposely only mentioning American deaths to show how starkly idiotic what we're doing is.
- mcphilip 13y agoFor info on next steps in the processing of refugee applicants in Russia: http://rt.com/news/snowden-russia-immigration-asylum-758/ http://rt.com/news/snowden-russia-immigration-asylum-758/
- D9u 13y agoContracted rendition team in place...
- outside2344 13y agoThis is why it is good he is in Russia. In Ecuador, we'd get away with that shit but there would be a major shitstorm if we go commando into Russia.
- enko 13y agoI agree. Russia's perhaps the only country the USA would have serious reservations about going into. Maybe if it was some unknown defector or something .. but Snowden? My god, I can't even imagine what would happen. China would probably be the only credible alternative, but the govt there doesn't really have the right attitude to give someone like Snowden asylum.
- D9u 13y agoYou think that there are no mercenaries in Russia or <insert nation here> who would do the job for the right price?
- wil421 13y agoDoes anyone else find it odd that he immediately went to the US's biggest rivals. I mean right away he ran to Hong Kong (China) and now he has accepted asylum in Russia. I mean these countries have huge interest in this guy. He knows intimate details about how the USA gathers intelligence. I mean I wonder what kind of info he has given (if any) to these countries. I am sure Putin would love to get a hold of those laptops he took with him.
- k-mcgrady 13y agoNot odd at all. If he'd gone to a country with good US relations he would have been extradited. Russia and China don't want to be seen giving into requests from the US so along with Latin America were two of the safest places for him.
- wil421 13y agoYes but Latin American countries wouldn't have as much interest in his Intel as the other Russia and China. If he was just seeking asylum Ecuador would have been a much better choice for him. They have already given Assange asylum so I would think that would have been a better first option than HK.
- stelonix 13y agoLatin American countries also wouldn't have the power to tell the US to piss off (as we've seen in July). He asked for asylum there but there was no way he could fly to these countries.
- bigiain 13y agoI suspect Latin America is still his long term endplay. I note the Russian asylum is a temporary 1 year deal.
- stelonix 13y agoWhat I find odd are people finding odd he went to US's rivals in such a situation. I wonder, where do you suppose he should have gone? US-controlled Europe? The enemy of my enemy is my friend should be pretty obvious once you're running from a government that does not think twice about murdering their own citizens.
- znowi 13y agoThis is good news. I'm glad his airport captivity is finally over. Russia is possibly the safest place for him at this point. And I'm glad there's at least one country that can openly stand up against the growing US offense. Well done, Russia.
- D9u 13y agoSince the NSA says that there are such strict controls on who can access what sorts of data, how did Snowden gain possession of that data? If some private contractor can walk out with "thousands of classified documents" how are we supposed to believe that the NSA isn't lying about their allegedly strict controls?
- powertower 13y agoAs far as I can tell, he - 1. Purposely stole 4 laptops to sift through them, looking for anything he could use. 2. Never gained any access to the spying data... Only classified documents. A motivated person like that, not being able to gain (and provide examples to us) of that spying data, goes right against your second statement.
- RyanZAG 13y ago1. Proving the point. He stole 4 laptops! 2. He stated he had full access to the system as a contractor and could lookup details on anyone he wanted. I fully believe him. In his documents he has examples of the systems being used. Bonus point. He has yet to release all the documents and has timed his releases very well. Expect more documents showing better examples to be released in the future when the US government has stated more lies that he can disprove.
- powertower 13y ago> Proving the point. He stole 4 laptops! I've been trying to find the source, but I can't, so scratch off my #1. My understanding of it was the "theft of government property" charge was based on physical laptops, or their drives, being taken home... But I can no longer find that source. And all the media reports are alleging/assuming (though without any references or proof) that that charge is in relation to copying the data. And the indictment is sealed.
- cheald 13y agoDid he actually steal the laptops, or were they his laptops onto which he put stolen data?
- kushti 13y agoAnother day I'm proud to be Russian.
- gadders 13y agoAnd a load of days not to be: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/08/01/5614662/russia-will-enforce-anti-gay-law.html http://www.sacbee.com/2013/08/01/5614662/russia-will-enforce...
- speeder 13y agoActually I like this law, and I know most Russians like too... And it is a matter of survival to them.
- vdaniuk 13y agoSorry, what? Survival of whom, exactly?
- speeder 13y agoEthinic russians. They have a very low fertility currently, and there are plenty of correlation between places that accept homosexuality as normal (instead of only tolerating it) and low fertility. Of course, correlation is not causation, but what you think the majority of russians will think about the subject?
- Nrsolis 13y agoThis is a sad day for America. It's a sad day because a citizen of our nation decided he needed to go to a foreign journalist instead of one of our own to break this story. It's a sad day because that same citizen felt like he wouldn't get a fair trial in our justice system and might be treated the same way Bradley Manning was until he did get a trial. It's a sad day because lots of decent, honest people who work in our intelligence services that are trying desperately to uncover the next possible attack are going to have to work much harder. It's a sad day because those people are going to work harder because the leaders do not feel like they can trust the American people to understand and decide for themselves how much of their privacy they are willing to trade for the work that the government's intelligence services do. It's a sad day because we demonstrated that we care more about the embarrassment of our duplicity being revealed than in the ideals of our commitment to civil liberties. And I'm sad because I'm an American and I love my country and I want it to do better.
- jgrahamc 13y agoIt's a sad day because a citizen of our nation decided he needed to go to a foreign journalist instead of one of our own to break this story. Glenn Greenwald is a US citizen.
- Nrsolis 13y agoHe may be a US citizen, but he writes for the Guardian which is a UK newspaper. He is a foreign journalist.
- grey-area 13y ago1. Foreign means not from a country, Greenwald was born in Queens, NY - just because he lives abroad, that doesn't make him foreign. 2. He works for Guardian US, a US company based in New York. 3. According to the editor, it's actually easier for the Guardian to publish stories on this topic through their US subsidiary, rather than the UK, because free speech protections are stronger in the US, so the US connection is very important to them and they view themselves as a global media operation now (just moved to a .com domain for example).
- normalize 13y agoI'm flying into Sheremetyevo this Sunday. I was secretly hoping they would be holding one of those press conferences while I was there, a long shot I know. ES: if you're reading this- Anything you want from the homeland? I can drop it off in a secure location, I'll be staying about 100km south of Moscow. /u/@gmx
- pvnick 13y agoThis of course happening the day after what was perhaps the biggest revelation so far, even though Putin said that asylum would be conditional on Snowden promising "to stop harming the United States." I do not think this highly symbolic timing was coincidental.
- jacquesm 13y agoThat's super news, I was concerned that yesterdays release by Greenwald might imperil Snowdens chances in Russia but it appears that was unfounded. It's funny how this whistleblower thing might turn into a mirror image of the torture scheme the CIA employed: the CIA would use other countries to ship prisoners to to have them tortured/interrogated in ways that the country where the capture took place or the USA would not condone on their own soil (but for some magical reason doing it somewhere else or even hiring people to do it makes it ok). Now we get whistleblowers that move outside of the jurisdiction of the country the revelations are about. Cue a Russian whistleblower to flee to the USA for some symmetry.
- glbrew 13y agoI don't live in DC but it would be nice if someone could stop by the Russian embassy and put some flowers in front. It would show that American people don't necessarily agree with our government and are grateful for the Russian's support.
- pvnick 13y agoI'll bet Snowden is a Hacker News and Reddit user. I expect that he might read this thread when he gets to a computer, perhaps even taking the time to do a Reddit AMA. If so, Hi Ed! Thanks for doing what you did!
- ck2 13y agoIf it wasn't for Snowden the general population of the US would never be even having a discussion about widespread national spying on everyone. They could bury previous whistleblowers and Manning but Snowden has finally made people sit up and realize while the TSA is groping your genitals at the airport, the NSA is groping everything else about your life at that same intimacy. The sad part is, in 100 years nothing will have changed, it will just be hidden better and whistleblowers seized before they can get to the press.
- koshatnik 13y agoJust as well he's not gay then - Bradley Manning would have found things a bit harder in this situation
- known 13y agoIs US Administration seeking peace or obedience from rest of the world?
- bedhead 13y agoGood thing he's not gay.
- zbowling 13y ago413 points, 4 hours, half way down the page? something is a miss with the voting system on HN.
- thelukester 13y agoRemember that we’re wired to respond to personal news. That’s the secret to Facebook’s and tabloid magazine’s success. So as happy as I am about this, let it also be a reminder that Snowden's not the story. The fate of the internet is. If you haven't read it, this is a great article on the subject: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jul/28/edward-snowden-death-of-internet http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jul/28/edward-sno...
- rafski 13y agoI don't think this was ever posted on HN and happened just 2 months ago. This is how Russia deals with extradition when the shoe is on the other foot and they want someone: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/czechrepublic/10090013/Fuel-tanker-ordered-to-block-Russian-plane-from-taking-off-at-Czech-airport.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/czechrepubl... Reportedly "dangerous stand-off" meant that Russians pulled guns on the plane and Czech police withdrew in order not to escalate.
- mcovey 13y agoGod Bless Russia.