8 ms·
Measure internet censorship
- like_any_other 25d agoThe most pervasive censorship is who and what social media companies decide to block or suppress. Even in places like China. It's deliberately harder to measure, but any censorship measurement that omits it is like measuring war casualties, but ignoring those on the front lines.
- geraneum 25d agoNot to minimize the impact of social media censorship, but one should really live in a country like Iran to grasp what pervasive censorship is. Most people born and raised in the relative freedoms provided in modern democratic systems have no clue what it feels like when you have such dictatorships. I say this because, looking at the current trends, we _could be_ heading in that direction, and the comparison is apt.
- like_any_other 25d ago[flagged]
- geraneum 25d ago> You don't know what it feels like not because you're so free, but because you agree with the ruling regime on what it considers the most important questions. We don’t know what it feels like because we collectively participate and decide what should be considered and what not _periodically_ and it’s possible to change it, evidently, with various degrees and velocity by voting. > I would much prefer the dictatorship-style censorship, because our censorship is far, far more effective. Case in point! I’ve lived under both and can guarantee you don’t know what that dictatorship you so much yearn for has in their bag for you until it’s too late.
- aaa_aaa 25d agoI guess he is not yearning for dictatorship, the style of censorship is the question. Preventing access to information is bad, but likely less harmful than deception.
- aaa_aaa 25d agoIt is a shame OP's comment is flagged. Talk about censorship
- geraneum 25d ago> Preventing access to information is bad, but likely less harmful than deception. It’s a mistake to separate these. They go hand in hand and mich further as you climb up the authoritarian ladder. What do you think is the style of censorship in authoritarian regimes like Iran? Do you think it’s just preventing access?
- like_any_other 25d ago> by voting Not a single one of my examples was committed by the government (except if you count funding Carnegie Mellon and MIT). But even in cases when they are, voting rarely helps: https://www.woes.blog/p/tgr-democracy https://www.woes.blog/p/tgr-democracy > you don’t know what that dictatorship you so much yearn for Re-read my sentence. I don't yearn for a dictatorship, I yearn to blunt and make obvious the current secret, subtle censorship regime. > has in their bag for you Is it jail? “White Lives Matter” Slogan Earns Two Dutch Men Imprisonment for Racism - https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news-corner/netherlands-jail-for-white-lives-matter-slogan/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news-corner/nether... Activist ran race-hate sticker library, court told - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c51zn2l33r9o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c51zn2l33r9o -Stickers with text like "It's OK to be White" and "We will be a minority in our homeland by 2066". For which he was later convicted and jailed - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-68448867 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-68448867 I repeat - you agree with the regime. You're floating in the river, letting it carry you where it pleases, while telling those swimming upstream that there is no current, nothing to struggle against. Edit as reply because "posting too fast": > How did all of these social media companies made a 180 suddenly after power shifts in Washington? None of the racist or right-wing or white nationalist subreddits got unbanned, American Renaissance is still banned off Facebook and Youtube, Facebook still explicitly bans white nationalism, and other social media ban it implicitly as "hate speech", TikTok bans "white lives matter" [1], and promised to ban even more [2] (under Trump's 1st term), while wikipedia doesn't even bother to mention that as censorship [3]. All of this is still the case under the current Washington. The only exception is Twitter, after Musk bought it - there, American Renaissance got unbanned. And a 180 would imply that these things are not only unbanned, but their opponents are banned. So if you're going to just make stuff up, i.e. lie, then I won't waste my time with you. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/tiktok-sparks-massive-backlash-after-it-bans-the-phrase-white-lives-matter-while-keeping-black-lives-matter-chinese-propaganda/ar-AA24RbWj https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/tiktok-sparks-massive-b... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/tiktok-says-it-will-crack-down-on-anti-semitism-white-nationalism/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/tiktok-says-it-will-crack-down... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_TikTok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_TikTok
- howunfortunate 25d agoI'm curious what trends you see towards censorship? Elon presumably being an exemplar for current trends: Twitter is unarguably far less censored than it was before (though censorship is still present). And Meta took note and also turned down its censorship significantly in response. The Epstein files, while far less than hoped for by many, are another example of a trend towards sharing far more sensitive info than has been typical by past administrations. There are many good examples you could point to of increased authoritarianism, but censorship in particular seems to be on the backswing, if anything. Edit: oof, it's extremely concerning that the comment below was flagged
- geraneum 25d agoIt’s too soon for such a conclusion IMO. The pervasive Iran-like censorship I was talking about will rear its ugly head when those authoritarian regimes are established. It’s a tool and I can assure you it will be used extensively. This is nothing new really. P.S. the Epstein files were just a cruel joke! I wouldn’t list it there.
- howunfortunate 25d agoIt doesn't add up for me. If the goal is simply authoritarian control, why would they employ less censorship than their predecessors? Surely they could get away with at the very least the same amount?
- geraneum 25d ago> simply authoritarian control There’s nothing simple about authoritarian control. Who says we have less censorship? Sure people can tweet all kind of stuff without getting banned. Fine, but at the same time US president is removing news networks he doesn’t like from press briefings. That’s just one example. To say the censorship is in decline is baffling.
- trombuance 25d ago[dead]
- cindyllm 25d ago[dead]
- NooneAtAll3 25d agocensorship of websites is done to move more of population onto social platforms you control one isn't ignoring the other
- cherrylimesoda 25d ago[dead]
- NooneAtAll3 25d agodid you reply to the wrong comment?
- howunfortunate 25d agoHmm. I'd wager the vast majority of internet censorship is within platform, like that done by Reddit mods. The most egregious example I've seen in my lifetime was when old Twitter decided to censor a NYPost article, down to blocking sharing in DMs. It seems that type of example is entirely missed here. Is there any attempt to capture that signal?
- bluebic 25d ago[dead]
- Bluestein 25d agoAs a thought exercise, could it be captured?
- howunfortunate 25d agoDepends on the platform. On Reddit, definitely yes, as almost all censorship is "deletion style" where the target post or comment is initially visible until the mods suppress it. But your point is well taken, it's definitely more challenging and expensive than what's being done here.
- Bluestein 25d agoIt would be one heck of a challenge, but, almost by definition "impossible" - as a naive guess, perhaps (for those platforms that have opened code) characterize some statistical signatures that "arbitrary data" ran through it (simulating user activity) would show ... ... and then check for those (or, counterexamples) in the wild.-
- mitxela 25d agoThat used to be the case on Reddit, not any more as about half of all accounts start off shadowbanned and mods approve their posts.
- goatsi 25d agoJoin the referral program for a low cost online pharmacy. Post a link on each platform informing the users about the availability of male health products. Measure if it gets removed.
- piskov 25d ago> Measure the speed and performance of your network with the NDT test This is very much in line with the likes of pokemon go, wiki landmark projects and what have you (those are nice things to have for autonomous drones/missiles to navigate only with vision when gps/cellular/starlink is actively blocked). — Russia banned stuff like speedtest because things like that may help “map” the network, aid NSA to model malware propagation, etc. Not that this should matter when you have cisco, dell, nokia hardware, but it won’t hurt either. — I mean come on, some nuts even willingly install stuff like this: https://atlas.ripe.net/ https://atlas.ripe.net/
- progbits 25d agoAre you arguing for security by obscurity?
- flexagoon 25d agoThat's the point of open data. Anyone can use it, and that includes the NSA or any other state actor you don't like, but it also includes anyone else. I don't see what's wrong with running things like RIPE Atlas if the data is actually open and not just given to the NSA only for their purposes.
- sandeepkd 25d agoI really wonder if anyone installs it on their machine. May be I am one off but I am Hearing about this for first time, don't recognize any of their partners.
- 8organicbits 25d agoMany of the partners are country focused but the Tor Project, Citizen Lab, and Internet Society are well known to me.
- thenthenthen 25d agoI would love to contribute, but i do not think it is a good idea to install and run this in China…enough said. Also i already know the outcome: network is fast, everything is blocked
- mitxela 25d agoDo they arrest you just for trying to load a blocked site?
- Gathering6678 25d agoThey do not. But it is pretty pointless I would guess: probably most of the domains this tries to visit will be blocked.
- mitxela 25d agoDocumenting that fact is the point.
- Gathering6678 25d agoIn China's case, it is a very well known and documented fact that heavy censorship is present. Of course if one thinks additional knowledge on that is useful enough to solicit wide user participation, that is certainly one way of thinking.
- 1e1a 25d agoWould be cool if it also measured the latency and throughput across many different protocols to detect deviations from net neutrality.
- mitxela 25d agoRelated: you can "traceroute" a specific port, TCP or UDP. Different routes for different ports is a sure sign of tampering. Check the man page for syntax.
- walrus01 25d agoFor everyone in this thread saying "but the platforms!", I don't disagree with you. Extensive censorship exists. But I don't believe that's the intended purpose of this tool and the metrics it collects. It doesn't measure censorship at what we would call layers 4-7 in the OSI model. It's concerned with IP reachability and layer 3. It collects valid data for that purpose.
- reisse 25d agoDo they distinguish between "censored in transit" and "blocked by destination"? In the last years many sites started to drop/block connections from the countries like China and Russia. It is sad to see how Internet is becoming more and more fragmented.
- mitxela 25d agoThere's a pretty bad bias problem here because the probe app scans domains that are frequently blocked in dictatorships, but doesn't scan domains that are frequently blocked in "democracies", like Anna's Archive. Then it ends up looking like the dictatorship countries have all the censorship.
- qerghnui 25d agoI would only use the term "censorship" to refer to the prevention of speech based on its content. Content-neutral time, place, and manner restrictions aren't censorship according to the way I use the word, and neither is copyright protection. Note that censorship isn't necessarily bad and restrictions on speech that aren't censorship aren't necessarily acceptable. The prohibition on child pornography is censorship but I support it, while I am opposed to IP law in its entirety.
- Gathering6678 25d agoAnna's Archive is prevented by some countries from visiting because of its (presumably illegal) content. All restrictions are based on its content.
- qerghnui 25d agoIs that in fact the reason? I'm not familiar with what's happening outside the USA.
- Gathering6678 25d agoSee "Spotify lawsuit" in the wikipedia article. Also: "In January 2024, Italy's ... ordered major internet service providers (ISPs) in the country to block Anna's Archive due to a copyright complaint..." "In March 2024, ... ordered major ISPs in the Netherlands to block Anna's Archive and LibGen due to a request by advocacy group BREIN (which represents the interests of the Dutch entertainment industry)." "In December 2024, the UK Publishers Association won an order from the High Court of Justice requiring major ISPs to block Anna's Archive... under section 97A of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna%27s_Archive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna%27s_Archive
- analog8374 25d ago"Dictatorship" is the standard forum design. Reddit, HN, X, Lemmy... All of them. And censorship is common. We literally prefer it that way. I think it's to create a solid blame trail. I think that's a necessary thing.
- howunfortunate 25d agoI think what 'we' prefer is the bad team's posts being censored, but none of our team's stuff getting censored. But what we prefer and what's good for us are two drastically different things.
- chadpkeith 25d agothat part, right there. "what we prefer, and what's good for us are two drastically different things" is why this stuff will keep happening in places like my country. We're raised thinking any discomfort at all must mean something is wrong, which is not the case. if you're experiencing discomfort it means you're literally being pushed to grow past your current plateaus, both physically, and mentally. I don't know of any slogans like "a bag of potato chips a day keeps the doctor away" or "avoid pain? you gain". Chances are whatever the most uncomfortable way something could unfold for you, within reason, is probably the best thing for you to experience. I actually do the opposite now. The second something aligns with my own ideals perfectly, I inherently distrust it. Because that shouldn't happen. We all think a lot alike, but also very differently. If any political party, commercial, or anything meant to be absorbed by the masses seems like it's perfectly aligned with you? It most likely is bad for you, in my experience.
- analog8374 24d agoto hear it from the users, ya, it's all about censoring the other team. so that's why censorship is good. to hear it from the mods, it's about being responsible for what's said to the admins above. so that's why they need to have censorship power.
- cherrylimesoda 25d ago[dead]
- Panzerschrek 25d agoPretty strong censorship. That's why I can't even open this link in my country.
- altmind 25d agoRipe atlas have thousand of endpoint that can ping/fetch.
- peter_d_sherman 25d agoRelated: Quack: Scalable Remote Measurement of Application-Layer Censorship: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity18/sec18-vandersloot.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurit... Global Measurement of DNS Manipulation: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity17/sec17-pearce.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurit... Reachability index of Internet blockade circumvention tools: https://explorer.ooni.org/circumvention https://explorer.ooni.org/circumvention Psiphon: https://forge.psiphon.ca/en/what-is-psiphon https://forge.psiphon.ca/en/what-is-psiphon
- WorseIsBetter 25d ago[flagged]
- cyanlimetea 25d ago[dead]
- FlockIsYC 25d ago[dead]
- redberrytea 25d ago[dead]
- cherrylimesoda 25d ago[flagged]
- mitxela 25d agoA word of advice: you don't get very far by posting on a platform that the platform's owners and moderators must be murdered
- bluebic 25d ago[dead]
- fnordpiglet 25d agoIs this an “instantly be arrested by the secret police” app for those where such things are censored? The glowing reviews would reflect quite the survivor bias.
- drfloyd51 24d agoHow is this not marketing for large websites? Facebook doesn’t give a shit about censorship, beyond it means a limited audience.
- fractal618 24d agoI’d be careful to use a tool like this because it will look like you are going to these sites in question.
- kittikitti 24d agoThank you for having circumcision.org on the list of websites.