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Canada welcomes EU proposal to become 'associate member'
- solox3 17d ago> US President Donald Trump earlier called the idea "laughable" and threatened "very serious tariffs" on Europe if he considered it a "hostile act". So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act? Makes it all the more obvious that USA is Canada's abusive partner, that they should have broken up with a long time ago.
- Maskawanian 17d agoAgreed, and the possibility of visa free travel to the EU, plus the removal of live/work barriers is appealing. The USA really comes off as the spurned ex that calls you drunk in the middle of the night.
- larodi 17d agois it not visa free already for most of the states anyway?
- Maskawanian 17d agoGenerally it is auto approved for Canadians, but you will soon need to do an "ETIAS travel authorization".
- brummm 17d agoCanada actually implemented their ETA way before the EU did theirs.
- elias_t 17d agoYes but with that you’d be able to have a work permit as well!
- etiennebausson 17d agoI try not to take anything Trump say too seriously, but we have to remember that the USians chose him... twice.
- martythemaniak 17d agoWhy would you not take him seriously?
- ChrisRR 17d agoBecause we have decades of evidence to show that he's incredibly stupid?
- etiennebausson 17d agoBecause he can't string together a coherent sentence?
- jacquesm 17d agoThat doesn't really matter. What matters is that he commands the most powerful (probably?) offensive force on the planet and has already shown that he is more than willing to use it to achieve his nonsense objectives.
- JTbane 17d agoPersonally, I take everything he says and does seriously. I advise non-citizens visiting to turn their social media to private and bring a burner phone to immigration checkpoints. For citizens, turning off your phone should be enough.
- ninalanyon 17d agoI think a lot of us outside the US will go further and simply never visit the US ever again. That certainly applies to me despite having spent quite a lot of time in the US and having ex-colleagues who I regard as friends there.
- vrganj 17d ago"No Russian leader could stand idly by in the face of steps toward NATO membership for Ukraine. That would be a hostile act toward Russia" https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-future-in-nato-precarious-position-neither-putin-zelenskyy-happy-2023-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-future-in-nato-prec... edit since I guess the timestamp isn't visible to everyone: Jul 12, 2023, 5:56 PM GMT+2
- Geeek 17d agoWhy in the world do these articles not have published dates on them?
- monkey_monkey 17d agoLiterally states '1 hour ago' below the author.
- pmontra 17d agoI see "Jul 12, 2023, 5:56 PM GMT+2" right before "After this week's NATO summit in Lithuania..."
- chinathrow 17d agoThey're not even hiding it any more. Look who paid for one of his sons wedding...
- Tade0 17d agoThis was such a weird gesture. Why did they need anyone to pay for the wedding and why did it have to be someone with ties to Putin?
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- koolba 17d ago> So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act? I believe the terms in human relationships are coercive control and social isolation.
- Hamuko 17d agoTrump has already been threatening Canada and EU at various times already. Why should they assume a) this will be any different b) he'll stop if they do what he wants?
- Roscius 17d agoCarney has extremely strong support amongst the general public in Canada which hasn't been the case for the Canadian PM over the past 20+ years. 158 Canadian soldiers died defending the United States at the US's request after 9/11. Canadian fighter jets helped to patrol the skies in the US at the US's request after 9/11. The insults coming from the US Secretary of Defence and President are not unnoticed. They are logged and remembered.
- bambax 17d ago> 158 Canadian soldiers died defending the United States at the US's request after 9/11. Canadian fighter jets helped to patrol the skies in the US at the US's request after 9/11. Bad idea. Canada (as well as all other nations) should let the US fight and lose its wars by itself.
- __s 17d agoThis was under Jean Chrétien who recently gave a speech: https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jean-chretien-speaks-at-911-commemoration-in-gander-nl?id=c3920955-ad2a-45c5-82d0-316baaf7e105 https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jean-chretien-... He supported US in Afghanistan, but refused to support war in Iraq since he didn't consider there to be sufficient evidence of WMD
- tsunamifury 17d ago[flagged]
- bryanlarsen 17d agoThere is only one country that Canada needs to be secure from and they just used up most of their missiles in Iran.
- deleted 17d ago[deleted]
- 10294387 17d agoYou have never been "the worlds's backstop". If that is so onerous, multiple EU countries should get nuclear missiles and make an EU NATO. But you don't want that. You want the dollar propped up irrationally by your military promises and you want NATO and non-NATO proxies against Russia ans China. The promises incidentally fail yet again in Iran, where the Saudis already make other treaties with Turkey and Pakistan.
- jacquesm 17d agoIt's pretty much the exact same playbook that Russia used against Ukraine.
- 10294387 17d agoFortunately the US already fails in its first special military operation in Iran, so it cannot launch a second one in Canada to protect the English speaking population in Canada.
- jacquesm 17d ago> cannot Why not?
- badc0ffee 15d agoI say this as a Canadian who wishes nothing but failure for the US's military misadventures: Iran is a totally different situation. The inability for the US navy to effectively project power thousands of miles from the US says nothing about its ability to wage a land war close to home.
- Teever 17d agoThis comment[0] on HN from a while back marks the parallels between the two situations very clearly. It's very frustrating talking about this subject with Americans online[1]. In general they seem to have blinders on regarding the magnitude of the consequences of their democratic choice in leadership. I get a sense that a feeling of learned helplessness has beset the American people and that they're not able to imagine a world of agency and action against authoritarianism. I don't know what can shake them out of their torpor, but I do know that the longer they take to wake up the higher the price of action will be. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43485649#43487443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43485649#43487443 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49403201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49403201
- deleted 17d ago[deleted]
- dofm 17d agoPretty much exactly this. A whole lot of Trump's psychology has always been "it's your fault I hurt you" for the longest time — it's a very clear undercurrent in how he treated his first wife. He's an abuser. And now so is the USA.
- Lio 17d agoAs I said it in another post, what does Trump expect? His negotiations are all stick and no carrot. Canada is bound to look for new trade opportunities in the face of that. You make a deal with Trump, it's always worse than what you had previously. Then, no mater what you do, he breaks the deal 3 months later with some kind of implied military threat if you complain. All the comparisons with personal relationships here are silly. This isn't a marital split. This someone who thinks they're the only customer saying they don't want to buy something and the vendor saying fair enough, I'll sell it to someone else.
- rdm_blackhole 17d ago> So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act? I don't think anyone really says it's an hostile act but both countries, Canada and the US will have to decide what it means for their ongoing relationship. Canada is free to get closer to Europe and the US is free to be displeased about it. Maybe it works out well for Canada or maybe it doesn't. > Makes it all the more obvious that USA is Canada's abusive partner Why anthropomorphize geopolitics? This is just just a big fish throwing its weight around like all big fishes do. Russia does it with its neighbors, China does it as well and India and Europe are not shy about it either. It's just the name of the game and its been happening since the dawn of time. Some states use force, others bribe or cajole but in the end they all try to influence their neighbors in a way that suits their interests especially if these neighbors are smaller in terms of population/economy/military etc... The fact that so many people are shocked by such news these days is because everyone drank the cool aid of the End of History and forgot that spheres of influence still exists and that the rule of law was nothing more than gentleman's agreement that could be thrown out of the window at a moment's notice without second thoughts.
- atomic_cattlepr 17d ago> I don't think anyone really says it's an hostile act Trump does. His inner circle does. His supporters do. > Canada and the US will have to decide what it means for their ongoing relationship. Sounds like an abusive husband's version of "think of what this will do to the children." > Why anthropomorphize geopolitics? Because some people need to have complex issues explained to them in ways that are simple to understand. Particularly when it comes to issues involving Trump politics, the people who desperately need to understand these issues are those who also seem to need the issues explained to them like they are a fourth-grader. Hence, the replies you have been seeing.
- randomNumber7 17d ago> So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act? If your ex starts dating your best friend directly after breakup, would you consider it a hostile act?
- deleted 17d ago[deleted]
- troyvit 17d agoYou mean the same best friend that you unilaterally groped[1], shit-talked[2], undermined[3] and tried to drag into a brawl[4]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_crisis [2] https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-nato-policy-defense-plans-europe-america/ https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-nato-policy-def... [3] https://www.cadtm.org/Trump-Europe-and-the-international-neo-fascist-movement-from-ideological https://www.cadtm.org/Trump-Europe-and-the-international-neo... [4] https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/31/europe/trump-lashes-out-europe-iran-war-latam-intl https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/31/europe/trump-lashes-out-europ...
- buellerbueller 17d ago>If your ex starts dating your best friend directly after breakup, would you consider it a hostile act? "breakup" is doing a huge amount of counterfactual sanewashing here.
- andrewflnr 17d agoI might, but that wouldn't make me right or make my ex unjustified. It might just be another instance of me being an asshole.
- jrimbault 17d agoLuckily states are not hormones-driven romcom protagonists.
- andrewflnr 16d agoInstead, they're dogs. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130817.png https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130817.png
- c16 17d agoSometimes the winning move is to not play at all. He's finding out what happens when people stop playing his game.
- fluidcruft 17d agoUSA has always been very aggressive about territory and hostile to Europe in the Americas. The Canada vs UK vs EU relationship seems more interesting to me.
- jerf 17d agoResearch the "Monroe doctrine"... by which I mean, don't just look up a one paragraph summary, spend a bit of time with it. A few pages of text at least. Ideally in a modern formulation you should encounter the term "World Island" without having directly searched for it and how the modern iteration of the Monroe doctrine is a reaction to that in a way that the original didn't have to contend with. I'm not doing advocacy here, I'm giving pointers on how to come to a deeper understanding of what is going on. It is also important to understand that the EU is directly attacking this doctrine with this proposal. You are free to agree with the EU. Again, I'm just giving something to guide people to a deeper understanding of what is going on beyond the surface level playground politics of it all. There's more going on than that. (Personally I would say I "disagree" with the Monroe doctrine but the sort of national/international structure I would actually want is not even remotely on the table, so... my opinion is thereby of even less import than a random other opinion drawn from "the masses" for choosing "E, none of the above" when that was not given as an option in the first place.)
- Angostura 17d agoI think you've said nothing here other "Look up a good summary of the Monroe doctrine, with which I mildly disagree"
- jerf 17d agoYou elided if you want to understand what is going on more deeply, which is a rather important part. I say that precisely because I know that in reality most people aren't that interested. Which feel like I'm insulting people or something, but it's just the reality, we don't all have time to dig into absolutely everything all the time, and if you're not interested that's fine. But if you are, this is the best pathway to understanding this at a deeper level than the playground level.
- tsunamifury 17d agoWhat arrogance.
- zmgsabst 17d agoThis is a direct stab at the US imperialist faction — not MAGA, who want the US to break up with the EU. I genuinely don’t understand this move through the lens of realpolitik: they’re mad at Trump, so they’re going to offend CFR et al who are aligned on Fortress America and neo-empire by threatening to take a critical vassal for the EU? Okay — but you just turned being mad at MAGA into the MIC deep state viewing you as an enemy and therefore further military alliance with any EU member unviable. All because the EU couldn’t stomach four years of crass taunts from a TV conman. Total MAGA victory.
- ChrisRR 17d agoTrump lacks the introspection to realise that he's the bully at the playground that everyone is distancing themselves from. He somehow thinks that he's going to make the US more respected by constantly jabbing at his allies
- rsynnott 16d agoSee Putin on Ukraine. Very much the same idea; "country near us having its own foreign policy is an attack on us!!!"
- marginalia_nu 17d ago[flagged]
- deleted 17d ago[deleted]
- close04 17d ago> US President Donald Trump earlier called the idea "laughable" and threatened "very serious tariffs" on Europe if he considered it a "hostile act". There's a lawsuit [1] on the way related to the Epstein files so this Canada-EU topic gives Trump the perfect opportunity to divert the attention. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/09/lawsuit-trump-doj-notified-very-few-victims-in-epsteins-stash-of-child-sex-images/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/09/lawsuit-trump-do...
- hedora 17d agoDon’t forget granting partial control of that other strait to the Houthis a few days ago. Closer to home: there have been a record number of firefighter fatalities this year. It is partially climate change, and partially redirecting national guard troops to harass folks in DC and pick up litter. According to this morning’s news, he’s also micromanaging of firefighting efforts to make them less effective, more expensive, more dangerous, and to maximize future fire risk. Basically he’s dictated head on attacks to fire fronts, and complete suppression. All experts and firefighters agree it is better to contain the borders of the fires instead, and only fight fires on the interior if it makes ecological sense or protects buildings, lives, etc. (After all, the burn on the interior is necessary for forest health, and also removes fuel.) Then there’s the NASA thing, where he didn’t want to pay $10M for building maintenance, so instead put $10B of active missions at risk, and threw out > $100M of specialized equipment (or auctioned it off at tenths of pennies on the dollar; probably to US adversaries).
- CanadianRetards 17d ago[dead]
- lasky 17d ago“divert attention” away from a political economic issue that actually impacts hundreds of millions of peoples’ lives and livelihoods toward… a drama about rich pedophiles?
- close04 16d ago
- HelloUsername 17d agoRelated: "EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member' (bbc.com)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49724141 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49724141 863 comments
- emptyfile 17d ago[dead]
- delichon 17d agoReaction from the Canadian opposition leader: The Prime Minister can’t seem to get his story straight about the “associate membership,” “unique alliance,” or whatever else he is negotiating with the EU. Conservatives are clear: we support the decades-old free trade & NATO defence alliance with Europe. But no EU taxes, no EU laws, and no EU open-border immigration policies should be imposed on Canadians. Canada must be independent and sovereign. Period. https://x.com/PierrePoilievre/status/2100274078066036766 https://x.com/PierrePoilievre/status/2100274078066036766
- Maskawanian 17d agoThis is the same PP that grasped defeat in the face of victory, and is continually losing support, relegating himself to the same position of the Reform party that it was in the 90's. The same Polly that lost his riding last election, and had to have one handed to him on a silver spoon. I would take his opinion with a grain of salt.
- SketchySeaBeast 17d agoNot just losing support, but his poor leadership managed to hand the liberals a majority months after the election.
- MrGilbert 17d ago> EU open-border immigration policies should be imposed on Canadians Not sure what's meant by that... People won't start swimming over the atlantic ocean. And flights to Canada aren't really cheap, by any means.
- mrbanks 17d ago[dead]
- GetOot 17d ago[flagged]
- sudofail 17d agoAccount created 2 minutes ago. Are political bots hitting hacker news as well?
- WarmWash 17d agoMeanwhile, Alberta, where all of Canada's "energy security" is located, is holding a secession referendum on Oct 19. The chances of Canada getting everyone to go along with this are close to zero. (As are the chances of Alberta actually seceding). It's just political theater
- lostmsu 17d ago> It's just political theater Do you think the referendum in question is not a political theater? I don't know much, but it stands to me that the EU association is magnitudes more serious.
- petcat 17d ago> where all of Canada's "energy security" is located Alberta selling oil to USA is, by itself, like 20% of Canada's entire GDP. And 70% of all other exports go to USA too. So yeah it is mostly just theater because there's a loud mouth idiot in the White house. They're doing some lip-service and just hoping it will blow over when Trump is gone.
- arbirk 17d agoit is only around 5% of GDP
- john_strinlai 17d ago>Alberta selling oil to USA is, by itself, like 20% of Canada's entire GDP. wow, no, it's not "like 20%" at all. not even close. the entire oil and natural gas industry was 3.8% of canada's GDP in 2025. how did you even come up with that number?
- ian_b13 16d agoThe official stats Canada website has energy products at ~23.5% of total exports for July 2026 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2020013-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2020013... With crude oil and natural gas making up almost 90% of that number in 2025 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1210017201 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=121001...
- flowerlad 17d agoCan the blue states of USA become associate members too? He has declared that the blue states are the "enemy from within" and may launch the military against us soon. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/30/nx-s1-5557232/hegseth-generals-trump https://www.npr.org/2025/09/30/nx-s1-5557232/hegseth-general...
- krapp 17d agoUnfortunately, the Constitution (Article 1 Section 10) forbids states from entering into alliances and treaties with other countries, or with one another, without the explicit permission of Congress.
- hedora 17d agoYeah, but the federal government is completely ignoring the constitution. Which amendment contains the clause claiming the rest of the contract survives if parts are just unilaterally deleted by one side?
- flowerlad 17d agoLaw also prevents US military from being deployed against citizens, that isn't stopping Trump. In fact, Trump has asked for the constitution to be set aside, during his campaign. The Posse Comitatus Act makes it a criminal statute that bars anyone from willfully using federal military forces — the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and Space Force — "to execute the laws" unless expressly authorized by the Constitution or an act of Congress.
- petcat 17d agoThere are no blue states that would want to join the EU. The big ones would rather go independent. EU doesn't offer much
- greggoB 17d agoWould it be possible to offer anything more substantive? For example: 1) Why would none of the ~20-25 blue states want to join the EU? Why would it be preferable for the big ones to go it alone in an increasingly fractious world? 2) In what way does the EU not offer much? If this is the case, how did they end up with 28 members joining, another 5 or so waiting to do so, and only 1 ever leaving? The point isn't about being pro/negative the EU, it's about providing something thoughtful, as opposed to just throwing out your opinions.
- bsoqk 17d ago[flagged]
- donbox 17d agoCare to explain how Asia comes into picture. Please.
- preisschild 17d agoBetter integration and more free trade is an easy win-win scenario for both sides.
- bsoqk 17d agoIt’s a win-win scenario for wealthy people. Poor people always get screwed in any kind of free trade deal, since prices of goods always rise to the highest possible point in the entire free trade zone.
- preisschild 17d agoThat is just not true. FTAs lower trade barriers on imported goods, leading to consumer welfare gains from increase in product variety, better quality products and lower prices for existing products. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20161014STO47381/eu-free-trade-agreements-key-deals-and-the-negotiating-process https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20161014STO...
- bsoqk 17d agoThat’s as if you linked an article from Meta that says Facebook is good for you. Please, I live in Spain. I know what getting screwed with prices looks like.
- preisschild 17d agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
- mattz56 17d agoThat's unbelievable to be honest ! As european who live in Canada i have a weird feeling
- donbox 17d agoCurious if you would like to share more.
- alpineman 17d agoAccording to the FT, Von der Leyen didn't really get the OK from member states before coming up with this. Let's see what happens in practice, the trade agreement from 2017 hasn't even been ratified yet. (you can downvote all you want, don't shoot the messenger!) https://www.ft.com/content/7b1a00f1-6842-4f5e-ace4-d6a57e98b21e?syn-25a6b1a6=1 https://www.ft.com/content/7b1a00f1-6842-4f5e-ace4-d6a57e98b...
- isodev 17d agoGood. The EU is an economic and political union so facilitating trade and movement between political allies seems only natural.
- andy99 17d agoYeah, I don’t understand why people have a problem with this. I think it should basically always be true between peer nations that there is free movement and trade.
- buellerbueller 17d agoThere are a lot of jingoists around who want to use that character trait to amass power/wealth, or to find an excuse for things in their life they don't like. Sometimes, their grievances might even be legitimate.
- 50or05 17d agoJapan, Australia, South Korea and few other democracies also should join-in for resilience against US and China
- TheSkyHasEyes 17d ago> Yeah, I don’t understand why people have a problem with this. Some want to be ensured Canada's sovereignty isn't changed. As this as of right now is a news headline I get their point of view for now.
- ChrisRR 17d agoHaving been through years of brexit crap, I can tell you that the answer is racism, and the weaponisation of outrage by the media
- dijit 16d agoIrony aside (now there's more people from the middle-east migrating to the UK- which if you're racist you tend to hate more than Polish/French/German/Swedes/Estonians)... I think a lot of people who argued for brexit did so mostly out of ignorance. "There are regulations on bananas, this makes things inefficient!" (forgetting that the regulations on bananas was about categorising them, not forbidding sale). They felt out of touch and disconnected from EU parliament, and it seemed complicated and scary. Ironically the reason it's so complicated is because it's a lot more democratic than our own systems- but instead of attempting to understand it they threw their hands up and thought "since I didn't vote for every person who works there, it must be undemocratic!" It's very true that there was an anti-migration sentiment inside brexit, but I wouldn't go nearly so far as to say that this was the only feeling people had. I'd say it's mostly feeling a loss of control, which they couldn't place and our politicians were not open enough about explaining that this loss of control of the population was caused by.... the politicians themselves.
- jmatthews 17d agoWithout commenting on the EU, particularly, I would be concerned if I were a Canadian about Carney's commitment to globalism when the degenerate cases have become so common. It's a weird two-front war where people tend to answer the social question and ignore the economic one, but the economic question has not done any favors to the EU or the US for that matter
- mostly_harmless 17d agowhat does that mean? People should never have friends because some people are jerks? Self-isolation (whether a nation or a person) is not a good solution to hypothetical bad actors. Society is built on cooperation and trust
- garbawarb 17d agoCan you share some of these degenerate cases?
- watwut 17d agoWell, AfD winning elections, Hungary just getting rid of Orban, Slovakia being at risk, you know in general Trump like parties but in Europe. Ah, no who am I kidding. These usually worry about the opposite. What if EU manages to resist to those projects and remains liberal democracies?
- mordae 17d agoCzechia electing Babis who invited nazis into coalition... But I don't think you can just elect Hitler in every nation and then get them to cooperate. They will inevitably want more and when they do they become aggressive. At which point I guess people will reconsider. Smells like a long-term attempt to break the EU from within TBH.
- garbawarb 17d agoCan you share some of these degenerate cases?
- 17d ago
- philippemnoel 17d agoAs a Canadian, I find this unbelievably good news. Canada, the EU, and other middle powers need to unite. Stronger together, while preserving what makes each country unique.
- orochimaaru 17d agoAre there any tangible economic benefits here? Or is it just a label?
- Angostura 17d agoDoes low-tariff trade and easier freedom of movement offer benefits?
- orochimaaru 17d agoThat’s for full EU members part of the economic union. There is a whole process for that which takes a few years. Britain had a good deal which they threw away (use their own currency but they’re a part of the broader economic union). There’s already visa free travel from Canada to the EU and trade deals in progress. It’s unclear what specific benefits the associate member deal provides.
- 1over137 17d agoTourist visa. But this may end up including student and/or work visas.
- hylaride 17d agoWhile I would love to be able to live in Europe at-will, but it'll probably mean specific employment visas that will be relatively easy to get (similar to the USMCA T1 visas). I'd be happy if Canadians would be able to use the EU passports lines, though.
- arecurrence 17d ago
- earth-tattoo 17d ago[flagged]
- hedora 17d agoIn other, less covered news, Trump and Rubio are misusing their positions to loot Cuba: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/sep/17/trump-marco-rubio-cuba https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/sep/17/trump-marco-... They are currently targeting civilian populations there by weaponizing access to necessities. They have intentionally created multiple humanitarian crises, then rerouted food and energy imports through Florida companies for private benefit. This is a long way of asking: Can the US west coast become an associate EU member too? Here in California, the Sierra Nevada and deserts of the southwest are already 99% of the wall we’d need to protect our border from maga zealots.
- DaSHacka 16d ago> This is a long way of asking: Can the US west coast become an associate EU member too? Here in California, the Sierra Nevada and deserts of the southwest are already 99% of the wall we’d need to protect our border from maga zealots. From someone on the opposite side of the political aisle, you have my support!
- blueoranges 17d ago[dead]
- _ink_ 17d agoMan, I'd love if Canada became part of Schengen and had freedom of movement for workers as well.
- buellerbueller 17d agoI'd love if my EU passport allowed me work and living rights in Canada
- _ink_ 17d agoThat's what I meant with freedom of worker movement, not sure what's the correct term is.
- gizajob 17d agoCanadians aren’t going to vote for the reduced wages and worse conditions which several million EU workers will come with. This whole rhetoric is treating Canadians as if they’re metropolitan and worldly when for the most part a good 50% of them are like Americans but even more protectionist and insular, IMO.
- gls2ro 16d agoNone of these two partners benefit from mass migration because both of them actually need more workers. Also a trade partnership is not a zero sum game. Can also be that everybody will benefit by more trade, more cooperation and more exchanges for young people.
- sajithdilshan 17d agoAlso EU can exposer some of their asylum seekers to Canada as well
- swat535 17d ago[flagged]
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- chaostheory 17d agoThe irony in this was that Canada, led by Alberta, was leaning towards a break up that would have likely led to slowly merging with the US, until someone really smart, a very bright individual, threatened them militarily.
- Sprocklem 14d agoI don't think Canada was ever really going to break up, and certainly wouldn't in the near future without the foreign money poured into it.
- fashg182 17d agoWhile I would welcome Canada as an associate EU member, one must be aware of the possibility that this is political theater in order to sell more Ukraine support to the Canadian public. Canada proposes to join EU funding for the Ukraine war, so both the EU and Canada follow literally Pete Hegseth's instructions from 2025 for burden sharing in NATO and finance the US proxy war: https://www.ft.com/content/9cd8cc79-e98a-449f-a903-609b034a56e3?syn-25a6b1a6=1 https://www.ft.com/content/9cd8cc79-e98a-449f-a903-609b034a5... So both the EU and Canada are compliant US vassals despite the talk.
- T-RN-R 17d agoI don’t think you understand that the EU and Canada both have deep vested interests in protecting Ukrainian sovereignty. Canada shares a large Arctic border with Russia, and is geopolitically motivated to prevent Russian expansionism. The EU is motivated to defend its eastern flank, and impose cost on a Russia that may just eye the Baltic states next.
- dfjst 17d agoOf course they have an interest. Still, the US provoked the proxy war and should pay for it. I don't begrudge Ukraine getting money from the US. Why doesn't the US provoke Russia in Siberia? We know the answer: There are no proxies.
- temporallobe 17d agoMy understanding is that an EU member state has to physically be in Europe unless they are an “extension” of a state already in the EU. I get that it’s supposed to be an “associate” state but I’m fascinated by what kind of legal hoops they’re going to jump through to make this happen. They did make an exception for Cypress, so I suppose there’s some kind of precedent.
- Sharlin 17d agoAll of the things like free trade and free movement could presumably be negotiated separately, they’re just creating an omnibus deal and slapping a fancy label on it.
- triceratops 17d agoCanada has a sea border with France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon
- antoineleclair 17d agoAnd a land border with Denmark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island Also, I think the constraint to be in the EU is that it has to be "an European country". It's relatively vague.
- fph 17d agoIs it a land border? Because if they are separated by a stretch of sea, well, the same is true for Canada and mainland France.
- triceratops 17d agoBy that logic the UK doesn't have any neighbors other than the Republic of Ireland.
- jeroenhd 17d ago
- deleted 17d ago[deleted]
- ratelimitsteve 17d agoHey, so what do y'all think it felt like back in the 30s to watch the world split between a handful of really aggressive countries and everyone else? Specifically, what do y'all think it felt like to be a non-aggressive person living in one of the handful of really aggressive countries?
- derwiki 17d agoThe news cycle was a lot slower, and there’s a chance you wouldn’t be literate enough to read newspapers. I suspect you’d probably just carry on per usual.
- ratelimitsteve 17d ago>I suspect you’d probably just carry on per usual. That's entirely what I'm afraid of
- buellerbueller 16d agoCurrently, the news cycle is too fast to keep up with and 1 in 5 USian adults are functionally illiterate.
- pigpop 17d agoIs this some kind of astroturf campaign? It's like the 4th time this topic sourcing a BBC article has appeared on the first page in about as many days and the comments on it are all the same drab, short and repetitive expressions of support. This really doesn't seem like the kind of material that normally interests HN users.
- rrjjww 17d agoThis seems like US centric view. It’s big news, and highly relevant to tech workers across Canada and Europe.
- pigpop 17d agoI'm not even in the US. I just think it's absurd that minor variations on this news keeps ranking so high and a lot of the comments are basically "Good", "Great", "I support this".
- V__ 17d agoI assume there are a lot of Canadians and Europeans (myself included) on HN, who like some positive news for a change.
- gizajob 17d agoWhen you write longer comments you just get flagged down to -4 unless they’re blindly positive.
- gonzalohm 17d agoRight, we are only interested in anything AI
- hmokiguess 17d agoDon't forget written in Rust
- buellerbueller 17d agoMaybe the US Admin is deeply unpopular, and people are happy to discuss all the ways in which it is wrong and shortsighted?
- petermcneeley 17d agoShacked to a corpse! Europe where is your NVIDIA, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, OpenAI, SpaceX ... You have high power cost, high electric cost, high taxes; What fertile soil!
- lemmetellya 17d ago[dead]
- buellerbueller 17d agodon't forget high life expectancy!
- petermcneeley 16d agoCanada Breakdown by Gender Women: Average life expectancy is 84.29 years. Men: Average life expectancy is 80.30 years EU Breakdown by Gender Women: 84.1 years Men: 78.9 years If you dont know or understand this perhaps you dont know or understand other things.
- buellerbueller 16d ago>Europe where is your NVIDIA, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, OpenAI, SpaceX Because you were talking about US companies, the more apt comparison is: >EU >Breakdown by Gender Women: 84.1 years Men: 78.9 years US Life Expectancy by Gender: Women: 81.4 years; Men: 75.8 years >If you dont know or understand this perhaps you dont know or understand other things. Just dropping this here because the irony is thick.
- petermcneeley 15d agoSomething is thick indeed! I think your mistake is that you think im American. I am Canadian. So when I look at the EU I ask what is in it for me? And from Canada's perspective it is not "high". I mean if Canada was joining America this might be relevant (debatable). But look at how kick ass Canada is. We have euro lifestyle while still not being Americans. So again, I dont know if you understand this perhaps you dont know or understand other things.
- sajithdilshan 17d agoWhat’s going on with HN? This article from BBC is like the 4th time in front page in HN with everyone worshipping EU with support and adoration. And ever comment critical about this is being downvoted by bots. Since when did HN became a nonsensical propaganda machine for EU?
- derwiki 17d agoI read it less as support for the actual thing, and more that folks support something they think the current US administration won’t like.
- hedora 17d agoI think it is support for the actual thing. Functional economies benefit startups, even if the startup is in the US and the functional parts of the market are overseas.
- noir_lord 17d agoCurrent and future administrations won't like. Or more specifically, for those paying attention many of us have to come around to the belief that it doesn't really matter who comes after Trump, We need to not be as dependent on the Americans because we can simply no longer trust them not to do it again since they already did it twice. The issue is simply more pressing for the Canadians because they share a land border, 70% of their trade is with the US and they have threatened annexation. It's not less pressing really for us Europeans either, a lot of people/politicians have had to ask some awkward questions like "Just how exposed are we to the Americans if they continue on this path" and the answer is one they really don't like. The world order as it was benefited the Americans and us in myriad ways but they seem to have decided they no long want things that way so it entirely comes down to what we do in response to that. In some ways an unreliable ally is worse than an enemy because you can generally predict what your enemies intentions will be. It seems like a lot of Americans get discomfited when you point this out even the ones who don't support Trump/the current US Gov but it's not personal, on the scale of countries it can't really be personal. We simply can't trust them as a country or as a government as much as we previously could and I don't see that changing for the better in at least a generation if they even want it to.
- jorblumesea 17d agoEU is notoriously fractured and divided in the best of times, especially around membership. Importantly, many EU countries have not ratified CETA, and that was put in place in 2017. FT is a pro transatlanticism but has a somewhat negative take on all of this https://www.ft.com/content/2e2e0c1e-51d6-49e2-9f4a-6ef793908b85?syn-25a6b1a6=1 https://www.ft.com/content/2e2e0c1e-51d6-49e2-9f4a-6ef793908...
- nolok 17d ago> EU is notoriously fractured and divided in the best of times, especially around membership. Eh, we're less divided than people who think so realize, we're more divided than people who think we're united realize. Not really an issue on that particular case. > Importantly, many EU countries have not ratified CETA Like a lot of deals, including a big part of dicussion in the Canada/US talk, CETA's issues are about food. But the thing is, unlike a lot of deal like Mercosur, CA/EU is very vast even excluding food, for BOTH sides of the talk. So I'm pretty sure we can figure things out.
- bryanlarsen 17d ago98% of CETA has been ratified. The last 2% is the hard part, but the 98% covers a lot of goods...
- jorblumesea 17d ago10 member countries including France and Italy have not ratified ceta, how is that 98%? it's hard to believe excluding france and italy gets you to most of the EU goods and services.
- bryanlarsen 17d ago98% of the goods listed in CETA are tariff free.
- jorblumesea 16d agosure but the most important piece, the ICS, is still frozen and will remain blocked indefinitely. what you have is just a provisionally agreed upon free trade agreement. It's a long way from its original goal. Also if a single member country doesn't ratify, it's pulling the plug on ceta. It's in a legal grey zone and will probably remain in that state forever, due to ICS being so controversial to EU member states. CETA isn't in a good place right now and it's yet another sign that EU doesn't want as deep economic integration as Canada leaders are selling. Canadian leadership is pushing hard and it makes sense, good for the common Canadian, but the EU is more skeptical and doesn't see the same value add. this is also the conclusion that the FT article came to, Canada isn't as lucrative of a trade partner as they are selling to the Canadian people.
- Sol- 17d agoI'm sorry, but nothing is going to happen. Canada and the EU made up an imaginary category for good vibes and to market some likely very limited cooperation in arms development or maybe research programs. We already have CETA and I doubt any "associate membership" will be more consequential like that. In two years this will have fizzled out like any other marketing blitzes by the EU (remember Gaia-X?). I say this as a disillusioned EU citizen. This institution doesn't have any ambition left.
- gizajob 17d agoIt certainly has the ambition to expand its power base and reduce its oversight.
- polycaster 17d agoThis is not even remotely related in any way to Gaia-X. The only connection is your marketing blitz label, which can be anything that involves public communications, really.
- ck2 17d agoWhat's the best estimate for US to recover from non-stop levels of stupid? It's at least a decade but now I'm starting to think two decades And the problem is since people have short memories there's going to be a Trump 2.0 doing a full speedrun back to destroying democracy as hard and as fast as possible, fueled by Heritage Foudation So we may be recovering every decade at this point I mean Bush plowed the economy into the ground plus stop-loss endless war and yet here we are again
- hedora 17d agoI have a litmus test for democrats. If they pass, it could dig out in a decade or two. If not, it is probably game over: Do you support pursuing criminal charges for current members of the executive branch and their counterparts in private industry? Do you support pursuing maximum sentences, including asset seizure and the death penalty? Do you support suspending or otherwise not honoring presidential pardons? Will you cooperate with ICCC warrants? If you think my litmus test is too harsh, consider the fact that the Bush family made its fortune by illegally selling to the Nazis, was caught literally organizing a military coup in the US, and was instrumental in ripping out a perfectly good national passenger train network. In response they got a slap on the wrist and used their illegal gains to control the white house. Twice.
- toasty228 17d ago> What's the best estimate for US to recover from non-stop levels of stupid? I think it'll get much worse before we can even hope it gets a tiny bit better. Politics are fucked, education is fucked, petrol is fucked, the stock market is extra fucked, morales are fucked, etc. So if you mean "when do we start winning like in the 80s", it's probably never, too many things are breaking down or on the verge of breaking down, things with way too much momentum to fix by simply getting the other side of the political spectrum in control for 4 years. Not even talking about China planning for the next 100 years when Trump can't even determine if he'll shit his pants in the next 15 minutes
- noir_lord 17d agoThe US is always going to be a large powerful and influential country, Geography and natural resources and a high education base ensure that. What it won't be is as influential as it was for a long time, if ever. The damage isn't a "Next President" problem, it's already a generational problem. The international rules/trade based order was predicated on both sides agreeing that those were the rules, when one side unilaterally decides to tear it up and then demand the same advantages they had before they tore it up, the other has to respond, We can't ignore it and hope the problem goes away. They chose to open Pandora's box on this one, the rest of us are just figuring out what that looks like going forwards.
- jackling 17d ago> "work, study and live where they want on either side of the Atlantic" Will the Canadian job market improve or suffer here? Does anyone know of any research that will determine if this would be beneficial for Canadians? Naively, I think it'll be harder to compete with Europeans for jobs.
- nolok 17d agoIt will definitely depend by work market, eg it's well known in France video game worker move to Quebec already.
- beached_whale 17d agoCanada has needed more workers but is suffering from a lack of affordable($675000 average when the average family makes <$110000) housing like many places with other costs rising too. The number of housing starts has never recovered from the huge downturn around 2010.
- firmretention 16d agoWe don't need more workers. This is a corporate lie to suppress wages. It's clear some of you haven't spoken to a new grad looking for a job in ages.
- beached_whale 16d agoI dont mean minimum wage. I mean skilled trades and highly educated. Who is going to build the homes we are build 1/2 to 2/4 what we did prior to 2010. Who is going to work the R&D roles when the Canadians are all working Wage suppression can be dealt with by making the wages for visa workers higher than some formula that takes local and national averages into account
- firmretention 16d agoThere's no labor shortage there either. Go look at the Canada trades/jobs subreddits. Go look at the experiences of new grads who can't find an entry level job that pays a decent wage. Go look at how many kids want to enter the trades but can't get anyone to take them on as an apprentice. Software developers, engineers, etc. Even people with experience are out of work for months. Skilled laborers are sitting around with nothing to do because nobody is building houses. Why do you think any Canadian grad who is able moves to the States? If we truly had such a dire labor shortage, surely they'd be able to work here and be paid well for it?
- triceratops 17d agoSort of a "meta" question about these announcements. I assume they already talk about them privately beforehand. Carney first made a speech seeking some kind of enhanced status within the EU. Then von der Leyen said basically "Yeah we'd love that". Now Carney says "Great, let's do it." It would be embarrassing if Carney's first speech had instead been met with silence. So how many steps ahead do they choreograph these announcements? Did Carney show a draft of his speech today to people in the EU last week? "This is where I'd like us to be at next week. What do you guys think?" Anyone who's worked in international diplomacy or UN-type institutions that would know this? I'm just interested in the mechanics of such an announcement.
- inhumantsar 17d agoCarney and his diplomats have been having high-level talks along these lines with a bunch of EU member states for the last few months at least. That's atypical even. WSJ quoted French diplomats as essentially saying, "this is moving very quickly all of a sudden". Carney and von der Leyen haven't really talked about what this would mean but it seems safe to assume that they (plus leaders of the major EU member states) have been talking about it, at least in broad strokes.
- fmajid 16d agoJacques Attali, former adviser to French president François Mitterrand, wrote about the behind-the-scenes work the "sherpas" do for their principals in his three-volume "Verbatim", which has been translated into English.
- rdm_blackhole 17d agoIts funny to read all the comments and finding both sides arguing that either is this is terrible thing or the best thing since slice bread and that basically no one has any ideas of what this new "associate membership" would entail.
- KyleSanderson 17d agoWhy did this get moderated off the front page.
- user00005 17d agoAre European retail banks going to be allowed to operate in Canada? Are the Canadians going to put quotas and tariffs on European dairy? Does Canada certify Airbus jets?
- attendant3446 16d agoIt's all over the news, but nobody really knows what an 'associate member' of the EU is
- b112 16d agoStrangely, I've heard this a lot, yet everyone describing it lays out their goals, and what they think it should be. And talks of working towards those goals. Nothing is mysterious here, it's just a new thing. We'll work it out, and once we do, we'll go from there. As Buckeroo Bonsai said, "No matter where you go, there you are!"
- niyikiza 16d agoTo be fair hardly anybody really knows what it means to be a regular member either.
- brimwats 13d agoseems like it's a relationship all parties want to define together & in conversation with each other. this sort of thing seems better to do slowly and openly rather than behind doors and try to force
- yubblegum 16d agoThis is a fascinatingly nuanced move by EU and Canada. Now we wait to see how US and UK react. From a geopolitical perspective this the official signal from Europe that they no longer buy the trope of 'Trump the loose canon' and now (finally) understand US intentions in securing the entirety of the Americas hemisphere [N. pole to S. pole, including Greenland]. The Canadian PM's speech was apparently rousing to the most delegates and (France24 hopefully reported) "most dismissed Trump's threats of cutting off all trade".
- etiennemarcel 16d agoIn my opinion it’s dead on arrival. Canadians don’t want the massive immigration this will bring from sluggish European economies. Europe won’t want Canadian agricultural imports. And what is this about associate members? I thought we Europeans made a point about memberships being all or nothing from now on (Euro, regulations, etc.) Let’s bring the UK back at this rate.
- philistine 16d agoI do not believe that once the ink dries on what the EU is willing to concede that the people in Canada would agree in a referendum. This reeks of being custom made to enrage one person in particular and give leeway for negotiations.
- soderfoo 16d agoExactly. Alot of this doesn't pass a basic smell test. It would take quite sometime to negotiate, draft, debate, and ratify any agreements. Nevermind the diplomatic tight rope the EU would need to walk internally. It's fanciful thinking to believe this is a slam dunk that could get done anytime soon.
- etiennemarcel 16d agoWe’ll settle for Erasmus and everybody will take it for a win. Meanwhile the ex will be jealous of the new girlfriend and rage on social media.
- surgical_fire 16d agoExcept Switzerland and EEA exist? The UK could absolutely pursue some form of association with the EU if it so desired, it doesn't need to be in the EU for increased cooperation. The problem is that the UK people overseeing brexit wanted very much to cherry-pick only what was advantageous for the UK only and cede on nothing that the bloc desired. As for Canada, we will have to wait and see. Is it a Switzerland style deal (an endless torrent of asterisks)? Is it something similar to EEA but lighter? Something that is more focused on trade and mutual defense and less on freedom of movement and financial ties? Probably the main advantage of the EU is that it is much stronger at negotiating these sorts of agreements than any of its individual countries would have been. It is a deal, both sides bring something to the table and try to negotiate what comes from that.
- jacobclaerhout 16d ago[flagged]