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Tim Cook Sold Out Steve Jobs (2025)
- youre-wrong3 1mo ago[dead]
- CGMthrowaway 1mo agoApple has not had an SVP of Industrial Design for 7 years, since Jony Ive left. This is why every phone is a copy of the last and there is no real product innovation anywhere
- ceejayoz 1mo agoCrocodiles haven't changed much in 200 million years. Maybe it's possible that a form factor is largely correct for its use case after a while? I'm inclined to see Apple Silicon as fairly innovative.
- gjvc 1mo ago> Maybe it's possible that a form factor is largely correct for its use case after a while? very much so -- same for UI components, which they keep changing for no good reason except to feel "fresh and new"
- andsoitis 1mo agoFresh and new is a feature. And it is one that affect purchase decisions and brand perception.
- fainpul 1mo ago"delightful"
- vrighter 1mo ago"yo we heard you like camera bumps so we put camera bumps on your camera bumps so you can camera bump while you camera bump" I wouldn't say they're an exact copy...
- CGMthrowaway 1mo ago>Crocodiles haven't changed much in 200 million years. Maybe it's possible that a form factor is largely correct Then why is Apple releasing a folding phone now?
- ceejayoz 1mo ago> Then why is Apple releasing a folding phone now? We'll see. I remember when the Apple Car was imminent, and it wouldn't be the first bullshit rumor in the Mac world. Hell, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPower_(Apple) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPower_(Apple) was officially announced.
- sbarre 1mo agoThat said one could argue that phones are now "solved" and the idea of iterating and changing just for the sake of changing is unwelcome. Much like laptops? I don't want my next phone to be something I need to figure out all over again. I want the buttons in the same place, the OS to work the same way.. My phone is just another thing in my daily life like my car or my coffee machine. The less I have to think about any of those things - vs. just using them and getting on with my day - the happier I am.
- walrus01 1mo agoA phone can only get so big, and there's only so many viable shapes and form factors. I don't know what more innovation anybody expects in a rectangular tablet form factor that can still fit into pockets and purposes. Folding phones are expensive and a gimmick so far and have not achieved much market share. There's advances to be had in cameras, battery life and other tech inside the rectangular slab, but in terms of innovating on the form factor, the practical reality of what people want to hold and put in their pockets will dictate the maximum size and form factor.
- FiddlyPack 1mo agoTbh I want my 3GS form factor back. That design was the "right" one imho, and we lost it due to market pressure for bigger screens and better cameras, when what we needed to do was keep the utility but largely stay off our screens.
- andsoitis 1mo agoBut they do keep evolving the iPhone and its functionality. You need taste and a great sense of user experience to do it well. Apple also sells more things than juts iPhones.
- 405nm 1mo agoyou can’t think of a single thing that could be better about the hardware and software experience of phones? not one?
- sbarre 1mo ago
- raverbashing 1mo agoYes they haven't shipped keyboards that break after a while for being too thin Ive has been working at other stuff, like building a Ferrari that looks more like a giant RC car
- mcntsh 1mo agothey've started to get a big bulge on the top-left of the device and no longer sit flat on a table. Oh and they popularized silicon cases that dont go in or out of pockets.
- applfanboysbgon 1mo ago> big bulge on the top-left of the device and no longer sit flat on a table Fucking hate this trend so much. My Pixel 8 is an absolute dogshit phone compared to my Pixel 2 for the same reason. Phones are giant now, impossible to use with one hand anymore, and slide off of fucking everything because they don't lie flat, and are uncomfortable to hold with how top-heavy they are too. I wish phone design would have stagnated, about 10 years ago. A phone's form factor did not need innovating! It was already perfect!
- qsera 1mo agoI don't get the markets obsession with big phones. May be size is a proxy for battery life...
- keyringlight 1mo agoDepends what they're used for, if it's for lightweight-demands mobile communications and simple tasks then I'd definitely agree. However the phone has become the personal computer for many and covers a broad range of tasks, let alone before you consider demanding users. If you've got one device for all your computing then you want something more capable, I think there's more scope for variation is when it's in conjunction with another device, mobile plus your choice of watch/tablet/laptop/desktop/etc. that doesn't necessarily have to be on your person or quickly accessible, task dependent.
- mcookly 1mo agoFor people who use the phone for everything, this is great. But I hope we will start to see at least some smaller options return to the market for those who just want a simple communication device / have small hands. I recently booted up an old Samsung S10, and the size is just chef's kiss.
- detourdog 1mo agoIndustrial Designer here and I believe Ive became too influential in areas. I believe a boring and consistent form factor is better than new models every year. This is what killed the USA auto-industry. Personally the iPhone 4 was a great form factor and I was glad for the reversion to that design. Minor tweaks and scaling for size is really all that is needed.
- mc32 1mo agoThe writer is juxta Steve’s bastard of a father’s status as a visa overstay to contrast with Trump’s policy vis a vis illegal immigration (which doesn’t differ much in practice from his lauded predecessors policies) yet Steve if he did not loathe his biological father in the least completely ignored his existence as much as he ignored the existence of his own bastard daughter. Yes Tim is not Steve. We all knew that and know that, so? It’s still the company that most respects its users’ privacy, which isn’t saying much but it respects it more than other companies with foreigners at the helm such as Microsoft and Google. Not that I think they’d be different if run by American born leadership. Bill nor Eric would not be better. It’s the state of affairs in the world today.
- cmiles8 1mo agoThe article is a bit disingenuous. Steve’s main claim to fame was Apple 2.0 when he brought the company back from the brink of bankruptcy. He had almost no choice but to take radical bet-the-farm bets as the status quo was the company goes bankrupt. Tim Cook inherited a company on an upward trajectory and kept it going. His core job was don’t $&@? it up, and at that he was very successful. Was Apple potentially less innovative during his tenure? Yeah probably, but it was stable and grew massively under his oversight, which was the job. Most shareholders that held their stock after Steve left are very happy with their returns since then.
- throwuxiytayq 1mo agoI think I, and maybe even Jobs, would be more interested in whether phoneholders are happy with the phones they’re holding.
- ang_cire 1mo agoConsidering he told them they were holding it wrong when they weren't happy with it, I doubt that.
- detourdog 1mo agoHe was correct that changing hand positions had a positive effect and a minor imposition. If they had recalled the phones I wouldn't have sent mine back the iPhone 4 was great and I was a satisfied customer. This was a long time ago and it is probably time to move on. https://news.macgasm.net/iphone-news/how-apple-fixed-antennagate/ https://news.macgasm.net/iphone-news/how-apple-fixed-antenna...
- daveoc64 1mo agoThat article and your memory glosses over the fact that Apple redesigned the antenna to fix the actual problem in later devices - the antenna was changed in the Verizon iPhone 4 (which came out later), as well as the iPhone 4S and all subsequent models.
- kvuj 1mo ago> I’m not an uncritical Steve Jobs fan. I know, from having worked closely with people who worked directly for Jobs for many years, that he could be a mercurial, and brutish, boss. That's a pretty big euphemism for Steve Jobs being a piece of shit. What I've realized throughout the years of working is that being able to work as a team is almost more important than your technical capacity. You can always become better in your field, but becoming a better human is a lot harder.
- walrus01 1mo agoI've repeatedly said here on HN that Steve Jobs was king of the assholes and a huge piece of shit, and been soundly flamed for it. A vast amount of first hand anecdotes of him being an asshole exist and are likely not fabrications by the people reporting them. And yet people think he's some sort of god like figure because apple made cool products.
- andsoitis 1mo agoYou can be a jerk and be brilliant at the products you create. One can admire the latter while criticize the former. Jobs revolutionized music and computing.
- walrus01 1mo agoAs a counter point some very boring individuals who are not jerks nor capable of forming a cult of personality have invented singularly iconic and widespread products which achieved great market share. One example would be Eugene Stoner and his design for the AR-15/M16.
- hnfong 1mo agoAs much as Steve Jobs was an asshole, at least he didn't invent tools whose only purpose is to kill people... Like, maybe find a better example?
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- nextstep 1mo ago2025. He’s right, Tim Cook is a coward and no better than the rest of the oligarchs who kissed the ring and played the game. But Anil also falls into this trap of believing the myth of Jobs over who he actually was. Steve Jobs was a Silicon Valley capitalist who took parts the hippie counterculture ethos and baked it into an image that sold well to consumers. He was not some revolutionary, he just successfully used the language of revolution to sell a better product than his competitors.
- josefritzishere 1mo agoThis is a great read. It accurately describes both the personality differences between Cook and Jobs but also the core of moral leadership. "Here is an idea: Apple could, rather than creating golden bribes for child sexual predators, actually send a message to its users explaining that it would like to continue providing value to its customers, and ask those customers for help making that case to their elected officials."
- popey 1mo agoPreviously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45258743 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45258743
- bantunes 1mo ago> There's no point in having fuck-you money in the bank if you never say "fuck you"! Absolutely right.
- conmod278 1mo agoGenerally people who have fu money don't want their fu money to be reduced by a fu amount. There is your answer.
- saejox 1mo agoA worse person does not make another good.
- knivets 1mo ago2025 Apple is a perfect representation of 2025 America.
- altmanaltman 1mo agoYes, Steve Jobs was such a fuck you to the establishment. He never had government contracts with NeXT. The article calls him a son of an immigrant five times as if that is a moral virtue for some reason. Dude was a pretty trash human being in reality but people keep seeing him as tech jesus. This article actually suggests Apple ask its customers to vote towards a particular political issue which is a hilarious take given Apple's size. They will not care if a Deamon from hell becomes the president, they will still negotiate and try to continue operations instead of becoming a political activist. Author is projecting their own political outlook as the only correct one and is again turning Steve Jobs into tech jesus without acknowledging historical facts and realities of thing. Furthmore, Tim Cook deserves a lot of criticism but not having a spine cannot be one of them because his role isnt to rage against the machine.
- mc32 1mo agoMoreover Steve did not recognize nor ever speak of his bastard father. Similarly to how he hardly recognized his own bastard daughter. Steve only spoke of his adoptive parents.
- embedding-shape 1mo ago> Furthmore, Tim Cook deserves a lot of criticism but not having a spine cannot be one of them because his role isnt to rage against the machine. Isn't Cook the guy who literally gave a gold statue to a sitting US president? I probably couldn't come up with a more spineless move even if I tried. Doesn't require a "rage against the machine" mindset to not intentionally go out of your way to participate in open and public corruption of politicians. Or am I remembering the wrong person here?
- thefz 1mo agoOh yeah Jobs was such an anarchist who stuck it to the man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
- BearOso 1mo agoIn Jobs's time, 2007-2011 there was still a lot of overall pushback against PRISM, and also from Apple. I remember reading that they reviewed and only ended up complying with 3 requests. It's not nothing, but Google and Microsoft were far more eager to offer up their data.
- thefz 1mo agoSo he stuck it to the man on occasion let's say. Not all the time. Remember that there are documented supply chain infiltrations with Apple's total compliance, that they don't conveniently tell about when running their "Apple is secure" ads
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- jfb 1mo agoThe real problem, to me, isn't that Cook sold out Jobs; he sold out his customers, by the increasing rents extracted by the App Store and the services division in general. I'm a long time Apple user, and the idea that ads have any place in my computers is appalling, but now they're in Maps, and they're in the OS as non-dismissible upsells, and I mean, Windows is right over there, all of this is unnecessary strategy taxation on what Apple does well (hardware and software).
- throwawayffffas 1mo agoThat was always the strategy, the whole apple ecosystem was always obtuse and closed off from compatibility with the rest of the computing world just to maximize rents. If they could, they would ship an apple version of the internet only available to apple devices.
- m0llusk 1mo agoThat isn't true. The original Apple Store proposal by Bertrand Serlet is available and it is pretty clearly driven by the need to polish the user experience of installing and managing applications. Being able to charge a significant premium was just a part of the picture and originally considered to be required to pay for the associated infrastructure of reviews and such.
- throwawayffffas 1mo agoI am not even talking about the apple store, i am talking about printers, cables and file systems in the 90s. Since the beginning of the company everything they made did not work with stuff from other manufacturers on purpose.
- naravara 1mo agoI don’t think there’s inherent virtue in zagging just because everyone else zags if zigging is better. There’s trade-offs, but in most cases the Apple call has tended to err on the side of ease of use and ease of access to the mass market at the expense of flexibility and versatility for tinkerers. It’s good for a market to have companies willing to make different sets of trade-offs to please different segments of the market rather than all herding around the preferences of a cluster of nerds. The real problem is that the rest of the industry has “Apple envy” and just copies everything they think they can get away with instead of making their own sets of trade-offs.
- helf 1mo ago[dead]
- arthurfirst 1mo agoImagine thinking there is an option but to kiss the ring and still be allowed to play or that there are even two sides. Imaging thinking it even matters what Tim cook or Trump do. Imagine thinking Tim Cook is anything but a stand in book keeper and stock promoter. Imagine thinking Trump is anything but a heel turn pro wrestler. Trump is bunkem for the masses and Tim Cook is irrelevant and a follower. Steve was a an idea guy. Tim was a seeker of efficiencies and consensus -- boring and common. I didn't buy one apple product during Tim's tenure but I still have my IIe and several old Macs converted to Linux. Genius is often regarded as brutish or mean by lesser people. Your feelings on it do not matter.
- newAccount2025 1mo ago2025-09 would be helpful context for the article link
- ezekiel68 1mo agoSo many things that could be said about this. For one -- I truly enjoyed the accidental repetition in the article that marked the effort as likely not aided too much by AI. But I couldn't help, most of the way through it, to crystalize the respone, "How did we get the idea Tim Cook was chosen because he was likely to be much like Steve Jobs?" Honestly, having watched the Steve Jobs commencement address several times, I kept going back to his declaration that "Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new."
- comrade1234 1mo agoI've seen the other reality and two words: no notch.
- not-so-darkstar 1mo agohe sure does like talking about steve jobs
- 737min 1mo agoCrazy to talk about selling out when the real selling out isnt to the American government, but to the Chinese Communist government. Plenty of Aplle photops with actual dictators. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/23/opinion/apple-tim-cook-outsourcing-china.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/23/opinion/apple-tim-cook-ou...
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- fortran77 1mo ago> Steve Jobs was, amongst many other things, the biological son of an unmarried Syrian immigrant who was in the United States on a student visa, and he grew up to be a person who had a really good sense of when to say “fuck you" to the man. What an odd statement. Steve Jobs didn't know his biological parents until he was well into adulthood. And if you're going to bring up his biological father, who he wanted little to do with, why ignore his biological mother, Joanne Carole Schieble? According to the NY Times, "Steve Jobs developed a relationship with his biological mother, Joanne Schieble [Simpson], while firmly declining a relationship with his biological father, Abdulfattah “John” Jandali." https://archive.nytimes.com/bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/25/more-back-story-on-steve-jobss-biological-father/ https://archive.nytimes.com/bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/2...
- jeromegv 1mo agoRegardless, he wouldn't be in America without immigration. That's the point.
- fortran77 1mo agoNeither would I. What’s your point?
- syspec 1mo agoAgreed, there's zero connection to his biological fathers story and how he grew up. The student visa thing is even more bizzare, it's just a bunch of incongruent sentences
- fortran77 1mo agoAnd Andy Grove was himself an immigrant, as is Jensen Huang of NVidia. Bezos’ father was born in Cuba. I’d bet he’d never point this out.
- gwbas1c 1mo agoBut, don't forget that Jobs frequented his biological father's restaurant and tipped well. His biological father knew Steve as a customer and didn't learn the truth until after Steve's death.
- voidUpdate 1mo ago> "just one generation after IBM had sold its mainframe computers to the Nazis, when that company provided the numbers that would be inked onto the wrists of the prisoners held in concentration camps" IBM was selling mainframe computers before 1945? That's impressive, since ENIAC, the supposed first general purpose computer, was invented in that year
- NateEag 1mo agoThey were not, obviously. However, there is very good evidence that IBM did sell calculation and bookkeeping hardware to Nazi Germany, and that the Nazis used it to organize the Holocaust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
- alsetmusic 1mo agoJohn Ternus has been CEO of Apple for about six hours (Pacific Time / California time zone). I have optimism. The head of hardware took over. If anyone is a product person, it might be the guy making their hardware shine. Where Apple has been falling down is software. Vertical integration of hardware and software is their bread and butter, so I have to think he appreciates the software layer in ways that Cook (a business guy) is unable to appreciate. Wow, I really hope so. This could be a nice resurgence of quality coming up. I really hope I'm right. I mean, a guy with an engineering degree is gonna be in charge. That's not Steve, who didn't earn a degree but had a deep product sense. But it's very different from Tim, who has no computer-nerd inside.
- VCFundedGenYer 1mo agoSatya Nadella was an engineer CEO for the first few years at MS before he became completely AI lobotomized requiring literally all of his peons to do his work for him while he makes weird blog posts about a reality that doesn't exist. If Ternus doesn't fall into that trap, he'll be great.
- brazukadev 1mo ago> requiring literally all of his peons to do his work for him while he makes weird blog posts about a reality that doesn't exist. And also being a supporting character at podcasts: https://youtu.be/WEnBCfzsgyE?t=95 https://youtu.be/WEnBCfzsgyE?t=95
- BearOso 1mo agoHe had a kind of decent plan to improve things, but when AI popped up he panicked and went crazy. Same thing happened to Zuckerberg, who abandoned his VR crap and dumped into AI at a massive cost. The AI companies' marketing plan, FOMO, worked--just on themselves and competitors.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 1mo agoMan, people here are delusional. You think the purpose of a CEO, especially in a multi-trillion dollar company, is to be _the_ product guy? Everyone here is like “Jobs would have done this would have done that”, but the truth is he never lived long enough to turn Apple into the profitable and, mind you, financially resilient giant that it is today. It’s all idolatrous speculation, meanwhile Tim Cook has actually put in the work.
- raffael_de 1mo agohot take: tim cook could sell out apple only because google sold out android. it's like everybody is selling each other and their grandmas out these days.
- jeffgreco 1mo agoAgreed. Same thing on desktop: Apple is pulling Windows-style stuff like putting ads in the OS and forcibly bundling software (just try deleting News.app on MacOS) only because Windows has meanwhile reached even lower lows.
- gnuplustoejam 1mo agoBill Burr has the only reasonable take on Steve Jobs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3s-qZsjK8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3s-qZsjK8I
- ProllyInfamous 1mo agoIs this the bit where he talks about Steve Jobs getting onto several states' organ-transplant registries (simultaneously) so he could eventually "cut the line," using trafficked Tennessee bodyparts, to get his replacement liver installed?
- intev 1mo agosource re: "trafficked Tennessee bodyparts"?
- ProllyInfamous 1mo agoWhat I meant was Jobs paid to buy his way to the front of wait-lines, in states he was non-resident (including Tennessee), for a replacement body part (liver); every Tennessean he eventually $"cut"$ had to wait longer (or die) for their turns to receive transplants. ---- Jobs died while I worked for Texas' body farm... his "liver line cutting" was big news; my own institution eventually found itself in an unrelated (and much bigger!) bodyparts trafficking scandal (look up "selling Texas bodyparts scandal" circa 2020) [†]. There's lots of money in used bodyparts. To be quite literal: the majority of Americans are worth more dead than alive (considering 70%+ live paycheck-to-paycheck)... [†] I am still donating my own body to the accused institution, UNT – I hope an equally-sick-fuck gets me =P
- endemic 1mo agoCan you please summarize? I can't handle Burr's strident delivery for more than a few seconds.
- throwawayffffas 1mo ago> most of the things people attribute to him seem like guesses about a guy who was very hard to predict and often inconsistent. The author is doing the same. Personal background has minimal impact in these kind of decisions. Policy is about what happens to other people for politicians (and billionaires). It made sense for apple to suck up, in order to avoid vindictiveness and extract benefits. If they get super lucky, the tide turns and they keep going as if nothing happended a couple of trillion dollars richer. If they are less lucky things get more authoritarian, they keep most of their autonomy extract more benefits, and dear leader keeps their balls in a small box on his desk. If they get unlucky, the mercurial dear leader decides he is done with them, and their companies get broken up at best, or they fall out of windows down the road. We have seen the last scenario play out in Russia, and the second one play out in China. Taking a stand and calling out what's happening might be the decent thing to do, but gets them nothing. This of course only applies to billionaires running huge companies, everyone else is pretty much better of making a stand.
- t43562 1mo agoThe best way to make a stand for them is to use their money to fund education.
- Marciplan 1mo agoanil sold out stackoverflow
- speedbird 1mo ago“Mainframes”
- dolmen 1mo agoQuote: > There's no point in having fuck-you money in the bank if you never say "fuck you"!
- 1239176129 1mo agoEarly Apple hardware was horrible and only for fanboys with a Steve Jobs messiah complex. Tim Cook ordered the production of decent hardware and pretty impressive ARM processors. Jobs is the son of an immigrant? So is Kash Patel. I do find the submissiveness of tech CEOs towards Trump ridiculous, especially since they pretended to be woke under Biden. Now corporate fascism has been unmasked. Better don't forget if a Democrat wins in 2028 and the CEOs are "woke" again. But singling out Cook? Really?
- VCFundedGenYer 1mo agoNah. Cook was simply too weak to resist enshittification. He was just another CEO. Steve Jobs was a sociopath and an absolutely terrible leader himself, but he was a different kind of terrible.
- anArbitraryOne 1mo agoI'm glad the abominable child sexual predators were mentioned. Poor Aisha bint Abi Bakr
- detourdog 1mo agoTotally off topic. I think it's important to point out that this is the first planned CEO transition at Apple. Every other CEO was fired or died.
- lucky_cloud 1mo agoJobs resigned six weeks before he died.
- dzonga 1mo agoyou can blame Tim Cook for other things - but giving trump that useless statue - you can admire Tim Cook for his shrewdness & political capacity. he knew he was facing an incompetent petty adversary. so instead of preserving his ego - he damaged his instead of damaging Apple itself. that's a martyr like sacrifice. has Tim Cook put company profits over the customer - yes. but has Tim Cook preserved apple's value & position yes when it could have been severely damaged by trump, YES.
- LatencyKills 1mo agoAs someone who spent half their career at Apple, I can't even begin to tell you how ridiculous that sentiment is. You won't find Apple employees who agree with you. It was infinitely embarrassing to see Tim bend over for a fascist asshole. Apple is now in the "bowed to Trump" group. I will be glad when the Tim Cook era is over for good.
- insane_dreamer 1mo agoyou think the next CEO will be any different? the board wouldn't have elevated him to that position unless he was willing to kowtow to trump when needed
- LatencyKills 1mo agoSigh... I spent over a decade at Apple. Tim was given a very long leash. So no, I don't think Ternus will give Trump a gold "You're a good boy!" trophy. As I said, that was probably one of the most embarrassing things an Apple employee has ever done. Most of the people I know who are still at Apple despise Tim. Also, you might want to do a little research on the current board members.
- insane_dreamer 1mo agoI hope you're right! But that would be a significant break with the "kiss the ring and enjoy the protection" attitude that every other major tech company has taken
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- gwbas1c 1mo agoFor those who want to criticize Tim Cook / Apple for working with Trump: I suggest reading "Anne Frank Remembered: The Story of the Woman Who Helped to Hide the Frank Family". It's an autobiographical account from Miep Gies; centering around her experience hiding the Frank family. The critical point is that there are points where she and her husband worked with Nazis, and where Otto Frank even justified one of his employees joining the Nazi party. To paraphrase, (because it's been a few years since I read the book and I don't have time to look up the text,) After the Franks were arrested, Meip (who hid the Franks) biked to a Nazi base where a sympathetic soldier fed her. (She was starving.) The soldier kept her in a Nazi prison overnight as a "fake prisoner" because she became too sick to bike home. Otto Frank called one of his Nazi friends a "Good Man" who (paraphrasing) probably joined the Nazi party because he needed to find business opportunities. (Again, to survive)
- user00005 1mo agoI did a DDG search for "apple advertising". The summary under the page link says: > Reach customers where only Apple Ads can take you ads.apple.com clearly promotes exclusive access to advertise to Apple users on Apple devices.
- iJohnDoe 1mo ago[dead]