7 ms·

At this point the barrier for me to install an app is pretty high. If you're going to needlessly gate certain functions behind an app that work on a desktop bro

• noir_lord 1mo ago
  Indeed, I've no interest in native apps to do something that can be done in a web app and if you don't let me do it in a web app I'll bounce and either find someone who can or do without unless there is a seriously compelling use case (I'm not that dogmatic). As a result the only native apps I use on my phone are Kindle, Authy and Firefox because I trust Firefox to prevent apps doing a lot of the sketchy shit locally a lot more than I trust an app/the host OS to do so.
  • em3rgent0rdr 1mo ago
    > "do something that can be done in a web app" I'll bite. What important features can only be done in an "app" but not a web app nowadays?
    • edent 1mo ago
      NFC reading is one. That's why lots of Governments publish apps - it's a reliable way to check your passport if you need a visa etc. It might be coming to the web - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_NFC_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_NFC_API
      • cjrp 1mo ago
        Do they require it though? I've used a few, but it's always been a convenience thing to use the NFC-scanning app; the alternative is just typing in the details manually.
        • edent 1mo ago
          Yes. It offers cryptographic proof that you physically have the passport with you. It also gets a digital copy of the photo and other biometrics held on the NFC chip. From a user point of view it reduces the number of typos entered.
        • troyjfarrell 1mo ago
          Kazakhstan has an app (QazETA) for its electronic travel authorization, which is required for many passport holders who want to enter under the visa-free regime. (Perhaps it is not strictly required as one could apply for a visa instead.) Somewhat confusingly, the iOS App Store description [0] of the app says that it is not a government app, while the rest of the internet and Kazakh government sites say that it is the official government app for the purpose of applying for the ETA. [0]: https://apps.apple.com/app/id6748705452 https://apps.apple.com/app/id6748705452
    • earthnail 1mo ago
      Realtime stuff. Audio, video etc, games. Apps with a large user library (like the Photos app) that should work offline.
      • em3rgent0rdr 1mo ago
        Right. Of course there is some overhead for using WebGL vs native OpenGL calls, but I think that's only noticeable for AAA games. Web audio's extra latency does make it undesirable only for things that require quick response, like realtime synths and maybe DAWs. Regarding libraries, I wonder if maybe there could be a cacheable package manager system for distributing wasm libraries to webapps.
    • joshuakcockrell 1mo ago
      It’s also about friction. No one wants to troubleshoot a card decline by logging into their mobile browser bank account in checkout at the grocery store.
      • nickburns 1mo ago
        You mean some kind of perceived personal convenience through the uneven-handed profit of others and at the expense of everyone else. Trying to check why your card was declined at a checkout—while still standing at said checkout? Troubleshooting "PIN issues" (meaning your bad)? Is everyone still standing behind you at this point? LOL. Exactly.
      • ulyssys 1mo ago
        > “Just log into your bank account on the mobile web browser” is a pretty clunky way to see why your card declined. But that's because the user experience as designed is more hostile or not otherwise accounting for mobile use--right? Or are you saying there is a limit to the web platform's ability to reduce friction?
      • 4chandaily 1mo ago
        My credit card doesn't need me to lock/unlock it, doesn't require I have a phone with me, and certainly doesn't require an app. The last thing I ever would want is for the people in charge of "apps" to have access to my finances. All you are doing is creating another layer where something is allowed to tell you "No". Why would you choose this?
        • freedomben 1mo ago
          Right, and I can't remember the last time the battery in my credit card died or needed recharging. Phone has died plenty of times when I needed it
      • vel0city 1mo ago
        No one wants to troubleshoot a card decline by having to download and install a 700MB bank app in checkout at the grocery store either. Personally I'll take the browser login every time in that situation!
    • dmayle 1mo ago
      A ton of features work only or better on app: - anything privacy sensitive - anything processing intense (using optimized binaries) - widgets - camera and audio based features *can* work, but are more finicky (or outright broken on ios) - local storage (exists in web app, short lifetimes on web site) - performance/latency sensitive work - (I'm less familiar, but probably local sensors, like gps and acceleration)
      • nickburns 1mo ago
        [flagged]
      • rcxdude 1mo ago
        It's a shrinking area: You can get GPS, accelerometer, etc inputs from a web app nowadays. From my own experience the main areas that are tricky are related to automatically finding and connecting to devices: you can do bluetooth at least, but there's things an app can do with wifi and local connection protocols you can't easily do with a web app.
      • reaperducer 1mo ago
        anything privacy sensitive You've got that backwards. Web is more private than an app. Every regulated healthcare company has a web site. None require an "app."
        • willtemperley 1mo ago
          It depends. Truly working offline, which is as private as it gets in many scenarios, isn’t really feasible with web apps.
          • reaperducer 1mo ago
            You could also work in a windowless steel box inside a cave at the top of a mountain, if you really want to move the goalposts.
            • 1mo ago
  • carlosjobim 1mo ago
    A real native app practically always has better performance than web apps. And your data is on your machine. And it can integrate with the operating system. And you can do work offline. And performance saves battery. A web app is almost never better.
    • freedomben 1mo ago
      > And your data is on your machine. Not really true anymore, especially on mobile. Plus the privacy invading abilities of native are much higher
      • carlosjobim 1mo ago
        With a native app your data can be on your machine (or not, or both). With a web app it can't be on your machine. > Plus the privacy invading abilities of native are much higher Your privacy is already completely invaded if your data is in the cloud, as it has to be with web apps.
    • dspillett 1mo ago
      True for genuine native apps, but most apps these days are just wrappers around web apps so you get none of the benefits of a true native app while also losing some of the benefits of a web app.
• goosejuice 1mo ago
  I wish everyone thought like this. Unfortunately the average user demands an app and thinks they have nothing to hide.
  • pbhjpbhj 1mo ago
    I think the average user doesn't know the app is there to circumvent tracking protections in browsers and doesn't realise the app is most likely just a web page in a wrapper. I was at a car park in UK and you didn't have to install an app, just scan the QR to go to the web page, simple payment. Sadly they then messed it all up by not offering payment through normal services.
    • GJim 1mo ago
      > just scan the QR Lord no! Scanning a random QR code.... where is the worst it will take you? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrpknqpgzlo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrpknqpgzlo
      • ryandrake 1mo ago
        Yea a QR code is only marginally better than requiring an app. I shouldn't need a goddamn smartphone to conduct business and live in society!
      • gtufano 1mo ago
        The actual reality is that it's impossible to have people go to a web site from a physical ad/offer/thing without using a QR (or paying Google). Google (and friends) managed to hide the URL almost totally, people don't even know that you can go somewhere without searching on google. So the options are: paying google to have your name point to you (an expensive choice depending on the actual name) or use a QR. Weirdly enough people uses QRs this way. I think the restaurants/bars menus after the pandemic only digital via QR opened this way (again, it was trendy also many years ago).
        • jknoepfler 1mo ago
• mapontosevenths 1mo ago
  If your app is just a webpage that forces me to use an app just so you can spy on me I just won't use your product. I've switched brokers over it, I swapped banks, I stopped shopping at certain stores. I'm done. The only say I have is in how I spend my money. Those companies won't get any of mine if I can help it. I am the customer, not the product dammit.
  • ethersteeds 1mo ago
    Who are the hall of shame brokers?
  • aljgz 1mo ago
    > The only say I have is in how I spend my money. This. I get Frame.work and install Fedora. Use Firefox for everything possible. Once my current phone dies, I'll get a Fair phone, Motorola, or whatever gives me control. Can't complain if I keep choosing hostile products for some convenience
    • steezeburger 1mo ago
      > Can't complain if I keep choosing hostile products for some convenience Uh, yeah you can.
      • jasonvorhe 1mo ago
        Especially if they're actively engaged in making it more and more difficult to escape their platforms: Google force-doxxing developers soon, banks & other charlatans not working on GrapheneOS because sEcUrItY, the list goes on. Most people using this sort of rhetoric probably don't like black kids working in mines and yet they still use devices or cars built off of that produce.
  • sroussey 1mo ago
    Twitter is the worst. You go to a page and scroll down and it banners a beater in the app thing and you can’t dismiss it. You either get the app or close the tab. Close the tab.
• deaton 1mo ago
  Theres a gym I work out at, and that I have been going to for nearly a year now, and they have an app you can use to check in, schedule classes, whatever. I don't actually know because I never downloaded the app, I just use my phone number to check in every time I go. I don't want more apps on my phone, not for the gym, not for fast food, maybe my bank and the apps I need to communicate with friends and family, but the majority of it is pointless bloat they push on you for no good reason.
  • bluedino 1mo ago
    I took a picture of my keychain tag, set the date of it to my membership expiration date, and then scan that picture my phone when I go in
  • dpb001 1mo ago
    I’m living in peak appification at my gym. It’s one of those 24x7 places and an app is required to unlock the door. I find it amusing that part of the installation process requires me to deny always-on location sharing - why would I need the app to know my location when I’m not at the door?
    • avidiax 1mo ago
      > amusing You should find it insulting that they are likely selling that location data, not even to the highest bidder, but to a data broker that resells that data to anyone that will buy it for any price they'll pay.
      • inigyou 1mo ago
        Yes, this is standard practice in the app industry. I guarantee every app outside of f-droid that has location access is tracking you 24/7 and selling the log.
• pj_mukh 1mo ago
  The flip side is: I have an Audioguide app with reams of fancy of AI features. Even a basic non-AI one is we use GPS in the background to auto-trigger when you approach certain checkpoints on your tour, and we don't want you staring or constantly manually fiddling with the phone when you're on a tour in a neighborhood. This is all stuff just not possible with the web app I get it, "I'm just traveling, why do I need to download an app which will be useless when I'm done traveling". Just delete it then, takes two steps! Our reviews between our Web App and iOS app are like 2 sigma apart. Un-intuitively, our web app users are out fiddling with the app 2-3x more than our iOS app.
  • dingaling 1mo ago
    Sounds like gratuitous over-use of technology. Please just put placards on your exhibits, then I can take as long ( or as quickly ) as I need to digest the info. People can then use their phone to translate into other languages, if needed.
    • pj_mukh 1mo ago
      No need to litigate this again, digital audioguides are now 20-25 year old technology and very popular.
    • thewebguyd 1mo ago
      > gratuitous over-use of technology. That describes silicon valley tech culture to a tee.
  • sleepybrett 1mo ago
    location services are available to web browsers on pretty much all consumer platforms
    • pj_mukh 1mo ago
      Not persistently, the user has to constantly bring the phone up and re-enable, which as you can imagine gets really annoying really quickly.
• LPisGood 1mo ago
  What really grinds my gears is when the app is a _broken_ version of the website. I find the app really expects you to be on the happy path in a way the website does not. Uhaul is a great example of this. The app looks a little better on mobile, but if you don’t make an account and search by reservation ID, all features related to things like extending a reservation time are nonfunctional. I have to go to the mobile site which looks bad and has poor navigation, trying to hijack my session and redirect me to the app, but at least it works.
  • FatherOfCurses 1mo ago
    UHaul is the only app I've ever encountered that is less efficient than talking to a human being behind a counter. I have tried multiple times to pick up a reservation via the app and it has taken so long or failed at some point that I had to walk into the store anyway. And it wants a photo of my license EVERY GODDAMN TIME. And no I can't store a photo of my license on my phone and just upload it - it has to take a photo directly. And boy does it not like to take photos in bright sunlight. You know, when I'm outside in a parking lot beside a white truck.
    • LPisGood 1mo ago
      Their scheduling software is also blatantly broken. I understand the difficulty in monitoring a large distributed fleet, but their software loves to say trucks are unavailable where a quick phone call reveals they can accommodate the exact request.
    • dublin 1mo ago
      That's funny, I've NEVER, not even once, encountered ANY app from any company, in any business, that is easier or more efficient than talking to a human being behind a counter. (So long as the human behind the counter is not also hamstrung by dreadful Indian crapware...) Seriously, like most people, I have dozens of apps on my phone, forced on me by various needs. The ONLY one that makes anything easier or better is my password manager, which I have to have to safely keep and lookup the logins and passwords for all the damn apps...
• nunez 1mo ago
  100% same. So many apps are just a WebView vessel for Crashlytics and Sentry and Dog knows how much more tracking. (My phone is always VPNed into my home network which has DNS-level ad and tracker blocking. This doesn't cover all the bases though.) Some, like Home Depot, have websites that are terrible and battery-draining enough to make the app nominally useful by comparison.
  • 4chandaily 1mo ago
    >Some, like Home Depot, have websites that are terrible and battery-draining enough to make the app nominally useful by comparison. I don't take this as a signal to install the app. It is a signal to avoid the store. They clearly don't feel like they need to work to gain your business, and instead take it for granted. You can see this indicated by their actions - they clearly feel that it is more profitable to inconvenience you for a token amount of tracking data than to serve your needs. Why continue to use them?
    • mikepurvis 1mo ago
      There are a lot of businesses that have a semi-captive hold on a market. Like a recent example was I drove my daughter and I to a stage play, and to pay for street parking I had to install an app, make an account, and add a credit card. A thing that should have been scan the QR code and click one button to mobile pay became a five minute ordeal. In theory we could have gotten back in the car and looked for parking elsewhere but the curtain was in 30 minutes and who's to say they didn't have a contract with the city that covered all the parking? Overall a very hostile experience and I was annoyed about how little I felt I had a choice in it.
      • inigyou 1mo ago
        It should have been put coins in a slot.
        • mikepurvis 1mo ago
          Ehh maybe. I mean, it was a three hour show and I don't carry coins any more. So that would have been ATM -> go to a store and break a twenty -> put in a few bucks -> remember to go out at intermission and put in more money. Paying by phone is a step up from that old world; I just want it to be one tap, not a whole sequence that tries to upsell me on a monthly pass or establishing an in-app "parking wallet" or whatever.
• safety1st 1mo ago
  If you use Android, honestly try Fdroid. It's great. I mean there are obviously huge gaps, you're not going to find banking apps, and there's going to be less polish in a lot of cases. BUT NONE OF THE APPS ARE EVIL. Fdroid harbors the paradise we imagined in the early days where we just had these little computers in our pockets and didn't have to worry that everything on them was drowning in ads, scams and surveillance. So if I do think I might want or need an app I immediately go and check on Fdroid. I can install apps from there without fear. If Fdroid doesn't have what I need, most likely I'm just tapping out. I won't use my phone. I barely use it these days when I'm not on the go anyway.
  • princevegeta89 1mo ago
    On Android, especially the most recent versions, the archive functionality for apps has been a lifesaver. It basically packs apps into a specific format, keeps their entire state, and stores it on the disk. This also completely stops the app from running in the background and any other functionality that we don't need. When we need to access the app again, we just have to restore it, which actually downloads the app and puts the app data back into it. It brings us back to exactly where we were before. I do this to a lot of my apps these days, and it works very well. When we look at it, apps are nothing but a logged-in state for services that makes it easy to access them. On a typical web browser, you would have to keep logging in every now and then. Apps have a more persistent logged-in session that sometimes lasts forever as well.
• deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
• bambax 1mo ago
  When an app asks you to login again almost every day, it's infuriating; an app should remember you indefinitely! I try to never use apps anyway, because adblocking on them is hard or impossible (which is the reason they exist in the first place).
• swed420 1mo ago
  Then prepare to pay 150% for that enshitified Big Mac!
• spicyjpeg 1mo ago
  A particularly worrying trend that keeps spreading is the one of restricting significant amounts of (often non-financial) functionality to the apps only, gated behind your phone passing device integrity checks, in what seems to be a poorly thought out attempt at blocking all forms of scraping and automation (AI or not). The worst offender right now is probably Twitter, which alongside the recent Nitter cease-and-desist now appears to require client integrity on all logged out access.
  • inigyou 1mo ago
    You can just make an account on a phone and give the login info to Nitter (your own instance), it still works.
• reaperducer 1mo ago
  If you're going to needlessly gate certain functions behind an app that work on a desktop browser (or could work in-browser), then I just won't use those functions. Amusingly, I know of a very large hospital chain that has it the other way around. The app version is the most limited. Mobile web has some more options. But if you want everything, that's desktop only. Except for scheduled ordering from the coffee shops or placing in-patient meal orders. Those require an app. Except with the meal app, you get more menu choices from the web version. Modern tech is a mess.
• pydry 1mo ago
  we need better apps to bypass apps and user hostile websites. more newpipes and noras.
• tsylba 1mo ago
  I am the same, the sad reality is that companies don't (really) aim to change our (old folk tech peoples) behavior, they are aiming to make a new normal for the next generation of consumers.
• DerSaidin 1mo ago
  Many HN users probably share this distaste for apps that should be websites, but I don't think this is true for the general population. In addition to choosing not to use needless apps, some HN users here might have the opportunity for a stronger vote: refuse to (or at very least push back on) develop an app that could be a website.
• onetrickwolf 1mo ago
  I am the same way but sadly I think average people seem to be the opposite. I’ve seen people asked to do something on some site and their instinct is to go straight to the App Store and search the site there vs using their web browser.
• gpvos 1mo ago
  The problem is that my bank is starting to do this, and for things I actually use. I am considering changing banks because of this, but it's a big step.
• mcv 1mo ago
  Yeah, so many sites bug me to install their app just to read their web page. I'm not going to install every app, so just make the website usable. LinkedIn, Instagram, too many others to list them all. I'd rather not use them at all than install their app.
• PaulHoule 1mo ago
  I also have the assumption that apps are shoddily coded. Whenever I go to the App Store I am looking for a specific app because my assumption is that a random app I find is going to be useless and this goes 10x if the app is promoted with paid advertisement. Personally I wish the app store was like the way Google's home page was in 1999 -- the search functionality is the only thing I care about and they hide it in the middle of a lot of not-so-distracting fluff because I don't have the slightest interest in it.
• jasonvorhe 1mo ago
  Interesting. I limit myself to apps from zapstore.dev and I enjoy playing with new apps. The issue with most commercial / mainstream apps for me is that they're riddled with ads, engagement nonsense, lack quality, often use ugly per default frameworks, force sign-up before use, request all sorts of permissions or come bundled with SDKs I don't trust.
• ball_of_lint 1mo ago
  In the case of Reddit, Instagram, X, etc. Often those 'certain functions' are the whole site/app itself. Which is pushing me to not use them at all.
• ericjmorey 1mo ago
  If you intend to have a broad userbase, you must prioritize mobile apps. The general public prefers them. I don't like it, but that's the current landscape.
• drnick1 1mo ago
  > At this point the barrier for me to install an app is pretty high. For me, the bar hasn't moved: I will not install any app that isn't a general purpose, open source utility. If something cannot be done in the browser, I will do without it.
• pull_my_finger 1mo ago
  Spotify comes to mind immediately. Of all things, they wall off your saved music - premium doesn't matter. There is literally no reason to prevent web app users from accessing what is essentially just another playlist, other than to coerce the native app adoption.
• subarctic 1mo ago
  I used to feel similarly but recently i started defaulting to installing apps more, and it's been way better for my quality of life lol. They just tend to work way better. There are some exceptions though, usually for apps that have ads that make them too annoying to use or that require you to have an account that I don't want to create / don't want to sign in with. E.g. youtube, reddit