8 ms·

Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

284 points by zdw 1mo ago

insane_dreamer 1mo ago
> The cards have no battery and aren’t self-powered in any way. Instead, the reader on the gate emits an electromagnetic field that powers the card just long enough to complete the transaction. Brillant!
- trescenzi 1mo ago
  This is how all passive RFID works. It's pretty cool. There's even systems that are both passive and active. For example, as a Disney adult, I'm familiar with their magic bands which do have a battery but also work passively. For tying ride photos automatically to you the battery matters because you're either moving too fast or are too far from the camera for passive to be consistently effective. But for simply using it as payment or a ticket you're pressing the device up against a reader and no matter how old the battery is it'll continue working.
  - dfox 1mo ago
    At a first glance passive RFID would be a perfect match for ride photos, the whole mechanism is ridiculously fast so speed of the ride would not matter much (the technology works at highway speeds just fine) and can work over ~15 meters. But there are two somewhat significant issues with the radio layer in this application: the geometry of tag antenna is somewhat critical (making it into a band would be problematic) and the back scatter is attenuated by salt water blobs (ie. people) almost perfectly.
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
- reaperducer 1mo ago
  > The cards have no battery and aren’t self-powered in any way. Instead, the reader on the gate emits an electromagnetic field that powers the card just long enough to complete the transaction. Brillant! AT&T showed this in television commercials back in the 1980's. "Can you go through a toll booth without stopping? You will. And the company that will bring it to you is AT&T."
  - toast0 1mo ago
    The 90s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Will https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Will Lots of those things happened (maybe not faxing from the beach), but AT&T didn't bring us very many of them.
jjice 1mo ago
Suica was excellent when I had the chance to use it. I used the Apple Pay version and it worked flawlessly. I think I do prefer what I'm seeing more and more in the US with a tap-to-pay so I don't have to learn a new system, but Suica was so universal that I really couldn't complain. Makes sense especially with the larger diversity of digital payment methods and cash prevalence in Japan.
- TulliusCicero 1mo ago
  The really nice advantage of Suica is its speed. Yeah credit card tap to pay is alright, but it's relatively slow, taking multiple seconds. Now QR code payment seems to be taking off in Japan, but unfortunately you can't access it as a tourist.
  - Tor3 1mo ago
    There are several types of QR code payments getting introduced, so it would be interesting to know the specifics. I'm only aware of using a QR code for Shinkansen tickets, which is something I have used and something a tourist can use as well. And then there's the new tickets slowly getting introduced in some areas, where the paper ticket has a QR code. I've not seen those yet, but it sounds like just an ordinary ticket otherwise.
    - TulliusCicero 1mo ago
      I mean general QR code payments as opposed to QR codes on tickets. First noticed them at convenience stores, but vending machines have them too, and I think some restaurants.
      - Tor3 1mo ago
        When you mention it I may have seen that too. I'll investigate when I get back again. Thanks!
  - crote 1mo ago
    Credit card tap-to-pay doesn't have to be slow. The transaction could be done asynchronously, and some payment schemes even explicitly classify transit transactions as impossible-to-fail and will ignore things like overdraft limits. Similarly, it could also be implemented via a rolling payment hold loop. Unattended petrol stations do something similar: you first insert the card to authorize a hold (say $200), then fill up the car, then finalize the transaction - at which point your $50 bill is actually deducted and the hold on the remaining $150 is released. Transit could do the same, with only the very first transaction being slow, and each terminal containing a list of pre-authorized cards.
kubb 1mo ago
One thing that surprised me was that certain ramen and soba shops didn’t accept cards at all and the only non-cash payment option was the IC card.
- Tor3 1mo ago
  An Indian curry restaurant in "my" local Aeon only accepts PayPay or cash and that's it, so you get all kinds. Other than that I've been able to use my Suica card in surprising places.
trzy 1mo ago
I still have my Passmo card from my very first visit to Japan in 2008. I went back in 2018 and it still worked and had a balance. I used it as recently as 2025. Pretty cool!
- jacobgkau 1mo ago
  It's a bit of a shame that the long-term "wow" factor has been somewhat negated by the new tourist cards that expire after four weeks ("Welcome Suica" and "Passmo Passport"). It looks like you can get the regular cards everywhere again if you want now, but when I visited in early 2024, there was a months-long shortage of regular cards going on,* so the airports only had those temporary cards available, meaning a whole lot of people came and left only ever getting a temporary one. (I went out of my way to get "real" permanent cards from a couple of other regions, although I regret not collecting more of them at some places I passed through.) * I have no idea how a shortage of hardware would make it better to give out temporary, expiring cards than permanent cards, since I assume they use the same technology (and the temporary ones would cause more churn, if anything). But that was the story at the time.
  - clifdweller 1mo ago
    The joys of single supplier most likely. Probably contracted to provide 1 mil a year or something then if tourism greater than that have the "disposable" ones... doesn't need to be any hardware difference though a simple time limited cards get activated with expiration date and server auto permanent inactivates them.
  - numpad0 1mo ago
    Could be because of some payment regulation. IIUC prepaid payment method in Japan has to maintain a large sum of deposit to cover cost of refunds in case of insolvency situation. Balances on expired cards probably aren't used for that deposit calculation. Also IIRC, relationship between Sony and JRE had soured few years ago and the fab in Japan that manufactured Suica cards was shut down. The contract went to Panasonic, but looks like Panasonic then sold off the smartcard unit to Nuvoton, and likely some security/nationalistic issues around that was the cause of the card supply issue. There are really subtle cues to tell the model number(smartcards have model numbers!) and manufacturer of cards, most simply in tiny dent created by the cavity to hold the chip. Sony ones were circular and current cards are racetrack shaped.
forthwall 1mo ago
Suica is incredible, I remember when I first visited Japan in the 2010’s I was amazed at the speed and ubiquity, now in America that tap to pay on transit terminals are becoming more ubiquitous I feel somewhat disappointed at the “lag” I feel compared to the suica transactions
ben1040 1mo ago
It's a bummer that while Google Wallet on Android phones supports Suica, they only offer the feature if the device was sold originally in Japan. Presumably they didn't want to pay Sony the licensing fees for the technology on non-JP devices. iPhones have it worldwide, so a visitor to Japan can use Apple Pay to stand up a card and fund it.
- panny 1mo ago
  Cringe. Cards are fun, collectable, and never run out of battery. Mine is a custom limited edition card from a Japanese chocolate factory. https://matcha-jp.com/en/9482 https://matcha-jp.com/en/9482
  - ezfe 1mo ago
    Suica cards (and transit express payments in other regions) work after iPhone batteries die for a few hours.
    - aqfamnzc 1mo ago
      Are you saying that an iphone can be used as a Suica card even with a dead battery? Or just that a discrete card still works when your phone is dead?
      - Zee2 1mo ago
        iPhones still let you use certain contactless features (like Suica) even when the battery has "run out" (ie., the main OS has shut off). The reserve battery power is enough to run Suica, CarKey support, and FindMy.
        klausa 1mo ago
        I imagine there are only maybe three people as stupid as me to try this, but just in case: it works fine when the battery runs out; but it does _not_ work during the OS update process.
taeric 1mo ago
Huge shout out that if you are going to be in Japan, you need one of these cards. I had thought I could just buy a two day pass in Tokyo. Which, you can, but you are almost certainly going to be limited to what routes and lines you can use, then. Which is brutal when you can't tell google maps which card you have.
- usrnm 1mo ago
  What happened to buying a single ticket at the station, when you need one? That's what I did when I was in Tokyo, but it was a long time ago
  - numpad0 1mo ago
    They're still available, but the card is more convenient(phones even more so). Tickets are also now priced slightly higher than card rides.
  - rwmj 1mo ago
    You can do that, but the card is far more convenient and journeys are cheaper too.
  - clifdweller 1mo ago
    yeah they still have the ticket stations next to the one to refill/buy IC cards. and thanks to the 20/21 Olympics in english now too(not 2 levels of menus deep like many of them used to be) so pretty easy to do
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
  - spike021 1mo ago
    If you're doing any transfers it could get reasonably complicated. SUICA makes those easy, unless you need a recharge to top it up.
- Elidrake24 1mo ago
  https://japantravel.navitime.com/en/ https://japantravel.navitime.com/en/ Allows you to specify up front what passes you have, worked brilliantly on our honeymoon, especially when figuring out which Shinkansen reservations we needed to make.
sowbug 1mo ago
When you pay with Suica, the merchant pays a transaction fee of between 2 to 3.2%, similar to a credit card. That's surprising. IC cards are so universally and cheerfully accepted that I assumed they had no per-transaction costs. Compare the US, where merchants can be surly about card payments.
- Conan_Kudo 1mo ago
  There's a mindset difference. People are more willing to pay to reduce inconvenience for customers there, whereas here the inconvenience to the merchant sometimes matters more.
  - ryan_lane 1mo ago
    This simply isn't true, or you'd see these places accept credit cards. The most prevalent mom & pop approach is either cash only or it's cash and PayPay. You may also see cash, PayPay and IC. PayPay, at first, had extremely low fees and an army of sales people that targeted mom & pops, pushing the low fees. They've since then increased fees as their saturation has increased, and now you'll see shops adding things like setapay or hachipay (which are annoyingly ku specific payment methods that are very low fee). Larger businesses are owned by massive conglomerates, or are housed in shopping complexes owned by massive conglomerates that require them to accept more payment methods. Like all businesses, they aim to reduce their costs and increase their margins. They aren't adding payment methods to reduce your inconvenience, unless they think doing so will increase their volume enough to offset the fees.
- jen20 1mo ago
  > Compare the US, where merchants can be surly about card payments. I rarely encounter this - I find it far more common to see places that won’t accept cash at all (even small businesses like food trucks).
  - kube-system 1mo ago
    Attitudes depends on margin and cash-handling costs. And prior to a 2013 class-action lawsuit that changed the situation, merchants were widely banned by payment processors from charging credit card transaction fees. But now many low margin businesses pass along the cost: for instance, it is common at gas stations, and almost universal at truck stops across the US. And some businesses have long opted for minimum transaction amount for credit purchases. https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2022/03/NINTCHDBPICT000721101090.jpg https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2022/03/N... https://wpcdn.us-east-1.vip.tn-cloud.net/www.41nbc.com/content/uploads/2021/02/debit.jpg https://wpcdn.us-east-1.vip.tn-cloud.net/www.41nbc.com/conte... On the other hand, in places where the target clientele is fully-banked and handling cash is more costly, some businesses find it advantageous to opt solely for card transactions: for instance, an upscale establishment in a city. They may have higher margins that can easily eat the cost, and being card-only also decreases the attractiveness to robbers and discourages unbanked patrons. It has also been criticized for being discriminatory in the same way.
speak_plainly 1mo ago
Sad to see the mascot going in March. Apparently this entire brand reset is tied to something JR East is calling 'Suica Renaissance,' which is about a ten-year effort to turn Suica into a lifestyle brand. Whitepaper: https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/press/2024/pdf/20241210.pdf https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/press/2024/pdf/20241210.pdf They're planning on moving beyond the ¥20,000 prepaid balance limit, they are adding QR code payments (think WeChat and Alipay), making Suica work across regions and support more touchless and cloud-based systems, and connecting it more with banking, shopping, loyalty, discounts, and local services. So essentially they want to become your default payment platform which is a huge opportunity given how paper-money-driven Japan is.
- ak217 1mo ago
  Nooo the penguin is the best part of suica!
- Shank 1mo ago
  The penguin isn't owned by JR East, which is the problem. It's owned by a specific artist and licensed by Dentsu, who has to approve all usage. The other transit networks actually fully own their mascots, but Suica's Penguin isn't theirs to control.
- echohack5 1mo ago
  The weirdest payment method has got to be the Coke ON vending machines that do not support SUICA but instead require you to QR code-IR blaster you to a website where you bluetooth pair with the vending machine then buy it on your mobile browser. Like....somehow they turned a sub 1ms operation into a 4 minute 32 second one. It boggles the mind
  - freetime2 1mo ago
    Coke ON Pay uses an app that automatically pairs with the machine when you open it [1]. It’s pretty quick and takes less than 30 seconds once you set it up. I think you might be referring to QR de Kessai [2], which was introduced in 2023 and is targeted more at inbound international tourists who don’t want to download the app and may not have an E-Money card. Basically they aim to support to support the widest possible audience - at the cost of a slow/clumsy experience. These machines should also accept payment via the faster Coke ON app method and often have E-Money tap-to-pay options too. From that perspective it kinda sorta makes sense. But yeah I wouldn’t bother with it unless I was dying of thirst and I had no cash or other payment options available. [1] https://szabo.jp/2021/05/16/coke-on/ https://szabo.jp/2021/05/16/coke-on/ [2] https://en.ccbji.co.jp/business/installation/qr-de-kessai/ https://en.ccbji.co.jp/business/installation/qr-de-kessai/
jacobgkau 1mo ago
> When you tap your card on a terminal, it reads and rewrites the card locally in an instant, with the entire transaction processed in under 200 milliseconds. For each tap, the card and terminal mutually authenticate each other and generate a fresh encryption key to prevent spoofing. This is the part that I'd be interested in reading more about. I'd known there must be some data on the card itself (since I can still use smartphone apps to read my cards now that I'm back in the US), but assumed there must have been some server connection too since storing anything authoritative on the card would invite tampering, and wondered why they would've bothered to store a log of recent trips on the card itself in addition to the hypothetical servers. It does make sense for latency reasons that they'd design it for the card itself to be authoritative, but I wonder how they do prevent tampering.
- numpad0 1mo ago
  It's largely the same as credit cards - the card have multiple data partitions and secure read/write are encrypted. Balances are logged on both the card and the station-level servers and correctable errors and/or mid-ride updates, if any, are propagated while the user is in motion, so that they can be written upon exit. ^ that was the official explanation for a long time, but they've reportedly transitioned to more credit-card like online system with no station-level servers, and also raised fees, which was negatively received by many rail operators aside JR East itself(which owns the system). There had been few rail companies experimenting with NFC credit card rides, though I'm personally suspecting it's more of bargaining power development.open threat than those lines seriously considering a switch. The chips in the cards are secure enough that physical tampering is extremely difficult and software tampering is difficult enough with security by obscurity + encryption - the catch is that, it turns out, early Suica cards used DES(not even 3DES it seems), and they just didn't tell anybody until those went out of circulation. Plus, the prepaid limit of 20k yen(local equivalent of $200) limits abuse potential of the system; it's not worth trying to commit blatant frauds on the train-and-sandwiches card.
  - jacobgkau 1mo ago
    > Plus, the prepaid limit of 20k yen(local equivalent of $200) limits abuse potential of the system; it's not worth trying to commit blatant frauds on the train-and-sandwiches card. I don't think a limit on the value stored on the card limits the potential of fraud. I'm not imagining someone would load tens of thousands of yen onto their card. I'm more imagining someone setting the card to have enough money to get through the gate, every time they want to use the train. I'd agree fare is cheap enough that it's probably not worth someone's time to figure that out, but it would add up over time if someone did it (and especially if the method for doing so got passed around). I also understand that there's two-way communication with one-time/expiring keys that would prevent a simple replay attack from working. Really just interested in understanding the entire mechanism in more detail! It gets handwaved as just "encryption" in a lot of discussions, probably due to a combination of intentional obscurity (like you mentioned) and it just not being super interesting or relevant to most contexts. (Also, good point that the servers would still allow significant deviations to be caught and the card rejected/flagged in the system-- I've also seen that concept mentioned elsewhere after trying to research it a bit more.)
cptcobalt 1mo ago
If you haven’t experienced suica, it’s like magically fast. Faster than NFC, faster than Apple Pay, faster than tap to pay, faster than Disney magic bands, faster than your work badge. It absolutely floored me every time I used it in Japan and it’s a full payment transaction.
- spot5010 1mo ago
  +1 you can walk through the subway turnstile and not slow down.
  - cute_boi 1mo ago
    Anything is faster than NY turnstile lol. In NY, sometime i have to double pay because the card that worked on bus doesn't work on subway...
    - lelandfe 1mo ago
      OMNY with iOS Express Mode is crazy fast. I don't even have to do anything besides hold my wrist or phone next to the entrance: https://support.apple.com/en-us/105123 https://support.apple.com/en-us/105123 I don't often do transfers, though.
- ezfe 1mo ago
  That was not my experience in Japan; I found that it still took a second to go through every time, just like in New York/etc.
  - jen729w 1mo ago
    Am in Japan now and can confirm: you got a broken one. It's magically fast, everywhere. I prefer it even at the 7-eleven. Why wait the interminable 2 seconds for your Visa 'cardo touchy' to work when Suica is literally instant. Reading this article it makes sense why it feels too fast to be real, especially when using a powered phone. The things are already communicating as my hand is moving towards the reader. By the time it gets there, it's happened. Stunningly good.
rwmj 1mo ago
Wait, the balance is stored on the card? I'm fairly sure the balance is shown in the JR app too, so presumably that cannot be the case. [Update: or maybe not? I opened the app now and it's asking me to enable NFC and hold it up to the card.] Anyway I love my Suica. I got it a good decade or more ago, I have a few thousand yen on there, and it's always ready for me when I go back to Japan. Useful on the Metro, trains and in shops. Easy to top up at the plentiful, dedicated top up machines. I also loaded Shinkansen tickets on it last time and travelled "ticketless".
- reaperducer 1mo ago
  I'm fairly sure the balance is shown in the app too Can confirm that Suica shows the balance in Apple Wallet.
- santaboom 1mo ago
  Op mentions that server side sync occurs outside of 200ms card/reader interaction.
- abdullahkhalids 1mo ago
  Yes, they do store the value. There was a blogpost posted to HN last year that discusses the cryptographic features of these cards [1,2]. It's amazing that these cards are almost solving the problem of secure digital money. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43993711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43993711 [2] working link since original blog is down https://web.archive.org/web/20250517082035/https://aruarian.dance/blog/japan-ic-cards/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250517082035/https://aruarian....
  - quinncom 1mo ago
    Alt link because archive.org is down now: https://archive.ph/V8H5s https://archive.ph/V8H5s
- hnfong 1mo ago
  The card definitely stores the balance. They probably sync the transaction records to their servers, but during the transaction the value on the card is presumed to be the truth AFAICT. Remember when the system was designed in the early 2000s the Internet was much less available and reliable, and when so many transactions happen every day, you don't want to get thousands of passengers stuck inside a metro station only because some Wifi router was down. This is basically a limitation of the CAP theorem, in these situations there's really no choice but to sacrifice "consistency" and settle for eventual consistency. I think even credit card payments for transit also make that sacrifice. I had a weird experience using a Visa card to pay for a tram ride because they were promoting it and had a discount. The machine indicated success and let me through, but since I rarely used the card, somehow the payment didn't go through afterwards (the credit card was in a very weird state). If they insisted that all the payment transactions complete successfully for a transit payment, it would be too inconvenient and unreliable to use.
lsch1033 1mo ago
FeliCa (or called NFC Type-F) is so great and the fact that it's dominant in Japan even made Apple to include FeliCa support on global iPhones!
kenjackson 1mo ago
There also seems to be some state logic as well. The card knows when I’m in the middle of a trip and doesn’t update the balance until a future tap when it can determine the extent of the trip (presumably). Very cool that it’s all done locally.
haunter 1mo ago
The best thing that you can add a Suica, PASMO, ICOCA, or TOICA card anytime to your Apple Wallet. You don't even have to be Japan. Just add transit pass and that's all, when you are there you can start using it instantly. But it works with a lot of cards all around the world (Hong Kong Octopus, Korea Tmoney, SF Clipper etc.) it's in the Wallet app itself.
slillibri 1mo ago
For me, other than the speed and convenience, I was amazed that I could use my same Suica card (on my iPhone) in Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, and Fukuoka. Even though each region has their own card, they have mutual use in most areas.
syntaxing 1mo ago
If you get a children’s card, they print your kids name right on it. It’s a nice little souvenir to keep.
spicyjpeg 1mo ago
The FeliCa NFC standard made its way into more than just transit cards in Japan. One notable user is the Amusement IC network, which lets you quickly log into arcade games across multiple manufacturers using a single card. Some implementations (Konami's e-amusement most notably) even go as far as to allow any FeliCa-compatible card or device to be linked to a profile, including transit cards, phones (with no app required!) and certain models of Sony Bluetooth earbuds which use FeliCa for quick pairing.
- kalleboo 1mo ago
  > Some implementations even go as far as to allow any FeliCa-compatible card or device to be linked to a profile This is also put in use in many karaoke joints to save a list of your favorite songs/song history.
MisterTea 1mo ago
Coming from NYC and being used to swiping once to pay a flat fair, my first Suica lesson was they vary the fair by the distance traveled. This means you have to tap in AND out of buses and subways. It was a bit embarrassing and frustrating when I almost could not board a bus in Sapporo with my friends after they all tapped in and my card was rejected. WTF? Thankfully the bus driver showed me a sign in English telling me I forgot to tap out of a station or bus. Oh. He let me board the bus with my friends. Found a train station and the woman at the counter began holding up a series of English signs so we could figure out where I forgot to tap out to ensure the correct charge is applied then sent me on my way. Turns out I goofed up transferring between the Tokyo subway and Shinkansen where I didn't tap out of the subway, got stuck, and a frustrated transit worker just opened the gate to let my dumb tourist ass through meaning I didn't tap out of the subway. I was floored when I found out you could pay for stuff with my "Japanese MetroCard." It's quite a wonderful system.
- rangestransform 1mo ago
  We should have tap in/out in NYC too, it gives another opportunity to catch a fare evader
  - crote 1mo ago
    It also allows for easy in-transit checking: anyone on the "secure" side of the fare gates must be in possession of a card whose last transaction was a tap-in. There's no chance of a cheeky "it wasn't me who jumped the turnstyles - it was my lookalike", and you can have roaming groups of ticket validators who board random carriages and check everyone.
- nihonde 1mo ago
  99% sure you passed through a transfer gate in Tokyo station that requires you to produce two "tickets" (physical or virtual)—one for subway and one for Shinkansen. Always plenty confusing. I have to hold my phone (Suica app) and an EX card (Shinkansen card) together for a dual-NFC tap. I always forget one or the other.
  - 1mo ago
rrr_oh_man 1mo ago
> fast What are y'all comparing it with? I’ve tried to find videos online but they all seem… normal?
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 1mo ago
  It's normal speed for a transit card. in that you can tap and walk without slowing down. But it's really quite fast compared to more general balance card services like NFC/tap to pay, etc.
- dadoum 1mo ago
  Probably compared to widespread MIFARE cards or more complex Calypso cards, which are noticeably slower (not a dealbreaker though imo).
alexmuresan 1mo ago
I was hoping the author would also discuss a bit more about the security / encryption side of it. If transactions are done only between the card and the reader, could one use a reader at home to alter the balance? If you can load the card on you phone I assume you can use the phone to read it, but that might not be true. Anyway it was a great read! Glad to see somebody writing without (obvious) use of LLMs.
- KateLawson 1mo ago
  Various versions of these cards could be accessed to change the balance, including extracting the key by differential power analysis [edit] Looks like this finally became public recently https://www.techtimes.com/articles/321138/20260721/japan-confirms-cryptographic-flaw-legacy-sony-felica-cards-no-patch-available.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/321138/20260721/japan-con...
RIMR 1mo ago
>Project leader Akio Shiibashi originally set a symbolic launch target: January 1, 2001, the first day of the new millennium. I'm getting off-topic here, but I really appreciate it when people get this date right.
rippeltippel 1mo ago
How is it different from the Oyster card in London?
- haunter 1mo ago
  Suica works virtually everywhere https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/suicamoney/shop.html https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/suicamoney/shop.html Imagine if you could pay with the Oyster card everywhere from Tesco to Greggs to National Rail to Uber Actually you can find some small family shops, restaurants etc where they don't accept credit cards but Suica only
LM37 1mo ago
I’ve visited Tokyo four times, and I’ve been using the same Suica card since my very first trip! I love it, and I’d really like to collect all the Suica-like cards, such as PASMO, ICOCA, Kitaca, and more. I love it when little everyday things bring a tiny bit of happiness and color into daily life. (for more info: https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2359_003.html https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2359_003.html)
tines 1mo ago
Weird romanization, wouldn't it be "suika"? There's no "ca" grapheme in common Japanese romanization systems iirc.
- charcircuit 1mo ago
  The article explains it is romanized that way since it comes from "card".
charcircuit 1mo ago
>Every Suica card has a chip storing two things: a unique card ID, and your current balance. This is not true. It also stores some history on where you have last entered so it can do things like transfers or block you from exiting an area that you never entered.
- pohuing 1mo ago
  And they're also easy to read. So if you find a wallet you can figure out where the owner lives for a visit/s Was a bit shocked to find that I can just read my suica using my European Pixel. I had expected that part to be encrypted somehow.
juliansimioni 1mo ago
I am literally on a flight to Japan right now, and one of my main goals is to add a Suica card to my collection of transit cards from around the world (currently 31 cards large). Sadly physical cards may only have a few years left, for the most part using tap-to-ride is superior. So I really have to get out there and grab them while I can.
- MarkSweep 1mo ago
  A noble goal. Last I heard the best bet to gete a physical Suica card is to get the Welcome Suica. It is available at a few airports and a few large train stations: https://www.jreast.co.jp/en/multi/welcomesuica/welcomesuica.html https://www.jreast.co.jp/en/multi/welcomesuica/welcomesuica....
  - juliansimioni 1mo ago
    I got both (because of course I did) with no problem. The welcome Suica came with a free notebook which I’m also using to collect the Japan Rail stamps https://www.jrailpass.com/blog/eki-train-stamps https://www.jrailpass.com/blog/eki-train-stamps
parl_match 1mo ago
i imagine not being reliant on american payment networks for your nation's retail economy has lit a fire under their asses.
- pjc50 1mo ago
  Hardly, the country is still heavily cash-using, and where transitioning to electronic payments the local PayPay system seems to be popular. Suica payments for stores are basically only for dense areas of Tokyo.
  - parl_match 1mo ago
    Hardly? Credit cards passed cash for retail purchases last year. They're neck and neck. If you break down by age demographic, you'll probably guess who's using what. And the ones using cash are quickly disappearing. And let's say it wasn't, and if cash was still king: 10% of Japan's payments infra being weaponized during tariff negotiations would still be a huge dent to their economy. The country had been migrating over heavily, but Trump 2 actions put the brakes on a lot of EMV rollout. PayPay is an evolution/merge of Line Pay (long story), which struggled to capture market share in Japan past peer-to-peer payments, due to a bunch of factors. You'll see it in stores, of course, but it's adoption isn't amazing (not bad, just not amazing). Suica benefits from FeliCa/NFC-F lock-in, and considerable existing deployment, plus integration with the rail network. Almost everyone in Japan has a FeliCa/NFC-F device with currency loaded. FWIW I am an American, but I am working on payments infrastructure and billing for a American owned subsidiary of a Japanese corporation. This happens to be a subject that I am wading into on a daily basis, at least from a technical side. Oh, and you might be interested to hear what's happening in the UK with OysterCard. They recently finished their EMV rollout and then paused all OysterCard sunset timelines. I wonder why.
alerighi 1mo ago
Maybe it was advanced for the time being created, to me it's just any other RFID card that is issued everywhere else in the world in the matter of read speed, from every public transit card that I find in every EU country I've visited (maybe for a US citizen not used to public transit it seems something special, I don't know), to skipasses, to even your gym card. Having the option to also pay with credit card would be much more convenient to tourists, when I visited Japan I've had difficulties finding the right place to get a SUICA card (being that my Android phone didn't have Felica chip, as most phones sold outside Japan), and on top of that you almost everywhere need to charge it with only cash. And you can charge it only by 500 or 1000 yen at the time (depending on the machine), and of course tickets always have not round prices like 110 yen. And you have 500 yen of deposit for a card that probably costs to them 10 yen to manufacturer, unless you get the red SUICA card that you can get only in some special machines at the airport but with that you don't get back the unused credit when you leave (you can spend it at vending machine tough). So the speed saving of a couple of ms of not having to pay by tapping your normal credit card is completely vanished by wasting time to charge that card. BTW even if they don't want to put credit card POS on every station (I get it, it's expensive and they need to pay fees if someone uses a card, compared to cash) they could make a system that uses regular NFC (would be 100ms slower, who cares) at least for tourists so they can use it with a regular NFC card in their phone wallet that they can charge with an app without requiring a technology that only works in phone sold in Japan?
- makeitdouble 1mo ago
  There is a perhaps a trend of local payment means being less accessible to tourists. I haven't experienced it first hand but WeChat/Alipay are in the same boat as I understand, and PromptPay in Indonesia can be somewhat be used but needs preparation before making the trip. Now, if you're not a tourist passing by for 3 days, Suica has most of your gripes solved and is an incredibly useful general payment mean. I use the Felica version on my phone (so no card), charge it with 3 taps in the app from my credit card, could have it auto charge if I really wanted to and is my payment choice wherever QR codes or QuickPay won't cut it. BTW you can now use your credit card to ride JR trains.
  - 1mo ago
mrbonner 1mo ago
I’m going to Japan soon. Should I just use the iPhone Suica version or get the physical one?
- fizwidget 1mo ago
  I was in Japan last year. iPhone version was super easy and worked flawlessly for me.
  - franksvalli 1mo ago
    Agree! Just a heads up for folks that you’ll likely want to download the Welcome Suica app which is aimed at tourists. The regular Suica app is separate and is not English-friendly (this may be worth it for you only if you’re staying long term, ok with the language barrier, and want a card that doesn’t expire).
  - mrbonner 1mo ago
    Is it the Apple Wallet version or the actual Suica app? I'm wondering about the Apple Wallet one.
    - thrdbndndn 1mo ago
      Apple Wallet version is enough for 99% case. You do need the suica app for things like purchasing green car ticket etc.
- deleted 1mo ago
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cube00 1mo ago
When you tap your card on a terminal, it reads and rewrites the card locally in an instant, with the entire transaction processed in under 200 milliseconds. It's depressing that some transport systems around the world delivered decades later couldn't match this (using a proprietary card not a credit card), looking at you Myki.
chrysoprace 1mo ago
In the past I've purchased a rail pass because I figured it'd be more economical but last trip we just got a couple of IC cards and just booked our shinkansen and that was honestly the best experience. The problem with the rail pass was that it could only be used on some services, and the IC card was usable on most. The most confusing thing is just figuring out which local transport companies have a slightly different network, but it was honestly not bad.
Lammy 1mo ago
Even though I've never been to Japan I have one of these loaded onto my phone so I can use it to sign in to beatmaniaⅡᴅx arcade machines lol
varun_ch 1mo ago
I’m in Japan right now on a holiday and I was blown away by how easy it was to get set up with Suica through Apple Wallet / Apple Pay. In fact, I did the initial set up back home in Toronto just by tapping a few buttons in the native Apple Wallet app. Took probably 30 seconds. It is so convenient to use Express Transit Cards on iOS… I also just found out that there’s something similar for Presto cards in Toronto so I’m going to have to set that up too.
cmiles8 1mo ago
The combination of its speed and universal acceptance across Japan makes this by far the best system anywhere. Despite being decades old, it’s still better than “new” systems being rolled out elsewhere. Want to buy a drink while waiting for your train? Just tap the same card. It’s magical and way faster than ApplePay or similar tech.
thisumang 1mo ago
Suica is amazing until it isn't, recharge with credit cards can be a miss. Doesn't work everywhere in Japan too.
- weberer 1mo ago
  When I visited, my Visa card didn't work anywhere except 7-11 ATMs for some payment network reason. So the Suica card was a lifesaver.
daremocooon 1mo ago
I live in Tokyo and use my Suica almost every day. Suica is very convenient because it makes entering station gates very smooth. I have a question: how do people enter stations in cities outside of Japan? I have never been outside of Japan, so I was curious.
- klausa 1mo ago
  Depends on where. Many cities have their own cards, that are used for transit only (so no vending machines etc., and no interoperability between cities), increasingly many places just let you use your credit card in place of the special transit card, some places (Germany, some parts of Scandinavia) don’t have ticket gates at all.
- crote 1mo ago
  In The Netherlands it is exactly the same, just from a different vendor and with different branding. Of course the "not invented here" mentality resulted in it being woefully insecure when it was introduced in 2014, and NFC tap-to-pay with credit/debit cards, smartphones, and wearables still isn't properly implemented. They now made the decision to completely retire the current RFID solution, because the chip vendor discontinued the lineup it relies on. Its replacement proprietary card is based on NFC tap-to-pay, so on top of terrible product compatibility during the transition period we're also getting a nice extra tap-in delay out of it.
- pjc50 1mo ago
  Most countries have a similar system in the most popular places. London Oyster may be technically not as fast but it's the same basic experience. The challenge in the UK is getting tap-to-pay through bank cards onto all the little local bus operators.
- mailund 1mo ago
  In Norway, the trains and subway don't have physical barriers, you just enter! You will get a fine if you are stopped in a random control without a valid ticket (although the controllers are apparently reasonably lenient if you can show that you usually have an active ticket and just happened to forget), but there's nothing physically stopping you from trying! I believe the reason is mostly historical (it wasn't deemed necessary when most of the system was built, and the later attempt to introduce the gates later failed for a bunch of different reasons)
ggm 1mo ago
Why was it quicker? Better antenna & RF analog circuit design? Shorter software path to token recognition? Single vendor vertical integration? Protocol overheads?
Gud 1mo ago
Ok, this might sound great but it's really not. I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the station, anywhere. There are multiple ways to purchase a ticket, I usually use the app Fairtiq or the official SBB app, where I swipe right before boarding the train/tram/bus(it's a national system, so even works on the regional networks) and swipe left when I'm done with my travel. It then calculates the best price for me. If I do multiple journeys, it will know what I should have gotten a 24 hour pass, and subsequent travel is free. tap in/tap off sucks no matter how good the system is. It is fundamentally a wrong think. I travel by public transport in many countries, I travel over the world for work, it is my preferred mode of transport. Switzerland has by far the best ideas. Luxembourg is great as well, totally free, but small.
- ororoo 1mo ago
  go try it out, it works great in japan. it fundamentally works.
  - Gud 1mo ago
    I've used many similar systems. Netherlands has an identical system. I prefer when there are no turnstiles or other forms of gates blocking my way. Just step onto the train.
- soco 1mo ago
  True, the Swiss is the simplest way around - and in planning is to activate it even without swiping (I'm not sure I remember details): But let's face it the tap system is not that far behind, because in some implementations it can do that calculation by itself (I believe having seen it in London?) so at the end of the day you end up paying the optimal price.
  - Gud 1mo ago
    The problem is that the tap in/tap off is an unnecessary inconvenience. I often travel with suitcases(always on the road for my work) and it's a pain in the ass sometimes due to the mechanism in my way. Why should I have to fiddle with some card, just to verify I've paid? Every day, for the rest of my life? I prefer the Swiss way, where there are random checks. These random checks are done everywhere else anyway. It just seems that these boundaries have been put in place because some people believe that they are necessary. They may be necessary in some locations(London, like you mentioned) but I doubt they are necessary in Japan.
miki123211 1mo ago
The chips in these cards are a perfect example of a computer you own but don't control, and when that's a good thing. The only reason fast transit cards work is that the chips on them are under control of the transit agency, and designed in a way that makes it impossible for the card owner to hack in and modify the balance. If somebody finds a fundamental flaw in Suica, I suspect things will get pretty interesting indeed. If you tried to implement Suica with cards where the card owner had full control, you would have to do this with asymmetric keys, cryptographic signatures, and a round trip to the server for every transaction.
gregjw 1mo ago
All the IC cards are great, so useful, I even use one for identification at my office.
WorseIsBetter 1mo ago
[flagged]
philipwhiuk 1mo ago
I was expecting it to be a massive hassle but the Apple Wallet integration surprised me. It was so easy to create a card and add funds Credit to the Suica folk and Apple folk for making it seamless. As for the speed.. idk I think it's about as quick as the Oyster card. Phone payments have a bunch of extra latency on TfL too.
bayindirh 1mo ago
> They found that tilting the reader exactly 13.5 degrees made it match the natural ergonomic motion of a hand moving forward. Japan is, due to its history and culture, is very good at finding these kinds of nature inspired solutions to their somewhat hard problems in a very elegant way. I really like them when they do that. This is why some of the Japanese wares look a bit unconventional but extremely delightful to use.

284 points by zdw 1mo ago

> The cards have no battery and aren’t self-powered in any way. Instead, the reader on the gate emits an electromagnetic field that powers the card just long enough to complete the transaction. Brillant!

trescenzi 1mo ago
This is how all passive RFID works. It's pretty cool. There's even systems that are both passive and active. For example, as a Disney adult, I'm familiar with their magic bands which do have a battery but also work passively. For tying ride photos automatically to you the battery matters because you're either moving too fast or are too far from the camera for passive to be consistently effective. But for simply using it as payment or a ticket you're pressing the device up against a reader and no matter how old the battery is it'll continue working.
- dfox 1mo ago
  At a first glance passive RFID would be a perfect match for ride photos, the whole mechanism is ridiculously fast so speed of the ride would not matter much (the technology works at highway speeds just fine) and can work over ~15 meters. But there are two somewhat significant issues with the radio layer in this application: the geometry of tag antenna is somewhat critical (making it into a band would be problematic) and the back scatter is attenuated by salt water blobs (ie. people) almost perfectly.
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
reaperducer 1mo ago
> The cards have no battery and aren’t self-powered in any way. Instead, the reader on the gate emits an electromagnetic field that powers the card just long enough to complete the transaction. Brillant! AT&T showed this in television commercials back in the 1980's. "Can you go through a toll booth without stopping? You will. And the company that will bring it to you is AT&T."
- toast0 1mo ago
  The 90s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Will https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Will Lots of those things happened (maybe not faxing from the beach), but AT&T didn't bring us very many of them.

jjice 1mo ago

Suica was excellent when I had the chance to use it. I used the Apple Pay version and it worked flawlessly. I think I do prefer what I'm seeing more and more in the US with a tap-to-pay so I don't have to learn a new system, but Suica was so universal that I really couldn't complain. Makes sense especially with the larger diversity of digital payment methods and cash prevalence in Japan.

TulliusCicero 1mo ago
The really nice advantage of Suica is its speed. Yeah credit card tap to pay is alright, but it's relatively slow, taking multiple seconds. Now QR code payment seems to be taking off in Japan, but unfortunately you can't access it as a tourist.
- Tor3 1mo ago
  There are several types of QR code payments getting introduced, so it would be interesting to know the specifics. I'm only aware of using a QR code for Shinkansen tickets, which is something I have used and something a tourist can use as well. And then there's the new tickets slowly getting introduced in some areas, where the paper ticket has a QR code. I've not seen those yet, but it sounds like just an ordinary ticket otherwise.
  - TulliusCicero 1mo ago
    I mean general QR code payments as opposed to QR codes on tickets. First noticed them at convenience stores, but vending machines have them too, and I think some restaurants.
    - Tor3 1mo ago
      When you mention it I may have seen that too. I'll investigate when I get back again. Thanks!
- crote 1mo ago
  Credit card tap-to-pay doesn't have to be slow. The transaction could be done asynchronously, and some payment schemes even explicitly classify transit transactions as impossible-to-fail and will ignore things like overdraft limits. Similarly, it could also be implemented via a rolling payment hold loop. Unattended petrol stations do something similar: you first insert the card to authorize a hold (say $200), then fill up the car, then finalize the transaction - at which point your $50 bill is actually deducted and the hold on the remaining $150 is released. Transit could do the same, with only the very first transaction being slow, and each terminal containing a list of pre-authorized cards.

kubb 1mo ago

One thing that surprised me was that certain ramen and soba shops didn’t accept cards at all and the only non-cash payment option was the IC card.

Tor3 1mo ago
An Indian curry restaurant in "my" local Aeon only accepts PayPay or cash and that's it, so you get all kinds. Other than that I've been able to use my Suica card in surprising places.

trzy 1mo ago

I still have my Passmo card from my very first visit to Japan in 2008. I went back in 2018 and it still worked and had a balance. I used it as recently as 2025. Pretty cool!

jacobgkau 1mo ago
It's a bit of a shame that the long-term "wow" factor has been somewhat negated by the new tourist cards that expire after four weeks ("Welcome Suica" and "Passmo Passport"). It looks like you can get the regular cards everywhere again if you want now, but when I visited in early 2024, there was a months-long shortage of regular cards going on,* so the airports only had those temporary cards available, meaning a whole lot of people came and left only ever getting a temporary one. (I went out of my way to get "real" permanent cards from a couple of other regions, although I regret not collecting more of them at some places I passed through.) * I have no idea how a shortage of hardware would make it better to give out temporary, expiring cards than permanent cards, since I assume they use the same technology (and the temporary ones would cause more churn, if anything). But that was the story at the time.
- clifdweller 1mo ago
  The joys of single supplier most likely. Probably contracted to provide 1 mil a year or something then if tourism greater than that have the "disposable" ones... doesn't need to be any hardware difference though a simple time limited cards get activated with expiration date and server auto permanent inactivates them.
- numpad0 1mo ago
  Could be because of some payment regulation. IIUC prepaid payment method in Japan has to maintain a large sum of deposit to cover cost of refunds in case of insolvency situation. Balances on expired cards probably aren't used for that deposit calculation. Also IIRC, relationship between Sony and JRE had soured few years ago and the fab in Japan that manufactured Suica cards was shut down. The contract went to Panasonic, but looks like Panasonic then sold off the smartcard unit to Nuvoton, and likely some security/nationalistic issues around that was the cause of the card supply issue. There are really subtle cues to tell the model number(smartcards have model numbers!) and manufacturer of cards, most simply in tiny dent created by the cavity to hold the chip. Sony ones were circular and current cards are racetrack shaped.

forthwall 1mo ago

Suica is incredible, I remember when I first visited Japan in the 2010’s I was amazed at the speed and ubiquity, now in America that tap to pay on transit terminals are becoming more ubiquitous I feel somewhat disappointed at the “lag” I feel compared to the suica transactions

ben1040 1mo ago

It's a bummer that while Google Wallet on Android phones supports Suica, they only offer the feature if the device was sold originally in Japan. Presumably they didn't want to pay Sony the licensing fees for the technology on non-JP devices. iPhones have it worldwide, so a visitor to Japan can use Apple Pay to stand up a card and fund it.

panny 1mo ago
Cringe. Cards are fun, collectable, and never run out of battery. Mine is a custom limited edition card from a Japanese chocolate factory. https://matcha-jp.com/en/9482 https://matcha-jp.com/en/9482
- ezfe 1mo ago
  Suica cards (and transit express payments in other regions) work after iPhone batteries die for a few hours.
  - aqfamnzc 1mo ago
    Are you saying that an iphone can be used as a Suica card even with a dead battery? Or just that a discrete card still works when your phone is dead?
    - Zee2 1mo ago
      iPhones still let you use certain contactless features (like Suica) even when the battery has "run out" (ie., the main OS has shut off). The reserve battery power is enough to run Suica, CarKey support, and FindMy.
      - klausa 1mo ago
        I imagine there are only maybe three people as stupid as me to try this, but just in case: it works fine when the battery runs out; but it does _not_ work during the OS update process.

taeric 1mo ago

Huge shout out that if you are going to be in Japan, you need one of these cards. I had thought I could just buy a two day pass in Tokyo. Which, you can, but you are almost certainly going to be limited to what routes and lines you can use, then. Which is brutal when you can't tell google maps which card you have.

usrnm 1mo ago
What happened to buying a single ticket at the station, when you need one? That's what I did when I was in Tokyo, but it was a long time ago
- numpad0 1mo ago
  They're still available, but the card is more convenient(phones even more so). Tickets are also now priced slightly higher than card rides.
- rwmj 1mo ago
  You can do that, but the card is far more convenient and journeys are cheaper too.
- clifdweller 1mo ago
  yeah they still have the ticket stations next to the one to refill/buy IC cards. and thanks to the 20/21 Olympics in english now too(not 2 levels of menus deep like many of them used to be) so pretty easy to do
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
- spike021 1mo ago
  If you're doing any transfers it could get reasonably complicated. SUICA makes those easy, unless you need a recharge to top it up.
Elidrake24 1mo ago
https://japantravel.navitime.com/en/ https://japantravel.navitime.com/en/ Allows you to specify up front what passes you have, worked brilliantly on our honeymoon, especially when figuring out which Shinkansen reservations we needed to make.

sowbug 1mo ago

When you pay with Suica, the merchant pays a transaction fee of between 2 to 3.2%, similar to a credit card. That's surprising. IC cards are so universally and cheerfully accepted that I assumed they had no per-transaction costs. Compare the US, where merchants can be surly about card payments.

Conan_Kudo 1mo ago
There's a mindset difference. People are more willing to pay to reduce inconvenience for customers there, whereas here the inconvenience to the merchant sometimes matters more.
- ryan_lane 1mo ago
  This simply isn't true, or you'd see these places accept credit cards. The most prevalent mom & pop approach is either cash only or it's cash and PayPay. You may also see cash, PayPay and IC. PayPay, at first, had extremely low fees and an army of sales people that targeted mom & pops, pushing the low fees. They've since then increased fees as their saturation has increased, and now you'll see shops adding things like setapay or hachipay (which are annoyingly ku specific payment methods that are very low fee). Larger businesses are owned by massive conglomerates, or are housed in shopping complexes owned by massive conglomerates that require them to accept more payment methods. Like all businesses, they aim to reduce their costs and increase their margins. They aren't adding payment methods to reduce your inconvenience, unless they think doing so will increase their volume enough to offset the fees.
jen20 1mo ago
> Compare the US, where merchants can be surly about card payments. I rarely encounter this - I find it far more common to see places that won’t accept cash at all (even small businesses like food trucks).
- kube-system 1mo ago
  Attitudes depends on margin and cash-handling costs. And prior to a 2013 class-action lawsuit that changed the situation, merchants were widely banned by payment processors from charging credit card transaction fees. But now many low margin businesses pass along the cost: for instance, it is common at gas stations, and almost universal at truck stops across the US. And some businesses have long opted for minimum transaction amount for credit purchases. https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2022/03/NINTCHDBPICT000721101090.jpg https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2022/03/N... https://wpcdn.us-east-1.vip.tn-cloud.net/www.41nbc.com/content/uploads/2021/02/debit.jpg https://wpcdn.us-east-1.vip.tn-cloud.net/www.41nbc.com/conte... On the other hand, in places where the target clientele is fully-banked and handling cash is more costly, some businesses find it advantageous to opt solely for card transactions: for instance, an upscale establishment in a city. They may have higher margins that can easily eat the cost, and being card-only also decreases the attractiveness to robbers and discourages unbanked patrons. It has also been criticized for being discriminatory in the same way.

speak_plainly 1mo ago

Sad to see the mascot going in March. Apparently this entire brand reset is tied to something JR East is calling 'Suica Renaissance,' which is about a ten-year effort to turn Suica into a lifestyle brand. Whitepaper: https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/press/2024/pdf/20241210.pdf https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/press/2024/pdf/20241210.pdf They're planning on moving beyond the ¥20,000 prepaid balance limit, they are adding QR code payments (think WeChat and Alipay), making Suica work across regions and support more touchless and cloud-based systems, and connecting it more with banking, shopping, loyalty, discounts, and local services. So essentially they want to become your default payment platform which is a huge opportunity given how paper-money-driven Japan is.

ak217 1mo ago
Nooo the penguin is the best part of suica!
Shank 1mo ago
The penguin isn't owned by JR East, which is the problem. It's owned by a specific artist and licensed by Dentsu, who has to approve all usage. The other transit networks actually fully own their mascots, but Suica's Penguin isn't theirs to control.
echohack5 1mo ago
The weirdest payment method has got to be the Coke ON vending machines that do not support SUICA but instead require you to QR code-IR blaster you to a website where you bluetooth pair with the vending machine then buy it on your mobile browser. Like....somehow they turned a sub 1ms operation into a 4 minute 32 second one. It boggles the mind
- freetime2 1mo ago
  Coke ON Pay uses an app that automatically pairs with the machine when you open it [1]. It’s pretty quick and takes less than 30 seconds once you set it up. I think you might be referring to QR de Kessai [2], which was introduced in 2023 and is targeted more at inbound international tourists who don’t want to download the app and may not have an E-Money card. Basically they aim to support to support the widest possible audience - at the cost of a slow/clumsy experience. These machines should also accept payment via the faster Coke ON app method and often have E-Money tap-to-pay options too. From that perspective it kinda sorta makes sense. But yeah I wouldn’t bother with it unless I was dying of thirst and I had no cash or other payment options available. [1] https://szabo.jp/2021/05/16/coke-on/ https://szabo.jp/2021/05/16/coke-on/ [2] https://en.ccbji.co.jp/business/installation/qr-de-kessai/ https://en.ccbji.co.jp/business/installation/qr-de-kessai/

jacobgkau 1mo ago

> When you tap your card on a terminal, it reads and rewrites the card locally in an instant, with the entire transaction processed in under 200 milliseconds. For each tap, the card and terminal mutually authenticate each other and generate a fresh encryption key to prevent spoofing. This is the part that I'd be interested in reading more about. I'd known there must be some data on the card itself (since I can still use smartphone apps to read my cards now that I'm back in the US), but assumed there must have been some server connection too since storing anything authoritative on the card would invite tampering, and wondered why they would've bothered to store a log of recent trips on the card itself in addition to the hypothetical servers. It does make sense for latency reasons that they'd design it for the card itself to be authoritative, but I wonder how they do prevent tampering.

numpad0 1mo ago
It's largely the same as credit cards - the card have multiple data partitions and secure read/write are encrypted. Balances are logged on both the card and the station-level servers and correctable errors and/or mid-ride updates, if any, are propagated while the user is in motion, so that they can be written upon exit. ^ that was the official explanation for a long time, but they've reportedly transitioned to more credit-card like online system with no station-level servers, and also raised fees, which was negatively received by many rail operators aside JR East itself(which owns the system). There had been few rail companies experimenting with NFC credit card rides, though I'm personally suspecting it's more of bargaining power development.open threat than those lines seriously considering a switch. The chips in the cards are secure enough that physical tampering is extremely difficult and software tampering is difficult enough with security by obscurity + encryption - the catch is that, it turns out, early Suica cards used DES(not even 3DES it seems), and they just didn't tell anybody until those went out of circulation. Plus, the prepaid limit of 20k yen(local equivalent of $200) limits abuse potential of the system; it's not worth trying to commit blatant frauds on the train-and-sandwiches card.
- jacobgkau 1mo ago
  > Plus, the prepaid limit of 20k yen(local equivalent of $200) limits abuse potential of the system; it's not worth trying to commit blatant frauds on the train-and-sandwiches card. I don't think a limit on the value stored on the card limits the potential of fraud. I'm not imagining someone would load tens of thousands of yen onto their card. I'm more imagining someone setting the card to have enough money to get through the gate, every time they want to use the train. I'd agree fare is cheap enough that it's probably not worth someone's time to figure that out, but it would add up over time if someone did it (and especially if the method for doing so got passed around). I also understand that there's two-way communication with one-time/expiring keys that would prevent a simple replay attack from working. Really just interested in understanding the entire mechanism in more detail! It gets handwaved as just "encryption" in a lot of discussions, probably due to a combination of intentional obscurity (like you mentioned) and it just not being super interesting or relevant to most contexts. (Also, good point that the servers would still allow significant deviations to be caught and the card rejected/flagged in the system-- I've also seen that concept mentioned elsewhere after trying to research it a bit more.)

cptcobalt 1mo ago

If you haven’t experienced suica, it’s like magically fast. Faster than NFC, faster than Apple Pay, faster than tap to pay, faster than Disney magic bands, faster than your work badge. It absolutely floored me every time I used it in Japan and it’s a full payment transaction.

spot5010 1mo ago
+1 you can walk through the subway turnstile and not slow down.
- cute_boi 1mo ago
  Anything is faster than NY turnstile lol. In NY, sometime i have to double pay because the card that worked on bus doesn't work on subway...
  - lelandfe 1mo ago
    OMNY with iOS Express Mode is crazy fast. I don't even have to do anything besides hold my wrist or phone next to the entrance: https://support.apple.com/en-us/105123 https://support.apple.com/en-us/105123 I don't often do transfers, though.
ezfe 1mo ago
That was not my experience in Japan; I found that it still took a second to go through every time, just like in New York/etc.
- jen729w 1mo ago
  Am in Japan now and can confirm: you got a broken one. It's magically fast, everywhere. I prefer it even at the 7-eleven. Why wait the interminable 2 seconds for your Visa 'cardo touchy' to work when Suica is literally instant. Reading this article it makes sense why it feels too fast to be real, especially when using a powered phone. The things are already communicating as my hand is moving towards the reader. By the time it gets there, it's happened. Stunningly good.

rwmj 1mo ago

Wait, the balance is stored on the card? I'm fairly sure the balance is shown in the JR app too, so presumably that cannot be the case. [Update: or maybe not? I opened the app now and it's asking me to enable NFC and hold it up to the card.] Anyway I love my Suica. I got it a good decade or more ago, I have a few thousand yen on there, and it's always ready for me when I go back to Japan. Useful on the Metro, trains and in shops. Easy to top up at the plentiful, dedicated top up machines. I also loaded Shinkansen tickets on it last time and travelled "ticketless".

reaperducer 1mo ago
I'm fairly sure the balance is shown in the app too Can confirm that Suica shows the balance in Apple Wallet.
santaboom 1mo ago
Op mentions that server side sync occurs outside of 200ms card/reader interaction.
abdullahkhalids 1mo ago
Yes, they do store the value. There was a blogpost posted to HN last year that discusses the cryptographic features of these cards [1,2]. It's amazing that these cards are almost solving the problem of secure digital money. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43993711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43993711 [2] working link since original blog is down https://web.archive.org/web/20250517082035/https://aruarian.dance/blog/japan-ic-cards/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250517082035/https://aruarian....
- quinncom 1mo ago
  Alt link because archive.org is down now: https://archive.ph/V8H5s https://archive.ph/V8H5s
hnfong 1mo ago
The card definitely stores the balance. They probably sync the transaction records to their servers, but during the transaction the value on the card is presumed to be the truth AFAICT. Remember when the system was designed in the early 2000s the Internet was much less available and reliable, and when so many transactions happen every day, you don't want to get thousands of passengers stuck inside a metro station only because some Wifi router was down. This is basically a limitation of the CAP theorem, in these situations there's really no choice but to sacrifice "consistency" and settle for eventual consistency. I think even credit card payments for transit also make that sacrifice. I had a weird experience using a Visa card to pay for a tram ride because they were promoting it and had a discount. The machine indicated success and let me through, but since I rarely used the card, somehow the payment didn't go through afterwards (the credit card was in a very weird state). If they insisted that all the payment transactions complete successfully for a transit payment, it would be too inconvenient and unreliable to use.

lsch1033 1mo ago

FeliCa (or called NFC Type-F) is so great and the fact that it's dominant in Japan even made Apple to include FeliCa support on global iPhones!

kenjackson 1mo ago

There also seems to be some state logic as well. The card knows when I’m in the middle of a trip and doesn’t update the balance until a future tap when it can determine the extent of the trip (presumably). Very cool that it’s all done locally.

haunter 1mo ago

The best thing that you can add a Suica, PASMO, ICOCA, or TOICA card anytime to your Apple Wallet. You don't even have to be Japan. Just add transit pass and that's all, when you are there you can start using it instantly. But it works with a lot of cards all around the world (Hong Kong Octopus, Korea Tmoney, SF Clipper etc.) it's in the Wallet app itself.

slillibri 1mo ago

For me, other than the speed and convenience, I was amazed that I could use my same Suica card (on my iPhone) in Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, and Fukuoka. Even though each region has their own card, they have mutual use in most areas.

syntaxing 1mo ago

If you get a children’s card, they print your kids name right on it. It’s a nice little souvenir to keep.

spicyjpeg 1mo ago

The FeliCa NFC standard made its way into more than just transit cards in Japan. One notable user is the Amusement IC network, which lets you quickly log into arcade games across multiple manufacturers using a single card. Some implementations (Konami's e-amusement most notably) even go as far as to allow any FeliCa-compatible card or device to be linked to a profile, including transit cards, phones (with no app required!) and certain models of Sony Bluetooth earbuds which use FeliCa for quick pairing.

kalleboo 1mo ago
> Some implementations even go as far as to allow any FeliCa-compatible card or device to be linked to a profile This is also put in use in many karaoke joints to save a list of your favorite songs/song history.

MisterTea 1mo ago

Coming from NYC and being used to swiping once to pay a flat fair, my first Suica lesson was they vary the fair by the distance traveled. This means you have to tap in AND out of buses and subways. It was a bit embarrassing and frustrating when I almost could not board a bus in Sapporo with my friends after they all tapped in and my card was rejected. WTF? Thankfully the bus driver showed me a sign in English telling me I forgot to tap out of a station or bus. Oh. He let me board the bus with my friends. Found a train station and the woman at the counter began holding up a series of English signs so we could figure out where I forgot to tap out to ensure the correct charge is applied then sent me on my way. Turns out I goofed up transferring between the Tokyo subway and Shinkansen where I didn't tap out of the subway, got stuck, and a frustrated transit worker just opened the gate to let my dumb tourist ass through meaning I didn't tap out of the subway. I was floored when I found out you could pay for stuff with my "Japanese MetroCard." It's quite a wonderful system.

rangestransform 1mo ago
We should have tap in/out in NYC too, it gives another opportunity to catch a fare evader
- crote 1mo ago
  It also allows for easy in-transit checking: anyone on the "secure" side of the fare gates must be in possession of a card whose last transaction was a tap-in. There's no chance of a cheeky "it wasn't me who jumped the turnstyles - it was my lookalike", and you can have roaming groups of ticket validators who board random carriages and check everyone.
nihonde 1mo ago
99% sure you passed through a transfer gate in Tokyo station that requires you to produce two "tickets" (physical or virtual)—one for subway and one for Shinkansen. Always plenty confusing. I have to hold my phone (Suica app) and an EX card (Shinkansen card) together for a dual-NFC tap. I always forget one or the other.
- 1mo ago

rrr_oh_man 1mo ago

> fast What are y'all comparing it with? I’ve tried to find videos online but they all seem… normal?

OneDeuxTriSeiGo 1mo ago
It's normal speed for a transit card. in that you can tap and walk without slowing down. But it's really quite fast compared to more general balance card services like NFC/tap to pay, etc.
dadoum 1mo ago
Probably compared to widespread MIFARE cards or more complex Calypso cards, which are noticeably slower (not a dealbreaker though imo).

alexmuresan 1mo ago

I was hoping the author would also discuss a bit more about the security / encryption side of it. If transactions are done only between the card and the reader, could one use a reader at home to alter the balance? If you can load the card on you phone I assume you can use the phone to read it, but that might not be true. Anyway it was a great read! Glad to see somebody writing without (obvious) use of LLMs.

KateLawson 1mo ago
Various versions of these cards could be accessed to change the balance, including extracting the key by differential power analysis [edit] Looks like this finally became public recently https://www.techtimes.com/articles/321138/20260721/japan-confirms-cryptographic-flaw-legacy-sony-felica-cards-no-patch-available.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/321138/20260721/japan-con...

RIMR 1mo ago

>Project leader Akio Shiibashi originally set a symbolic launch target: January 1, 2001, the first day of the new millennium. I'm getting off-topic here, but I really appreciate it when people get this date right.

rippeltippel 1mo ago

How is it different from the Oyster card in London?

haunter 1mo ago
Suica works virtually everywhere https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/suicamoney/shop.html https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/suicamoney/shop.html Imagine if you could pay with the Oyster card everywhere from Tesco to Greggs to National Rail to Uber Actually you can find some small family shops, restaurants etc where they don't accept credit cards but Suica only

LM37 1mo ago

I’ve visited Tokyo four times, and I’ve been using the same Suica card since my very first trip! I love it, and I’d really like to collect all the Suica-like cards, such as PASMO, ICOCA, Kitaca, and more. I love it when little everyday things bring a tiny bit of happiness and color into daily life. (for more info: https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2359_003.html https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2359_003.html)

tines 1mo ago

Weird romanization, wouldn't it be "suika"? There's no "ca" grapheme in common Japanese romanization systems iirc.

charcircuit 1mo ago
The article explains it is romanized that way since it comes from "card".

charcircuit 1mo ago

>Every Suica card has a chip storing two things: a unique card ID, and your current balance. This is not true. It also stores some history on where you have last entered so it can do things like transfers or block you from exiting an area that you never entered.

pohuing 1mo ago
And they're also easy to read. So if you find a wallet you can figure out where the owner lives for a visit/s Was a bit shocked to find that I can just read my suica using my European Pixel. I had expected that part to be encrypted somehow.

juliansimioni 1mo ago

I am literally on a flight to Japan right now, and one of my main goals is to add a Suica card to my collection of transit cards from around the world (currently 31 cards large). Sadly physical cards may only have a few years left, for the most part using tap-to-ride is superior. So I really have to get out there and grab them while I can.

MarkSweep 1mo ago
A noble goal. Last I heard the best bet to gete a physical Suica card is to get the Welcome Suica. It is available at a few airports and a few large train stations: https://www.jreast.co.jp/en/multi/welcomesuica/welcomesuica.html https://www.jreast.co.jp/en/multi/welcomesuica/welcomesuica....
- juliansimioni 1mo ago
  I got both (because of course I did) with no problem. The welcome Suica came with a free notebook which I’m also using to collect the Japan Rail stamps https://www.jrailpass.com/blog/eki-train-stamps https://www.jrailpass.com/blog/eki-train-stamps

parl_match 1mo ago

i imagine not being reliant on american payment networks for your nation's retail economy has lit a fire under their asses.

pjc50 1mo ago
Hardly, the country is still heavily cash-using, and where transitioning to electronic payments the local PayPay system seems to be popular. Suica payments for stores are basically only for dense areas of Tokyo.
- parl_match 1mo ago
  Hardly? Credit cards passed cash for retail purchases last year. They're neck and neck. If you break down by age demographic, you'll probably guess who's using what. And the ones using cash are quickly disappearing. And let's say it wasn't, and if cash was still king: 10% of Japan's payments infra being weaponized during tariff negotiations would still be a huge dent to their economy. The country had been migrating over heavily, but Trump 2 actions put the brakes on a lot of EMV rollout. PayPay is an evolution/merge of Line Pay (long story), which struggled to capture market share in Japan past peer-to-peer payments, due to a bunch of factors. You'll see it in stores, of course, but it's adoption isn't amazing (not bad, just not amazing). Suica benefits from FeliCa/NFC-F lock-in, and considerable existing deployment, plus integration with the rail network. Almost everyone in Japan has a FeliCa/NFC-F device with currency loaded. FWIW I am an American, but I am working on payments infrastructure and billing for a American owned subsidiary of a Japanese corporation. This happens to be a subject that I am wading into on a daily basis, at least from a technical side. Oh, and you might be interested to hear what's happening in the UK with OysterCard. They recently finished their EMV rollout and then paused all OysterCard sunset timelines. I wonder why.

alerighi 1mo ago

Maybe it was advanced for the time being created, to me it's just any other RFID card that is issued everywhere else in the world in the matter of read speed, from every public transit card that I find in every EU country I've visited (maybe for a US citizen not used to public transit it seems something special, I don't know), to skipasses, to even your gym card. Having the option to also pay with credit card would be much more convenient to tourists, when I visited Japan I've had difficulties finding the right place to get a SUICA card (being that my Android phone didn't have Felica chip, as most phones sold outside Japan), and on top of that you almost everywhere need to charge it with only cash. And you can charge it only by 500 or 1000 yen at the time (depending on the machine), and of course tickets always have not round prices like 110 yen. And you have 500 yen of deposit for a card that probably costs to them 10 yen to manufacturer, unless you get the red SUICA card that you can get only in some special machines at the airport but with that you don't get back the unused credit when you leave (you can spend it at vending machine tough). So the speed saving of a couple of ms of not having to pay by tapping your normal credit card is completely vanished by wasting time to charge that card. BTW even if they don't want to put credit card POS on every station (I get it, it's expensive and they need to pay fees if someone uses a card, compared to cash) they could make a system that uses regular NFC (would be 100ms slower, who cares) at least for tourists so they can use it with a regular NFC card in their phone wallet that they can charge with an app without requiring a technology that only works in phone sold in Japan?

makeitdouble 1mo ago
There is a perhaps a trend of local payment means being less accessible to tourists. I haven't experienced it first hand but WeChat/Alipay are in the same boat as I understand, and PromptPay in Indonesia can be somewhat be used but needs preparation before making the trip. Now, if you're not a tourist passing by for 3 days, Suica has most of your gripes solved and is an incredibly useful general payment mean. I use the Felica version on my phone (so no card), charge it with 3 taps in the app from my credit card, could have it auto charge if I really wanted to and is my payment choice wherever QR codes or QuickPay won't cut it. BTW you can now use your credit card to ride JR trains.
- 1mo ago

mrbonner 1mo ago

I’m going to Japan soon. Should I just use the iPhone Suica version or get the physical one?

fizwidget 1mo ago
I was in Japan last year. iPhone version was super easy and worked flawlessly for me.
- franksvalli 1mo ago
  Agree! Just a heads up for folks that you’ll likely want to download the Welcome Suica app which is aimed at tourists. The regular Suica app is separate and is not English-friendly (this may be worth it for you only if you’re staying long term, ok with the language barrier, and want a card that doesn’t expire).
- mrbonner 1mo ago
  Is it the Apple Wallet version or the actual Suica app? I'm wondering about the Apple Wallet one.
  - thrdbndndn 1mo ago
    Apple Wallet version is enough for 99% case. You do need the suica app for things like purchasing green car ticket etc.
deleted 1mo ago
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cube00 1mo ago

When you tap your card on a terminal, it reads and rewrites the card locally in an instant, with the entire transaction processed in under 200 milliseconds. It's depressing that some transport systems around the world delivered decades later couldn't match this (using a proprietary card not a credit card), looking at you Myki.

chrysoprace 1mo ago

In the past I've purchased a rail pass because I figured it'd be more economical but last trip we just got a couple of IC cards and just booked our shinkansen and that was honestly the best experience. The problem with the rail pass was that it could only be used on some services, and the IC card was usable on most. The most confusing thing is just figuring out which local transport companies have a slightly different network, but it was honestly not bad.

Lammy 1mo ago

Even though I've never been to Japan I have one of these loaded onto my phone so I can use it to sign in to beatmaniaⅡᴅx arcade machines lol

varun_ch 1mo ago

I’m in Japan right now on a holiday and I was blown away by how easy it was to get set up with Suica through Apple Wallet / Apple Pay. In fact, I did the initial set up back home in Toronto just by tapping a few buttons in the native Apple Wallet app. Took probably 30 seconds. It is so convenient to use Express Transit Cards on iOS… I also just found out that there’s something similar for Presto cards in Toronto so I’m going to have to set that up too.

cmiles8 1mo ago

The combination of its speed and universal acceptance across Japan makes this by far the best system anywhere. Despite being decades old, it’s still better than “new” systems being rolled out elsewhere. Want to buy a drink while waiting for your train? Just tap the same card. It’s magical and way faster than ApplePay or similar tech.

thisumang 1mo ago

Suica is amazing until it isn't, recharge with credit cards can be a miss. Doesn't work everywhere in Japan too.

weberer 1mo ago
When I visited, my Visa card didn't work anywhere except 7-11 ATMs for some payment network reason. So the Suica card was a lifesaver.

daremocooon 1mo ago

I live in Tokyo and use my Suica almost every day. Suica is very convenient because it makes entering station gates very smooth. I have a question: how do people enter stations in cities outside of Japan? I have never been outside of Japan, so I was curious.

klausa 1mo ago
Depends on where. Many cities have their own cards, that are used for transit only (so no vending machines etc., and no interoperability between cities), increasingly many places just let you use your credit card in place of the special transit card, some places (Germany, some parts of Scandinavia) don’t have ticket gates at all.
crote 1mo ago
In The Netherlands it is exactly the same, just from a different vendor and with different branding. Of course the "not invented here" mentality resulted in it being woefully insecure when it was introduced in 2014, and NFC tap-to-pay with credit/debit cards, smartphones, and wearables still isn't properly implemented. They now made the decision to completely retire the current RFID solution, because the chip vendor discontinued the lineup it relies on. Its replacement proprietary card is based on NFC tap-to-pay, so on top of terrible product compatibility during the transition period we're also getting a nice extra tap-in delay out of it.
pjc50 1mo ago
Most countries have a similar system in the most popular places. London Oyster may be technically not as fast but it's the same basic experience. The challenge in the UK is getting tap-to-pay through bank cards onto all the little local bus operators.
mailund 1mo ago
In Norway, the trains and subway don't have physical barriers, you just enter! You will get a fine if you are stopped in a random control without a valid ticket (although the controllers are apparently reasonably lenient if you can show that you usually have an active ticket and just happened to forget), but there's nothing physically stopping you from trying! I believe the reason is mostly historical (it wasn't deemed necessary when most of the system was built, and the later attempt to introduce the gates later failed for a bunch of different reasons)

ggm 1mo ago

Why was it quicker? Better antenna & RF analog circuit design? Shorter software path to token recognition? Single vendor vertical integration? Protocol overheads?

Gud 1mo ago

Ok, this might sound great but it's really not. I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the station, anywhere. There are multiple ways to purchase a ticket, I usually use the app Fairtiq or the official SBB app, where I swipe right before boarding the train/tram/bus(it's a national system, so even works on the regional networks) and swipe left when I'm done with my travel. It then calculates the best price for me. If I do multiple journeys, it will know what I should have gotten a 24 hour pass, and subsequent travel is free. tap in/tap off sucks no matter how good the system is. It is fundamentally a wrong think. I travel by public transport in many countries, I travel over the world for work, it is my preferred mode of transport. Switzerland has by far the best ideas. Luxembourg is great as well, totally free, but small.

ororoo 1mo ago
go try it out, it works great in japan. it fundamentally works.
- Gud 1mo ago
  I've used many similar systems. Netherlands has an identical system. I prefer when there are no turnstiles or other forms of gates blocking my way. Just step onto the train.
soco 1mo ago
True, the Swiss is the simplest way around - and in planning is to activate it even without swiping (I'm not sure I remember details): But let's face it the tap system is not that far behind, because in some implementations it can do that calculation by itself (I believe having seen it in London?) so at the end of the day you end up paying the optimal price.
- Gud 1mo ago
  The problem is that the tap in/tap off is an unnecessary inconvenience. I often travel with suitcases(always on the road for my work) and it's a pain in the ass sometimes due to the mechanism in my way. Why should I have to fiddle with some card, just to verify I've paid? Every day, for the rest of my life? I prefer the Swiss way, where there are random checks. These random checks are done everywhere else anyway. It just seems that these boundaries have been put in place because some people believe that they are necessary. They may be necessary in some locations(London, like you mentioned) but I doubt they are necessary in Japan.

miki123211 1mo ago

The chips in these cards are a perfect example of a computer you own but don't control, and when that's a good thing. The only reason fast transit cards work is that the chips on them are under control of the transit agency, and designed in a way that makes it impossible for the card owner to hack in and modify the balance. If somebody finds a fundamental flaw in Suica, I suspect things will get pretty interesting indeed. If you tried to implement Suica with cards where the card owner had full control, you would have to do this with asymmetric keys, cryptographic signatures, and a round trip to the server for every transaction.

gregjw 1mo ago

All the IC cards are great, so useful, I even use one for identification at my office.

WorseIsBetter 1mo ago

[flagged]

philipwhiuk 1mo ago

I was expecting it to be a massive hassle but the Apple Wallet integration surprised me. It was so easy to create a card and add funds Credit to the Suica folk and Apple folk for making it seamless. As for the speed.. idk I think it's about as quick as the Oyster card. Phone payments have a bunch of extra latency on TfL too.

bayindirh 1mo ago

> They found that tilting the reader exactly 13.5 degrees made it match the natural ergonomic motion of a hand moving forward. Japan is, due to its history and culture, is very good at finding these kinds of nature inspired solutions to their somewhat hard problems in a very elegant way. I really like them when they do that. This is why some of the Japanese wares look a bit unconventional but extremely delightful to use.