16 ms·

I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

• senor_digimon 3mo ago
  I still dream about that dockable Ubuntu phone.
  • deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
  • seba_dos1 3mo ago
    Why? The phone I've been using for the last 6 years, Librem 5, can just be docked to a screen, keyboard and mouse and used this way, running a Debian system. It's not even the only one available with such capability. Your dream has been there for a while now.
• fsflover 3mo ago
  Did you consider postmarketOS? https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_4_(fairphone-fp4) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_4_(fairphone-fp...
  • chias 3mo ago
    The author mentions this in the second paragraph...
  • sudobash1 3mo ago
    I'm sure he did. It is mentioned in TFA.
  • hagbard_c 3mo ago
    He did: "The mobile linux space isn't exactly looking good right now, but it holds some promise. Ubuntu Touch managed to survive being abandoned by Canonical, and postmarket is still seeing good development even if not having great hardware adapation at the moment."
    • fsflover 3mo ago
      Thank you, I missed it.
  • zb3 3mo ago
    Number of devices fully supported: 0 Oh, you linked to Fairphone 4, let's see: - battery: partial - audio: partial - camera: partial - fingerprint: broken postmarketOS device support is a joke, they couldn't even get ONE vendor to support the OS..
    • MYEUHD 3mo ago
      Purism Librem 5 is fully supported: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Purism_Librem5_(purism-librem5) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Purism_Librem5_(purism-li...
    • realusername 3mo ago
      I'd say the OnePlus 6 is fully supported so it's one device at least (the stuff that isn't on it is minor). Mainlining is very hard though so the results are expected
      • droserasprout 3mo ago
        I can confirm this holding OP6 (enchilada) in my hands — it's a flagship postmarketOS device. It also has other nerd options available — Sailfish and Windows (Renegade Project) — but obviously with poor hardware support. I highly recommend keeping an eye on postmarketOS blog. [1] It's a fun reading, and development's been really rapid lately. What stopped me from full migration to pmOS the last time I tried it about a year ago was poor support of Magisk and Xposed in Waydroid, two things I can't imagine using Android apps without. But! With some tricks you can get pmOS dualboot on OP6. [2] Haven't tried it, but looks amazing. I think with the current direction and velocity, pmOS is going to get really close to Android in usability on supported hardware in the next couple of years. Except for power saving parity that never gonna happen. [1] https://postmarketos.org/blog/ https://postmarketos.org/blog/ [2] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/OnePlus_6_(oneplus-enchilada)/Multi_Booting_and_Custom_Partitioning https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/OnePlus_6_(oneplus-enchil...
        • zb3 3mo ago
          You misunderstood my comment.. this level of "support" is based on hacks = volunteer work, where the community working together (for free) is able to support one device "almost" completely after only 8 years, relying on hacks/reverse engineering etc.. But it's not like OnePlus or Qualcomm officially supports that, right? They didn't have any deal with any OEM where there would be someone employed to support the OS.. (even though they receive donations) Like, all this is.. not serious.. the closest alternative to Android/iOS is GrapheneOS, because there are full-time employees AND they have a partnership with Motorola, so they won't have to rely on any hacks.. well obviously that's unaffordable but it's a different story.
• EtienneDeLyon 3mo ago
  [dead]
• pizzaballs 3mo ago
  This perfectly captures the "death by a thousand papercuts" reality of modern Android. Google honors the open-source letter of the law with AOSP while systematically destroying its spirit by moving vital APIs into closed-source Google Mobile Services (GMS).We are seeing the exact same playbook play out on our wrists right now with Wear OS. Google recently mandated the Watch Face Format (WFF) via Watch Face Studio (WFS). Under the guise of battery optimization, they stripped developers of the ability to run executable native code for watch faces. It is now just a declarative XML format rendered by the OS.Whether it is the core OS framework or a simple smartwatch complication, Google’s strategy remains identical: hollow out the open ecosystem, deprecate local developer execution, and force everyone into their centralized, closed garden.
  • TheCoelacanth 3mo ago
    Google needs to be forced to divest Android and Chrome. It's the only solution to this problem.
  • fooo1882992 3mo ago
    There's a name for that strategy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
• t1234s 3mo ago
  Google Play Services ruins dream of this. I've noticed that automotive digital keys don't work with Graphine OS due to how Google Wallet works.
  • downrightmike 3mo ago
    What about real keys?
    • bpavuk 3mo ago
      a technology of bygone times. we shall preserve it
  • prmoustache 3mo ago
    I thought I would miss google wallet but after 2 years of using graphene I came to the conclusion that it is easy to live without it. A non problem imho.
  • shakna 3mo ago
    Or most banks, government apps, and so on. Which all require an app to login, rather than support any open and actually secure standard.
    • MrDrMcCoy 3mo ago
      Governments that require any particular device, OS, or 3rd-party platform have sold your citizenship to private interests.
      • DataDynamo 3mo ago
        But what's your choice as a citizen then - emigrate from your country due to apps?
        • inigyou 3mo ago
          Show up to the government office. Say you don't have a compatible phone. Wait until they find a solution for you. I guarantee the government is not forcing 95-year-old Betsy in bumfuck nowhere with no cell coverage to learn how to use a phone. They have some solution, they're just not making it obvious.
• utopiah 3mo ago
  > If I have an issue or something I want to tinker with I can just ssh over from my PC either wirelessly or via USB. FWIW one can also do that on stock Android or its GrapheneOS variant pretty conveniently, including storage access, am, boot background processes, etc. It is not as complete as being root on Linux proper but still.
  • AshamedCaptain 3mo ago
    This is often said but if you want to "diagnose" something then the terribly limited Android shell is about the last place you want to be, and a sandboxed one on top of it is worse ....
    • imkac 3mo ago
      Why debug your daily driven phone? You can use Cuttlefish or anything else.
      • AshamedCaptain 3mo ago
        I think you forgot what the "H" in "HN" means.
• MarkWayneNewton 3mo ago
  Shoutout to Purism... if you got the loot. https://puri.sm/products/liberty-phone/ https://puri.sm/products/liberty-phone/
  • joey64 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    • pdabbadabba 3mo ago
      As an American, I also find this repulsive.
    • sroerick 3mo ago
      Even if you're sour on American exceptionalism, this seems like a valid and good product to me, both from a privacy standpoint and from an ethical labor standpoint? Am I the only one who remembers the suicide nets at Foxconn?
      • deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
      • lstodd 3mo ago
        [flagged]
  • hamper653 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    • lenerdenator 3mo ago
      That's more of a German/Austrian thing, really.
      • hamper653 3mo ago
        Are you telling me the US don’t actually make anything, not even their guns?
• felooboolooomba 3mo ago
  Not to mention that your android/ios device is still shipping a bunch of bluetooth tokens for "track and trace" system. Cryptographically signed to you. https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing
  • pdabbadabba 3mo ago
    > Cryptographically signed to you. That's a bit of an oversimplification that makes this sound more concerning than it is. Not that it's 100% un-concerning, but I suggest that anyone concerned about this read the linked docs. It really was designed to be quite privacy preserving, though it's obviously a difficult challenge in this context.
    • hamhock666 3mo ago
      Isn’t this GPS data to see where Covid has spread? Even if your name is anonymous, a GPS point that every day goes to your work and then your home is surely you?
      • wolletd 3mo ago
        Most probably, yes. But how would you know who I am and where I live? And if you do know both of those things, are there other ways of figuring out my routines? Yes, there are. Keeping the name out of that data does a lot for privacy. With a name in there, you could use the data to find my name and figure out my address. Without the name in there, you don't know which point I even am without knowing some of my locations from another source.
        • shakna 3mo ago
          Correlating data with another source is half of what data brokers do, so I wouldn't really say that is any level of privacy protection.
      • neobrain 3mo ago
        Where are you getting GPS from? Grandparent commenter talked about bluetooth beacons and parent suggested reading the docs. The contact tracing APIs very deliberately avoided GPS for exactly the reason you mention.
• remix2000 3mo ago
  Switching from Android style Linux HAL to FreeDesktop style Linux HAL… I honestly think we need more Linux HAL options than just those two, when one is threatening to self-destruct and the other is arguably the single worst interface design ever conceived, by all measurements.
  • doublepg23 3mo ago
    Can you expand on this? I did follow the “Moblin/Maemo/MeeGo” forks back in the day and it struck me as odd Android pulled off the HAL layer but “Linux” was unable to.
    • remix2000 3mo ago
      Every [Linux based] OS usually needs some sort of HAL to wrap [ioctl] driver calls into APIs that can be consumed by more than one process at a time. Nokia/Moblin/Sailfish use Freedesktop style HALs, i.e. stuff like Wayland, Pipewire, anything accessible over DBus (which also implies extremely slow IPC by any standards; mach ipc on apple's darwins is probably faster [sobs]). Basically I'm suggesting that we might need a whole new OS on top of the Linux kernel.
      • thyristan 3mo ago
        I guess we just need the DBUS developers to get their heads out of their asses, that's all: https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/6/23/657 https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/6/23/657
        • remix2000 3mo ago
          Nah, DBus itself is plain bad interface design. Perhaps they could just piggyback off Binder if DBus itself weren't beyond saving. Also, despite a common sentiment online, it's not at all a complex process to implement a Binder userspace (given you have a sensible IDL in the first place, that is…) Wrt/ torvie's narcissistic snarks linked above, the most important task for a kernel is still to facilitate fast IPC. The only viable forms of IPC in Linux are UDS and Binder. The former is slow and clunky. The latter is not a valid choice for DBus. So DBus devs have to manage slow, clunky, ill-suited legacy IPC. When a kernel can't be bothered to accommodate one of the most important operating systems built upon it, that seems really bad.
• preisschild 3mo ago
  "I'm switching my phone from <free software> to <proprietary software>" Why not just use an Android AOSP distribution? SailfishOS is proprietary. It will be a lot more "locked down" than LineageOS/GrapheneOS.
  • toastal 3mo ago
    Sailfish has some proprietary stuff to deal with the Android & Sony as well as Qt being Qt. Much of their software is open source—& collaborative with translations & forums for feedback. Out of the box, you on Sailfish you get root support which lets you actually be the device owner. You are allowed to install whatever software from wherever you want… things Android no longer is. It’s not a flawless platform, but Android in practice gives you so, so little control over your actual device.
• charcircuit 3mo ago
  >I've become more and more dissatisfied with the path Google has taken with the Android Open Source Project (AOSP). Be it the dependency and insane tracking of Google Play Services AOSP does not include nor depend on Play Services. >locking down of device trees to hinder custom ROM development Most manufacturers do not distribute these either. The user doesn't even have a pixel so it is not relevant. >all the AI stuff being put into the system The AI stuff is not part of AOSP. >or most recently (and perhaps worst), removing the ability of installing apps per your own wishing - it's become sort of like a "death by a thousand papercuts" situation. Again that is not a feature of AOSP, but one bolted in on top of it. I think the author would benefit much more by using a different distribution of AOSP.
  • aucisson_masque 3mo ago
    Aosp without Google play services is dead. You need it more and more to run apps.
    • getpokedagain 3mo ago
      This is only true of ye olde apps from shitty banks and the like.
    • hagbard_c 3mo ago
      Strange, I've been using it for about 15 years on many different devices and it works just fine. Maybe that is related to the fact that I tend to shun closed-source applications whenever possible? The few closed-source apps I do use - Swedish BankID, Deutsche Bahn 'Navigator', Dutch DigiD - also work as intended even though some of them - mostly the Swedish BankID - claim they 'need Google Services to work'. Click away the popup and it works just fine without it so that is clearly not true. On some devices I installed microG to see whether it does what they claim but while this seems to be the case I don't think it is needed for those keeping their devices mostly free from proprietary applications. This is not a hardship, far from it. Nearly all the types of applications I want to use are available as free software which also tends to make them ad-free, spyware-free and generally less of a nuisance than proprietary alternatives.
    • 3mo ago
• burningChrome 3mo ago
  I've tried a few times over the years to make Ubuntu Touch work. God how bad I wanted it to work here in the US. The lack of apps and VoLTE support really soured me on it ever working here. If you're outside of the US, the availability of useable mobile OS's outside of Android and iOS is pretty abundant compared to the situation here in the US.
  • bpavuk 3mo ago
    Ukraine. Diia (open-source govt services app) likely won't work. monobank either. on banks there is also Oshchad, Privat, Pumb, and none of them will work on Linux. GPay is a staple, I don't even have a plastic card (mono customer) because it's so good to just not fuck with keeping plastic around. plus there is a strong Quick Share culture, which I don't see working on Linux particularly well
    • Underphil 3mo ago
      Just curious... are you unable to get a physical card or just don't want to?
      • bpavuk 3mo ago
        just don't want to. it would be nonsensical to get it since all functionality that was provided by ATMs in pre-mobile age mono provides only via an app. ATMs log in through app and only exist to accept cash, so I can't use it as a "secondary authentication method" in ATMs or check my balance outside the app.
        • Underphil 3mo ago
          Everyone's situation is different I suppose. But I do tire when people choose the convenience over the freedom. Not saying that's what you're doing, but I hear it often enough.
          • bpavuk 3mo ago
• dotfrag 3mo ago
  May as well just get an old school Nokia and skip the smartphone technology all together. Get yourself a nice flip phone and go back to the early 2000's. If you need to do something online, just bring your laptop with you - some are so small that they're easy to carry around in a backpack or side bag.
  • colourclash 3mo ago
    Or a Commodore phone. They're pretty snazzy. https://commodore.net/callback/ https://commodore.net/callback/
  • LtWorf 3mo ago
    You cannot get an old school nokia because 3g networks are gone, so they won't work.
    • jbstack 3mo ago
      I think they meant old school style rather than literally a Nokia from 20+ years ago. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_2660_Flip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_2660_Flip
      • deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
• n3storm 3mo ago
  Mobian is where my hope is...
• friendlypenguin 3mo ago
  I really want to leave the Google and Apple Ecosystems, but I still need "these" Banking Apps. Some Banks don't even offer a Web based experience anymore.
  • amelius 3mo ago
    Why doesn't the EU force these banks to support all platforms including web? I mean, if they can force Microsoft to support other browsers than IE6, then why can't they force banks?
    • Eric_WVGG 3mo ago
      Not sure why this is getting downvoted (or why IE6 is being brought up in 2026). But yes, banks are super-highly regulated and for good reason. They’re subject to all sorts of accessibility laws, there’s loads of precedent here.
    • OJFord 3mo ago
      I expect everyone who can conceive of something other than Android or iOS* on a phone is on HN, and not a bureaucrat in Brussels. *(or BB, webOS, Windows Phone 7 Phone OS Phone Microsoft, Symbian, etc. if old enough)
      • BirAdam 3mo ago
        PalmOS and webOS were the best.
      • izacus 3mo ago
        Why not have US Federal Government enforce this instead? It's way more impactful for most HN users. Why wait for Brussels beaurocrats we all have this much and not have the most important tech country in the world make this law?
        • OJFord 3mo ago
          ..sure? I don't personally care what either enforces, since I'm in neither jurisdiction. I wouldn't have thought the US is any more (or even as) likely to personally, but sure. I said Brussels because comment I replied to said EU.
• summermusic 3mo ago
  Is there such thing as a palm-sized mobile PC that can just run a desktop Linux distribution (or Windows for that matter) that supports mobile features (calling, SMS, and data)? Even if it has rough edges or compromises?
  • TheRoque 3mo ago
    What's wrong with just Android?
    • bpavuk 3mo ago
      Google!
    • tester457 3mo ago
      There's a powerlessness to using Android. It's difficult to just do things. Even windows feels more "free." Phone OSes are built like prisons. Ideally Android would let you drop into a real shell, without having to deal with android sandboxing. Regardless, I use termux and tasker to get my automations done.
      • streb-lo 3mo ago
        Probably because carriers don't want a bunch of poorly secured devices on their networks.
        • gruez 3mo ago
          They don't seem to put much effort in proactively blocking residential VPNs though?
        • dsr_ 3mo ago
          Counter-evidence: the Google Play Store, which is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. And also malware.
          • armadyl 3mo ago
• pelzatessa 3mo ago
  Been daily driving ubports for about 4 years now (OP5T, Noble). The system has its quirks, it sometimes reboots without reason (though its rare, I experience something like that once a month), the videos in web browser sometimes glitch in a weird way and sometimes don't play at all, the camera stops working and needs a reboot. The lack of banking apps and maps with live traffic is irritating (although unav is great, shoutouts to the guy who made it), a problem that could be solved using waydroid but I don't want to use it out of principle. Otherwise it covers all my needs, has working phone, SMS and MMS (I'm from Europe), web browser, matrix and mail clients, TOTP manager (necessary for work), and is totally linux which allows me to do cool things like using pulseaudio sinks to connect my laptop to phone that is connected to speakers and use it as wireless aux (works janky, but it works :) ). It obviously hasn't got many apps compared to the competition, but new ones are continuously being developed by the community. I tried developing an app myself but haven't got the time, fortunately it's much easier now with AI because I remember that one attempt at creating a simple app for enabling some daemon a few years ago was cut short by not-quite clear documentation of the clickable app development system. It needs to be said that I'm certainly not the greatest programmer in the world though :) If you're a technical guy and you feel like the android and ios are both pretty much destroyed by corporate overlords, then I sincerely invite you to try UBports or SailfishOS (from my research I find these two the most beginner friendly). The experience most certainly will hurt (at the beginning), but the sooner more people start using it, the sooner more people will start contributing to linux on phone and make our systems better. I was nervous that I would not survive without android and its entire app catalog and maps, or that a moment would come at work or in some critical situation that I would need android for some dumb reason and wouldn't be able to do something and spaghetti would fall out of my pockets, but for the last 4 years nothing like that happened. The most painful thing for me are probably the maps, but when I need long distance GPS with live traffic, I'll most certainly be driving with someone, so I just ask the passenger to navigate :) for less important voyages the unav is completely fine, there's also puremaps which I haven't tested.
• deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
• tombert 3mo ago
  I have thought about buying one of the Pinephone things, because I want to actually own the computer in my pocket, but I have always hesitated because the hardware is always kind of ancient for these things. The Pinephone doesn’t even have 5G, so I am not even sure that my phone service will let me activate it now. What I would like is to take my existing iPhone 13 Pro and install a real Linux on it so I could guarantee decent hardware. You know, like we could do with pretty much any computer before smartphones.
  • TacticalCoder 3mo ago
    > You know, like we could do with pretty much any computer before smartphones. I don't remember all the details but I had a Mac G3 around the same time I started using Linux: I don't remember the story about installing Linux no Mac hardware as being a particularly easy one. Now I'm not saying that years after the fact, Linux wouldn't run fine on Intel Macs. But if I recall correctly it always has been a bit of a bumpy road.
    • tombert 3mo ago
      I didn't have a Mac in that era, but I did have a Macbook Air from 2014 and I ran Ubuntu and NixOS on it just fine, even at the time. I had to use rEFInd but it wasn't terribly hard. On modern Macs, it's pretty easy to install Linux with Avahi. To be clear, I don't necessarily need it to be easy to put another OS on there. I just want it to be possible. As far as I'm aware, there's no way (officially or unofficially) to install another OS on any recent iPhones. Someone might eventually figure out how to break the bootloader on the iPhone 13, but I personally think it should be something that the owner of the phone is allowed to opt into.
  • snazz 3mo ago
    5G is probably not a requirement for your phone service (although I can’t say for sure). The critical bit on networks in the U.S. and many other countries without 2G or 3G is VoLTE for phone calls and texts, which it does support. Some carriers have device whitelists that are only loosely related to technical features, though.
• runjake 3mo ago
  This read like a lot of pain and suffering. I've tried this for kicks myself. There's a lot of sacrifices to be made. But I'm rooting for anything Linux on smartphones.
  • Hackbraten 3mo ago
    I've been daily driving a Linux phone for three years. The suffering was real. It's mostly gone now, I love it and will definitely never go back.
    • softfalcon 3mo ago
      That sounds very interesting to hear about! What diminished the day-to-day difficulty for you? Is it because the ecosystem became more mature, or did you "crack the code" for how to interface with everything you needed from your phone? Is your use-case for a phone wildly different from that of a typical user? It's really cool to hear that someone is successfully daily driving it and making this ecosystem work for them!
      • Hackbraten 3mo ago
        > What diminished the day-to-day difficulty for you? Is it because the ecosystem became more mature, or did you "crack the code" for how to interface with everything you needed from your phone? Neither! I just got accustomed to doing without stuff. That’s an effect I wildly underestimated. Many things are still difficult (looking at you, CloudFlare [0] and DataDome [1]!) but I think I’ll manage. > Is your use-case for a phone wildly different from that of a typical user? Not really, I guess. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45816826 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45816826 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48921224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48921224
    • seba_dos1 3mo ago
      I've been daily driving Linux phones for the last 18 years and I would never switch away. Sure, at the beginning it required you to make it your hobby, but you were being rewarded for it. Sometimes when I'm looking at Android/iOS devices being used over someone's shoulder I'm quite horrified at what I see and what people consider normal these days and so glad that my phone works for me rather than anyone else.
• jauntywundrkind 3mo ago
  I wish we'd see some progress on this from the phone makers. It's so disappointing what a stranglehold Android somehow has. Nokia was so on the eve of greatness before they threw it all away and burned their good platform. FairPhone 4 is a pretty ancient cpu. I guess it's benching a bit above the OnePlus 6/6t that has been a go-to for a good fraction of a decade now. https://browser.geekbench.com/v7/cpu/84602 https://browser.geekbench.com/v7/cpu/84602 https://browser.geekbench.com/v7/cpu/5200 https://browser.geekbench.com/v7/cpu/5200 Motorola at least seems to be moving to unlock bootloaders. ARM gpus have some ok drivers now (thanks collabora & many others), which, a decade ago seemed like way way way more than the universe was ever going to allow. I still think Samsung, with their new mountains of market cap, should try to do better. Exynos is right there, with an RDNA GPU just begging for the world's best drivers to take advantage of the hardware you already ship. You could make a stunner! Why not try?
• smusamashah 3mo ago
  Now that making apps is easy, and it's the apps and eco system etc that makes an OS take off and adopt, starting a new OS for phone like devices shouldn't be as big of a problem as it used to be. Given fair phone exists, it should now be able to get all kind of apps anyone wants.
  • Eueudhsbsj32 3mo ago
    The problem isn't missing app functionality that anyone can build. It's access to proprietary third party services that are too useful to go without. And they're not going to let you build your app to access their services.
  • MrDrMcCoy 3mo ago
    Ever tried using Linux on real mobile hardware? Phosh and updates via Flatpak are unbearably slow. I have yet to see a way to try Plasma Mobile, etc or have much of a way to customize the filesystem and lower level services to make things better.
• Eueudhsbsj32 3mo ago
  I'd love to do this, but sadly I don't see it happening unless my lifestyle significantly changed to the point where I wasn't frequently traveling to new countries. There are just too many very useful services that only work with Android/iOS. Take taxi apps for example. I've used over a dozen in the past few years, many of them local to a specific country or region that made getting around much much easier.
  • toastal 3mo ago
    I‘m lucky that my part of the world doesn’t yet require apps for taxis & they accept cash. App users often end up paying more if they don’t know even basic negotiations.
    • Eueudhsbsj32 3mo ago
      In Thailand? I guess it depends where you are. I've been in 20+ provinces and speak some Thai, but it's still so much easier using grab/bolt/lineman/muvmi and not having to explain the directions.
    • emptyfile 3mo ago
      [dead]
• jarbus 3mo ago
  I really want to love mobile Linux, and have given it multiple shots before. But I just don't see how it will catch up with iOS/Android in the same way it caught up with Windows/Mac: - OEMs have poured an enormous amount of resources into the camera software, Linux cameras are years behind from what I understand. - Android/iOS have thoroughly optimized the UX in all sorts of subtle ways, the big one being their keyboards. I literally can't type a single correct sentence on any of the mobile linux keyboards that I've tried because there's so much proprietary magic needed under the hood to figure out what the user is trying to say (autocorrect mostly, but I recall something about how apple also virtually adjusted the sizes of the keys to make it easier to type) - GPS, banking, and now keys for your house and car all need to work.
  • vetrom 3mo ago
    Linux cameras can be made to work well, it's a matter of software. Case in point, newer Ricoh/Pentax cameras actually run an a Linux firmware. (See: GR IV and K-3 Mark II/III). Parts of the software stack are already there, but noones had the will to glue it together correctly for a mobile device usecase, yet.
    • megous 3mo ago
      It's not about will. You need quite some HW for proper calibration, or cut corners a bit. Calibration is otherwise a few step process with some steps having substeps for each light source type.
      • seba_dos1 3mo ago
        That's true, but you can cut corners and still end up like 90% there. The software pipelines that can even consume detailed calibration are a pretty recent development anyway. The "cameras on Linux phones are bad" meme is induced purely by the fact that until recently there were like two or three people who have ever sat down to seriously work on this topic across the entire community. Fortunately, it's changing (although the biggest driving factor appears to be the fact that some laptops need a similar treatment now).
• seany 3mo ago
  Has anyone done Android as a I'm on a Linus phone?
• dools 3mo ago
  Speaking of Linux on mobile, I have about 300 of these things for sale with some associated hardware and software if anyone is interested (in Australia but can ship obviously) https://www.openstick.de/ https://www.openstick.de/
  • josephg 3mo ago
    It’d be cool to see pictures of the device!
    • dools 3mo ago
      Here you go https://hackaday.com/2022/08/03/hackable-20-modem-combines-lte-and-pi-zero-w2-power/ https://hackaday.com/2022/08/03/hackable-20-modem-combines-l...
  • ggm 3mo ago
    Worthy of a top level post be the OP you need to be!
  • inigyou 3mo ago
    This is an LLM-generated webslop.
    • dools 3mo ago
      What is, that website? It’s pretty thorough. It’s not my website but the information is all accurate.
      • inigyou 3mo ago
        Have you verified all of the website contents?
        • dools 3mo ago
          Well I have spent a LOT of time working with these devices, and I took a look through the website, and I didn’t see anything that looked wrong. But not exhaustively no, because why would I? it’s just the first google result for ”openstick”. It’s a pretty cool project with a cult following. If you’re interested you could spend years working with the same devices and then verify the information yourself.
• sumanep 3mo ago
  Blackberry 10
• po1nt 3mo ago
  Windows Phone was a great idea and worked so well. But it was killed by the fact that people didn't want to maintain apps for 3 platforms. Nowadays when most of the things runs on web/electron anyway, isn't this the time to rediscover that idea? Make something novel? RTOS like response like blackberry, secure, fully opensource and such? With the era of LLM accelerated developement (don't crucify me), this wouldn't be such unreachable goal. We would have to sacrifice bank apps but imho still worth it.
  • uncletammy 3mo ago
    We should be eagerly sacrificing bank apps anyway. If your bank treats you with hostility, time to get a new bank.
    • skeptic_ai 3mo ago
      With that thinking you are debanked. No bank is not hostile.
    • po1nt 3mo ago
      Unfortunately banks act on regulations. I'd much rather suggest avoiding banks altogether but that's discussion for later.
      • frollogaston 3mo ago
        Is there a regulation preventing them from doing 2FA other ways in some countries? Chase bank in the US supports passkeys and SMS, you don't need the app. My wife doesn't even have a compatible phone.
  • hithre 3mo ago
    Thanksfully it is not all web. Though indeed there is no lack of native multiplaform solutions. But app is not the hardest challenge compared to supporting all the hardware, camera, screens and the many core protocols
    • 3mo ago
• hayleox 3mo ago
  If they ever figure out how to get Linux onto a phone with a good camera, I'd pounce on it. I would be willing to put up with app issues and weird bugs and all the jankiness that comes with early adoption, but I simply can't give up being able to take really good photos with my phone.
  • fsflover 3mo ago
    Is this a good enough camera for you? https://social.librem.one/@dos/tagged/shotonlibrem5 https://social.librem.one/@dos/tagged/shotonlibrem5
    • handedness 3mo ago
      No, it's not even close to good enough. Beyond the photos, the video he posted would have been disappointing in 2003.
      • seba_dos1 3mo ago
        The (hardware) camera quality is about what you'd expect from a phone from 2019. Software processing to get JPEGs out of raw data is worse (with a huge room for improvement), but you get the raw DNGs and can employ any processing you want afterwards. Video recording, however, is the real Achilles' heel of the Librem 5, at it lacks both hardware ISP and video encoder (there are only hardware decoders). This means that any real-time processing has to happen on the GPU (replacing the ISP) and CPU (replacing the encoder). I can record indefinitely at 526x390 30 FPS and I expect 1052x780 to be achievable at a reasonable framerate with more work (currently it's at about 15 FPS IIRC), but I don't expect it to ever go significantly better that that. Of course, short clips (that fit into the RAM) and low FPS "timelapses" are possible to record at much higher quality, but these are fairly specific use cases. That said, what's there already is enough for me to have plenty of fun with the camera anyway.
        • handedness 3mo ago
          A Camp Snap is more than good enough to have fun with. That's an entirely different requirement. I had an iPhone 11 Pro Max in 2019 and its camera quality was miles ahead of the linked photos, even if you assume raw output and post-processing. (The video, as you note, is even worse.) The link provided are shill posts of photos shot mostly under highly favorable conditions, with massive amounts of post-processing happening with much newer tech. I'm looking at casual photos straight out out of my 2019 device and they're vastly better than these. Linux phones aren't going to get better by pretending the experience is something it isn't, and telling people not to believe their lying eyes. If everyone's cameras were suddenly replaced with the Librem 5's, the number of camera quality complaints would explode. It's not good enough for anything beyond novelty use.
• ilsubyeega 3mo ago
  Smartphones(android, iphone) is just smart OTP now. Bootloader unlock unavailable(i hope this is just security concern for AI era), attestation is now a thing(regulations?). Most application(incl ChatGPT, X) says Android-available, but in fact it's Google-Android only. As daily driving Linux desktop/laptops, I mostly find that android(at least samsung galaxy-flavored) is next gen of Microsoft Windows, in bad ways. At least you can "hack" the Windows to customize something by your own, android does not. Performance also questionable nowadays, not for gaming but browsing purpose for me, may drain more battery than expected. Also MS acknowledges the issues and made statements to fix while I haven't seen samsung's. Anyway, My opinion is, If you are nerd like me, I would buy one phone that 1) can unlock the bootloader 2) can root 3) at least kernel source available, some companies do not disclose until legal? actions 4) optional, linux port-able (via community) 5) optional, officially supporting linux(not aosp) and then buy second phone, that has great security support, e.g Apple iPhone or Google Pixel, and use it like a wallet(banking/cam/gps/... I would not like to support other vendors, what if they abandon security patches, and then phone being vulnerable). I believe more android application will be more restrictive than before in the future. For linux, you own the hardware. Because it's open source, you can audit and harden the every aspects, e.g You might able to use proprietary bluetooth codecs, which vendor disables in android ROM. When AI era, you may able to investigate and mod stuffs which you don't fully understand. This take risks, and we have right to take the risks instead banning it.
  • skeptic_ai 3mo ago
    I need a phone I can root and still have their shit attestations. Rooting alone is not even that important anymore, you can’t install almost any app that’s useful or use payments. So can’t be your main daily phone. Then what’s useful for? You could potentially browse internet with a custom app, and run some tooling kind of apps that can’t be installed on regular android? besides that nothing useful. Rooting is important so I can mock provide fake data for: location, other sensor data, contacts, files, etc that’s what’s a a truly owned device. He does what I say. Not what the app wants. If apps says you can work only in location X my phone takes the app side instead of mine. That’s not mine. I can’t copy this text or take screenshot because restrictions: fucking stupid. I’ll just take a photo with my second device (or output to usbc device that can record screen) and parse the text. My phone just made me waste my time. I still can do what I want, just extra hops. Because, again, is not truly my phone. Is an adversary to my daily use. Anyway it’s a lost cause. The only hope is for ai to bypass their security and allow owners to truly own a device.
• Animats 3mo ago
  What's a good phone for use without Google's Play Store? F-Droid only. No Google account.
  • bhelkey 3mo ago
    Ironically, Google Pixel phones are the best phones for leaving Google behind. The have an unlocked bootloader and are the only phones supported by GrapheneOS [1]. If you don't want to go to GrapheneOS, any Android phone should be able to use F-Droid. [1] https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices
    • Animats 3mo ago
      After September, will you still be able to install F-Droid on phones with Google accounts?
      • martheen 3mo ago
        https://developer.android.com/developer-verification/guides/faq#advanced-flow https://developer.android.com/developer-verification/guides/..., it's tied to the Google account so afterwards any device owned by the user can install F-Droid and any APK made by "unverified" devs.
        • Animats 3mo ago
          Sorry, without Google accounts. I don't want a Google account on my phone. I've never had one.
  • wishfish 3mo ago
    Pixels with GrapheneOS are your best and safest bet. In my specific case, I couldn't use Pixels because the terrible PWM on the screen was painful to me. Bought a cheap Motorola G Power 2024 with an IPS screen. Never logged into Google. Used Obtanium and FDroid for most things. Used Aurora for the one Play-only app that I needed. Running Netguard (a non-root firewall) with a whitelist so almost nothing phones home. Deleted or disabled almost all the non-essential built-in apps. I like the Moto but wouldn't recommend it due to the lack of OS updates. But this setup could be easily duplicated on almost any Android without needing root or roms.
• willjp 3mo ago
  This is the future I want. I will keep fighting for it. But my braveheart pinephone is showing it's age. And I need it to be dependable for pagerduty etc, or else have some other alerts proxy capable of waking me up in the dead of night.
• kopirgan 3mo ago
  Seems you need to buy a phone from them to use it? Couldn't find list of hardware supported, how to install etc.
• sylware 3mo ago
  spinof topic: android is still that java thingy? Or is it finally a set of modular binary specifications which are computer language agnostic?
• juiceland 3mo ago
  Note that “I’m switching” here means “I’m now carrying two phones because I have to use Android.” FTA: > The no waydroid means that I can't access some apps that I need be it for online verification for logging onto bank and government services in Norway
  • curt15 3mo ago
    So EU "digital sovereignty" still means hitching most critical functionality to Google?
  • __m 3mo ago
    will try the new jolla phone, it allows you to toggle app support for android apps.
  • MrDrMcCoy 3mo ago
    Tell your government that selling your citizenship to foreign businesses is not OK.
• catfood 3mo ago
  It would be fun to plop Claude Code down on a phone and play with the baseband processor.
  • donw 3mo ago
    "It looks like you're trying to bypass authorized firmware. I'm sorry, but I won't help you."
• _carbyau_ 3mo ago
  One of the issues is the network effect self reinforcing by the organistions you'd normally trust to be above this sort of thing. Like government bodies requiring that you use one of two american phone OS. No webpage and no other options for you... Example, across the whole of my 2.8 million people city, parking is app-to-pay. No meter, no ticket box - just a sign announcing to pay by app and a QR code. QR code points at a webpage announcing which very limited selection of apps you have for iOS and android and the backup option to ring a number. Ringing that number means you talk to a person, make an account for only one of the apps over the phone, then use the phone menu system each time you need to park. If you have a dumb phone(can't scan a QR code) or no phone... you're fucked. No way to pay for parking. Expect your fine and go through the bullshit processes. The world should NOT think it is great to be so dependant on two US companies, but here we are.
  • youaremidwit 3mo ago
    [dead]
• pooploop64 3mo ago
  I would love to do this. It's shocking how little Android offers for the hardware it uses. Recently I was thinking if I could install Windows 98 on my phone, even that would be better. At least I could have more than one app open without it burning all my work just because I dared to check info on a web page while filling a form.
  • ColdStream 3mo ago
    Oh yes, the endless joy of "We have sent a one time code to your email." Yes, but if I switch to my email then I will lose my browser session and thus the code is useless. So you have to get out a laptop to open your email just so that you have 2FA on your phone.
    • ludkiller 3mo ago
      Yea, that is so annoying, ._.
    • DANmode 3mo ago
      Tap the dots menu, and select “Open in Chromium” once the WebView loads.
    • inigyou 3mo ago
      And "please confirm this payment in your bank app". That one's even worse because the payment goes through while the site forgot what you were paying for. If you're lucky it gets refunded.
    • timbit42 3mo ago
      I used to have this problem before I upgraded to a phone with more RAM so more apps can be open at the same time.
  • spaqin 3mo ago
    My LineageOS setup used to do that; until I found that someone found a script that would adjust the memory allocation and OOM killer to more sensible values. I just have that run on boot. No side effects. Unfortunately, that's not an option for most people, the only choice is to complain - but not like there's any other option on the market that behaves better. Or there's some other drawback, or different UI to learn...
• ltbarcly3 3mo ago
  1. Android already runs on the linux kernel. 2. For every phone people in this thread switch from Android to "Linux", I'm going to switch 3 from "Linux" to Android. I have a budget of $14, $11 is earmarked for Chipotle. I should have plenty left.
• wishfish 3mo ago
  I haven't used it myself but every now and then, I'm tempted to try a Furiphone. Just from what I've read, it looks like the easiest out-of-the-box Linux experience on a phone. Does anyone here have direct experience with it?
  • jaidan 3mo ago
    Yes. I have been daily driving one for almost 2 years. No it's not as polished as an iPhone of Samsung, but it also doesn't have the backing and history those phones have. In the time I've had it, the improvements have been huge. Some say it's a bit laggy - I don't think it is, I think this is down to not having animations to tide you over between this view and that view. It works. It can run banking apps in Android. It doesn't have to run android. It's a 6 core CPU. The later models have 8GB ram (mine has 6GB and it's fine). I have tried Pinephone and found that to be horrifically slow. I like that I can write my own apps and also use a mouse with it if I want - then you have the dock to use a monitor. Out of the phones mentioned in this article, it sounds like the Furi phone would out perform most of them. I figure supporting this effort is my little way to make a change in the world and help bring freedom back to our devices, which I now have :)
    • wishfish 3mo ago
      Thanks for the mini review. That does sound rather encouraging.
• MrDrMcCoy 3mo ago
  I have Furiphone and F(x)tec devices. They ought to work well as mobile Linux devices, but they very much do not. They are unbearably slow, which I attribute to poor storage I/O optimization and Phosh being an obese sloth.
  • seba_dos1 3mo ago
    Both Furiphone and F(x)tec phones are Halium devices. They rely on Android layers underneath the GNU-like userspace. They don't really work as actual "mobile Linux" phones at all, so they're not a particularly good representation.
    • MrDrMcCoy 3mo ago
      I somehow doubt Halium explains the level of performance I've seen from them.
      • seba_dos1 3mo ago
        Something has to, Phosh runs well on much less powerful devices and several components need to be patched to work on top of Halium, so you're not really running the mainline Phosh environment there anyway.
  • LtWorf 3mo ago
    I had a pinephone and switched from phosh to plasma-mobile. The hardware was very limited but with plasma it was much much better at least.
  • yndoendo 3mo ago
    I have a F(x)tec device. It had the issue were it no longer boots when the battery is fully depleted. It also came with Android vs Linux. It is now e-waste. To my knowledge the company died off. I have a PinePhone. That was just a toy gadget and nothing of value as a daily driver. Another e-waste device. I have a FuriLabs FLX1S. It is a complete pack that is mostly plug and play. The latest update improves a lot. Wayland layer works great for when you need to run an application that has no Linux equivalent, such as Kore. It still rough around the edges. 1) Chatty, SMS application, needs more features to better incorporate modern SMS communication protocols. 2) The phone dialer takes too long to start up. 3) The microSD path is hard-code so it does not play nice when being encrypted drive were /run path is used. 4) Gnome Files works better the the Index file manager but there is no proper tie-in for password management. This means you must enter your encrypted microSD password every time after a reboot. 5) Convergence station cannot handle an ultra-wide, 3440x1440, screen monitor. 6) Firefox has a buggy user experience were there is no way to hide the tabs listing or options popup from with-in the application. One must swipe out of the application into the desktop and go back to Firefox. 7) Some of the UI time out settings are too short. Such as watching a video in full screen mode. Press to show the controls and by the time you start engaging with them the controls auto-hide again. 8) Don't know of a way to export SMS history from Android and import to Linux. Once it is a little more polished the FLXS1 will become my daily driver. It has become my Bluetooth music player. I also use it more than my actual phone daily.
• skeledrew 3mo ago
  > While the AOSP isn't exactly dead (yet), it kind of feels like it's just a question of time. The writing's been in the wall since the renamed the Android Market to Google Play Store. Frog's been boiling all this time, and every update my croaks grow weaker.
• Cheese48923846 3mo ago
  Doesn't Android already use the Linux kernel?
  • WorldMaker 3mo ago
    The top of the article addresses this a bit: yes, Android in theory is AOSP [Android Open Source Project] which is still Linux based. (For now, lots of rumors every Android release that a kernel switch is coming.) But AOSP has lost a lot of power as Android moved so many things to Google Play Services [closed source], which leaves room for Linux-based phone OSes that disown/disavow AOSP entirely because what's the point of playing ball with a half-closed ecosystem anyway? (The article discusses the Ubuntu Touch fork still seeing some maintenance despite Canonical giving up and decides on Sailfish OS.)
  • seba_dos1 3mo ago
    You can build various, vastly different operating systems around the same kernel. When people refer to "Linux phones", they usually mean the family of systems often referred to as GNU/Linux distributions, which Android very clearly doesn't belong to.
• 0xpgm 3mo ago
  Android basically ran a long bait and switch game. It came out as open source, achieved wide adoption, important online services like banking and government-related moved to it. Now they are locking it all down.
  • Cider9986 3mo ago
    AOSP isn't being locked down.
    • fsflover 3mo ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49189675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49189675
    • inigyou 3mo ago
      AOSP isn't Android.
  • ratdragon 3mo ago
    embrace, extend, extinguish ...
  • chwilson 3mo ago
    Seems to be Google's playbook unfortunately
  • fg137 3mo ago
    In "Androids: The Team That Built the Android Operating System" by Chet Haase (a book you shouldn't waste time on), it is very clear that making Android open source (i.e. AOSP) was almost by accident. Google was pretty confident that Android could be just as successful if it were a more closed ecosystem. And it seems to be that Google is increasingly regretting that decision and closing things down bit by bit, from Play store policy, all the Play services BS, to how they ship security patches, and now all the developer verification. Google discovers that it's easier to make money if they just control everything.
    • 3mo ago
• zx8080 3mo ago
  If only a few techies will be able to use Linux phone, banks will freely lock payment services access down to two platforms: ios and android. No way out, it's happening right now (in the name of "security", of course, but surprisingly it does not stop scam from happening). Web will be locked down too, via secureboot stack browser integration (not -s, it's already actually monopolised to chrome only, as FF lives on full life support from Google). Very sad how it was allowed to happen so easily.
  • aceazzameen 3mo ago
    There's still banks that have useful websites and physical locations.
  • martheen 3mo ago
    Even when I'm still using a "classic" bank with card and a website that don't even use JS, I can't afford to use Windows Phone as my daily because it doesn't have the ride hailing apps used in my country. My current and previous office use proprietary app for clocking in and out, that are also only available on iOS and Android. Even public servants in my countries in all levels have to carry either of those two for location tracking.
    • 9991 3mo ago
      Tell your employer to provide a phone for clocking in and out. Obviously.
  • 3RTB297 3mo ago
    Banks are only a part of the larger issue. Imagine traveling somewhere, and run through the things you'll need to work without tinkering. Camera, eSIM, GPS/maps, more "exotic" messaging apps that for some reason people use instead of Whatsapp. It seems like most Linux phones are barely suitable for someone that just goes home to work 99.999% of the time.
    • fossman 3mo ago
      I don't have to imagine. I've already traveled internationally with the Librem 5 and it can do what I need it to do. Esim is supported with an adapter like those from JMP, but I use a local SIM card from that country. Whatsapp I never use, Signal and Delta Chat work fine.
• edg5000 3mo ago
  My bank forces me to have an iOS/Android phone for online payments. So at best I'd have a cheap Android phone in a drawer in my house in case I need to make online payments. I'm surprised WhatsApp works on his non-Android OS?!
  • fsflover 3mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49189632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49189632
• juris 3mo ago
  i read on mister RMS's website that he refuses to use phones except for the most basic things, preferring a laptop for aught else, mostly because phones are computers and 'software on computers should be free' ngl, that is the most charming darn thing to hear in 2026-- and it lowers the bar considerably here. like if all you need to have is a computer, sky's the limit on how you want to run this. sooo with a little help from Claude I have a xmpp server running from home base+jmp for calling / sms, a portable router and a cute construction grade wp836 grandstream phone (annoyingly I can't seem to route SMS to it yet, but they route fine through xmpp on a terminal). if you're voiping, you really don't need a voip phone though. i have zero compunction so my computer of choice is a macbook neo... which acts as a dumb terminal for aforementioned xmpp server / wasteful videogame computer / claude butler (open the floodgates ladies and gentlemen); if i wanted cred sometimes i carry the old thinkpad around instead. i can't say that it's any more secure than Android (using claude == i don't know what I'm doing), but it's fun? expensive fun though. JMP is a subscription, proton (for MFA and everything else) is a subscription, you need a domain for your xmpp server, ...this 'homelabbing' thing is expensive, using a map is awful (so wife is navigator...with her phone). There are many failure points, me included. but god, so fun! i usually leave the actual cell phone at home. i do still have one. that's a hard thing to drop... but not impossible! the only holdover is learning how to use a proper camera and setting up the media server.
  • youaremidwit 3mo ago
    [dead]
• b8 3mo ago
  PureOS runs on Librem and is decent.
• toastal 3mo ago
  I switched to Sailfish OS. A lot of rough edges, but it can can be workable—tho largely due to Sailfish having an Android layer to run those apps. It’s getting better OS-wise, but the Sony devices that you can get access to internationally are much lower priority on their list. On top, if you try to pay, the lock you to Western countries… & I have no idea why.
• MarceliusK 3mo ago
  [dead]
• penguin_booze 3mo ago
  I'm all for using a Linux phone. The caveats thereof are mentioned in this thread. I've a wish list of one, though: make the Web the primary GUI front end. Essentially, apps are a specialised browser window. That way, I can program (both the front- and back-end) in plain text, just using regular Linux tools and a text editor -- no bloatware and gargantuan IDEs mandated.
  • jodrellblank 3mo ago
    Remember when that was a thing and then its developers killed it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS
• _joel 3mo ago
  Complete non-starter for me until banking apps support it (even rooted android would be a start).
  • fsflover 3mo ago
    So you are stuck in the walled garden. Alternatively, you could find a bank not forcing the duopoly on you. Worked for me.
    • _joel 3mo ago
      I don't particularly care for the messing around. I'm of an age now where I've done that and prefer to spend my time not working around self-imposed tech issues. Also, good luck finding a bank in the UK that can support that (without messing around with desktop web instead on mobile instead of the app).
      • VGHN7XDuOXPAzol 3mo ago
        Monzo in UK is fine with rooted and no Google Play. No idea how it would fare inside Waydroid though.
        • seba_dos1 3mo ago
          It it's fine with rooted and no Google Play, that would usually mean it will be fine with Waydroid too.
• bigpeopleareold 3mo ago
  I introduced myself to this space a couple of weeks ago with a PineTab2. I bought it for reading but some tinkering. I am running Plasma Mobile on it. It's rough, but OK (and can't expect much from the hardware.) I don't know what the user experience out-of-the-box though. While I can run some 'important' apps in Waydroid (e.g. bank app in Norway), smartphones are not that interesting. I never wanted one, but it's increasingly something you have to have anyway and I usually don't realize it became so integrated in life (funny this comes up - I had a dream forgetting my phone and not knowing what to do next)
• nc55g3g 3mo ago
  There are too few apps on Linux phones, otherwise I would have migrated there
  • mdp2021 3mo ago
    > too few apps Temporary. The age of LLM aided development is current.
  • fsflover 3mo ago
    But which apps exactly are you missing?
• asah 3mo ago
  the right answer is to deliver a usable SECOND device which happens to be linux based, and which has serves a purpose. Then over time, apps get ported. realistically, this device would need to tiny to justify the extra weight, device-to-keep-charged, etc. one idea: make it wifi-only and tether from your primary mobile device. This skips all the carrier nonsense, to focus entirely on the core use case(s).
  • mike_hock 3mo ago
    I already have a second usable device and I don't mind the extra weight that much most of the time. It's called a laptop computer. As soon as we get to a point that Linux on the phone works at all, I'm happy to switch completely. Here, "it works" literally just means it works. Not "GPS doesn't work," "camera only half works," "interop with Android/iOS apps that you're forced to use doesn't work." That doesn't mean "it works." And of course "only works for 2-3 years and then the device gets abandoned" doesn't mean "it works" either.
• phplovesong 3mo ago
  I wish nokia would have ultimately opted for their own android fork. That would have eventually lead to a more open linux kind of OS, like we saw with maemo. Flop-Elon was the worst guy at the worst time in the worst position. It was 110% obvious windows mobile would flop. Everyone knew it, it was just a panic decision.
• almindor 3mo ago
  I've been using Sailfish OS since the first Jolla phone came out in EU and Canada both. It has some hurdles but if you pay for the android subsystem it works fine. There are a lot of great native apps and you get the full linux experience.
  • jll29 3mo ago
    The Jolla 2 is said to be "sold out". Apparently, they produce the phones in batches, not sure when the next one is due?
    • nbernard 3mo ago
      Just received mine. Sure, the interface is far, far slicker than what is available on the Librem 5, but there are already hints of "you are not really the owner of the device" (for instance default "safety" contacts in the contact app that you cannot delete, the inability to easily use "reverse tethering" (getting Internet by USB through a computer) and so on) that will make me keep the Librem 5, with all its own issues, as my daily driver for the foreseeable future. (And the Jolla's "hardware privacy switch" feels like a bad joke: yes, the switch is hardware. What it does (if anything) is fully handled in software.)
      • poetaster 3mo ago
        The safety contacts issue is legislated in Europe. Removing them is breaking the law, I believe. Can be done if you really want to hack.
• reorder9695 3mo ago
  I've come to the conclusion that I actually really like Android as an operating system, the internals seem remarkably well thought out and ideal for the mobile use case (so long as you're running a userdebug build with the ability to adb root in when needed), most of people's issues aren't really with Android (although Google reducing the AOSP release schedule isn't a good sign). I think the real problem is Google Play Services. It's far, far too tightly integrated in a way that it just seems like Android was designed to be unusable without. It's installed as a location manager internally, which gives it a shitload of permissions by default that you never grant it. There's absolutely no reason everything (notifications, the app store, some location services) has to be packaged together into one thing instead of each having its own module that can be removed at will. Play integrity just plain shouldn't exist and as far as I'm concerned is purely there to ensure no one creates a real play services alternative or another mobile OS with Android compatibility. The ideal outcome for me would be keeping Android but effectively dissolving Play Services and instead having the concept of a core services, where instead of apps choosing to use Firebase for notifications, they instead bind to the system notifications service, and as the user I choose which implementation I want, preferably with it not installed as a system app. I'm well aware that's not going to happen, but it seems like the most practical way to break up the Google/Apple monopoly to me, Android's great but Google's services aren't.
  • bennofs 3mo ago
    There is microg, which implements some of this by re-implementing Google Play services but allowing you to choose your own provider for services where this is possible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroG
  • rickdeckard 3mo ago
    > I think the real problem is Google Play Services. It's far, far too tightly integrated in a way that it just seems like Android was designed to be unusable without. This is somehow by intention. In the ramp-up of Android adoption, Vendors and carriers started to fork Android and deviate too much from the core. Google needed a leverage to tie them to stay compatible to the ecosystem, Google Mobile Services (GMS) was the tool to do so. "Pass the compatibility test suite and you qualify to preload GMS". Then, at some point, Google implemented API's in the OS which call Google's cloud infrastructure (e.g. Location services), which they didn't want to commit to the Android source for the risk of them being forked and modified, so they started to implement them in a precompiled "Google Play Services" module. Over time, it seems Google Play Services became the preferred vehicle for Google to rollout any kind of API-changes to have them applied on all devices immediately, without waiting for the vendor to do an OS-Upgrade. The result is that Google now promotes Google Play Service API's as the way for the most widely compatible implementation of an app. Which is...not wrong, but in the larger picture also the reason why Android is not considered "real" open-source (anymore). > The ideal outcome for me would be keeping Android but effectively dissolving Play Services Agree. There is still a very good OS in there, clearly written by considerate SW-Engineers.
• darkoob12 3mo ago
  We are hooked to Google/Apple platforms by our banks and some government services.
• shevy-java 3mo ago
  Google is becoming more and more Evil by the day. Some things are still funny to me, though. As Google transitions towards full Evilness, people less frequently advertise a "I was employed at Google, what a wonderful place". Google totally changed things here, to the worse - that's fascinating. Meanwhile the google graveyard is growing almost daily: https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/
• Markoff 3mo ago
  you can have Android without google play services and AI and it will be still less painful experience than trying to use Linux phone as your daily driver
• stiray 3mo ago
  I bought Jolla Phone 2026. Was thinking about Pixel 10 and another round of GrapheneOS, but changed my mind. Was using Sailfish OS on Sonys phone but drove me nuts for two reasons: - had to reverse banking up to kick out the checks each time when new version came out and I became quite proficient at it (decompiled into git and each new version over it, then git diff, and fix the checks, committed the changes) - worse part was that there was no bluetooth to android bridge and local bus company required it for contactless paying There was nothing I missed from the phone, even reversing banking app was not really an issue, but bluetooth was just needed. I defected to GrapheneOS after two years, now I am moving back, I hope for good. The fixed the bluetooth while for hardware I dont care. I have solved the banking app issues by changing the bank and getting cheap old pixel just for banking app. It doesnt even have SIM, only wifi and used Automatize to turn on airplane mode on lock screen and turning it off for unlock. I dont care about NFC payment or any other android junk, for photos I have EOS and phone just doesnt cut it, while camera is good enough for taking shots at everyday things like shopping list. I really hope I wont need to see android ever again.
  • user2722 3mo ago
    Bluetooth now works with Waydroid? Seamlessly or you have to "disconnect" from host and "connect" it to Waydroid? AFAIK, Camera (V4L) is also broken on main repo, to anyone else wondering.
  • poetaster 3mo ago
    Bluetooth support is for Jolla's android support. 5.2 for ports and waydroid is awayz out. My guess,18 months.
  • stiray 3mo ago
    Just to clarify bluetooth situation: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/release-notes-pispala-5-1-0-11/29751 https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/release-notes-pispala-5-1-0-1... /* The AppSupport Bluetooth Bridge shares the phone’s Bluetooth controller between Sailfish OS and AppSupport. It acts as a router, so each Bluetooth device can be handled by either Sailfish OS or AppSupport without handing the whole controller over. For most devices this is controlled through pairing. BLE devices are more complicated, and that is one of the areas where broader testing will be useful. For now, you should reboot after installing. The Bluetooth settings page now has an extra option to route incoming pairing requests to AppSupport. Devices found during scanning also have a long-press context menu option to pair them with AppSupport. You can see devices paired with AppSupport on the same page, and you should also unpair them from there when needed. Turning Bluetooth on and off in Sailfish also turns it on and off in AppSupport. You should not try to turn it on or off from Android apps. Android apps that are designed to pair with devices internally should be able to do so. If you have previously handed Bluetooth completely over to AppSupport as described elsewhere on the forum, revert those changes first. Otherwise things are likely to break." */ I hope it helps.
• dethos 3mo ago
  I'm not completely switching yet, but I'm also exploring SailfishOS and Ubuntu Touch to see how far they will allow me to go. We really need at least a third viable option; it is clear that only having Google's Android and Apple's iOS is not benefiting the individual user.
• tanhaosheng 3mo ago
  [flagged]
• noisy_boy 3mo ago
  I have said it before: the only practical solution is two phones. Use a budget one for boring banking and government stuff. Use Linux phone for all that stuff that ad companies are actually interested in and totally cut them off from that data by virtue of actually having control. They can shove their security theatre up their ass.
• hn_submit 3mo ago
  Although I'm supportive of your cause I find it ultimately futile. Developing and maintaining a mobile operating system is a hugely expensive endeavor. Only a wildly profitable company like Google could do so and give it away for free. Linux simply isn't up to the task despite there being some touch-enabled user interfaces available for it. There's so much more people expect from their mobile these days. The best option would be to use /e/OS or GrapheneOS to limit your exposure to Google's incessant spying and tracking.
  • fsflover 3mo ago
    There are actually some people using a GNU/Linux phone as a daily driver for years. I'm one of them.
    • hn_submit 3mo ago
      Maybe you should write a blog about it. I'm interested. I'm afraid there will be too many corners cut. The most important being the lack of available software. I'm of the notion that a computer without software is nothing more than a box of wires.
      • fsflover 3mo ago
        There are quite a few good write-ups about it already, for example: https://forums.puri.sm/t/nine-months-librem-5-as-my-only-phone-my-review-and-workflow/23268 https://forums.puri.sm/t/nine-months-librem-5-as-my-only-pho... https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-phone-review/21085 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-phone-review/21085 Concerning the software, I can run most Linux apps and most Android apps with Waydroid. See also: https://linuxphoneapps.org/ https://linuxphoneapps.org/
  • palata 3mo ago
    > Developing and maintaining a mobile operating system is a hugely expensive endeavor. I agree, it feels like trying to write a new browser from scratch. > The best option would be to use /e/OS or GrapheneOS I would highly recommend GrapheneOS (disclaimer: I used both for years).
• alexpotato 3mo ago
  I've been using Linux as my daily driver on my main personal computers for years. You could say that I love Linux and it has treated me very well. That being said, I consciously chose an iPhone b/c I want my phone to "just work". I had a Blackberry Storm for a year and it was buggy, had to be restarted everyday just for it operate etc etc. The iPhone has always been great. It just does what I need it to do b/c clearly someone cared about making sure the end user experience was phenomenal. While Linux has gotten better over the years, it just doesn't feel the same. In addition, I recently started using a MacBook and the fact that the phone sync WITH THE LAPTOP makes the iPhone an even bigger plus. For example, if I set keyboard shortcuts on my phone they also work on the laptop. Photo sharing is a breeze and even integrated iMessage "just works". Now, I don't fault people for wanting Linux phones. It's just not right for me.`
• duxup 3mo ago
  I wish there was a good option, at the same time I recognized that I look at my phone as a tool… and I have very very little interest in spending time messing around to make it work…
• comandillos 3mo ago
  I'm pretty hyped about OpenHarmony. I've been using HarmonyOS for almost a year now (not the AOSP fork, but the actual Hongmeng microkernel flavour)... and this idea of having a iOS-like system with an Android VM running at near native performance works pretty well. Unfortunately is really focused on the chinese market but it feels really polished and promising.