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John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement
- frollogaston 3mo agoGood. It's a tractor, not some tiny glued-together tech gadget.
- dugite-code 3mo agoShouldn't we be able to repair a tiny glued togethee tech gadget as well?
- sublinear 3mo agoThis is only getting this level of scrutiny because it's related to big ag, and John Deere is the worst example. They're a political football now and it's more of a feel good measure.
- rayusher 3mo agoMost movements don't start out big. They are won by small steps. Personally I want a law that allows people to bypass security measure after a company stop supporting the device. I have unsupported amazon echo, google home, and apple ipads that work perfectly well and I would love add custom software or even put a different os too.
- frollogaston 3mo agoNah, there's a line somewhere
- nttylock 3mo ago[flagged]
- taurath 3mo ago> Deere must pay $1 million collectively to the five states for antitrust enforcement costs and will be subject to strict compliance oversight for the next 10 years. $1 million fine for probably $10 billion in profit. I know what lesson I'd learn if my only personal value was maximizing shareholder value. The compliance part can be dealt with later.
- snypher 3mo ago>probably $10 billion in profit Can you expand on this number or is it vibes-based? I'd be surprised if $10b profit was made from Service Advisor. Anecdata; we've had a handful of problems with our tractor "computers" recently, and we haven't been charged a dime by the dealer. Our newest is 2018 model so definitely not covered by warranty.
- syntaxing 3mo agoNot OP but I went through some data and John Deere makes 5B NET profit for the worse years. 10B for their best (only looking back 10 years). I wouldn’t be surprised these anticompetitive (as in anti “consumer”) has netted them north of 10B.
- ggoo 3mo agoBananas that stuff like this needs to get litigated in our society - if you asked 100 random people "should farmers be able to repair their equipment", you would get 100 yes's.
- mothballed 3mo agoUntil you tell them how easy it makes it to bypass emissions restrictions. My tractor was shipped with a screw turned down to <25hp to bypass emissions controls. I could turn that screw back up and have a ~35hp tractor, but of course, that would be illegal and make lots of environmentalists cry. Opening up John Deere tractors for right to repair virtually assures they will ~all be doing emissions deletes. Part of their lock-down was profit seeking, but the other half is that different vendors had different ideas interpretations of the law about how locked down the system had to be to prevent emissions tampering, and domestic companies more subject to US law were generally far more paranoid about it.
- triceratops 3mo agoI don't understand, are 35hp tractors illegal under emissions rules? Then why even manufacture them and cripple them?
- mothballed 3mo agoTractors are legal above 25hp but it requires DPF, and at I want to say about 75, possibly more than that. Farmers generally hate DPF systems and will disable them the microsecond they get the right to repair. >Then why even manufacture them and cripple them? They cripple them because they know people want bigger tractor without emission control so they sell it as a less powerful tractor and then just expect people to break the law and turn the screw, and everybody is happy. ========= re: below due to throttling ======== >Thankfully, it's not illegal to own a screwdriver and nothing changes there. There's absolutely no relevance between right to repair (not right to break emission laws!) and the situation you describe. There is because on the John Deere tractors you can't set the "screw" unless you have right to repair the engine system. John Deere has no screw because they're in the US and they're too afraid of US regulators.
- MarkMarine 3mo agoGreat news, the fine is so small doesn’t matter, but curing the wrong does. My hope is this standard will apply to modern cars as well, repair manuals and the software tools to interact with the cars are also heavily restricted by the manufacturers.
- aceki 3mo agoAs much as I hope this is a turning point, I’m not holding my breath. John Deere was one of the most egregious offenders in the right-to-repair movement, especially with how expensive their tractors are. There’s definitely a difference paying for the repair of a ten of thousands of dollars machine versus having to buy new AirPods. I’m no expert in US law, but my understanding is an FTC settlement doesn’t create any precedent like a court case would, so I don’t anticipate this leading to other offenders, like in tech, being held accountable. Their support is too important right now. Ultimately, I think the underlying motive for the administration is scoring a win for a core constituency, farmers. Tariffs and immigration enforcement have really harmed the viability of their farms, but at least the admin can say the did something for them. Nevertheless, I’m glad that John Deere is being forced to provide parts and information to individuals and repair shops.
- ourmandave 3mo agoThe suit was brought be Dems in a 3-2 commission vote in Jan just before Trump took office. I'm not sure he cares since he's not running again and I don't see a way he can use it for graft.
- macintux 3mo ago> I'm not sure he cares since he's not running again Don't underestimate the willingness of the GOP and the Supreme Court to kiss his feet. > ...and I don't see a way he can use it for graft. He's an expert at it.
- arwhatever 3mo agoWe’ve got to be sure the manufacturers get a solid decade or two to profit off of these schemes, so that future manufacturers know it will be worthwhile perpetrating future schemes.
- brikym 3mo ago"...Deere will now be required to make diagnostic and repair tools available to equipment owners and independent repair shops..." This is only the tip of the iceberg. They make the parts deliberately proprietary to prevent competition. The classic example is curved cabin windows instead of flat commodity glass. Laissez-faire capitalism is efficient at extraction not productivity.
- snypher 3mo agoHaving operated a ~1995 7800 with flat glass and a ~2015 7270 with curved, I know which one I'm picking. Are automobiles using curved windshields so they have a stranglehold on the replacement windshield market? Your example doesn't pass my sniff test.
- dreambuffer 3mo agoThere's a cognitive dissonance on this site where everyone claims to hate this attempt at regulatory capture, yet they would do it too if it was their tech company and call it a "moat", and many are actively working towards that.
- esseph 3mo agoTwo different groups: the hackers, and the money people.
- j2kun 3mo agoI heard someone say recently that one reason tech sucks is because the sociopathic narcissists domesticated the hackers.
- stevemk14ebr 3mo agoI wouldn't do it, your point is now disproven
- trollbridge 3mo ago
- Cider9986 3mo agoShout out to Louis Rossmann for doing a ton of work on Right to repair. He started a website called Consumer Rights Wiki to document anti-consumer practices. https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Main_Page https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Main_Page He's also involved with FULU Foundation which has a bounty of 25k to get Ring cameras working without Amazon's servers. https://bounties.fulu.org/bounties/ring-video-doorbells https://bounties.fulu.org/bounties/ring-video-doorbells
- aj_icracked 3mo agoI agree with this. Louis has done a ton in the last decade and deserves thanks for sure.
- Papazsazsa 3mo agoThe man is an icon. Reminds me of old internet, when activists we doing it for The User.
- cobbzilla 3mo agoReminds me of a line from Tron, where the other programs ask Flynn in disbelief: > You fight for the users?
- mnadkvlb 3mo agohe is one of the very few people who inspires me today.
- gleenn 3mo agoExtra props for tilting thw windmill that is tech behemoths funneling data to government agencies without oversight. Aiming at Amazon is certainly something not to be taken lightly.
- frogulis 3mo agoYour "tilting at the windmill" phrasing is interesting. I don't get the sense from your tone otherwise that you disapprove of it or think it's pointless.
- trinsic2 3mo agoThe settlement changes nothing [0] [0]: https://fighttorepair.substack.com/p/this-doesnt-break-the-monopoly-this?publication_id=249852&post_id=204995837&isFreemail=true https://fighttorepair.substack.com/p/this-doesnt-break-the-m...
- joerawr 3mo ago[dead]
- foolswisdom 3mo agoIs this not about a separate class action lawsuit?
- ryukoposting 3mo agoIt is, yes.
- doginasuit 3mo agoThe very concept of IP was a mistake. I understand it helped make a lot of work possible. But virtually nothing useful came from nothing, and the reservoir of human knowledge belongs to all of us. Unless you are Isaac Newton, you took a good idea and made it better or more applicable. Pretending like you own it is just dishonest. If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. --Isaac Newton
- tialaramex 3mo agoIntellectual property is a broad swathe of different rights and they each have some merits and are worth considering separately. The trademarks and the protected designations I believe help consumers to know what they're getting and protect makers against competition with inferior products which are superficially similar. So that's things like "Coke" is definitely Coca-Cola's product and not just whatever brown liquid the seller could get cheapest, British Beef isn't actually from America just relabelled for a higher price. Champagne isn't actually a sparkling wine made in California. You can buy cheap brown liquid, Californian Sparkling wine and American beef, but it's right for consumers to know what they're getting and for the vintners in Champagne to know some Tech bro's side venture Californian winery isn't shipping bogus "Champagne" made in the Napa valley that will compete with their genuine product on store shelves in London. If consumers want to drink sparkling Californian wine they can do that, there's no need to use the name Champagne worked so hard for. The patents are most reprehensible. There the deal is the government gives you a (surprisingly long) exclusive right to make a thing, and in exchange you give up some information about how to make it. Lawyers have managed to finagle providing almost no useful information about "how" in exchange for these quite unreasonable exclusive rights, that needs at least substantial rebalancing. In software it's just bullshit and should go entirely, in pharmaceuticals you can argue about the exact rules more. Copyright is the most interesting tension. In theory Copyright protects creators - and that seems great. In practice this unavoidably also benefits non-creator heirs "Knives Out" style but that's not really the worst thing in the world. It also though benefits publishers which are corporate entities and that makes no sense whatsoever in the modern era. That needs drastic reining in, if while we're in there we can ensure that the author's grandkids don't get a free ride for life just because grandma wrote this amazing book that'd be nice. Copyright expansion seems to have slowed or stopped during my lifetime, which is good, but it needs reversing.
- josefritzishere 3mo ago1 Million isn't enough. The CEO should personally pay 1 million, the Deere corp should have to pay 100 M.
- BorisMelnik 3mo agoso happy to hear this, I know many farmers that went with other brands or used equipment without chips. most farmers I know just want pure mechanics anyway
- xgulfie 3mo ago1 million dollars? Like, less than 1 tractor after financing? How will they recover from this?!
- gigel82 3mo agoGood, do Apple next.
- al_borland 3mo agoIt was always crazy to me that farm equipment was locked down. I almost understand yuppie buying an E-Class not working on their own car, but a farmer not able to work on his own tractor just felt so wrong. It made me wonder how John Deere was still so popular and seemingly beloved.
- silisili 3mo agoBrand name/heritage, and not much competition. I think there are only two US based companies left in business.
- hobo123 3mo agoMy guess is there a few German or Japanese competitors in the market as well. And buying American is all well and good until you can get a better machine for less somewhere else.
- jimnotgym 3mo agoOne day there will be a Chinese competitor to wipe them all out
- hobo123 3mo agoTrue. One more reason for Western companies to get their s..t together and stop enshittification.
- silisili 3mo agoAbsolutely - Kubota is extremely popular as well. But there will always be that faction who doesn't consider it because of who owns it.
- maxhille 3mo agoIt was always crazy to me that computers were locked down. I almost understand Karen buying an iPhone not coding her own apps, but a dev not able to deploy on their own device just felt so wrong. It made me wonder how Apple was still so popular and seemingly beloved.
- jamienk 3mo ago"Right to repair" isn't some kind of little negotiated contract fiddling. A company can't agree to a 5-year right to repair. Right to repair is a normal freedom, like speech, like using everyday objects you buy or make, generally walking around, meeting people, etc. Don't let's get all twisted up here and start thinking some dumb-ass business plan is the starting point in our basic conceptualization of humanity.
- tzs 3mo ago> Right to repair is a normal freedom Right to try to repair is a normal freedom.
- darknavi 3mo agoRight to watch five YouTube videos on how to fix my horrid soldering job. I wouldn't trade it for the world though, we need more tinkering.
- sleight42 3mo agoMe trying to fix our living room couch. Yeah. I fell ya, man.
- jmole 3mo ago"Right to not be locked out of performing repairs yourself" doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well.
- FloatArtifact 3mo agoThank you all involved! Bring it to our cars next! I'm looking at you, electric vehicles!
- smashah 3mo agoThis should be extended to software We have the Digital Human Right to adversarial interoperability no matter the dimension/interface.
- ikidd 3mo agoIn the last decade, on a fleet of almost 30 Deere machines from lawnmowers to high-clearance sprayers and combines, I could count on one hand the number of times I've needed the Deere laptop to diagnose a problem to fix it.
- Whatarethese 3mo agoWell I guess you speak for everyone. Let's ban a persons right to repair.
- ikidd 3mo agoIt astonishes me how aggressive people are on this issue that have never turned a wrench on a Deere machine.
- wileydragonfly 3mo agoI’ll believe it when I hear farmers telling me it’s true
- shuwix 3mo agoWe need same for Lenovo Deere, John Dell ... Soldered RAM's, soldered SSD's lately, batteries which have by purpose just slightly different size not to be interchangeable. And for mighty HP and their printers, management needs to be put to wall and shot. There's no other solution.
- kestiny 3mo agoand the car
- aitchnyu 3mo agoSaw a video of Kia van where the presenter shows of a 3 piece bumper, a food vendor can buy a specific piece if he bashed one corner. Now car bumpers contain sensors and cameras and flush lights and a light hit can cause very expensive damage, and its brushed off with "compared to a 90s car, you can walk away from ...".
- gkanai 3mo agoApple too. They solder in the SSDs and memory.
- jve 3mo agoIt may very well be because of process too. I don't like people calling out soldered stuff. By the way, soldered stuff may still be serviceable at 3rd party service centers, just not at every DIYers home. It will cost you quite some money, yeah. There are laptops that have soldered RAM + Free slot for upgrade. But regulating that stuff is just stupid I think - there is a valid reason for manufacturers to try make things more compact, more streamlined etc.
- shuwix 3mo agoSlots arw for upgrades, repair and salvage. Almost no nowadays notebooks with soldered RAM have additional slot. What of RAM takes 2 secocds with slot. Soldering lots of pins or reballing requires specialized equipment and skilled (and expensive) person. I'm going to scrap 120 almost mint condition 8th gen i5 Thinkpads thanx to 8GB soldered RAM, which is no longer enough for efficient office work on W11 + basic corporate background apps. With 1 fookin RAM slot, these notebooks would be perfectly fine for another 5-10 years.
- delfugal 3mo agoGreat Stary. I wish he could go after the large format printer industry. (The really big printing machines). Those machines are locked for service and require service contracts, and you still can't get under the hood. And when the company decides to obsolete the product, customers are thrown out on their backsides.
- j45 3mo agoIt's nice to see enshittification being stopped and reversed.
- shevy-java 3mo agoGood. However had, one question still remains: why did the US government not have this automatically put in place in general? The title refers to one company for the most part. The question is why the US government, which assumingly should work for the people, prioritizes private commercial interests over individual ownership models.
- MisterMower 3mo agoFifty years ago the average guy buying a tractor had a family farm with a few hundred acres. Equipment was smaller and had less frills because the John Deeres of the world were catering to those small time customers. There were a lot of them. Those small time farms mostly don’t exist anymore. Today farming is done on an industrial scale, and equipment manufacturers are catering to the big players. They need big, efficient equipment that is profitable to operate at scale and they’re willing to pay for it. Only the big farms can. I wonder how much of this is just the manufacturers making more high end, complex equipment that is just difficult to repair in general as opposed to them maliciously designing things to be difficult to fix. Keep in mind, increasing the cost to repair something lowers its market value. There’s a reason Toyotas are more expensive than Dodges. The market prices these inconveniences. It’s not in the manufacturer’s interest to do this. I think the real risk here is that the equipment manufacturers will use these settlements and regulations to build crazy reporting and compliance requirements that give them a moat that prevents upstart companies from competing with incumbents in the industry. What they really fear is competition, not the loss of a few percentage points on their part sales and service profits.
- solidsnack9000 3mo agoIt can be in their interest if their model assumes certain revenue from sales and service. Most brands of cars can be repaired by independent technicians. Toyotas are more valuable because they are reliable -- because they are repaired less often.
- MisterMower 3mo agoBuyers discount the equipment price based on the expected cost of repairs, and manufacturers capture more profit when they consistently produce equipment that is more reliable or easier to repair. In the short term they can increase their profits by reducing quality and designing their product so that it must be serviced at an OEM shop, but this will come at the expense of future sales when customers take these increased repair costs into account and buy from other manufacturers who don’t engage in these tactics. This is why competition is so important: without it, buyers have no alternative and manufacturers have no incentive to provide value instead of fleecing thier customers by providing an inferior product with expensive repair options only.
- mast6footer 3mo agodamn
- dana321 3mo agoThat is good news for once
- a3w 3mo agoDoes that enforcibly include tractors the Russian Federation captured in eastern Ukraine?
- ursusarcanum 3mo agoNow do printers and MacBooks.
- jMyles 3mo agoOh I wish I was home, mama where the bluegrass grows where the right to repair is made plain!
- CircuitSeuss 3mo agoI think it’s important to understand that while this is a win, it’s only a small step. > Deere will now be required to make diagnostic and repair tools available to equipment owners and independent repair shops, not only its own network of authorized dealers. In practice, this means Deere will now operate similar to auto manufacturers. They will make their proprietary scanning equipment, software, and manuals available… for a few-thousand-dollar/ month subscription. You have options as to where you can replace the physical components… but still need to pay a subscription fee in order to use your vehicle’s full feature set or get access to the data you collected but don’t actually own. Your vehicle’s firmware is still locked. They will make their parts available… but not necessarily to a common standard (we could have used a common bolt size or hose line, or specced a commonly available alternator, but we decided not to), making it prohibitively costly for third party manufacturers to compete on aftermarket parts, and keeping genuine part costs high. You can (legally) work on the machine yourself… but work done without a licensed mechanic will likely void your warranty, or prevent you from using necessary software features. Your local mechanic can now repair your equipment… but in order to do that work they may have to invest in not only scanners and software, but an odd handful of unique task-specific or custom tools in order to complete the repair. Don’t get me wrong, this is still a win. It’s high time that the FTC addressed Deere’s blatantly anti-competitive behavior. However, this isn’t a silver bullet that will save farmers from the rising tide of extractive capitalism, or isolate their tractors from nation state cyber threats.
- hunmernop 3mo agoNow can we get the same for our TVs and other electronics? We seem to just buy new cheap crap rather than fix what we have. Filling the landfills with toxic metals that seep into our drinking water.
- Greymon 3mo ago[flagged]
- mikewarot 3mo agoI've learned that I'm just not cynical enough. Here's the relevant Peter Girnus post[1], he tells the underlying truth through satire. 10 years. We report our compliance every 60 days, then once a year, which is to say we have turned handing you your own machine into a paperwork schedule that runs through 2036. Any new repair tool we build, we only have to share once more than 50% of our dealers already have it. We decide when a dealer has it. We build the clock and we wind the clock. https://x.com/gothburz/status/2075211022198096180 https://x.com/gothburz/status/2075211022198096180
- invictati 3mo agoWhy has there not been a class action lawsuit against Cricut for the exact same deceptive and invasive business practices? Their pen plotters and cutters are unrepairable and their mandatory app doesn't work without an internet connection.
- drannex 3mo agojust leaving this here: https://hackingisnotacrime.org https://hackingisnotacrime.org
- egberts1 3mo ago[flagged]
- paradoxyl 3mo agoI demand from our reps a right to privacy and a right to repair and anyone who votes against this is out.
- MSkill1 3mo agoI've heard it said that the Right to Repair bill that Trump signed actually only applies to exhaust systems and the right to repair to meet environmental protection standards. If that's true, then this is pretty meaningless. Does anyone know the truth?