11 ms·
What Ozempic does to the gut-brain axis
- dirtbagskier 4mo agoI'd take them even if they didn't make me lose weight - and I'm the type of person that doesn't like takeing Tylenol unless absolutely necessary. The best way I can describe it: my body and mind are no longer is in starvation mode. I plan, do, act and sleep well.
- diggerboy 4mo agoDid you have to reach a certain dose for such effects?
- chadd 4mo agothe minimum dose of monjaro (2.5mg injection once/week) can often be enough
- barake 4mo agoSemaglutide does an incredible job of keeping my autoimmune issues in check. The only side effect I've had is needing to drink more water or else I feel like I've got the flu. Minimal tradeoff IMO
- npunt 4mo agooh say more?
- cjbgkagh 4mo agoThis is why I took it, auto immune related ME/CFS. Works great. I still get PEM but outside of that I get to live a normal life.
- emmelaich 4mo agoInteresting! Is it possible that you're just eating less of whatever triggers the autoimmune symptoms?
- cjbgkagh 4mo agoNo, if that’s all it was then ME/CFS would be a cake walk and it isn’t. I have such a crazy restrictive diet and have had for a long time that one of my issues was being kicked out of doctor's offices for looking too healthy. The diet is necessary but not sufficient.
- s5300 4mo ago[dead]
- jelsisi 4mo agoI'm in the same boat! I look very healthy, I'm young and most of my bloodwork is great but I have many autoimmune symptoms. I started on semaglutide 1 week ago and your comment brings me hope.
- cjbgkagh 4mo agoI started on an extremely small dose and worked up very slowly because I predicted and did in-fact have hyperactivity to it. I got gastroparisis and the associated huge amount of vomiting, couldn’t eat for the first few weeks. But slowly over the course of 3-6 months I was having few and fewer bad days. I take a bunch of other meds as well but this one is one of the most effective. I also do LDN, Amitryptiline, Modafinil, TUDCA, DIM, low dose of TRT and Ipamorelin/ModGRF. I eat the absolute minimum in sugar, one meal per day, and that is usually a large kale salad. The Modafinil / Amitryptiline is probably the most effective treatment I’ve tried, followed by the semaglutide, then the TRT/hGH peptides.
- Scalestein 4mo agoSuper interesting - my friend has ME/CFS and/or Fibromyalgia and started GLP-1 but seemed to get only the negative side effects and not much benefit. Using Zepbound specifically. Is the Modafinil used for alertness or a different off label purpose? I'm always interested in potential helpful interventions.
- nwienert 4mo agoI've been posting about this including here for years now. I wrote a long post about it a while ago here and on Reddit. At time no one was talking about it, and actually my Reddit post was buried behind tons of others which was frustrating at the time given I had basically shared a partial cure. Now if you search "reddit eds glp-1" or tirzepatide you'll see tons and tons of long threads of people all saying the same thing - it's the only thing that actually helps. For me it was something of a miracle, I have two overlapping immune issues and it seems to just turn me into a much more normal, functional person. Including fixing my sleep. Never was overweight beyond maybe ~15lbs btw when I started or took it, and the effects are 100% not because of just fasting or weight loss. I had tried keto and OMAD before, and been at healthy weight my whole life. There's a definite auto-immune modulating mechanism and it's so strong it seems better than basically most first-class drugs. Even things like prednisone which are like nuclear weapons don't give me relief like Tirzepatide does. Btw highly recommend Tirzepatide of the three GLP-1 drugs, for me at least it's by far the most effective and least side effects.
- spbaar 4mo agoThirst affects me in a different way too. My throat doesn't feel dry and uncomfortable because before it reaches that point I almost get naseous.
- faangguyindia 4mo agoI remember reading the Hazada paradox, where they found these Hadza tribe members who live an active life, walking miles, hunting, and doing all physical labour, have the same maintenance calories as a Western person. So where does the energy burn in a sedentary population come from vs highly active Hadza tribe members? Pontzer’s research showed that while the Hadza were highly active, they actually demonstrated lower baselines of certain markers of metabolic and physiological stress over time compared to Western populations. Don't quote me on this; I am paraphrasing things I remember from.
- Terr_ 4mo agohttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3405064/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3405064/ > Nonetheless, average daily energy expenditure of traditional Hadza foragers was no different than that of Westerners after controlling for body size. The metabolic cost of walking (kcal kg−1 m−1) and resting (kcal kg−1 s−1) were also similar among Hadza and Western groups. The similarity in metabolic rates across a broad range of cultures challenges current models of obesity suggesting that Western lifestyles lead to decreased energy expenditure. > So where does the energy burn in a sedentary population come from vs highly active Hadza tribe members? P.S.: One theory I've seen is that the extra sedentary-spend is in the immune-system, which may have both beneficial and harmful effects, depending on whether it's doing useful work versus causing problems.
- faangguyindia 4mo ago>my body and mind are no longer is in starvation mode What does it mean? If a drug reduces your desire to eat food, wouldn't it also decrease your desire to eat food beneficial for your body? I think the effect most people want is to stop craving junk food but still eat nutritious food required for muscle growth and health.
- ceejayoz 4mo agoWhat if you could intentionally eat good food? I've heard it widely described as reducing mental noise around food.
- mycall 4mo agoPeople can get fat by eating too much healthy food.
- faangguyindia 4mo agotrue but you'll struggle getting tons of calories out of whole foods. This is why mass gainers are popular, underweight people find it hard to gain weight so they dirty bulking using fast food which is often calorie dense. Eating healthy food alone isn't solution, you need to make your life active as well.
- theturtletalks 4mo agoThe glycemic index also comes into play. It essentially measures how much certain foods keeps you full regardless of calories. So healthy food, even if you’re consuming the same calories as junk food, is going to keep you full longer.
- imajoo 4mo agoSorry but isn’t GI about how “sugary” a food is…? I don’t believe it doesn’t measure to do how full you feel. https://www.verywellhealth.com/glycemic-index-vs-load-5214363 https://www.verywellhealth.com/glycemic-index-vs-load-521436...
- dmayle 4mo agoI had the same experience, but not with GLP-1 drugs, but by upping my protein intake to about 0.7g per pound of body weight. Night and day, stopped always being hungry... I've tried Noom before (eating highly filling, low calorie foods, but filling, not satiating), but that only worked while I was tracking (and always forcing myself to keep it up)... Losing weight required work on top of that, but the protein just made my hunger response start working properly again.
- sublinear 4mo agoI had a similar experience bringing down my A1C. People talk a lot about meat, but not enough about dairy. My prayers were answered at the altars of feta, greek yogurt, half and half, butter, cottage cheese, etc. They made salads not suck. They opened up a ton of lower carb dessert options. My gut health improved. All of my health improved. I no longer treat these humble foods as optional extras. They perfectly fill the gap in my daily protein needs. They were never unwelcome, just forgotten.
- nullc 4mo agoHow'd your LDL?
- sublinear 4mo agoCholesterol levels are normal. I did mention salads, but fair enough, I forgot to mention how important fiber is. Some people look to these comments for advice. I'm not advocating for a crazy diet. I'm just saying people ignore the basics and assume that healthy food has to be miserable. Small changes add up and make a big impact.
- magicalhippo 4mo agoI recall reading a metastudy of EU studies about 10 years ago, where they focused on three different diet classes: calorie counting, low carb, high protein. Calorie counting diets had no restrictions on what they ate, as long as the participants didn't exceed the calorie target. Low carb (Atkins) had no calorie restriction but had to restrict carbs. High protein also didn't have calorie restriction but participants had to ensure at least 20% of the calories in meals were proteins. They found that while all helped people lose weight, only the high-protein made it stick reliably. I used that as basis for my own weight loss and it worked very well for me. As you said it made me full in a different way. YMMV.
- taurath 4mo agoAs a counter example, I found myself unable to eat anything at all even with anti nausea meds, and my head utterly in a fog that felt like I was becoming ill.
- catigula 4mo agoThis sounds concerning to me.
- vladmk 4mo agoMice are not people, but interesting link
- randycupertino 4mo agoI'm on GLP-1 and it's completely stopped my urge to online shop. I used to browse/shop for fun and out of habit or when I was stressed out or wanted a treat etc. Entirely resolved! I've also lost 40lbs on it.
- sandcat_ 4mo agoI'm curious, has it affected pleasure at all in other areas of life? Are things you used to enjoy still as enjoyable? Is it more the "addictiveness" of things that has dropped, as opposed to how enjoyable they are? (Never tried them myself, but very intrigued by them.)
- vidarh 4mo agoI went on them because I started boomeranging back after a long and very successful diet. It was pretty much the plan - I wanted to get as far as I could "naturally" and then use GLP-1's to bring me the rest of the way and keep me there, but I was surprised at just how rapidly I started adding weight again. It stopped me cold and has gotten me almost back down at the lowest I was at after my diet so far and I keep losing at a slower pace but basically without effort. In terms of pleasure, I'd say mostly no with some caveats. I have fewer snacks, and drink less coke, and I enjoyed both. I don't find chocolate or baked goods as enticing any more, but it's not stopped me from enjoying them on occasion. It's more that it's stopped me from wanting them as often. I find it easier to tell myself not to grab a snack when I'm already full in particular. Before I might overeat to the point of discomfort. So when I now actively choose to enjoy those things, I'm more likely to actually enjoy the whole experience. I'd say the exception is probably coke, which I do find less enjoyable.
- habinero 4mo agoIt's more like...you just don't want them? It's kind of wild. The first week I took them, I discovered there was a loop in my brain that was constantly thinking about food, and I never realized until it got switched off. That's the best way I can describe it. I could basically always eat before and now I just...don't feel like it lol. I will say, they are rough when you first start out on them. During the 1st 6-8 weeks I had several instances of maaaaaybe five seconds of warning between feeling nauseated and vomiting. It settles down after a couple months and it was never bad enough to be a dealbreaker, but it's a fun time.
- jbird99 4mo agoCould be related to endorphins and BDNF, similar to the effect from fasting.
- y-curious 4mo agoI got severely downvoted in the past for badmouthing GLP1s here. Then I did my research, got on them and I take it all back. These things are on par with statins in terms of potential societal impacts.
- PeterHolzwarth 4mo agoThat's quite admirable to correct yourself in public. Good on ya.
- nubg 4mo agoYes. I wonder if taking GLP-1 made him have higher morals as well!
- SubiculumCode 4mo agoits possible.
- sph 4mo agoVery weird (or funny?) to use statins as an example of a ‘good and effective’ drug.
- incognito124 4mo agoWhy do you say that? My first exposure to statins was in https://myticker.com https://myticker.com and they seem somewhat important
- shlant 4mo agothe vast majority of the anti-statin crowd are just regurgitating talking points they heard from people in their diet tribe - usually keto/carnivore
- 9x39 4mo agoThat says more about the harmful effects of obesity than anything.
- hellzbellz123 4mo agoAs a habitual habit developer, Im keeping my hopes up that in 5 or 10 years, this is something that can help me and many others. I've read experiences from people on illicit substances that claimed they helped them quit. It would be beat if this carried over to things like caffeine/nicotine/thc/etc.
- buck746 4mo agoThere's anecdotal accounts of GLP meds helping with a range of addictions. Of course in science anecdotal accounts are the lowest tier of evidence, that's only top shelf in law.
- declan_roberts 4mo agoIt's not just anecdotes. Eli Lilly is actively in trials with a glp-1 peptide brenipatide for treatment for certain kinds of addictions, such as alcohol, smoking and opioid addictions.
- kube-system 4mo agoI believe it. I never heavily drank but I have very little interest in drinking on tirzepatide. The “it would be nice to have a drink or two” on a Friday evening just vanished.
- zhivota 4mo agoTirzepatide at 1mg/week reduced my muscle soreness. I felt less depressed but this might just have been situational because I've been plagued by bad soreness after working out for years. Unfortunately after twelve weeks I had to stop because I felt a lot of nausea and tenderness in my upper abdomen, and was worried it might be pancreatitis developing. I'm not sure why it would happen at such a low dose but the symptoms reduced pretty quickly as it wore off. I may go back on later with a dose spread over a longer period with the hypothesis that the drug has a longer half life in my body and what I experienced was a gradual build up. Considering I lost 15 pounds over 3 months as well, I believe this to be very plausible.
- tapoxi 4mo agoI got pancreatitis from Zepbound, but it was indirect. Turns out rapid weight loss can cause gallstones, especially if you're genetically predisposed to them. I had one that ended up stuck in the bile duct, causing acute pancreatitis. I had to get my gallbladder removed shortly after and hundreds of stones were found. I would consider getting an ultrasound since the stones don't just go away when you stop taking the drug. (Gallbladder removal aside I had no lasting issues and kept the weight off.)
- zhivota 4mo agoThanks for sharing, it makes sense. Even before taking Tirzepatide I have had issues my whole life with greasy / fatty stool, and now that I've had reason to research the gall bladder, it does make me wonder if perhaps I also have stones.
- tapoxi 4mo agoBest of luck, if you do end up needing your gallbladder removed (they don't just remove the stones) it's a pretty simple procedure. I was out of the hospital after a few hours. No negative effects, and I don't need to worry about that happening to me again.
- perilunar 4mo agoWouldn't that be cholecystitis (and a cholecystectomy), not pancreatitis?
- storus 4mo agoMetabolic theories of mental illnesses and cancer are seriously understudied.
- joshuamcginnis 4mo agoStudies show almost all subjects regained the weight and reversed gains within 2 years. This means underlying issues (e.g., food addiction) aren't being addressed. Short of changing habits, the only maintenance solution is lifelong drug use and that doesn't sit well with me.
- PeterHolzwarth 4mo agoA couple years of reduced weight, and all the benefits that entails, doesn't sound bad.
- crooked-v 4mo agoPlenty of people have lifelong drug use of, say, caffeine, or aspirin as a blood thinner, or various antihistamines. Why is this somehow worse? Particularly keeping in mind that it's very easy to make, so once the patents expire, it's going to be dirt cheap as generics everywhere.
- joshuamcginnis 4mo agoI'm just sharing my personal preference and not trying to tell people how to live their lives. I don't like personally like the idea that I'll only be healthy if I take this drug for the rest of my life when I could (again - speaking for me), be more disciplined about the food I put into my body.
- kolinko 4mo ago“be more disciplined” - did you read any studies about the sources of obesity? Or do you struggle with weight since childhood yourself?
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- m1keil 4mo agoWhy this has to be all or nothing? You can use the drug to loose weight while trying to understand the underlying problem.
- crooked-v 4mo agoI'm curious if this post will also have the same phenomena I've seen before of people springing out of the woodwork to post moralizing comments about people shouldn't rely on drugs, about how actually GLP-1s are bad because they don't fix problems indefinitely with a single dose, about how people should fix their problems by just having more willpower, talking about 'but what about the unknown side effects?' of drugs that have been in use for twenty years already, etc.
- nonethewiser 4mo agoWhy shouldnt it?
- buck746 4mo agoSemaglutide has been used for diabetics for roughly 20 years. The FUD angle is just people rambling against something that doesn't affect them personally. Everyone knows the only things that matter are what effects "you", everything else is just fantasy. If we could rid ourselves of that mindset we could build a much better world.
- SubiculumCode 4mo agoAnd it surely did. Like clockwork. And it is annoying.
- sp527 4mo agoA lot of people have had to accept that they've wasted a considerable amount of time and energy on something that is being heavily devalued by GLP-1's. They've also lost an important vector for status signaling. This particularly offends narcissists and the hyper-competitive. They desperately need to restore status, and one easy option is, in effect, "oh you're still ugly on the inside." By way of analogy, it has the same underlying motivation as the various sumptuary laws that arose in response to the mass-manufacture of silk. > The Elizabethan Restrictions: In 1574, Queen Elizabeth I passed strict sumptuary laws to curb "unprecedented social mobility". The Crown decreed that no woman could wear silk cloaks unless her husband was at least a knight, and restricted fabrics mixed with gold or silver to Earls and above. > Income Thresholds: In 14th-century England, if an esquire or merchant wanted to wear silk, they had to legally prove they made at least £100 a year. If they didn't meet the financial threshold, wearing the fabric was a criminal offense.
- metalman 4mo agoso, the whole mouse thing is a scam, and now they are openly testing on us, first, and publishing in psychology today to see if we notice.fiendish.
- microgpt 4mo agoall of life is an experiment. If you're religious, you might consider evolution as a god. If not, just know there are so many random variables that everyone is a unique experiment with sample size of 1.
- OptionOfT 4mo agoMy insurance stopped covering, now I'm looking at $450 for Zepbound / month. Just the weight coming back is making me more depressed...
- jzkdroid2 4mo agoYou can probably use some coupons like goodrx to get it for $300 a month.
- cjbgkagh 4mo agoI get mine on the black market, 50c/mg for semaglutide, $3 per month at my current rate of usage. I’ve been on it for years, I was getting gray market at $12/mg for 3 years before RFK clamped down on that market. It’s exactly the same stuff (for me, no guarantee for others), had it tested in a lab and as the side effect profile is on point. It massively relieved my ME/CFS, back when I started there was no way I could have gotten a prescription let alone insurance to cover it.
- declan_roberts 4mo agoGRAY market is way undercounted in peptide use. Go to the gym and there's like 25% of the people there taking gray market peptides (some for weight, some for injury repair, etc)
- phil21 4mo agoThat would be black market, almost assuredly if you are talking about "injury repair" peptides. Exceedingly few prescribers in the US are writing for those. Grey market references stuff like HIMS where you are getting a real doctor to write you a prescription and a shady compounding pharmacy takes those Chinese black market peptides, compounds them, and ships them to your door. Black market is just going direct to the source in China and getting them for yourself without a prescription.
- cjbgkagh 4mo agoGray market includes research peptides in that they are legal to sell for research purposes, not for the purpose of human consumption.
- replwoacause 4mo agoHasn't done jack shit for my depression. Also worth mentioning GLP1's are known to cause anhedonia. So there's that...
- jfaat 4mo agoKnown to who? I just did a quick search didn't see anything that like a scientist or physician said about this. Someone who describes himself as a 'biohacking educator' said it without citing sources though.
- declan_roberts 4mo agoI can say the things I like, I like the same or even more (higher sex drive is one noted example). I can sit and program for hours now without thinking about other things. I assume this is what people who took Ritalin felt. I do notice it makes it harder for me to get up and do certain harder, outdoor chores.
- downrightmike 4mo agoYup, helps Gila monsters go so long without eating/doing anything
- devcatapult 4mo agoWhat about the reports of bone density loss? Any downsides to this?
- kolinko 4mo agoWhat reports?
- pitaj 4mo agoFrom what I've seen it's mostly related to just losing weight in general (less weight -> less musculoskeletal stress -> weaker bones and muscles). Weightlifting can counteract it.
- phil21 4mo agoLike all weight loss, you will lose lean muscle mass and bone density as part of it if you do not take corrective measures. And even with such measures, you will likely lose some either way for the medium term. It's very difficult to lose only fat during a long term calorie deficit. The answer is getting into a regular schedule with resistance weight training. Obviously not all that many people will pull it off, but if you can pull it off you can stave off the worst of the side effects in many cases.
- swalsh 4mo agoI have a composition scale, and regularly get vitamin d, and calcium tests (had issues with both) since taking the wegovy pill in Feb, I have not loss any bone density, and pretty minimal amount of lean muscle (i think any weight loss will have some lean mass loss). I have lost fat, kicked drinking, and my lipids improved dramatically.
- dyauspitr 4mo agoWhat’s the downside to this magical drug. There has to be a downside…
- ceejayoz 4mo agoWhy does there have to be a downside? What was the downside of washing hands before surgery?
- 9x39 4mo agoBecause our bodies are delicate systems of networks, and inputs in one area can have complex/unpredictable outputs elsewhere, it seems. Typically, if something "works", there often appear to be side effects. A free lunch is rare. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/understanding-medication-side-effects-and-homeostasis https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/understanding-medica...
- krackers 4mo agoThe fact that GLP-1 seems to have roles not just in satiety but that agonists seem to reduce other types of impulsiveness (e.g. gambling, shopping) is interesting. That's not something you'd predict as a consequence, and perhaps is downstream of some gut-brain connection. Of course we already manipulate brain chemistry in other more direct ways with antidepressants so perhaps any unwanted second-order effects could be minor in comparison to the profile of existing antidepressants .
- 9x39 4mo agoYeah, that's a good point. I hadn't heard about impulsiveness. I had read that taste preferences changed - e.g., salty, sweet, savory, fatty: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7105351/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7105351/ I've been watching developments on how GLP1s seem to go beyond just hunger/insulin response, even how they may affect symptoms of polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), which is difficult on women who have it: https://academic.oup.com/ejendo/article/194/3/S25/8488941 https://academic.oup.com/ejendo/article/194/3/S25/8488941
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- TMWNN 4mo agoThe more I hear about GLP-1 drugs, the more I think there is something to the joking suggestion of putting it in the water supply.
- crooked-v 4mo agoI personally think that once the patents expire, it will be about as universal as antihistamines, or if not, only because of the larger side effects like rapid weight loss causing gallstones.
- qsxfthnkp2322 4mo agoThank god I have RO at home with people suggesting things like this. Positive or negative, I don't want drugs in my water.
- jona-f 4mo agoThe "gut-brain axis" is mostly bullshit invented to cope with the fact that doctors have sent patients to shrinks for decades with real sicknesses. Everybody knows you feel bad when your digestive is out of balance. It's the same english word for "I'm sick" and "I feel sick" since forever. No magical newly found "gut-brain axis" needed. Eating junk food, especially sweetened food is a drug. You can do a withdrawal and get the reduction of food noise reported with semaglutide without getting dependent on another drug with so far unknown long-term effects.
- theshrike79 4mo agoBut the drug feeds the flora in your gut, which tells your brain to crave more of it. Like if you completely cut off sugary foods for 2-4 weeks you won't crave them as much. Why? The gut flora that feeds off sugar specifically dies off and can't send as strong signals to your brain. Thus: gut-brain axis. It's a thing and will become more important when we study it more. Your brain isn't as much in control as you think.
- jona-f 4mo agoYour explanation doesn't seem plausible to me. If your stomach and small intestine is working properly, the bulk of the bacteria shouldn't see much sugar. Afaik the mechanisms how the intestines regulate the gut flora are not well understood. At least not to the point where there are any working treatment for the many widespread digestive problems. There is some slow progress around fecal transplant research.
- theshrike79 4mo agoThere's a bunch of "in mice" research on it, but with actual humans it's really hard because we don't yet have the tools to measure the baseline composition of gut bacteria before and after the experiment. It's all mostly just anecdotal and empirical. Same with the fecal transplant stuff, which (AFAIK) basically replaces one persons gut biome with a different one. Which causes cravings to change completely for the recipient, in some cases resulting in weight loss. Which, to me, kinda tells that it's not a willpower or brain thing, it's just the gut biome controlling what you "want" to eat.
- blubber 4mo agoIn mice Edit: the title should have such a tag
- Illotus 4mo agoGreat drugs. Have dropped 10+kg couple of times and tried a few more with low carb. Dropped 20+kg with Ozempic and it boosted me to exercise. Its wonderful that even a string of bad nights don't push me to overeat: even if I eat more during the day it tapers of in the evening whereas before ut would just continue.
- tsoukase 4mo agoFrom my real world experience of a few dozen patients, there is definitely a mood boost but only to those who lost weight. The effect may be due to the weight loss confidence and/or other mechanism. The cause seems difficulty to find. My advice: in monopolar depression with increased weight especially due to binge eating take the SSRI Fluoxetine 20mg 1 up to 2 daily. It will make wonders.
- sleight42 4mo agoWish I had that microbe. Ozempic made me suicidal. Still here though. Zepbound doesn't that that effect. Maybe the smaller dosage of the GLP-1.
- microgpt 4mo agoIt just says 403 Forbidden?
- butlike 4mo agoThere's no free lunch so what's the downside? I don't believe in ghosts, and I DON'T believe in miracle cures.