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Smart move to acknowledge this and go for the debt restructuring while the current U.S. president sees Venezuela as his major foreign policy win. The governmen

Smart move to acknowledge this and go for the debt restructuring while the current U.S. president sees Venezuela as his major foreign policy win. The government will be able to leverage that to get the U.S. government to push for far more favorable terms for Venezuela than it ever would have otherwise.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
sourcegrift 4mo ago
Like him or hate him, Venezuela has been quite literally a fabulous win.
- outside1234 4mo ago
  Literally nothing has changed except for the names though?
- panick21_ 4mo ago
  Yeah, slightly changed market for something that didn't matter that much to begin with. Its was a successful military operation. A fabulous win is WW2, ending the Cold War or things like that.
- rurp 4mo ago
  Fabulous win in what ways, and for who? I'm genuinely asking, as I haven't followed the country much. From what I have read the same corrupt repressive regime, the one that ran the country into the ground, is still in place while the democratic opposition that had shown some life in recent years has gone silent.
  - watwut 4mo ago
    Yeah, but did you considered that democracy was never a goal? Republican party is in full swing to destroy American democracy, why would they seek to create one in Venezuela? Bribes and oil were the goal. Consolidation of allied dictator was goal. That worked.
    - breppp 4mo ago
      That's not a bad policy, considering America's disastrous history of spreading democracy and then finding out those voters want different shades of fascism
      - lern_too_spel 4mo ago
        America has a disastrous history of propping up dictators who are overthrown and replaced by governments who can then justify anti-Americanism as a populist political strategy.
      - watwut 4mo ago
        America has more history of destroying democracies and actively proping/helping dictators then of trying to create democracies. It did made germany democratic after wwii. That really happened. But then it has stream of helping dictators and killing democracies while being acting confused when locals did not appreciated it ... and when different violent movements joined the game. America is even supporting fascists parties all around Europe right now. If they win, it is going to be mainly eu dysfunction. But it will also be true that America actively sponsored fascists and actively undermined democracy in Europe. > spreading democracy and then finding out those voters want different shades of fascism Where exactly this happened, really?
        breppp 4mo ago
        > Where exactly this happened, really? Iraq, Egypt, Gaza, Post-Soviet Russia comes to mind among others
        lern_too_spel 4mo ago
        Any government that isn't democratically chosen is illegitimate. Better a democratic fascist government than a dictatorial fascist government, which will have to be more brutal to maintain power.
        4mo ago
  - kipchak 4mo ago
    The pro argument I find most convincing is that the US's interest is mostly in restricting oil going from Venezuela to China, which previously was the majority destination of of Venezuela's imports. A similar case can be made for Iran. China possibly expecting something to this effect has recently built up both it's coal and renewables capacity, as well as an extremely large SPR.
    - mrguyorama 4mo ago
      Any claim at all that Trump is running any sort of strategy against China blows right up the second you look at anything else he has done. All his bullshit market screwing, tariffs, poor diplomacy has pushed everyone right into China's sphere of influence. Instead of competing with the products China creates, we leave them out of our own market while the rest of the world continues to buy from China. The stupid as hell war against Iran has eliminated our stocks of munitions, leaving the pacific basically undefended against China. We pulled weapons out of our Pacific allies to go waste them in the desert. There is no cohesive strategy and China has been preparing for us to cut off their oil for over a decade now, and has made massive strides in the development of independent energy like Solar to protect them.
      - kipchak 4mo ago
        imo this sort of strategy is not decided at the POTUS level, or at least there's consensus. For example during Biden's term the trade war largely persisted or expanded. Competing in terms of production is realistically not an option (Triffin Dilemma, strong currency means exports other than tech/finance are inherently noncompetitive). Competitive exports would require giving up the dollar as a unilateral reserve currency, and China for the reverse reasons, at least for now, does not seem to want the Yuan to be a reserve currency. My personal read is both sides wish for something like the current system to persist but on more favorable terms. I agree China has been actively taking steps for this scenario, but that they're continuing to make strides seems to indicate it is still an issue. I think we're still in the thick of it before a victor is conclusively decided either way.
- gitaarik 4mo ago
  In what sense exactly? Apart from that they caught a high-level criminal in a questionable way?
legitster 4mo ago
It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. Without even changing the party in power, Trump can pretend Venezuela is reformed and do all of the economic normalization a liberal president never would have gotten away with. But the back-to-back policy disasters are otherwise a good reminder that a broken clock is only right twice a day.
- znpy 4mo ago
  > It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. It's almost like people currently in the white house know what they're doing, right? Who would have thought! /s
  - mothballed 4mo ago
    They know what they're doing, it just looks like they don't because they're not doing the thing people think they're doing. This includes the war with Iran. Double dipping by fueling the military industrial complex blowing it up, then they'll be influencing who gets the contracts for the $300B secured. It makes no sense from a geopolitical standpoint. It makes perfect sense from the perspective of enriching influential persons.
  - refulgentis 4mo ago
    I'm happy to give charity as a general principle, but here, we're a bit off (the comment is pointing out ~nothing changed, which is accurate)
  - outside1234 4mo ago
    They know what they are doing in the sense that it is all about the looting
  - dralley 4mo ago
    The same people attacked Iran without a plan for what to do if they closed the Strait of Hormuz
  - arrrg 4mo ago
    The current admin has been embarrassingly bad at wielding the awesome powers of the US in a meaningful way. Of course the US are the all-powerful juggernaut with many levers to pull to use their power. Winning battles is easy. Winning the metaphorical war is harder.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

sourcegrift 4mo ago

Like him or hate him, Venezuela has been quite literally a fabulous win.

outside1234 4mo ago
Literally nothing has changed except for the names though?
panick21_ 4mo ago
Yeah, slightly changed market for something that didn't matter that much to begin with. Its was a successful military operation. A fabulous win is WW2, ending the Cold War or things like that.
rurp 4mo ago
Fabulous win in what ways, and for who? I'm genuinely asking, as I haven't followed the country much. From what I have read the same corrupt repressive regime, the one that ran the country into the ground, is still in place while the democratic opposition that had shown some life in recent years has gone silent.
- watwut 4mo ago
  Yeah, but did you considered that democracy was never a goal? Republican party is in full swing to destroy American democracy, why would they seek to create one in Venezuela? Bribes and oil were the goal. Consolidation of allied dictator was goal. That worked.
  - breppp 4mo ago
    That's not a bad policy, considering America's disastrous history of spreading democracy and then finding out those voters want different shades of fascism
    - lern_too_spel 4mo ago
      America has a disastrous history of propping up dictators who are overthrown and replaced by governments who can then justify anti-Americanism as a populist political strategy.
    - watwut 4mo ago
      America has more history of destroying democracies and actively proping/helping dictators then of trying to create democracies. It did made germany democratic after wwii. That really happened. But then it has stream of helping dictators and killing democracies while being acting confused when locals did not appreciated it ... and when different violent movements joined the game. America is even supporting fascists parties all around Europe right now. If they win, it is going to be mainly eu dysfunction. But it will also be true that America actively sponsored fascists and actively undermined democracy in Europe. > spreading democracy and then finding out those voters want different shades of fascism Where exactly this happened, really?
      - breppp 4mo ago
        > Where exactly this happened, really? Iraq, Egypt, Gaza, Post-Soviet Russia comes to mind among others
        lern_too_spel 4mo ago
        Any government that isn't democratically chosen is illegitimate. Better a democratic fascist government than a dictatorial fascist government, which will have to be more brutal to maintain power.
        4mo ago
- kipchak 4mo ago
  The pro argument I find most convincing is that the US's interest is mostly in restricting oil going from Venezuela to China, which previously was the majority destination of of Venezuela's imports. A similar case can be made for Iran. China possibly expecting something to this effect has recently built up both it's coal and renewables capacity, as well as an extremely large SPR.
  - mrguyorama 4mo ago
    Any claim at all that Trump is running any sort of strategy against China blows right up the second you look at anything else he has done. All his bullshit market screwing, tariffs, poor diplomacy has pushed everyone right into China's sphere of influence. Instead of competing with the products China creates, we leave them out of our own market while the rest of the world continues to buy from China. The stupid as hell war against Iran has eliminated our stocks of munitions, leaving the pacific basically undefended against China. We pulled weapons out of our Pacific allies to go waste them in the desert. There is no cohesive strategy and China has been preparing for us to cut off their oil for over a decade now, and has made massive strides in the development of independent energy like Solar to protect them.
    - kipchak 4mo ago
      imo this sort of strategy is not decided at the POTUS level, or at least there's consensus. For example during Biden's term the trade war largely persisted or expanded. Competing in terms of production is realistically not an option (Triffin Dilemma, strong currency means exports other than tech/finance are inherently noncompetitive). Competitive exports would require giving up the dollar as a unilateral reserve currency, and China for the reverse reasons, at least for now, does not seem to want the Yuan to be a reserve currency. My personal read is both sides wish for something like the current system to persist but on more favorable terms. I agree China has been actively taking steps for this scenario, but that they're continuing to make strides seems to indicate it is still an issue. I think we're still in the thick of it before a victor is conclusively decided either way.
gitaarik 4mo ago
In what sense exactly? Apart from that they caught a high-level criminal in a questionable way?

legitster 4mo ago

It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. Without even changing the party in power, Trump can pretend Venezuela is reformed and do all of the economic normalization a liberal president never would have gotten away with. But the back-to-back policy disasters are otherwise a good reminder that a broken clock is only right twice a day.

znpy 4mo ago
> It's really absurd how well the Maduros kidnapping plan worked. It's almost like people currently in the white house know what they're doing, right? Who would have thought! /s
- mothballed 4mo ago
  They know what they're doing, it just looks like they don't because they're not doing the thing people think they're doing. This includes the war with Iran. Double dipping by fueling the military industrial complex blowing it up, then they'll be influencing who gets the contracts for the $300B secured. It makes no sense from a geopolitical standpoint. It makes perfect sense from the perspective of enriching influential persons.
- refulgentis 4mo ago
  I'm happy to give charity as a general principle, but here, we're a bit off (the comment is pointing out ~nothing changed, which is accurate)
- outside1234 4mo ago
  They know what they are doing in the sense that it is all about the looting
- dralley 4mo ago
  The same people attacked Iran without a plan for what to do if they closed the Strait of Hormuz
- arrrg 4mo ago
  The current admin has been embarrassingly bad at wielding the awesome powers of the US in a meaningful way. Of course the US are the all-powerful juggernaut with many levers to pull to use their power. Winning battles is easy. Winning the metaphorical war is harder.