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It will pay for itself if you spend >300$ per month. I personally wish Waymo have a 399$ per month subscription that give 2 free ride per day so I don't need to
by smy20011 4mo ago
It will pay for itself if you spend >300$ per month. I personally wish Waymo have a 399$ per month subscription that give 2 free ride per day so I don't need to own a car just for work.
- ErroneousBosh 4mo agoThat sounds more expensive than just owning a car.
- joshgachnang 4mo agoCar payment, insurance, parking, gas/electricity? Going to be over $400/mo in almost all cases in any of the cities Waymo is in.
- libria 4mo agoAdd tag tax, residential parking, subsidized work parking, maintenance, incurred violations, tolls. 400/mo or 5000/yr for not having to worry about all that plus never playing the "wait let's circle the block, maybe a spot has opened up" game... sounds tempting.
- tjohns 4mo ago"Incurred violations" should be effectively $0. How often are you getting a traffic ticket? I think the last time I got a ticket was a decade ago...
- ihaveajob 4mo agoSpread across a city probably more than you think, especially if you include parking tickets. I've never had a driving ticket, and maybe 4 parking ones over decades, but I'm probably on the lower end of the curve. In their first 40 days of operation, Oakland's speed cameras issued 82,000 tickets according to reports. I welcome those as they make streets safer, and I think they should be low cost, but high frequency.
- jefftk 4mo agoI would expect tickets issued during the first 40 days to be higher than later, as people haven't adjusted yet
- cucumber3732842 4mo agoOr lower because the system is under public scrutiny and they don't wanna tune it for revenue just yet. Hard to say because nobody who makes such decisions gets that high in government by writing down their deliberation on such matters.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- MarkusQ 4mo agoYeah, that seems like an odd factor to include. The whole message of fines is supposed to be "don't do these specific anti-social things" not "be sure to factor in the arbitrary charges you'll be hit with".
- dml2135 4mo agoYou'd be surprised at how many people will only see the latter. When they introduced congestion pricing in NYC, there were actually people who were commenting, completely unironically, along the lines of "There's no way I'm going to pay that, I'll just take the train. That'll show em!" They 100% saw the fee as solely a means to tax residents, and didn't even consider that the primary purpose could be to change behavior.
- throwaway2037 4mo agoI saw some wildly ignorant videos on YouTube of objectively wealthy people complaining about needing to driving (a few blocks!) to 59th Street to visit a relative, but needing to pay the congestion fee. I think these people have no idea how insulated there are from the Real World.
- infecto 4mo agoIf you live in a city, parking tickets are fairly inevitable. I am sure some folks get away with none but at least in SF I have gotten tickets that were not even for the correct meter and it’s takes more time (at least used to) to fight it than pay the money.
- 0x457 4mo agoI lived in LA for over a decade with a car and got zero parking tickets. I wouldn't call it inevitable.
- defen 4mo agoI've never lived in Los Angeles but the one that gets you in San Francisco if you do street parking is the street cleaning, and the random vandalizations.
- infecto 4mo agoGreat? Too many variables such as not having to park on the street or bad/good luck. If you live somewhere that has street cleaning, street parking and meters there is a good chance of getting a ticket. Not everyone but the likelihood increases and most of LA does not really check most of those boxes at least in the areas I have been.
- 0x457 4mo agoStreet cleaning days/times are posted and if they aren't - you can contest and win the case. Meters? It's easy to NOT park in one hour zone if you need more than an hour. It's easy to avoid parking next to fire hydrant. I have a friend that often parks in 30 minutes zone, for her hour-long yoga, sometimes she gets a ticket, but that's a gamble she is willing to make. You don't magically get tickets in big city, you get tickets because you ignored the rules willingly. Couldn't find parking because you were in a rush? Who decided to not account for "time to find parking time"?
- infecto 4mo ago
- agumonkey 4mo agomaintenance, petty car body degradations.. things gets pricey real fast
- echelon 4mo agoI've got 200,000 miles on my Toyota and it's only ever had oil changes, brake pads, and new tires. It'll probably make it another decade. Or two.
- agumonkey 4mo agoDid you know before hand this would be the case ? cause even when choosing a model that was deemed well made and long-lasting, we hit an unfortunate engine belt timing failure (100k cars were concerned, we got one..) and had to replace the whole thing.
- Melatonic 4mo agoHow many times did you replace the timing belt (and probably water pump) before the failure ? Curious what vehicle this is
- agumonkey 4mo agoIt was a nissan micra k12, and I used the wrong term, it's not a belt it's a timing chain (metallic) allegedly designed for longer longevity, but there was an industry issue (bad alloy or something) that made them stretch and lose sync with the timing chain counter circuit. The ECU would trip and rapidly the engine would just stop (quite dangerous depending on which road your on). Car mechanics had to swap the whole engine.. we sold it not long after that.
- ErroneousBosh 4mo agoMany years ago (like 30) an old neighbour of mine gave me his Nissan Micra K10 because the timing belt had snapped. It had been his first car that he'd bought, and he couldn't bring himself to scrap it. I bought him a pint, because we were in the local pub, and fair exchange is no robbery. So, we towed it up to my house with my mate's Suzuki Jeep, and I set about removing the head. Sure enough, belt snapped, wrapped round the cam pulley, all eight valves bent. It turns out, my mum's neighbour used to use K10s as her driving school cars, and when one had been written off in an accident her husband had pulled the engine. But, now he wanted his shed cleared to get his boat in, and would I mind giving him a hand? Yes of course I'd give him a hand, and he gave me the engine. So 25 quid or so of my hard-earned dole money and I bought a Haynes manual for the Micra (which I still have, the manual not the car), a head gasket set, a timing belt set, and six tins of beer, and set about reassembling the engine with the good head off the engine from the shed. It took a few hours of a nice Sunday afternoon and by early evening it was back together and would start and run, come up to temperature, no bubbles in the coolant, no funny noises, smooth as silk. I put another 85,000 miles on that in the next four years before it eventually got to the point where it was just too rotten to consider welding any more. I kind of wish I'd just chucked it into a nice dry shed and left it until I could properly strip the shell and weld it up. It would be tax and MOT exempt by now, a historic vehicle! Can you imagine, a historic D-reg Micra?
- fortran77 4mo agoAnd in SF your car will be broken into at least 2x/year, unless you always have protected garage parking everywhere you go.
- dyauspitr 4mo agoBut you get two rides a day. You’re gonna be stuck in your little quadrant your whole life.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- rurp 4mo agoThis stuff varies a lot by location. Sure in San Francisco and a handful of other cities parking and tolls cost a great deal, but that's not the case in most locations and presumably Waymo's goal is to expand far beyond a few locations. People in, say, Phoenix aren't paying for parking. If you don't have a car payment your monthly transport costs are going to be much lower than that.
- tencentshill 4mo agoThat payment gets you a $28k used car at best, assuming no other costs. It won't be anything fancy.
- nobody_r_knows 4mo ago[dead]
- jasonlotito 4mo ago> assuming no other costs. Assuming normal costs, you are looking $21-$22k not including taxes. There is no way you are finding a car for $28k for just $400. Trust me.
- zamadatix 4mo agoI think they are just saying something like 400 * 72 gives you an absolute hard ceiling of 28k and change. Once you add in interests, sales tax, and other fees, you end up with something like the numbers you're saying. 72 months sounds stupid, because it is, but extremely long car loans are becoming increasingly common these days https://www.marketscreener.com/news/new-experian-automotive-report-shows-nearly-one-third-of-automotive-loan-terms-are-longer-than-six-y-ce7f5ddadd88f322 https://www.marketscreener.com/news/new-experian-automotive-... and you can even sometimes go to 84 if you really want that 28k number at $400/m.
- OkayPhysicist 4mo agoMy brand new Chevy Bolt only cost me like 22k, after the $7500 tax rebate. It's a perfectly nice car.
- applicative 4mo ago"the total average annual cost of ownership—which includes your car payment, depreciation, fuel, insurance, maintenance, and taxes—is approximately $12,297 per year (or $1,025 monthly) over a 15-year lifetime"
- Rumudiez 4mo agothat's crazy. my 2005 volvo, 1991 nissan, and 1986 toyota altogether cost me a little over $1k per year (mostly insurance) and it was less than $10k total to buy them all. goes to show average financial literacy in the US. people won't save a few grand for a used car (or take out a small loan even!) and then pay 10x the cost for new
- yoavm 4mo agoDo they run on air?
- cortesoft 4mo agoYou don’t pay for gas? Oil changes? New tires? Air filters?
- tjohns 4mo agoOil changes cost like $35/year if you do it yourself. Decent tires last 4-5 years, so that's like $100/year (to be generous). Air filters are so cheap and need replacement so infrequently as to not even be worth counting.
- officeplant 4mo agoI can only get 1-2 years out of tires, but I also drive 25K+ miles a year. (And its a heavy EV Van) Tires are $800ish a set for the affordable ones (also due to heavy van) Cabin air filter is twice a year at $18 a filter (I replace them as soon as it smells weird) Home electricity is cheap at least. (7¢/kw)
- 4mo ago
- minwcnt5 4mo agoDepends where you live. In SF, parking alone is more than $300/mo if you have to pay for a spot. Also, many companies subsidize Waymo rides for employees as part of their commuter benefits.
- throwaway2037 4mo ago> Also, many companies subsidize Waymo rides for employees as part of their commuter benefits. Wild. I believe it... but who?
- xnx 4mo agoWaymo?
- gamblor956 4mo agoWaymos, Uber/Lyft, and taxis don't qualify for commuter benefits in California.
- Schiendelman 4mo agoYou mean they don't qualify for the tax exemption. They are often still offered as benefits to the employee.
- gamblor956 4mo agoThey are often still offered as benefits to the employee. Offering Waymo and taxis as "commuter" benefits (meaning, to/from the employee's home) to the employee is considered taxable income to the employee unless it's used so rarely that it is considered a nontaxable fringe benefit. As this creates payroll headaches, most companies outside of perhaps a few in the Bay Area do not offer Waymo or taxis or black car services or Uber/Lyft as "benefits" to the employee. This is different from the kind of travel costs that can be expensed by employees (i.e., for business trips, client meetings, etc.).
- STRiDEX 4mo agoparking in my condo that i own is $200 because the parking spaces are not deeded, shit is crazy here in sf
- parl_match 4mo agowell, you voluntarily purchased a condo without deeded parking. if you want private storage for your private vehicle, pay for it. i have a sports car and two motorcycles, and consequently, i did not buy a condo in the mission. instead, i bought a house by 19th street bart and my commute to the city is shorter than some of my coworkers who live half as far as me (by distance).
- dbbk 4mo agoWhat? No
- parl_match 4mo ago"sounds"? How about you do the math? Suddenly, it makes a lot more sense.
- solenoid0937 4mo agoEven if it is expensive, it's much more convenient
- abirch 4mo ago+1 for convenience. My commute is 60 minutes of train + walking. I prefer that to driving for 30 minutes where I can't read or create.
- ctoth 4mo agoWe're talking about a robot car, right? So this won't change?
- abirch 4mo agoYou're correct. I was trying to build on the parent comment about convenience. Worst case this is an option I don't take, best case is that this would give me more time (shorter commute) with the benefits of being able to read or create.
- IncreasePosts 4mo agoPaying for the cost of the car, gas, maintenance, insurance, parking is way above $399/mo in every market which waymo operates.
- wcfrobert 4mo agoApproximate monthly cost of owning a car in the city: Lease or loan: $350 Parking in city: $300 Car insurance: $180 Gas: $120 License/Registration: $42 (~$500 per year) Maintenance: $17 (~$200 per year) If you live in the city and you can afford not driving, please put that extra $1000/month into your brokerage or HYSA
- 0xffff2 4mo agoIf two Waymo rides per day is covering your driving needs, there's no way you're spending $120/month on gas. Also, car insurance in CA is a huge ripoff, but I still don't pay anywhere near $180/month for very thorough coverage on my ~$40k car. Believable enough otherwise though.
- thebigman433 4mo agoWhat are your policy details and who is your provider for <180$ for "thorough" coverage?
- 0xffff2 4mo agoComprehensive, collision and 500k liability through USAA, $120/month. Deductibles are as high as they will allow, which is $1k IIRC. I was recently forced to consider a move to Utah. Thankfully I didn't end up moving, but a quote for the exact same coverage in SLC was just $40/month.
- xnx 4mo ago> through USAA, $120/month Good deal, but not available to most.
- 0xffff2 4mo agoI shop around regularly. USAA isn't even remotely the cheapest option, and the handful of experiences I and family members have had suggest that they are just as shitty as any other insurance company when it comes to handling claims. I only stick with them because they are consistently within 20% of the cheapest option and I value having all of my banking and insurance handled in one place.
- cco 4mo agoParking: $325 Insurance: $134 Car payment: $330 Charging: $50 All-in for me is around $850 a month. Though I use it far fewer times per month than GP implies, i.e. I don't commute every day via car. EDIT: I left out that this is a lease, so of course not including any potential depreciation, wear and tear, repairs etc, just the hard costs.
- hibern8 4mo agoI imagine that is where society is headed. No one owns a car and most people pay for a subscription to an autonomous taxi.
- throwaway2037 4mo agoNever. Only rich urban centers is this possible.
- reaperducer 4mo ago[flagged]
- throwaway2037 4mo agoHonestly, I think your post is/was unfairly downvoted. Your sarcasm is spot-on, especially for HN which has an ongoing, eternal debate around urbanism. I will reply in good faith. For the United States, the following places come to mind (central/super-rich areas of these cities): Boston, NYC/Manhattan, Washington D.C., Miami, Chicago, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Seattle. (For any Texans here: I am struggling to pick a city in Texas, even though many are very wealthy!)
- MagicMoonlight 4mo ago[dead]
- rurp 4mo agoDid you mean no one who does 100% of their driving in urban cities? I could maybe see that happening some day, but 10s of millions of Americans don't fit that description and to one degree or another drive in areas that Waymo has no interest in supporting since the unit economics will never be that good.
- csa 4mo ago> I personally wish Waymo have a 399$ per month subscription that give 2 free ride per day Assuming $20 for a typical paid trip, I’m guessing $800 would be closer to what they would charge for 2 free rides a day within SF. $400 might be were it ends up when it’s widely adopted and a mature product — probably in the “budget” category of a segmented market.
- f_allwein 4mo agoRealistic costs of owning a car are around 1.000€ per month - see https://assets.adac.de/Autodatenbank/Autokosten/autokostenuebersicht.pdf https://assets.adac.de/Autodatenbank/Autokosten/autokostenue... (pdf, German, look for Gesamtkosten (total cost)) Wherever I tell this to people here in Germany, they are good at pointing out why their car is the exception.