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Kioxia and Dell cram 10 PB into slim 2RU server
- zeristor 6mo agoTell me about the thermals.
- zamadatix 6mo agoMax per drive is 25 W, so even a rack with 20 servers of 40 drives each is probably less than the average GPU rack even after the other overheads.
- louwrentius 6mo agoWhat would this cost?
- cr125rider 6mo agoMore than you can afford cause you had to ask, ha
- gosub100 6mo agoYou can't buy this stuff anymore. They are leased and rented through layers of middlemen.
- bracketfocus 6mo agoThey are likely 200USD+ per TB, so one 250TB drive would be ~50,000USD. There’s probably bulk pricing, but if you bought 40 drives separately thats 2,000,000USD in storage alone.
- DannyBee 6mo agoIt's actually now at least 400 per tb. The 64's are 25k, up from 6k a year ago. I have to imagine the 128's or 256's are at least 500/tb
- geerlingguy 6mo agoI can't remember where I saw it, but I think each of these high capacity drives is in well into the 15-25k price range. So a petabyte will be $600-800k alone, plus a server with enough high-speed PCIe lanes to serve the 40+ drives, definitely $1m+
- retired 6mo ago$500 on Facebook Marketplace in 20 years time.
- reactordev 6mo agoRemember that season of Silicon Valley on HBO that was all about “the box”? I feel like we’re in that season.
- darknavi 6mo agoJust waiting for the Gavin Belson edition box.
- tanseydavid 6mo agoSignature edition ;)
- swed420 6mo agoI wish they'd make new episodes for the AI age.
- reactordev 6mo agoA lot of what we have today is a result of some of the stuff they had on the show back then. Most companies weren't doing NN's in 2016 but SV was. I agree that there needs to be a 2.0 maybe with a different cast, different company trying to make it but it's RIPE for today's market.
- joe_mamba 6mo agoCan't wait to move my spinning rust NAS to this in 20 years.
- tempest_ 6mo agoNVME SSDs are consumable items more so than HDDs are. These drives will arrive in the secondary market to be snapped up by businesses lower in the food chain. By the time you can find them they will be ridden hard and put away wet that you probably wont want them.
- theandrewbailey 6mo agoI work in the refurb department of an e-waste recycling company. Some SSD brands are more durable than others. In my experience, a greater proportion of Intel and Micron SSDs are (or have) failed than any other brand. It's as if sysadmins are like "Intel is a good brand, lets use these SSDs to cache our HDD storage array", then throw them out when they turn read-only.
- loeg 6mo agoI went to QLC for my NAS last cycle. The $/TB was worse, but not by a huge margin, and the performance is quite a bit better (not that it matters).
- mx7zysuj4xew 6mo agoSadly none of that enterprise hardware will ever make it to you due to being wastefully shredded
- theandrewbailey 6mo agoI work in the refurb department of an e-waste recycling company. In my n=1 data point, some server drives are shredded/destroyed, some aren't (maybe half) before they reach my team. Of the ones that aren't, most are too small to sell, or have bad reads or reallocated sectors. Maybe 10% are fit to resell, not zero.
- 6mo ago
- fancyfredbot 6mo agoThe very first sentence of this article mistakes Terabytes and Petabytes. I used to dismiss the entire article as poor quality on seeing a mistake like this. But these days it also feels like an indicator the article was written by a human and might actually have something interesting to say. Sadly not in this case though - the Kioxia drives are interesting, but the fact that Dell has put some in a box is much less so.
- wildzzz 6mo agoAll it really means is that big corps that have already existing sales relationships with Dell will be purchasing them in the next fiscal year. Anyone else that needed this level of storage density has already built their own boxes.
- NitpickLawyer 6mo agoThere's been a lot of talk about orbital DCs lately, but with these levels of density, orbital CDNs might be a more obvious usecase. It would be interesting to see if something like Starlink can use something like this to cache media content and reduce their overall data moving through the constellation. It could even be worth it to have some satellites in higher orbits (even GEO if the ground hw can reach it) dedicated to streaming media content. You can tolerate higher RTT for content that doesn't need to be real time.
- ssl-3 6mo agoIf I correctly understand what you're suggesting, then that could save on uplink bandwidth. Sending one copy into space, and then sending it back down over and over again sounds nice. But does it solve a problem that we actually have? Is uplink bandwidth a pressing limitation?
- evil-olive 6mo agono, absolutely not. orbital datacenters are never going to happen, it doesn't matter whether you try to frame them as compute or storage or whatever else. the extreme density of these SSDs is actually an anti-feature in the context of spacecraft hardware. the RAD750 CPU [0] for example uses a 150nm process node. its successor the RAD5500 [1] is down to 45nm. that's an order of magnitude larger than chips currently made for terrestrial uses. radiation-hardening involves a lot of things, but in general the more tightly packed the transistors are, the more susceptible the chip is to damage. sending these SSDs to space would be an absurd waste of money because of how quickly they would degrade. and then there's the power consumption & heat dissipation. one of these drives draws 25W [2] and Dell is bragging about cramming 40 of them into one server. that's a full kilowatt of power - essentially a space heater in a 2U form factor. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD5500 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD5500 2: https://americas.kioxia.com/content/dam/kioxia/en-us/business/ssd/enterprise-ssd/asset/KIOXIA_LC9_Product_Overview.pdf https://americas.kioxia.com/content/dam/kioxia/en-us/busines...
- NitpickLawyer 6mo ago
- bombcar 6mo agoFull NICs takes about 666 minutes to fill this thing. Satan’s NAS!
- retired 6mo ago[flagged]
- nickstinemates 6mo agoHitting a little too close to home with this comment.
- trvz 6mo agoNot quite yet. The interesting thing here is ~256TB in a single drive, but it's in E3.L form factor. I have about 160TB on hard drives that I'm waiting to offload onto a single SSD. But that needs to come with a connector that has adapters to USB-C, so I can attach it to my Macbook Neo. Hopefully they get it a bit more dense soon and into the 2.5" NVMe form.
- jauntywundrkind 6mo agoThere's a ton of different adapters already between edsff connector used for e3 / e2 / e1 drives and everything else pcie already (pcie, m.2, u.2). For example this pcie card. (Good luck tweaking your equalizer settings jumpers by hand though, whew!!) https://www.microsatacables.com/pcie-x8-gen4-with-redriver-to-gen-z-2c-edsff-aic https://www.microsatacables.com/pcie-x8-gen4-with-redriver-t... Drop that in one of the many usb4 to pcie docks and you should be good to go. Pretty fugly but it ought to just work! I think there's some cheaper models that are under $90 still available, but here's a listing. https://www.dfrobot.com/product-2835.html https://www.dfrobot.com/product-2835.html I believe a more focused dedicated usb<->NVMe chip might also work, if attached to an edsff connector. I didnt look hard, but I haven't seen any such products yet, but: it's mostly mechanical/packaging, some signal integrity checks, but generally wouldn't really be much different in the end than a NVMe adapter. Seems very doable. Build it! Someone could sell (to quote a Daily Show) literally dozens of said adapter! (Eventually probably many many more, but not a huge second hand market for edsff atm).
- trvz 6mo agoIt needs to be portable/travel-friendly, something like this: https://global.icydock.com/product_327.html https://global.icydock.com/product_327.html
- Pallav123 6mo agoAt current enterprise NVMe prices, the drives alone for this must easily push past the $500k to $1M mark. It's fascinating to see this level of density, but it’s strictly going to be hyperscaler or high-end defense/research budget territory for a long time.
- mikestorrent 6mo agoI'd double your guess on this one
- buzer 6mo agoThe list price seems to be ~40M. https://www.dell.com/en-hk/shop/servers-storage-and-networking/poweredge-r7725xd/spd/poweredge-r7725xd/asper7725xd https://www.dell.com/en-hk/shop/servers-storage-and-networki... Select the 40 slot chassis and put 40 of those 245TB disks in. Comes out at ~HK$317M. Of course HK prices might also be higher than what Dell USA offers. Now how heavy the discounts you can get I don't know.
- tempest_ 6mo agoMy understanding is no one actually pays Dell sticker price. They list that price on the website but if you talk to whatever they are calling their sales reps you get the real price.
- buzer 6mo agoI know, I'm just not sure how high discount you are going to get in this kind of system. My understanding is that the discounts normally tend to be something like 30-40% so it would still be within same magnitude (10M+).
- kristjansson 6mo agoThat can't be right. You could buy an aisle of NVL72 or _one_ 2U server?
- twotwotwo 6mo agoIt is kinda neat how the density can trickle down. When an individual SSD can hold tens of TBs, recent-gen drives can do millions of random reads/s each, and one socket can handle lots of RAM and many cores, it doesn't take the fancier chassis with two sockets or lots of storage bays to handle pretty substantial data work. On the other hand, current part prices are not neat; a commodity platform only helps so much if none of what you want put in it is affordable! And other factors like power and cooling can push you away from optimizing for density. I just like that along with the ludicrious becoming possible, merely great stuff becomes more feasible.
- ksec 6mo agoThis is one of the case limited by PCIe speed, sharing it with SSD so Network could only do 5x400Gbps Network. This is on PCIe 5.0, luckily we have 7.0 spec ready and 8.0 is even in 0.5 draft status. If we could somehow increase the density further by 5x, we would be able to store 1EB in a single rack. The most interesting part to me is the last sentence. >Scality tells us it’s working on supporting a future nearline-class SSD from Samsung, viewed as an HDD killer, with similar or even larger capacity and a roadmap out to a 1 PB drive. Finally a HDD killer. May be in another 5 - 10 years time. The day of everyone having an SSD NAS / AI Cloud at home will come.
- loeg 6mo agoQLC already beats out HDD in power constrained hyperscalar environments. Capex is not the only factor.
- ksec 6mo agoYes but Only when power is a factor. Nearline Cold Storage is not the case here. And after nearly 6 years we still haven't have a solid contender to drive NAND BOM further down. So the news of competing with Nearline is certainly exciting.
- varispeed 6mo ago10PB is probably the amount of data a medium sized country can collect about its all citizens (basic details, work history, all taxes, all financial records, all medical records, all police records, all biometric records and more) for their lifetime. I think development like this might get many public sector focused firms sweating.
- jandrewrogers 6mo agoThose records are going to be pretty negligible in terms of storage. It is only a couple new records per day. Even if you add things like detailed mobile and tracking telemetry, it is a few MB per person per day.
- danhon 6mo agoSomeone please fix the title for this.
- smallerize 6mo ago9.8 PB?
- amelius 6mo agoIf datacenters start buying these things, will we see consumer harddrives go up in price?
- joezydeco 6mo agoKioxia was my eMMC supplier until earlier this month, when they said they couldn't fill my orders anymore. They're sold out. So, yes.
- nout 6mo agoI could do some cool backups with this bad boy.
- metadat 6mo agoNow make it for consumers. Storage capacity per dollar has really stalled.
- zamadatix 6mo agoReversed even. Years ago I built an NVMe NAS out of 4 TB drives, thinking "gee, SSD price sure have gotten stagnant lately" at the time. Now you can barely get 1 TB drives for the same price.
- tesdinger 6mo agoAll the increases in density are impressive, but they come with the downside of repairability and recycling difficulties. I hope we can still repair this when parts of it break or at least recycle it properly. No matter how high tech it is, eventually this will break.
- geerlingguy 6mo agoThese drives all use standard enterprise storage interconnects, and the server chassis is like other Dell server chassis. Not using ATX or EATX, but it's status quo for Dell, and many old Dell servers wind down their old age in homelabs. Hopefully one of these 10 PB monsters will be under $2,000 someday, at which point I will pop it in my homelab :)
- a1o 6mo agoNow you put this in a cruise ship and you can move a lot of data
- mmanfrin 6mo agoTime for my NAS to get an upgrade.
- bitwize 6mo ago"Let's build a compact, hugely data-dense server that absolutely no one can afford!"
- stego-tech 6mo agoLook, out of all the BS that's come from the current AI CYOA (bubble, revolution, scam, whatever floats your particular boat), the one thing I'm optimistic for is the absolute glut of memory that'll be available once this cycle wraps up. I'm salivating at the thoughts of finally producing memory in such quantities that we can retire HDDs for bulk storage in all but the edgiest of edge cases; of more solid state tech seeping into consumer and business devices, enabling us to compute locally again instead of leaning on cloud providers for extra storage. Hell, I'd just be happy to see 4TB TLC or QLC SSDs coming in under $100 with endurance ratings that aren't garbage. C'mon, 60TB SSD NAS for my media collection, or 20TB external SSD for backups. Get that density up and those costs down, already.
- Melatonic 6mo agoBuy low and sell high
- crest 6mo agoMeanwhile those without cheap credit to burn through can't even get a reasonably sized system SSD without selling a kidney.
- rldjbpin 6mo agorelated: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44643038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44643038