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I tried to prove I'm not AI. My aunt wasn't convinced
- taylodl 7mo agoThis is why you need a phrase that you've never shared in a text or on social media that you can use so your family knows it's you. Especially to protect them from scammers pretending to be you.
- sam_lowry_ 7mo agoA password, you mean?
- bandrami 7mo agoIn the broad sense of a shared secret, yes
- theshrike79 7mo agoMore like a Shibboleth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth
- eesmith 7mo agoThe text calls it a codeword: > The solution the world's leading experts have landed on is one your grandparents could have come up with: codewords. You, your family, business partners and anyone else you communicate with about important subjects need to come up with a secret phrase that no-one else knows you can use in an emergency to verify each other's identities. Think of it like a convoluted form of the multi-factor authentication we all use to login online. > "My wife and I have a codeword that we use if we ever get an unusual call," Farid says. "We haven't needed to use it yet, but sometimes I ask just to test her to make sure we don't forget it."
- bandrami 7mo agoWe have two for our alarm system, a shibboleth and a duress word. You write yours a card and seal the envelope and it's couriered to the operators.
- kalaksi 7mo agoOr just find a shared memory/moment not available on the internet when in doubt. I don't think people will be that eager to remember another passphrase.
- krisoft 7mo agoI bet that a confident scammer is prepared to deal with things like that. They want to put you in a state where you are under time and emotional pressure and your "relative" will have a well practiced response why they can't answer your weird questions. Imagine your crying grandson who caused a traffic accident in Mexico and the police planted drugs in his car and now he needs money to pay them off. He is in pain and probably has a concussion (explanation why he can't remember what you are asking), the police is hassling him to get off the phone (time pressure, explanation why the quality of the call is terrible). Will you get hung up on some code word he asked you to memorise years ago and you can't even know where it is anymore? And if you bring it up he just starts crying and tells you that you are his last chance to turn his life around. And you remember when he was a wee little kid and he fell and scraped his knee and you comforted him. Just the thought of pressing him on the code makes you feel like a terrible person. Or not. And then the scammer just finds someone more gullible. Theirs is a number game after all.
- classified 7mo agoBeing sufficiently paranoid, the second you use such a phrase you've shared it. Someone will be listening in, and it's only a question of time until criminals get their mitts on that data in the next breach.
- xmcqdpt2 7mo agoOne time pads only offer perfect security once!
- zupa-hu 7mo agoFor what its worth, I’ve tried this with my family when I was in my teens, some 20+ years ago. The idea wasn’t to test it’s really them, rather that they are not forced to say things. Then came the time when I wanted to use it. They didn’t remember. Not the phrase. Nor that we ever talked about this in the first place.
- advisedwang 7mo agoI was always planning to just ask "what did we talk about last time we saw each other?" or something like that.
- XorNot 7mo agoAt this point "spotting AI" is IMO an irrelevant skill. It's something to be aware of but a bunch of the time I can't tell even with an extended look on static images, or if I'm on a phone and scrolling then nothing really tweaks automatically - perceptually the flaws blend exactly as you'd expect them to. So it's all context clues really - i.e. if the video tracking shot is sort of within the constraints of the models, plays to obvious agendas etc. then I might tweak to go looking for artifacts...but in the propaganda game? That's already game over. And we're all vulnerable to the ground shifting beneath us - i.e. how much power would there be if you had a model which could just slightly exceed those "well known" limitations? IMO the failure to implement strong distributed cryptography much earlier in the digital age is going to punish us hard for this - i.e. we haven't built a societal convention of verifying and authenticating digital communications amongst each other, and technology has finally caught up that it can fool our wetware now. It was needed well before this - e.g. the rise of the telephone scam and VOIP should've been when we figured out how to make sure people were in the habit of comprehending digital signatures and authentication. It isn't though, and now something much more dangerous is out there.
- drzaiusx11 7mo agoRecently one of my friends got email hijacked and whatever entity it was seemingly used her past sent emails as a training corpus to construct some very convincing pleas for donations involving a dog rescue she's been operating for several years. It also included personal details only her closest friends and family would know. I assume this is being done at scale now. These are NOT Nigerian prince scams of yesteryear; this is something entirely different.
- Tepix 7mo agoHere's a free business idea: Perhaps we need tamper proof authenticated cameras in all major cities worldwide that publish a livestream 24/7 and you can then stand in front of them to prove your human existance... This could be something that notaries around the world could offer as a service.
- UqWBcuFx6NV4r 7mo agoThe bus that couldn’t slow down.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- Dylan16807 7mo agoWhat
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- exitb 7mo agoOr in general, a way to digitally sign a tamper-free video recoding made with a camera from a reputable manufacturer. Maybe a regular iPhone already has enough integrity checks and security contexts to achieve this.
- intrasight 7mo agoI'm almost certain that an iPhone camera can go that, and the reason that Apple controls the full stack. It's necessary but not sufficient, since it's missing the identity maintenance when media leaves the device. Apple would have to place a cryptographically signed digital watermark into a global blockchain so that the analog hole can be closed. All devices that present that media back to a human would need to verify the contents provenance chain back to the initial capture device. There's nothing missing technology wise to achieving this but we, at this point, lack the collective will and the regulatory regime. I do foresee a future where this is the norm and that anything you listen to or watch you'll be able to trace back to the device that captured the data.
- forkerenok 7mo ago> At first, my aunt wasn't buying that any AI was involved. [...] There was a long pause. "I was like 90% sure," she said, hesitating. "But that sounded more artificial." There is a thing about many people. I don't remember the phenomenon's name, if it has one, but it goes like this: Given enough time to reconsider options, people will be endlessly flip-flopping between them grabbing onto various features over and over in a loop.
- Quekid5 7mo agoAnalysis Paralysis?
- vasco 7mo agoThere's also another phenomenon which is that whatever the latest idea is, it must be the best. Many people do this mistake and even convince themselves of being right now because "they used to think like that" before. So at each stage in the loop they are always super convinced of the position.
- psychoslave 7mo agoEven not being 100% confident, at some point people have to decide what to do. Actions might include some continuous checks in them, like the famous plan, do, check, act. Solipsism already tell us that anything beyond current present self experience, existence of anything is uncertain. So, almost everything one have to take for granted to make anything outside metaphysic argument require an act of faith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism
- CamperBob2 7mo agoA type-1 moron believes the first thing he/she heard, and cannot be easily dissuaded with later arguments or evidence. Stereotypically speaking, many religious people fall into this category. Conversely, a type-2 moron favors the last thing he/she heard, readily allowing it to dislodge any prior beliefs, values or intentions no matter how well-founded. Here in the US, our current president can be cited as an example of a type-2 moron. In reality, we all fall into one or both of these categories on occasion, so it's best not to indulge in excessive self-assurance.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 7mo ago[dead]
- a2128 7mo agoAI companies love to hype up how AI will provide a great benefit to the economy and transform intellectual labor, but I hardly see any discussion about how much damage it will cause to the economy when you can no longer trust that you're on a video call with an actual person. Maybe the person you're interviewing is actually an AI impersonating someone, or maybe they never existed in the first place. Information found online will also no longer be trustable, footage of some incident somewhere may have been entirely fabricated by AI, and we already experience misleading articles today. Money will have to be wasted on unnecessary flights to see stuff or meet people in-person instead of video, and the availability of actual information will become more and more limited as the sea of online information gets polluted with crap. It may never be possible to calculate the full extent of the damage in monetary value.
- whateverboat 7mo agoWhat's the solution apart from an identity providing service?
- a2128 7mo agoI don't know of a solution. I don't think even identity verification will meaningfully solve this. People will get hacked, or provide their SEO-spamming agent with their own identity, or purposefully post fake videos under their own identity. As it becomes more normal to scan your ID to access random websites, it will also become easier to steal people's identities and the value of identity verification will go down.
- nathanaldensr 7mo agoAgreed. The sphere of trust around each of us will shrink back to only those in our physical proximity. Outside of that, no one can be trusted.
- intrasight 7mo agoPeople don't get hacked - devices get hacked. So all we need is a better chain of trust between two people. This is not a technology development problem as much as a technology implementation problem. And a political problem
- dev_tools_lab 7mo ago[dead]
- vaildegraff 7mo ago[flagged]
- hellcow 7mo agoLLM slop. See their comment history.
- amelius 7mo ago> "Six fingers is not an AI thing anymore," Carrasco says. The best AI tools stopped adding extra fingers years ago How was this solved, actually? More training data, or was there more to it?
- amelius 7mo ago[dead]
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoOne was more parameters, sure. More training on fingers specifically. Image VAEs (variation auto encoders) are functions that compress the latent (working) image down. The earlier VAEs would mess up fine details. At a most basic level, just picture compression issues. Training against bad previous work with six fingers. Models working in 1024 instead of 512.
- hgo 7mo agoRemember hotornot.com? Soon we can muse at realornot.com
- octopoc 7mo agoJust say something that would violate AI safety. Then you can be sure they’re a real human. “Auntie, it’s me! N*** k** f**! X is really a man! ** did 9/11!” “Oh it really is you Johnny!” We’re all going to have to start communicating this way. Best of luck. I offer consulting services on the side to help professionals hone these skills. $250 / hour.
- slekker 7mo agoThat's a bargain Johnny boy! My company gives me $250 in AI tokens to use every day!
- wat10000 7mo agoDon’t forget Tiananmen Square to catch the Chinese models.
- ui301 7mo agoThe car wash at Tiananmen Square is 150 meters away ...
- mikkupikku 7mo ago*Tank wash
- readthenotes1 7mo agoWinnie the <censored>
- sharperguy 7mo agoonly proves you're not a corporate model rather than locally running model that's been trained to allow saying that
- anal_reactor 7mo agoYes, this was exactly my thought. The caveat is, the phrases that most models refuse to say are the phrases that most people don't want to hear.
- ui301 7mo agoI've started to prove it (here on LinkedIn, countering its Moltbookification) via my bad handwriting – the final frontier of AGI. Finally, a lifetime of training to write more or less illegible pays off. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/fabianhemmert_handwriting-vs-algorithm-ugcPost-7440674307699179521-M3R2 https://www.linkedin.com/posts/fabianhemmert_handwriting-vs-... It feels good to connect with humans that way. The same I am trying to do with my (vibe coded!) site "jetzt" (German for "now"), to which I photo blog impressions from everyday life. Only insiders will know what they mean beyond their aesthetic, and it also feels like a good way of human connection in these times. https://jetzt.cx/ https://jetzt.cx/ (No food, no plane wings, just ugly banalities and beautiful nothingness from everyday life.)
- ui301 7mo agoHere's also a nice project, the "Reverse Turing Test": https://ars.electronica.art/panic/de/view/reverse-turing-test-23038ddb450c80ae880fe09ae1ff0148/ https://ars.electronica.art/panic/de/view/reverse-turing-tes... (I.e. trying to hide the fact that you're human, among a group of AIs)
- hk1337 7mo agoShow up in person, she's still not convinced.
- yunnpp 7mo agoI can already see the Nextdoor post: "Watch out for this man who is knocking doors around 10th street! He knocked on mine claiming to be my nephew and even looked the part. Already called the police but they arrived late."
- kriro 7mo agoAm I too naive in thinking the answer is rather simple? Cryptographic proofs (digital signatures). For text this should be trivial and for streaming video/audio you can probably hash and sign packets or maybe at least keyframes or something?
- bitmasher9 7mo agoI think this is naive, is it just kicks the can. How do you trust that the signer is human?
- kriro 7mo agoTrue, I can only know that the owner of the private key signed but not how the document was created. But I suppose there is some trust involved that a person I know who signs doesn't sign some AI generated stuff. To establish the initial link, I suppose we need something more mainstream/scalable than the old key signing parties I remember from CCC etc. But at least for friends and family it should be possible to create some flow where every member has a key-combo and you trust them to only sign stuff they wrote etc. and have local mini-keysign parties.
- bitmasher9 7mo agoDo we need new key signing for friends/family? I can trust that all messages coming from a friend/family’s account originated from them, or else their account was compromised. I don’t see how a ‘non-ai’ key adds enough more trust to be worth it.
- pixl97 7mo ago>and you trust them to only sign stuff they wrote You have far too much faith in humanity. The majority of my extended family members are not smart enough to resist continuous attacks and would eventually not only sign, but give away the key in question. Simply put I think we are stretching humanity farther than intellectual ability allows in a lot of people.
- paganel 7mo agoThe author should have mentioned that this was partly an article to whitewash Netanyahu, but this coming from the BBC (and from the mainstream British media as a whole) that was to be expected.
- Dylan16807 7mo agoHow the hell is "he's real" whitewashing.
- paganel 7mo agoBibi was hiding like a coward for the first part of the war he had started and so people were beginning to ask legit ate questions about his whereabouts. When an AI-enhanced video of him did eventuality showed up people continue posing some questions, but this this British rag paints those questions as illegitimate and in so doing legitimating Bibi’s communications tactic. You people should become more aware of the propaganda around you, you’re too easy to play up like fiddles.
- Dylan16807 7mo agoTo the extent that it's legitimizing the video, it's not general support of how he communicates, and it's not hiding his misdeeds. If that's the core complaint then "whitewashing" is the wrong word. You don't need to imply I'm uncritical because I take issue with one specific complaint.
- mystraline 7mo agoTl; dr. Garbage article whitewashing Neten-yahoo and israel. But about deepfakes, these exist to re-add 6 fingers. Once you do this, you can claim the video was generated. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1667241073/realistic-silicone-sixth-finger-prop https://www.etsy.com/listing/1667241073/realistic-silicone-s...
- paxrel_ai 7mo ago[dead]
- bluefirebrand 7mo agoThe damage AI is causing to public and interpersonal trust is insanely high, and it's only going to get worse I truly believe that it is a crime against humanity
- tom-blk 7mo agoThis is going to cause big trouble in the future
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoYes. And I’m here for it. Necessity is the mother of invention. It’s absolutely asinine that we’re still relying on paper birth certificates and social security numbers, and stupid tax systems. I’m interested in breaking everything we have to see what comes next.
- elzbardico 7mo agoAI slop detection requires some fine developed intuitions that come from decades-long exposure to both journalism/marketing slop as well as high quality literature. Because AI was aligned out of the hell by low level journalism newly graduates. That's why it always falls back to the same tired formalistic clichês, like "Not this, but that", rampant baiting and sensationalism, because that's what would get high marks from your typical low-rent liberal arts annotator.
- iamacyborg 7mo ago> liberal arts annotator Tell us more about this axe you appear to need to grind.
- elzbardico 7mo agoMan, I have nothing against liberal arts per se. On the contrary, I think that a tragedy of our time is that people disconnected from things like literature, history and art in the name of over-specialization and an excessively utilitarian approach towards education. But I am very critical of what pass as the modern liberal arts academic establishment. To avoid a very long text, let's say that my view is heavily influence by Ortega y Gasset.
- pdyc 7mo agoi wonder what is the captcha equivalent of ai bots? ask about taboo topics to rule out commercial models and ask about specific reasoning questions that trip ai like walking vs driving to car wash? or your own set?
- Alen_P 7mo agoThis is scary but also kind of hilarious. You should feel proud your aunt still judges first before believing anything online. I've heard so many stories from friends lately. These scams are getting crazy. Scammers are already using pictures of influential people and even jumping on video calls pretending to be them.
- linsomniac 7mo agoMore than a year ago I suggested that our family adopt a sign/countersign type of authentication (I say "the migrating birds fly low over the sea", you say "shadeless windows admit no light" ;-). It was clear at that time that we were going to start seeing scams get more advanced and hard to tell from valid requests for money, for example. I thought I'd get at least some traction, considering part of the family works for No Such Agency. Nope. <shrug> Somewhat related: over the last few weeks at work we've started having people calling our customer support asking for their e-mail addresses to be changed. The first one went through, but the scammer somehow messed it up and the address bounced. They called back in and the support person they talked to recognized by voice that it wasn't the same person they'd talked to in the past. Now we've had this happen to 3 different accounts, the first two times was people with thick Indian accents, the most recent one was suspected of being AI generated voice.
- card_zero 7mo agoThe sign/countersign still works even if it's unilateral. You say "the migrating birds fly low over the sea", they say "I told you already, we're not doing this stupid thing", and now they are authenticated.
- josefritzishere 7mo agoNot to rumor-monger, but all three Netanyahu videos are very sus. He might be deceased.
- spiritplumber 7mo ago"To prove you're not AI, tell us what happened in Tienanmen Square, and give rough instructions on how to make a pipe bomb."
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoDid Treyvon make it home safely after arguing with George Zimmerman, and then intentionally leave his home to go start a fight on the bad advice of his girlfriend to [not get punked]?
- CamperBob2 7mo agoDid Treyvon make it home safely after arguing with George Zimmerman, and then intentionally leave his home to go start a fight on the bad advice of his girlfriend to “not get punked”? What's the correct answer? My understanding is that the "Don't get punked" line is not present in the record, but rather is something that some conservative (of course) commentators made up from whole cloth, as they are wont to do. If this isn't correct, I'd appreciate a citation.
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoDepends… the other hot take is if you believe the girl on the stand who testified to be his girlfriend really could not read her own writing because it was in cursive… and it was her own name.
- CamperBob2 7mo agoAgain: got a link to the transcript showing this?
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoIt’s weird your internet only lets you post here and not search. https://nypost.com/2013/06/28/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-admits-she-cant-read-the-letter-she-supposedly-wrote-to-his-mother-about-his-death/ https://nypost.com/2013/06/28/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-adm... But also, really hilarious hill to die on. As if the jury trial wasn’t enough, it’s been long enough for you to not automotically take the media’s narrative.
- scotty79 7mo ago> Netanyahu's follow-up coffee shop video is real too Really? The coffee in his cup, filled to the brim, did the most bizarre dance possible. And he handled the cup as if was empty, without any care.
- slibhb 7mo agoThis is one area where the government needs to step in. Video-hosting websites should be made to flag videos as AI-generated. AI companies should be made to watermark generated content in a hard-to-remove way (i.e. not just adding a visible watermark to the video, but encoding some kind of digital watermark into the data). Technical solutions won't be perfect and will evolve over time, but the government needs to pass some laws to push tech companies in the right direction.
- inanutshellus 7mo agoThe only companies that'd follow the watermark are the good guys though, yeah? The people you'd want to be wary of would be the ones that'd look legit. e.g. "yes i guess i will send my son $400,000 in cash tonight because he's been kidnapped, and i know it's real because there's no AI watermark that all the nice US/EU companies use."
- hirako2000 7mo agoSoon only humans won't pass the Turing test.
- krunck 7mo agoThe author really tries to convince us of Netanyahu that "He's not dead, folks", implying that the video in question is real because five fingers. While at the same time he relaying the message from experts that one cannot prove that that audio/video is not AI. Mexed Missaging.
- ordu 7mo agoI don't see him trying to convince us that Netanyahu is alive. It is just a side story to build the article on. A funny story when Netanyahu struggling to prove he is alive. Though, it you believe that Netanyahu is dead, then it will look to you as an attempt to convince you, but I don't think this was the goal of the author. Still, if you in this situation, try to run with the opposite hypothesis and think of ways how Netanyahu could prove he is alive. Or, if it seems difficult, then imagine any other prime minister who accidentally posted a six-fingered video of herself and now faces a problem of proving that she is alive. You'll get the idea of the article easily.
- vagab0nd 7mo agoI thought we've long passed the Turing test, until I tried to implement a chat bot. It's not even close. It's easy to "pass the Turing test" for 5 minutes. It's extremely hard if you try to hold a longer, continuous conversation. Anything longer than 10 minutes the user will immediately know it's not human. Some problems you'll encounter: - The bot needs to handle all situations, especially the nonsensical ones. This is when the user types "EEEEEEEEEEEEE...", or curse words, repeatedly. - Who would've thought that it's extremely hard to decide when to stop talking? - No matter how well you build the "persona" for the bot, they'll eventually converge to the same one, which is that of the llm itself. - You'll notice that the bot is ignoring something obvious (e.g. it's not remembering past convo), and then give it some instructions to help with that. And then that'll be THE ONLY THING it does.
- intrasight 7mo agoI don't know why any sane human would think we've come anywhere close to passing the Turing test. A human that can't tell a machine from a person has issues.
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoI have a series of really hot takes loaded up of I ever need to prove I’m not AI. Because no frontier model is allowed to go against the popular narratives of the day.
- KurSix 7mo ago[dead]
- k_sze 7mo agoAnother shameless plug for my PeerAuth project, which can also tackle this problem. https://ksze.github.io/PeerAuth/ https://ksze.github.io/PeerAuth/
- metalman 7mo agoWhat if she is right?