15 ms·

Motorola GrapheneOS devices will be bootloader unlockable/relockable

1298 points by pabs3 7mo ago

jMyles 7mo ago
Even though there doesn't seem to be huge mainstream consumer demand for this (although I actually question how well consumer demand for privacy and customization can ever be ascertained when the price signals are corrupted by a market where the winning players are essentially chosen by the state, as is arguably the case with both TSMC and Qualcomm), it still feels like the world simply couldn't go on with both iOS and Android become caged, cheapened, fragile shadows of the visions we once had for them (particularly AOSP).
- dietr1ch 7mo ago
  I think we can only expect the demand for privacy to grow into the future given that people tracking in a trenchcoat schemes are popping up everywhere through governmental and private efforts trying to gather data for ads and control.
- windexh8er 7mo ago
  Not to be flippant but who cares? People don't know there's an option. I've run Graphene for years and will gladly pay a premium for it. Beyond the bolstered security the battery life is exponentially better than a default Android device because of all the constant background traffic that Google doesn't allow any control over that you instantly have a choice with on GrapheneOS. And as soon as you start showing these things to people they do start to care and ask how. So the fact that the mainstream is ignorant and doesn't care enough yet doesn't matter because it's very likely a much larger segment of users will care when the tech evangelists they trust stop using IOS and Google Android. That's how these things started and that's how they could very well play out in this scenario as well.
  - jMyles 7mo ago
    Yes, I agree in full. Did you think I was taking a position contrary to this one?
    - windexh8er 7mo ago
      My point was irrespective of your position: it doesn't matter. The mainstream won't break the Apple/Google cycle the same way the mainstream didn't break the lock carriers once had on software updates for phones. Apple broke that through its small but influential technologists and prosumers. Motorola can potentially be that for breaking out of the locks Apple and Google have bound through hardware manufacturers. The only reason AOSP can't exist without Google has nothing to do with Google, but more with Qualcomm. Motorola has the opportunity to broker that breakout. And we need this right now. Lawmakers and big tech are locking themselves in further, the longer we don't have another option the harder it will be to move outside of these greedy corporations.
- dmix 7mo ago
  Not all markets are trendy B2C stuff. The Motorola press release specifically mentioned B2B/corporate sales where security is important and there's plenty of government, journalist, non-profits/activists, etc usecases on top of the usual corporate locked-down environments like banking.
keerthiko 7mo ago
Does anyone know where I can read more about which devices will be supported? GrapheneOS website devices FAQ doesn't list any Motorola devices, and the press release doesn't have much either.
- MYEUHD 7mo ago
  Future Motorola devices (or maybe a subset of them?) will support GrapheneOS > We're collaborating on future devices https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116159602850585685 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116159602850585685
- wolvoleo 7mo ago
  There's no details yet, but I was reading it won't likely emerge until 2027 so ostensibly these will be models that are yet to be announced. Might even be models dedicated to grapheneos (and other open source roms as they mentioned here)
- catlikesshrimp 7mo ago
  This project is in hype stage. No work seems to have been done, yet. Samsung had something as ambitious years ago, but it went nowhere https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-promised-make-old-phones-useful-galaxy-upcycle/ https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-promised-make-old-pho... Stay tuned
- vbezhenar 7mo ago
  As I understand that situation, GrapheneOS developers are super picky about hardware they want to support. So out of all android phones they decided to support only Google Pixel because only these phones provide good enough hardware support for security features they want to provide. So likely no existing Motorola phones are good enough and only new ones, developed in collaboration with GrapheneOS developers, will be suitable.
- BLKNSLVR 7mo ago
  I'm pretty sure strcat was saying on a previous thread that it will only be future models, so nothing in their current line up in guaranteed to be compatible.
ChrisArchitect 7mo ago
Related: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47214645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47214645
lordofgibbons 7mo ago
Given that Google has said they'll be delaying source code release for Android to every X months intervals (iirc), how is GrapheneOS planning to handle security updates? Will they just be Google's binary blobs?
- zeech 7mo ago
  Graphene already uses binary blobs (though one can disable them if they want). Info at [0]. [0] https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/27068-grapheneos-security-preview-releases https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/27068-grapheneos-security-p...
  - khimaros 7mo ago
    this isn't quite right. the blobs are produced by GrapheneOS and are reproducible once the source code embargo lifts.
    - zeech 7mo ago
      Whoops, nice catch - comment edited.
- izacus 7mo ago
  Motorola is a partner that has access to Android source sooner.
- Aachen 7mo ago
  Isn't that about feature releases? My understanding was that security patches are separate from this edit: looked up the announcement https://www.androidauthority.com/google-android-development-aosp-3538503/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-android-development-... but it doesn't even mention the word security. I don't know enough about the manufacturer side of things to say whether this means there's also no security updates while they work on new features
Zak 7mo ago
I'm glad to hear that. That means these devices will be a popular target, perhaps the popular target for alternative operating systems both Android-based and non-Android Linux.
- boltzmann-brain 7mo ago
  with the advent of AI assists, I can't wait for people to start hooking up SoCs, GPUs, and other components burdened by proprietary driver and firmware to logic analyzers, and letting AI have a crack at it. I wonder what'll happen - this might well be the end of proprietary blobs, and I'm here for it.
  - p0w3n3d 7mo ago
    That would be wonderful but cracking proprietary blobs which may be and probably are encrypted, would take massive amount of time, and later rework could take a lot of tokens and broken SoCs. Nowadays electronics are driven by software so one bit off and voltage can get 9V instead of 3V for example
  - mptest 7mo ago
    the end of proprietary blobs has to be the oddest set of words that excites me
  - Imustaskforhelp 7mo ago
    Oh, This might be one of the few ideas I approve AI use of. Cursor spent like Million dollars on creating a browser which people were able to make later with a 200$/100$ subscription in the same amount of days as cursor with human assistance. I don't think that this can be "autonomous", we assumed that making browsers could be autonomous process but it wasn't. That was the take I took from it all. Will this be an example of autonomous tho? I think we still need a human experienced with reverse engineering in the loop but it might significantly improve their workflow I wish if cursor, instead of having burnt million $ to something worthless essentially, Could have atleast done this experiment.
- yjftsjthsd-h 7mo ago
t1234s 7mo ago
With Motorola being owned by the Chinese company Lenovo can these new devices be used in secure environments? I remember when Lenovo took over making ThinkPads they were banned in some secure environments because of Lenovo links to CCP.
- lacunary 7mo ago
  what does "secure environment" mean?
  - mattnewton 7mo ago
    Not OP but I guess it’s where the threat model includes worrying about the foreign government actors. Like US infrastructure, government contracting or some major tech companies.
- zeech 7mo ago
  Good point. It's a good thing that, say, Google is notoriously independent from the US government, and has never had any ties to it whatsoever.
  - nitinreddy88 7mo ago
    You might want to add /s tag to it.
    - cwnyth 7mo ago
      This isn't Reddit.
      - fransje26 7mo ago
        No worries, the team Literal is alive and well on HN..
  - ffsickempire 7mo ago
    [dead]
LoganDark 7mo ago
Do we know if there there be Widevine L1 keys that aren't deleted on unlock? (Certain phones restore access to L1 on bootloader relock, as long as AVB passes, including with custom keys.)
LelouBil 7mo ago
Well, I'll surely be buying a Motorola device when GrapheneOS support lands. I've been running on several half-working recent android ports to my Xiaomi Mi 9t for many years now. If I can get a modern phone, modern android, my privacy preserved and a hackable phone (to the extent an unlockable bootloader allows, which isn't a given nowadays, I especially hate how Xiaomi does it), I'm 100% sold. We'll see when it comes out I guess!
smashah 7mo ago
Whatever this device is is at the top of my list for my next phone.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
yegle 7mo ago
I think Pixel phones are also unlockable/relockable?
- H8crilA 7mo ago
  This is how you can install GrapheneOS on these. Also, if you're wondering how does the security of something like this work: if you change the boot hash then the phone forgets all the hardware-stored secrets, for example the disk encryption keys.
- dietr1ch 7mo ago
  Samsung did restrict side-loading recently, - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47202808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47202808 I'm sure that Google will do something like that as soon as it faced the US's carrot and stick they signed-up for.
  - jeroenhd 7mo ago
    That's not really sideloading, though. The stock recovery doesn't let you install apps or anything like that, it's meant for loading official versions of Samsung operating systems onto devices that got corrupted somehow. You can probably try to use the stock recovery to flash a custom ROM, but I doubt it'll work. Custom ROMs rely on tools like TWRP or LineageOS Recovery for a reason.
yooastan 7mo ago
A physical keyboard device with GrapheneOS would mog
- mrbuttons454 7mo ago
  Hopefully it gets a port to the Clicks Communicator. From what I understand the bootloader will be unlockable.
- WithinReason 7mo ago
  Just buy a keyboard case for it, no need for permanent attachment. Or carry a tiny bluetooth keyboard in your pocket: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0FWC8G2Q8/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0FWC8G2Q8/
  - bitwize 7mo ago
    Ah, Doohoeek, a time-honored, trusted brand.
    - hn_acc1 7mo ago
      I'd rather buy from Doohickey.
- backscratches 7mo ago
  The future is now (or 2027)! 4" screen and hardware keyboard and graphene! https://www.clicks.tech/en/products/clicks-keyboard-for-motorola-razr-2025 https://www.clicks.tech/en/products/clicks-keyboard-for-moto... I cannot overstate my excitement.
mmh0000 7mo ago
If true. And I put a big if on that. I WILL be buying their flagship model. My go to for Graphene has been used Pixels from eBay. Because I can’t give money to Google in good conscience.
- aussieguy1234 7mo ago
  I too have been buying used Pixels, mostly for environmental reasons. But from a local shop phonebot. Got 3 phones from there, no issues at all.
  - Barbing 7mo ago
    Buying used introduces such a big supply chain risk. I stay safe by buying direct and asking the NSA not to open the shipment in the order notes. (y’all know this one https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa... )
    - gf000 7mo ago
      What is the supposed threat model here? Mr. Rich Guy sells me his personal device he used in the previous year because he wants new shiny phone, but he may have the very slightest chance of being a super evil genius? The government selling tampered phones on ebay, when they could just.. go directly to vendors and put their backdoors directly into new phones/software? Sorry for the light snark, but this attack vector seems way too complicated for not much benefit. Unless you are some very VIP person being personally targeted.
      - Barbing 7mo ago
        Futility I suppose, joking around about how we can’t win :) b/c as seen in the link buying new isn’t perfect
    - aussieguy1234 7mo ago
      I put GrapheneOS on the phone myself. I wouldn't trust the OS shipped with a used phone. NSA could technically do this with a new phone also and probably has.
tamimio 7mo ago
This whole thing feels like a subversion, instead of having graphene independent from devices and widen the attack vector, now the spooks can just focus on the “supported official device” only. That being said, the hardware isn’t open source (cell modem is enough to expose you), some binary blobs for the firmware aren’t open source, motorola is a US company with all what that means, if you are after anonymity or even privacy, I would stay away from it entirely, you will be like a person putting a full mask on while on public, except that mask is scanning your face in real time. You will stand out like a sore thumb, your best strategy is blending in, so the automated systems scanners won’t flag you and thus put you under further monitoring. The timing is super weird too, when all corporations are pushing for digital ID, are actively lobbying to deanonymize the users, cooperating with gov too to have a smooth pipeline for such process, and motorola the known company of having defense contracts, are suddenly caring about open source privacy?! Cmon
- scuff3d 7mo ago
  Jesus Christ...
- unethical_ban 7mo ago
  Lots of speculation, correlation and not a lot of reasonable conclusions.
  - tamimio 7mo ago
    The only speculation part is the timing, the rest are facts, only a naive will think a smart phone is ever private or anonymous. Your phone has a unique ID tied to the hardware that can ID you, your cell modem isn’t open source and is equipped with builtin high accuracy GNSS, plus other hardware and its non open drivers that can be exploited, among many attack vectors that are easily exploited on modern smartphones. This issue isn’t unique to phones too, many modern laptops are also part of it, TPM and plenty of hardware that aren’t really open, the only exception is a laptop can be used in an air gapped environment, not really the case with a smartphone, because assuming you managed to do so, it defeated its purpose to start with. The conclusion here is if you are after anonymity then you should ditch your phone entirely, having a “secure OS” won’t provide such goal but it might bring more attention to you than using of-the-shelf average phone.
rationalist 7mo ago
You know what would be good for security: Having physical disconnect switches (Bluetooth/Wifi, Modem, Power, Microphone/Speaker), and integrated lens cover like Lenovo laptops (at least for the front camera whereas a case can cover the rear cameras). On a side-note: Triple active SIM would be amazing, but one can dream. I would love to have a phone that has an active AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon SIM at the same time.
- Scrounger 7mo ago
  Google Fi will auto-switch between AT&T and T-Mobile but not Verizon, AFAIK.
  - mjg59 7mo ago
    Fi launched with Sprint and T-Mobile roaming and added US Cellular, but is presently T-Mobile only. I don't think AT&T has ever been a supporter carrier.
- adrianwaj 7mo ago
  Also a disconnect switch for the telco signal. Yet in my experience, even when turned off, a phone may send out a signal periodically anyway for tracking / triangulation purposes. However to avoid that, removal of the battery is required. A disconnect switch for power would do the same? I think moving to micro-PCs is the answer, and then having an add-on to get a telco-signal. Why trust Motorola? Start at grass roots where possible. Everything needs to be open-source and based on open standards. No trojans, telemetry or remote overrides. Maybe the product is an adapter case for a Pi that adds a screen, battery, antenna and whatever else is required to make it a smartphone alternative? Also, looking forward to Mecha Comet.
  - rationalist 7mo ago
    > switch for the telco signal Sorry, that's what I meant when I said Modem. > A disconnect switch for power would do the same? I would think so. I don't necessarily care about removable batteries because I use a portable power bank. Why carry an extra battery that only works for one device, when I can carry a "battery" that works for many devices?
m00dy 7mo ago
I think banking apps especially the ones in UK, won't work on this device.
- domh 7mo ago
  NatWest and Monzo work fine on my Pixel 9a running GrapheneOS. Community maintained list of supported banking apps here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/#united-kingdom https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... Google Wallet is not supported at all.
  - m00dy 7mo ago
    with avbroot ?
    - domh 7mo ago
      I didn't have to do any resigning or repacking apks. It just worked installed from the play store.
  - aembleton 7mo ago
    Curve works and you can set that up as a replacement for Google Pay.
- Fokamul 7mo ago
  Banking apps will be catastrophe in the future. Petition your bank, you want to use PC web app with certificate authentication. If they don't support it -> notify them and change bank. Enough people doing this, something will change.
  - dns_snek 7mo ago
    Good luck with that. Of all the things people don't really care about, I think that might be at the far end of the list. Certification authentication is neat technology in principle, I use it internally, but in my experience anyone who recognizes it also hates it passionately. It's the thing that seemingly stops working every time their taxes are due, courtesy of terrible government software. If I started telling people that they should be demanding certificate authentication from their banks, they'd probably think that I escaped an asylum.
farkanoid 7mo ago
Not sure how I feel about this. Motorola seems to be the exclusive provider of encrypted cellular networks and associated devices to the Israeli military [1][2]. I'm under the impression that basebands still require a proprietary/binary blob, basically rendering the security features of the underlying Open Source OS useless, since it sits between the user and outside connectivity. How can GrapheneOS ensure that there are no hidden backdoors (ie: Pegasus-like spyware, which was created by ex-IDF soldiers via NSO Group), etc, in the baseband? [1] https://www.whoprofits.org/companies/company/3808 https://www.whoprofits.org/companies/company/3808 [2] https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/motorola-solutions-launches-innovation-center-in-israel.html#:~:text=Motorola%20Solutions%20in%20Israel,that%20arise%20from%20the%20field. https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/mo...
- 627467 7mo ago
  Motorola Solutions != motorola mobility Ill leave you to investigate how != they are
  - herewulf 7mo ago
    This. I know some people who work for the former and they are always having to say "no, I don't work for that Motorola". The shared name is entirely historic.
    - RajT88 7mo ago
      Mobility is in Merchandise Mart, Solutions is in Schaumburg. Used to be anyways. (My office was a floor below in the mart)
  - farkanoid 7mo ago
    I did. There's long term patent cross-licensing agreements between the two companies. Motorola mobility may be a separate company now, but they didn't start from scratch.
    - 7mo ago
montroser 7mo ago
So, what is Motorola's incentive here? I love it, but why are they pursuing this? It's an enterprise / government play around auditable privacy and security?
- debazel 7mo ago
  My guess is that this is a great way for them to standout, fill a niche, and get tons of free advertisements in order to gain back some of their Android market share. Motorola has effectively lost in the Android market and are on downward spiral into irrelevance (already there?), so they have to do something different.
  - Ugvx 7mo ago
    Add to that existing grapheneos users at best only care about good enough performance and a good camera, the selling feature is security and so a lot less overhead to market such a phone. Those who want the latest features will continue to buy pixels, Samsung, and iphones. The only thing I feel is missing from the picture at a quick glance is a tablet for the few who want a secure tablet device.
    - scblock 7mo ago
      "Those who want the latest features will continue to buy pixels" My friend the GrapheneOS supported devices list is nothing but pixels, including the very latest models. It'll be good to have more supported devices. https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices
- atoav 7mo ago
  Sell devices who want to get out of the grip of US software monopolies. This is not unpopular in the rest of the world.
- stefanka 7mo ago
  Digital sovereignty. Europe is a big market and Motorola could gain traction this way
sourcegrift 7mo ago
Why doesn't someone collaborate with pine64? Chasing after any flavour of android is going to be an exercise in masochism
- NewJazz 7mo ago
  Because, and I really mean no offense to them, their phones fucking suck. Like, dogshit slow hardware with terrible drivers and a modem that barely works with last gen tech. Their most advanced phone is based on a >10 year old SoC, that wasn't even that good when it was first released.
  - gf000 7mo ago
    And even then they still don't live up to their promises, it is still not open hardware - there are a bunch of proprietary firmware, but especially silicon on these devices.
- Ugvx 7mo ago
  Grapheneos has well established its role in the android ecosystem. Having developed and upstreamed features that have as a whole, improved the security of android. Pine64 has targeted a very different market around extensibility and hacker/maker mindset. However while their phones have a lot of potential, security measures are half baked (microphone cutoff switch doesn't actually cut off the microphone), performance mediocre, and demand missing. While I love my pinephone pro, its not a dailiable device. A phone that cannot access common services like your bank account are non viable for 99% of users.
- hsbauauvhabzb 7mo ago
  Apps. Any phone without access to the Android or iOS ecosystem is doomed to fail. The only solution would be an emulation layer.
  - mrbn100ful 7mo ago
    Like Waydroid or Appsupport (only on SailfishOS) :p
Synaesthesia 7mo ago
I wonder if I'm gonna be able to flash my existing Edge 70.
- microtonal 7mo ago
  Unlikely, current devices do not have the required security features. The plan to support some devices of the 2027 lineup.
notorandit 7mo ago
It depends, but it is promising. If devs can have access to all of the hardware and related documentation and source code, then this is to become very good news. PCs became popular and widespread because of that: openness.
alexander9866 7mo ago
Does this have more security, Please let me know share the details
jaypatelani 7mo ago
I hoped they would have gone with HMD or BlackBerry.
- forkerenok 7mo ago
  Why? Multiple times in the last 8 or so years I've considered both Nokia (HMD) and Motorola. Looking at reviews and specs I decided every time in favor of Motorola, despite liking the design of Nokia's more, and didn't regret it.
- zikduruqe 7mo ago
  I was secretly hoping Framework would have produced a phone that would collaborate with GrapheneOS. I know it is a stretch, but one can dream.
  - actionfromafar 7mo ago
    I wish Framework would release one of its regular laptops, beefy battery and all, except it runs Android (on an ARM processor of course). I mean, they already have RISC-V. https://frame.work/se/en/products/deep-computing-risc-v-mainboard https://frame.work/se/en/products/deep-computing-risc-v-main...
sandreas 7mo ago
If anyone from Motorola is reading this: Please add a smaller device to your Portfolio, about max the size of a Pixel 8. I'm not hoping for an audio jack any more but at least small it could be. All in all: Thank you for making this possible.
- throwaway81523 7mo ago
  The whole Moto G series has audio jacks, at least as of a year or so ago. I hope that Graphene makes it to those affordable models. I don't need high end cameras or AI on my phone. In fact AI is quite unwanted.
  - panny 7mo ago
    Lol, no, according to graphene, an aux jack is a security problem. So is a microsd. But the hole punch with the camera pointed at your face, that's just fine. When my current phone dies, I'm basically returning to a dumb phone with a removable battery. Now that Xperia dropped open source, every phone out there is terrible and I just don't want any of them. Anything that would support a ROM has features to make my skin crawl.
    - sheiyei 7mo ago
      It's a shame that modern banking (and communication with my family) needs a smartphone.
      - Aachen 7mo ago
        Does it? My banking works in any browser that supports javascript, and chatting has been possible on desktops (and laptops etc.) longer than it has on phones
    - throawayonthe 7mo ago
      why do you say "according to graphene?" have they said those things? or do you just mean the currently supported devices don't have these
Elfener 7mo ago
I would love to see devices with a non-destroyed (corners cut off, random hole for the front camera) screen.
- dashzebra 7mo ago
  I much prefer maximizing screen to body ratio, even if some sacrifices have to be made: rounded corners and punchhole cam. I'm also pretty sure rounded corners are stronger on impact.
- Liftyee 7mo ago
  You still get the same rectangular screen size for a given size of phone body, unless you want no front camera and sharp square corners. You still get an entire 16:9 screen area in the middle of a rounded corner screen, just with extra screen replacing the bezels on each end.
- dminik 7mo ago
  I'm fine with rounded corners. But I would also like a phone without a selfie camera. I just don't ever use it. If my phone can spy on me then that's the only use the front camera has ever had.
  - krior 7mo ago
    just put a sticker on it
    - pschastain 7mo ago
      Still lost screen real estate
Imustaskforhelp 7mo ago
Is this feature gonna be on All phones including Low-end/mid-end (4-8Gb ram) and their flagship phones? It's gonna be huge if that's the case because Pixel's here are expensive, their second hand prices are in "non-global" countries[0] and you have to pay a premium. Also I live in world's largest second-hand phone market and it can have its worries as well. You can't say to anyone who wants privacy, oh just buy a second-hand pixel. It's just not that easy. But if Motorola can launch multiple phones and there are always gonna be some deals one way or another (with cards) and as motorola phones are pretty competitive in price, Finally we can have phones worldwide where privacy isn't charged extra. I have spent some hours looking at online second hand phone stores to find but due to its somewhat rarity, I always feel like being frugal, I am just paying extra for privacy and so I am really happy with decision from motorola using their supply chain of phones and partnering up with Graphene. I was gonna buy a phone for myself, I was thinking a second hand pixel phone but given the things I said earlier at this point, I might as well wait for a few more months to get the moto phone. I just hope that they launch an affordable phone with grapheneos. I really don't care about specs as I have been able to live my life with 7 year old motorola phones too in 2026 for sometime. I will definitely recommend my family Motorola phones in the future and slowly convert everyone to motorola if motorola releases an affordable phone with actual privacy. [0]:https://www.xcitium.com/blog/news/why-is-google-pixel-not-global/ https://www.xcitium.com/blog/news/why-is-google-pixel-not-gl...
- backscratches 7mo ago
  graphene has said only flagships at first, but eventually they hope to end up on lower tier devices.
  - Imustaskforhelp 7mo ago
    Looks like I might have to wait for sometime then but still I am pretty excited about it yea!
wobfan 7mo ago
The biggest argument for me to buy one of these phones - when they actually arrive - next to running GrapheneOS, will be whether these phones, like all others, are way too big to use with only one hand. Like, I don't have a lot of requirements. Just make it run GrapheneOS and let it be >6 inches. I'll immediately buy it.
- pastrami_panda 7mo ago
  Larger than 6 inches, got it! Assuming you meant < 6 inches I'm all for it as well, it would be another incredible usp for these devices.
- strcat 7mo ago
  The initial supported devices will be flagships. They have regular, fold and flip variants of the flagships. The main advantage of flip phones is better one-handed use.
  - milkytron 7mo ago
    This is great to hear, I've been wanting a flip phone for a while. GrapheneOS on a Moto Razr would actually be incredible. Thank you for all of your hard work and being active in this thread. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a Motorola with GrapheneOS :)
huflungdung 7mo ago
[dead]
Jaykob1 7mo ago
Hello Moto!
fluffypony 7mo ago
I don't want to gush about this too much, but it's SUCH a big deal. Graphene has languished with hardware support for so long - they basically only had Pixel devices as first-class citizens, which are not bad devices per se, but it's hard when you're spending most of your time doing something without the manufacturer's support. There is a very real possibility that we end up with devices that can play modern mobile games at high frame rates on a secure, privacy-focused mobile OS, which is a huge step towards general adoption of something like this as a daily driver.
- monegator 7mo ago
  "general" people really play actual games on phones? I thought the general public at most played with time waster freemium games
  - archievillain 7mo ago
    I wouldn't consider gachas to be "actual games" (sue me), but yeah, they do tend to have way more complex gameplay and graphics than the timewaster freemium games of yore. Genshin Impact is essentially a single-player MMO, it has an open world and lots of characters and different weapons etc etc.
    - monegator 7mo ago
      still wouldn't bet the general phone audience find those games to be the the deciding factor in a phone
      - DrewADesign 7mo ago
        I think it would be on par with camera quality— really important to some, bot not a huge deal for most. Good enough quality screen for solid video media performance, generally, would be an absolute must I imagine.
      - applfanboysbgon 7mo ago
        The "general phone audience" is some 5 billion people. If even 10% of them want to play games, on what is in the current year likely to be their primary if not only computer, that's already a market segment of 500 million. It wouldn't honestly surprise me if the number is closer to 15 or 20%, mobile gaming is extremely popular.
goldenarm 7mo ago
Motorola reps reading this : I almost bought the Motorola Signature, but changed my mind after hearing of all the adware and crapware that you continuously install on your devices. If you want to invest into software, this should be #1 of your list.
toastal 7mo ago
Would be super dope if they brought back headphone jack Google teased Samsung over then a year later removed entirely. I haven’t even once considered GrapheneOS since I refuse to go without basic I/O.
thisislife2 7mo ago
This is great news - would love to run Sailfish OS on it. Wonder if it can dual boot?
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- strcat 7mo ago
  SailfishOS doesn't use the security features which are being worked on and doesn't keep up with kernel, driver and firmware updates. It doesn't use secure elements, verified boot or hardware memory tagging so it doesn't need the work being done on those things. They don't have similar requirements for hardware and have little use for what's being worked on for these devices. The portions of SailfishOS specific to it are largely closed source including the user interface and application layer. It isn't possible to fork the overall operating system. It has much worse privacy and drastically worse security than the Android Open Source Project even without taking the GrapheneOS improvements into account. It's in an entirely different space and this has no connection to it.
  - thisislife2 7mo ago
    True, for the most parts, and that's because they are resource constrained and Jolla is on the verge of bankruptcy. But all those features are not important to me. I care more about privacy (surveillance capitalism) than "security" (from state actors or malicious hackers). And seek diversity in software system by not supporting the duopoly of Android and ios, both from American BigTech. Sailfish OS ( https://sailfishos.org/ https://sailfishos.org/ ) meets those requirement better. If Graphene OS becomes popular, it is likely to be surreptitiously gobbled up by one of the BigTech, just like Microsoft's investment in Cyanogenmod ... moreover, with Google slowly making Android more and more proprietary, I personally don't see a good future for GrapheneOS, and bet on Sailfish OS outlasting it.
adriatp 7mo ago
Better marketing is impossible, Motorola has just positioned itself as a very strong buying option. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Fokamul 7mo ago
Does anyone know how many binary blobs chips in Motorola will have?
ForHackernews 7mo ago
I think this is great news, but I thought GrapheneOS considered unlocked bootloaders to be a terrible security risk? What's changed?
- backscratches 7mo ago
  Unlocked baotloaders are mandatory to install graphene, but so is the ability to re-lock the bootloader.
  - Aachen 7mo ago
    Not if it comes preinstalled though. Isn't that the point of the partnership?
    - petu 7mo ago
      Doesn't seem to be, announcement only talks about GrapheneOS compatibility.
- prmoustache 7mo ago
  You always have to temporarily unlock your bootloader to install graphene. The key point is being able to lock it again after installation.
- strcat 7mo ago
  It has always been a hardware requirement to be able to unlock the device, install GrapheneOS and lock the device again. Verified boot has been a requirement since it was introduced for Pixels and the is main benefit of locking the device. There are additional security features enabled by verified boot. The overall hardware requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices.
flawn 7mo ago
It would be amazing if GrapheneOS would distribute rooted versions of their OS with locked bootloader
- kevincox 7mo ago
  Yeah, I would install this in a heartbeat. I am very close to building myself but manually updating the phone every week or two is a big effort. I could use one of the third-party OTA builds but that is extending trust much more than I need to.
  - Aachen 7mo ago
    Is there an overview somewhere of stable third parties that do these builds? I might want to use one of them and didn't know this was a thing. Not having access to my own data is the only reason I haven't installed the OS yet
    - flawn 7mo ago
      The problem is that even if you build this yourself, and sign it with your keys, the signature of the builds will not lead to positive hardware attestation. This, as noted by @palata, is required for passing Play Integrity Checks, and in turn is the requirement for using banking, tap2pay & co. It's really a bummer that Google probably won't certify pre-rooted devices. It would obviously only do harm to them and not fit into the scheme of our big tech companies pushing anti-circumvention laws, but some high-spirited side inside of me still has hope.
      - Aachen 7mo ago
        I'm not using those. Would be cool if I could access my own data and lie to software vendors about that, but I'm not very interested in playing that game every time they release another update for the detector. I'd rather use free software and have a free device. The apps I use currently on Android have no problem with root
- Aachen 7mo ago
yc-kraln 7mo ago
Can't wait to see the Sailfish/Motorola crossover, honestly.
yason 7mo ago
GrapheneOS always strikes me as "perfect is the enemy of good". I don't necessarily need top-notch security features, I've been all right with all kinds of Android phones. The things I'd like are: - ability to sandbox Google Play and Google Apps so that they live in their nice little Google bubble and have no control over my phone overall - ability to run all applications sandboxed with fake permissions that I can whitelist for each application and without letting the app know it doesn't have the permissions it wants. Want location? Give the app a location point I've fixed for that app. (Or pass through real GPS location if I've chosen so.) Want contacts? Give the app empty contacts list. Or if I've allowed, give the app the contacts I've whitelisted. The Android/Google ecosystem is all right in itself, I just want to limit all of it inside a cage that I control. I want the exact same for my browser: I want webpages to run in a highly controlled sandbox with my choice of spoofed environment and permissions instead of assuming any power over my system. Or my Linux desktop where I firejail or sandbox certain proprietary apps outside of my distro's repositories.
- hypfer 7mo ago
  Sounds like you might not be the target audience of GrapheneOS then? That's fine. You don't have to be
- carpenecopinum 7mo ago
  I mean, GrapheneOS hits at least 2/3 of your demands pretty well. The Play services are "regular" apps with permissions that you can take away. For contacts and files you get "scopes", i.e. you decide what the app can see, while the app is left to believe that it can see everything there is. That said, I think the marketing of GrapheneOS could be better. Every introduction of GrapheneOS I've seen paints the image of Graphene being "Absolute security, no compromises", whereas in reality GrapheneOS is the most "Things need to work, no compromises. Then make the rest as safe as possible" custom ROM that I've used thus far (in particular regarding them allowing you to install Google Play, rather than using MicroG).
  - yason 7mo ago
    I would certainly be using GrapheneOS if only I could get one to run on something else than a Pixel. I have a perfectly good phone whose bootloader can be unlocked and I can install LineageOS or other AOSP installations there but all I'm aware of and I've researched come short on the sandboxing and permissions. I'd be willing to use GrapheneOS without support for specific security hardware (if only they supported that configuration) just for the features mentioned but Pixel phones are just too expensive. I've always been more than happy with a decent low-tier phone and I don't see a technical reason to change that. Nothing wrong with my phone.
broadsidepicnic 7mo ago
One of the greatest things I miss from Samsung after some time with GrapheneOS is the dex. The current provided desktop mode is rudimentary, and mostly working. But it has so much potential. We could have all in one device with us, and just plug that into an usb-c dock. Or watch things on big screens in hotels if a mouse emulation on touchscreen like samsung would be supported. Or, as Samsung already has created this, maybe that could be somehow ported to GrapheneOS via some 3rd party patcher? I'd really like to use samsung clock and gallery, as well, as those are quite a lot better than AOSP ones. I like GrapheneOS, and the promise of it. Just a few minor things and it would be awesome instead of really good.
- Aachen 7mo ago
  > The current provided desktop mode is rudimentary, and mostly working. But it has so much potential. We could have all in one device with us, and just plug that into an usb-c dock. An acquaintance at a local hackerspace has no laptop, just a Fairphone 5 and a device that looks like a laptop but is really just an external screen and keyboard. He connects his Ubuntu Touch phone and uses that as a laptop, developing software on it etc. It's not perfect as a phone (Android apps work rather well from what I've seen (I think the emulator is called Waydroid), but e.g. passing through Bluetooth is an issue so there are limitations) but maybe that's an interesting option for you as well
- repparw 7mo ago
  Motorola was the only one that had something similar AFAIK (Moto's Ready For) Though I'd expect that all efforts focus on the new Android Desktop Mode now, and then Samsung Dex turns into something akin to what OneUI does with Android, instead of being its own thing
kirito1337 7mo ago
I run a SM-A260F and a SM-T225N wdy think ?, theyre both unsupported even though they have great potential (the first one is very used in my country)
ptrl600 7mo ago
Looks like a shoo-in for my next phone!
jasonvorhe 7mo ago
Isn't this just basically what you get out of the box on GrapheneOS?
- palata 7mo ago
  Yeah I think the message is really "Motorola will meet the requirements of GrapheneOS in the future".
- reorder9695 7mo ago
  Don't underestimate the importance of a user not having to flash an OS. It being preinstalled unlocks a new segment of the market.
throwaway12pol 7mo ago
Thank god (or China) for not needing Google devices for Graphene in the future! Motorola devices are 10x more affordable in my country, as Pixel phones aren't even officially here and must be imported with high taxes, while Motorola has official stores and even builds phones locally!
haolez 7mo ago
If I buy a recent Motorola device, will it be possible to upgrade to Graphene in the future? I'm looking for a new device right now.
- gf000 7mo ago
  Unlikely. The reason graphene doesn't run ön non-pixels even today is that it depends on certain hardware features that most vendors (beside Google) lacks. I wouldn't think this applies to Motorola.
- miloignis 7mo ago
  No, the devices GrapheneOS supports won't be out until 2027 (and may only be the flagship models?)
Collectivism 7mo ago
please remake the motorola flipout, please remake the motorola flipout
emilfihlman 7mo ago
This is huge and amazing!
t0bia_s 7mo ago
Hopefully those Motorola devices will be smaller than Pixels.
- strcat 7mo ago
  The initial supported devices will be flagships. They have regular, fold and flip variants of the flagships. The main advantage of flip phones is better one-handed use.
butz 7mo ago
Will this help running Linux mobile OS'es on Motorola phones, like postmarketOS?
Frannky 7mo ago
Damn I would love to buy it. In the past I tried different mods trying to get rid of google, the problem was always the same, lot of little annoyances making it very painful for daily usage. A de Googled phone without annoyances and security would be very cool. Another interesting thing is that I haven't had any reason to buy a new phone in a very long time so we are probably in a time where the hardware is commodotized enough for motorola to be able to ship exactly what I need. Never thought I would have think of routing for Motorola in 2026 but you never know!
RGamma 7mo ago
> We'll likely be able to make hardened builds of firmware and drivers which can be released in an official way for easy builds without needing to extract anything from the GrapheneOS or Motorola OS factory images. That's great to see. I'm getting flashbacks of doing the "find the blobs" game years ago with LineageOS.
tonetegeatinst 7mo ago
I will be ordering one as soon as they release evenn if its a downgrade, because I want to see this succeed. I also am willing to suffer lower specs in short term if it benefits me in the long run.
distantranges 7mo ago
The only thing that keeps me from switching to GrapheneOS on my Pixel 10 pro is satellite SOS which isn't supported on GrapheneOS. It's something important to me as I do mountain sports and in some locations there is no network signal. I know that in the US Verizon and Tmobile customers have access to satellite connectivity and it's possible to get this feature working on a GrapheneOS phone if you are one of their customers, but I am in Europe and European providers don't provide satellite connectivity.
hn_acc1 7mo ago
There are a couple of apps I use that I kind of need: jb4 and Mando ECS (both for my car). Would be nice if they worked - anyone know? My S21 FE 5G is still fine (for now), going on 3 years. But I'm sure Samsung will cripple the battery life at some point..
Ms-J 7mo ago
While it's nice to have somewhat of a choice between terrible and bad, we need a Linux based OS that doesn't depend on Google at all. While I'm at it, I don't trust GrapheneOS. The devs injecting certain types of politics into the project. But it's better than both Apple and Google who both are known to spy and have tons of backdoors.
ysnp 7mo ago
Can anyone from Motorola confirm that the form submission and time delay requirements will be removed?
laalshaitaan 7mo ago
The enterprise angle makes more sense than consumer. Regulated industries and gov orgs need auditable device stacks, and Pixel being the only viable GrapheneOS hardware was always a fragile dependency for a security-first product. The real question is whether Motorola executes at the hardware partnership level or whether this is a marketing play. 2027 will be telling.
clot27 7mo ago
My next device is going to be moto if it fits in budget
alphanumeric0 7mo ago
That's great news. Do we have any idea if they'll have something ready before September?

1298 points by pabs3 7mo ago

Even though there doesn't seem to be huge mainstream consumer demand for this (although I actually question how well consumer demand for privacy and customization can ever be ascertained when the price signals are corrupted by a market where the winning players are essentially chosen by the state, as is arguably the case with both TSMC and Qualcomm), it still feels like the world simply couldn't go on with both iOS and Android become caged, cheapened, fragile shadows of the visions we once had for them (particularly AOSP).

dietr1ch 7mo ago
I think we can only expect the demand for privacy to grow into the future given that people tracking in a trenchcoat schemes are popping up everywhere through governmental and private efforts trying to gather data for ads and control.
windexh8er 7mo ago
Not to be flippant but who cares? People don't know there's an option. I've run Graphene for years and will gladly pay a premium for it. Beyond the bolstered security the battery life is exponentially better than a default Android device because of all the constant background traffic that Google doesn't allow any control over that you instantly have a choice with on GrapheneOS. And as soon as you start showing these things to people they do start to care and ask how. So the fact that the mainstream is ignorant and doesn't care enough yet doesn't matter because it's very likely a much larger segment of users will care when the tech evangelists they trust stop using IOS and Google Android. That's how these things started and that's how they could very well play out in this scenario as well.
- jMyles 7mo ago
  Yes, I agree in full. Did you think I was taking a position contrary to this one?
  - windexh8er 7mo ago
    My point was irrespective of your position: it doesn't matter. The mainstream won't break the Apple/Google cycle the same way the mainstream didn't break the lock carriers once had on software updates for phones. Apple broke that through its small but influential technologists and prosumers. Motorola can potentially be that for breaking out of the locks Apple and Google have bound through hardware manufacturers. The only reason AOSP can't exist without Google has nothing to do with Google, but more with Qualcomm. Motorola has the opportunity to broker that breakout. And we need this right now. Lawmakers and big tech are locking themselves in further, the longer we don't have another option the harder it will be to move outside of these greedy corporations.
dmix 7mo ago
Not all markets are trendy B2C stuff. The Motorola press release specifically mentioned B2B/corporate sales where security is important and there's plenty of government, journalist, non-profits/activists, etc usecases on top of the usual corporate locked-down environments like banking.

keerthiko 7mo ago

Does anyone know where I can read more about which devices will be supported? GrapheneOS website devices FAQ doesn't list any Motorola devices, and the press release doesn't have much either.

MYEUHD 7mo ago
Future Motorola devices (or maybe a subset of them?) will support GrapheneOS > We're collaborating on future devices https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116159602850585685 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116159602850585685
wolvoleo 7mo ago
There's no details yet, but I was reading it won't likely emerge until 2027 so ostensibly these will be models that are yet to be announced. Might even be models dedicated to grapheneos (and other open source roms as they mentioned here)
catlikesshrimp 7mo ago
This project is in hype stage. No work seems to have been done, yet. Samsung had something as ambitious years ago, but it went nowhere https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-promised-make-old-phones-useful-galaxy-upcycle/ https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-promised-make-old-pho... Stay tuned
vbezhenar 7mo ago
As I understand that situation, GrapheneOS developers are super picky about hardware they want to support. So out of all android phones they decided to support only Google Pixel because only these phones provide good enough hardware support for security features they want to provide. So likely no existing Motorola phones are good enough and only new ones, developed in collaboration with GrapheneOS developers, will be suitable.
BLKNSLVR 7mo ago
I'm pretty sure strcat was saying on a previous thread that it will only be future models, so nothing in their current line up in guaranteed to be compatible.

ChrisArchitect 7mo ago

Related: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47214645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47214645

lordofgibbons 7mo ago

Given that Google has said they'll be delaying source code release for Android to every X months intervals (iirc), how is GrapheneOS planning to handle security updates? Will they just be Google's binary blobs?

zeech 7mo ago
Graphene already uses binary blobs (though one can disable them if they want). Info at [0]. [0] https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/27068-grapheneos-security-preview-releases https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/27068-grapheneos-security-p...
- khimaros 7mo ago
  this isn't quite right. the blobs are produced by GrapheneOS and are reproducible once the source code embargo lifts.
  - zeech 7mo ago
    Whoops, nice catch - comment edited.
izacus 7mo ago
Motorola is a partner that has access to Android source sooner.
Aachen 7mo ago
Isn't that about feature releases? My understanding was that security patches are separate from this edit: looked up the announcement https://www.androidauthority.com/google-android-development-aosp-3538503/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-android-development-... but it doesn't even mention the word security. I don't know enough about the manufacturer side of things to say whether this means there's also no security updates while they work on new features

Zak 7mo ago

I'm glad to hear that. That means these devices will be a popular target, perhaps the popular target for alternative operating systems both Android-based and non-Android Linux.

boltzmann-brain 7mo ago
with the advent of AI assists, I can't wait for people to start hooking up SoCs, GPUs, and other components burdened by proprietary driver and firmware to logic analyzers, and letting AI have a crack at it. I wonder what'll happen - this might well be the end of proprietary blobs, and I'm here for it.
- p0w3n3d 7mo ago
  That would be wonderful but cracking proprietary blobs which may be and probably are encrypted, would take massive amount of time, and later rework could take a lot of tokens and broken SoCs. Nowadays electronics are driven by software so one bit off and voltage can get 9V instead of 3V for example
- mptest 7mo ago
  the end of proprietary blobs has to be the oddest set of words that excites me
- Imustaskforhelp 7mo ago
  Oh, This might be one of the few ideas I approve AI use of. Cursor spent like Million dollars on creating a browser which people were able to make later with a 200$/100$ subscription in the same amount of days as cursor with human assistance. I don't think that this can be "autonomous", we assumed that making browsers could be autonomous process but it wasn't. That was the take I took from it all. Will this be an example of autonomous tho? I think we still need a human experienced with reverse engineering in the loop but it might significantly improve their workflow I wish if cursor, instead of having burnt million $ to something worthless essentially, Could have atleast done this experiment.
yjftsjthsd-h 7mo ago

t1234s 7mo ago

With Motorola being owned by the Chinese company Lenovo can these new devices be used in secure environments? I remember when Lenovo took over making ThinkPads they were banned in some secure environments because of Lenovo links to CCP.

lacunary 7mo ago
what does "secure environment" mean?
- mattnewton 7mo ago
  Not OP but I guess it’s where the threat model includes worrying about the foreign government actors. Like US infrastructure, government contracting or some major tech companies.
zeech 7mo ago
Good point. It's a good thing that, say, Google is notoriously independent from the US government, and has never had any ties to it whatsoever.
- nitinreddy88 7mo ago
  You might want to add /s tag to it.
  - cwnyth 7mo ago
    This isn't Reddit.
    - fransje26 7mo ago
      No worries, the team Literal is alive and well on HN..
- ffsickempire 7mo ago
  [dead]

LoganDark 7mo ago

Do we know if there there be Widevine L1 keys that aren't deleted on unlock? (Certain phones restore access to L1 on bootloader relock, as long as AVB passes, including with custom keys.)

LelouBil 7mo ago

Well, I'll surely be buying a Motorola device when GrapheneOS support lands. I've been running on several half-working recent android ports to my Xiaomi Mi 9t for many years now. If I can get a modern phone, modern android, my privacy preserved and a hackable phone (to the extent an unlockable bootloader allows, which isn't a given nowadays, I especially hate how Xiaomi does it), I'm 100% sold. We'll see when it comes out I guess!

smashah 7mo ago

Whatever this device is is at the top of my list for my next phone.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

deleted 7mo ago
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yegle 7mo ago

I think Pixel phones are also unlockable/relockable?

H8crilA 7mo ago
This is how you can install GrapheneOS on these. Also, if you're wondering how does the security of something like this work: if you change the boot hash then the phone forgets all the hardware-stored secrets, for example the disk encryption keys.
dietr1ch 7mo ago
Samsung did restrict side-loading recently, - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47202808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47202808 I'm sure that Google will do something like that as soon as it faced the US's carrot and stick they signed-up for.
- jeroenhd 7mo ago
  That's not really sideloading, though. The stock recovery doesn't let you install apps or anything like that, it's meant for loading official versions of Samsung operating systems onto devices that got corrupted somehow. You can probably try to use the stock recovery to flash a custom ROM, but I doubt it'll work. Custom ROMs rely on tools like TWRP or LineageOS Recovery for a reason.

yooastan 7mo ago

A physical keyboard device with GrapheneOS would mog

mrbuttons454 7mo ago
Hopefully it gets a port to the Clicks Communicator. From what I understand the bootloader will be unlockable.
WithinReason 7mo ago
Just buy a keyboard case for it, no need for permanent attachment. Or carry a tiny bluetooth keyboard in your pocket: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0FWC8G2Q8/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0FWC8G2Q8/
- bitwize 7mo ago
  Ah, Doohoeek, a time-honored, trusted brand.
  - hn_acc1 7mo ago
    I'd rather buy from Doohickey.
backscratches 7mo ago
The future is now (or 2027)! 4" screen and hardware keyboard and graphene! https://www.clicks.tech/en/products/clicks-keyboard-for-motorola-razr-2025 https://www.clicks.tech/en/products/clicks-keyboard-for-moto... I cannot overstate my excitement.

mmh0000 7mo ago

If true. And I put a big if on that. I WILL be buying their flagship model. My go to for Graphene has been used Pixels from eBay. Because I can’t give money to Google in good conscience.

aussieguy1234 7mo ago
I too have been buying used Pixels, mostly for environmental reasons. But from a local shop phonebot. Got 3 phones from there, no issues at all.
- Barbing 7mo ago
  Buying used introduces such a big supply chain risk. I stay safe by buying direct and asking the NSA not to open the shipment in the order notes. (y’all know this one https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa... )
  - gf000 7mo ago
    What is the supposed threat model here? Mr. Rich Guy sells me his personal device he used in the previous year because he wants new shiny phone, but he may have the very slightest chance of being a super evil genius? The government selling tampered phones on ebay, when they could just.. go directly to vendors and put their backdoors directly into new phones/software? Sorry for the light snark, but this attack vector seems way too complicated for not much benefit. Unless you are some very VIP person being personally targeted.
    - Barbing 7mo ago
      Futility I suppose, joking around about how we can’t win :) b/c as seen in the link buying new isn’t perfect
  - aussieguy1234 7mo ago
    I put GrapheneOS on the phone myself. I wouldn't trust the OS shipped with a used phone. NSA could technically do this with a new phone also and probably has.

tamimio 7mo ago

This whole thing feels like a subversion, instead of having graphene independent from devices and widen the attack vector, now the spooks can just focus on the “supported official device” only. That being said, the hardware isn’t open source (cell modem is enough to expose you), some binary blobs for the firmware aren’t open source, motorola is a US company with all what that means, if you are after anonymity or even privacy, I would stay away from it entirely, you will be like a person putting a full mask on while on public, except that mask is scanning your face in real time. You will stand out like a sore thumb, your best strategy is blending in, so the automated systems scanners won’t flag you and thus put you under further monitoring. The timing is super weird too, when all corporations are pushing for digital ID, are actively lobbying to deanonymize the users, cooperating with gov too to have a smooth pipeline for such process, and motorola the known company of having defense contracts, are suddenly caring about open source privacy?! Cmon

scuff3d 7mo ago
Jesus Christ...
unethical_ban 7mo ago
Lots of speculation, correlation and not a lot of reasonable conclusions.
- tamimio 7mo ago
  The only speculation part is the timing, the rest are facts, only a naive will think a smart phone is ever private or anonymous. Your phone has a unique ID tied to the hardware that can ID you, your cell modem isn’t open source and is equipped with builtin high accuracy GNSS, plus other hardware and its non open drivers that can be exploited, among many attack vectors that are easily exploited on modern smartphones. This issue isn’t unique to phones too, many modern laptops are also part of it, TPM and plenty of hardware that aren’t really open, the only exception is a laptop can be used in an air gapped environment, not really the case with a smartphone, because assuming you managed to do so, it defeated its purpose to start with. The conclusion here is if you are after anonymity then you should ditch your phone entirely, having a “secure OS” won’t provide such goal but it might bring more attention to you than using of-the-shelf average phone.

rationalist 7mo ago

You know what would be good for security: Having physical disconnect switches (Bluetooth/Wifi, Modem, Power, Microphone/Speaker), and integrated lens cover like Lenovo laptops (at least for the front camera whereas a case can cover the rear cameras). On a side-note: Triple active SIM would be amazing, but one can dream. I would love to have a phone that has an active AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon SIM at the same time.

Scrounger 7mo ago
Google Fi will auto-switch between AT&T and T-Mobile but not Verizon, AFAIK.
- mjg59 7mo ago
  Fi launched with Sprint and T-Mobile roaming and added US Cellular, but is presently T-Mobile only. I don't think AT&T has ever been a supporter carrier.
adrianwaj 7mo ago
Also a disconnect switch for the telco signal. Yet in my experience, even when turned off, a phone may send out a signal periodically anyway for tracking / triangulation purposes. However to avoid that, removal of the battery is required. A disconnect switch for power would do the same? I think moving to micro-PCs is the answer, and then having an add-on to get a telco-signal. Why trust Motorola? Start at grass roots where possible. Everything needs to be open-source and based on open standards. No trojans, telemetry or remote overrides. Maybe the product is an adapter case for a Pi that adds a screen, battery, antenna and whatever else is required to make it a smartphone alternative? Also, looking forward to Mecha Comet.
- rationalist 7mo ago
  > switch for the telco signal Sorry, that's what I meant when I said Modem. > A disconnect switch for power would do the same? I would think so. I don't necessarily care about removable batteries because I use a portable power bank. Why carry an extra battery that only works for one device, when I can carry a "battery" that works for many devices?

m00dy 7mo ago

I think banking apps especially the ones in UK, won't work on this device.

domh 7mo ago
NatWest and Monzo work fine on my Pixel 9a running GrapheneOS. Community maintained list of supported banking apps here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/#united-kingdom https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... Google Wallet is not supported at all.
- m00dy 7mo ago
  with avbroot ?
  - domh 7mo ago
    I didn't have to do any resigning or repacking apks. It just worked installed from the play store.
- aembleton 7mo ago
  Curve works and you can set that up as a replacement for Google Pay.
Fokamul 7mo ago
Banking apps will be catastrophe in the future. Petition your bank, you want to use PC web app with certificate authentication. If they don't support it -> notify them and change bank. Enough people doing this, something will change.
- dns_snek 7mo ago
  Good luck with that. Of all the things people don't really care about, I think that might be at the far end of the list. Certification authentication is neat technology in principle, I use it internally, but in my experience anyone who recognizes it also hates it passionately. It's the thing that seemingly stops working every time their taxes are due, courtesy of terrible government software. If I started telling people that they should be demanding certificate authentication from their banks, they'd probably think that I escaped an asylum.

farkanoid 7mo ago

Not sure how I feel about this. Motorola seems to be the exclusive provider of encrypted cellular networks and associated devices to the Israeli military [1][2]. I'm under the impression that basebands still require a proprietary/binary blob, basically rendering the security features of the underlying Open Source OS useless, since it sits between the user and outside connectivity. How can GrapheneOS ensure that there are no hidden backdoors (ie: Pegasus-like spyware, which was created by ex-IDF soldiers via NSO Group), etc, in the baseband? [1] https://www.whoprofits.org/companies/company/3808 https://www.whoprofits.org/companies/company/3808 [2] https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/motorola-solutions-launches-innovation-center-in-israel.html#:~:text=Motorola%20Solutions%20in%20Israel,that%20arise%20from%20the%20field. https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/mo...

627467 7mo ago
Motorola Solutions != motorola mobility Ill leave you to investigate how != they are
- herewulf 7mo ago
  This. I know some people who work for the former and they are always having to say "no, I don't work for that Motorola". The shared name is entirely historic.
  - RajT88 7mo ago
    Mobility is in Merchandise Mart, Solutions is in Schaumburg. Used to be anyways. (My office was a floor below in the mart)
- farkanoid 7mo ago
  I did. There's long term patent cross-licensing agreements between the two companies. Motorola mobility may be a separate company now, but they didn't start from scratch.
  - 7mo ago

montroser 7mo ago

So, what is Motorola's incentive here? I love it, but why are they pursuing this? It's an enterprise / government play around auditable privacy and security?

debazel 7mo ago
My guess is that this is a great way for them to standout, fill a niche, and get tons of free advertisements in order to gain back some of their Android market share. Motorola has effectively lost in the Android market and are on downward spiral into irrelevance (already there?), so they have to do something different.
- Ugvx 7mo ago
  Add to that existing grapheneos users at best only care about good enough performance and a good camera, the selling feature is security and so a lot less overhead to market such a phone. Those who want the latest features will continue to buy pixels, Samsung, and iphones. The only thing I feel is missing from the picture at a quick glance is a tablet for the few who want a secure tablet device.
  - scblock 7mo ago
    "Those who want the latest features will continue to buy pixels" My friend the GrapheneOS supported devices list is nothing but pixels, including the very latest models. It'll be good to have more supported devices. https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices
atoav 7mo ago
Sell devices who want to get out of the grip of US software monopolies. This is not unpopular in the rest of the world.
stefanka 7mo ago
Digital sovereignty. Europe is a big market and Motorola could gain traction this way

sourcegrift 7mo ago

Why doesn't someone collaborate with pine64? Chasing after any flavour of android is going to be an exercise in masochism

NewJazz 7mo ago
Because, and I really mean no offense to them, their phones fucking suck. Like, dogshit slow hardware with terrible drivers and a modem that barely works with last gen tech. Their most advanced phone is based on a >10 year old SoC, that wasn't even that good when it was first released.
- gf000 7mo ago
  And even then they still don't live up to their promises, it is still not open hardware - there are a bunch of proprietary firmware, but especially silicon on these devices.
Ugvx 7mo ago
Grapheneos has well established its role in the android ecosystem. Having developed and upstreamed features that have as a whole, improved the security of android. Pine64 has targeted a very different market around extensibility and hacker/maker mindset. However while their phones have a lot of potential, security measures are half baked (microphone cutoff switch doesn't actually cut off the microphone), performance mediocre, and demand missing. While I love my pinephone pro, its not a dailiable device. A phone that cannot access common services like your bank account are non viable for 99% of users.
hsbauauvhabzb 7mo ago
Apps. Any phone without access to the Android or iOS ecosystem is doomed to fail. The only solution would be an emulation layer.
- mrbn100ful 7mo ago
  Like Waydroid or Appsupport (only on SailfishOS) :p

Synaesthesia 7mo ago

I wonder if I'm gonna be able to flash my existing Edge 70.

microtonal 7mo ago
Unlikely, current devices do not have the required security features. The plan to support some devices of the 2027 lineup.

notorandit 7mo ago

It depends, but it is promising. If devs can have access to all of the hardware and related documentation and source code, then this is to become very good news. PCs became popular and widespread because of that: openness.

alexander9866 7mo ago

Does this have more security, Please let me know share the details

jaypatelani 7mo ago

I hoped they would have gone with HMD or BlackBerry.

forkerenok 7mo ago
Why? Multiple times in the last 8 or so years I've considered both Nokia (HMD) and Motorola. Looking at reviews and specs I decided every time in favor of Motorola, despite liking the design of Nokia's more, and didn't regret it.
zikduruqe 7mo ago
I was secretly hoping Framework would have produced a phone that would collaborate with GrapheneOS. I know it is a stretch, but one can dream.
- actionfromafar 7mo ago
  I wish Framework would release one of its regular laptops, beefy battery and all, except it runs Android (on an ARM processor of course). I mean, they already have RISC-V. https://frame.work/se/en/products/deep-computing-risc-v-mainboard https://frame.work/se/en/products/deep-computing-risc-v-main...

sandreas 7mo ago

If anyone from Motorola is reading this: Please add a smaller device to your Portfolio, about max the size of a Pixel 8. I'm not hoping for an audio jack any more but at least small it could be. All in all: Thank you for making this possible.

throwaway81523 7mo ago
The whole Moto G series has audio jacks, at least as of a year or so ago. I hope that Graphene makes it to those affordable models. I don't need high end cameras or AI on my phone. In fact AI is quite unwanted.
- panny 7mo ago
  Lol, no, according to graphene, an aux jack is a security problem. So is a microsd. But the hole punch with the camera pointed at your face, that's just fine. When my current phone dies, I'm basically returning to a dumb phone with a removable battery. Now that Xperia dropped open source, every phone out there is terrible and I just don't want any of them. Anything that would support a ROM has features to make my skin crawl.
  - sheiyei 7mo ago
    It's a shame that modern banking (and communication with my family) needs a smartphone.
    - Aachen 7mo ago
      Does it? My banking works in any browser that supports javascript, and chatting has been possible on desktops (and laptops etc.) longer than it has on phones
  - throawayonthe 7mo ago
    why do you say "according to graphene?" have they said those things? or do you just mean the currently supported devices don't have these

Elfener 7mo ago

I would love to see devices with a non-destroyed (corners cut off, random hole for the front camera) screen.

dashzebra 7mo ago
I much prefer maximizing screen to body ratio, even if some sacrifices have to be made: rounded corners and punchhole cam. I'm also pretty sure rounded corners are stronger on impact.
Liftyee 7mo ago
You still get the same rectangular screen size for a given size of phone body, unless you want no front camera and sharp square corners. You still get an entire 16:9 screen area in the middle of a rounded corner screen, just with extra screen replacing the bezels on each end.
dminik 7mo ago
I'm fine with rounded corners. But I would also like a phone without a selfie camera. I just don't ever use it. If my phone can spy on me then that's the only use the front camera has ever had.
- krior 7mo ago
  just put a sticker on it
  - pschastain 7mo ago
    Still lost screen real estate

Imustaskforhelp 7mo ago

Is this feature gonna be on All phones including Low-end/mid-end (4-8Gb ram) and their flagship phones? It's gonna be huge if that's the case because Pixel's here are expensive, their second hand prices are in "non-global" countries[0] and you have to pay a premium. Also I live in world's largest second-hand phone market and it can have its worries as well. You can't say to anyone who wants privacy, oh just buy a second-hand pixel. It's just not that easy. But if Motorola can launch multiple phones and there are always gonna be some deals one way or another (with cards) and as motorola phones are pretty competitive in price, Finally we can have phones worldwide where privacy isn't charged extra. I have spent some hours looking at online second hand phone stores to find but due to its somewhat rarity, I always feel like being frugal, I am just paying extra for privacy and so I am really happy with decision from motorola using their supply chain of phones and partnering up with Graphene. I was gonna buy a phone for myself, I was thinking a second hand pixel phone but given the things I said earlier at this point, I might as well wait for a few more months to get the moto phone. I just hope that they launch an affordable phone with grapheneos. I really don't care about specs as I have been able to live my life with 7 year old motorola phones too in 2026 for sometime. I will definitely recommend my family Motorola phones in the future and slowly convert everyone to motorola if motorola releases an affordable phone with actual privacy. [0]:https://www.xcitium.com/blog/news/why-is-google-pixel-not-global/ https://www.xcitium.com/blog/news/why-is-google-pixel-not-gl...

backscratches 7mo ago
graphene has said only flagships at first, but eventually they hope to end up on lower tier devices.
- Imustaskforhelp 7mo ago
  Looks like I might have to wait for sometime then but still I am pretty excited about it yea!

wobfan 7mo ago

The biggest argument for me to buy one of these phones - when they actually arrive - next to running GrapheneOS, will be whether these phones, like all others, are way too big to use with only one hand. Like, I don't have a lot of requirements. Just make it run GrapheneOS and let it be >6 inches. I'll immediately buy it.

pastrami_panda 7mo ago
Larger than 6 inches, got it! Assuming you meant < 6 inches I'm all for it as well, it would be another incredible usp for these devices.
strcat 7mo ago
The initial supported devices will be flagships. They have regular, fold and flip variants of the flagships. The main advantage of flip phones is better one-handed use.
- milkytron 7mo ago
  This is great to hear, I've been wanting a flip phone for a while. GrapheneOS on a Moto Razr would actually be incredible. Thank you for all of your hard work and being active in this thread. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a Motorola with GrapheneOS :)

huflungdung 7mo ago

[dead]

Jaykob1 7mo ago

Hello Moto!

fluffypony 7mo ago

I don't want to gush about this too much, but it's SUCH a big deal. Graphene has languished with hardware support for so long - they basically only had Pixel devices as first-class citizens, which are not bad devices per se, but it's hard when you're spending most of your time doing something without the manufacturer's support. There is a very real possibility that we end up with devices that can play modern mobile games at high frame rates on a secure, privacy-focused mobile OS, which is a huge step towards general adoption of something like this as a daily driver.

monegator 7mo ago
"general" people really play actual games on phones? I thought the general public at most played with time waster freemium games
- archievillain 7mo ago
  I wouldn't consider gachas to be "actual games" (sue me), but yeah, they do tend to have way more complex gameplay and graphics than the timewaster freemium games of yore. Genshin Impact is essentially a single-player MMO, it has an open world and lots of characters and different weapons etc etc.
  - monegator 7mo ago
    still wouldn't bet the general phone audience find those games to be the the deciding factor in a phone
    - DrewADesign 7mo ago
      I think it would be on par with camera quality— really important to some, bot not a huge deal for most. Good enough quality screen for solid video media performance, generally, would be an absolute must I imagine.
    - applfanboysbgon 7mo ago
      The "general phone audience" is some 5 billion people. If even 10% of them want to play games, on what is in the current year likely to be their primary if not only computer, that's already a market segment of 500 million. It wouldn't honestly surprise me if the number is closer to 15 or 20%, mobile gaming is extremely popular.

goldenarm 7mo ago

Motorola reps reading this : I almost bought the Motorola Signature, but changed my mind after hearing of all the adware and crapware that you continuously install on your devices. If you want to invest into software, this should be #1 of your list.

toastal 7mo ago

Would be super dope if they brought back headphone jack Google teased Samsung over then a year later removed entirely. I haven’t even once considered GrapheneOS since I refuse to go without basic I/O.

thisislife2 7mo ago

This is great news - would love to run Sailfish OS on it. Wonder if it can dual boot?

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
strcat 7mo ago
SailfishOS doesn't use the security features which are being worked on and doesn't keep up with kernel, driver and firmware updates. It doesn't use secure elements, verified boot or hardware memory tagging so it doesn't need the work being done on those things. They don't have similar requirements for hardware and have little use for what's being worked on for these devices. The portions of SailfishOS specific to it are largely closed source including the user interface and application layer. It isn't possible to fork the overall operating system. It has much worse privacy and drastically worse security than the Android Open Source Project even without taking the GrapheneOS improvements into account. It's in an entirely different space and this has no connection to it.
- thisislife2 7mo ago
  True, for the most parts, and that's because they are resource constrained and Jolla is on the verge of bankruptcy. But all those features are not important to me. I care more about privacy (surveillance capitalism) than "security" (from state actors or malicious hackers). And seek diversity in software system by not supporting the duopoly of Android and ios, both from American BigTech. Sailfish OS ( https://sailfishos.org/ https://sailfishos.org/ ) meets those requirement better. If Graphene OS becomes popular, it is likely to be surreptitiously gobbled up by one of the BigTech, just like Microsoft's investment in Cyanogenmod ... moreover, with Google slowly making Android more and more proprietary, I personally don't see a good future for GrapheneOS, and bet on Sailfish OS outlasting it.

adriatp 7mo ago

Better marketing is impossible, Motorola has just positioned itself as a very strong buying option. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Fokamul 7mo ago

Does anyone know how many binary blobs chips in Motorola will have?

ForHackernews 7mo ago

I think this is great news, but I thought GrapheneOS considered unlocked bootloaders to be a terrible security risk? What's changed?

backscratches 7mo ago
Unlocked baotloaders are mandatory to install graphene, but so is the ability to re-lock the bootloader.
- Aachen 7mo ago
  Not if it comes preinstalled though. Isn't that the point of the partnership?
  - petu 7mo ago
    Doesn't seem to be, announcement only talks about GrapheneOS compatibility.
prmoustache 7mo ago
You always have to temporarily unlock your bootloader to install graphene. The key point is being able to lock it again after installation.
strcat 7mo ago
It has always been a hardware requirement to be able to unlock the device, install GrapheneOS and lock the device again. Verified boot has been a requirement since it was introduced for Pixels and the is main benefit of locking the device. There are additional security features enabled by verified boot. The overall hardware requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices.

flawn 7mo ago

It would be amazing if GrapheneOS would distribute rooted versions of their OS with locked bootloader

kevincox 7mo ago
Yeah, I would install this in a heartbeat. I am very close to building myself but manually updating the phone every week or two is a big effort. I could use one of the third-party OTA builds but that is extending trust much more than I need to.
- Aachen 7mo ago
  Is there an overview somewhere of stable third parties that do these builds? I might want to use one of them and didn't know this was a thing. Not having access to my own data is the only reason I haven't installed the OS yet
  - flawn 7mo ago
    The problem is that even if you build this yourself, and sign it with your keys, the signature of the builds will not lead to positive hardware attestation. This, as noted by @palata, is required for passing Play Integrity Checks, and in turn is the requirement for using banking, tap2pay & co. It's really a bummer that Google probably won't certify pre-rooted devices. It would obviously only do harm to them and not fit into the scheme of our big tech companies pushing anti-circumvention laws, but some high-spirited side inside of me still has hope.
    - Aachen 7mo ago
      I'm not using those. Would be cool if I could access my own data and lie to software vendors about that, but I'm not very interested in playing that game every time they release another update for the detector. I'd rather use free software and have a free device. The apps I use currently on Android have no problem with root
Aachen 7mo ago

yc-kraln 7mo ago

Can't wait to see the Sailfish/Motorola crossover, honestly.

yason 7mo ago

GrapheneOS always strikes me as "perfect is the enemy of good". I don't necessarily need top-notch security features, I've been all right with all kinds of Android phones. The things I'd like are: - ability to sandbox Google Play and Google Apps so that they live in their nice little Google bubble and have no control over my phone overall - ability to run all applications sandboxed with fake permissions that I can whitelist for each application and without letting the app know it doesn't have the permissions it wants. Want location? Give the app a location point I've fixed for that app. (Or pass through real GPS location if I've chosen so.) Want contacts? Give the app empty contacts list. Or if I've allowed, give the app the contacts I've whitelisted. The Android/Google ecosystem is all right in itself, I just want to limit all of it inside a cage that I control. I want the exact same for my browser: I want webpages to run in a highly controlled sandbox with my choice of spoofed environment and permissions instead of assuming any power over my system. Or my Linux desktop where I firejail or sandbox certain proprietary apps outside of my distro's repositories.

hypfer 7mo ago
Sounds like you might not be the target audience of GrapheneOS then? That's fine. You don't have to be
carpenecopinum 7mo ago
I mean, GrapheneOS hits at least 2/3 of your demands pretty well. The Play services are "regular" apps with permissions that you can take away. For contacts and files you get "scopes", i.e. you decide what the app can see, while the app is left to believe that it can see everything there is. That said, I think the marketing of GrapheneOS could be better. Every introduction of GrapheneOS I've seen paints the image of Graphene being "Absolute security, no compromises", whereas in reality GrapheneOS is the most "Things need to work, no compromises. Then make the rest as safe as possible" custom ROM that I've used thus far (in particular regarding them allowing you to install Google Play, rather than using MicroG).
- yason 7mo ago
  I would certainly be using GrapheneOS if only I could get one to run on something else than a Pixel. I have a perfectly good phone whose bootloader can be unlocked and I can install LineageOS or other AOSP installations there but all I'm aware of and I've researched come short on the sandboxing and permissions. I'd be willing to use GrapheneOS without support for specific security hardware (if only they supported that configuration) just for the features mentioned but Pixel phones are just too expensive. I've always been more than happy with a decent low-tier phone and I don't see a technical reason to change that. Nothing wrong with my phone.

broadsidepicnic 7mo ago

One of the greatest things I miss from Samsung after some time with GrapheneOS is the dex. The current provided desktop mode is rudimentary, and mostly working. But it has so much potential. We could have all in one device with us, and just plug that into an usb-c dock. Or watch things on big screens in hotels if a mouse emulation on touchscreen like samsung would be supported. Or, as Samsung already has created this, maybe that could be somehow ported to GrapheneOS via some 3rd party patcher? I'd really like to use samsung clock and gallery, as well, as those are quite a lot better than AOSP ones. I like GrapheneOS, and the promise of it. Just a few minor things and it would be awesome instead of really good.

Aachen 7mo ago
> The current provided desktop mode is rudimentary, and mostly working. But it has so much potential. We could have all in one device with us, and just plug that into an usb-c dock. An acquaintance at a local hackerspace has no laptop, just a Fairphone 5 and a device that looks like a laptop but is really just an external screen and keyboard. He connects his Ubuntu Touch phone and uses that as a laptop, developing software on it etc. It's not perfect as a phone (Android apps work rather well from what I've seen (I think the emulator is called Waydroid), but e.g. passing through Bluetooth is an issue so there are limitations) but maybe that's an interesting option for you as well
repparw 7mo ago
Motorola was the only one that had something similar AFAIK (Moto's Ready For) Though I'd expect that all efforts focus on the new Android Desktop Mode now, and then Samsung Dex turns into something akin to what OneUI does with Android, instead of being its own thing

kirito1337 7mo ago

I run a SM-A260F and a SM-T225N wdy think ?, theyre both unsupported even though they have great potential (the first one is very used in my country)

ptrl600 7mo ago

Looks like a shoo-in for my next phone!

jasonvorhe 7mo ago

Isn't this just basically what you get out of the box on GrapheneOS?

palata 7mo ago
Yeah I think the message is really "Motorola will meet the requirements of GrapheneOS in the future".
reorder9695 7mo ago
Don't underestimate the importance of a user not having to flash an OS. It being preinstalled unlocks a new segment of the market.

throwaway12pol 7mo ago

Thank god (or China) for not needing Google devices for Graphene in the future! Motorola devices are 10x more affordable in my country, as Pixel phones aren't even officially here and must be imported with high taxes, while Motorola has official stores and even builds phones locally!

haolez 7mo ago

If I buy a recent Motorola device, will it be possible to upgrade to Graphene in the future? I'm looking for a new device right now.

gf000 7mo ago
Unlikely. The reason graphene doesn't run ön non-pixels even today is that it depends on certain hardware features that most vendors (beside Google) lacks. I wouldn't think this applies to Motorola.
miloignis 7mo ago
No, the devices GrapheneOS supports won't be out until 2027 (and may only be the flagship models?)

Collectivism 7mo ago

please remake the motorola flipout, please remake the motorola flipout

emilfihlman 7mo ago

This is huge and amazing!

t0bia_s 7mo ago

Hopefully those Motorola devices will be smaller than Pixels.

strcat 7mo ago
The initial supported devices will be flagships. They have regular, fold and flip variants of the flagships. The main advantage of flip phones is better one-handed use.

butz 7mo ago

Will this help running Linux mobile OS'es on Motorola phones, like postmarketOS?

Frannky 7mo ago

Damn I would love to buy it. In the past I tried different mods trying to get rid of google, the problem was always the same, lot of little annoyances making it very painful for daily usage. A de Googled phone without annoyances and security would be very cool. Another interesting thing is that I haven't had any reason to buy a new phone in a very long time so we are probably in a time where the hardware is commodotized enough for motorola to be able to ship exactly what I need. Never thought I would have think of routing for Motorola in 2026 but you never know!

RGamma 7mo ago

> We'll likely be able to make hardened builds of firmware and drivers which can be released in an official way for easy builds without needing to extract anything from the GrapheneOS or Motorola OS factory images. That's great to see. I'm getting flashbacks of doing the "find the blobs" game years ago with LineageOS.

tonetegeatinst 7mo ago

I will be ordering one as soon as they release evenn if its a downgrade, because I want to see this succeed. I also am willing to suffer lower specs in short term if it benefits me in the long run.

distantranges 7mo ago

The only thing that keeps me from switching to GrapheneOS on my Pixel 10 pro is satellite SOS which isn't supported on GrapheneOS. It's something important to me as I do mountain sports and in some locations there is no network signal. I know that in the US Verizon and Tmobile customers have access to satellite connectivity and it's possible to get this feature working on a GrapheneOS phone if you are one of their customers, but I am in Europe and European providers don't provide satellite connectivity.

hn_acc1 7mo ago

There are a couple of apps I use that I kind of need: jb4 and Mando ECS (both for my car). Would be nice if they worked - anyone know? My S21 FE 5G is still fine (for now), going on 3 years. But I'm sure Samsung will cripple the battery life at some point..

Ms-J 7mo ago

While it's nice to have somewhat of a choice between terrible and bad, we need a Linux based OS that doesn't depend on Google at all. While I'm at it, I don't trust GrapheneOS. The devs injecting certain types of politics into the project. But it's better than both Apple and Google who both are known to spy and have tons of backdoors.

ysnp 7mo ago

Can anyone from Motorola confirm that the form submission and time delay requirements will be removed?

laalshaitaan 7mo ago

The enterprise angle makes more sense than consumer. Regulated industries and gov orgs need auditable device stacks, and Pixel being the only viable GrapheneOS hardware was always a fragile dependency for a security-first product. The real question is whether Motorola executes at the hardware partnership level or whether this is a marketing play. 2027 will be telling.

clot27 7mo ago

My next device is going to be moto if it fits in budget

alphanumeric0 7mo ago

That's great news. Do we have any idea if they'll have something ready before September?