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WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system
- j3th9n 8mo agoWho cares, we have nothing to hide.
- gpmcadam 8mo agoYou'd have been mocked as a tinfoil hat wearer for saying this more than 18 months ago
- firecall 8mo agoThis reads like proper science fiction tech!
- mgh2 8mo agoNot surprised, related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46920315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46920315
- gnarlouse 8mo agoSo, should I start walking around with a jammer or something?
- cj 8mo agoWhat about rotating MAC address?
- NetMageSCW 8mo agoThis has nothing to do with MAC addresses.
- Ancapistani 8mo agoNot directly, but presumably any device you have on you would be important for associating a profile with an individual.
- tosti 8mo agoWait a minute while I don my tin-foil pants.
- palmotea 8mo ago> The method takes advantage of normal network communication between connected devices and the router. These devices regularly send feedback signals within the network, known as beamforming feedback information (BFI), which are transmitted without encryption and can be read by anyone within range. > By collecting this data, images of people can be generated from multiple perspectives, allowing individuals to be identified. Once the machine learning model has been trained, the identification process takes only a few seconds. > In a study with 197 participants, the team could infer the identity of persons with almost 100% accuracy – independently of the perspective or their gait. So what's the resolution of these images, and what's visible/invisible to them? Does it pick up your clothes? Your flesh? Or mosty your bones?
- brk 8mo agoResolution and positional accuracy are very poor. It’s more like ‘an approximate bag of water detector’. Gait analysis is complete fiction. Especially with a non-visual approach like this.
- throwway120385 8mo agoIf you can do that you can infer when someone is home or away.
- oasisbob 8mo agoGiven the number of gait analysis publications over several decades using varying techniques, can you recommend a good review article disproving all of them?
- brk 8mo agoI don’t think anyone has ever tried to publish something disproving all of the gait analysis claims. That would be an odd sort of thing. But I have not seen anything come to something that we could call productized and reliable. It’s relatively easy to publish theoretical papers. Much harder to show it working reliably in the wild.
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- october8140 8mo agoCan we make WiFi 2 that doesn’t let people do this?
- throwway120385 8mo agoMicrowave frequencies like 2.4 or 5 GHz just passively allow you to do this. You'd have to adopt frequencies that are useless for radar. I mean you could even jam a microwave oven door open, turn it on, and then measure how much energy loss there was through certain paths. That's essentially all beamforming in Wifi requires -- a really sophisticated way of measuring paths that cause energy loss, and a really sophisticated antenna design that allows you to direct the signal through paths that don't cause energy loss. The first problem is what's facilitating surveillance because humans cause signal loss because our bodies are mostly water, and 2.4 GHz radio waves happen to get absorbed really well by water. This causes measurable signal loss on those paths and the beamforming antennae use that information to route around your body. But they could also just log that information and know where you are relative to the WAP.
- boring-human 8mo agoCould this be countered by wearing wire-mesh patch clothing, perhaps in randomized stylish arrangements?
- 9991 8mo agoNo! That would make you stand out with the fiery intensity of a sun.
- nativeit 8mo agoHow about personal canisters of chaff that get fired off whenever I enter a room? Before long, folks will get so annoyed with all of the metal fibers I leave behind, that I simply won’t be invited anywhere and my anonymity will have been protected.
- 1e1a 8mo agoIf the metal bits are floppy enough it should add quite a bit of noise
- wmeredith 8mo agoProbably. If you look at the paper they wouldn't let their participants wear loose or baggy clothing.
- AndrewKemendo 8mo ago“Could become” Already is and widely used for exactly what the article worries about
- srcreigh 8mo agoSource?
- bnjms 8mo agoCan you say what products make use of this technique? i.e. is it well known like Juniper Mist or not publicly available?
- mahrain 8mo agoVerizon has a security feature built around this, https://www.xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wifi-motion https://www.xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wifi-motion Philips WiZ bulbs: https://www.wizconnected.com/en-us/explore-wiz/spacesense https://www.wizconnected.com/en-us/explore-wiz/spacesense Alarm.com also supports such sensors: https://poweredbyalarm.com/eventresources/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2024/10/Nami_Product_Summary_v5.pdf https://poweredbyalarm.com/eventresources/wp-content/uploads...
- pimterry 8mo agoThere's a big difference between 'presence detection' and 'tracking individuals'. Both in terms of tech and privacy impact.
- AndrewKemendo 8mo agoYeah Verizon never gives data to the government
- NetMageSCW 8mo agoNot even close. Now I feel like I need to make an X account that just posts headlines after s/could/will never/.
- jbotz 8mo agoPaper: https://dl.acm.org/doi/epdf/10.1145/3719027.3765062 https://dl.acm.org/doi/epdf/10.1145/3719027.3765062
- avidiax 8mo agoI don't feel that this article is a fair summary of the paper. And the title is just clickbait. The paper says, in a somewhat contrived scenario, with dozens of labelled walkthroughs per person, they can identify that person from their gait based on CSI and other WiFi information. This is a long way from identifying one person in thousands or tens of thousands, being able to transfer identifying patterns among stations (the inference model is not usable with any other setup), etc. All the talk of "images" and "perspectives" is journalistic fluffery. 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz wavelengths (12cm & 6cm) are too long to make anything a layperson call an "image" of a person. What creepy thing could you actually do with this? Well, your neighbor could probably record this information and tell how many and which people are in your home, assuming that there is enough walking to do a gait analysis. They might be able to say with some certainty if someone new comes home. That same neighbor could hide a camera and photograph your door, or sniff your WiFi and see what devices are active or run an IMSI catcher and surveil the entire neighborhood or join a corporate surveillance outfit like Ring. Using the CSI on your WiFi and a trained ML model is mostly cryptonerd imaginiation.
- fragmede 8mo agoIt feels rather more than a little bit creepy to realize that Comcast et al, and thus the US government (if you live there), laundered through 3rd party data brokers, knows if you're sleeping and knows if you're awake. Knows if you've been bad or good, for ICE/ATF/DEA/SEC's sake.
- avidiax 8mo agoComcast is late to the party, then. AT&T has been selling your information for decades. And your mobile provider can track you anyplace that there's a cell-signal, potentially even outside the country.
- elias_t 8mo ago> In a study with 197 participants, the team could infer the identity of persons with almost 100% accuracy That a super impressive! I wonder how that would be at scale, with a few millions people. I’m don’t think that would remain as accurate
- srcreigh 8mo agoVarious cheating to get their conclusions (from the paper): > To allow for an unobstructed gait recording, participants were instructed not to wear any baggy clothes, skirts, dresses or heeled shoes. > Due to technical unreliabiltities, not all recordings resulted in usable data. For our experiments, we use 170 and 161 participants for CSI and BFI, respectively. [out of 197] I wish they had explained what the technical unreliabilities were.
- alexpotato 8mo agoNot sure how many people are aware that the newer Alexa devices have "presence detection" that uses ultrasound so they can detect when people are nearby. [0] Heck, even Ecobee remote temperature sensors can do this. Reminds me of the story about how the Google Nest smoke detector had a microphone in it. [1] 0 - https://www.amazon.com/b?node=23435461011&tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=661712030114&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10360813209422837828&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003605&hvtargid=kwd-1546958575595&ref=pd_sl_593al4h2yl_e https://www.amazon.com/b?node=23435461011&tag=googhydr-20&hv... 1- https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/asmusq/google_says_the_builtin_microphone_it_never_told/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/asmusq/google_says...
- joe_mamba 8mo ago>newer Alexa devices have "presence detection" Not even the biggest privacy issue of using Alexa devices. I think listening you 24/7 is a bigger potential issue. Not sure if Alexa has this, but cheap mm-wave wideband multi-GHz sensors(or radars more accurately) now enable more finely grained human presence detection and also human fall detection[1] with the right algos, so you can for example detect if grandma in the nursing home fell down and didn't get back up, but in a privacy focused way that doesn't resort to microphones or cameras. Neat. >Reminds me of the story about how the Google Nest smoke detector had a microphone in it. Vapes have microphone arrays in them to detect when you're sucking and light up the heating element. Cheap electronics have enabled a new world of crazy. [1] https://www.seeedstudio.com/MR60FDA2-60GHz-mmWave-Sensor-Fall-Detection-Module-p-5946.html https://www.seeedstudio.com/MR60FDA2-60GHz-mmWave-Sensor-Fal...
- gjs278 8mo ago[dead]
- amelius 8mo agoEvery capacitor can be a potential microphone ...
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- cauenapier 8mo agoPerhaps we should ask be using aluminium foil hat now
- sponaugle 8mo agoThis is a VERY controlled environment - and they used 20 passes of each person walking with direct knowledge of each person to train for identity. They did no tests with multiple people walking at the same time, or with any other external moving distortion effects (doors opening, etc) . This is very far from actual 'identification' of people in real public settings - and no doubt the cell phone everyone is carrying with them offers many orders of magnitude better opportunity. In a real crowded environment this would be nearly worthless. The devices that reported BFI information were also stationary, and there were no extra devices transmitting information that would be conflicting. A single camera would be much more effective.
- wcunning 8mo agoThis is going into the next Wifi standard specifically to get this data off of normal wifi traffic.
- mahrain 8mo agoYes, you won't be able to do this on normal wifi traffic typically either, you need to send specific packets at a high enough rate (in between normal internet traffic) in order to sense with any accuracy, as I also remarked earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46976849 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46976849
- sponaugle 8mo agoYea, that makes sense as you would need quite a bit of information across a reasonable temporal range if the identifying qualities are movement related. Very interesting.
- dylan604 8mo agoThere'll be an update where a first responder can send a special packet to an SSID that will enable these high rate packets without needing to join the wifi. It'll be secure where only the good guys will know about it so that it won't be able to be used nefariously. /s
- vasco 8mo ago
- bitbytebane 8mo ago[dead]
- josefritzishere 8mo agoThere is no could. This is a turnkey function for any modern managed wifi system right now.
- NetMageSCW 8mo agoTo detect and track people? As someone who manages a modern wifi system, I have doubts. This isn’t a could, this is a never.
- TimTheTinker 8mo agoI don't see how this is categorically any different from hidden networked cameras. Perhaps that's the real issue we should be focusing on in terms of privacy and mass surveillance.
- bethekidyouwant 8mo agoI’m not understanding this. You still have to deploy a piece of hardware to read the Wi-Fi waves. Why wouldn’t you just deploy some other piece of hardware that’s better at surveilling the surroundings?
- bethekidyouwant 8mo agoI’m not understanding this. You still have to deploy a piece of hardware to read the Wi-Fi waves. Why wouldn’t you just deploy some other piece of hardware that’s better at surveilling the surroundings? Also, if the Wi-Fi device is in the area are not busy now your camera is off that doesn’t seem good
- misiek08 8mo agoScary title, 3 month late into the party… really we don’t deserve better articles with non-dramatic content, much faster?
- bethekidyouwant 8mo agoI’m not understanding this. You still have to deploy a piece of hardware to read the Wi-Fi waves. Why wouldn’t you just deploy some other piece of hardware that’s better at surveilling the surroundings? Also, if the Wi-Fi device is in the area are not busy now your camera is off that doesn’t seem good. Also, I imagine you have to tune it for every environment, geometry that doesn’t sound easy.
- ibejoeb 8mo agoReminds me of the xfinity in-home wifi motion detection, discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44426726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44426726
- bethekidyouwant 8mo agoI’m not understanding this. You still have to deploy a piece of hardware to read the Wi-Fi waves. Why wouldn’t you just deploy some other piece of hardware that’s better at surveilling the surroundings? Also, if the Wi-Fi device is in the area are not busy now your camera is off that doesn’t seem good. Also, I imagine you have to tune it for every environment, geometry that doesn’t sound easy. And then after all that work, I move my Wi-Fi router 4 inches to the left.
- NetMageSCW 8mo agoBecause a device to receive WiFi signals could be hidden behind a wall outlet with no sign that it is installed?
- bethekidyouwant 8mo agoThere’s already specialized systems. They use uwb radar and do a much better job.
- barrystaes 8mo agoAndroid devices already know exactly where they are even with GPS disabled, because they sniff the nearby WIFI networks and then ask Google where they are. QED Google knows already, all combined is mass metadata surveillance already provided to those that tap into it. Any sub-meter precision or presence detection does not really matter, if these companies have all your other questions, queries, messages, calendars, browse history, app usage, and streaming behaviour as well.
- oasisbob 8mo agoThe approach described in the article is much different and more interesting, as it's passive and doesn't require any electronics on the individual being identified.
- kccqzy 8mo agoFirst this is not just Android. Apple does the same thing. You can buy an iPad which physically does not have any GPS hardware and it can reasonably tell you where you are. Personally I first learned of this feature when I bought a second-generation iPad, so it’s been there a while ago. Second, it is a logical leap to assume Google knows everything already. They could for example build this nearby Wi-Fi based location querying API with privacy in mind, by purposefully making it anonymous without associating it with your account, going through relays (such as Oblivious HTTP), use various private set intersection techniques instead. It is tired and lazy to argue that just because some Big Tech has the capability of doing something bad therefore they must already be doing it.
- palata 8mo ago> Second, it is a logical leap to assume Google knows everything already. They could for example build this nearby Wi-Fi based location querying API with privacy in mind In which world are you living? > It is tired and lazy to argue that just because some Big Tech has the capability of doing something bad therefore they must already be doing it. It has the capability of doing something bad, and it has a history of doing it. Better not forget the last part.
- dpc050505 8mo agoCameras just use light waves and are already a mass surveillance system.
- blacksmith_tb 8mo agoYou can do it to yourself[1], I am using Tommy for presence detection in Home Assistant, works great (my house is small, so two ESP32s works fine, I am sure having 3-4 would let it see my cat breathing). 1: https://www.tommysense.com/ https://www.tommysense.com/
- kittikitti 8mo agoBeamforming information is utilized for creating this surveillance. There are also a lack of configurations in common routers to turn off BFI. The BFI information is available to any WiFi snooping and can easily be used to detect presence. You just need to read the BFI data (its plaintext) and if it changes, you can track wherever the smartphone the beam is now pointing towards. Detecting exactly who is another feature but in general, WiFi technologies are insecure and easily available as surveillance devices.
- rubatuga 8mo agoI was really impressed that a ESP32 Antenna Array Can essentially make a WiFi camera - it uses both time and phase differences to localize based on MAC addresses (which are sent plaintext) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXwDrcd1t-E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXwDrcd1t-E
- slicktux 8mo agoYes, that’s a noteworthy project that has some good use cases!
- puppycodes 8mo agoThere are much better invisible mass surveillance devices like the one you carry around in your pocket every day.
- downboots 8mo agoElevator pitch: ankle monitor phone case
- thedangler 8mo agoHow good is ethernet over electrical sockets these days. I had one about 15 years ago maybe, but it wasn't that good. Has tech changed. I'd use it over my wifi setup if its was fast.
- TheSkyHasEyes 8mo agoThis tech is known as BPL(broadband over powerline) if you want to look further into it.
- ddtaylor 8mo agoI used the regular home power stuff many years ago and the speeds were pretty bad and the network loss was unreliable. My understanding is that it has improved in some circumstances, but if the connection ends up "hopping" through your breaker you get back to garbage speeds. In theory you can get 2 Gbps speeds, but in practice it seems like still around 500 Mbps. I don't know if the loss has improved but it was a significant problem before, since even a low loss will render a connection unusable.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- chasd00 8mo agoFunny how mass surveillance concerns are popping up here and there these days. That boat sailed 20 years ago.
- glitchc 8mo agoCaveat: Indoors. However, since indoors is typically a private space, the degree of surveillance depends on the owner of the space. Civilians can only compel government agencies to make sure that government buildings do not enable tracking. We won't be able to stop Walmart, they can always play the security card which trumps privacy every time.
- midtake 8mo agoWalmart has no need for this, they can already surveil you better with actual cameras and microphones.
- transpute 8mo agoWiFi Sensing is part of Wi-Fi 7 and present in most recent laptops and smartphones. Local NPU machine learning can be combined with WiFI radar. Malware can attack phone and radio basebands and exploit this capability. It can uniquely fingerprint human biometrics, measure breathing rate, record keystrokes and more. Thousands of academic papers have been published in the last 15 years on "device free wireless sensing", before the capability was ratified by IEEE as 802.11bf. It's being rolled out commercially. Mitigations include drywall or insulation with a layer of RF shielding. "Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion", 500 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44426726#44427986 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44426726#44427986 "Wi-fi signal tracks heartbeat without wearables", 80 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45488908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45488908 2022 laptop demo of respiration sensing, https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/research/respiration-detection-using-wi-fi-sensing.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/research/respiration... | https://community.intel.com/t5/Blogs/Tech-Innovation/Client/Wi-Fi-Sensing-Adding-Sensing-Capability-To-Intel-Wireless/post/1416624 https://community.intel.com/t5/Blogs/Tech-Innovation/Client/... 2025 biometric signature, https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/whofi_wifi_identifier/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/22/whofi_wifi_identifier... > Researchers.. developed.. a biometric identifier for people based on the way the human body interferes with Wi-Fi signal propagation.. CSI in the context of Wi-Fi devices refers to information about the amplitude and phase of electromagnetic transmissions.. interact with the human body in a way that results in person-specific distortions.. processed by a deep neural network, the result is a unique data signature.. [for] signal-based Re-ID systems
- Bender 8mo agoWiFi Could Become an Invisible Mass Surveillance System Highly unlikely and would be a waste of effort and resources. In the real world we are already well surveilled by cameras, microphones, satellites, cell phones, televisions, modern vehicles with a large number of cameras, web enabled doorbell cameras, refrigerators, AirTags, robot vacuum cleaners that map our home and monitor us, anything bluetooth enabled and that is even before actual spy devices like laser microphones that can turn most windows into a giant microphone. All of these methods are far more attainable without trying to recreate microwave imaging that has been used by the feds for ages and the feds use a handheld device vs. this complex lab setup and this is even before we talk about advanced high resolution milspec FLIR which some companies have managed to get into serious trouble for selling to sanctioned countries for ITAR violations.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- toss1 8mo ago"As radio waves move through a space and interact with people, they create distinctive patterns that can be captured and analyzed. These patterns are comparable to images produced by cameras, but they are formed using radio signals rather than light. " The concept sounds not unlike like the multispectral imaging produced by Geordi's visor in TNG. Seems conceptually possible, but likely too much computing power and observing time (to build up and learn each individual's pattern in that part of the RF band), at least in current times. I'm sure it could be developed to work in the field, but what is the use case where it pays off to make the silly-money investment to make it happen? Especially so when it's far easier to simply notice pings and get better data when approximately everyone always carries their mobile phone.
- ddtaylor 8mo agoXfinity does it or at least say they do.
- khana 8mo ago[dead]
- an-allen 8mo agoCould? Is mate. Is.
- diggyhole 8mo agoYou're carrying a mass surveillance system in your pants pocket
- palata 8mo agoThis "could become" sounds exactly like when you look at a cool robotics project, and when you ask the researcher what it could be used for, they say "it could be used for search & rescue after a natural disaster". The truth is that it's cool research that currently has zero use-case. But a) journalists would not write about that and b) researchers may try to use examples to explain what their research does. Probably researchers are tempted to find a cool use-case of course, because it's better for them if journalists write about their research. This sounds like cool research that is not remotely close to becoming an invisible mass surveillance system.
- bagels 8mo agoWiFi is already part of invisible mass surveillance systems, though not in the way described in the article. It's part of how cell phones fix location, based on nearby wifi endpoints, which is then sent to google, apple, every app, every advertiser, etc.
- prepend 8mo agoI remember reading about this in a Cory Doctorow novel decades ago, Eastern Standard Tribe, I think.
- Legend2440 8mo agoI'm skeptical; this seems like a pretty crappy way to do surveillance. Cameras give you much more information.
- darepublic 8mo agoCorrect me if I'm wrong but assuming they didn't already know your identity, wearing a mask for instance would prevent profiling you based on your radio wave constructed facial features.
- LePetitPrince 8mo ago[dead]
- scottLobster 8mo agoCool spooky concept, but seems like this could be easily foiled by shoving some aluminum foil into one's pockets or wearing thermal clothing in the winter. Or moving furniture around. My cheapo Amazon desk is steel framed, and the monitors have all sorts of metal and signals running through them. I know it impacts wifi because my wifi-connected printer gets crappy signal on one side and decent signal on the other. Good luck getting a positive ID via wifi when I'm sitting at it. Likewise I don't see how this survives in the real world for a mass surveillance application. Any "signature" will be in constant flux as environments change, in terms of everything from crowds to weather. I'll need to see a demo outside of a controlled environment before I start trying to obfuscate my signature or remodel my house to run Ethernet everywhere.
- esseph 8mo ago802.11bf WLAN Sensing Task Group https://www.ieee802.org/11/Reports/tgbf_update.htm https://www.ieee802.org/11/Reports/tgbf_update.htm Task Group bf is expected to develop an amendment that defines modifications to the IEEE 802.11 medium access control layer (MAC) and to the Directional Multi Gigabit (DMG) and enhanced DMG (EDMG) PHYs to enhance Wireless Local Area Network (WLAN) sensing (SENS) operation in license-exempt frequency bands between 1 GHz and 7.125 GHz and above 45 GHz. --- - Stations to inform other stations of their WLAN sensing capabilities - Request and setup transmissions that enable WLAN sensing measurements to be performed - Exchange of WLAN sensing feedback and information
- lightningspirit 8mo agoThat makes sense. Wi-Fi uses radio waves, part of the light spectrum. Like our eyes or cameras can watch and record, Wi-Fi can also be used for this purpose.
- hactually 8mo agohah. Could. At university over a decade ago, we were looking at using Bluetooth/WiFi signals to create live room maps for military applications. Since then, the tech has only got better.
- digiown 8mo agoThis reminds me of those side channel attacks in crypto. Maybe it works, but any adversary most certainly has easier ways of surveilling you, like hidden cameras with facial recognition.
- qwertox 8mo agoAnd you could surveil them as well, and then shoot them a directed EMP to fry their circuits.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- rconti 8mo agoThanks to this disaster of a website that prompts my browser to accept notifications, and autoplays a video ad that hijacked my audio output and shifted the content I was listening to over to the internal computer speaker.
- zx8080 8mo agoCould? It has, long time ago: The first iPad did not have GPS module. It has location system, though. It worked by listening to WiFi and knowing the location of the routers. The list of them updated over the air.
- pavelstoev 8mo agoIn a dynamically changing environment (from the perspective of Wi-Fi signal), this will be difficult but not impossible with modern applications of ML algorithms. We worked on this technique back in 2016-18 at the University of Toronto WIRLab; take a look at the results video from back then. I think the person is somewhat identifiable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTOUBUhC0Cg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTOUBUhC0Cg
- est 8mo agointeresting that Intel AX210 with 4x2 antenna on 6GHz allows Channel State Information (CSI) collection
- HNisCIS 8mo agoIf you have a phone in your hand the wifi isn't what's surveiling you. At least with wifi routers it's much easier to control what software is running on the device relative to an iOS or android device. As someone in the RF world, there are way more concerning emerging threats that are much harder to mitigate.
- bothlabs 8mo agoHaving worked with ML-based sensing for years, what stands out here isn't the accuracy (near 100%), it's the simplicity. No specialized hardware, no cameras, no cooperation from the target needed. Just passive observation of unencrypted beamforming feedback that every modern router already broadcasts. The window to embed privacy protections into the IEEE 802.11bf standard is closing. Once this is ratified without safeguards, retrofitting privacy will be much harder.
- lloeki 8mo ago"Could Become" ? https://hueblog.com/2025/09/23/step-by-step-guide-setting-up-hue-motionaware/ https://hueblog.com/2025/09/23/step-by-step-guide-setting-up... https://hueblog.com/2025/12/01/next-step-for-hue-motionaware-presence-detection/ https://hueblog.com/2025/12/01/next-step-for-hue-motionaware...
- mahrain 8mo agoSure, however as explained further in this thread the BFI approach is new as opposed to the courser Zigbee RSSI-based approaches of Hue MotionAware.
- KaseKun 8mo agoYou lost me at "these are formed using radio signals rather than light"
- Piraty 8mo agorelated (2022): DensePose From WiFi https://arxiv.org/abs/2301.00250 https://arxiv.org/abs/2301.00250
- Lapsa 8mo agoreminder - there's tech out there that is capable of reading your thoughts. remotely. look up radiomyography
- utopiah 8mo agoRight... tbh it's a bit like Flock or Ring. Yes sure it's potentially bad (probably is already but leaving some room for doubt). Yet, it's pointless when people VOLUNTEER they private information to corporate actors who happily give EVERYTHING to the highest bidder or, when they have to, for free to governments who ask. So... sure, be worried of that, be worried of networks of cameras but and more if you ALREADY give everything away, don't be worried, just embrace it! I'm not even being sarcastic here.
- AverageSavage 8mo agoThis reminds me of cold war era espionage. There is a documented case where a listening device was hidden in a KGB room where sensitive typing was happening, such as code / decode. The CIA/MI6 were able to decipher by hearing the key stokes and assigning an alphabetic value to them. Crazy smart. So, I guess it works along the same general principals?