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Radboud University selects Fairphone as standard smartphone for employees

537 points by ardentsword 9mo ago

gizzlon 9mo ago
Great! I just bought a 6 a few months ago and I'm very happy with it. Might even get another one and run E or some other less googlified os
jtvjan 9mo ago
The easily replacable parts feature sounds like it'd work great in a university context. The uni's service desk could stock up on replacement parts and fix the phones right there instead of having to send it in for repairs.
- Jolter 9mo ago
  Same as any other major employer, surely? At least, you’re describing how it works at my previous employer (large private enterprise).
  - consp 9mo ago
    Universities in the Netherlands usually do not have the free cash for stocking up on parts, in general they take them in your get a loaner and they repair it afterwards or send it back to the manufacturer. But i guess it is a plus the design team is in the same country.
    - vanviegen 9mo ago
      I'm sure a university should be able to find a couple of thousand EURs floating around somewhere.
      - wiredpancake 9mo ago
        [dead]
- Vinnl 9mo ago
  If e.g. someone's mainboard breaks, they can just give them a new phone and take in the old one, and then use the remaining parts to repair other employees' phones with working mainboards.
ivanbakel 9mo ago
Interesting that they settled on a standard model at all. The announcement implies that the university is responsible for phone maintenance and repair, which makes sense as a motivation, but is not something I would expect in itself from a cost/expertise standpoint. I would be curious to know if a Fairphone makes servicing cheap enough to warrant doing it in-house for an IT department. It’s also tacit, but I assume it helps them to interface with a Dutch company. Did they get any financial incentive for it?
- tossandthrow 9mo ago
  The university should push the maintainance to the holder of the phone? That seems unreasonable. As mentioned in another comment. Universities already have in house it services. Being able to fix the phone right there with spare parts is likely very cost efficient.
  - Heliosmaster 9mo ago
    I think the alternative was to contract it out to an IT company rather than push it to the holder. Same as company phones in corporate environments
- wongarsu 9mo ago
  If the university didn't make phone repairs themselves they would have to send the phones off for repair, or contract with a local phone repair shop. Or the secret third option: telling your employees to get it fixed and send you the invoice. None of them are cheap, and some of them will make you very annoyed with your billing/procurement/finance people. After a certain scale doing it inhouse makes sense, and with the right phone it's not much more difficult than fixing a business laptop, which is also commonly done inhouse with available spare parts
  - retired 9mo ago
    Dutch wages are high though. Especially at scale it could make sense to bundle all broken phones in one big box, ship it off to a low-wage country and then ship the phones back after refurbishment. 7500 employees, 7500 phones. If they all need one repair every other year that is nearly 20 repairs a day. That is a full-time job, which in The Netherlands has an employment cost of around €75,000 a year (including a place to work, pension, benefits). I bet someone in Romania could do it for half the cost. Shipping 100 phones in a box every week isn't that expensive.
nehalem 9mo ago
Seeing news like this, I wonder whether there is a market for an OSS Android and/or Linux distribution that provides the management comfort of Chromebooks without being tied to Google, Apple or Microsoft. A little like Keycloak but one layer higher.
- fsflover 9mo ago
  > Android > without being tied to Google That's a contradiction.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 9mo ago
    No. I'm on GrapheneOS and not tied to Google. You must be thinking of the Google Play Services but these aren't required by GrapheneOS.
    - pjmlp 9mo ago
      As long as it depends on Google paying upstream development that GrapheneOS updates from, it is tied to Google. Now if GrapheneOS was its own thing without additional AOSP code updates.
      - philipallstar 9mo ago
        This becomes sophistry, though. "tied to" in a way that doesn't matter, doesn't matter.
        pjmlp 9mo ago
        Ah but it does, as Google can decide to close down AOSP shop at any moment.
        microtonal 9mo ago
        If that happens, the world can always try to fork. Until then it seems kind of pointless to do so?
lwhi 9mo ago
I have a friend who bought a fair phone with a view to being able to replace its modular parts. Four years later and the model had been discontinued, so he had to buy a new Fairphone. Would it more economical and sustainable to buy a second hand / reconditioned feature phone from Samsung?
- jraph 9mo ago
  Environmentally speaking, (re)using existing hardware / buying second hand probably beats everything.
  - deaux 9mo ago
    Absolutely. If you want to even pretend to care about the environment, the very first step is starting to buy almost everything over $100 second hand. The added benefit is that it has lots of other societally positive effects! It has one of the very highest "sacrifices made vs. societal benefit" ratios there is. Please stop buying "environmentally friendly" gadgets and equipment and start buying "unfriendly" ones second-hand. There are very few categories of products where the efficiency gains made over the last decade mean you should buy new. Certainly less than 1% of purchases we make.
    - mstipetic 9mo ago
      I do that but I also feel kinda bad since I feel I’m taking it instead of someone else who’s more budget constrained than me
      - jraph 9mo ago
        You shouldn't, really. I don't think there's shortage in the second hand market. We probably need more people reusing stuff.
      - deaux 9mo ago
        You're providing income to someone whose almost definitely more constrained than you. Without you, no one may have bought it. And the other comment is right - it's a buyers market, we need more buyers, there's a surplus of sellers. Another thing - if sellers more quickly and more easily get to sell their stuff second hand thanks to you, they're more incentivized to sell more in the future as well instead of keeping it in a drawer or throwing it in the trash. You're doing great for everyone involved!
Kim_Bruning 9mo ago
Fairphones are awesome, and they even come with a de-googled version of android. Also: Made in Holland!
- jcattle 9mo ago
  *designed in holland
- microtonal 9mo ago
  The default OS is not de-googled Android though, but regular Android. You have to buy the /e/OS variant, which is slightly more expensive (or flash it yourself). But with the long-term support and access to spare parts (the university can stock them), this seems like a good move. Also happy for FairPhone that they are getting more traction.
  - palata 9mo ago
    > The default OS is not de-googled Android though, but regular Android. You have to buy the /e/OS variant For some definition of de-google, though. /e/OS is based on LineageOS which is based on AOSP which is developed by Google. And microg contacts the Google servers, doesn't it? My understanding is that it's just an open source implementation of the Play Services.
  - subscribed 9mo ago
    You really don't want /e/ on Fairphone. That's frankly worst of both worlds. Insecure hardware with limited patches and updates, running insecure software with much patches skipped or delayed. Most recent fairphone is based on Android 15, while 16 is available from mid-2025. Yes, that matters, releases is not only eyecandy, but also some security patches (ie: not many patches are back ported from 16). https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/24463713641234-The-Fairphone-Gen-6-Release-Notes https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/244637136412... Features: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm Historic security updates : https://web.archive.org/web/20241231003546/https://divestos.org/pages/patch_history https://web.archive.org/web/20241231003546/https://divestos.... So, I'd rather have second hand debloated midrange Motorola thank /e/, even less so on Fairphone.
nehal3m 9mo ago
Posting from an FP4 with slashyslash! (/e/) Good move from a service perspective, repairs while you wait instead of backing up, transfer to new phone, sending the old one in for service, yada yada yada. Also great for Fairphone's growth to have a stable business partner.
IshKebab 9mo ago
I know several family members who have bought Fairphone's and been disappointed by them. It's really impressive how repairable they've managed to make such integrated devices, but it seems like they didn't do such a good job on making a reliable phone in the first place. I think what we really need is legislation to force all phone manufacturers to at least make the batteries and screens relatively easily replaceable. Maybe a cap on the replacement costs and a minimum support time would be a reasonable way to do that.
- thisislife2 9mo ago
  And with an unlockable bootloader (that can be easily unlocked without needing to contact the manufacturer or require any special software).
- eloisant 9mo ago
  I've read that the Fairphone 6 is more like a "regular" phone than the previous one, because it has a standard phone chip (Snapdragon) instead of an IoT one. They did that to get longer software support from Qualcomm, but now they can get long support for Snapdragon chips.
- mhitza 9mo ago
  > I think what we really need is legislation to force all phone manufacturers to at least make the batteries and screens relatively easily replaceable. We are slowly getting there, user removable/replaceable batteries are part of the following regulation (first link I've got) https://www.brownejacobson.com/insights/compliance-obligations-under-eu-batteries-regulation https://www.brownejacobson.com/insights/compliance-obligatio... The big caveat will be that some leeway is going to be given to "waterproof" devices. Remains to be seen how many producers jump on that angle to avoid serviceability.
lurk2 9mo ago
Tangential to the article but I’m on year 6 of waiting for the alternative smartphone market to offer what I’m actually looking for and here seems as good a place as any to complain about it: I just want a screen with a headphone jack and a web browser on a device that isn’t serviced by Apple or Google. I don’t even care about having the battery being removable. It doesn’t even have to be able to make phone calls. I’m getting ready to go back to a dumbphone and digital camera because no one is making what I’m looking for, and it sort of seems like they never will.
- SSLy 9mo ago
  https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_10_v-12264.php https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_10_v-12264.php + https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/ https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/
  - lurk2 9mo ago
    This looks promising. Is the camera any good?
    - SSLy 9mo ago
      it has OIS at the very least, which is something. But you'll always would better be served by a dedicated camera if you really care about pushing photos. EDIT: jolla also sells this, has a jack https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone
    - hengheng 9mo ago
      Goalpost move detected.
      - darkwater 9mo ago
        Well, to be fair they did mention "digital camera" in their initial message, but I would agree that it sounds like a goalpost move indeed.
jhoho 9mo ago
I'm on board as soon as they include a zoom camera. But for now it seems like I'll remain with a Pixel and GrapheneOS.
- adrian_b 9mo ago
  A camera with optical zoom would be indeed nice. For me another feature is what disqualifies it. Fairphone 6 would have been otherwise acceptable for myself, as it has quite decent specifications, but it only has USB 2.0. Other smartphones at around the same price not only have USB 3, but also DisplayPort 1.4 (e.g. from Motorola). I hate when I see even on many smartphones over $1000, that they save a few cents by implementing USB 2 instead of USB 3, and a few dollars at most by not implementing DisplayPort. The SoC used in Fairphone 6 supports both USB 3 and DisplayPort, but its designers have saved a few external components by not offering these features. Pixel is also disqualified for me by the same reason. Unfortunately only some smartphones made in China offer complete features and without excessive locking of the phone.
  - jhoho 9mo ago
    I second this, although since the Pixel 8(a) they all come with USB-C 3.2 and DisplayPort support. You have to buy a cable that supports it, though.
  - ranguna 9mo ago
    > Pixel is also disqualified for me by the same reason. How so? I think all pixels starting from 6 or 7 have DisplayPort output through USB C. I watched a movie the other day with my projector connected to my pixel 10 running grapheneOS. Other than getting a phone call halfway through the movie and a few hiccups selecting the audio Jack output, everything ran smoothly.
    - adrian_b 9mo ago
      This is good to know, but they certainly do not advertise this feature as existing. On Google Store there is no information about this and other sites, like Gsmarena, also do not have any information on it, unlike for the smartphones from other vendors that have DisplayPort. On some older Pixel models, it has been discovered that DisplayPort existed in hardware, but it was disabled in software by the Google operating system. It could be enabled only by replacing the OS. I see that you also do not use its native OS, so this condition may have remained true. About newer models, it was supposed that the hardware support might have been removed. How did you discover that DisplayPort exists on your Pixel 10? Was this mentioned in its user manual? Do you have the plain Pixel 10 or some Pro version? Do you happen to know whether you have DisplayPort 1.2 or 1.4? I.e. which is the maximum resolution at which you have used it, can it do 4k @ 60 Hz on a monitor or projector? Did you have to use the audio jack because the smartphone does not know to send the audio through DisplayPort, or was that a limitation of your projector (or perhaps of some DisplayPort/HDMI converter that you may have used)? Having this feature and not documenting it for the potential buyers is even more stupid than not implementing it, as this can lead to lost sales. Like with Fairphone 6, I have considered buying Pixel 10, which at least has USB 3, but I have eliminated it from the possible choices for the lack of DisplayPort. EDIT: Googling now, I have found an article at Google's "Pixel Phone Help": https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/2865484?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/2865484?hl=en which says "Connect your phone to a display device (Pixel 8 and later)", So indeed, DisplayPort is supported officially starting with Pixel 8. Nevertheless, it says nothing about what kind of DisplayPort is supported, i.e. which is the maximum resolution that is achievable on a monitor/projector, and this help answer is well hidden, you have to search specifically for it, instead of having clear technical specification of the Pixel phones, easy to discover by potential buyers. Moreover, it can do only screen or window mirroring, instead of having a desktop mode like other vendors, so I think that it probably is limited to 1080 lines, which is the resolution of Pixel's screen (non-Pro models, but Pro are only slightly better). In that case, it still does not do what I want, which is a 4k resolution on a monitor/projector (it can record 4k movies after all, so I would have expected to be able to play them).
iso1631 9mo ago
Looking to replace my iphone 12 mini. Alas the fairphone is also obnoxiosuly large. Seems the only phone available today under 65mm is the Jelly Star
- prmoustache 9mo ago
  The thing is the apps themselves start to be unusable on smaller screens as DEV don't take them into account anymore.
- com 9mo ago
  Me too. I've seen that horror too :-)
- lucb1e 9mo ago
  I looked into the Jelly Star about six months ago. Downsides are the lack of dual-frequency GNSS and eSIM, and blanks in my spreadsheet are chipset speed, unlockability, warranty, slow motion camera speed, screen brightness, storage speed, and battery life (on 2Ah that might not be very much). The IR blaster and FM radio are cool benefits though, and it's very cheap. May be worth a try if you're feeling adventurous and enjoy it being a conversation starter, but I wouldn't expect much longevity from it (battery life or warranty)
Jolter 9mo ago
They’re hardly pioneers; my wife’s employer switched from Apple to Fairphone as the pre-selected option a few years ago. They have about 10k employees.
6510 9mo ago
The thing I would like to see is a second purpose for smart phones, an afterlife, calculator heaven? It doesn't have to be cheap. It might for example resign into a security camera or a doorbell. A metal bracket with a connector, a button or a connection for one, a seperate psu with a bell or a relay for one, screws to attach the wires, perhaps a stripped down end of life OS (altho it could just be a mode) and it becomes a very good doorbell with motion detection, a good amount of storage, two way video if you want it. Share with someone [temporarly]. Backup footage on laptops, pc's, phones, storage devices etc etc For $100 in parts it would be highly competitive in the space but it could be more expensive as it can basically do everything a $1000 security camera offers and more. Battery backup, sim card, etc. A big phone brand might even be able to get a contract with local law enforcement so that they can have/request [emergency] access. It's just one example, a small/portable computer could resign into many things. The device only needs to know it is now a TV remote control.
kotaKat 9mo ago
"Employees who have an iPhone from Radboud University can continue to use it as long as the device is still functioning. However, returned iPhones will no longer be reissued." I wonder what the take rate will be from people rejecting the Fairphone and requesting their own SIM instead. The inner IT purchasing cynic in me says this is just a simple way to cull out your purchasing costs by only issuing one quasi-unpopular* device. * I used to issue out phones at a large hospital and we allowed device choice. We saw ~90% iPhones, 10% Android in our fleet.
- eloisant 9mo ago
  Probably not many, the iPhone only has a 35% market share in the Netherlands. The Fairphone 6 is a pretty good phone.
  - joe_mamba 9mo ago
    That sounds unreal to me. Typically rich countries, like the nordics, are majority iPhone. But then again, Dutch people are know across Europe to be cheapskates so maybe that explains it ;)
    - ahoka 9mo ago
      You know that it costs the same as the cheapest iPhone?
      - joe_mamba 9mo ago
        You know not all Android phones in NL are Fairphones? And you know plenty of ANdroids are much cheaper than a Fairphone? Which probably explains the 35% market share if that's true. But I get it, you wanted a cheap shot.
        hermanzegerman 9mo ago
        You know there are plenty ones that are more expensive than the iPhone? Like most of Samsungs Flagships, the Foldable ones etc... Also not everyone wants a shitty OS, that restricts even simple things like picture synchronization to promote their own shitty cloud service
maximgeorge 9mo ago
[dead]
damnitbuilds 9mo ago
They need to make a small diagonal model, 5" screen max, 1/2" thick, PCBs inside a rubber frame ( so no extra case needed ). Also nice would be replaceable plug-in modules a` la Frame.work laptops.
t0bia_s 9mo ago
What ROM are they use FP with?
trueno 9mo ago
cant stand big phones. thats my contribution to this discussion.
Lucasjohntee 9mo ago
[flagged]
ThisNameIsTaken 9mo ago
As Fairphone owner I have become somewhat sceptical of their repairability claim. Mine fell on its side on some pebble stones. The power-button, unprotected by the case, got scratched. The button doubles as a fingerprint reader, which ceased working due to the scratch. At first, I thought "no worries, this phone is friendly to those who want to repair it." It turns out, this part is not available for replacement. I think this is an oversight; just like the screen, it is an outward facing part, hence, bound to be damaged for some. Then, I brought it to my local repair shop. The owner had to tell me that they cannot repair Fairphone's, and that, for him, it is one of the worst companies to deal with. They try to centralise all repairs in their own repair center. Which means sending the phone -- which I need -- away for 2 weeks; paying a fee for diagnosis, an unknown cost for repair, and the hassle of a flashed phone. I already know what's broken, I just want the part. I feel this is a real shame, as I am fully supportive of the stated aims of the company, and I want the product to be good. [Aside: suggestions on how to deal with a scratched fingerprint reader are most welcome. E.g. can the scatch be re-painted? The phone thinks the reader is there, but it doesn't register any touch. ]
- retired 9mo ago
  [dead]
- zipy124 9mo ago
  Not certain which type of sensor it uses, but in any case painting it wouldn't fix it. The problem with a scratch is now it will register that as a fingerprint ridge, but it is in a fixed location, so theoretically if you re-register your finger on the scanner and always position your finger in *exactly* the same space it would still work, but as soon as your finger moves slightly, the scratches position relative to your fingerprint changes, thus changing the fingerprint that is read. You would have to fill the scratch with the same material that it is coated with, provided the scratch is just in the coating, and it isn't say a capacitive type which you've scratched part of that capacitive coating. Thus for a home-repair likely out of luck I'd think. I could be wrong, any hardware guys please feel free to chime in over me. Note: slightly simplified explanation but mostly holds for the three common types of sensors.
protimewaster 9mo ago
I thought one of the issues for Fairphone is that their security update schedule / security practices are a bit lax? Their phones are regularly requested by users to be targeted by GrapheneOS, but GOS developers contend that the security practices for the Fairphone are problematic. They apparently get security updates late and don't properly implement verified boot and attestation. I like the devices, but I've stuck with Pixel devices for the better security practices. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that a university wouldn't be concerned about late security updates and the like.
- Mxrtxn 9mo ago
  >They apparently get security updates late and don't properly implement verified boot and attestation. It doesn't matter if their os gets security updates late, becase security updates depend on the rom maker this case grapheneos.
  - protimewaster 9mo ago
    That's not entirely correct. There are also updates to the baseband, bootloader, binary driver blobs, etc. E.g., the bootloader for the FP3 was set to trust roms signed with the AOSP test keys (https://forum.fairphone.com/t/bootloader-avb-keys-used-in-roms-for-fairphone-3-4/83448 https://forum.fairphone.com/t/bootloader-avb-keys-used-in-ro...). That's not something fixable by the OS / rom maker. The security issues stemming from such things are likely real, as well. There was a paper released some time back, about binary blobs, that found: > Our results reveal that device manufacturers often neglect vendor blob updates. About 82% of firmware releases contain outdated GPU blobs (up to 1,281 days). A significant number of blobs also rely on obsolete LLVM core libraries released more than 15 years ago. To analyze their security implications, we develop a performant fuzzer that requires no physical access to mobile devices. We discover 289 security and behavioral bugs within the blobs. We also present a case study demonstrating how these vulnerabilities can be exploited via WebGL. (From https://arxiv.org/html/2410.11075 https://arxiv.org/html/2410.11075)
- lucb1e 9mo ago
  These risks don't seem to materialize if you're not targeted by something like an intelligence agency. Not sure publicly funded research has such security requirements, at least by default (they can always buy custom equipment for a project, or just not put such data on devices you take home / out and about). Might be worth it compared to the very real benefits it has around the world by paying good salaries and fairer material sourcing
maelito 9mo ago
Please, make a Fairphone mini. I'd buy it right away, whatever the price.
- lucb1e 9mo ago
  Also whatever the battery size though? Not that I disagree. I bought a Fairphone some years ago and sold it onward because it simply didn't fit in my hand, but the phone I got instead had a delicious combo of small physical battery and terribly inefficient chipset (2019 Exynos). I'd still make the same choice but it's a considerable downside (thankfully the only downside of this phone besides its age and software support by now)
xthe 9mo ago
I like how they’re re-using old Samsung stock where possible and only switching people over as needed. It avoids unnecessary waste while still shifting to a more sustainable standard.
SpaceL10n 9mo ago
Fairphone is going to enjoy the next few weeks. Radboud isn't the only one!
vinni2 9mo ago
I am surprised they give smartphones to university employees. I haven’t heard of this incentive in many other European universities.
- smmeis 9mo ago
  Its just for the employees who need a phone to do their day job, and isn't owned by the employee
lucideer 9mo ago
As a Fairphone owner, I use them for one reason I rarely see mentioned. I think they're very imperfect phones for a lot of reasons: they're bad value on a pure hardware specs to retail price comparison, their security update support isn't where it could be & the repairability - while best on the market - still has gaps. However, the rarely mentioned story is their supply chain advocacy initiatives. Not only do they try to source as much of the hardware ethically as they can, their work has also had a broad knock-on effect on the entire industry. Their living wage advocacy for the assembly factories they use has resulted in wage improvements within those supplier companies for employees working on non-FP hardware as well. Their work in Congo with the Fair Cobalt Alliance is a big part of the reason that other companies like Apple are even able to source "certificate recycled" cobalt for their batteries (albeit those certifications are misleading due to the mass balance system, they're still a lot better than nothing).

537 points by ardentsword 9mo ago

Great! I just bought a 6 a few months ago and I'm very happy with it. Might even get another one and run E or some other less googlified os

jtvjan 9mo ago

The easily replacable parts feature sounds like it'd work great in a university context. The uni's service desk could stock up on replacement parts and fix the phones right there instead of having to send it in for repairs.

Jolter 9mo ago
Same as any other major employer, surely? At least, you’re describing how it works at my previous employer (large private enterprise).
- consp 9mo ago
  Universities in the Netherlands usually do not have the free cash for stocking up on parts, in general they take them in your get a loaner and they repair it afterwards or send it back to the manufacturer. But i guess it is a plus the design team is in the same country.
  - vanviegen 9mo ago
    I'm sure a university should be able to find a couple of thousand EURs floating around somewhere.
    - wiredpancake 9mo ago
      [dead]
Vinnl 9mo ago
If e.g. someone's mainboard breaks, they can just give them a new phone and take in the old one, and then use the remaining parts to repair other employees' phones with working mainboards.

ivanbakel 9mo ago

Interesting that they settled on a standard model at all. The announcement implies that the university is responsible for phone maintenance and repair, which makes sense as a motivation, but is not something I would expect in itself from a cost/expertise standpoint. I would be curious to know if a Fairphone makes servicing cheap enough to warrant doing it in-house for an IT department. It’s also tacit, but I assume it helps them to interface with a Dutch company. Did they get any financial incentive for it?

tossandthrow 9mo ago
The university should push the maintainance to the holder of the phone? That seems unreasonable. As mentioned in another comment. Universities already have in house it services. Being able to fix the phone right there with spare parts is likely very cost efficient.
- Heliosmaster 9mo ago
  I think the alternative was to contract it out to an IT company rather than push it to the holder. Same as company phones in corporate environments
wongarsu 9mo ago
If the university didn't make phone repairs themselves they would have to send the phones off for repair, or contract with a local phone repair shop. Or the secret third option: telling your employees to get it fixed and send you the invoice. None of them are cheap, and some of them will make you very annoyed with your billing/procurement/finance people. After a certain scale doing it inhouse makes sense, and with the right phone it's not much more difficult than fixing a business laptop, which is also commonly done inhouse with available spare parts
- retired 9mo ago
  Dutch wages are high though. Especially at scale it could make sense to bundle all broken phones in one big box, ship it off to a low-wage country and then ship the phones back after refurbishment. 7500 employees, 7500 phones. If they all need one repair every other year that is nearly 20 repairs a day. That is a full-time job, which in The Netherlands has an employment cost of around €75,000 a year (including a place to work, pension, benefits). I bet someone in Romania could do it for half the cost. Shipping 100 phones in a box every week isn't that expensive.

nehalem 9mo ago

Seeing news like this, I wonder whether there is a market for an OSS Android and/or Linux distribution that provides the management comfort of Chromebooks without being tied to Google, Apple or Microsoft. A little like Keycloak but one layer higher.

fsflover 9mo ago
> Android > without being tied to Google That's a contradiction.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 9mo ago
  No. I'm on GrapheneOS and not tied to Google. You must be thinking of the Google Play Services but these aren't required by GrapheneOS.
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    As long as it depends on Google paying upstream development that GrapheneOS updates from, it is tied to Google. Now if GrapheneOS was its own thing without additional AOSP code updates.
    - philipallstar 9mo ago
      This becomes sophistry, though. "tied to" in a way that doesn't matter, doesn't matter.
      - pjmlp 9mo ago
        Ah but it does, as Google can decide to close down AOSP shop at any moment.
        microtonal 9mo ago
        If that happens, the world can always try to fork. Until then it seems kind of pointless to do so?

lwhi 9mo ago

I have a friend who bought a fair phone with a view to being able to replace its modular parts. Four years later and the model had been discontinued, so he had to buy a new Fairphone. Would it more economical and sustainable to buy a second hand / reconditioned feature phone from Samsung?

jraph 9mo ago
Environmentally speaking, (re)using existing hardware / buying second hand probably beats everything.
- deaux 9mo ago
  Absolutely. If you want to even pretend to care about the environment, the very first step is starting to buy almost everything over $100 second hand. The added benefit is that it has lots of other societally positive effects! It has one of the very highest "sacrifices made vs. societal benefit" ratios there is. Please stop buying "environmentally friendly" gadgets and equipment and start buying "unfriendly" ones second-hand. There are very few categories of products where the efficiency gains made over the last decade mean you should buy new. Certainly less than 1% of purchases we make.
  - mstipetic 9mo ago
    I do that but I also feel kinda bad since I feel I’m taking it instead of someone else who’s more budget constrained than me
    - jraph 9mo ago
      You shouldn't, really. I don't think there's shortage in the second hand market. We probably need more people reusing stuff.
    - deaux 9mo ago
      You're providing income to someone whose almost definitely more constrained than you. Without you, no one may have bought it. And the other comment is right - it's a buyers market, we need more buyers, there's a surplus of sellers. Another thing - if sellers more quickly and more easily get to sell their stuff second hand thanks to you, they're more incentivized to sell more in the future as well instead of keeping it in a drawer or throwing it in the trash. You're doing great for everyone involved!

Kim_Bruning 9mo ago

Fairphones are awesome, and they even come with a de-googled version of android. Also: Made in Holland!

jcattle 9mo ago
*designed in holland
microtonal 9mo ago
The default OS is not de-googled Android though, but regular Android. You have to buy the /e/OS variant, which is slightly more expensive (or flash it yourself). But with the long-term support and access to spare parts (the university can stock them), this seems like a good move. Also happy for FairPhone that they are getting more traction.
- palata 9mo ago
  > The default OS is not de-googled Android though, but regular Android. You have to buy the /e/OS variant For some definition of de-google, though. /e/OS is based on LineageOS which is based on AOSP which is developed by Google. And microg contacts the Google servers, doesn't it? My understanding is that it's just an open source implementation of the Play Services.
- subscribed 9mo ago
  You really don't want /e/ on Fairphone. That's frankly worst of both worlds. Insecure hardware with limited patches and updates, running insecure software with much patches skipped or delayed. Most recent fairphone is based on Android 15, while 16 is available from mid-2025. Yes, that matters, releases is not only eyecandy, but also some security patches (ie: not many patches are back ported from 16). https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/24463713641234-The-Fairphone-Gen-6-Release-Notes https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/244637136412... Features: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm Historic security updates : https://web.archive.org/web/20241231003546/https://divestos.org/pages/patch_history https://web.archive.org/web/20241231003546/https://divestos.... So, I'd rather have second hand debloated midrange Motorola thank /e/, even less so on Fairphone.

nehal3m 9mo ago

Posting from an FP4 with slashyslash! (/e/) Good move from a service perspective, repairs while you wait instead of backing up, transfer to new phone, sending the old one in for service, yada yada yada. Also great for Fairphone's growth to have a stable business partner.

IshKebab 9mo ago

I know several family members who have bought Fairphone's and been disappointed by them. It's really impressive how repairable they've managed to make such integrated devices, but it seems like they didn't do such a good job on making a reliable phone in the first place. I think what we really need is legislation to force all phone manufacturers to at least make the batteries and screens relatively easily replaceable. Maybe a cap on the replacement costs and a minimum support time would be a reasonable way to do that.

thisislife2 9mo ago
And with an unlockable bootloader (that can be easily unlocked without needing to contact the manufacturer or require any special software).
eloisant 9mo ago
I've read that the Fairphone 6 is more like a "regular" phone than the previous one, because it has a standard phone chip (Snapdragon) instead of an IoT one. They did that to get longer software support from Qualcomm, but now they can get long support for Snapdragon chips.
mhitza 9mo ago
> I think what we really need is legislation to force all phone manufacturers to at least make the batteries and screens relatively easily replaceable. We are slowly getting there, user removable/replaceable batteries are part of the following regulation (first link I've got) https://www.brownejacobson.com/insights/compliance-obligations-under-eu-batteries-regulation https://www.brownejacobson.com/insights/compliance-obligatio... The big caveat will be that some leeway is going to be given to "waterproof" devices. Remains to be seen how many producers jump on that angle to avoid serviceability.

lurk2 9mo ago

Tangential to the article but I’m on year 6 of waiting for the alternative smartphone market to offer what I’m actually looking for and here seems as good a place as any to complain about it: I just want a screen with a headphone jack and a web browser on a device that isn’t serviced by Apple or Google. I don’t even care about having the battery being removable. It doesn’t even have to be able to make phone calls. I’m getting ready to go back to a dumbphone and digital camera because no one is making what I’m looking for, and it sort of seems like they never will.

SSLy 9mo ago
https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_10_v-12264.php https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_10_v-12264.php + https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/ https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/
- lurk2 9mo ago
  This looks promising. Is the camera any good?
  - SSLy 9mo ago
    it has OIS at the very least, which is something. But you'll always would better be served by a dedicated camera if you really care about pushing photos. EDIT: jolla also sells this, has a jack https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone
  - hengheng 9mo ago
    Goalpost move detected.
    - darkwater 9mo ago
      Well, to be fair they did mention "digital camera" in their initial message, but I would agree that it sounds like a goalpost move indeed.

jhoho 9mo ago

I'm on board as soon as they include a zoom camera. But for now it seems like I'll remain with a Pixel and GrapheneOS.

adrian_b 9mo ago
A camera with optical zoom would be indeed nice. For me another feature is what disqualifies it. Fairphone 6 would have been otherwise acceptable for myself, as it has quite decent specifications, but it only has USB 2.0. Other smartphones at around the same price not only have USB 3, but also DisplayPort 1.4 (e.g. from Motorola). I hate when I see even on many smartphones over $1000, that they save a few cents by implementing USB 2 instead of USB 3, and a few dollars at most by not implementing DisplayPort. The SoC used in Fairphone 6 supports both USB 3 and DisplayPort, but its designers have saved a few external components by not offering these features. Pixel is also disqualified for me by the same reason. Unfortunately only some smartphones made in China offer complete features and without excessive locking of the phone.
- jhoho 9mo ago
  I second this, although since the Pixel 8(a) they all come with USB-C 3.2 and DisplayPort support. You have to buy a cable that supports it, though.
- ranguna 9mo ago
  > Pixel is also disqualified for me by the same reason. How so? I think all pixels starting from 6 or 7 have DisplayPort output through USB C. I watched a movie the other day with my projector connected to my pixel 10 running grapheneOS. Other than getting a phone call halfway through the movie and a few hiccups selecting the audio Jack output, everything ran smoothly.
  - adrian_b 9mo ago
    This is good to know, but they certainly do not advertise this feature as existing. On Google Store there is no information about this and other sites, like Gsmarena, also do not have any information on it, unlike for the smartphones from other vendors that have DisplayPort. On some older Pixel models, it has been discovered that DisplayPort existed in hardware, but it was disabled in software by the Google operating system. It could be enabled only by replacing the OS. I see that you also do not use its native OS, so this condition may have remained true. About newer models, it was supposed that the hardware support might have been removed. How did you discover that DisplayPort exists on your Pixel 10? Was this mentioned in its user manual? Do you have the plain Pixel 10 or some Pro version? Do you happen to know whether you have DisplayPort 1.2 or 1.4? I.e. which is the maximum resolution at which you have used it, can it do 4k @ 60 Hz on a monitor or projector? Did you have to use the audio jack because the smartphone does not know to send the audio through DisplayPort, or was that a limitation of your projector (or perhaps of some DisplayPort/HDMI converter that you may have used)? Having this feature and not documenting it for the potential buyers is even more stupid than not implementing it, as this can lead to lost sales. Like with Fairphone 6, I have considered buying Pixel 10, which at least has USB 3, but I have eliminated it from the possible choices for the lack of DisplayPort. EDIT: Googling now, I have found an article at Google's "Pixel Phone Help": https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/2865484?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/2865484?hl=en which says "Connect your phone to a display device (Pixel 8 and later)", So indeed, DisplayPort is supported officially starting with Pixel 8. Nevertheless, it says nothing about what kind of DisplayPort is supported, i.e. which is the maximum resolution that is achievable on a monitor/projector, and this help answer is well hidden, you have to search specifically for it, instead of having clear technical specification of the Pixel phones, easy to discover by potential buyers. Moreover, it can do only screen or window mirroring, instead of having a desktop mode like other vendors, so I think that it probably is limited to 1080 lines, which is the resolution of Pixel's screen (non-Pro models, but Pro are only slightly better). In that case, it still does not do what I want, which is a 4k resolution on a monitor/projector (it can record 4k movies after all, so I would have expected to be able to play them).

iso1631 9mo ago

Looking to replace my iphone 12 mini. Alas the fairphone is also obnoxiosuly large. Seems the only phone available today under 65mm is the Jelly Star

prmoustache 9mo ago
The thing is the apps themselves start to be unusable on smaller screens as DEV don't take them into account anymore.
com 9mo ago
Me too. I've seen that horror too :-)
lucb1e 9mo ago
I looked into the Jelly Star about six months ago. Downsides are the lack of dual-frequency GNSS and eSIM, and blanks in my spreadsheet are chipset speed, unlockability, warranty, slow motion camera speed, screen brightness, storage speed, and battery life (on 2Ah that might not be very much). The IR blaster and FM radio are cool benefits though, and it's very cheap. May be worth a try if you're feeling adventurous and enjoy it being a conversation starter, but I wouldn't expect much longevity from it (battery life or warranty)

Jolter 9mo ago

They’re hardly pioneers; my wife’s employer switched from Apple to Fairphone as the pre-selected option a few years ago. They have about 10k employees.

6510 9mo ago

The thing I would like to see is a second purpose for smart phones, an afterlife, calculator heaven? It doesn't have to be cheap. It might for example resign into a security camera or a doorbell. A metal bracket with a connector, a button or a connection for one, a seperate psu with a bell or a relay for one, screws to attach the wires, perhaps a stripped down end of life OS (altho it could just be a mode) and it becomes a very good doorbell with motion detection, a good amount of storage, two way video if you want it. Share with someone [temporarly]. Backup footage on laptops, pc's, phones, storage devices etc etc For $100 in parts it would be highly competitive in the space but it could be more expensive as it can basically do everything a $1000 security camera offers and more. Battery backup, sim card, etc. A big phone brand might even be able to get a contract with local law enforcement so that they can have/request [emergency] access. It's just one example, a small/portable computer could resign into many things. The device only needs to know it is now a TV remote control.

kotaKat 9mo ago

"Employees who have an iPhone from Radboud University can continue to use it as long as the device is still functioning. However, returned iPhones will no longer be reissued." I wonder what the take rate will be from people rejecting the Fairphone and requesting their own SIM instead. The inner IT purchasing cynic in me says this is just a simple way to cull out your purchasing costs by only issuing one quasi-unpopular* device. * I used to issue out phones at a large hospital and we allowed device choice. We saw ~90% iPhones, 10% Android in our fleet.

eloisant 9mo ago
Probably not many, the iPhone only has a 35% market share in the Netherlands. The Fairphone 6 is a pretty good phone.
- joe_mamba 9mo ago
  That sounds unreal to me. Typically rich countries, like the nordics, are majority iPhone. But then again, Dutch people are know across Europe to be cheapskates so maybe that explains it ;)
  - ahoka 9mo ago
    You know that it costs the same as the cheapest iPhone?
    - joe_mamba 9mo ago
      You know not all Android phones in NL are Fairphones? And you know plenty of ANdroids are much cheaper than a Fairphone? Which probably explains the 35% market share if that's true. But I get it, you wanted a cheap shot.
      - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
        You know there are plenty ones that are more expensive than the iPhone? Like most of Samsungs Flagships, the Foldable ones etc... Also not everyone wants a shitty OS, that restricts even simple things like picture synchronization to promote their own shitty cloud service

maximgeorge 9mo ago

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damnitbuilds 9mo ago

They need to make a small diagonal model, 5" screen max, 1/2" thick, PCBs inside a rubber frame ( so no extra case needed ). Also nice would be replaceable plug-in modules a` la Frame.work laptops.

t0bia_s 9mo ago

What ROM are they use FP with?

trueno 9mo ago

cant stand big phones. thats my contribution to this discussion.

Lucasjohntee 9mo ago

[flagged]

ThisNameIsTaken 9mo ago

As Fairphone owner I have become somewhat sceptical of their repairability claim. Mine fell on its side on some pebble stones. The power-button, unprotected by the case, got scratched. The button doubles as a fingerprint reader, which ceased working due to the scratch. At first, I thought "no worries, this phone is friendly to those who want to repair it." It turns out, this part is not available for replacement. I think this is an oversight; just like the screen, it is an outward facing part, hence, bound to be damaged for some. Then, I brought it to my local repair shop. The owner had to tell me that they cannot repair Fairphone's, and that, for him, it is one of the worst companies to deal with. They try to centralise all repairs in their own repair center. Which means sending the phone -- which I need -- away for 2 weeks; paying a fee for diagnosis, an unknown cost for repair, and the hassle of a flashed phone. I already know what's broken, I just want the part. I feel this is a real shame, as I am fully supportive of the stated aims of the company, and I want the product to be good. [Aside: suggestions on how to deal with a scratched fingerprint reader are most welcome. E.g. can the scatch be re-painted? The phone thinks the reader is there, but it doesn't register any touch. ]

retired 9mo ago
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zipy124 9mo ago
Not certain which type of sensor it uses, but in any case painting it wouldn't fix it. The problem with a scratch is now it will register that as a fingerprint ridge, but it is in a fixed location, so theoretically if you re-register your finger on the scanner and always position your finger in *exactly* the same space it would still work, but as soon as your finger moves slightly, the scratches position relative to your fingerprint changes, thus changing the fingerprint that is read. You would have to fill the scratch with the same material that it is coated with, provided the scratch is just in the coating, and it isn't say a capacitive type which you've scratched part of that capacitive coating. Thus for a home-repair likely out of luck I'd think. I could be wrong, any hardware guys please feel free to chime in over me. Note: slightly simplified explanation but mostly holds for the three common types of sensors.

protimewaster 9mo ago

I thought one of the issues for Fairphone is that their security update schedule / security practices are a bit lax? Their phones are regularly requested by users to be targeted by GrapheneOS, but GOS developers contend that the security practices for the Fairphone are problematic. They apparently get security updates late and don't properly implement verified boot and attestation. I like the devices, but I've stuck with Pixel devices for the better security practices. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that a university wouldn't be concerned about late security updates and the like.

Mxrtxn 9mo ago
>They apparently get security updates late and don't properly implement verified boot and attestation. It doesn't matter if their os gets security updates late, becase security updates depend on the rom maker this case grapheneos.
- protimewaster 9mo ago
  That's not entirely correct. There are also updates to the baseband, bootloader, binary driver blobs, etc. E.g., the bootloader for the FP3 was set to trust roms signed with the AOSP test keys (https://forum.fairphone.com/t/bootloader-avb-keys-used-in-roms-for-fairphone-3-4/83448 https://forum.fairphone.com/t/bootloader-avb-keys-used-in-ro...). That's not something fixable by the OS / rom maker. The security issues stemming from such things are likely real, as well. There was a paper released some time back, about binary blobs, that found: > Our results reveal that device manufacturers often neglect vendor blob updates. About 82% of firmware releases contain outdated GPU blobs (up to 1,281 days). A significant number of blobs also rely on obsolete LLVM core libraries released more than 15 years ago. To analyze their security implications, we develop a performant fuzzer that requires no physical access to mobile devices. We discover 289 security and behavioral bugs within the blobs. We also present a case study demonstrating how these vulnerabilities can be exploited via WebGL. (From https://arxiv.org/html/2410.11075 https://arxiv.org/html/2410.11075)
lucb1e 9mo ago
These risks don't seem to materialize if you're not targeted by something like an intelligence agency. Not sure publicly funded research has such security requirements, at least by default (they can always buy custom equipment for a project, or just not put such data on devices you take home / out and about). Might be worth it compared to the very real benefits it has around the world by paying good salaries and fairer material sourcing

maelito 9mo ago

Please, make a Fairphone mini. I'd buy it right away, whatever the price.

lucb1e 9mo ago
Also whatever the battery size though? Not that I disagree. I bought a Fairphone some years ago and sold it onward because it simply didn't fit in my hand, but the phone I got instead had a delicious combo of small physical battery and terribly inefficient chipset (2019 Exynos). I'd still make the same choice but it's a considerable downside (thankfully the only downside of this phone besides its age and software support by now)

xthe 9mo ago

I like how they’re re-using old Samsung stock where possible and only switching people over as needed. It avoids unnecessary waste while still shifting to a more sustainable standard.

SpaceL10n 9mo ago

Fairphone is going to enjoy the next few weeks. Radboud isn't the only one!

vinni2 9mo ago

I am surprised they give smartphones to university employees. I haven’t heard of this incentive in many other European universities.

smmeis 9mo ago
Its just for the employees who need a phone to do their day job, and isn't owned by the employee

lucideer 9mo ago

As a Fairphone owner, I use them for one reason I rarely see mentioned. I think they're very imperfect phones for a lot of reasons: they're bad value on a pure hardware specs to retail price comparison, their security update support isn't where it could be & the repairability - while best on the market - still has gaps. However, the rarely mentioned story is their supply chain advocacy initiatives. Not only do they try to source as much of the hardware ethically as they can, their work has also had a broad knock-on effect on the entire industry. Their living wage advocacy for the assembly factories they use has resulted in wage improvements within those supplier companies for employees working on non-FP hardware as well. Their work in Congo with the Fair Cobalt Alliance is a big part of the reason that other companies like Apple are even able to source "certificate recycled" cobalt for their batteries (albeit those certifications are misleading due to the mass balance system, they're still a lot better than nothing).