8 ms·
Purdue blocks admission of many Chinese grad students in unwritten policy
- ls612 9mo ago[flagged]
- safgasCVS 9mo ago[flagged]
- haritha-j 9mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- estearum 9mo agoRealpolitik dictates that you don't start conflicts with all of your allies for literally no reason
- kodyo 9mo agoThe empire has vassals, not allies.
- markus_zhang 9mo agoGood point but not popular here.
- Starman_Jones 9mo agoIt's old thinking that has been proven wrong multiple times... by America.
- markus_zhang 9mo agoI think America is proving that?
- FpUser 9mo agoYou nailed it
- amarcheschi 9mo agoThe empire is doing everything it can to alienate its vassals into indipendent cities-states with their own alliances
- estearum 9mo agoRealpolitik dictates that you don't start conflicts with all of your vassals for literally no reason Satisfied?
- fsckboy 9mo agoRealpolitik does not actually dictate that. It says you pay attention to your interests but with a focus on what is actually achievable, and not focused on things like national/regional pride or unrealistic notions of utopian good. the situation where europeans feel they are in conflict with their best ally and economic partner says they actually need to relearn the lessons of realpolitik.
- estearum 9mo agoCute pedantry but everyone is aware of this. We’re having a conversation a level deeper and asking, “does this tactic comport with a realpolitik approach?” The answer is no. It is laughable to act like it’s the Europeans who feel they are in conflict with their best ally. Actually hilarious for you to suggest this.
- fsckboy 9mo agono, it's not hilarious, look at the comments here on HN, it's Europeans constantly lamenting, jabbing, complaining. Americans do not spend any time thinking that Canada and Europe are anything but friends; but other side of the border/pond, it's an obsession, born of insecurity and jealousy I would surmise but I'd be happy to be wrong.
- estearum 9mo agoBoo hoo, Americans love to poke at Europeans (Europoors/French cowards/dainty Brits/lispy Spaniards/uptight Germans) too. This is actually what friends do. The idea of the US actually getting into armed conflict with any of them was totally beyond the pale, yet today the American President's actions and words are causing NATO to reposition assets to defend against a possible American incursion. It is not Europe who has become totally unhinged, and again I'll say that if the stakes weren't so high, I would be literally laughing at your supposition that it is.
- chestercheeto 9mo agoThe metaphor might make more sense with US in the role that was invading on pretexts to try to recover the self image of a strange looking leader.
- kasey_junk 9mo agoUmm. The best physics work in the world was being done by European academics and admitting them then and earlier was perhaps the best thing that happened both for American science & tech as well as the ability to wage war.
- CamperBob2 9mo agoWhat? In fact, we did make it difficult for "German grad students in Physics" to immigrate here [1]. Fortunately for us -- very fortunately -- we found a way to accommodate them and keep them on our side. 1: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/09/22/how-ivy-leagues-jewish-quotas-shaped-higher-education https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/09/22/how-ivy-leagu...
- ls612 9mo agoFortunately for us the Germans were stupid. They chose to murder all of the relatives of those immigrants for ideological reasons instead of using their safety and life as leverage to influence the behavior of the emigres in important scientific positions. The Chinese are known to do exactly this and I don't expect too many students or professors to put their adoptive country over family.
- contrarian1234 9mo agoChina as the enemy is a fabricated narrative, bc culturally we seem to have a need to have another cold war, we need a "bad guy" in reality theyre just economic rivals. But then again so are the EU. in terms of zone of political influence the competition isnt anything crazy (except for the poor taiwanese caught in the middle) and there is no clash of political ideaologies In my experience Chinese in China don't typically see the US as an enemy. Its a weird framing for them
- tw04 9mo agoTry speaking to someone from Hong Kong or Tibet and get back to me. Claiming that China isn’t a danger to democracy and doesn’t have expansionist desires is insane. Look no further than their border with India.
- thaumasiotes 9mo ago> Look no further than their border with India. What, the one where they stage battles in which gunpowder weapons are prohibited? When's the last time it moved?
- contrarian1234 9mo agoOkay they have a small limited amount of border disputes that are wrapped up in their nationalism. But they're not instigating coupe-detats is other countries to get favorable regimes, or significantly militarily meddling in other regions of the world to get favorable outcomes. I'd say on the whole, given their size, military strength and economic connections, they've been remarkably restrained - borderline isolationist - when it comes to international interference. I don't see how they're a danger to democracy outside of their own borders - with the exception of maybe troll farms that are trying to shape cultural narratives
- themaninthedark 9mo agoChina doesn't seem to think so. >"The top uniformed soldier in China, chairman of China's Central Military Commission, stated that war with the United States is inevitable," Coffman said. "That is the first time China has made that statement publicly." https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/03/11/china-declares-war-us-inevitable-army-general-highlights-need-fighting-vehicles.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/03/11/china-declare... Would you say the same thing about Russia, Is that a fabricated narrative? Why or why not?
- fhdkweig 9mo agoThe flip-side of enrolling your enemies is that they form lifelong friendships with both the local students and the country as a whole. It makes it a lot harder to hate a country once you get to know them.
- antonymoose 9mo agoXi Jinping spent significant time in America. This hasn’t done a whole lot for us or the human rights of his people.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- lithos 9mo agoThat doesn't happen if enough of a community forms that it goes insular to itself.
- fweimer 9mo agoIn 1935, Albert Einstein relocated to Princeton permanently, so it's certainly an odd choice of a year in this context. Random graduate students won't work on classified projects. The vast majority of non-classified studies will not have any impact on national security for years to come. It's unclear what the actual risks are, beyond the general distrust of foreigners.
- Teever 9mo ago[flagged]
- wizzwizz4 9mo agoAlbert Einstein was also German. > It is quite possible to be both. I look upon myself as a man. Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. > Noch eine Art Anwendung des Relativitätsprinzips zum Ergötzen des Lesers: Heute werde ich in Deutschland als "deutscher Gelehrter", in England als "Schweizer Jude" bezeichnet; sollte ich aber einst in die Lage kommen, als "bète noire" präsentiert zu werden, dann wäre ich umgekehrt für die Deutschen ein „Schweizer Jude", für die Engländer ein "deutscher Gelehrter".
- fweimer 9mo agoBeing Jewish (even if lapsed) was more of a disadvantage. U.S. immigration policy at the time was heavily influenced by eugenic ideas, and designed to prevent further Jewish migration, particularly from Eastern Europe. Princeton University (which initially housed the Institute for Advanced Study) had its own anti-Jewish quotas.
- tdb7893 9mo agoAs an American who is a current grad student at Purdue this sucks. I've met great grad students from all around and it's sad that these exact sorts of really smart people have had increasing difficulty in coming to the US and staying here.
- whatsupdog 9mo agoThat's the issue. A lot of these undoubtedly smart people are going back home and start working for companies developing technologies aimed at dismantling the western civilization as we know it.
- disqard 9mo agoThe most potent and impactful agent "dismantling the western civilization as we know it" is not on foreign soil.
- whatsupdog 9mo ago[flagged]
- tdb7893 9mo agoSo firstly, I'm not in tech anymore so this is just trivially not true for me (I study animals and most of the people I meet are similar fields). Secondly, there's no company where their goal is destroying "western civilization" (though I'm sure they also have a very sketchy "defense" sector). If there is, they are currently being outcompeted by US tech firms anyway.
- rcbdev 9mo agoAs opposed to the holy and righteous goal of destroying middle-eastern civilization, one that can be only truly pursued by working for U.S. defense contractors.
- seanmcdirmid 9mo agoThis is sad but not unexpected. It’s a huge boon for China, since that talent is much more likely to stay in China now. Everyone thought Trump was a Russian mole, but increasingly it is the Chinese who are benefiting from his policies.
- xingped 9mo agoBoth can be (and likely are) true at the same time.
- seanmcdirmid 9mo agoYes, or Trump could just be an idiot. It’s really hard to tell malice from incompetence in this case.
- lingrush4 9mo ago[flagged]
- lucaslazarus 9mo agoWhat about this policy has anything to do with English language skills? And how is this “good policy” if it penalizes important next-generation researchers even when they speak English well? I am not denying your observation re: English language skills among Chinese graduate students—it’s just unclear what this solves that checking for English language skills during the live video interview stage does not.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- mschild 9mo ago> gaming the system to get admitted Probably money. Foreign students will almost always pay sticker price.
- thaumasiotes 9mo ago> Foreign students will almost always pay sticker price. On the contrary, they pay the international student price, which is much higher.
- mschild 9mo agoDepending on the university yes. Besides that, local students are much more likely to receive scholarships for their studies. Whether directly through the university or 3rd party.
- gruez 9mo agoIn that case why would Purdue need to ban them specifically? Just remove pressures/incentives they were putting in place to admit foreign students.
- cornell-grad 9mo ago[flagged]
- fph 9mo agoThen you should have a policy that says "English only during office hours", not one that says "no foreign grad students admitted". These students had already received an acceptance letter, so possibly they already turned down other positions based on that letter.
- badhackernews 9mo ago[dead]
- Pacers31Colts18 9mo agoPurdue doing the Chinese a favor. Nobody wants to go to West Lafayette.
- rubidium 9mo agoIt’s great place for grad school. Very little to do other than study and lab work. Play soccer with the grad students, float on the river in the summer, shoot potato gun cannons in corn fields, but otherwise there’s nothing better to do than work on a PhD. I’d recommend it for grad school. But then yea time to move on.
- vlark 9mo agoWhile some will cry this is racism against Chinese students, it is not. The reality is that Chinese students are here only with permission of the Chinese government and are beholden in many ways to the ruling Chinese communist party: https://www.propublica.org/article/even-on-us-campuses-china-cracks-down-on-students-who-speak-out https://www.propublica.org/article/even-on-us-campuses-china... https://stanfordreview.org/investigation-uncovering-chinese-academic-espionage-at-stanford/ https://stanfordreview.org/investigation-uncovering-chinese-... The PRC exerts great pressure on Chinese immigrants even after they become U.S. citizens. One need only to look at the case of the head of R&D at Coca-Cola who was convicted of stealing trade secrets for China: https://cen.acs.org/materials/polymers/Chemist-convicted-of-stealing-BPA-free-can-liner-trade-secrets-for-a-Chinese-firm/99/web/2021/04 https://cen.acs.org/materials/polymers/Chemist-convicted-of-... https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/theft-of-universities-secrets-fuels-us-crackdown-on-chinese-talent-programmes/4011014.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/theft-of-universities-se... So yes, China is an economic rival and they go to great lengths to steal U.S. trade secrets. So why should we help educate the students of an economic and military rival?
- 486sx33 9mo ago[dead]
- bradlys 9mo agoHow much of this is specific to Chinese and not just part of the general visa woes and lack of federal funding for programs now? I know that grad school is the main way for Chinese to get into the US but seems like it’s a bit sensational of a headline? Doesn’t sound Chinese specific…
- ritcgab 9mo agoPurdue is ranked the 13th on csrankings.org. Let's see how it goes in 5 years.
- metalman 9mo agoWhile I am highly suspicious of "perdue's" motives, there is the reality of china bieng so huge that they could easily fill all the openings in many many western universities, litteraly, without trying. Also trying to get good comunication and verification from the Chinese end, can be a throw your hands in the air frustration, that for, in this case an admissions department, might just go, fuck it, I know I have.