6 ms·

Memoir by Steve Jobs’ eldest daughter describes ways he was cruel to her (2018)

66 points by rendx 9mo ago

rootusrootus 9mo ago
When someone is long dead, what is the point in one-sided accusations about their character?
- baal80spam 9mo ago
  Some people just want to see the world burn, destroy culture etc.
  - Supermancho 9mo ago
    Some culture touchpoints are based on misinformation. It's usually moral to point out historic inaccuracies and to portray humans as they are.
  - clipsy 9mo ago
    > destroy culture If the truth destroys your culture, it says more about your culture than it does about the people destroying it.
- johnnyanmac 9mo ago
  depends on their legacy. If a a policy maker died but still has bills and laws in flight, it's an easy way to kill those. As well as any proteges that were running for office.
- amelius 9mo ago
  Except it compensates for the one sided praising of the guy.
  - wilg 9mo ago
    I would not say Steve Jobs received only praise during his life or after his death.
    - KaiserPro 9mo ago
      > not say Steve Jobs received only praise Jobs was idolised during his later life. (reality distortion field a-la the register) lots of founders and CEOs adopted his mannerisms, and cosplayed his stories, because they thought that was what made him _good_ Obviously there were dissenters, either people who were personally shat on by him, or didn't buy the "Jobs is better than jesus" stuff. But, they made a fucking movie about him, thats how much he was idolised.
  - rootusrootus 9mo ago
    Really? I have heard plenty of "Jobs was an asshole" comments, every time his name comes up. The most consistent assessment seems to be "he was talented, lucky, and a real asshole to work for."
- wolvoleo 9mo ago
  To make sure history doesn't only remember the good things like their accomplishments. He was often really mean in person, that's pretty clear from his biography (and I also heard from some people who met him). Seeing him remembered as a tech saint is weird then. I'm glad I never worked for Apple while he was there. Though I have unfortunately worked for someone with very similar traits. Even though he is dead and can no longer improve himself, people will use him as a role model and idolize all the bad stuff too.
  - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
    I did work for Apple while he was there, and he was entirely decent. I came to believe that there was a bratty entitled personality from his 20s that gave rise to most the jerk stories people reference, and that he wised up after being ousted (probably for being that jerk). He was essentially exiled for the better part of a decade.
    - onlypassingthru 9mo ago
      The jerk was there from the beginning. A friend's mom was temp-hired by two young guys, both named Steve, to help them set up their first company office. She liked one of the Steves but declined the offer to join their new company as the first office manager because the other Steve was an a-hole.
      - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
        that fits the early Steve vs post firing learned humility of Steve that was there after NeXT merged [ edit : typo ]
    - IAmBroom 9mo ago
      You worked for a multi-thousand-employee company, and therefore can certify the moral fiber behind closed doors of the CEO?
      - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
- subjectsigma 9mo ago
  The article made a lot of sense in 2018. If I was Lisa I would want my story to be heard. And so in turn I empathize and want to hear her story. I’m not sure why it is being reposted in 2026, though.
- austin-cheney 9mo ago
  My go to example for this is Saint Cyril. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria He is a canonized saint of Catholicism and revered as a virtuous defender of Christianity. More evidence based history instead indicates he was a narcissist primarily motivated to elevate himself politically in Alexandria which included wide spread murder and the destruction of the greatest intellectual institution the world had ever seen.
- anthonypasq 9mo ago
  if Steve Jobs wasnt famous would you have anything negative to say about a person writing a memoir describing their cruel dad?
- rendx 9mo ago
  For me, it is important to know and reflect on these stories so we can collectively heal and learn from them, regarding child abuse, narcissism, and especially (what is also mentioned in the article) enabling such abuse. This is why I posted it. If we bury these stories, and always only talk about it when people are long dead or not at all, we as communities will not evolve out of those patterns. A culture that "honors the dead" by not talking about the bad stuff they've done is catering to its abusers. Today, we should talk about Trump, Musk, etc, also in the light of how they treat their children. And what we can and should do to protect those that cannot protect themselves. We all have responsibility - the ability to respond. If we look away from the stories, we will also look away when something happens near us. And it should encourage us to grow in how we treat other people (especially children) around us. Yes, this can bring up difficult feelings about our own acts, and our own childhood experiences. And it should.
- IAmBroom 9mo ago
  Jobs' daughter has made assertions about Jobs' behavior. You are literally questioning why we are bothering to try to learn historical facts.
caycep 9mo ago
it seems quaint to dunk on Jobs now...he seems like a saint in comparison, in light of Mao Zedong-style mass-murder-by-policy from the current crop of tech industry CEOs.
- phaser 9mo ago
  Do we have mass murdering CEOs now? What did I miss?
  - wilg 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - utternerd 9mo ago
      That article cites nothing other than someone's model. There is no hard evidence in what you linked.
      - nemo 9mo ago
        While the quantification isn't inherently reliable, the reality of many dead at the hands at Elon Mush is a simple fact that's not up for dispute. The only question is how many he's killed so far. He cut off life saving meds to sick kids and food aid to the areas with food shortages, the deaths are known and reliably reported.
        utternerd 9mo ago
        Then it should be easy to prove, instead of saying "it isn't up for dispute" or citing a person's model.
        nemo 9mo ago
        True, feel free to Google "deaths attributed to end of usaid", lots to read and learn about there. Have at it.
rib3ye 9mo ago
I can't wait to hear stories from Linus' kid's childhoods.
- CuriouslyC 9mo ago
  Totally different. Linus is a jerk for justice, Steve was just a narcissistic asshole.
  - rootusrootus 9mo ago
    So you think now. A few years after Linus is dead maybe the real truth will come out, when he won't be around to defend his legacy.
    - razingeden 9mo ago
      I thought it was already pretty well established that Torvalds is a jerk? Or, at a minimum, somewhat petulant. But also a good example of someone’s accomplishments .. arguably being worth something even if that’s true. I made my whole existence off of Linus’s handiwork and owe him a debt of gratitude for it. I probably still get more in monthly residuals than 90% of the people who wrote anything I deployed. Who cares what I think of anyone personally? I’d hate to be so deranged about anyone that I can’t see any good in their accomplishments. I’m not exactly Miss Manners in the professional or personal realm either, don’t let me cast the first stone. Id even go as far as saying that Linus’s are way more important and that Steve’s destroyed society but that’s enough out of me. Even if that’s my opinion, I’m still saying that about a trillion dollar company and that’s still someone’s yardstick for success. Genius is genius, accomplishments are accomplishments … and god what a grey and insecure and screwed up IT world this would be if neither of those people ever existed and Microsoft ruled the world. Either we wouldn’t even have functional cash registers let alone any other technical pillars or infrastructure… or we’d all be in our rightful BSD utopia right about now.
      - CuriouslyC 9mo ago
        To emphasize the difference between Linus and Steve. Steve seemed to be 100% an asshole when he wasn't performing, whereas Linus is (afaik) mostly very opinionated and doesn't care about being diplomatic at all, but not fundamentally a bad human being.
kazinator 9mo ago
Unfortunately, maybe it was in part due to Steve's personality that nobody talked him out of following quack home remedies for curing cancer.
BLKNSLVR 9mo ago
There's no question in my mind that having kids gets in the way of single-minded vision that's required of the kind of career success that Jobs had. It's unfortunate, but the reality is that having kids and actually caring for them in a way that gives the best chance to turn them into good, undamaged human beings requires a massive amount of attention that would heavily distract from lofty career goals. If the drive for career success is strong enough, kids will be resented and treated as such. It sucks, and they probably shouldn't have had kids in the first place, but the biological imperative is incredibly difficult to overcome.
- asadotzler 9mo ago
  Excusing abusive parenting because he prioritize career over child rearing is pretty awful.
  - BLKNSLVR 9mo ago
    I'm in no way attempting to do that. I live my life in the opposite manner, I have two great kids (that are my lifetime greatest achievement) and a "career" that pays the bills that I could totally take or leave (pending the ability to pay the bills).
- dghlsakjg 9mo ago
  Being absent for work is different than being cruel. As a counterpoint I would highlight Buffet, Branson, and others who have managed to fulfill their obligations to the next generation without failing to dominate their industries. There is no excuse for cruelty to children, doubly so when they are your own. Jobs was an asshole because he was an asshole, not because he was driven.
- diegocg 9mo ago
  Have you read the article? He didn't just ignore her. He combined periods where he ignored her with periods of caring only to hurt her in dark ways. > Once, she says, as Jobs groped his wife and pretended to be having sex with her, he demanded that Brennan-Jobs stay in the room, calling it a "family moment." He repeatedly withheld money from her, told her that she would get "nothing" from his wealth — and even refused to install heat in her bedroom. This isn't just a career driven person
getnormality 9mo ago
Interesting little detail buried near the end: > Powell Jobs and Jobs' sister have said in a statement that the book "differs dramatically from our memories of those times." I've learned from experience that people who aggressively denounce others publicly sometimes have stuff going on that isn't readily visible. It's not that I want Jobs to be free of moral stain. I have no investment in it. But people should be cautious trusting a report of one person's disputed report.
- PostOnce 9mo ago
  Differing from your memory and differing from reality aren't the same thing. Nor is it uncommon that "the stepmom doesn't like the estranged kids" Nor is it uncommon that a deadbeat dad is an asshole. Whether or not it's true, common sense and the available evidence certainly favor Lisa.
  - red-iron-pine 9mo ago
    Jobs was a raging asshole and misanthropist famous for treating his coworkers and employees like shit -- luckally he was able to deliver, and everyone forgets that shitty behavior. it's not crazy to think he was like at that home, too.
    - Supermancho 9mo ago
      > treating his coworkers and employees like shit I worked with some of them and have one as a friend on FB (we're all dying off). I was too young to get in on early Apple for a firsthand account. S.Jobs was universally known as a rageaholic, among his other qualities. This is portrayed well enough in much of the infotainment media produced about him.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 9mo ago
  "I've learned from experience that people who aggressively denounce others publicly sometimes have stuff going on that isn't readily visible." Wolverton seems to be publicly denouncing Jobs and Powell Jobs aggressively Powell Jobs and Jobs' sister are not publicly denouncing Brennan-Jobs aggressively They said they have different memories By Wolverton's account, Brennan-Jobs is not publicly denouncing Jobs aggressively Wolverton writes that she recalls memories of Jobs not to "condemn him" but to "make peace" with Jobs and Powell Jobs Did Jobs ever publicly denounce anyone aggressively Did he have "stuff going on that isn't readily visible" Who knows What we don't know is no reason to doubt what is "readily visible", absent any evidence presented to the contrary For example, https://people.com/parents/all-about-steve-jobs-kids/ https://people.com/parents/all-about-steve-jobs-kids/ "But people should be cautious trusting a report of one person's disputed report." Jobs admitted to lying about being "sterile and infertile" to avoid paying child support Such dishonesty would make some people hesitate to trust any prior "reports" from Jobs They might think, "If he was willing to lie about that, then what else was he willing to lie about" That sort of caution seems justified The evidence, i.e., dishonesty, is readily visible, it cannot be ignored Powell Jobs and the sister might have a personal interest in questioning the accuracy of Bernnan-Jobs' memoir Especially if the book describes what might be interpreted as abuse
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]

66 points by rendx 9mo ago

rootusrootus 9mo ago

When someone is long dead, what is the point in one-sided accusations about their character?

baal80spam 9mo ago
Some people just want to see the world burn, destroy culture etc.
- Supermancho 9mo ago
  Some culture touchpoints are based on misinformation. It's usually moral to point out historic inaccuracies and to portray humans as they are.
- clipsy 9mo ago
  > destroy culture If the truth destroys your culture, it says more about your culture than it does about the people destroying it.
johnnyanmac 9mo ago
depends on their legacy. If a a policy maker died but still has bills and laws in flight, it's an easy way to kill those. As well as any proteges that were running for office.
amelius 9mo ago
Except it compensates for the one sided praising of the guy.
- wilg 9mo ago
  I would not say Steve Jobs received only praise during his life or after his death.
  - KaiserPro 9mo ago
    > not say Steve Jobs received only praise Jobs was idolised during his later life. (reality distortion field a-la the register) lots of founders and CEOs adopted his mannerisms, and cosplayed his stories, because they thought that was what made him _good_ Obviously there were dissenters, either people who were personally shat on by him, or didn't buy the "Jobs is better than jesus" stuff. But, they made a fucking movie about him, thats how much he was idolised.
- rootusrootus 9mo ago
  Really? I have heard plenty of "Jobs was an asshole" comments, every time his name comes up. The most consistent assessment seems to be "he was talented, lucky, and a real asshole to work for."
wolvoleo 9mo ago
To make sure history doesn't only remember the good things like their accomplishments. He was often really mean in person, that's pretty clear from his biography (and I also heard from some people who met him). Seeing him remembered as a tech saint is weird then. I'm glad I never worked for Apple while he was there. Though I have unfortunately worked for someone with very similar traits. Even though he is dead and can no longer improve himself, people will use him as a role model and idolize all the bad stuff too.
- jjtheblunt 9mo ago
  I did work for Apple while he was there, and he was entirely decent. I came to believe that there was a bratty entitled personality from his 20s that gave rise to most the jerk stories people reference, and that he wised up after being ousted (probably for being that jerk). He was essentially exiled for the better part of a decade.
  - onlypassingthru 9mo ago
    The jerk was there from the beginning. A friend's mom was temp-hired by two young guys, both named Steve, to help them set up their first company office. She liked one of the Steves but declined the offer to join their new company as the first office manager because the other Steve was an a-hole.
    - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
      that fits the early Steve vs post firing learned humility of Steve that was there after NeXT merged [ edit : typo ]
  - IAmBroom 9mo ago
    You worked for a multi-thousand-employee company, and therefore can certify the moral fiber behind closed doors of the CEO?
    - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
subjectsigma 9mo ago
The article made a lot of sense in 2018. If I was Lisa I would want my story to be heard. And so in turn I empathize and want to hear her story. I’m not sure why it is being reposted in 2026, though.
austin-cheney 9mo ago
My go to example for this is Saint Cyril. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria He is a canonized saint of Catholicism and revered as a virtuous defender of Christianity. More evidence based history instead indicates he was a narcissist primarily motivated to elevate himself politically in Alexandria which included wide spread murder and the destruction of the greatest intellectual institution the world had ever seen.
anthonypasq 9mo ago
if Steve Jobs wasnt famous would you have anything negative to say about a person writing a memoir describing their cruel dad?
rendx 9mo ago
For me, it is important to know and reflect on these stories so we can collectively heal and learn from them, regarding child abuse, narcissism, and especially (what is also mentioned in the article) enabling such abuse. This is why I posted it. If we bury these stories, and always only talk about it when people are long dead or not at all, we as communities will not evolve out of those patterns. A culture that "honors the dead" by not talking about the bad stuff they've done is catering to its abusers. Today, we should talk about Trump, Musk, etc, also in the light of how they treat their children. And what we can and should do to protect those that cannot protect themselves. We all have responsibility - the ability to respond. If we look away from the stories, we will also look away when something happens near us. And it should encourage us to grow in how we treat other people (especially children) around us. Yes, this can bring up difficult feelings about our own acts, and our own childhood experiences. And it should.
IAmBroom 9mo ago
Jobs' daughter has made assertions about Jobs' behavior. You are literally questioning why we are bothering to try to learn historical facts.

caycep 9mo ago

it seems quaint to dunk on Jobs now...he seems like a saint in comparison, in light of Mao Zedong-style mass-murder-by-policy from the current crop of tech industry CEOs.

phaser 9mo ago
Do we have mass murdering CEOs now? What did I miss?
- wilg 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - utternerd 9mo ago
    That article cites nothing other than someone's model. There is no hard evidence in what you linked.
    - nemo 9mo ago
      While the quantification isn't inherently reliable, the reality of many dead at the hands at Elon Mush is a simple fact that's not up for dispute. The only question is how many he's killed so far. He cut off life saving meds to sick kids and food aid to the areas with food shortages, the deaths are known and reliably reported.
      - utternerd 9mo ago
        Then it should be easy to prove, instead of saying "it isn't up for dispute" or citing a person's model.
        nemo 9mo ago
        True, feel free to Google "deaths attributed to end of usaid", lots to read and learn about there. Have at it.

rib3ye 9mo ago

I can't wait to hear stories from Linus' kid's childhoods.

CuriouslyC 9mo ago
Totally different. Linus is a jerk for justice, Steve was just a narcissistic asshole.
- rootusrootus 9mo ago
  So you think now. A few years after Linus is dead maybe the real truth will come out, when he won't be around to defend his legacy.
  - razingeden 9mo ago
    I thought it was already pretty well established that Torvalds is a jerk? Or, at a minimum, somewhat petulant. But also a good example of someone’s accomplishments .. arguably being worth something even if that’s true. I made my whole existence off of Linus’s handiwork and owe him a debt of gratitude for it. I probably still get more in monthly residuals than 90% of the people who wrote anything I deployed. Who cares what I think of anyone personally? I’d hate to be so deranged about anyone that I can’t see any good in their accomplishments. I’m not exactly Miss Manners in the professional or personal realm either, don’t let me cast the first stone. Id even go as far as saying that Linus’s are way more important and that Steve’s destroyed society but that’s enough out of me. Even if that’s my opinion, I’m still saying that about a trillion dollar company and that’s still someone’s yardstick for success. Genius is genius, accomplishments are accomplishments … and god what a grey and insecure and screwed up IT world this would be if neither of those people ever existed and Microsoft ruled the world. Either we wouldn’t even have functional cash registers let alone any other technical pillars or infrastructure… or we’d all be in our rightful BSD utopia right about now.
    - CuriouslyC 9mo ago
      To emphasize the difference between Linus and Steve. Steve seemed to be 100% an asshole when he wasn't performing, whereas Linus is (afaik) mostly very opinionated and doesn't care about being diplomatic at all, but not fundamentally a bad human being.

kazinator 9mo ago

Unfortunately, maybe it was in part due to Steve's personality that nobody talked him out of following quack home remedies for curing cancer.

BLKNSLVR 9mo ago

There's no question in my mind that having kids gets in the way of single-minded vision that's required of the kind of career success that Jobs had. It's unfortunate, but the reality is that having kids and actually caring for them in a way that gives the best chance to turn them into good, undamaged human beings requires a massive amount of attention that would heavily distract from lofty career goals. If the drive for career success is strong enough, kids will be resented and treated as such. It sucks, and they probably shouldn't have had kids in the first place, but the biological imperative is incredibly difficult to overcome.

asadotzler 9mo ago
Excusing abusive parenting because he prioritize career over child rearing is pretty awful.
- BLKNSLVR 9mo ago
  I'm in no way attempting to do that. I live my life in the opposite manner, I have two great kids (that are my lifetime greatest achievement) and a "career" that pays the bills that I could totally take or leave (pending the ability to pay the bills).
dghlsakjg 9mo ago
Being absent for work is different than being cruel. As a counterpoint I would highlight Buffet, Branson, and others who have managed to fulfill their obligations to the next generation without failing to dominate their industries. There is no excuse for cruelty to children, doubly so when they are your own. Jobs was an asshole because he was an asshole, not because he was driven.
diegocg 9mo ago
Have you read the article? He didn't just ignore her. He combined periods where he ignored her with periods of caring only to hurt her in dark ways. > Once, she says, as Jobs groped his wife and pretended to be having sex with her, he demanded that Brennan-Jobs stay in the room, calling it a "family moment." He repeatedly withheld money from her, told her that she would get "nothing" from his wealth — and even refused to install heat in her bedroom. This isn't just a career driven person

getnormality 9mo ago

Interesting little detail buried near the end: > Powell Jobs and Jobs' sister have said in a statement that the book "differs dramatically from our memories of those times." I've learned from experience that people who aggressively denounce others publicly sometimes have stuff going on that isn't readily visible. It's not that I want Jobs to be free of moral stain. I have no investment in it. But people should be cautious trusting a report of one person's disputed report.

PostOnce 9mo ago
Differing from your memory and differing from reality aren't the same thing. Nor is it uncommon that "the stepmom doesn't like the estranged kids" Nor is it uncommon that a deadbeat dad is an asshole. Whether or not it's true, common sense and the available evidence certainly favor Lisa.
- red-iron-pine 9mo ago
  Jobs was a raging asshole and misanthropist famous for treating his coworkers and employees like shit -- luckally he was able to deliver, and everyone forgets that shitty behavior. it's not crazy to think he was like at that home, too.
  - Supermancho 9mo ago
    > treating his coworkers and employees like shit I worked with some of them and have one as a friend on FB (we're all dying off). I was too young to get in on early Apple for a firsthand account. S.Jobs was universally known as a rageaholic, among his other qualities. This is portrayed well enough in much of the infotainment media produced about him.
1vuio0pswjnm7 9mo ago
"I've learned from experience that people who aggressively denounce others publicly sometimes have stuff going on that isn't readily visible." Wolverton seems to be publicly denouncing Jobs and Powell Jobs aggressively Powell Jobs and Jobs' sister are not publicly denouncing Brennan-Jobs aggressively They said they have different memories By Wolverton's account, Brennan-Jobs is not publicly denouncing Jobs aggressively Wolverton writes that she recalls memories of Jobs not to "condemn him" but to "make peace" with Jobs and Powell Jobs Did Jobs ever publicly denounce anyone aggressively Did he have "stuff going on that isn't readily visible" Who knows What we don't know is no reason to doubt what is "readily visible", absent any evidence presented to the contrary For example, https://people.com/parents/all-about-steve-jobs-kids/ https://people.com/parents/all-about-steve-jobs-kids/ "But people should be cautious trusting a report of one person's disputed report." Jobs admitted to lying about being "sterile and infertile" to avoid paying child support Such dishonesty would make some people hesitate to trust any prior "reports" from Jobs They might think, "If he was willing to lie about that, then what else was he willing to lie about" That sort of caution seems justified The evidence, i.e., dishonesty, is readily visible, it cannot be ignored Powell Jobs and the sister might have a personal interest in questioning the accuracy of Bernnan-Jobs' memoir Especially if the book describes what might be interpreted as abuse

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]