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I didn't realize my LG TV was spying on me until I turned off Live Plus
- gnabgib 10mo agoRelated - it's a lot of the brands: Hisense, LG, Samsung, Sony, TCL Texas is suing all of the big TV makers for spying on what you watch (1258 points, 7 days ago, 641 points) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46294456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46294456
- WarOnPrivacy 10mo ago"This setting" is called Live Plus. it's a feature on LG smart TVs that uses ACR (automatic content recognition) to analyze what's displayed on your screen. LG then uses that data to offer "personalized services," including content recommendations and advertisements.
- KingFelix 10mo agoInteresting, ill go down a rabbit hole on this, ACR to detect commercials and activate mute? Or play some spa music, then back to main audio when commercials are over, that would be pretty cool use of ACR
- thescriptkiddie 10mo agohulu's live tv feature uses commercial detection to stop you from from fast-forwarding through commercials in recordings
- zzo38computer 10mo agoSCTE-35 might be a better way to get rid of the commercials (normally SCTE-35 is intended for adding commercials rather than removing them), but only if that data is available (in my experience, sometimes it is, but not always). It might be even more better to just avoid recording the commercials (therefore saving disk space, and saing network bandwidth if using internet for downloading them), or to automatically skip past commercials when playing back a recording (instead of replacing them with something else). If using HLS, then you might use the #EXT-X-CUE-OUT command to detect commercial breaks, and avoid downloading them (although there is sometimes problems with audio/video desynchronization when converting to DVD format, and I don't know if that is because the commercial breaks are not recorded or for some other reason).
- bsmth 10mo agoI have an LG at home and I seem to remember it being the top device that appears in my pihole client list by number of blocked requests.
- turtletontine 10mo agoHave you turned off this setting too? Just curious if you’ve tried messing with the settings, and whether they actually change the TV’s traffic patterns you see in the DNS sinkhole. Good experiment at the very least
- ProllyInfamous 10mo agoPro-tip: have your DHCP server auto-issue your PiHole's IP as the DNS address — this makes all IoT and phones use your PiHole (unless secure-DNS or hardcoded). There are methods to make your firewall accomplish something similar (pfsense?) but I don't know how and DHCP is easier, at least for my network users. My [now disabled] Honeywell thermostat had the most packet-sends (not data, just #packets). Wouldn't have caught it without my network defaulting to PiHole.
- ycombinatrix 10mo agoYou also need to block outgoing UDP traffic to port 53 in your router, in case the IoT devices fall back to a preconfigured resolver. And even that doesn't 100% work because they can use DNS over HTTPS. Best to just airgap the device.
- userbinator 10mo ago12 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6778397 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6778397
- amelius 10mo ago12 years? I guess the complaining on HN didn't help much.
- userbinator 10mo agoMost people have not been paying much attention, and while I do remember some reporting of this on other tech news sites at the time, it was (understandably) mainly ignored by the mainstream media.
- rationalist 10mo ago> ignored by the mainstream media They make money from advertising. I imagine their hundred million dollar contracts have things that they are not allowed to report on.
- Sohcahtoa82 10mo agoI don't expect the manufacturers to change. I do expect people to change though. How is it that it's been well known that smart TVs will show ads and spy on you for over 10 years, and yet people are still connecting their TVs to their WiFi rather than get a separate dedicated streaming device? I just don't get it. How are people still surprised to find their TV is spying and will show ads?
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- ssl-3 10mo agoMost people just don't care. It doesn't matter to them that their TV sends reports back to Mother.
- cluckindan 10mo ago”Valnet and our 346 technology partners ask you to consent…” Oh, the irony.
- charcircuit 10mo ago>While it's frustrating that a setting like this exists in the first place I think it's a good thing that consumers are given a choice on whether they want it or not.
- 7373737373 10mo agoIt's not a choice if it's an underhanded default opt-in without knowledge, understanding or explicit consent
- ramses0 10mo agoAnd it used to reset to "on" after random firmware updates.
- charcircuit 10mo agoWould you prefer there to be no setting os disable it?
- yjftsjthsd-h 10mo agoI would prefer that the setting not exist because the functionality doesn't exist.
- cosmic_cheese 10mo agoI thought it was relatively common knowledge within technical circles to never give smart TVs an internet connection, but I suppose not. Also, it's worth noting that TVs built on Android TV have a massive advantage here in that you can plug them into your laptop and remove the content recognition package using adb (Android Debug Bridge) just like you might with a phone or tablet. This might be possible with Samsung Tizen and LG webOS devices too, but both are going to require more esoteric tooling.
- ekropotin 10mo agoWhat’s the point in having smart TV without internet access?
- vel0city 10mo agoWell, there's little choice for TVs without smart features these days. Especially if you're wanting certain quality and other features.
- Alive-in-2025 10mo agoWhat you do is you should never do is connect your tv to the internet. You connect something you control and can turn off if you don't like it, like say a google youtube tv dongle, or apple tv. You can unplug them if you don't like them. If you connect your tv to wifi, it can spy on you all the time. It can upload info on what you watch even if you used an external google tv puck to watch tv. It can see what you type on the screen if say you use it for say a monitor. There are reports of people deleting networking info but the tvs occasionally connecting back even though they deleted wifi info. You have to get a new network name to block them. It's much much better to connect an external device, and if not that then use an ethernet cable to connect, because you can physically remove it. Because the vast majority of people use whatever their tv came with these days in terms of smart tv connections, they don't set privacy settings. There's every reason for the tv makers to keep spying on you. If you have an external device their is motivation for them to not make you angry - but it's true that they can spy on you.
- 10mo ago
- imiric 10mo ago> Fortunately, once you've toggled Live Plus off, you no longer have to worry about your TV screen constantly being read to see what you're watching and to give you targeted ads. Eh, I wouldn't be so quick to let my guard down. Even if you trust that that toggle actually turns the functionality completely off, there's no guarantee that it won't be enabled again in the next update. Just keep your TV offline, as it always should be, and use it as a dumb display for trusted devices.
- Tempest1981 10mo agoRe: keeping it off the network LG also has a setting for "Wi‑Fi Direct / Wi‑Fi Screen Share". Can the TV connect to LG servers via that route? (Even if LAN and regular Wi-Fi are not configured?)
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- kazinator 10mo agoHow do you know turning it off really turns off the spying? Maybe it just turns off the overt behaviors like recommendation based on the spying, while continuing to collect data. You really have to disconnect it from the network, or find out what "phone home" connections it is making and block some of them.
- kburman 10mo agoMy rule for modern TVs: 1. Never connect the TV panel itself to the internet. Keep it air-gapped. Treat it solely as a dumb monitor. 2. Use an Apple TV for the "smart" features. 3. Avoid Fire TV, Chromecast, or Roku. The logic is simple, Google (Chromecast) and Amazon (Fire TV) operate on the same business model as the TV manufacturers subsidized hardware in exchange for user data and ad inventory. Apple is the only mainstream option where the hardware cost covers the experience, rather than your viewing habits subsidizing the device. [Copied my comment from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46268844#46271740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46268844#46271740]
- pengaru 10mo agoIf these things include WiFi hw it's not so simple. You'd likely be surprised what proprietary WiFi-enabled consumer products do without your knowledge. Especially in a dense residential environment, there's nothing preventing a neighbor's WiFi AP giving internet access to everything it deems eligible within range. It may be a purely behind the scenes facility, on an otherwise ostensibly secured AP.
- mh- 10mo agoI see this claim posted a lot, and not a single person has ever provided evidence of it happening with any TV brand I've ever heard of.
- pengaru 10mo agoI don't have firsthand knowledge of TVs doing this, but other consumer devices with WiFi most definitely do this. If you don't control the software driving the TV, and the TV has WiFi hardware, I would assume it's at the very least in the cards. It's rationalized by the vendors as a service to the customer. The mobile app needs to be able to configure the device via the cloud, so increasing the ability for said device to reach cloud by whatever means necessary is a customer benefit.
- mh- 10mo ago
- themafia 10mo ago> To LG's credit, the TV automatically detected all of my devices -- my PC, PS5, Switch 2, and Fire TV Stick 4K Max -- and applied the best settings for each. So.. they can take the time to do this properly.. but won't bother to ask you privacy preferences out of the box. This should be illegal. If you collect data from customers then you need to be up front about that and the setting must be opt in. They clearly have the capability to do this. Their products need to be taken off the market if they can't act in a civilized manner.
- RevEng 10mo agoThey do ask. When you set it up it presents 5 agreements to accept, only 2 of which are required. ACR, voice recognition, and a few other questionable this are covered under those optional agreements. I simply didn't accept them and ask those features were disabled.
- londons_explore 10mo agoIronic that this article has quite so many intrusive ads (which, if clicked, all report which article I was on to the advertiser!)
- scosman 10mo agoJust keep the tv offline. Alternatively block it from the internet at the router, or connect to a LAN-only subnet. Keeps the benefits of local AirPlay, Chromecast, and HomeKit without being able to phone home.
- Ayanonymous 10mo agoIt’s not just smart TVs—pretty much every internet-connected device or service today seems to follow the same playbook: wrap a tracking mechanism inside a “convenient” or “personalized” feature. Whether it's TVs, phones, assistants, or even fridges, it’s becoming harder to tell what’s genuinely useful vs what’s just surveillance in disguise. The normalization of this design pattern feels more concerning than any single instance. Anyone else feel like this is just the default architecture of the modern consumer web now?
- nine_k 10mo agoTV manufacturers' interests are not perfectly aligned with users'. They may want to wow you with the picture, but definitely would like to monetize the heck out of the access to your viewing habits, and the internet connection you might mistakenly allow them to have. Same applies to basically anything connected to the internet. Can it collect data useful for advertising, or otherwise legally saleable? If so, deny it access to the internet if you value your privacy. Or, when possible, replace its firmware / software with a reputable open-source version. Follow the money. Can any money be made inconspicuously off you after a sale of the device? Are you happy with the way it would be done? Do some minimal research, and scratch your head.
- jumbledoor 10mo ago[dead]
- codeulike 10mo ago"I think my TV is spying on me." 1990s: "You should talk to a psychiatrist." 2013: "You should talk to my cousin Ernie, he's an IT whiz." (via @kennwhite on twitter, 2013, now deleted)
- robgibbons 10mo agoWhen I helped a friend set up his LG C2, we plugged it into Ethernet just long enough to update its firmware, then promptly disconnected it, never to even set up WiFi.
- 3eb7988a1663 10mo agoWhy even do that? I fear every time a device connects it is going to download a new batch of ads to share until it next connects, disable some existing feature, or install copilot/other useless feature that slows down the already anemic CPU. I am going to trust that whatever firmware shipped on the device is capable of display video and leave it at that. I already disable all of the post-processing effects I can find.
- neilv 10mo ago> If you've never heard of Live Plus before, it's a feature [...] Is it really?
- why-o-why 10mo ago>> When I first set up my LG TV, my main focus was ensuring the picture quality was perfect. First things I did when I got a new LG TV: * Turn off auto-smoothing * Turn off high dynamic range * Turn off audio processing First things I did when I got my Apple TV: * Turn off auto-smoothing * Turn off high dynamic range * Force everything to play at 1080p (delete all other resolutions) There is a sharp cultural line between people who can't stand UHD/4K/48fps and those who want everything to look like pre-HD cinema, and people who love all the post processing. I'm on the wrong side. Which side are you all on?
- rkomorn 10mo agoDefinitely not on the "everything looks like an 80s soap" side. It's weird that all this "new" tech feels so backwards to some of us.
- why-o-why 10mo agoThanks, if at least one other person agrees I can say I'm not going crazy around here.
- opello 10mo agoI too am on the "wrong" side. I just hope that the choice to be on that side continues.
- The_President 10mo agoI'm fine with ripped DVDs that were purchased 20 years ago, and anything higher resolution than that is a bonus. All displayed on quality panels at neutral/middle settings with those aformentioned effects likewise disabled. Audio preserved as original, hooked up to a killer theater with real component speakers. It's hard for me to tune in on an overly smoothed, saturated picture with fake surround sound plasticy soundbar audio.
- EE84M3i 10mo agoI didn't realize Apple TVs apply motion smoothing. How do you disable it?
- borlox 10mo agoClick the link. “Valnet and our 346 technology partners ask you to consent to the use of cookies to store/access and process personal data on your device. This can include the use of unique identifiers and information about your browsing patterns to create the best possible user experience on this website. The following description outlines how your data may be used by us, or by our partners.” Yeah, tell be ‘bout privacy
- The_President 10mo agoThese devices actively listen. First gen LG OLED - Went over to buddy's house with a new one. As an experiment I spoke spanish in front of the TV and the next ad to play on YouTube was in spanish language. We're talking two english speakers in a household environment that would have zero use of spanish outside of what I did. I visited a week later and he had reset the TV because he started getting spanish ads. On my way out the door that time, I randomly said something like "I can't hold it in anymore, I need diapers!" and my friend was like "dude don't do that." Sure enough, not a day later... It really just Depends.
- RickS 10mo agoPeople keep saying their TV does this. Can anyone recommend some Benn Jordan or Technology Connections style YT videos that conclusively replicate this?
- greazy 10mo agoI haven't seen an actual experiment that replicates anecdotal evidence but this discussion comes to mind https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42580659 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42580659 from memory, the logical explanation is that by connecting to the same wifi the new tracked profile is being used. For example, the grand parent could have been learning Spanish, their profile gets picked up. Another explanation is observation bias. Spanish ads were shown previously, but were ignored. Now you're on the lookout for them, so they're more noticeable.
- The_President 10mo agoNo telling how to actually test this but this anecdote is true, and there was absolutely no spanish involved in that household prior. Nobody in that household speaks that language, not even the cuss words.
- pests 10mo agoI've had random Spanish YouTube commercials too. Except no one ever speaks Spanish around my devices.
- jmward01 10mo agoI couldn't read the article because I have ad blocking on. We have a lot of bad patterns in the US economy. Tips instead of paying people a real wage (just eat in a country that doesn't do tips and tell me the US system is somehow better), for profit healthcare and also near the top 'ad' supported anything. These systems are cancers and totally not needed for a healthy economy and society.
- t1234s 10mo agoSceptre makes some decent dumb TVs with large screen sizes https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...
- nunez 10mo agoYour TV will siphon your viewing habits and other data the minute it goes online. Trying to fight it is way too much work unless you have a super configurable firewall, and even then you're playing whack a mole with ALLOW lists. Connecting my TVs to my home network; not even once.
- fud101 10mo agoThanks for sharing this, I had it on on mine. What does it mean? I use it every day as my PC monitor.
- ghjjgghh 10mo agoHe is relieved because he found a option that disables the feature. It baffles me how even programmers who code for a living can fall for this.
- RevEng 10mo agoYou can stop it much earlier than this. At setup time it gives you several policies to agree to. Only two of them are required; the rest are optional. The optional ones include Live Plus and several other systems for monitoring and advertising.
- dabinat 10mo agoMy TV is the only device on my network with the privilege of being permanently quarantined by my firewall. I gain zero spying or ads and lose no features I actually care about.
- vintermann 10mo ago> Fortunately, once you've toggled Live Plus off, you no longer have to worry about your TV screen constantly being read to see what you're watching and to give you targeted ads. Oh? What if it's one of those, "if you opt out, we quietly reenable it a month later" settings, like LinkedIn notifications? What if it can be reenabled remotely for "law enforcement"? Heck, what if they just ignore the setting and keep mining what you watch? They've already effectively admitted to having the bare minimum concern for user privacy, and we know how willing companies are to break laws to get training data these days.
- Msurrow 10mo ago> *If you don't want your LG TV quietly snooping on what you watch and using it to serve you ads, here's how to turn Live Plus off. If LG makes money from snooping on you, what makes you think the “off” button actually turns it off? People have no way of verifying this. To me this is the worst part of TVs (and cars, and fridges, and so on) are even allowed to have these features[1]: non-techinical customers have no understanding that “smart” hardware is capable of doing whatever it wants - and hide it from customers. You have no way of knowing what your “smart” thing is doing behind the scenes. [1]: any feature thats sending data back to company servers, meaning you loose control of your data. Features that are 100% on-device is not what I’m talking about.
- joshribakoff 10mo ago> Fortunately, once you've toggled Live Plus off, you no longer have to worry about your TV screen constantly being read Not true, one may still find themselves worrying, especially since the factory reset or software update could add more “features” that we don’t want. Fortunately, once you’ve sworn off buying an LG product, you no longer have to worry.
- TomMasz 10mo agoMy current dumb TV is working just fine, but I shudder to think what will happen when it needs replacing. I'm hoping for sufficient consumer backlash to convince manufacturers that simpler TVs are worth making again.
- mikrotikker 10mo agoYea.. my dad's reaction when I told him was "shut up conspiracy theorist" and he connected it anyway
- bignurgle 10mo agoa TV is a peripheral, you hook it up to the internet you deserve all the bad that comes with it
- j1elo 10mo agoA comment says: > This professed concern for privacy is silly. What the heck is wrong with companies learning about your preferences? Unless you are a sociopath, psychopath, pervert, subversive, or criminal, why would you care? We need a worldwide campaign telling people that in order to have this opinion, they must agree to a group of 12 reporters to be quietly standing and watching in their living room, taking notes about any porn movies the person likes to watch. Also if they are not "criminal or perverts", they should feel no issue with living in a glass walled house where everybody can see them sitting in the toilet. What is there to hide?
- scotty79 10mo agoYour monitor screenshoting everything that it displays is very sketchy. What if I use it as a computer monitor and view personal documents on it?
- unparagoned 10mo agoThat’s why many orgs ban you from using smart TV as monitors