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"O’Leary accused the travel agent industry of scamming and ripping off unsuspecting consumers by charging extra fees and markups on ticket prices." That is ...

• andy99 10mo ago
  > they tried to coax me into using my local currency instead of GBP and hid a £20 spread I’m finding this more and more. Uber does it, and even Walgreens does it when I’m in the US and tap my card it suggests that I pay in my home currency. This seems to be a new vector companies have found for ripping off their customers.
  • dcminter 10mo ago
    Point of sale terminals also do this when travelling - it wasn't especially surprising, just one straw too many. Of course foreign exchange offices have been doing this scam since forever ("no fees!")... --- Edit - note that with a bureau d'exchange my objection is not that they charge for the exchange; clearly that is the exact business that they are in. It's the "no fees" etc. marketing that hides from the less astute punters exactly how (and how much) they are paying for the service. I'd like to see that outlawed and direct costs of the exchange up front (e.g. "Exchange £100 for $121.5 at a cost of £10 compared to the base rate")
    • rantallion 10mo ago
      > direct costs of the exchange up front Isn't that fairly easy to estimate? If they're showing you a buy rate and a sell rate, you know the interbank rate is going to be pretty much halfway between the two. I don't think anyone's changing money and thinking the bureau isn't profiting.
      • dcminter 10mo ago
        I beg to differ. All their verbiage about not charging fees is absolutely intended to create that impression in less educated customers.
      • xp84 10mo ago
        Honestly, to me the problem seems more like people don’t know they don’t have to use those things. Just pulling money out of an ATM (and yes, declining the currency conversion scam there as well) is a much more efficient and cheap way to acquire the local currency. People use these desks because they think that’s just “what it costs.”
  • doikor 10mo ago
    This isn't anything new though. Been like that for the last 15 years at least. Always pay in the local currency (your bank/visa/mastercard will give you a better rate then the merchant)
    • onli 10mo ago
      It seems to be built into the credit card terminals. So it's a visa thing, not on the shop. I had that with very small shops in non-touristy areas of Mexico where it was absolutely clear to not be a scam attempts by the shops owner. They had no idea what the terminal asked.
      • embedding-shape 10mo ago
        I don't think parent is claiming that the shop owner is trying to scam someone. But these prompts have been around for at least 15 years, I'm also sure about that, this isn't new by any measure. And yeah, also came across shop owners who don't know what it is about, and then you have to chose. Makes sense that shop owners in non-touristy areas haven't seen them before, as you'll only see that when the card has a default currency that differs from the default currency of the terminal.
      • amiga386 10mo ago
        On the other hand, almost every merchant and waiter in Spain told me, when handing me the card terminal, to select "local currency" (decline the first swindle attempt) then "don't convert" (decline the second swindle attempt). There's obviously some required workflow where they must pass the terminal to the customer, but they are wise to the payment gateway's trick to extract additional value from the transaction. They don't want their customer bilked, or to take the reputational damage when the customer leaves an angry review. So if your Mexican merchants "don't know" what their terminal says? Either you were their first foreigner, or they're useful idiots, or they know.
        • davnicwil 10mo ago
          I just think they genuinely don't know. I was years into travelling before I learned about this 'trick'. For my part, I'd just always assumed the charge would be ultimately converted by my bank in any case. Seems obvious now I look back, but I honestly just didn't think about the trick. Just as an example that gives evidence for this, sometimes you'll go to the same place multiple times and the norm is they ask but occasionally someone won't. So it's not a policy. I presume the people who don't just don't know about it, don't want to bother me and aren't aware it will make a difference.
  • csomar 10mo ago
    Do they suggest that you pay in your home currency, or do they give you the choice to select on the ATM? Only once a cashier made a suggestion and it was to warn me of the spread and that generally it'd be better to do it in USD and let my bank do conversion.
    • maccard 10mo ago
      You get a prompt on the terminal. I’ve never had a cashier suggest anything to me, and I don’t really want their input. The correct answer is always pay in local currency and let your bank handle it.
      • rjsw 10mo ago
        I once came across a cashier that thought you had to select the foreign currency option. When I tried to pay in the local currency she cancelled the transaction. Needed to get another member of staff to explain to her that the local currency option would work fine.
  • dwood_dev 10mo ago
    ATMs all over are like this. Very annoying. I have to decline conversation all the time. The ATM conversation rate is usually 15-25% markup. No thanks, my bank charges nothing, just passes on the Visa 1% fee for fx.
    • 0_____0 10mo ago
      *conversion Although it is amusing to imagine an ATM that accosts you verbally with smalltalk when you use it.
      • IG_Semmelweiss 10mo ago
        Coming soon , LLM to an ATM near you
        • xp84 10mo ago
          Great question. Let’s take a deep dive on money. Getting $100 at the right time can be a game-changer! It’s not only a store of value — it’s a means of exchange!
      • MrMorden 10mo ago
        Surely if the ATM were to taunt you it would use C, or maybe JavaScript.
  • rob74 10mo ago
    When O'Leary accuses others of "scamming and ripping off unsuspecting consumers", what he really means is that only Ryanair should have the right to scam and rip off Ryanair passengers...
  • bgbntty2 10mo ago
    Years ago when paying with PayPal, there were 2 choices - for them to convert currencies or to rely on my bank to convert them. There was a warning that if I chose the second option, it could cost a lot. Turns out, with my bank the conversion was good and with PayPal's conversion I'd lose like 10%. Stuff like that is what I say "years ago" - I haven't used PayPal for a while now, and I won't use it again.
    • Jap2-0 10mo ago
      This disappeared a few months ago for me, unfortunately.
      • xp84 10mo ago
        Why do you say unfortunately? Are you saying PayPal now doesn’t allow you to pay directly in the foreign currency and let your bank convert?
        • Jap2-0 10mo ago
          Correct.
  • BunsanSpace 10mo ago
    The big scam is some terminals are configured with 17% forex fees (looking at your shady restaurants in Budapest), really funny when it's paired with tips in an EU country. But this is why Revolut and WISE cards are a god send when travelling, just load them up with the local currency and these issues disappear.
    • robrenaud 10mo ago
      Paying the local currency with your own cards seems simple and works?
      • albumen 10mo ago
        If “your own cards” are with non-neobanks, they tend to offer poor exchange rates, and add commission on top.
      • starfallg 10mo ago
        Yes, zero Forex fees cards work. But the terminal detects that your home currency is different to the local currency and you still have to choose the right option. For example, just the other day I fat fingered the screen and chose the wrong currency.
    • kiwijamo 10mo ago
      Wise cards are still issued in your home country however. My NZ-issued Wise card still triggers the DCC prompt so it's more or less the same as a NZ-issued card from any other provider. A common misconception but understandable given how Wise markets their card products.
  • RankingMember 10mo ago
    What really pisses me off is that this stuff is annoying and sometimes fools us, tech savvy people on a hacker forum. I can't imagine how many elderly/non-techie people are being fleeced out of their money because of these kind of dark patterns.
    • raverbashing 10mo ago
      Yup I can never remember which option should I pick. And to be really honest I don't remember if I tried to see if it matched my bank's rate or not
      • SoftTalker 10mo ago
        Whenever I travel out of the country I always re-read my credit card policies on foreign currency conversion. Some cards are quite reasonable, some are ripoffs.
    • xp84 10mo ago
      Yup. Reminds me of how my dad would do his taxes at H&R Block, and then every year take out their “refund anticipation loan” (despite not having some big urgent expense). They deduct their overpriced tax prep fee and a healthy 150%APR interest payment from the proceeds but you get the money same day. You could just not do that and still have your refund in like a week. The APR is unconscionable given they did the taxes — they can be nearly certain your refund will arrive. But they just gloss over those details, probably by saying “Do you want your refund today, or wait on the IRS? With the Today option you can also just deduct your tax prep fee from the refund and not pay out of pocket.” I have a feeling they get a LOT of people with that scam.
    • andrepd 10mo ago
      In 2025 it's decidedly old-fashioned to even think of interfering with the march of the orphan-crushing profit-maximising machine. Each quarter demands a fresh way to rip off people. How quaint even the 90s seem today, and we though that was hyper capitalism!
      • 10mo ago
  • jeffwass 10mo ago
    I see the opposite quote a lot. Advertised “No Fee” currency conversions, but a HUGE spread built into the conversion rate that comes out to a massive fee.
  • free652 10mo ago
    This is pretty much everytime in Europe, not sure if the local terminals or the chase chip card always prompts me to pay with 1) USD 2) EURO
    • tyre 10mo ago
      ATMs do this as well. Always decline the bank doing the conversion.
    • Scoundreller 10mo ago
      Depends where in Europe. I saw it all the time in Spain but never in France.
  • xp84 10mo ago
    The funny thing is that, at least for American consumers, there’s a good chance you’ll get mildly scammed by using your card in a foreign currency due to a 3%—4% junk fee that is common (I’d estimate 80% of non-premium cards have it). So the discovery of the “let us, the merchant, convert for you” scam has allowed merchants/payment networks to in some cases “steal” the scam from the card issuer (the card issuer then won’t take a fee if it’s in USD, but someone takes a fat margin on the currency). They’re all scumbags, all looking for ways to grift.
  • Izikiel43 10mo ago
    It’s been like that when visiting Europe for years now.
  • fennecbutt 10mo ago
    I mean American companies have done the "$1000, well that's also £1000 then!" bullshit for ages.
• exasperaited 10mo ago
  Right. O'Leary is an antihero at best and a villain at worst.
  • dcminter 10mo ago
    He's very good at marketing his airline (often with outrage inspiring press releases) and very good at finding ways to squeeze more blood out of the stone of budget travellers. I don't really care whether he's "good" or "bad" but I would like to see the regulators shut down more of these aggressive tactics as they emerge.
    • amelius 10mo ago
      I just wish the airlines were forced to put their booking behind an API so we could book flights without having to go through mazes that are different for every airline.
      • hdgvhicv 10mo ago
        Talk to your travel agent. They will book you on sabre and bobs your uncle.
    • baq 10mo ago
      Bezos invented 'your margin is my opportunity' (at least that's where I heard it first), but O'Leary has that phrase in his blood instead of hemoglobin.
• maccard 10mo ago
  I’m not defending this behaviour with Ryanair, but this is not unique to them at all. It’s an industry “standard”. I’m Irish but live in the UK - when we make card transactions it asks what currency we want to pay in, and hides the exchange rate spread. > I will only use them if I have literally no other choice Even with the £20 increase they were likely cheaper than the alternative, if it exists. If this is going to push you into not using them, basically every other airline will be ruled out for you. EasyJet are exactly the same. BA/KLM/Air France/Aer Lingus are all the same on their short hop flights (I’ve actually never flown Lufthansa so I can’t comment on them). The short haul European routes are a race to the bottom.
  • dcminter 10mo ago
    To be clear, the currency scam was a last straw, not the major dark pattern. When you compare list prices for flights with them versus almost any other airline you are comparing apples with oranges. The only way to figure out exactly what you'll pay is to go through the entirety of their checkout procedure. My experiences with those other airlines for short haul flights are quite different.
    • 542354234235 10mo ago
      I also hate that it continues through the whole flight. I don't want to find out I have to pay to have my boarding pass printed, or that I need to pay for a glass of water on the plane. The other carrier might be more, but the things that come in the bundled fare make the trip easier with less friction points.
  • hardlianotion 10mo ago
    > Even with the £20 increase they were likely cheaper than the alternative, if it exists. Honestly, on many routes, I think this is true far less often than it used to be.
• quokwok 10mo ago
  It's easy to book a Ryanair ticket without being upsold. You select the ticket, probably add a bag for about £40, skip the car rental and hotels screens etc, then book. What's the problem?
  • amiga386 10mo ago
    So you're using Ryanair's own-issued payment card, to avoid the mandatory fees it charges for every other payment option? You forgot to mention picking the "No I don't need travel insurance" option shoved in the middle of the list of travel insurance prices, which defaults to you buying travel insurance from Ryanair. Do you already have their spyware app installed and tracking you on your phone, to avoid being charged £50 for a plain boarding pass which you print yourself? You're describing some other airline's website, surely. If you'd used Ryanair's site you would not be unaware of its fuckery.
    • quokwok 10mo ago
      You're a few years out of date. You don't get charged extra for using any credit card. And clicking "I don't need insurance" is easy.
      • amiga386 10mo ago
        It was there the last time I used Ryanair (which is one time too often IHMO) They didn't choose to remove those fees - they were legally compelled to: https://www.dw.com/en/german-court-forbids-ryanair-from-charging-credit-card-fee/a-5597670 https://www.dw.com/en/german-court-forbids-ryanair-from-char... Dark patterns are still sketchy and unconscionable, regardless of how easy you find them to get past. They're put there by unscrupulous businesses to catch some people -- can you say no Ryanair customer has ever accidentally purchased Ryanair insurance they didn't need? Similarly, their latest wheeze, that you skipped over, is to compel people to use their "app". The trading standards regulators need to smack Ryanair about the head with a cricket bat and again force them not to apply such bollocks. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-ban-printed-boarding-pass-smartphone-app-b2863003.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair... > Indeed, when I checked in for my 12 November flight to Germany a day ahead, I was told: “Make sure to print and bring your boarding passes to the airport or access them through the Ryanair app” and even “boarding passes must be printed for use”. > But Ryanair says those are no longer acceptable. Oddly, though, you can use a paper boarding pass that is printed out at the airport by ground staff working for Ryanair – at no charge. Such utter bollocks. They are totally capable of accepting paper boarding passes (or screenshots or PDFs of boarding passes shown on a phone -- better airlines let you download a PDF from their website once checked in, and you can put it on your phone or print it out; no proprietary app needed), they just want to compel you to install their app and get tracked and dinged and marketed at and upsold up the wazoo with zero benefit to you. It is not necessary at all, and I will continue to never travel with them.
• lkramer 10mo ago
  The one I found most devious was the ATMs in Stansted that offers to pay out Euro. I was going to Spain and knew I would need some cash on arrival, so I thought I could save a bit of time. They had cleverly swapped the exchange rate so in big letters they showed a reasonable figure, like 0.85 and then in smaller type in the corner showed that actually it was in favour of Euros, so you would pay over 350 pounds for 300 euros. I luckily realised in time, but I expect a lot of people don't. Also it's drilled in from the bad old days that you need to take out cash before going on holiday to avoid being scammed. A whole exploitive service industry seems to exist solely on that misconception. The only place in I've had any troubles paying with card (or easily find a cashmachine) in recent time have been Turkey outside the big cities.
• throw9023093209 10mo ago
  Ryanair was fastest airline when refunding tickets at start of pandemic. Lufthansa just ghosted me. OTAs were blocked because they just run scam, and Ryanair customer supports had many problems with dealing with them. Some example from Kiwi: - if flight gets cancelled and refunded, OTA pockets the refund, does not give anything to custemer - OTA does not provide customer with email used to make booking. Makes any changes like extra luggage or seat difficult - If flight gets rescheduled, OTA may not inform customer - Not possible to add extra child etc... I would only use OTA like Kiwi when booking flight in very exotic country, and I have no idea how to checkin in chinese.
  • GordonS 10mo ago
    Wow, not my experience of Ryanair at all! I was only able to get a refund by calling my bank and opening a section 75 dispute.
• BloondAndDoom 10mo ago
  I still don’t know why all these dark patterns are simply not illegal. What happened to consumer rights? It be a such a widespread practice, I think we will look back at this at one point and will say things akin “how did we let people smoke in planes”. One of those things utterly ridiculous in hindsight
  • handoflixue 10mo ago
    I mean, it does seem relevant that this thread is for an article about them being fined a quarter-billion Euros, so they very much did break the law and the law very much does have teeth.
• arethuza 10mo ago
  Ryanair used to do some things that were quite remarkably devious - the option to not by travel insurance was in the middle of drop-down list of countries! To make sure I had remembered that correctly I looked it up and here is a description of it: https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/ryanair-to-change-hidden-travel-insurance-opt-out/1409694.article https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/ryanair-to-change-hidden-tr... NB I've travelled with Ryanair quite a lot and actually don't mind the actual flights but it is wise to manage expectations about the kind of company you are actually dealing with.
  • gs17 10mo ago
    > However he disagreed that the ‘don’t insure me’ option was hidden, and said that 98% of Ryanair’s passengers could “find a way to decline insurance”. I'm not surprised, but still a bit impressed by the ability to lie like this. Somehow I doubt even 9% of their passengers would know it was between Denmark and Finland.
    • tehjoker 10mo ago
      Even in that quote 2% of people are possibly scammed out of their money, which is probably tens or hundreds of thousands of people.
      • tgsovlerkhgsel 10mo ago
        An unknown percentage of people actually want the insurance. If only 2% bought it despite such an extreme dark pattern, the 98-percentile of customers is much better than I would have expected.
        • tehjoker 10mo ago
          It's true you don't know who wants it, but I thought capitalism was supposed to work by mutual consent and transparency of contract. If even one person is deceived, that's a scam! I doubt out of tens or hundreds of thousands of people all of them figured this out and wanted the insurance.
• wouldbecouldbe 10mo ago
  Ryanair does lots of shitty things, but I dont see why an airline should be forced to resell to shitty agencies taking a an unecessary cut instead of consumers buying directly with the Airline.
  • patall 10mo ago
    I actually wonder how much traffic they lose this way. My employer doesn't allow me to book with them because the agent doesn't list them. Even though I want to go to Cambridge, quite annoying.
    • carlosjobim 10mo ago
      If your job is paying, why do you complain?
      • sokoloff 10mo ago
        I try to spend the company’s money with as much care as I spend my own.
      • patall 10mo ago
        Late reply: because noone else flys to Stansted directly at that time. And via Heathrow is another 2h extra.
• anovikov 10mo ago
  In fact i find Ryanair booking page the most smooth in user experience out of all major airlines. I am mostly tied to Aegean because i have a top loyalty level, and it is incredibly frustrating to go through extremely slow loading pages, page after page, to do every trivial task, and having to enter SMS OTP on every step. With Ryanair is't one and done, i barely remember it. And every action is blazing fast, pages load in a blink, no spinners.
• Oras 10mo ago
  Scamming is, sadly, a common practice now for many services. I think the first time I saw it was on Expedia, before the pandemic, when prices started going up at each step.
• nico 10mo ago
  > coax me into using my local currency instead of GBP and hid a £20 spread in the exchange rate BoFA does this for international wires as well. And I suspect a lot of companies do this to their international customers too. Unfortunately, it’s become pretty standard