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I actually think that people should rather use EcmaScript name instead of JavaScript, because it's a way better name (much less confusing, given that this lang
by siwatanejo 10mo ago
I actually think that people should rather use EcmaScript name instead of JavaScript, because it's a way better name (much less confusing, given that this lang doesn't have anything to do with Java anyway). I wish Oracle started suing people to force everyone to use the better name.
- phplovesong 10mo agoThat boat sailed soooo many years ago tho. Oracle has no business claiming javascript as a trademark.
- cies 10mo agoOracle is in the business of bullying others using their big legal dept. We all know this. > Oracle has no business claiming javascript as a trademark. You think so. That's okay. But ultimately it is up to a judge to decide. Right? I agree with the EcmaScript. Just ditch the stupid name. Get all the petition signers to agree an move on. Fuck Oracle. Fuck JavaScript (it's nothing like Java anyway).
- mcny 10mo ago> But ultimately it is up to a judge to decide. Right? I think we are getting a rude awakening about what is legal versus what is actually right are not always the same thing. There are some the horrible, horrible things here and the laws need updating, as opposed to us simply saying this is for a judge to decide and there is nothing else we can do. I am ok with ditching the JavaScript name. I understand this cuts the problem entirely. However, there are other problems we have that we can't bypass so easily. We need copyright terms to be much reduced. We need CFAA fully repealed and not replaced by anything. We need to abolish software patents. There is a lot we need to do that will likely take a century to accomplish and that's likely being too optimistic. What we can't do is leave everything up to the judges because clearly even if we get a favorable ruling today, the precedent can be removed by another stroke of a pen.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago> I think we are getting a rude awakening about what is legal versus what is actually right are not always the same thing. I'm not sure who "we" are here (Americans perhaps?), but humanity as a whole have known this for a long time, and acted accordingly. This is why presidents in some countries have the right to pardon people, as just one very evident example. That the USA exists as a country today is another example, which at the time when they were trying to create it, was clearly illegal, but since winners write history, still a "good" action. The the laws aren't 100% unambiguous and strict is also another example, so there is room for interpretation, as something can be "by the book legal" but because of the clear evil motivations and "ignoring the spirit of the law", still be illegal. Of course, highly dependent on the country and lots of counter-examples.
- cies 10mo agoCompletely agree. But that's more of a general matter than this specific matter. Judges is the best we have. US has juries, not sure if that makes it better. More importantly we need to criminalize lobbying in order to get control back over "our democracies" (what ever that still means today).
- eastbound 10mo agoOr let Oracle trial everyone for the number of processors they have on their JavaScript machines.
- andix 10mo agoWhat we use nowadays is actually ECMAScript and not JavaScript. We just call it JavaScript.
- muvlon 10mo agoIf enough people call it JavaScript, it is JavaScript. Yes really. Even in a legal sense (and deno are arguing this is already the case).
- stuartjohnson12 10mo agoApart from anything else, ECMAScript is a mouthful! Eeh-cee-emm-ay-script. Five syllables.
- tietjens 10mo agoDon't most people just pronounce it Eck-ma?
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- mbirth 10mo agoSince the association renamed itself to “Ecma International” in 1994, I believe we can just call it Eck-mah-script.
- mattkevan 10mo agoIt's a genuinely terrible name. Maybe it should just be pronounced eck-ma-script so it's got the same number of syllables as ja-va-script.
- hn_throw2025 10mo agoAnd it sounds like a skin condition.
- biofox 10mo agoFlaky when under pressure? Irritating results? Sites look and feel better without it? Sounds appropriate to me.
- rs186 10mo agoWho are "people"? How would all of this start? In terms of standard, the specs already use "ECMAScript" and don't even mention JavaScript (https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/ https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/), although TC39 website does use it frequently. I guess they could officially recommend people stop using "JavaScript", but I doubt they care. Otherwise, the petitioner Deno here is only a small part of the ecosystem and barely controls anything (and really nobody other than TC39 controls anything, which is good). They (or anyone else) can't just shout "stop saying JavaScript!" and expect people to follow. Not to mention JavaScript is a simple, easy to pronounce word compared to ECMAScript despite the baggage, which is probably why they chose it in the first place. Let's say the "JavaScript" name is officially deprecated somehow. People will continue to use the name for as long as it exists. So Deno's petition tackles these problems, addresses the root cause and appears to be legally viable. That is the "right thing to do" here. Avoiding the name does not solve the problem. It never does.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago> because it's a way better name (much less confusing, given that this lang doesn't have anything to do with Java anyway). Probably if we were in the early 2000s this could have been a battle worth fighting. But considering we're in 2025 and probably more people are aware of JavaScript than Java at this point, even when you're deep in enterprise-land, I'm not sure it'd be less confusing. Anyways, you're about two decades too late to this discussion :/
- heretia 10mo ago> probably more people are aware of JavaScript than Java at this point All the same, I probably get as many calls from recruiters to fill Java positions as I do JS positions. I've never used the former, and explaining it is always awkward!
- master-lincoln 10mo agoI would tell them they are wasting your time by not offering you fitting jobs. It's on them to know what they are looking for, not on you
- GoblinSlayer 10mo agoFor normal people Java is a short way to say JavaScript.
- spider-mario 10mo agoI have never heard anyone do that. Do “normal” people even discuss JavaScript?
- array_key_first 10mo agoI think normal people are actually aware what JS and HTML are. Most people are more tech savvy than we give them credit - or credit they might give themselves.
- pansa2 10mo ago> people should rather use EcmaScript name instead of JavaScript Or go back to calling it “LiveScript”
- DrScientist 10mo agoI'm not changing all the extensions on my files :-) Just go with the flow - call it js.
- nacozarina 10mo agoOur trade has a solid tradition of terrible names for programming languages. They are ALL bad. The whole Ekmuhscrip.js schism fits perfectly. Yes, this is our circus, and these are our monkeys.
- Towaway69 10mo agoBut some of us get to be pretty looking penguins in this circus of ours.
- Octoth0rpe 10mo ago> Yes, this is our circus, and these are our monkeys. In this case, it's Oracle's circus and we are the monkeys.
- falcor84 10mo agoBut everyone already calls it JS. I think the transition would have been so much easier if the official name started with "J".
- dkersten 10mo agoJust rename it to "JS" (jay-ess) and forget about having the letters stand for anything.
- 1bpp 10mo agoWould be nice if Microsoft hadn't taken JScript
- WorldMaker 10mo agoMicrosoft themselves have even suggested the community could take over the name JScript if they want and offered the trademark to community groups.
- leptons 10mo agoOr how about just "J", like "C", and "B" before it.
- dkersten 10mo agoAlready taken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language)
- petre 10mo agoLike JunoScript or JangoScript? JavaScript is just very outdated ECMAScript.
- discomrobertul8 10mo agosoulJaboy Script
- suyash 10mo agoThe irony is I belive the JavaScript creator wtnted to latch to Java's popularity to called it JavaScript and now both Java and JavaScript are owned by Oracle and they want the name but not want to change is to ECMAScript, it's real official name.
- jemmyw 10mo agoWell the creator wanted to call it livescript. The creating company (Netscape) wanted the Java association.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago> and now both Java and JavaScript are owned by "Now" makes it sound like this is a recent acquisition of the JavaScript trademark. Oracle obtained it in 2009 as a result of the Sun purchase and if I remember correctly, Sun initially was issued the trademark back in the 90s sometimes.
- brabel 10mo agoYou should consider reading the article.
- embedding-shape 10mo agoYou should consider including whatever point you are trying to make in the comment itself, instead of just a swipe without any details.
- brabel 10mo ago> "Now" makes it sound like this is a recent acquisition of the JavaScript trademark. Oracle obtained it in 2009 as a result of the Sun purchase and if I remember correctly, Sun initially was issued the trademark back in the 90s sometimes. They explained that in detail in the article. You don't need to remember correctly, you need to read the article. People who comment like you without doing the bare minimum, i.e. read what they're commenting on, should stop and think, what do you think you're contributing by doing that??
- re-thc 10mo agoSwitch everything natively to Typescript.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- DrScientist 10mo agoLast phase of embrace, extend, extinguish eh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
- solumunus 10mo agoPlease. The name JavaScript makes me cringe. We now have something much better in name and functionality, let’s just kill JS.
- throwingrocks 10mo agoIt’s simply not a better name. If it was, it would’ve caught on by now.
- wouldbecouldbe 10mo agoEcmaScript just sounds icky.
- crazygringo 10mo agoI still cannot read it without immediately seeing a contraction of eczema.
- someguyiguess 10mo agoYes! I said this same thing in a separate comment! It sounds like Eczema Script
- wat10000 10mo agoIt’s unfortunate that it sounds like some sort of skin disease.
- petesergeant 10mo ago> I actually think that people should rather use EcmaScript name instead of JavaScript Take it to Twitter
- someguyiguess 10mo agoEcmaScript is an awful name. It sounds too similar to eczema or ectoplasm. Ugly name.
- spider-mario 10mo agoObligatory: https://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html https://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-... > 1995 - Brendan Eich reads up on every mistake ever made in designing a programming language, invents a few more, and creates LiveScript. Later, in an effort to cash in on the popularity of Java the language is renamed JavaScript. Later still, in an effort to cash in on the popularity of skin diseases the language is renamed ECMAScript.
- eurekin 10mo agoThought I was the only one seeing the resemblance (also flegma)
- code_for_monkey 10mo agothe fact that it sounds bad out loud is its undoing
- newsoftheday 10mo agoAgreed. WebScript would be better.
- mr_toad 10mo agoThat’s always been my favorite proposal. WebScript is short and to the point.
- kstrauser 10mo agoNailed it. My brain always hears it as eczema script, which is never a good association.
- godshatter 10mo agoI don't know, I kind of like the name EctoScript. Although if it were me I'd just rename it WebScript and be done with it.
- psychoslave 10mo agoThat’s not retrocompatible with all the .js files out there though. One possibility is thus just make some vocalic derivation, which align with well known spontaneous evolution of languages like ablaut[1]. Following that, and keeping the dance connotation, jive[2] is an option. Or closer on phonetic distance to java (/ˈd͡ʒɑː.və/), there is jovial (/ˈd͡ʒəʊ.vɪ.əl/ or /ˈd͡ʒoʊ.vɪ.əl/ or /ˈd͡ʒoʊ.vəl/)[3]. Might our jovial·script enjoy our life. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_ablaut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_ablaut [2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jive https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jive [3] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jovial https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jovial
- roywiggins 10mo ago.js, short for jecmascript, easy
- GoblinSlayer 10mo agoJabbaScript
- nunobrito 10mo agoWould actually paint a very descriptive state about the ecosystem.
- psychoslave 10mo agoAlso jiva (/ˈd͡ʒiːvə/) is an option. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jiva https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jiva https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmO4zvq9HtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmO4zvq9HtE
- jrm4 10mo agoWhy not Jayscript? I see that there's something called that related to javascript already, but like -- very similar spelling, ".js" still works, we lose the Java confusion etc etc.
- 10mo ago
- giancarlostoro 10mo agoI am going to sound crazy, but, if Microsoft would free up TypeScript and every browser added native TypeScript features to JavaScript… and then we all just started calling it TypeScript. Maybe? Then you would see native ts files. Oracle will never give up JS. The funny thing is the number of people who confuse Java and JS.
- shevy-java 10mo agoFrom experience, corporations usually don't give the general public any trademarked name. I assume TypeScript is trademarked right now; and I doubt Microsoft would ever liberate this. So in this regard, the corporations act in the same manner - selfish.
- Someone1234 10mo agoIf browser makers offered to put it in the browser if the name is freed, I bet they could be convinced. The main problem right now, is that there isn't a major push to add TS to the browser.
- giancarlostoro 10mo agoThe way I'm proposing it, technically it would be to make JS and TS kind of the same thing, but not fully, as someone else mentioned the goal of TS is still to tell the user (developer) about issues before the code runs. However, if done right TS files still get interpreted like normal JS, and technically you would want to compile them and not put them in the browser "raw" but you could still call it TS.
- onionisafruit 10mo agoTFA says Microsoft offered the JScript trademark to be used in place of JavaScript, so there’s some indication of willingness to give up a trademark.
- georgeecollins 10mo agoIf you can find the clip on you tube where he says it, it's even funnier. But sadly also true. https://simonwillison.net https://simonwillison.net
- nextaccountic 10mo agoFilename extension is .js, mime type is text/javascript, millions of people call it javascript. I don't see this changing anytime soon Unrelated but, the JavaScript capitalization is so odd
- rdiddly 10mo agoEverything seemed to be Pascal case back then.
- nunobrito 10mo agoI'm from the java world and it is basically java. Sure that it can do a lot more, for the most part any java developer will fell at home with the exception of lacking a robust static typing and the IDEs aren't really as good to spot syntax errors. I mean no shade to javascript developers, you just get used to a very robust building environment over there.
- dtagames 10mo agoI think most of us just call it JS now. And we really write mostly TS anyway.
- xxs 10mo agothat would be very culturally/industry specific. Personally, I do call it javascript.
- freedomben 10mo agoYeah definitely cultural. IME it's called JS only in chat as a shortcut. IRL people say "javascript"
- halapro 10mo agoNo person calls it EcmaScript. They should just call it Jay Es and be done. "JavaScript" is an ugly name too.
- culi 10mo agoAh yes, "European Computer Manufacturers Association"-script
- elAhmo 10mo agoEcmaScript is a terrible name, there is no way people will call JS that. How do you even pronounce it? What does it mean? What is it?